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(BBC-US)   Missing Malaysia Airlines flight may have turned back, and four passenger names have been given to intelligence agencies   (bbc.com) divider line 217
    More: Followup, Malaysia Airlines, Malaysia, intelligence  
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12269 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Mar 2014 at 8:00 AM (40 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-09 09:12:42 AM  

susler: BillArr: The more I hear about this the more I think that there was someone on that plane that the governments wanted dead.  There is no way with current technology that a major airliner can vanish without a trace...we can read a license plate from space, nobody is going to convince me that some lettered agency does not know exactly what happened to this plane.

"nobody is going to convince me" is a pretty closed minded response.  That's exactly what the anti vaxxers, truthers, young worlders, climate change deniers, politically correct proponents and that trans woman whose name I forgot say;  "nobody is going to convince me"

Good for you.


If the government wants you dead, they certianly don't need to blow up a plane to do it.
Unles you think British spies strangle themselves and then zip themselves up in a suitcase and padlock the outside.

Or just pull a David Carradine on you. (The same David Carradine they pulled on David Carradine)
 
2014-03-09 09:12:55 AM  

Matthew Keene: nekom: My money is on either a terrorist bomb or something very important broke off and sent it into an uncontrollable dive.

Why can't these things crash into an orphanage full of blind kids, so at least we know what happened and don't have to do a sea search?


Why do you hate blind orphans?
 
2014-03-09 09:14:14 AM  
Have they checked the airport in Reno.
 
2014-03-09 09:22:33 AM  
What is human trafficking Alex?
 
2014-03-09 09:23:22 AM  

Deep Contact: They'll find the incriminating passports floating on the oil slick along with a red bandana.


Officer 1: "What's this red shiat?"
Officer 2: "A bandana"
Officer 1: "A what?"
Officer 2: "This shiat is bandana. B-A-N-D-A-N-A"
 
2014-03-09 09:23:44 AM  
This is what happens when people have too much freedom and liberalized passports.

You can't fake a stool sample while my hand is up your arse.
 
2014-03-09 09:28:19 AM  
experts even suggested a pilot purposely crashing the jet, because of the lack of distress call.
 
2014-03-09 09:29:11 AM  

Marcellinus: This is what happens when people have too much freedom and liberalized passports.

You can't fake a stool sample while my hand is up your arse.


Oh really?
 
2014-03-09 09:29:32 AM  
Couple of points.

The BBC article refers to a previous crash in which no fewer than ten people on board were subsequently found to be travelling on false documentation. So statistically speaking, this discovery does not appear to be unusual.

As to the lack of communication, the now extensive data about AF447 shows that three minutes elapsed between the time the pilot returned to the cabin because there were signs of trouble and the plane hitting the water. The crew made no announcement or call during that time, they spent it all trying to fathom out how to fly the plane, which was in fact stalled.

In summary: the complete radio silence is not at all unprecedented in the event of a catastrophic but not immediately destructive situation; a plane can go from crusing altitude to sea level in three minutes; terrorism is not required.

One scenario that fits with available knowledge at this point is that, say, a wingtip from the earlier repair job on the aircraft sheared off and hit the tailpiece, resulting in a loss of control. But this is complete speculation at this point.

It is suprising no trace has been found of the plane yet, though..
 
2014-03-09 09:32:26 AM  
At this point, if it had blown up, the sea would be littered with floating debris. If is is this hard to find, it must have been flown intact into the water.
 
2014-03-09 09:33:16 AM  
Dammit Obama when will you sheeple awaken. I'm getting my foil helmet.
 
2014-03-09 09:37:40 AM  

AngryDragon: Marcellinus: This is what happens when people have too much freedom and liberalized passports.

You can't fake a stool sample while my hand is up your arse.

Oh really?


You are just the type of person we need at the TSA.

If not for the children...won't you please think of the homeland.
 
2014-03-09 09:38:57 AM  
www.catholiclifeministries.org

The plane either turned back or it didn't. It either crashed or it didn't. All we really know is that we must invade Malaysia.
 
