If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(BBC-US)   Missing Malaysia Airlines flight may have turned back, and four passenger names have been given to intelligence agencies   (bbc.com) divider line 217
    More: Followup, Malaysia Airlines, Malaysia, intelligence  
•       •       •

12269 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Mar 2014 at 8:00 AM (40 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



217 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-03-09 01:16:54 AM  
WaPo also saying that as many as four people on the flight had fake IDs.
 
2014-03-09 03:40:05 AM  
Wow, were up to four now.
 
2014-03-09 04:07:28 AM  
'
 
2014-03-09 04:43:39 AM  

violentsalvation: Wow, were up to four now.


... and back down to two
 
2014-03-09 05:53:45 AM  
Turned back to WHERE!!?? Where are the transponders?

WHERE IS THE TELEMETRY??
 
2014-03-09 08:03:34 AM  
Someone's having fun with the remote control joystick. Where's Cheney?
 
2014-03-09 08:09:18 AM  
blog.chron.com
 
2014-03-09 08:11:49 AM  
img.fark.net
lol, wut?
 
2014-03-09 08:13:52 AM  
Sounds like the underwear bombers finally got their shiat together.
 
2014-03-09 08:14:32 AM  

shower_in_my_socks: WaPo also saying that as many as four people on the flight had fake IDs.


There's an automatic assumption that these fake passport holders were terrorists.
 

It's a lot more likely they were illegal immigrants.  A whole lot more likely.  Maybe a million times more likely.  Some were even booked through all the way to Europe.

A fake passport, a little luck, welcome to Europe.
 
2014-03-09 08:16:20 AM  
"Mr Hussein told a press conference that four names on the passenger list had been given to intelligence agencies to look at."

For future reference, please provide these names before  the plane takes off...thank you in advance.
 
2014-03-09 08:16:24 AM  
The more I hear about this the more I think that there was someone on that plane that the governments wanted dead.  There is no way with current technology that a major airliner can vanish without a trace...we can read a license plate from space, nobody is going to convince me that some lettered agency does not know exactly what happened to this plane.
 
2014-03-09 08:17:35 AM  
Did they forget the Columbian coffee?
 
2014-03-09 08:18:10 AM  
I suspect that two fake IDs is about average on a flight in some parts of the world.
 
2014-03-09 08:19:57 AM  

RandomRandom: shower_in_my_socks: WaPo also saying that as many as four people on the flight had fake IDs.

There's an automatic assumption that these fake passport holders were terrorists.
 

It's a lot more likely they were illegal immigrants.  A whole lot more likely.  Maybe a million times more likely.  Some were even booked through all the way to Europe.

A fake passport, a little luck, welcome to Europe.


I've been following this and the whole thing is weird. OMFG terrist is the automatic knee jerk response for some, but it does seem that the passports may have been stolen and used by people without proper travel documents. This has been known to happen.
 
2014-03-09 08:20:08 AM  

Kittypie070: Turned back to WHERE!!?? Where are the transponders?

WHERE IS THE TELEMETRY??


stream1.gifsoup.com
 
2014-03-09 08:20:14 AM  
Welp, time for the TSA to ask for even more FREEDOM PAPERS at the airport.
 
2014-03-09 08:21:15 AM  

pacochu: Did they forget the Columbian coffee?


www.wearysloth.com
Disapproves
 
2014-03-09 08:23:40 AM  
BillArr:
The more I hear about this the more I think that there was someone on that plane that the governments wanted dead.  There is no way with current technology that a major airliner can vanish without a trace...we can read a license plate from space, nobody is going to convince me that some lettered agency does not know exactly what happened to this plane.

While enticing, this hypothesis wildly fails on the grounds of too many unfounded assumptions.  It is much, much more likely that the aircraft had a technical failure and fell out of the sky into a big, big ocean.

After all... how many flights with multiple stolen-passport holders on board DON'T disappear?  We just don't ever hear about those ones.
 
2014-03-09 08:24:06 AM  
Wow,  subbys headline has just as much info in it as the article does,  neat.

O_o
 
2014-03-09 08:24:10 AM  

super_grass: Welp, time for the TSA to ask for even more FREEDOM PAPERS at the airport.


4.bp.blogspot.com
Papers? We don't need no stinking papers!
 
2014-03-09 08:24:46 AM  
CNN article says the two passengers with the stolen Italian and Austrian passports had tickets that were bought together. They were to go from Beijing to Amsterdam then split up, going to Copenhagen and Frankfort.
 
2014-03-09 08:24:48 AM  
http://news.163.com/14/0309/12/9MT5NSUU0001121M.html  (In Chinese) reporting that the Austrian and Italian phony passport people's ticket numbers were sequential, so I guess that means they bought them at the same time.
 
2014-03-09 08:26:43 AM  

Maturin: CNN article says the two passengers with the stolen Italian and Austrian passports had tickets that were bought together. They were to go from Beijing to Amsterdam then split up, going to Copenhagen and Frankfort.


And...?
 
2014-03-09 08:26:59 AM  

Maturin: CNN article says the two passengers with the stolen Italian and Austrian passports had tickets that were bought together. They were to go from Beijing to Amsterdam then split up, going to Copenhagen and Frankfort.


CNN picked that up now?  Also, that's a hell of a long way to get from Malaysia to western Europe.
 
2014-03-09 08:27:22 AM  

RandomRandom: shower_in_my_socks: WaPo also saying that as many as four people on the flight had fake IDs.

There's an automatic assumption that these fake passport holders were terrorists.
 

It's a lot more likely they were illegal immigrants.  A whole lot more likely.  Maybe a million times more likely.  Some were even booked through all the way to Europe.

A fake passport, a little luck, welcome to Europe.


Well, those four had a little bad luck.
 
2014-03-09 08:28:58 AM  
I'm seeing unconfirmed reports also that both passengers were no-shows and that their bags were either removed from the flight or there were no bags to load.  Lots of conflicting info out there.  It's quite possible this whole thing is just a red herring.
 
2014-03-09 08:29:05 AM  

BillArr: The more I hear about this the more I think that there was someone on that plane that the governments wanted dead.  There is no way with current technology that a major airliner can vanish without a trace...we can read a license plate from space, nobody is going to convince me that some lettered agency does not know exactly what happened to this plane.


There is a trace. A big trace. Huge oil slick. Planes can absolutely just stop responding, if they explode or nosedive. Check out other crashes on wiki if you dont believe me. This really isn't that weird. Hell, it took days and days to find that air france crash site in the Atlantic and two years to find the black boxes.
 
2014-03-09 08:29:42 AM  
They gave them four names?
s18.postimg.org
 
2014-03-09 08:30:25 AM  

Monkeyfark Ridiculous: Kittypie070: Turned back to WHERE!!?? Where are the transponders?

WHERE IS THE TELEMETRY??


/thread
 
2014-03-09 08:35:12 AM  
GladGirl:
There is a trace. A big trace. Huge oil slick. Planes can absolutely just stop responding, if they explode or nosedive. Check out other crashes on wiki if you dont believe me. This really isn't that weird. Hell, it took days and days to find that air france crash site in the Atlantic and two years to find the black boxes.

Some are saying that oil slick wasn't an oil slick.  This is much more shallow water than the Air France case, so assuming they locate the wreckage it won't be 2 years and they ought to be able to recover the CVR and FDR pretty quickly.  If it broke apart in mid air, there wouldn't be an oil slick, but there should be a scattered field of seats and other floating stuffs.
 
2014-03-09 08:35:38 AM  

BillArr: The more I hear about this the more I think that there was someone on that plane that the governments wanted dead.  There is no way with current technology that a major airliner can vanish without a trace...we can read a license plate from space, nobody is going to convince me that some lettered agency does not know exactly what happened to this plane.


"nobody is going to convince me" is a pretty closed minded response.  That's exactly what the anti vaxxers, truthers, young worlders, climate change deniers, politically correct proponents and that trans woman whose name I forgot say;  "nobody is going to convince me"

Good for you.
 
2014-03-09 08:36:35 AM  
 
2014-03-09 08:37:42 AM  
Throw EVERYONE in Gitmo.
/everyone
 
2014-03-09 08:38:37 AM  
What if it flew into anothrt dimension?
 
2014-03-09 08:38:50 AM  

pacochu: Did they forget the Columbian coffee?


Colombia. No U. Columbia is an arcane term for America (ie Washington, District of Columbia)
 
2014-03-09 08:46:36 AM  
They'll find the incriminating passports floating on the oil slick along with a red bandana.
 
2014-03-09 08:47:30 AM  

JoieD'Zen: Maturin: CNN article says the two passengers with the stolen Italian and Austrian passports had tickets that were bought together. They were to go from Beijing to Amsterdam then split up, going to Copenhagen and Frankfort.

And...?


Terrorists are notoriously parsimonious (according to the PSA) and the best way to get a thigh massage from the PSA is to buy a one-way ticket. If these two were hijackers or smuggled a bomb aboard they would not be so extravagant.
 
2014-03-09 08:48:48 AM  

nekom: Maturin: CNN article says the two passengers with the stolen Italian and Austrian passports had tickets that were bought together. They were to go from Beijing to Amsterdam then split up, going to Copenhagen and Frankfort.

CNN picked that up now?  Also, that's a hell of a long way to get from Malaysia to western Europe.


Not really, remember the earth is round and shortest route is close to poles, it's quite a normal route.
 
2014-03-09 08:49:18 AM  

Deep Contact: They'll find the incriminating passports floating on the oil slick along with a red bandana.


What?
1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-03-09 08:49:47 AM  
There is a sale at Penny's!
 
2014-03-09 08:51:51 AM  
bikkurikun:
Not really, remember the earth is round and shortest route is close to poles, it's quite a normal route.

Oh I didn't mean that flight's route was unusual, I mean why would one go from Kuala Lumpur to Frankfurt or Copenhagen by way of a connection in Beijing?  Wouldn't Lufthansa, Air France or KLM have a more direct route?  Of course it could be they were just the cheapest tickets they could find.  It remains entirely possible that these were just miscellaneous criminals, drug mules or illegal immigrants or whathaveyou, who had shiatty luck.
 
2014-03-09 08:56:34 AM  
nekom:
Some are saying that oil slick wasn't an oil slick.  This is much more shallow water than the Air France case, so assuming they locate the wreckage it won't be 2 years and they ought to be able to recover the CVR and FDR pretty quickly.  If it broke apart in mid air, there wouldn't be an oil slick, but there should be a scattered field of seats and other floating stuffs.

That's what I was thinking.  If it exploded or crashed wouldn't there be loads of debris floating indicating a general area of entry instead of just oil.  It's been a few days and we hear everything from mechanical nose diving to terrorists landing it in another country. It's not like this was a twin engine puddle jumper either, a 777 shouldn't take too long to find especially if not in one piece. Strange.
 
2014-03-09 08:57:45 AM  

susler: BillArr: The more I hear about this the more I think that there was someone on that plane that the governments wanted dead.  There is no way with current technology that a major airliner can vanish without a trace...we can read a license plate from space, nobody is going to convince me that some lettered agency does not know exactly what happened to this plane.

