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(Washington Post)   A judge says that prosecutors shouldn't suborn perjury and withhold evidence. Every prosecutor in the state asks him to recuse himself from criminal cases due to his obvious bias against them   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 60
    More: Scary, criminal laws, perjury, prosecutors, Kozinski, prosecutorial misconduct, exculpatory evidence, South Carolina Supreme Court, judicial district  
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2515 clicks; posted to Politics » on 09 Mar 2014 at 8:34 AM (32 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-09 08:41:14 AM  
We should still save the death penalty because surely we will all regret having to sentence some murderer to life in prison instead of the electric chair.
 
2014-03-09 08:45:42 AM  

super_grass: We should still save the death penalty because surely we will all regret having to sentence some murderer to life in prison instead of the electric chair.


Just so you know, reading the article before commenting makes some people's comments sound less stupid. I don't think this is a problem for you though.

I liked this part the best:

"She accused him of bias and sent a letter asking him to recuse himself from criminal cases that come out of her district. In one sense, Wilson is unquestionably correct. Beatty is biased. He's clearly biased against prosecutors who commit misconduct."
 
2014-03-09 08:56:54 AM  
This is why I want the death penalty for prosecutorial misconduct.

Prosecutors have a lot of power. If it can be shown they've abused this power maliciously in more than 70 years' worth of convictions, they should be consequences up to being hung by the neck until dead. Not only that, but part of becoming a prosecutor should be a psych eval where they make sure you're sane and understand what you are doing followed by signing your appeals away preemptively.

Right now they're in Vegas with a billion dollars' in comped chips made entirely of OPM. If they had some skin in the game, they might look at their cards a little closer.
 
2014-03-09 08:57:33 AM  
He wants us to play by the rules? NO FAIR.
 
2014-03-09 08:59:13 AM  

Epic Fap Session: super_grass: We should still save the death penalty because surely we will all regret having to sentence some murderer to life in prison instead of the electric chair.

Just so you know, reading the article before commenting makes some people's comments sound less stupid. I don't think this is a problem for you though.

I liked this part the best:

"She accused him of bias and sent a letter asking him to recuse himself from criminal cases that come out of her district. In one sense, Wilson is unquestionably correct. Beatty is biased. He's clearly biased against prosecutors who commit misconduct."


For articles like this it is better to bank on Fark's hatred towards shady prosecutors than some words by a journalist.
 
2014-03-09 09:06:24 AM  
Prosecutors ≠ stewards of justice

They are politicians, many with higher aspirations, and those aspirations rely on a record of convictions, not justice.
 
2014-03-09 09:08:41 AM  

rzrwiresunrise: Prosecutors ≠ stewards of justice

They are politicians, many with higher aspirations, and those aspirations rely on a record of convictions, not justice.


More to the point, the legal system is designed specifically to make sure that prosecutors are not stewards of justice. Its a feature, not a bug.
 
2014-03-09 09:08:47 AM  
I'm glad I didn't miss this week's Two Minutes of Hate towards prosecutors.
 
2014-03-09 09:14:56 AM  
Ah, Fark. Assume the headline is exaggerating for comedic effect, then RTFA and has a sad.
 
2014-03-09 09:16:44 AM  
Let's take a look at the numbers, shall we? Right now I'm getting about 80% convictions. That's not good enough. This is an election year, remember? I need to get my numbers up. So you officers need to bring me some cases I can win. And don't worry, we'll pick through the evidence and work up some testimony, we'll get a conviction. As long as you stick to the script, we'll drive the guy straight down Maximum Avenue.

Don't call it lying. Me prosecutor, you innocent, get it? If I think we don't have enough evidence to pursue a charge of perjury, you're off the hook. Maybe you get a nasty review letter from Internal Affairs, but those can get lost, know what I'm saying? The important thing is to stick to the script, so when you show up for the trial, for gawd's sake be sober. OK, OK, have a few to take the edge off, but no more.
 