2014-03-09 09:42:18 AM  

nekom: I mean why would one go from Kuala Lumpur to Frankfurt or Copenhagen by way of a connection in Beijing?  Wouldn't Lufthansa, Air France or KLM have a more direct route?  Of course it could be they were just the cheapest tickets they could find.


Many of the western airlines flying out of KL provide their own security, because KL's airport security is subpar.  They probably figured (correctly) that they'd be more likely to get out on stolen passports on a Malaysia Airlines flight, then head to Europe from an airport where they're not going to get enhanced security procedures.  They just picked the wrong flight.

I may eat my words later, but to me this sounds like the most likely stolen passport scenario here.
 
2014-03-09 09:42:59 AM  
So we know  that at least 4 people were traveling with fake documents.  OK, how is it that we know, after the fact, that people were traveling with fake documents, but no one can seem to figure this out BEFORE they board the plane?
 
2014-03-09 09:45:49 AM  

robertus: pacochu: Did they forget the Columbian coffee?


Disapproves


Did they owe Lindo coffee money? You'll need to check with accounting.
 
2014-03-09 09:47:30 AM  

Munchkin City Coroner: [www.catholiclifeministries.org image 300x225]

The plane either turned back or it didn't. It either crashed or it didn't. All we really know is that we must invade Malaysia.


You mean Iraq. No matter what, we must invade Iraq. You know, 3rd times the charm and all.
 
2014-03-09 09:48:24 AM  
Seems pretty clear what happened here....

img2.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2014-03-09 09:50:43 AM  

super_grass: Welp, time for the TSA to ask for even more FREEDOM PAPERS at the airport.


Only for the poor and the blah. We trust the white rich people.
 
2014-03-09 09:52:00 AM  
Time travel
Lost scenario
Aliens
 
2014-03-09 09:52:13 AM  

Fissile: So we know  that at least 4 people were traveling with fake documents.  OK, how is it that we know, after the fact, that people were traveling with fake documents, but no one can seem to figure this out BEFORE they board the plane?


They found out about the first two by finding the people alive somewhere else.  If they discovered the other two in the same manner, well, it would be absolutely impossible to look up the millions of people who fly every day to see if they're existing somewhere other than the airport that day.
 
2014-03-09 09:55:46 AM  
OtherLittleGuy
2014-03-09 09:50:43 AM

super_grass: Welp, time for the TSA to ask for even more FREEDOM PAPERS at the airport.

Only for the poor and the blah. We trust the white rich people.

You honestly expected messiah hope-n-change to get the alphabets off the backs of the little people? It went from bush's idiotic "Take off your shoes" policy to "We're gonna grab you child's dick" under zero.
 
2014-03-09 09:56:40 AM  
I heard it was a problem with the left phalange.
 
2014-03-09 09:57:28 AM  

nekom: Oh I didn't mean that flight's route was unusual, I mean why would one go from Kuala Lumpur to Frankfurt or Copenhagen by way of a connection in Beijing?  Wouldn't Lufthansa, Air France or KLM have a more direct route?  Of course it could be they were just the cheapest tickets they could find.


The cheaper option probably. I can fly direct to see my relatives, but if I take an extra 2-hour bus ride to a different airport to take a flight with a short layover, I only pay 33% of what that direct flight would be. Plus a lot of routes go through one of the big hub airports. I know a lot of people who get layovers in Amsterdam for this reason.
 
2014-03-09 09:59:19 AM  
 
2014-03-09 09:59:27 AM  
it was aliens. duh.
 
2014-03-09 10:10:53 AM  
WSJ reporting a piece of tail and composite inner door have been spotted by a Vietnamese aircraft.
 
2014-03-09 10:12:00 AM  

utah dude: it was aliens. duh.


www.adweek.com
 
2014-03-09 10:13:30 AM  
People fly with fake or stolen documents all the time. I'm pretty surprised it was only 2 on this flight.