"nobody is going to convince me" is a pretty closed minded response.  That's exactly what the anti vaxxers, truthers, young worlders, climate change deniers, politically correct proponents and that trans woman whose name I forgot say;  "nobody is going to convince me"

Good for you.


It's amusing to watch threads get turned into liberal circle jerks and here is the first attempt in this thread.
 
2014-03-09 09:04:15 AM  
Anyone on TV with Hussein in their name always has bad news. Especially everyone from Illinois such as Pat Hussein Quinn, Barak Hussein O'Bama (he's Irish now) and Derrick Hussein Rose.
 
2014-03-09 09:05:16 AM  

coffeeplease: susler: BillArr: The more I hear about this the more I think that there was someone on that plane that the governments wanted dead.  There is no way with current technology that a major airliner can vanish without a trace...we can read a license plate from space, nobody is going to convince me that some lettered agency does not know exactly what happened to this plane.

"nobody is going to convince me" is a pretty closed minded response.  That's exactly what the anti vaxxers, truthers, young worlders, climate change deniers, politically correct proponents and that trans woman whose name I forgot say;  "nobody is going to convince me"

Good for you.

It's amusing to watch threads get turned into liberal circle jerks and here is the first attempt in this thread.


Dunno. That swipe against the trans community is going to cost him a few lib fair trade organic brownie points.
 
2014-03-09 09:05:54 AM  

themunsterfullback: It's been a few days and we hear everything from mechanical nose diving to terrorists landing it in another country. It's not like this was a twin engine puddle jumper either, a 777 shouldn't take too long to find especially if not in one piece. Strange.


I HIGHLY doubt it was hijacked and landed somewhere.  This isn't a piper cub you can put down in a corn field then hide in the barn, you need at least a mile long runway.  Speculation is always fun and of course without it what's the purpose of having a thread on it, but we're probably ALL going to turn out to be wrong.  This is a plane with a great safety record that just disappeared at cruising, generally the last time during a flight you'd expect problems.  In perfect weather, with no signs of distress or witnesses of explosion.  Obviously SOMETHING went catastrophically wrong.  My money is on either a terrorist bomb or something very important broke off and sent it into an uncontrollable dive.
 
2014-03-09 09:10:07 AM  
Is there any report of any anomaly in the area? I am suprised that no boat captain or pilot saw any thing. Isn't that area of the SCS fairly congested?
 
2014-03-09 09:11:11 AM  
img.fark.net
 
2014-03-09 09:11:43 AM  

nekom: My money is on either a terrorist bomb or something very important broke off and sent it into an uncontrollable dive.


Why can't these things crash into an orphanage full of blind kids, so at least we know what happened and don't have to do a sea search?
 
2014-03-09 09:12:42 AM  

susler: BillArr: The more I hear about this the more I think that there was someone on that plane that the governments wanted dead.  There is no way with current technology that a major airliner can vanish without a trace...we can read a license plate from space, nobody is going to convince me that some lettered agency does not know exactly what happened to this plane.

"nobody is going to convince me" is a pretty closed minded response.  That's exactly what the anti vaxxers, truthers, young worlders, climate change deniers, politically correct proponents and that trans woman whose name I forgot say;  "nobody is going to convince me"

Good for you.


If the government wants you dead, they certianly don't need to blow up a plane to do it.
Unles you think British spies strangle themselves and then zip themselves up in a suitcase and padlock the outside.

Or just pull a David Carradine on you. (The same David Carradine they pulled on David Carradine)
 
2014-03-09 09:12:55 AM  

Matthew Keene: nekom: My money is on either a terrorist bomb or something very important broke off and sent it into an uncontrollable dive.

Why can't these things crash into an orphanage full of blind kids, so at least we know what happened and don't have to do a sea search?


Why do you hate blind orphans?
 
2014-03-09 09:14:14 AM  
Have they checked the airport in Reno.
 
2014-03-09 09:22:33 AM  
What is human trafficking Alex?
 
2014-03-09 09:23:22 AM  

Deep Contact: They'll find the incriminating passports floating on the oil slick along with a red bandana.


Officer 1: "What's this red shiat?"
Officer 2: "A bandana"
Officer 1: "A what?"
Officer 2: "This shiat is bandana. B-A-N-D-A-N-A"
 
2014-03-09 09:23:44 AM  
This is what happens when people have too much freedom and liberalized passports.

You can't fake a stool sample while my hand is up your arse.
 
2014-03-09 09:28:19 AM  
experts even suggested a pilot purposely crashing the jet, because of the lack of distress call.
 
2014-03-09 09:29:11 AM  

Marcellinus: This is what happens when people have too much freedom and liberalized passports.

You can't fake a stool sample while my hand is up your arse.


Oh really?
 
2014-03-09 09:29:32 AM  
Couple of points.

The BBC article refers to a previous crash in which no fewer than ten people on board were subsequently found to be travelling on false documentation. So statistically speaking, this discovery does not appear to be unusual.

As to the lack of communication, the now extensive data about AF447 shows that three minutes elapsed between the time the pilot returned to the cabin because there were signs of trouble and the plane hitting the water. The crew made no announcement or call during that time, they spent it all trying to fathom out how to fly the plane, which was in fact stalled.

In summary: the complete radio silence is not at all unprecedented in the event of a catastrophic but not immediately destructive situation; a plane can go from crusing altitude to sea level in three minutes; terrorism is not required.

One scenario that fits with available knowledge at this point is that, say, a wingtip from the earlier repair job on the aircraft sheared off and hit the tailpiece, resulting in a loss of control. But this is complete speculation at this point.

It is suprising no trace has been found of the plane yet, though..
 
2014-03-09 09:32:26 AM  
At this point, if it had blown up, the sea would be littered with floating debris. If is is this hard to find, it must have been flown intact into the water.
 
2014-03-09 09:33:16 AM  
Dammit Obama when will you sheeple awaken. I'm getting my foil helmet.
 
2014-03-09 09:37:40 AM  

AngryDragon: Marcellinus: This is what happens when people have too much freedom and liberalized passports.

You can't fake a stool sample while my hand is up your arse.

Oh really?


You are just the type of person we need at the TSA.

If not for the children...won't you please think of the homeland.
 
2014-03-09 09:38:57 AM  
www.catholiclifeministries.org

The plane either turned back or it didn't. It either crashed or it didn't. All we really know is that we must invade Malaysia.
 
2014-03-09 09:42:18 AM  

nekom: I mean why would one go from Kuala Lumpur to Frankfurt or Copenhagen by way of a connection in Beijing?  Wouldn't Lufthansa, Air France or KLM have a more direct route?  Of course it could be they were just the cheapest tickets they could find.


Many of the western airlines flying out of KL provide their own security, because KL's airport security is subpar.  They probably figured (correctly) that they'd be more likely to get out on stolen passports on a Malaysia Airlines flight, then head to Europe from an airport where they're not going to get enhanced security procedures.  They just picked the wrong flight.

I may eat my words later, but to me this sounds like the most likely stolen passport scenario here.
 
2014-03-09 09:42:59 AM  
So we know  that at least 4 people were traveling with fake documents.  OK, how is it that we know, after the fact, that people were traveling with fake documents, but no one can seem to figure this out BEFORE they board the plane?
 
2014-03-09 09:45:49 AM  

robertus: pacochu: Did they forget the Columbian coffee?


Disapproves


Did they owe Lindo coffee money? You'll need to check with accounting.
 
2014-03-09 09:47:30 AM  

Munchkin City Coroner: [www.catholiclifeministries.org image 300x225]

The plane either turned back or it didn't. It either crashed or it didn't. All we really know is that we must invade Malaysia.


You mean Iraq. No matter what, we must invade Iraq. You know, 3rd times the charm and all.
 
2014-03-09 09:48:24 AM  
Seems pretty clear what happened here....

img2.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2014-03-09 09:50:43 AM  

super_grass: Welp, time for the TSA to ask for even more FREEDOM PAPERS at the airport.


Only for the poor and the blah. We trust the white rich people.
 
2014-03-09 09:52:00 AM  
Time travel
Lost scenario
Aliens
 
2014-03-09 09:52:13 AM  

Fissile: So we know  that at least 4 people were traveling with fake documents.  OK, how is it that we know, after the fact, that people were traveling with fake documents, but no one can seem to figure this out BEFORE they board the plane?


They found out about the first two by finding the people alive somewhere else.  If they discovered the other two in the same manner, well, it would be absolutely impossible to look up the millions of people who fly every day to see if they're existing somewhere other than the airport that day.
 
2014-03-09 09:55:46 AM  
OtherLittleGuy
2014-03-09 09:50:43 AM

super_grass: Welp, time for the TSA to ask for even more FREEDOM PAPERS at the airport.

Only for the poor and the blah. We trust the white rich people.

You honestly expected messiah hope-n-change to get the alphabets off the backs of the little people? It went from bush's idiotic "Take off your shoes" policy to "We're gonna grab you child's dick" under zero.
 
2014-03-09 09:56:40 AM  
I heard it was a problem with the left phalange.
 
2014-03-09 09:57:28 AM  

nekom: Oh I didn't mean that flight's route was unusual, I mean why would one go from Kuala Lumpur to Frankfurt or Copenhagen by way of a connection in Beijing?  Wouldn't Lufthansa, Air France or KLM have a more direct route?  Of course it could be they were just the cheapest tickets they could find.


The cheaper option probably. I can fly direct to see my relatives, but if I take an extra 2-hour bus ride to a different airport to take a flight with a short layover, I only pay 33% of what that direct flight would be. Plus a lot of routes go through one of the big hub airports. I know a lot of people who get layovers in Amsterdam for this reason.
 
2014-03-09 09:59:19 AM  
 
2014-03-09 09:59:27 AM  
it was aliens. duh.
 
2014-03-09 10:10:53 AM  
WSJ reporting a piece of tail and composite inner door have been spotted by a Vietnamese aircraft.
 
2014-03-09 10:12:00 AM  

utah dude: it was aliens. duh.


www.adweek.com
 
2014-03-09 10:13:30 AM  
People fly with fake or stolen documents all the time. I'm pretty surprised it was only 2 on this flight.

If it was terrorism, I'm guessing a group would've claimed it by now.
 
2014-03-09 10:16:57 AM  

BillArr: The more I hear about this the more I think that there was someone on that plane that the governments wanted dead.  There is no way with current technology that a major airliner can vanish without a trace...we can read a license plate from space, nobody is going to convince me that some lettered agency does not know exactly what happened to this plane.


Listen Luke,

While it's not impossible, this isn't an easy task. I know you used to bull's-eye womp rats in your t-16 back home and they're not much bigger than 2 meters. If you were to scale the area in which you were taking out womp rats to the size of the ocean search area, you'd probably be aiming for a 2 millimeter womp rat at the same distance.

If your Jedi skillz are still god at that scale, I will personally buy you a plane ticket so you can go help look.
 
2014-03-09 10:17:09 AM  
 
2014-03-09 10:17:40 AM  

EmmaLou: People fly with fake or stolen documents all the time. I'm pretty surprised it was only 2 on this flight.

