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(BBC-US)   Missing Malaysia Airlines flight may have turned back, and four passenger names have been given to intelligence agencies   (bbc.com ) divider line 52
    More: Followup, Malaysia Airlines, Malaysia, intelligence  
•       •       •

12290 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Mar 2014 at 8:00 AM (1 year ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2014-03-09 08:18:10 AM  
6 votes:
I suspect that two fake IDs is about average on a flight in some parts of the world.
2014-03-09 08:14:32 AM  
5 votes:

shower_in_my_socks: WaPo also saying that as many as four people on the flight had fake IDs.


There's an automatic assumption that these fake passport holders were terrorists.
 

It's a lot more likely they were illegal immigrants.  A whole lot more likely.  Maybe a million times more likely.  Some were even booked through all the way to Europe.

A fake passport, a little luck, welcome to Europe.
2014-03-09 11:32:47 AM  
4 votes:
Just a friendly fyi for you guys speculating.

This hull (9M-MRO)is the same hull that was involved in an incident on 09AUG2012.

During taxing at Shanghai this aircraft left a large section of it's starboard wing on another aircraft due to bad parking. The damage was considered severe and the aircraft was repaired.

This has to be the leading cause of the catastrophic failure at this point, as this is the only thing we have to go on.

Incident rundown here: http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=147571
2014-03-09 08:16:24 AM  
4 votes:
The more I hear about this the more I think that there was someone on that plane that the governments wanted dead.  There is no way with current technology that a major airliner can vanish without a trace...we can read a license plate from space, nobody is going to convince me that some lettered agency does not know exactly what happened to this plane.
2014-03-09 12:24:15 PM  
3 votes:
EponymousCowHerd:

If the wing had failed suddenly at 35,000 feet, the turbulence from the drop would have ripped the plane apart.  If the plane was sufficiently intact to prevent a lot of floating debris, it is hard to see how a wing failure could have prevented the pilots from activating a distress beacon at least.

Honestly, an EgyptAir 990-type scenario seems more likely.


Right. What distress beacon are the pilots activating exactly? I have no idea where you got that info from.

The drill in an emergency is Aviate, Navigate, Communicate. In that order. In an emergency your primary responsibility is flying it, then figuring out where you are, a very far third is talking to people because, you know, they can't help you.

The automated beacons are switched on automatically by a more than 2.3g event (crash) or contact with water.

Pilots don't do that. They can squawk an emergency code if they have time, they don't activate shiat. It's automatic.
2014-03-09 08:16:20 AM  
3 votes:
"Mr Hussein told a press conference that four names on the passenger list had been given to intelligence agencies to look at."

For future reference, please provide these names before  the plane takes off...thank you in advance.
2014-03-09 07:58:39 PM  
2 votes:

emberposse: There have been a number of theories put forward. The BBC goes with the one that fits their world view.



I would prefer a 'news' organization not put forward any theories and instead report verified facts and checked sources.

I know this is asking a lot, especially when a network is expected to report news for 24 hours.
2014-03-09 09:52:13 AM  
2 votes:

Fissile: So we know  that at least 4 people were traveling with fake documents.  OK, how is it that we know, after the fact, that people were traveling with fake documents, but no one can seem to figure this out BEFORE they board the plane?


They found out about the first two by finding the people alive somewhere else.  If they discovered the other two in the same manner, well, it would be absolutely impossible to look up the millions of people who fly every day to see if they're existing somewhere other than the airport that day.
2014-03-09 09:42:18 AM  
2 votes:

nekom: I mean why would one go from Kuala Lumpur to Frankfurt or Copenhagen by way of a connection in Beijing?  Wouldn't Lufthansa, Air France or KLM have a more direct route?  Of course it could be they were just the cheapest tickets they could find.


Many of the western airlines flying out of KL provide their own security, because KL's airport security is subpar.  They probably figured (correctly) that they'd be more likely to get out on stolen passports on a Malaysia Airlines flight, then head to Europe from an airport where they're not going to get enhanced security procedures.  They just picked the wrong flight.

I may eat my words later, but to me this sounds like the most likely stolen passport scenario here.
2014-03-09 09:29:32 AM  
2 votes:
Couple of points.

The BBC article refers to a previous crash in which no fewer than ten people on board were subsequently found to be travelling on false documentation. So statistically speaking, this discovery does not appear to be unusual.