If it was terrorism, I'm guessing a group would've claimed it by now.
 
2014-03-09 10:16:57 AM  

BillArr: The more I hear about this the more I think that there was someone on that plane that the governments wanted dead.  There is no way with current technology that a major airliner can vanish without a trace...we can read a license plate from space, nobody is going to convince me that some lettered agency does not know exactly what happened to this plane.


Listen Luke,

While it's not impossible, this isn't an easy task. I know you used to bull's-eye womp rats in your t-16 back home and they're not much bigger than 2 meters. If you were to scale the area in which you were taking out womp rats to the size of the ocean search area, you'd probably be aiming for a 2 millimeter womp rat at the same distance.

If your Jedi skillz are still god at that scale, I will personally buy you a plane ticket so you can go help look.
 
2014-03-09 10:17:09 AM  
 
2014-03-09 10:17:40 AM  

EmmaLou: People fly with fake or stolen documents all the time. I'm pretty surprised it was only 2 on this flight.

If it was terrorism, I'm guessing a group would've claimed it by now.


Maybe they're all having a meeting together to discuss who should get the claim
 
2014-03-09 10:17:51 AM  
I read an article somewhere on the innerwebs Friday about a SCS territorial dispute. During such time, what is the plausibility that a plane with no communications (can't say don't shoot) is shot down as a UFO by one of the countries involved in said dispute?

And, if the search and rescue teams hail from several countries involved in said dispute, what is their motivation to confirm or deny wreckage?

/puts on tinfoil hat
 
2014-03-09 10:19:43 AM  

robertus: pacochu: Did they forget the Columbian coffee?


Disapproves


Coffee buying is a dangerous business...
 
2014-03-09 10:21:45 AM  

BillArr: The more I hear about this the more I think that there was someone on that plane that the governments wanted dead.  There is no way with current technology that a major airliner can vanish without a trace...we can read a license plate from space, nobody is going to convince me that some lettered agency does not know exactly what happened to this plane.


I had a bit of a paranoid moment when I first heard about this, where I considered the plane's disappearance may have been engineered by the Chinese as a casus belli with Vietnam. The US is distracted with Ukraine right now, making it the perfect time for the Chinese to take some sucker-punches at the ring of alliances and mutual-defense pacts the US is trying to engineer in the Asian Pacific to counter China's concentrated strength. So they sneak a bomber on the plan, blow it up over Vietnam or Cambodia, insist it was "Vietnamese anti-air missiles" what did it, then start waving the bloody shirt over the dead Chinese citizens on board.

However, I quickly realized this is a pretty ridiculous idea. Airline-industry maintenance standards are certainly not what they should be, and I wouldn't be surprised to hear the company that owned this plane was skimping in that regard. The plane could have fallen out of the sky due to mech failure and, given the dense, isolated terrain it was flying over, it could be weeks or months before the crash site is found. And there's still the optimistic possibility that this was a hijacking and that the passengers are ostensibly "safe" for the moment. Maybe the NK regime is getting back into the mass international kidnapping game? God knows they need the labor given the last decade of engineered famine over there.

I think it'd be better to wait for the investigation, rather than start spinning crazy stories about this.
 
2014-03-09 10:25:38 AM  

Agarista: pic of floating object  http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/travel/travel-news/malaysia-airlines - flight-missing-passengers-under-investigation-australians-among-239-fe ared-dead/story-fnjjv9zk-1226849508778


They're streetlights.
 
2014-03-09 10:28:09 AM  

italie: BillArr: The more I hear about this the more I think that there was someone on that plane that the governments wanted dead.  There is no way with current technology that a major airliner can vanish without a trace...we can read a license plate from space, nobody is going to convince me that some lettered agency does not know exactly what happened to this plane.

Listen Luke,

While it's not impossible, this isn't an easy task. I know you used to bull's-eye womp rats in your t-16 back home and they're not much bigger than 2 meters. If you were to scale the area in which you were taking out womp rats to the size of the ocean search area, you'd probably be aiming for a 2 millimeter womp rat at the same distance.