If it was terrorism, I'm guessing a group would've claimed it by now.


Maybe they're all having a meeting together to discuss who should get the claim
 
2014-03-09 10:17:51 AM  
I read an article somewhere on the innerwebs Friday about a SCS territorial dispute. During such time, what is the plausibility that a plane with no communications (can't say don't shoot) is shot down as a UFO by one of the countries involved in said dispute?

And, if the search and rescue teams hail from several countries involved in said dispute, what is their motivation to confirm or deny wreckage?

/puts on tinfoil hat
 
2014-03-09 10:19:43 AM  

robertus: pacochu: Did they forget the Columbian coffee?


Disapproves


Coffee buying is a dangerous business...
 
2014-03-09 10:21:45 AM  

BillArr: The more I hear about this the more I think that there was someone on that plane that the governments wanted dead.  There is no way with current technology that a major airliner can vanish without a trace...we can read a license plate from space, nobody is going to convince me that some lettered agency does not know exactly what happened to this plane.


I had a bit of a paranoid moment when I first heard about this, where I considered the plane's disappearance may have been engineered by the Chinese as a casus belli with Vietnam. The US is distracted with Ukraine right now, making it the perfect time for the Chinese to take some sucker-punches at the ring of alliances and mutual-defense pacts the US is trying to engineer in the Asian Pacific to counter China's concentrated strength. So they sneak a bomber on the plan, blow it up over Vietnam or Cambodia, insist it was "Vietnamese anti-air missiles" what did it, then start waving the bloody shirt over the dead Chinese citizens on board.

However, I quickly realized this is a pretty ridiculous idea. Airline-industry maintenance standards are certainly not what they should be, and I wouldn't be surprised to hear the company that owned this plane was skimping in that regard. The plane could have fallen out of the sky due to mech failure and, given the dense, isolated terrain it was flying over, it could be weeks or months before the crash site is found. And there's still the optimistic possibility that this was a hijacking and that the passengers are ostensibly "safe" for the moment. Maybe the NK regime is getting back into the mass international kidnapping game? God knows they need the labor given the last decade of engineered famine over there.

I think it'd be better to wait for the investigation, rather than start spinning crazy stories about this.
 
2014-03-09 10:25:38 AM  

Agarista: pic of floating object  http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/travel/travel-news/malaysia-airlines - flight-missing-passengers-under-investigation-australians-among-239-fe ared-dead/story-fnjjv9zk-1226849508778


They're streetlights.
 
2014-03-09 10:28:09 AM  

italie: BillArr: The more I hear about this the more I think that there was someone on that plane that the governments wanted dead.  There is no way with current technology that a major airliner can vanish without a trace...we can read a license plate from space, nobody is going to convince me that some lettered agency does not know exactly what happened to this plane.

Listen Luke,

While it's not impossible, this isn't an easy task. I know you used to bull's-eye womp rats in your t-16 back home and they're not much bigger than 2 meters. If you were to scale the area in which you were taking out womp rats to the size of the ocean search area, you'd probably be aiming for a 2 millimeter womp rat at the same distance.

If your Jedi skillz are still god at that scale, I will personally buy you a plane ticket so you can go help look.


Oh wait, are they saying they lost contact when it was over water now? I haven't been following the story day-to-day so I was working off the previous idea that the flight plan took it over the Vietnamese/Cambodian highlands.
 
2014-03-09 10:31:14 AM  

RandomRandom: shower_in_my_socks: WaPo also saying that as many as four people on the flight had fake IDs.

There's an automatic assumption that these fake passport holders were terrorists.
 

It's a lot more likely they were illegal immigrants.  A whole lot more likely.  Maybe a million times more likely.  Some were even booked through all the way to Europe.

A fake passport, a little luck, welcome to Europe.


Also, since they were continuing to Amsterdam, drug mules?
 
2014-03-09 10:33:16 AM  
At this point, given the total lack of finding anything definitive in terms of debris, I have to wonder if they're looking in entirely the wrong place.

Possibility 1:  Catastrophic failure that wiped out electronics and backups, but let the plane keep flying for a bit before crashing.  In this scenario, the pilots are flying blind with no radio in the dark, in a crippled jet until finally crashing.  I don't know how likely this is in a 777.

Possibility 2:  Hijacking (possibly with pilot/copilot involved) results in transponder and other outward data shut off, no radio call.  Plane is flown and ultimately crashed somewhere unexpected.  Probably pretty unlikely.

What else would cause a plane to disappear from radar at altitude and subsequently veer off course and not turn up somewhere?
 
2014-03-09 10:35:57 AM  

OnlyM3: OtherLittleGuy
2014-03-09 09:50:43 AM

super_grass: Welp, time for the TSA to ask for even more FREEDOM PAPERS at the airport.

Only for the poor and the blah. We trust the white rich people.
You honestly expected messiah hope-n-change to get the alphabets off the backs of the little people? It went from bush's idiotic "Take off your shoes" policy to "We're gonna grab you child's dick" under zero.


I'm going to start calling George W Bush "eight" because the first letter of his last name looks kind of like an 8

Clever, eh?
 
2014-03-09 10:36:06 AM  
ReutersAerospaceNews@ReutersAero
Prelim investigations into missing Malaysian plane are narrowing on possibility of mid-air disintegration - source


Yes, it's twitter, but it's Reuters.
 
2014-03-09 10:44:58 AM  

nekom: I'm seeing unconfirmed reports also that both passengers were no-shows and that their bags were either removed from the flight or there were no bags to load.  Lots of conflicting info out there.  It's quite possible this whole thing is just a red herring.


BBC World News said 5 passengers did not board and their luggage was consequently removed. I wonder how common it is for that many people to check bags but not get on the plane for whatever reason?
 
2014-03-09 10:47:44 AM  

GladGirl: BillArr: The more I hear about this the more I think that there was someone on that plane that the governments wanted dead.  There is no way with current technology that a major airliner can vanish without a trace...we can read a license plate from space, nobody is going to convince me that some lettered agency does not know exactly what happened to this plane.

There is a trace. A big trace. Huge oil slick. Planes can absolutely just stop responding, if they explode or nosedive. Check out other crashes on wiki if you dont believe me. This really isn't that weird. Hell, it took days and days to find that air france crash site in the Atlantic and two years to find the black boxes.


The spot where the oil slicks were found was only 150' deep. If it had crashed there, they would have found wreckage by now. Hell, Air France 447 crashed in 13,000' of water and they found wreckage the next day.
 
2014-03-09 10:57:01 AM  

Heron: italie: BillArr: The more I hear about this the more I think that there was someone on that plane that the governments wanted dead.  There is no way with current technology that a major airliner can vanish without a trace...we can read a license plate from space, nobody is going to convince me that some lettered agency does not know exactly what happened to this plane.

Listen Luke,

While it's not impossible, this isn't an easy task. I know you used to bull's-eye womp rats in your t-16 back home and they're not much bigger than 2 meters. If you were to scale the area in which you were taking out womp rats to the size of the ocean search area, you'd probably be aiming for a 2 millimeter womp rat at the same distance.

If your Jedi skillz are still god at that scale, I will personally buy you a plane ticket so you can go help look.

Oh wait, are they saying they lost contact when it was over water now? I haven't been following the story day-to-day so I was working off the previous idea that the flight plan took it over the Vietnamese/Cambodian highlands.


Heron: italie: BillArr: The more I hear about this the more I think that there was someone on that plane that the governments wanted dead.  There is no way with current technology that a major airliner can vanish without a trace...we can read a license plate from space, nobody is going to convince me that some lettered agency does not know exactly what happened to this plane.

Listen Luke,

While it's not impossible, this isn't an easy task. I know you used to bull's-eye womp rats in your t-16 back home and they're not much bigger than 2 meters. If you were to scale the area in which you were taking out womp rats to the size of the ocean search area, you'd probably be aiming for a 2 millimeter womp rat at the same distance.

If your Jedi skillz are still god at that scale, I will personally buy you a plane ticket so you can go help look.

Oh wait, are they saying they lost contact when it was over water now? I haven't been following the story day-to-day so I was working off the previous idea that the flight plan took it over the Vietnamese/Cambodian highlands.



They have been concentrating the search in the oceans for some reason, not sure why. FlightAware data would have put it down just inside of Kelantan in Malaysia. I have no idea how reliable that data currently is though.
 
2014-03-09 10:57:09 AM  

wxboy: At this point, given the total lack of finding anything definitive in terms of debris, I have to wonder if they're looking in entirely the wrong place.

Possibility 1:  Catastrophic failure that wiped out electronics and backups, but let the plane keep flying for a bit before crashing.  In this scenario, the pilots are flying blind with no radio in the dark, in a crippled jet until finally crashing.  I don't know how likely this is in a 777.

Possibility 2:  Hijacking (possibly with pilot/copilot involved) results in transponder and other outward data shut off, no radio call.  Plane is flown and ultimately crashed somewhere unexpected.  Probably pretty unlikely.

What else would cause a plane to disappear from radar at altitude and subsequently veer off course and not turn up somewhere?


The air France crash was egregious pilot error following sensor mishap. They flew her obliviously into the ocean. Better training would have prevented it.

Same with asiana at SFO. Seems like some pilots get too used to autopilot and misread things.
 
2014-03-09 11:03:44 AM  
I took the last coordinates from the flight tracker at FlightAware. The flight left Kuala Lumpur and was last tracked at those coordinates. Ca Mau peninsula is where the oil slicks were seen, probably 45-60 mins of flight time away (+-600km) from the last known location.

img.fark.net
 
2014-03-09 11:06:10 AM  

cyberbenali: I took the last coordinates from the flight tracker at FlightAware. The flight left Kuala Lumpur and was last tracked at those coordinates. Ca Mau peninsula is where the oil slicks were seen, probably 45-60 mins of flight time away (+-600km) from the last known location.


The flightaware data has already been deemed useless. Last contact with radar was over the ocean.
 
2014-03-09 11:07:16 AM  
The stolen and faked passport thing is really common place around the world.

Some countries (US, UK, Canada, Germany, etc.) are extraordinarily on top of passport security and control and others like Greece, Italy and Albania don't give two shiats about it...it's about 5,000th on their "things we care about list".

/found this out when we did an M&A of an Italian company
//35% of the worker documentation was stolen and forged
///mostly to evade taxes, BTW
 
2014-03-09 11:10:25 AM  
blog.chron.com
 
2014-03-09 11:11:46 AM  

texdent: EmmaLou: People fly with fake or stolen documents all the time. I'm pretty surprised it was only 2 on this flight.

If it was terrorism, I'm guessing a group would've claimed it by now.

Maybe they're all having a meeting together to discuss who should get the claim


Like a terrorist convention at the local Holiday Inn?  That wouldn't be suspicious at all.
 
2014-03-09 11:15:05 AM  

Coach_J: The stolen and faked passport thing is really common place around the world.

Some countries (US, UK, Canada, Germany, etc.) are extraordinarily on top of passport security and control and others like Greece, Italy and Albania don't give two shiats about it...it's about 5,000th on their "things we care about list".