As to the lack of communication, the now extensive data about AF447 shows that three minutes elapsed between the time the pilot returned to the cabin because there were signs of trouble and the plane hitting the water. The crew made no announcement or call during that time, they spent it all trying to fathom out how to fly the plane, which was in fact stalled.

In summary: the complete radio silence is not at all unprecedented in the event of a catastrophic but not immediately destructive situation; a plane can go from crusing altitude to sea level in three minutes; terrorism is not required.

One scenario that fits with available knowledge at this point is that, say, a wingtip from the earlier repair job on the aircraft sheared off and hit the tailpiece, resulting in a loss of control. But this is complete speculation at this point.

It is suprising no trace has been found of the plane yet, though..
2014-03-09 08:35:38 AM  
2 votes:

BillArr: The more I hear about this the more I think that there was someone on that plane that the governments wanted dead.  There is no way with current technology that a major airliner can vanish without a trace...we can read a license plate from space, nobody is going to convince me that some lettered agency does not know exactly what happened to this plane.


"nobody is going to convince me" is a pretty closed minded response.  That's exactly what the anti vaxxers, truthers, young worlders, climate change deniers, politically correct proponents and that trans woman whose name I forgot say;  "nobody is going to convince me"

Good for you.
2014-03-09 08:24:48 AM  
2 votes:
http://news.163.com/14/0309/12/9MT5NSUU0001121M.html  (In Chinese) reporting that the Austrian and Italian phony passport people's ticket numbers were sequential, so I guess that means they bought them at the same time.
2014-03-09 08:23:40 AM  
2 votes:
BillArr:
The more I hear about this the more I think that there was someone on that plane that the governments wanted dead.  There is no way with current technology that a major airliner can vanish without a trace...we can read a license plate from space, nobody is going to convince me that some lettered agency does not know exactly what happened to this plane.

While enticing, this hypothesis wildly fails on the grounds of too many unfounded assumptions.  It is much, much more likely that the aircraft had a technical failure and fell out of the sky into a big, big ocean.

After all... how many flights with multiple stolen-passport holders on board DON'T disappear?  We just don't ever hear about those ones.
2014-03-10 12:12:58 AM  
1 vote:
To me this serves as proof that the 1989 hit movie Millenium starring Kris Kristofferson is real as shiat.  They've gone to the future to preserve the future!  That means the Chinese will be the dominant race during the time of Picard and Mua'dib.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0097883/?ref_=fn_al_tt_3
2014-03-09 07:10:21 PM  
1 vote:

emberposse: The BBC has been pursuing a campaign of "Don't blame Muslims at any cost" which might explain the idiotic headline about the plane turning back to somewhere.



You do realize that the story about the flight possibly turning back originated from the Malaysian transport minister, and not the BBC, right? They're just reporting on what he said. And you know that you "can't blame Muslims" when you don't even know why the plane crashed, right? That "campaign," as you call it, is what everyone else knows as responsible journalism.
2014-03-09 06:42:53 PM  
1 vote:

emberposse: The BBC has been pursuing a campaign of "Don't blame Muslims at any cost" which might explain the idiotic headline about the plane turning back to somewhere.


Just when I thought I heard something stupid.

The BBC didn't make that headline up, the radar data from Malaysia's Air Force showed that. Unless you think the Malaysia Air Force is behind this whole conspiracy.
2014-03-09 03:25:19 PM  
1 vote:
What I got outta this thread:

Some guys with their right hands chewed off.

2-millimeter womp rats.

And no f**king telemetry.
2014-03-09 03:19:18 PM  
1 vote:

Khazar-Khum: Peter von Nostrand: BravadoGT: If it turns out to be a terrorist attack (and I think it will)--that would be a lot of dead Chinese at the hands of the Religion of Peace™ recently.

You want it to be a terrorist attack to fit your political agenda. Stay classy

Look up "Uighers".  Then get back to me, mmmkay?


At first I thought it was plausible. But if they were terrorists, why would they buy not 1 but 2 additional plane tickets in addition to this one to Beijing?