2014-03-09 09:19:19 AM  

Lost Thought 00: rzrwiresunrise: Prosecutors ≠ stewards of justice

They are politicians, many with higher aspirations, and those aspirations rely on a record of convictions, not justice.

More to the point, the legal system is designed specifically to make sure that prosecutors are not stewards of justice. Its a feature, not a bug.


Pretty much.
 
NFA [TotalFark]
2014-03-09 09:19:26 AM  

Epic Fap Session: Just so you know, reading the article before commenting makes some people's comments sound less stupid. I don't think this is a problem for you though.

I liked this part the best:

"She accused him of bias and sent a letter asking him to recuse himself from criminal cases that come out of her district. In one sense, Wilson is unquestionably correct. Beatty is biased. He's clearly biased against prosecutors who commit misconduct."


I've come to realize that prosecutors are the single biggest problem in the American justice system.  They essentially control the entire law enforcement system in their jurisdiction.  If a prosecutor refuses to prosecute certain crimes, the police will stop arresting people for it.  If the prosecutor want an absolutely open and shut case in every instance before prosecuting a case, the police will not arrest many criminals.

We have prosecutors like Nancy Grace who brag about 100% conviction rates.  There is only one way to get a 100% conviction rate, that is to never allow a case to come to court unless it's a guaranteed win.  Meanwhile the criminals take over the streets.

I had a $460 check stolen from me and cashed by someone.  My brother in-law was a bank security VP and he used his power to get the person's name, the account they deposited the money into, their social security number and every other detail needed to make an arrest.
When I contacted the Prince George's county police, I was told that unless the check was valued at $2500 or more, they would not even fill out a report.  Basically, this legalizes theft under $2500.  I inquired as to why they did this and he explained that the courts would not try/convict anyone who "utters" a stolen check under that dollar amount.  This was not a law, it was simply the prosecutors reducing their workload.

We need to have a bunch of them arrested and prosecuted for crimes against the public interest.

WHO PROSECUTES THE PROSECUTORS???
 
2014-03-09 09:20:44 AM  

Milo Minderbinder: I'm glad I didn't miss this week's Two Minutes of Hate towards prosecutors.


Be sure to stay tuned for next week's episode of How Do You Like Your Public Pretender?
 
NFA [TotalFark]
2014-03-09 09:21:08 AM  

Lost Thought 00: More to the point, the legal system is designed specifically to make sure that prosecutors are not stewards of justice. Its a feature, not a bug.


Except that they are.  They control the entire justice system by refusing to prosecute cases, law enforcement will stop wasting their time making arrests of specific crimes.
 
2014-03-09 09:24:31 AM  

NFA: Lost Thought 00: More to the point, the legal system is designed specifically to make sure that prosecutors are not stewards of justice. Its a feature, not a bug.

Except that they are.  They control the entire justice system by refusing to prosecute cases, law enforcement will stop wasting their time making arrests of specific crimes.


There is a more nuanced approach than prosecute or do-not-prosecute, you know.

Additionally, the logical conclusion to your argument is to decriminalize certain acts, thus removing the opportunity to prosecute.
 
2014-03-09 09:25:42 AM  

Milo Minderbinder: I'm glad I didn't miss this week's Two Minutes of Hate towards prosecutors.


Exactly! Why won;t these stupid libs respect people who violate the law? It's for their own good!
 
2014-03-09 09:30:31 AM  
The problem doesn't exist just in CA and SC.
 
2014-03-09 09:35:11 AM  

NFA: Epic Fap Session: Just so you know, reading the article before commenting makes some people's comments sound less stupid. I don't think this is a problem for you though.

I liked this part the best:

"She accused him of bias and sent a letter asking him to recuse himself from criminal cases that come out of her district. In one sense, Wilson is unquestionably correct. Beatty is biased. He's clearly biased against prosecutors who commit misconduct."

I've come to realize that prosecutors are the single biggest problem in the American justice system.  They essentially control the entire law enforcement system in their jurisdiction.  If a prosecutor refuses to prosecute certain crimes, the police will stop arresting people for it.  If the prosecutor want an absolutely open and shut case in every instance before prosecuting a case, the police will not arrest many criminals.