/found this out when we did an M&A of an Italian company
//35% of the worker documentation was stolen and forged
///mostly to evade taxes, BTW


It would be interesting to know if either of the stolen passports were used prior to this.  Presumably, the only way to check that is to get a travel history from the legitimate holders and check it against passport control history.

If they have been used often in the past (which is certainly possible, they wouldn't have been noticed this time but for the crash), that would to me suggest "not terrorism".
 
2014-03-09 11:16:28 AM  

nekom: ReutersAerospaceNews@ReutersAero
Prelim investigations into missing Malaysian plane are narrowing on possibility of mid-air disintegration - source


Yes, it's twitter, but it's Reuters.


wouldn't midair disintegration leave an enormous debris field?

/no snark -  serious question
 
2014-03-09 11:17:46 AM  
Why don't they give the intelligence agencies ALL the names of the people on the plane.   The names of the fake passports are sorta useless in finding out what the name of the person that used them is.  They should be giving them the photos or other descriptions of the people with fake passports.
 
2014-03-09 11:18:50 AM  

elvisaintdead: nekom: ReutersAerospaceNews@ReutersAero
Prelim investigations into missing Malaysian plane are narrowing on possibility of mid-air disintegration - source


Yes, it's twitter, but it's Reuters.

wouldn't midair disintegration leave an enormous debris field?

/no snark -  serious question


I would have thought so.  If it happened at FL350 though, that would scatter things considerably but you'd think planes would be seeing all manner of seats and other floating wreckage.  I don't think anything, mechanical or bomb, would be capable of vaporizing everything.
 
2014-03-09 11:20:00 AM  

EponymousCowHerd: cyberbenali: I took the last coordinates from the flight tracker at FlightAware. The flight left Kuala Lumpur and was last tracked at those coordinates. Ca Mau peninsula is where the oil slicks were seen, probably 45-60 mins of flight time away (+-600km) from the last known location.

The flightaware data has already been deemed useless. Last contact with radar was over the ocean.



Second that. Just looked at last flights, seem they all lose ADS-B right around the time the missing plane did, and don't pick it up again for quite some time. That starts to explain a lot of the confusion as to where the plane is.
 
2014-03-09 11:23:01 AM  
cdnl.complex.com
 
2014-03-09 11:24:06 AM  

italie: EponymousCowHerd: cyberbenali: I took the last coordinates from the flight tracker at FlightAware. The flight left Kuala Lumpur and was last tracked at those coordinates. Ca Mau peninsula is where the oil slicks were seen, probably 45-60 mins of flight time away (+-600km) from the last known location.

The flightaware data has already been deemed useless. Last contact with radar was over the ocean.


Second that. Just looked at last flights, seem they all lose ADS-B right around the time the missing plane did, and don't pick it up again for quite some time. That starts to explain a lot of the confusion as to where the plane is.


Only for people who think Flightaware is an authoritative source for airplane location data. The people leading the search have more information than Flightaware does
 
2014-03-09 11:29:31 AM  
I had a crazy take off a few days ago in krabi, Thailand and I was already uneasy about my remainder flights to get home. 4 more to go over the next 2 weeks.
Does the black box not have GPS or some sort of locator beacon?
 
2014-03-09 11:32:25 AM  
Still the worst movie I have ever sat through in its entirety.

iv1.lisimg.com

The freeze frame, jumping ending made it even more epic.

2.bp.blogspot.com

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfV3wPmyS_w
 
2014-03-09 11:32:40 AM  
When planes are at the edge of the range for radar and they bank, sometimes they provide a stronger return signal so the radar has a more accurate position.  This can make it look like a plane is turning back when it is only the radar just is getting a better fix on the plane.

There might be sats or ground stations that were listening to the data stream which should have GPS coordinates but if they weren't official sources, it might take a few days for that data to get out.  Also most of the data being sent by planes seems to be status reports of their toilets.
 
2014-03-09 11:32:47 AM  
Just a friendly fyi for you guys speculating.

This hull (9M-MRO)is the same hull that was involved in an incident on 09AUG2012.

During taxing at Shanghai this aircraft left a large section of it's starboard wing on another aircraft due to bad parking. The damage was considered severe and the aircraft was repaired.

This has to be the leading cause of the catastrophic failure at this point, as this is the only thing we have to go on.

Incident rundown here: http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=147571
 
2014-03-09 11:32:56 AM  
I just hope Hulk Hogan isn't responsible. He already caused 9/11, another one would just be too much
 
2014-03-09 11:37:19 AM  

You are Borg: Does the black box not have GPS or some sort of locator beacon?


Yes, the black box will transmitter that sends a local signal so it can be found above land or under water but sometimes it takes a while to find them under water.  The plane should have several other beacons and one of them should go off on a crash and they should have a GPS in them and transmit an ID locked to the plane.  Each life raft should also have one.  If they had been activated, they would have a position by now.
 
2014-03-09 11:40:56 AM  
If it turns out to be a terrorist attack (and I think it will)--that would be a lot of dead Chinese at the hands of the Religion of Peace™ recently.
 
2014-03-09 11:41:04 AM  
This is what happens when you start messing with time. (Daylight Savings Time)
 
2014-03-09 11:46:08 AM  

BravadoGT: If it turns out to be a terrorist attack (and I think it will)--that would be a lot of dead Chinese at the hands of the Religion of Peace™ recently.


You really think it is more likely to be a terrorist attack, with no claim of responsibility, than a bad repair on an aircraft that was severely damaged?
 
2014-03-09 11:49:02 AM  

Spacman: BravadoGT: If it turns out to be a terrorist attack (and I think it will)--that would be a lot of dead Chinese at the hands of the Religion of Peace™ recently.

You really think it is more likely to be a terrorist attack, with no claim of responsibility, than a bad repair on an aircraft that was severely damaged?


I don't see how a damaged wing could result in a failure that resulted in:
1) No mayday call.
2) Virtually no floating debris.

I don't think terrorism is an explanation either.
 
2014-03-09 11:53:38 AM  

DON.MAC: You are Borg: Does the black box not have GPS or some sort of locator beacon?

Yes, the black box will transmitter that sends a local signal so it can be found above land or under water but sometimes it takes a while to find them under water.  The plane should have several other beacons and one of them should go off on a crash and they should have a GPS in them and transmit an ID locked to the plane.  Each life raft should also have one.  If they had been activated, they would have a position by now.


Thanks!
 
2014-03-09 11:54:11 AM  

nekom: elvisaintdead: nekom: ReutersAerospaceNews@ReutersAero
Prelim investigations into missing Malaysian plane are narrowing on possibility of mid-air disintegration - source


Yes, it's twitter, but it's Reuters.

wouldn't midair disintegration leave an enormous debris field?

/no snark -  serious question

I would have thought so.  If it happened at FL350 though, that would scatter things considerably but you'd think planes would be seeing all manner of seats and other floating wreckage.  I don't think anything, mechanical or bomb, would be capable of vaporizing everything.


exactly.
and if it augured in, wouldn't there have been some sort of "oh shiat" message from the cockpit, and/or 200+ cell phones lighting up (service or not)?  which leads us back to the big go-boom and the debris field...

riding a fuselage for 5-6 mins all the way down to your absolute death is a certain hell unto itself.  *shudder*
 
2014-03-09 11:54:20 AM  
EponymousCowHerd:

AF447 hit the water intact. No mayday call. The crew were too busy trying to fly the thing. The absence of debris - so far - is odd but as many people have said, the ocean is a big place.
 
2014-03-09 11:54:42 AM  

EponymousCowHerd: Spacman: BravadoGT: If it turns out to be a terrorist attack (and I think it will)--that would be a lot of dead Chinese at the hands of the Religion of Peace™ recently.

You really think it is more likely to be a terrorist attack, with no claim of responsibility, than a bad repair on an aircraft that was severely damaged?

I don't see how a damaged wing could result in a failure that resulted in:
1) No mayday call.
2) Virtually no floating debris.

I don't think terrorism is an explanation either.


An aircraft ripping off a part of its wing and being repaired badly is, at the moment, the most likely scenario we have. Check out JAL123 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Airlines_Flight_123  it is a great example of shoddy repairs leading to a catastrophic failure years down the line.
 
2014-03-09 11:56:50 AM  
Elvisaintdead:

From what I understand of AF447, it's quite possible that passebgers didn't even know they were doomed until they hit the water. They may have just thought they were in bad turbulence.
 
2014-03-09 11:57:17 AM  

Coach_J: The stolen and faked passport thing is really common place around the world.

Some countries (US, UK, Canada, Germany, etc.) are extraordinarily on top of passport security and control and others like Greece, Italy and Albania don't give two shiats about it...it's about 5,000th on their "things we care about list".

/found this out when we did an M&A of an Italian company
//35% of the worker documentation was stolen and forged
///mostly to evade taxes, BTW


Yeah, but, one was an Australian passport!  Isn't that a hot bead of extremism, beer drinking and snake biting (don't even mention the farking spiders).  Without proper security, he probably smuggled a sheila and a barbie on board, and that was all she wrote.
 
2014-03-09 12:02:41 PM  

Fissile: So we know  that at least 4 people were traveling with fake documents.  OK, how is it that we know, after the fact, that people were traveling with fake documents, but no one can seem to figure this out BEFORE they board the plane?


Because people are lazy.

/seriously.
 
2014-03-09 12:03:19 PM  

Purdue_Pete: Still the worst movie I have ever sat through in its entirety.

[iv1.lisimg.com image 500x375]

The freeze frame, jumping ending made it even more epic.

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 259x194]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfV3wPmyS_w


It was stupid, with a stupid filling, covered with a nice stupid frosting and a stupid cherry on to top.  The guy in the yellow shirt, appears to be running in the most stupid way possible, to keep with the stupid theme of the movie.
 
2014-03-09 12:05:56 PM  
What if it was the four people with illegal passports plotting to hijack a plane and a badly repaired wing from almost 2 years ago struck down their chances at 72 virgins?

The universe has a way of course-correcting things.
 
2014-03-09 12:08:00 PM  

wxboy: Fissile: So we know  that at least 4 people were traveling with fake documents.  OK, how is it that we know, after the fact, that people were traveling with fake documents, but no one can seem to figure this out BEFORE they board the plane?

They found out about the first two by finding the people alive somewhere else.  If they discovered the other two in the same manner, well, it would be absolutely impossible to look up the millions of people who fly every day to see if they're existing somewhere other than the airport that day.


You missed the part where Interpol is dismayed because almost no one avails themselves of their database. The passports where reported stolen months before.
 
2014-03-09 12:12:02 PM  

SithLord: What if it was the four people with illegal passports plotting to hijack a plane and a badly repaired wing from almost 2 years ago struck down their chances at 72 virgins?

The universe has a way of course-correcting things.


Yeah, like that A380 that blew an engine trying to kill Austrians or Australians (I forget) because they are farked up people.
 
2014-03-09 12:13:49 PM  

cyberbenali: I took the last coordinates from the flight tracker at FlightAware. The flight left Kuala Lumpur and was last tracked at those coordinates. Ca Mau peninsula is where the oil slicks were seen, probably 45-60 mins of flight time away (+-600km) from the last known location.