That plus the reports of the plane possibly trying to turn back to KL make me think it was less likely that it was a terrorist attack.
2014-03-09 02:55:16 PM  
1 vote:

BigNumber12: I'm going to go on-record with a guess that the pilots were flying manually, and the aircraft suffered explosive decompression


I'm pretty skeptical. It's not like you go unconscious immediately, according to Wikipedia, you'd be likely to have something like 20 seconds of useful conciousness at a typical cruising altitude. (Maybe a bit less.) That's not much time in some sense, but in that time all they'd have to do is grab the O2 masks from behind their seats. This is something that they've been trained about. Furthermore, while I don't have any specific reason to know this, I suspect the pressure would take at least a few seconds to drop to ambient in any event that wouldn't result in a loss of the aircraft anyway, so that gives a bit more time.

Then of course there's the unlikeliness of "flying manually" in the first place.
2014-03-09 02:29:29 PM  
1 vote:

nekom: bikkurikun:
Not really, remember the earth is round and shortest route is close to poles, it's quite a normal route.

Oh I didn't mean that flight's route was unusual, I mean why would one go from Kuala Lumpur to Frankfurt or Copenhagen by way of a connection in Beijing?  Wouldn't Lufthansa, Air France or KLM have a more direct route?  Of course it could be they were just the cheapest tickets they could find.  It remains entirely possible that these were just miscellaneous criminals, drug mules or illegal immigrants or whathaveyou, who had shiatty luck.


Direct flights cost more. Poor immigrants fleeing a country tend to not be loaded with disposable income. You get there however you can.
2014-03-09 02:09:47 PM  
1 vote:
I'm seeing a LOT of misconceptions about how the emergency beacons aboard commercial aircraft of this size work.

Couple of things:

- The fixed beacon on the airframe will only go off if the mechanical switch (ball & spring inside a cylinder) perceives a 2.3g delta velocity change in the forward axis only. Water landings of any kind, as a rule, generally do not set off these beacons. An impact in any direction other than about a 45 degree cone in the forward axis will not activate them. They are not waterproof, and will cease to function the moment it is submerged.

- There are other beacons aboard the aircraft, one or more in the cabin for crew manual activation, and several installed on the inflatable rafts & slides. These only activate if the switch on them is manually turned on, or the slide / raft is deployed (which yanks a strap off the beacon, causing it to activate). These are not waterproof either, nor are they buoyant unless they have a float collar on them (most do not). They are also not water activated, this functionality is only present on EPIRBs which are reserved for boats / ships at sea.

In a case similar to the Air France crash a few years ago, unless the pilots manually activate the airframe beacon by using the control panel (usually mounted above the co-pilots head), the beacon will not go off at all. If it is set off manually over water, you might (at best) get 2 or 3 pulses out, which is not enough for the satellite system to triangulate the position. Some models do integrate with GPS on the aircraft to provide location data, however most commercial airlines don't spring for the extra cost of this type beacon or the labor cost of running 2 ARINC wires from the cockpit all the way back to the beacon in the tail (thousands of dollars in labor man hours).

Source: I used to manage the tech support / technical sales integration department for the largest manufacturer of emergency beacons in the US.
2014-03-09 01:49:57 PM  
1 vote:

nekom: Spacman: BalugaJoe: Plane is listed as Delayed.

Yeah, it is. I get a tad choked up by that.

Despite the fact it is days late the aircraft will be considered to be delayed until the main wreckage and bodies are found and it becomes a hull loss/accident.

This is fairly common, Air France 447 was listed as delayed for almost 3 years.

It would be something if the plane just landed in Beijing about now and the passengers and crew acted as if it had been a normal flight.


img1.wikia.nocookie.net
wanted for questioning.
2014-03-09 01:48:29 PM  
1 vote:

All Latest: I suspect that two fake IDs is about average on a flight in some parts of the world.


I suspect you didn't suspect this last week and now have 1 data point
2014-03-09 01:43:30 PM  
1 vote:

Spacman: BalugaJoe: Plane is listed as Delayed.

Yeah, it is. I get a tad choked up by that.

Despite the fact it is days late the aircraft will be considered to be delayed until the main wreckage and bodies are found and it becomes a hull loss/accident.

This is fairly common, Air France 447 was listed as delayed for almost 3 years.


It would be something if the plane just landed in Beijing about now and the passengers and crew acted as if it had been a normal flight.
2014-03-09 12:57:19 PM  
1 vote:

BillArr: The more I hear about this the more I think that there was someone on that plane that the governments wanted dead.  There is no way with current technology that a major airliner can vanish without a trace...we can read a license plate from space, nobody is going to convince me that some lettered agency does not know exactly what happened to this plane.