If your Jedi skillz are still god at that scale, I will personally buy you a plane ticket so you can go help look.


Oh wait, are they saying they lost contact when it was over water now? I haven't been following the story day-to-day so I was working off the previous idea that the flight plan took it over the Vietnamese/Cambodian highlands.
 
2014-03-09 10:31:14 AM  

RandomRandom: shower_in_my_socks: WaPo also saying that as many as four people on the flight had fake IDs.

There's an automatic assumption that these fake passport holders were terrorists.
 

It's a lot more likely they were illegal immigrants.  A whole lot more likely.  Maybe a million times more likely.  Some were even booked through all the way to Europe.

A fake passport, a little luck, welcome to Europe.


Also, since they were continuing to Amsterdam, drug mules?
 
2014-03-09 10:33:16 AM  
At this point, given the total lack of finding anything definitive in terms of debris, I have to wonder if they're looking in entirely the wrong place.

Possibility 1:  Catastrophic failure that wiped out electronics and backups, but let the plane keep flying for a bit before crashing.  In this scenario, the pilots are flying blind with no radio in the dark, in a crippled jet until finally crashing.  I don't know how likely this is in a 777.

Possibility 2:  Hijacking (possibly with pilot/copilot involved) results in transponder and other outward data shut off, no radio call.  Plane is flown and ultimately crashed somewhere unexpected.  Probably pretty unlikely.

What else would cause a plane to disappear from radar at altitude and subsequently veer off course and not turn up somewhere?
 
2014-03-09 10:35:57 AM  

OnlyM3: OtherLittleGuy
2014-03-09 09:50:43 AM

super_grass: Welp, time for the TSA to ask for even more FREEDOM PAPERS at the airport.

Only for the poor and the blah. We trust the white rich people.
You honestly expected messiah hope-n-change to get the alphabets off the backs of the little people? It went from bush's idiotic "Take off your shoes" policy to "We're gonna grab you child's dick" under zero.


I'm going to start calling George W Bush "eight" because the first letter of his last name looks kind of like an 8

Clever, eh?
 
2014-03-09 10:36:06 AM  
ReutersAerospaceNews@ReutersAero
Prelim investigations into missing Malaysian plane are narrowing on possibility of mid-air disintegration - source


Yes, it's twitter, but it's Reuters.
 
2014-03-09 10:44:58 AM  

nekom: I'm seeing unconfirmed reports also that both passengers were no-shows and that their bags were either removed from the flight or there were no bags to load.  Lots of conflicting info out there.  It's quite possible this whole thing is just a red herring.


BBC World News said 5 passengers did not board and their luggage was consequently removed. I wonder how common it is for that many people to check bags but not get on the plane for whatever reason?
 
2014-03-09 10:47:44 AM  

GladGirl: BillArr: The more I hear about this the more I think that there was someone on that plane that the governments wanted dead.  There is no way with current technology that a major airliner can vanish without a trace...we can read a license plate from space, nobody is going to convince me that some lettered agency does not know exactly what happened to this plane.

There is a trace. A big trace. Huge oil slick. Planes can absolutely just stop responding, if they explode or nosedive. Check out other crashes on wiki if you dont believe me. This really isn't that weird. Hell, it took days and days to find that air france crash site in the Atlantic and two years to find the black boxes.


The spot where the oil slicks were found was only 150' deep. If it had crashed there, they would have found wreckage by now. Hell, Air France 447 crashed in 13,000' of water and they found wreckage the next day.
 
2014-03-09 10:57:01 AM  

Heron: italie: BillArr: The more I hear about this the more I think that there was someone on that plane that the governments wanted dead.  There is no way with current technology that a major airliner can vanish without a trace...we can read a license plate from space, nobody is going to convince me that some lettered agency does not know exactly what happened to this plane.

Listen Luke,

While it's not impossible, this isn't an easy task. I know you used to bull's-eye womp rats in your t-16 back home and they're not much bigger than 2 meters. If you were to scale the area in which you were taking out womp rats to the size of the ocean search area, you'd probably be aiming for a 2 millimeter womp rat at the same distance.