We have prosecutors like Nancy Grace who brag about 100% conviction rates.  There is only one way to get a 100% conviction rate, that is to never allow a case to come to court unless it's a guaranteed win.  Meanwhile the criminals take over the streets.

I had a $460 check stolen from me and cashed by someone.  My brother in-law was a bank security VP and he used his power to get the person's name, the account they deposited the money into, their social security number and every other detail needed to make an arrest.
When I contacted the Prince George's county police, I was told that unless the check was valued at $2500 or more, they would not even fill out a report.  Basically, this legalizes theft under $2500.  I inquired as to why they did this and he explained that the courts would not try/convict anyone who "utters" a stolen check under that dollar amount.  This was not a law, it was simply the prosecutors reducing their workload.

We need to have a bunch of them arrested and prosecuted for crimes against the public interest.

WHO PROSECUTES THE PROSECUTORS???


Small claims court? I mean for you to recover your money, not for prosecuting the prosecutors.
 
2014-03-09 09:35:35 AM  

NFA: I've come to realize that prosecutors are the single biggest problem in the American justice system.


America does not... SHOULD NOT have a justice system. We have a legal system.
 
2014-03-09 09:37:52 AM  

Macinfarker: The problem doesn't exist just in CA and SC.


This is a good start.
There have been several cases recently of exonerations after the death penalty was given - oopsie!
 
2014-03-09 09:42:48 AM  

ghare: Milo Minderbinder: I'm glad I didn't miss this week's Two Minutes of Hate towards prosecutors.

Exactly! Why won;t these stupid libs respect people who violate the law? It's for their own good!


Yes. They are all relentless, fascist scheming politicians with unlimited resources and hearts of darkest evil that feast on babies and only persecute the innocent and pure of heart.
 
2014-03-09 09:45:59 AM  
It seems our resident small government advocating Fark Independents prefer crooked state prosecutors.
 
2014-03-09 09:50:28 AM  

Milo Minderbinder: ghare: Milo Minderbinder: I'm glad I didn't miss this week's Two Minutes of Hate towards prosecutors.

Exactly! Why won;t these stupid libs respect people who violate the law? It's for their own good!

Yes. They are all relentless, fascist scheming politicians with unlimited resources and hearts of darkest evil that feast on babies and only persecute the innocent and pure of heart.


Go back to selling parachutes.
 
2014-03-09 09:51:59 AM  
s29.postimg.org

"You know the score, pal. If you're not [prosecutor], you're little people."
 
2014-03-09 09:52:16 AM  

Tyrone Slothrop: Milo Minderbinder: ghare: Milo Minderbinder: I'm glad I didn't miss this week's Two Minutes of Hate towards prosecutors.

Exactly! Why won;t these stupid libs respect people who violate the law? It's for their own good!

Yes. They are all relentless, fascist scheming politicians with unlimited resources and hearts of darkest evil that feast on babies and only persecute the innocent and pure of heart.

Go back to selling parachutes.


I'm really more of an ejection seat guy myself.
 
2014-03-09 09:57:43 AM  

Milo Minderbinder: Yes. They are all relentless, fascist scheming politicians with unlimited resources and hearts of darkest evil that feast on babies and only persecute the innocent and pure of heart.


Your use of understatement here more potently conveys the reality of who prosecutors are than would any hyperbole. Excellent rhetorical approach.
 
2014-03-09 09:59:28 AM  
Perhaps the lawyers who would work criminal cases should be appointed a a panel of appointed judges. Both would be paid by the state and assignment to a prosecute or defend would be randomly selected. I am not a lawyer and I have no idea if this idea has any merit, but maybe it would allow a different focus while still insuring that the lawyers work hard for whichever side they represent. I also don't have any idea who would make the decisions to bring cases to trial or not with a 'system' like that.

/random thoughts and jmho so feel free to lambaste, ignore or respond ;)
 
2014-03-09 10:02:44 AM  
Kinda sad when your state's entire tourism strategy is attracting DOJ undercover operatives.
 