Any agency capable of vanishing an entire aircraft to get rid of one guy is capable of vanishing that one guy in a much less newsworthy fashion.
2014-03-09 12:36:48 PM  
1 vote:

EmmaLou: If it was terrorism, I'm guessing a group would've claimed it by now.


As I mentioned in another thread, planes have been blown up in the past without anyone claiming responsibility. Air India 182 was one example, but there are others on this list where the bombers were only identified through criminal investigations (and some which are still unsolved). Those may be examples of "wanting people dead" rather than "terrorism", but the end result is the same.
2014-03-09 12:36:42 PM  
1 vote:

powhound: Spacman: EponymousCowHerd: Spacman: BravadoGT: If it turns out to be a terrorist attack (and I think it will)--that would be a lot of dead Chinese at the hands of the Religion of Peace™ recently.

You really think it is more likely to be a terrorist attack, with no claim of responsibility, than a bad repair on an aircraft that was severely damaged?

I don't see how a damaged wing could result in a failure that resulted in:
1) No mayday call.
2) Virtually no floating debris.

I don't think terrorism is an explanation either.

An aircraft ripping off a part of its wing and being repaired badly is, at the moment, the most likely scenario we have. Check out JAL123 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Airlines_Flight_123  it is a great example of shoddy repairs leading to a catastrophic failure years down the line.

I find that unlikely. First of all, I doubt it would lead to an entire loss of the wing, and the pilots would likely have had time to communicate, and possibly save the plane. Secondly, if it did lead to an immediate loss of an entire wing, that plane would have come down in pieces. This leads us to the debris field question. They knew about where the plane was and after 24 hours nothing? Except for possible reports of a door and tail piece.

Chances are that the plane was flown into the ocean relatively intact. Without time to radio a distress call, or the radios were disabled, or the pilots were disabled, or it was pilot suicide. Or it was a bungled hijacking. Or a successful hijacking and the plane is in NK.

The whole thing is just bizarre.


Some time in the next 18 months to two years a full, complete and comprehensive accident report by the NTSB (as the US will report as the country of manufacture of the aircraft) will come out.

Anything said before that is complete and utter bullshiat, you don't have the facts.
2014-03-09 12:35:20 PM  
1 vote:
Just saw this on twitter.
Are we sure it went down over water?
2014-03-09 12:22:23 PM  
1 vote:
elvisaintdead:
and if it augured in, wouldn't there have been some sort of "oh shiat" message from the cockpit, and/or 200+ cell phones lighting up (service or not)?  which leads us back to the big go-boom and the debris field...

riding a fuselage for 5-6 mins all the way down to your absolute death is a certain hell unto itself.  *shudder*


I'm sure that would be an inconceivable hell.  But don't assume they would necessarily have time for a distress message.  The priorities of flying are, in this order:  Aviate, navigate, communicate.  If you're fighting to regain control of a doomed aircraft, it may not be top priority to radio someone to let them know just how farked you are.  Like "Hey, air traffic control, we're boned.  Really boned.  You can't help us, but we thought we'd take the time to let you know we're like ROYALLY screwed here.  Over."
2014-03-09 12:19:56 PM  
1 vote:

BravadoGT: If it turns out to be a terrorist attack (and I think it will)--that would be a lot of dead Chinese at the hands of the Religion of Peace™ recently.


You want it to be a terrorist attack to fit your political agenda. Stay classy
2014-03-09 12:02:41 PM  
1 vote:

Fissile: So we know  that at least 4 people were traveling with fake documents.  OK, how is it that we know, after the fact, that people were traveling with fake documents, but no one can seem to figure this out BEFORE they board the plane?


Because people are lazy.

/seriously.
2014-03-09 11:54:42 AM  
1 vote:

EponymousCowHerd: Spacman: BravadoGT: If it turns out to be a terrorist attack (and I think it will)--that would be a lot of dead Chinese at the hands of the Religion of Peace™ recently.

You really think it is more likely to be a terrorist attack, with no claim of responsibility, than a bad repair on an aircraft that was severely damaged?

I don't see how a damaged wing could result in a failure that resulted in:
1) No mayday call.
2) Virtually no floating debris.

I don't think terrorism is an explanation either.