[img.fark.net image 850x457]


Another report stated the slicks were seen ay Tho Chu, a group of islands in the Gulf of Thailand.
 
2014-03-09 12:14:02 PM  

Spacman: EponymousCowHerd: Spacman: BravadoGT: If it turns out to be a terrorist attack (and I think it will)--that would be a lot of dead Chinese at the hands of the Religion of Peace™ recently.

You really think it is more likely to be a terrorist attack, with no claim of responsibility, than a bad repair on an aircraft that was severely damaged?

I don't see how a damaged wing could result in a failure that resulted in:
1) No mayday call.
2) Virtually no floating debris.

I don't think terrorism is an explanation either.

An aircraft ripping off a part of its wing and being repaired badly is, at the moment, the most likely scenario we have. Check out JAL123 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Airlines_Flight_123  it is a great example of shoddy repairs leading to a catastrophic failure years down the line.


If the wing had failed suddenly at 35,000 feet, the turbulence from the drop would have ripped the plane apart.  If the plane was sufficiently intact to prevent a lot of floating debris, it is hard to see how a wing failure could have prevented the pilots from activating a distress beacon at least.

Honestly, an EgyptAir 990-type scenario seems more likely.
 
2014-03-09 12:19:56 PM  

BravadoGT: If it turns out to be a terrorist attack (and I think it will)--that would be a lot of dead Chinese at the hands of the Religion of Peace™ recently.


You want it to be a terrorist attack to fit your political agenda. Stay classy
 
2014-03-09 12:22:23 PM  
elvisaintdead:
and if it augured in, wouldn't there have been some sort of "oh shiat" message from the cockpit, and/or 200+ cell phones lighting up (service or not)?  which leads us back to the big go-boom and the debris field...

riding a fuselage for 5-6 mins all the way down to your absolute death is a certain hell unto itself.  *shudder*


I'm sure that would be an inconceivable hell.  But don't assume they would necessarily have time for a distress message.  The priorities of flying are, in this order:  Aviate, navigate, communicate.  If you're fighting to regain control of a doomed aircraft, it may not be top priority to radio someone to let them know just how farked you are.  Like "Hey, air traffic control, we're boned.  Really boned.  You can't help us, but we thought we'd take the time to let you know we're like ROYALLY screwed here.  Over."
 
2014-03-09 12:24:15 PM  
EponymousCowHerd:

If the wing had failed suddenly at 35,000 feet, the turbulence from the drop would have ripped the plane apart.  If the plane was sufficiently intact to prevent a lot of floating debris, it is hard to see how a wing failure could have prevented the pilots from activating a distress beacon at least.

Honestly, an EgyptAir 990-type scenario seems more likely.


Right. What distress beacon are the pilots activating exactly? I have no idea where you got that info from.

The drill in an emergency is Aviate, Navigate, Communicate. In that order. In an emergency your primary responsibility is flying it, then figuring out where you are, a very far third is talking to people because, you know, they can't help you.

The automated beacons are switched on automatically by a more than 2.3g event (crash) or contact with water.

Pilots don't do that. They can squawk an emergency code if they have time, they don't activate shiat. It's automatic.
 
2014-03-09 12:26:06 PM  

Spacman: EponymousCowHerd: Spacman: BravadoGT: If it turns out to be a terrorist attack (and I think it will)--that would be a lot of dead Chinese at the hands of the Religion of Peace™ recently.

You really think it is more likely to be a terrorist attack, with no claim of responsibility, than a bad repair on an aircraft that was severely damaged?

I don't see how a damaged wing could result in a failure that resulted in:
1) No mayday call.
2) Virtually no floating debris.

I don't think terrorism is an explanation either.

An aircraft ripping off a part of its wing and being repaired badly is, at the moment, the most likely scenario we have. Check out JAL123 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Airlines_Flight_123  it is a great example of shoddy repairs leading to a catastrophic failure years down the line.


I find that unlikely. First of all, I doubt it would lead to an entire loss of the wing, and the pilots would likely have had time to communicate, and possibly save the plane. Secondly, if it did lead to an immediate loss of an entire wing, that plane would have come down in pieces. This leads us to the debris field question. They knew about where the plane was and after 24 hours nothing? Except for possible reports of a door and tail piece.

Chances are that the plane was flown into the ocean relatively intact. Without time to radio a distress call, or the radios were disabled, or the pilots were disabled, or it was pilot suicide. Or it was a bungled hijacking. Or a successful hijacking and the plane is in NK.

The whole thing is just bizarre.
 
2014-03-09 12:34:20 PM  

Spacman: EponymousCowHerd:

If the wing had failed suddenly at 35,000 feet, the turbulence from the drop would have ripped the plane apart.  If the plane was sufficiently intact to prevent a lot of floating debris, it is hard to see how a wing failure could have prevented the pilots from activating a distress beacon at least.

Honestly, an EgyptAir 990-type scenario seems more likely.

Right. What distress beacon are the pilots activating exactly? I have no idea where you got that info from.

The drill in an emergency is Aviate, Navigate, Communicate. In that order. In an emergency your primary responsibility is flying it, then figuring out where you are, a very far third is talking to people because, you know, they can't help you.

The automated beacons are switched on automatically by a more than 2.3g event (crash) or contact with water.

Pilots don't do that. They can squawk an emergency code if they have time, they don't activate shiat. It's automatic.


My apologies if I made a slight error, but there are transponders that allow an emergency signal to be sent by the pilots.  That is one of the ways the pilots can send a discrete signal to indicate a hijacking.
 
2014-03-09 12:35:20 PM  
Just saw this on twitter.
Are we sure it went down over water?
 
2014-03-09 12:35:30 PM  

Spacman: Just a friendly fyi for you guys speculating.

This hull (9M-MRO)is the same hull that was involved in an incident on 09AUG2012.

During taxing at Shanghai this aircraft left a large section of it's starboard wing on another aircraft due to bad parking. The damage was considered severe and the aircraft was repaired.

This has to be the leading cause of the catastrophic failure at this point, as this is the only thing we have to go on.

Incident rundown here: http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=147571


So...the airplane equivalent of buying a used car with a salvage title, eh? This is very bad news for the unlucky passengers and crew that happened to be onboard when the "repairs" failed.

Good news for the rest of us, though. Nice, clear-cut explanation.
 
2014-03-09 12:36:42 PM  

powhound: Spacman: EponymousCowHerd: Spacman: BravadoGT: If it turns out to be a terrorist attack (and I think it will)--that would be a lot of dead Chinese at the hands of the Religion of Peace™ recently.

You really think it is more likely to be a terrorist attack, with no claim of responsibility, than a bad repair on an aircraft that was severely damaged?

I don't see how a damaged wing could result in a failure that resulted in:
1) No mayday call.
2) Virtually no floating debris.

I don't think terrorism is an explanation either.

An aircraft ripping off a part of its wing and being repaired badly is, at the moment, the most likely scenario we have. Check out JAL123 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Airlines_Flight_123  it is a great example of shoddy repairs leading to a catastrophic failure years down the line.

I find that unlikely. First of all, I doubt it would lead to an entire loss of the wing, and the pilots would likely have had time to communicate, and possibly save the plane. Secondly, if it did lead to an immediate loss of an entire wing, that plane would have come down in pieces. This leads us to the debris field question. They knew about where the plane was and after 24 hours nothing? Except for possible reports of a door and tail piece.

Chances are that the plane was flown into the ocean relatively intact. Without time to radio a distress call, or the radios were disabled, or the pilots were disabled, or it was pilot suicide. Or it was a bungled hijacking. Or a successful hijacking and the plane is in NK.

The whole thing is just bizarre.


Some time in the next 18 months to two years a full, complete and comprehensive accident report by the NTSB (as the US will report as the country of manufacture of the aircraft) will come out.

Anything said before that is complete and utter bullshiat, you don't have the facts.
 
2014-03-09 12:36:48 PM  

EmmaLou: If it was terrorism, I'm guessing a group would've claimed it by now.


As I mentioned in another thread, planes have been blown up in the past without anyone claiming responsibility. Air India 182 was one example, but there are others on this list where the bombers were only identified through criminal investigations (and some which are still unsolved). Those may be examples of "wanting people dead" rather than "terrorism", but the end result is the same.
 
2014-03-09 12:40:12 PM  
Spacman:

Anything said before that is complete and utter bullshiat, you don't have the facts.

Neither do you, dumbass.
 
2014-03-09 12:41:09 PM  

EponymousCowHerd: italie: EponymousCowHerd: cyberbenali: I took the last coordinates from the flight tracker at FlightAware. The flight left Kuala Lumpur and was last tracked at those coordinates. Ca Mau peninsula is where the oil slicks were seen, probably 45-60 mins of flight time away (+-600km) from the last known location.

The flightaware data has already been deemed useless. Last contact with radar was over the ocean.


Second that. Just looked at last flights, seem they all lose ADS-B right around the time the missing plane did, and don't pick it up again for quite some time. That starts to explain a lot of the confusion as to where the plane is.

Only for people who think Flightaware is an authoritative source for airplane location data. The people leading the search have more information than Flightaware does



Nobody said anything about flightaware being the authoritative source. It ~is~ however using one of the same transmitted data types that the people leading the search would have. If every flight seems to loose ADS coverage in the same zone, chances are it isn't being picked up by anyone.

Chances are very high that the plane was just a radar blip waiting to be handed off to the next airspace controller....until it wasn't. Just because the plane is transmitting a ton of information, doesn't mean anyone is listening at any particular point and time.
 
2014-03-09 12:46:15 PM  

SurelyShirley: Just saw this on twitter.
Are we sure it went down over water?


That would have been one very off-course plane.
 
2014-03-09 12:49:44 PM  
"Terrorists... yeah that's the ticket. It was terroists."
- Boeing's PR Dept.
 
2014-03-09 12:53:09 PM  
Why is it still missing?  How hard can it be to send a search plane to the last place it wa seen on radar?
 
2014-03-09 12:53:51 PM  

EponymousCowHerd: Spacman: EponymousCowHerd:

If the wing had failed suddenly at 35,000 feet, the turbulence from the drop would have ripped the plane apart.  If the plane was sufficiently intact to prevent a lot of floating debris, it is hard to see how a wing failure could have prevented the pilots from activating a distress beacon at least.

Honestly, an EgyptAir 990-type scenario seems more likely.

Right. What distress beacon are the pilots activating exactly? I have no idea where you got that info from.

The drill in an emergency is Aviate, Navigate, Communicate. In that order. In an emergency your primary responsibility is flying it, then figuring out where you are, a very far third is talking to people because, you know, they can't help you.

The automated beacons are switched on automatically by a more than 2.3g event (crash) or contact with water.

Pilots don't do that. They can squawk an emergency code if they have time, they don't activate shiat. It's automatic.

My apologies if I made a slight error, but there are transponders that allow an emergency signal to be sent by the pilots.  That is one of the ways the pilots can send a discrete signal to indicate a hijacking.