2014-03-09 10:03:59 AM  

Baz744: Milo Minderbinder: Yes. They are all relentless, fascist scheming politicians with unlimited resources and hearts of darkest evil that feast on babies and only persecute the innocent and pure of heart.

Your use of understatement here more potently conveys the reality of who prosecutors are than would any hyperbole. Excellent rhetorical approach.


Really? Because I was worried that I underplayed it. I was trying to convey Hitler's brain in a constipated T-Rex.
 
2014-03-09 10:08:35 AM  

LesterB: NFA: Epic Fap Session: Just so you know, reading the article before commenting makes some people's comments sound less stupid. I don't think this is a problem for you though.

I liked this part the best:

"She accused him of bias and sent a letter asking him to recuse himself from criminal cases that come out of her district. In one sense, Wilson is unquestionably correct. Beatty is biased. He's clearly biased against prosecutors who commit misconduct."

I've come to realize that prosecutors are the single biggest problem in the American justice system.  They essentially control the entire law enforcement system in their jurisdiction.  If a prosecutor refuses to prosecute certain crimes, the police will stop arresting people for it.  If the prosecutor want an absolutely open and shut case in every instance before prosecuting a case, the police will not arrest many criminals.

We have prosecutors like Nancy Grace who brag about 100% conviction rates.  There is only one way to get a 100% conviction rate, that is to never allow a case to come to court unless it's a guaranteed win.  Meanwhile the criminals take over the streets.

I had a $460 check stolen from me and cashed by someone.  My brother in-law was a bank security VP and he used his power to get the person's name, the account they deposited the money into, their social security number and every other detail needed to make an arrest.
When I contacted the Prince George's county police, I was told that unless the check was valued at $2500 or more, they would not even fill out a report.  Basically, this legalizes theft under $2500.  I inquired as to why they did this and he explained that the courts would not try/convict anyone who "utters" a stolen check under that dollar amount.  This was not a law, it was simply the prosecutors reducing their workload.

We need to have a bunch of them arrested and prosecuted for crimes against the public interest.

WHO PROSECUTES THE PROSECUTORS???

Small claims court? I mean for you to recover your money, not for prosecuting the prosecutors.


Well you live in Maryland, what do you expect?
 
2014-03-09 10:09:51 AM  

Lackofname: He wants us to play by the rules? NO FAIR.


That's not how the justice system works.
 
2014-03-09 10:17:25 AM  
Heaven forbid we let lawyers tell truths. Satan would walk the earth again.
 
2014-03-09 10:25:35 AM  
A few years ago I read an opinion by a criminal prosecutor. He said that he didn't believe in "post conviction evidence." What that means is that he thinks once someone has been convicted, no matter what the means, then that is that and any new evidence that may prove the defendant's innocence should be ignored.

That's the kind of prosecutor that would be against this judge. All that matters is that they get another conviction - another notch in the stick. They don't care about justice, or solving a crime, or criminal rehabilitation, or prison overcrowding, or anything else. They just care about convicting, and they'll withhold evidence or lie to make it happen, whether you're guilty or not.
 
2014-03-09 10:28:23 AM  
Pouting Prosecutors Publicly Persecuted

/film at 11
 
2014-03-09 10:34:31 AM  

mgshamster: A few years ago I read an opinion by a criminal prosecutor. He said that he didn't believe in "post conviction evidence." What that means is that he thinks once someone has been convicted, no matter what the means, then that is that and any new evidence that may prove the defendant's innocence should be ignored.

That's the kind of prosecutor that would be against this judge. All that matters is that they get another conviction - another notch in the stick. They don't care about justice, or solving a crime, or criminal rehabilitation, or prison overcrowding, or anything else. They just care about convicting, and they'll withhold evidence or lie to make it happen, whether you're guilty or not.


What the TFA doesn't mention is that occasionally prosecutors and police are fired, sued, and even go to jail if they withhold evidence.