An aircraft ripping off a part of its wing and being repaired badly is, at the moment, the most likely scenario we have. Check out JAL123 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Airlines_Flight_123  it is a great example of shoddy repairs leading to a catastrophic failure years down the line.
2014-03-09 11:46:08 AM  
1 vote:

BravadoGT: If it turns out to be a terrorist attack (and I think it will)--that would be a lot of dead Chinese at the hands of the Religion of Peace™ recently.


You really think it is more likely to be a terrorist attack, with no claim of responsibility, than a bad repair on an aircraft that was severely damaged?
2014-03-09 11:24:06 AM  
1 vote:

italie: EponymousCowHerd: cyberbenali: I took the last coordinates from the flight tracker at FlightAware. The flight left Kuala Lumpur and was last tracked at those coordinates. Ca Mau peninsula is where the oil slicks were seen, probably 45-60 mins of flight time away (+-600km) from the last known location.

The flightaware data has already been deemed useless. Last contact with radar was over the ocean.


Second that. Just looked at last flights, seem they all lose ADS-B right around the time the missing plane did, and don't pick it up again for quite some time. That starts to explain a lot of the confusion as to where the plane is.


Only for people who think Flightaware is an authoritative source for airplane location data. The people leading the search have more information than Flightaware does
2014-03-09 11:23:01 AM  
1 vote:
cdnl.complex.com
2014-03-09 11:15:05 AM  
1 vote:

Coach_J: The stolen and faked passport thing is really common place around the world.

Some countries (US, UK, Canada, Germany, etc.) are extraordinarily on top of passport security and control and others like Greece, Italy and Albania don't give two shiats about it...it's about 5,000th on their "things we care about list".

/found this out when we did an M&A of an Italian company
//35% of the worker documentation was stolen and forged
///mostly to evade taxes, BTW


It would be interesting to know if either of the stolen passports were used prior to this.  Presumably, the only way to check that is to get a travel history from the legitimate holders and check it against passport control history.

If they have been used often in the past (which is certainly possible, they wouldn't have been noticed this time but for the crash), that would to me suggest "not terrorism".
2014-03-09 10:57:09 AM  
1 vote:

wxboy: At this point, given the total lack of finding anything definitive in terms of debris, I have to wonder if they're looking in entirely the wrong place.

Possibility 1:  Catastrophic failure that wiped out electronics and backups, but let the plane keep flying for a bit before crashing.  In this scenario, the pilots are flying blind with no radio in the dark, in a crippled jet until finally crashing.  I don't know how likely this is in a 777.

Possibility 2:  Hijacking (possibly with pilot/copilot involved) results in transponder and other outward data shut off, no radio call.  Plane is flown and ultimately crashed somewhere unexpected.  Probably pretty unlikely.

What else would cause a plane to disappear from radar at altitude and subsequently veer off course and not turn up somewhere?


The air France crash was egregious pilot error following sensor mishap. They flew her obliviously into the ocean. Better training would have prevented it.

Same with asiana at SFO. Seems like some pilots get too used to autopilot and misread things.
2014-03-09 10:28:09 AM  
1 vote:

italie: BillArr: The more I hear about this the more I think that there was someone on that plane that the governments wanted dead.  There is no way with current technology that a major airliner can vanish without a trace...we can read a license plate from space, nobody is going to convince me that some lettered agency does not know exactly what happened to this plane.

Listen Luke,

While it's not impossible, this isn't an easy task. I know you used to bull's-eye womp rats in your t-16 back home and they're not much bigger than 2 meters. If you were to scale the area in which you were taking out womp rats to the size of the ocean search area, you'd probably be aiming for a 2 millimeter womp rat at the same distance.

If your Jedi skillz are still god at that scale, I will personally buy you a plane ticket so you can go help look.


Oh wait, are they saying they lost contact when it was over water now? I haven't been following the story day-to-day so I was working off the previous idea that the flight plan took it over the Vietnamese/Cambodian highlands.
2014-03-09 10:13:30 AM  
1 vote:
People fly with fake or stolen documents all the time. I'm pretty surprised it was only 2 on this flight.