You are right, you can reset your ident to a specific number, (we'll call it 5500 it isn't) well, since they didn't reset to 5500 they were not hijacked. They would have done it.

The facts are that they turned right from 012deg at FL350 to 040deg on a programmed maneuver. Less than 6 minutes later they were in the drink facing 333deg. No point speculating, it WILL be explained.
 
2014-03-09 12:57:19 PM  

BillArr: The more I hear about this the more I think that there was someone on that plane that the governments wanted dead.  There is no way with current technology that a major airliner can vanish without a trace...we can read a license plate from space, nobody is going to convince me that some lettered agency does not know exactly what happened to this plane.


Any agency capable of vanishing an entire aircraft to get rid of one guy is capable of vanishing that one guy in a much less newsworthy fashion.
 
2014-03-09 01:22:39 PM  
Plane is listed as Delayed.
 
2014-03-09 01:27:46 PM  

Spacman: EponymousCowHerd: Spacman: EponymousCowHerd:

If the wing had failed suddenly at 35,000 feet, the turbulence from the drop would have ripped the plane apart.  If the plane was sufficiently intact to prevent a lot of floating debris, it is hard to see how a wing failure could have prevented the pilots from activating a distress beacon at least.

Honestly, an EgyptAir 990-type scenario seems more likely.

Right. What distress beacon are the pilots activating exactly? I have no idea where you got that info from.

The drill in an emergency is Aviate, Navigate, Communicate. In that order. In an emergency your primary responsibility is flying it, then figuring out where you are, a very far third is talking to people because, you know, they can't help you.

The automated beacons are switched on automatically by a more than 2.3g event (crash) or contact with water.

Pilots don't do that. They can squawk an emergency code if they have time, they don't activate shiat. It's automatic.

My apologies if I made a slight error, but there are transponders that allow an emergency signal to be sent by the pilots.  That is one of the ways the pilots can send a discrete signal to indicate a hijacking.

You are right, you can reset your ident to a specific number, (we'll call it 5500 it isn't) well, since they didn't reset to 5500 they were not hijacked. They would have done it.

The facts are that they turned right from 012deg at FL350 to 040deg on a programmed maneuver. Less than 6 minutes later they were in the drink facing 333deg. No point speculating, it WILL be explained.


It's 7500
 
2014-03-09 01:29:53 PM  

BalugaJoe: Plane is listed as Delayed.


Yeah, it is. I get a tad choked up by that.

Despite the fact it is days late the aircraft will be considered to be delayed until the main wreckage and bodies are found and it becomes a hull loss/accident.

This is fairly common, Air France 447 was listed as delayed for almost 3 years.
 
2014-03-09 01:43:30 PM  

Spacman: BalugaJoe: Plane is listed as Delayed.

Yeah, it is. I get a tad choked up by that.

Despite the fact it is days late the aircraft will be considered to be delayed until the main wreckage and bodies are found and it becomes a hull loss/accident.

This is fairly common, Air France 447 was listed as delayed for almost 3 years.


It would be something if the plane just landed in Beijing about now and the passengers and crew acted as if it had been a normal flight.
 
2014-03-09 01:46:23 PM  

nekom: Spacman: BalugaJoe: Plane is listed as Delayed.

Yeah, it is. I get a tad choked up by that.

Despite the fact it is days late the aircraft will be considered to be delayed until the main wreckage and bodies are found and it becomes a hull loss/accident.

This is fairly common, Air France 447 was listed as delayed for almost 3 years.

It would be something if the plane just landed in Beijing about now and the passengers and crew acted as if it had been a normal flight.



With the risk of making a tasteless joke at the expense of a tragedy....this could be the best viral marketing ever....

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2647586/
 
2014-03-09 01:48:29 PM  

All Latest: I suspect that two fake IDs is about average on a flight in some parts of the world.


I suspect you didn't suspect this last week and now have 1 data point
 
2014-03-09 01:49:57 PM  

nekom: Spacman: BalugaJoe: Plane is listed as Delayed.

Yeah, it is. I get a tad choked up by that.

Despite the fact it is days late the aircraft will be considered to be delayed until the main wreckage and bodies are found and it becomes a hull loss/accident.

This is fairly common, Air France 447 was listed as delayed for almost 3 years.

It would be something if the plane just landed in Beijing about now and the passengers and crew acted as if it had been a normal flight.


img1.wikia.nocookie.net
wanted for questioning.
 
2014-03-09 01:55:49 PM  
Just thinking outloud, has anyone checked the tarmac at the airport?  It could still be waiting for a turn to take off.
 
2014-03-09 01:57:13 PM  

BillArr: The more I hear about this the more I think that there was someone on that plane that the governments wanted dead.


So the more you hear about this, the more you believe in the most outlandish, least likely explanation? They blew up an entire airliner when they could have just popped him outside the airport?
 
2014-03-09 01:58:13 PM  

CraicBaby: Hell, Air France 447 crashed in 13,000' of water and they found wreckage the next day.


The floating wreckage, of which there wasn't much, so the 13,000' doesn't matter for that. For the wreckage at the bottom, it took almost two  years before they found anything.
 
2014-03-09 02:09:47 PM  
I'm seeing a LOT of misconceptions about how the emergency beacons aboard commercial aircraft of this size work.

Couple of things:

- The fixed beacon on the airframe will only go off if the mechanical switch (ball & spring inside a cylinder) perceives a 2.3g delta velocity change in the forward axis only. Water landings of any kind, as a rule, generally do not set off these beacons. An impact in any direction other than about a 45 degree cone in the forward axis will not activate them. They are not waterproof, and will cease to function the moment it is submerged.

- There are other beacons aboard the aircraft, one or more in the cabin for crew manual activation, and several installed on the inflatable rafts & slides. These only activate if the switch on them is manually turned on, or the slide / raft is deployed (which yanks a strap off the beacon, causing it to activate). These are not waterproof either, nor are they buoyant unless they have a float collar on them (most do not). They are also not water activated, this functionality is only present on EPIRBs which are reserved for boats / ships at sea.

In a case similar to the Air France crash a few years ago, unless the pilots manually activate the airframe beacon by using the control panel (usually mounted above the co-pilots head), the beacon will not go off at all. If it is set off manually over water, you might (at best) get 2 or 3 pulses out, which is not enough for the satellite system to triangulate the position. Some models do integrate with GPS on the aircraft to provide location data, however most commercial airlines don't spring for the extra cost of this type beacon or the labor cost of running 2 ARINC wires from the cockpit all the way back to the beacon in the tail (thousands of dollars in labor man hours).

Source: I used to manage the tech support / technical sales integration department for the largest manufacturer of emergency beacons in the US.
 
2014-03-09 02:15:19 PM  

Maturin: CNN article says the two passengers with the stolen Italian and Austrian passports had tickets that were bought together. They were to go from Beijing to Amsterdam then split up, going to Copenhagen and Frankfort.


Copenhagen I can understand, but Frankfort? There are many more beautiful places in Kentucky to visit.

/Frankfurt-am-Main has a nice art museum, I don't know if there's much else to see
 
2014-03-09 02:28:07 PM  

Paris1127: Maturin: CNN article says the two passengers with the stolen Italian and Austrian passports had tickets that were bought together. They were to go from Beijing to Amsterdam then split up, going to Copenhagen and Frankfort.

Copenhagen I can understand, but Frankfort? There are many more beautiful places in Kentucky to visit.

/Frankfurt-am-Main has a nice art museum, I don't know if there's much else to see


They are most likely individuals using stolen European passports to enter the EU for the purposes of non-standard immigration.

Despite what people say, stolen EU nation passports are used daily to enter. Once you hit the deck you have legal protections. Much easier than hiding in a truck.

Once they enter, they
 
2014-03-09 02:28:53 PM  

Paris1127: Maturin: CNN article says the two passengers with the stolen Italian and Austrian passports had tickets that were bought together. They were to go from Beijing to Amsterdam then split up, going to Copenhagen and Frankfort.

Copenhagen I can understand, but Frankfort? There are many more beautiful places in Kentucky to visit.

/Frankfurt-am-Main has a nice art museum, I don't know if there's much else to see


Fressgass und Römer
 
2014-03-09 02:29:29 PM  

nekom: bikkurikun:
Not really, remember the earth is round and shortest route is close to poles, it's quite a normal route.

Oh I didn't mean that flight's route was unusual, I mean why would one go from Kuala Lumpur to Frankfurt or Copenhagen by way of a connection in Beijing?  Wouldn't Lufthansa, Air France or KLM have a more direct route?  Of course it could be they were just the cheapest tickets they could find.  It remains entirely possible that these were just miscellaneous criminals, drug mules or illegal immigrants or whathaveyou, who had shiatty luck.


Direct flights cost more. Poor immigrants fleeing a country tend to not be loaded with disposable income. You get there however you can.
 
2014-03-09 02:30:21 PM  

Big Merl: Just thinking outloud, has anyone checked the tarmac at the airport?  It could still be waiting for a turn to take off.


Is it at ORD?
 
2014-03-09 02:32:58 PM  
I'm going to go on-record with a guess that the pilots were flying manually, and the aircraft suffered explosive decompression. Pilots are out, plane goes into a nosedive and experiences powered flight straight down into the water's surface. Might explain why there isn't much of a debris field.
 
2014-03-09 02:45:51 PM  

BigNumber12: I'm going to go on-record with a guess that the pilots were flying manually, and the aircraft suffered explosive decompression. Pilots are out, plane goes into a nosedive and experiences powered flight straight down into the water's surface. Might explain why there isn't much of a debris field.

,

Where do you get flying manually from. That is impossible in a 777.

You cannot fly it manually. The flight computers always assess your control inputs. Always.
 
2014-03-09 02:46:27 PM  

Coach_J: Big Merl: Just thinking outloud, has anyone checked the tarmac at the airport?  It could still be waiting for a turn to take off.

Is it at ORD?


I laughed, and then I cried. I once almost missed a connecting flight because the plane I was on sat on the runway forever waiting for an empty gate.

ReverendJynxed: nekom: bikkurikun:
Not really, remember the earth is round and shortest route is close to poles, it's quite a normal route.

Oh I didn't mean that flight's route was unusual, I mean why would one go from Kuala Lumpur to Frankfurt or Copenhagen by way of a connection in Beijing?  Wouldn't Lufthansa, Air France or KLM have a more direct route?  Of course it could be they were just the cheapest tickets they could find.  It remains entirely possible that these were just miscellaneous criminals, drug mules or illegal immigrants or whathaveyou, who had shiatty luck.

Direct flights cost more. Poor immigrants fleeing a country tend to not be loaded with disposable income. You get there however you can.


Yeah, it was probably cheaper, plus their passports were less likely to be scrutinized. What's sad is that those people using the stolen passports may never be identified and their families might never know what happened to them.
 
2014-03-09 02:47:17 PM  

Coach_J: Big Merl: Just thinking outloud, has anyone checked the tarmac at the airport?  It could still be waiting for a turn to take off.

Is it at ORD?



The 4 new parallel runways aimed straight at my house seemed to have solved that little bottleneck.

// Soon to be six
/// I don't mind, planes are pretty.
 