This judge is completely within his rights to issue this statement if the track record is so bad in SC. Rather than succeeding in getting him recused, this DA should have to worry about her own job.
 
2014-03-09 10:48:59 AM  
Holy hell, i thought the 2nd half of the headline was a joke. WTF, America?
 
2014-03-09 10:52:59 AM  
I understand the adversarial system as opposed to a 'Grand Inquisitor'-type.

Still, using tax dollars while cheating and gaming the system, all to rack up an impressive conviction rate for the benefit of the DA's political future, is not any kind of a 'justice' system.
 
2014-03-09 10:56:59 AM  

ghare: Milo Minderbinder: I'm glad I didn't miss this week's Two Minutes of Hate towards prosecutors.

Exactly! Why won;t these stupid libs respect people who violate the law? It's for their own good!


That's unfair. I'm sure he has an excellent argument as to why there should be no consequences for prosecutors who suborn witnesses or withhold evidence. Let's give him a chance to present it.
 
2014-03-09 11:26:25 AM  

Smoking GNU: Holy hell, i thought the 2nd half of the headline was a joke. WTF, America?


American prosecutors, on the whole, are as evil a god damned bunch of people as you can assemble anywhere.
 
MFK
2014-03-09 11:34:46 AM  

super_grass: Epic Fap Session: super_grass: We should still save the death penalty because surely we will all regret having to sentence some murderer to life in prison instead of the electric chair.

Just so you know, reading the article before commenting makes some people's comments sound less stupid. I don't think this is a problem for you though.

I liked this part the best:

"She accused him of bias and sent a letter asking him to recuse himself from criminal cases that come out of her district. In one sense, Wilson is unquestionably correct. Beatty is biased. He's clearly biased against prosecutors who commit misconduct."

For articles like this it is better to bank on Fark's hatred towards shady prosecutors than some words by a journalist.


why in the everloving fark are you white-knighting for shady prosecutors?
 
2014-03-09 11:49:47 AM  

MFK: why in the everloving fark are you white-knighting for shady prosecutors?


Because he's a trolling sack?  He white nights for dictators and authoritarians all the time.
 
2014-03-09 12:16:54 PM  

rzrwiresunrise: Prosecutors ≠ stewards of justice

They are politicians, many with higher aspirations, and those aspirations rely on a record of convictions, not justice.



I've seen an example of this. In January I was on the jury for a misdemeanor case that went to trial, and conviction depended on whether we decided that a handgun sitting in the lap of the driver of a vehicle was considered "concealed" or not. It was plainly visible to the police officer who stood next to the window, but impossible to see for an observer a little farther away. When the assistant D.A. was summing up the case, he tried his best to appeal to racism -- "So he's driving his car with his tinted windows, listening to his music ...", using that weird sing-songy whiny delivery that AM radio talk show hosts like to use when they criticize people.

There was plenty of healthy debate about the meaning of "concealed" in the jury room before we decided to let the guy go, but not one of us took the guy's bait. After the case was over I did a lot of reading about this assistant DA and saw that he wants to be a judge, he's lost at least one election for a vacant seat, and the local teabaggers love him. My opinion after seeing how he conducts a case, he's the last person I'd want to see on the bench here in Milwaukee.
 
2014-03-09 12:29:34 PM  

phaseolus: rzrwiresunrise: Prosecutors ≠ stewards of justice

They are politicians, many with higher aspirations, and those aspirations rely on a record of convictions, not justice.


I've seen an example of this. In January I was on the jury for a misdemeanor case that went to trial, and conviction depended on whether we decided that a handgun sitting in the lap of the driver of a vehicle was considered "concealed" or not. It was plainly visible to the police officer who stood next to the window, but impossible to see for an observer a little farther away. When the assistant D.A. was summing up the case, he tried his best to appeal to racism -- "So he's driving his car with his tinted windows, listening to his music ...", using that weird sing-songy whiny delivery that AM radio talk show hosts like to use when they criticize people.