If it was terrorism, I'm guessing a group would've claimed it by now.
2014-03-09 09:42:59 AM  
1 vote:
So we know  that at least 4 people were traveling with fake documents.  OK, how is it that we know, after the fact, that people were traveling with fake documents, but no one can seem to figure this out BEFORE they board the plane?
2014-03-09 09:32:26 AM  
1 vote:
At this point, if it had blown up, the sea would be littered with floating debris. If is is this hard to find, it must have been flown intact into the water.
2014-03-09 09:12:42 AM  
1 vote:

susler: BillArr: The more I hear about this the more I think that there was someone on that plane that the governments wanted dead.  There is no way with current technology that a major airliner can vanish without a trace...we can read a license plate from space, nobody is going to convince me that some lettered agency does not know exactly what happened to this plane.

"nobody is going to convince me" is a pretty closed minded response.  That's exactly what the anti vaxxers, truthers, young worlders, climate change deniers, politically correct proponents and that trans woman whose name I forgot say;  "nobody is going to convince me"

Good for you.


If the government wants you dead, they certianly don't need to blow up a plane to do it.
Unles you think British spies strangle themselves and then zip themselves up in a suitcase and padlock the outside.

Or just pull a David Carradine on you. (The same David Carradine they pulled on David Carradine)
2014-03-09 09:10:07 AM  
1 vote:
Is there any report of any anomaly in the area? I am suprised that no boat captain or pilot saw any thing. Isn't that area of the SCS fairly congested?
2014-03-09 09:05:54 AM  
1 vote:

themunsterfullback: It's been a few days and we hear everything from mechanical nose diving to terrorists landing it in another country. It's not like this was a twin engine puddle jumper either, a 777 shouldn't take too long to find especially if not in one piece. Strange.


I HIGHLY doubt it was hijacked and landed somewhere.  This isn't a piper cub you can put down in a corn field then hide in the barn, you need at least a mile long runway.  Speculation is always fun and of course without it what's the purpose of having a thread on it, but we're probably ALL going to turn out to be wrong.  This is a plane with a great safety record that just disappeared at cruising, generally the last time during a flight you'd expect problems.  In perfect weather, with no signs of distress or witnesses of explosion.  Obviously SOMETHING went catastrophically wrong.  My money is on either a terrorist bomb or something very important broke off and sent it into an uncontrollable dive.
2014-03-09 08:57:45 AM  
1 vote:

susler: BillArr: The more I hear about this the more I think that there was someone on that plane that the governments wanted dead.  There is no way with current technology that a major airliner can vanish without a trace...we can read a license plate from space, nobody is going to convince me that some lettered agency does not know exactly what happened to this plane.

"nobody is going to convince me" is a pretty closed minded response.  That's exactly what the anti vaxxers, truthers, young worlders, climate change deniers, politically correct proponents and that trans woman whose name I forgot say;  "nobody is going to convince me"

Good for you.


It's amusing to watch threads get turned into liberal circle jerks and here is the first attempt in this thread.
2014-03-09 08:51:51 AM  
1 vote:
bikkurikun:
Not really, remember the earth is round and shortest route is close to poles, it's quite a normal route.

Oh I didn't mean that flight's route was unusual, I mean why would one go from Kuala Lumpur to Frankfurt or Copenhagen by way of a connection in Beijing?  Wouldn't Lufthansa, Air France or KLM have a more direct route?  Of course it could be they were just the cheapest tickets they could find.  It remains entirely possible that these were just miscellaneous criminals, drug mules or illegal immigrants or whathaveyou, who had shiatty luck.
2014-03-09 08:38:50 AM  
1 vote:

pacochu: Did they forget the Columbian coffee?


Colombia. No U. Columbia is an arcane term for America (ie Washington, District of Columbia)
2014-03-09 08:29:42 AM  
1 vote:
They gave them four names?
s18.postimg.org
2014-03-09 08:24:46 AM  
1 vote:
CNN article says the two passengers with the stolen Italian and Austrian passports had tickets that were bought together. They were to go from Beijing to Amsterdam then split up, going to Copenhagen and Frankfort.
2014-03-09 08:24:06 AM  
1 vote:
Wow,  subbys headline has just as much info in it as the article does,  neat.

O_o
2014-03-09 08:20:14 AM  
1 vote:
Welp, time for the TSA to ask for even more FREEDOM PAPERS at the airport.
2014-03-09 05:53:45 AM  
1 vote:
Turned back to WHERE!!?? Where are the transponders?

WHERE IS THE TELEMETRY??
 
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