2014-03-09 02:54:12 PM  

italie: Coach_J: Big Merl: Just thinking outloud, has anyone checked the tarmac at the airport?  It could still be waiting for a turn to take off.

Is it at ORD?


The 4 new parallel runways aimed straight at my house seemed to have solved that little bottleneck.

// Soon to be six
/// I don't mind, planes are pretty.


ORD still has issues with capacity though right?
 
2014-03-09 02:55:16 PM  

BigNumber12: I'm going to go on-record with a guess that the pilots were flying manually, and the aircraft suffered explosive decompression


I'm pretty skeptical. It's not like you go unconscious immediately, according to Wikipedia, you'd be likely to have something like 20 seconds of useful conciousness at a typical cruising altitude. (Maybe a bit less.) That's not much time in some sense, but in that time all they'd have to do is grab the O2 masks from behind their seats. This is something that they've been trained about. Furthermore, while I don't have any specific reason to know this, I suspect the pressure would take at least a few seconds to drop to ambient in any event that wouldn't result in a loss of the aircraft anyway, so that gives a bit more time.

Then of course there's the unlikeliness of "flying manually" in the first place.
 
2014-03-09 03:01:24 PM  
So any video footage of a flash in the sky or fireball shooting to the ground? Port security cameras, skyward telescopes? Anything pointing in that direction that caught something on video??
 
2014-03-09 03:03:13 PM  

Mrtraveler01: italie: Coach_J: Big Merl: Just thinking outloud, has anyone checked the tarmac at the airport?  It could still be waiting for a turn to take off.

Is it at ORD?


The 4 new parallel runways aimed straight at my house seemed to have solved that little bottleneck.

// Soon to be six
/// I don't mind, planes are pretty.

ORD still has issues with capacity though right?


It did,  but in the last year or two it has seemed pretty smooth the dozen times I've been through there. I don't have many inside sources anymore though, so the judgement is completely based on my experiences.

//Immigration is still a horrible mess, worst in any airport I've ever been through.
 
2014-03-09 03:06:23 PM  
Someone may have mentioned this above but if it is terrorism, why isn't any terror group taking responsibility.
 
2014-03-09 03:07:34 PM  

acchief: So any video footage of a flash in the sky or fireball shooting to the ground? Port security cameras, skyward telescopes? Anything pointing in that direction that caught something on video??


I heard earlier that the US did not detect any flashes but I can't find the link to where this was mentioned.
 
2014-03-09 03:09:45 PM  

OtherBrotherDarryl: acchief: So any video footage of a flash in the sky or fireball shooting to the ground? Port security cameras, skyward telescopes? Anything pointing in that direction that caught something on video??

I heard earlier that the US did not detect any flashes but I can't find the link to where this was mentioned.



Right here:  http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/missing-jet/pentagon-data-suggests-j e t-didnt-explode-new-york-times-n48186

We do watch the skies for explosions, apparently, and we didn't see any.
 
2014-03-09 03:11:14 PM  

evaned: Then of course there's the unlikeliness of "flying manually" in the first place.


I'm trying to account for the fact that the aircraft obviously didn't continue on its set course, as happened with Payne Stewart. And it doesn't seem to have detonated in midair, which should have created a fairly obvious debris field.

We're running out of reasonable explanations.
 
2014-03-09 03:13:38 PM  
www.leparisien.fr

Possible plane door reported by LeParisien as being sighted from Vietnamese search aircraft: http://www.leparisien.fr/international/boeing-disparu-ouverture-d-une - enquete-pour-terrorisme-09-03-2014-3656411.php
 
2014-03-09 03:14:43 PM  

italie: I don't mind, planes are pretty.


And white with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and they look like a big Tylenol!
 
2014-03-09 03:15:55 PM  

SashiRomanenko: I'm seeing a LOT of misconceptions about how the emergency beacons aboard commercial aircraft of this size work.

Couple of things:

- The fixed beacon on the airframe will only go off if the mechanical switch (ball & spring inside a cylinder) perceives a 2.3g delta velocity change in the forward axis only. Water landings of any kind, as a rule, generally do not set off these beacons. An impact in any direction other than about a 45 degree cone in the forward axis will not activate them. They are not waterproof, and will cease to function the moment it is submerged.

- There are other beacons aboard the aircraft, one or more in the cabin for crew manual activation, and several installed on the inflatable rafts & slides. These only activate if the switch on them is manually turned on, or the slide / raft is deployed (which yanks a strap off the beacon, causing it to activate). These are not waterproof either, nor are they buoyant unless they have a float collar on them (most do not). They are also not water activated, this functionality is only present on EPIRBs which are reserved for boats / ships at sea.

In a case similar to the Air France crash a few years ago, unless the pilots manually activate the airframe beacon by using the control panel (usually mounted above the co-pilots head), the beacon will not go off at all. If it is set off manually over water, you might (at best) get 2 or 3 pulses out, which is not enough for the satellite system to triangulate the position. Some models do integrate with GPS on the aircraft to provide location data, however most commercial airlines don't spring for the extra cost of this type beacon or the labor cost of running 2 ARINC wires from the cockpit all the way back to the beacon in the tail (thousands of dollars in labor man hours).

Source: I used to manage the tech support / technical sales integration department for the largest manufacturer of emergency beacons in the US.


What if just one passenger was wearing

cdn3.breitling.com



a Breitling Emergency?
 
2014-03-09 03:16:04 PM  

Peter von Nostrand: BravadoGT: If it turns out to be a terrorist attack (and I think it will)--that would be a lot of dead Chinese at the hands of the Religion of Peace™ recently.

You want it to be a terrorist attack to fit your political agenda. Stay classy


Look up "Uighers".  Then get back to me, mmmkay?
 
2014-03-09 03:19:18 PM  

Khazar-Khum: Peter von Nostrand: BravadoGT: If it turns out to be a terrorist attack (and I think it will)--that would be a lot of dead Chinese at the hands of the Religion of Peace™ recently.

You want it to be a terrorist attack to fit your political agenda. Stay classy

Look up "Uighers".  Then get back to me, mmmkay?


At first I thought it was plausible. But if they were terrorists, why would they buy not 1 but 2 additional plane tickets in addition to this one to Beijing?

That plus the reports of the plane possibly trying to turn back to KL make me think it was less likely that it was a terrorist attack.
 
2014-03-09 03:20:27 PM  

acchief: So any video footage of a flash in the sky or fireball shooting to the ground? Port security cameras, skyward telescopes? Anything pointing in that direction that caught something on video??


Someone had video of it on his smart phone, but it was vertical and his friends mocked him, so he deleted it.
 
2014-03-09 03:25:19 PM  
What I got outta this thread:

Some guys with their right hands chewed off.

2-millimeter womp rats.

And no f**king telemetry.
 
2014-03-09 03:26:14 PM  
The only bit of remotely interesting info in that "article" is that I finally noticed that BBC's video player volume control goes up to 11. I snickered.
 
2014-03-09 03:30:07 PM  

nekom: OtherBrotherDarryl: acchief: So any video footage of a flash in the sky or fireball shooting to the ground? Port security cameras, skyward telescopes? Anything pointing in that direction that caught something on video??

I heard earlier that the US did not detect any flashes but I can't find the link to where this was mentioned.


Right here:  http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/missing-jet/pentagon-data-suggests-j e t-didnt-explode-new-york-times-n48186

We do watch the skies for explosions, apparently, and we didn't see any.


Jesus, what your satellites look for is this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=equ8CACRVWc

This ain't a missile launching, I don't know what the fark you think you guys are busy looking at in the vicinity of the crash.

No, really. Explain to me what your satellites are looking for there and how it is anything to do with this.
 
2014-03-09 03:35:57 PM  

SashiRomanenko: I'm seeing a LOT of misconceptions about how the emergency beacons aboard commercial aircraft of this size work.

Couple of things:

- The fixed beacon on the airframe will only go off if the mechanical switch (ball & spring inside a cylinder) perceives a 2.3g delta velocity change in the forward axis only. Water landings of any kind, as a rule, generally do not set off these beacons. An impact in any direction other than about a 45 degree cone in the forward axis will not activate them. They are not waterproof, and will cease to function the moment it is submerged.

- There are other beacons aboard the aircraft, one or more in the cabin for crew manual activation, and several installed on the inflatable rafts & slides. These only activate if the switch on them is manually turned on, or the slide / raft is deployed (which yanks a strap off the beacon, causing it to activate). These are not waterproof either, nor are they buoyant unless they have a float collar on them (most do not). They are also not water activated, this functionality is only present on EPIRBs which are reserved for boats / ships at sea.

In a case similar to the Air France crash a few years ago, unless the pilots manually activate the airframe beacon by using the control panel (usually mounted above the co-pilots head), the beacon will not go off at all. If it is set off manually over water, you might (at best) get 2 or 3 pulses out, which is not enough for the satellite system to triangulate the position. Some models do integrate with GPS on the aircraft to provide location data, however most commercial airlines don't spring for the extra cost of this type beacon or the labor cost of running 2 ARINC wires from the cockpit all the way back to the beacon in the tail (thousands of dollars in labor man hours).

Source: I used to manage the tech support / technical sales integration department for the largest manufacturer of emergency beacons in the US.


Seems like they should, uh, you know, make them water proof
 
2014-03-09 03:37:15 PM  

Khazar-Khum: Look up "Uighers".  Then get back to me, mmmkay?


What do Slim Shady or Joss Stone have to do with aeroplanes?

 
2014-03-09 03:40:29 PM  

Contrabulous Flabtraption: Seems like they should, uh, you know, make them water proof


Not only are they waterproof, they are designed to kick off upon contact with water. I have no Idea what random bullshiat that guy is chirping on about
 
2014-03-09 03:51:38 PM  

ransack.: What if just one passenger was wearing a Breitling Emergency?


He would have to survive long enough to activate it. Those only transmit after you unscrew a cap and pull the antenna out.
 
2014-03-09 04:21:21 PM  

Contrabulous Flabtraption: SashiRomanenko: I'm seeing a LOT of misconceptions about how the emergency beacons aboard commercial aircraft of this size work.

Couple of things:

- The fixed beacon on the airframe will only go off if the mechanical switch (ball & spring inside a cylinder) perceives a 2.3g delta velocity change in the forward axis only. Water landings of any kind, as a rule, generally do not set off these beacons. An impact in any direction other than about a 45 degree cone in the forward axis will not activate them. They are not waterproof, and will cease to function the moment it is submerged.

- There are other beacons aboard the aircraft, one or more in the cabin for crew manual activation, and several installed on the inflatable rafts & slides. These only activate if the switch on them is manually turned on, or the slide / raft is deployed (which yanks a strap off the beacon, causing it to activate). These are not waterproof either, nor are they buoyant unless they have a float collar on them (most do not). They are also not water activated, this functionality is only present on EPIRBs which are reserved for boats / ships at sea.