There was plenty of healthy debate about the meaning of "concealed" in the jury room before we decided to let the guy go, but not one of us took the guy's bait. After the case was over I did a lot of reading about this assistant DA and saw that he wants to be a judge, he's lost at least one election for a vacant seat, and the local teabaggers love him. My opinion after seeing how he conducts a case, he's the last person I'd want to see on the bench here in Milwaukee.


I don't see what the question of the handgun being concealed or tinted windows has to with the tea party or politics in general.

People tend to make a lot of assumptions about the way people think. I think you can divide people into two groups: people who think there are two kinds of peopke, and everyone else.
 
2014-03-09 12:45:41 PM  

winterbraid: Ah, Fark. Assume the headline is exaggerating for comedic effect, then RTFA and has a sad.


Well, the headline was exaggerating.  It said 'every' prosecutor, while according to TFA:

at least 13 of the head prosecutors in the state's 16 judicial districts, along with South Carolina Attorney General Alan Wilson, are asking for Beatty's to be recused from criminal cases.

it was not every prosecutor.  Merely at least 82% of them.
 
2014-03-09 01:09:47 PM  

Animatronik: I don't see what the question of the handgun being concealed or tinted windows has to with the tea party or politics in general.



Sometimes I babble a little, okay??

The point of my Cool Story was that I've personally observed, first-hand, an instance of a jerkass prosecutor with ambitions who in my opinion shouldn't be a judge.
 
2014-03-09 01:15:21 PM  

phaseolus: Animatronik: I don't see what the question of the handgun being concealed or tinted windows has to with the tea party or politics in general.


Sometimes I babble a little, okay??

The point of my Cool Story was that I've personally observed, first-hand, an instance of a jerkass prosecutor with ambitions who in my opinion shouldn't be a judge.


I've seen jerk assed prosecutors who shouldn't even be prosecutors.  We had one in my county in the 90's that tried to confiscate a guy's house because he'd gotten busted with a bag of weed.  These people have no shame and are accountable to no one.
 
2014-03-09 01:38:34 PM  
Prosecutors think they are untouchable by the law.
Have fun in court. Suggest to the Judge that the Prosecutor should be jailed for obstructing/perverting justice. Watch the Prosecutor get all mad and occasionally quit trying to get what he wants, instead of what the law allows.

/No one is above the law
//It takes awhile to snag them, but its pure joy.
 
2014-03-09 01:51:48 PM  

Milo Minderbinder: I'm glad I didn't miss this week's Two Minutes of Hate towards prosecutors.


Well... when a prosecutor cheats to win, an innocent man goes to prison.

When a defense attourney cheats to win, a guilty man goes free.

You wanna maybe ask William Blackstone why people in a democratic, free society might be just a  tiny bit angrier about the first one than the second?
 
2014-03-09 01:59:54 PM  

Jim_Callahan: Milo Minderbinder: I'm glad I didn't miss this week's Two Minutes of Hate towards prosecutors.

Well... when a prosecutor cheats to win, an innocent man goes to prison.

When a defense attourney cheats to win, a guilty man goes free.

You wanna maybe ask William Blackstone why people in a democratic, free society might be just a  tiny bit angrier about the first one than the second?


Worse than that - when the prosecutor sends an innocent man to prison, that means the guilty guy is free to walk the streets!
 
2014-03-09 02:22:53 PM  

mgshamster: A few years ago I read an opinion by a criminal prosecutor. He said that he didn't believe in "post conviction evidence." What that means is that he thinks once someone has been convicted, no matter what the means, then that is that and any new evidence that may prove the defendant's innocence should be ignored.

That's the kind of prosecutor that would be against this judge. All that matters is that they get another conviction - another notch in the stick. They don't care about justice, or solving a crime, or criminal rehabilitation, or prison overcrowding, or anything else. They just care about convicting, and they'll withhold evidence or lie to make it happen, whether you're guilty or not.


Could it be former Lake County Il prosecutor Mike Mermel? This is a guy that said DNA is irrelevant in violent crimes when he was questioned about how DNA test showed that sperm found inside several rape and murder victims did not come from men he prosecuted and got convicted for the crimes.
 
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