If your Jedi skillz are still god at that scale, I will personally buy you a plane ticket so you can go help look.

Oh wait, are they saying they lost contact when it was over water now? I haven't been following the story day-to-day so I was working off the previous idea that the flight plan took it over the Vietnamese/Cambodian highlands.


Heron: italie: BillArr: The more I hear about this the more I think that there was someone on that plane that the governments wanted dead.  There is no way with current technology that a major airliner can vanish without a trace...we can read a license plate from space, nobody is going to convince me that some lettered agency does not know exactly what happened to this plane.

Listen Luke,

While it's not impossible, this isn't an easy task. I know you used to bull's-eye womp rats in your t-16 back home and they're not much bigger than 2 meters. If you were to scale the area in which you were taking out womp rats to the size of the ocean search area, you'd probably be aiming for a 2 millimeter womp rat at the same distance.

If your Jedi skillz are still god at that scale, I will personally buy you a plane ticket so you can go help look.

Oh wait, are they saying they lost contact when it was over water now? I haven't been following the story day-to-day so I was working off the previous idea that the flight plan took it over the Vietnamese/Cambodian highlands.



They have been concentrating the search in the oceans for some reason, not sure why. FlightAware data would have put it down just inside of Kelantan in Malaysia. I have no idea how reliable that data currently is though.
 
2014-03-09 10:57:09 AM  

wxboy: At this point, given the total lack of finding anything definitive in terms of debris, I have to wonder if they're looking in entirely the wrong place.

Possibility 1:  Catastrophic failure that wiped out electronics and backups, but let the plane keep flying for a bit before crashing.  In this scenario, the pilots are flying blind with no radio in the dark, in a crippled jet until finally crashing.  I don't know how likely this is in a 777.

Possibility 2:  Hijacking (possibly with pilot/copilot involved) results in transponder and other outward data shut off, no radio call.  Plane is flown and ultimately crashed somewhere unexpected.  Probably pretty unlikely.

What else would cause a plane to disappear from radar at altitude and subsequently veer off course and not turn up somewhere?


The air France crash was egregious pilot error following sensor mishap. They flew her obliviously into the ocean. Better training would have prevented it.

Same with asiana at SFO. Seems like some pilots get too used to autopilot and misread things.
 
2014-03-09 11:03:44 AM  
I took the last coordinates from the flight tracker at FlightAware. The flight left Kuala Lumpur and was last tracked at those coordinates. Ca Mau peninsula is where the oil slicks were seen, probably 45-60 mins of flight time away (+-600km) from the last known location.

img.fark.net
 
2014-03-09 11:06:10 AM  

cyberbenali: I took the last coordinates from the flight tracker at FlightAware. The flight left Kuala Lumpur and was last tracked at those coordinates. Ca Mau peninsula is where the oil slicks were seen, probably 45-60 mins of flight time away (+-600km) from the last known location.


The flightaware data has already been deemed useless. Last contact with radar was over the ocean.
 
2014-03-09 11:07:16 AM  
The stolen and faked passport thing is really common place around the world.

Some countries (US, UK, Canada, Germany, etc.) are extraordinarily on top of passport security and control and others like Greece, Italy and Albania don't give two shiats about it...it's about 5,000th on their "things we care about list".

/found this out when we did an M&A of an Italian company
//35% of the worker documentation was stolen and forged
///mostly to evade taxes, BTW
 
2014-03-09 11:10:25 AM  
blog.chron.com
 
2014-03-09 11:11:46 AM  

texdent: EmmaLou: People fly with fake or stolen documents all the time. I'm pretty surprised it was only 2 on this flight.

If it was terrorism, I'm guessing a group would've claimed it by now.

Maybe they're all having a meeting together to discuss who should get the claim


Like a terrorist convention at the local Holiday Inn?  That wouldn't be suspicious at all.
 
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