In a case similar to the Air France crash a few years ago, unless the pilots manually activate the airframe beacon by using the control panel (usually mounted above the co-pilots head), the beacon will not go off at all. If it is set off manually over water, you might (at best) get 2 or 3 pulses out, which is not enough for the satellite system to triangulate the position. Some models do integrate with GPS on the aircraft to provide location data, however most commercial airlines don't spring for the extra cost of this type beacon or the labor cost of running 2 ARINC wires from the cockpit all the way back to the beacon in the tail (thousands of dollars in labor man hours).

Source: I used to manage the tech support / technical sales integration department for the largest manufacturer of emergency beacons in the US.

Seems like they should, uh, you know, make them water proof


It's not a requirement per RTCA DO-204. Additionally, waterproof means no external antenna mounted to the airframe. No external antenna means it won't be able to transmit outside of the giant sealed metal tube they reside in, and you won't be able to activate it via a cockpit remote switch. Basic physics still apply, and for every manufacturer that makes a 40,000$ beacon that does everything beyond the basic requirements, ten others will be there making 5,000$ ones that only meet the basic requirement. Companies are cheap, regulations are bought by corporate money.
 
2014-03-09 05:00:03 PM  
lenonhonor.com
Wanted for questioning...


....not to be confused with younger brother
3.bp.blogspot.com

lh5.googleusercontent.com

/scared shatless
 
2014-03-09 05:13:29 PM  
img.fark.net
 
2014-03-09 05:42:02 PM  
Gee.  Maybe if those "intelligence agencies" weren't so obsessed with the grocery list on my iPhone they'd have spotted these asshats in time.
 
2014-03-09 05:45:50 PM  

SashiRomanenko: Source: I used to manage the tech support / technical sales integration department for the largest manufacturer of emergency beacons in the US.


These things don't sound all that well thought out.  Why not simply give the beacon access to the plane's altitude data, and trigger it if the data either stops flowing or indicates an abnormal sink rate?  Why all this wacky stuff with manual activation, g-force sensors, and so forth?  Use one reliable, failsafe beacon instead of several gimmicky ones.
 
2014-03-09 05:47:34 PM  

BigNumber12: I'm trying to account for the fact that the aircraft obviously didn't continue on its set course, as happened with Payne Stewart. And it doesn't seem to have detonated in midair, which should have created a fairly obvious debris field.


They could have just suffered a loss of control. Either direct -- e.g. brought about by something like a control malfunction (a la the 737 rudder problem from a couple decades back) -- or indirect -- e.g. brought about by pilot error (a la Air France 447).  That to me seems much more likely than explosive decompression leading to pilot hypoxia while they weren't on autopilot.
 
2014-03-09 05:48:06 PM  
CraicBaby:
The spot where the oil slicks were found was only 150' deep. If it had crashed there, they would have found wreckage by now. Hell, Air France 447 crashed in 13,000' of water and they found wreckage the next day.

The ocean is big. Very big. If you read some of the articles about this crash you'd see that it has taken days for ships to get out there and search the area. Plus, oil slicks move with the currents. The fact they have found, presumably, a door near the slicks is backing up my assertion here. Regardless of depth, it can take a while to find a crash site.
 
2014-03-09 05:56:49 PM  

Man On Pink Corner: SashiRomanenko: Source: I used to manage the tech support / technical sales integration department for the largest manufacturer of emergency beacons in the US.

These things don't sound all that well thought out.  Why not simply give the beacon access to the plane's altitude data, and trigger it if the data either stops flowing or indicates an abnormal sink rate?  Why all this wacky stuff with manual activation, g-force sensors, and so forth?  Use one reliable, failsafe beacon instead of several gimmicky ones.


I wholeheartedly agree with you, most of it is due to the excruciating pace that the FAR takes to update regulations and requirements. That, and there is no one source of that data except from a main flight computer - something which is found only on newer aircraft and there are several manufacturers that would have to come to agreement on a standardized spec to do so. The retrofit costs to implement such a system are great enough that the Airlines would fight it tooth and nail, and sadly their lobbies money combined with politics would make this effort take years, if not decades to implement.
 
2014-03-09 06:01:51 PM  
The BBC has been pursuing a campaign of "Don't blame Muslims at any cost" which might explain the idiotic headline about the plane turning back to somewhere.
 
2014-03-09 06:42:53 PM  

emberposse: The BBC has been pursuing a campaign of "Don't blame Muslims at any cost" which might explain the idiotic headline about the plane turning back to somewhere.


Just when I thought I heard something stupid.

The BBC didn't make that headline up, the radar data from Malaysia's Air Force showed that. Unless you think the Malaysia Air Force is behind this whole conspiracy.
 
2014-03-09 07:06:27 PM  
I was on Malaysian Air Flight MH370; the plane went down in twelve minutes.  Two hundred and thiry nine of us went into the water.  Didn't see the first shark for about half an hour...
 
2014-03-09 07:10:21 PM  

emberposse: The BBC has been pursuing a campaign of "Don't blame Muslims at any cost" which might explain the idiotic headline about the plane turning back to somewhere.



You do realize that the story about the flight possibly turning back originated from the Malaysian transport minister, and not the BBC, right? They're just reporting on what he said. And you know that you "can't blame Muslims" when you don't even know why the plane crashed, right? That "campaign," as you call it, is what everyone else knows as responsible journalism.
 
2014-03-09 07:16:41 PM  
There have been a number of theories put forward. The BBC goes with the one that fits their world view.
 
2014-03-09 07:58:39 PM  

emberposse: There have been a number of theories put forward. The BBC goes with the one that fits their world view.



I would prefer a 'news' organization not put forward any theories and instead report verified facts and checked sources.

I know this is asking a lot, especially when a network is expected to report news for 24 hours.
 
2014-03-09 08:05:42 PM  

emberposse: There have been a number of theories put forward. The BBC goes with the one that fits their world view.


I think it was aliens myself. It's just as valid of a claim as the Muslim Terrorist claim and just as much proof to back it up.
 
2014-03-09 08:07:07 PM  

TheDirtyNacho: I would prefer a 'news' organization not put forward any theories and instead report verified facts and checked sources.

I know this is asking a lot, especially when a network is expected to report news for 24 hours.


Which is what the BBC is doing, they aren't speculating anything and are just relaying the information they get from their sources. He's just upset that the BBC isn't going "OMGZ MUSLIM TERRORISTZ!!!!!" for whatever reason.
 
2014-03-09 08:23:55 PM  

PunGent: I was on Malaysian Air Flight MH370; the plane went down in twelve minutes.  Two hundred and thiry nine of us went into the water.  Didn't see the first shark for about half an hour...


Did you deliver the bomb?
 
2014-03-09 08:54:58 PM  

emberposse: There have been a number of theories put forward. The BBC goes with the one that fits their world view.


And which theory is the BBC putting forward right now? This article only reports that the Malaysians are saying the plane may have turned around before it disappeared, and that as many as four people may have been traveling with fake IDs?

Without a shred of evidence, a major media organization is supposed to proclaim that Muslims have crashed a plane?
 
2014-03-09 11:05:37 PM  
shower_in_my_socks:
Without a shred of evidence, a major media organization is supposed to proclaim that Muslims have crashed a plane?

Did you see the pilot's names?  I think it is a 100% certainty that a Muslim crashed the plane.
 
2014-03-10 12:12:58 AM  
To me this serves as proof that the 1989 hit movie Millenium starring Kris Kristofferson is real as shiat.  They've gone to the future to preserve the future!  That means the Chinese will be the dominant race during the time of Picard and Mua'dib.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0097883/?ref_=fn_al_tt_3
 
2014-03-10 12:27:12 AM  
hit movie starring Kris Kristofferson, time of Picard and Mua'dib

*plonk*
 
2014-03-10 01:09:04 AM  

themunsterfullback: That's what I was thinking.  If it exploded or crashed wouldn't there be loads of debris floating indicating a general area of entry instead of just oil.  It's been a few days and we hear everything from mechanical nose diving to terrorists landing it in another country. It's not like this was a twin engine puddle jumper either, a 777 shouldn't take too long to find especially if not in one piece. Strange.


I love people like you who have absolutely no appreciation of the size of the ocean.

You are asking that quite small bits of whitish debris be spotted from a plane pretty high up in the air, on a big blue/white/grey thing that is twice the size of Alaska.

Good luck with that.
 
2014-03-10 01:38:38 AM  
For some reason, I checked out what the Freepers had to say about this.  A few of them are worked up about the pilots being Muslim and how it's stupid to let Muslims be pilots.
 
2014-03-10 01:55:33 AM  

Phins: For some reason, I checked out what the Freepers had to say about this.  A few of them are worked up about the pilots being Muslim and how it's stupid to let Muslims be pilots.


And for some reason, they don't seem to know that flight times are always local, they're complaining about not know what time the plane really took off/disappeared because time zones.
 
2014-03-10 02:08:23 AM  
Why no ACARS data available?
 
2014-03-10 09:06:14 AM  

Phins: Phins: For some reason, I checked out what the Freepers had to say about this.  A few of them are worked up about the pilots being Muslim and how it's stupid to let Muslims be pilots.

And for some reason, they don't seem to know that flight times are always local, they're complaining about not know what time the plane really took off/disappeared because time zones.


With Freepers, you're lucky if you get one that buys into that whole "Earth is round" business...
 
2014-03-10 09:51:31 AM  

RandomRandom: shower_in_my_socks: WaPo also saying that as many as four people on the flight had fake IDs.

There's an automatic assumption that these fake passport holders were terrorists.
 

It's a lot more likely they were illegal immigrants.  A whole lot more likely.  Maybe a million times more likely.  Some were even booked through all the way to Europe.

A fake passport, a little luck, welcome to Europe.


The first story I read about the stolen passports suggested that it was likely drug smuggling (or human smuggling).  Apparently having drug mules use stolen passports has happened before.  The "OMG Terrorz!" comes from seeing two stolen passports. Apparently seeing one is rare, but happens.  "Experts" think seeing two is more than a coincidence.
 
2014-03-10 11:38:38 AM  

Eutychus: EponymousCowHerd:

AF447 hit the water intact. No mayday call. The crew were too busy trying to fly the thing. The absence of debris - so far - is odd but as many people have said, the ocean is a big place.


i just have a hard time with that.  is it a rotary dial in the cockpit?
 
2014-03-10 12:19:59 PM  

SashiRomanenko: I'm seeing a LOT of misconceptions about how the emergency beacons aboard commercial aircraft of this size work.

Couple of things:

- The fixed beacon on the airframe will only go off if the mechanical switch (ball & spring inside a cylinder) perceives a 2.3g delta velocity change in the forward axis only. Water landings of any kind, as a rule, generally do not set off these beacons. An impact in any direction other than about a 45 degree cone in the forward axis will not activate them. They are not waterproof, and will cease to function the moment it is submerged.

- There are other beacons aboard the aircraft, one or more in the cabin for crew manual activation, and several installed on the inflatable rafts & slides. These only activate if the switch on them is manually turned on, or the slide / raft is deployed (which yanks a strap off the beacon, causing it to activate). These are not waterproof either, nor are they buoyant unless they have a float collar on them (most do not). They are also not water activated, this functionality is only present on EPIRBs which are reserved for boats / ships at sea.

In a case similar to the Air France crash a few years ago, unless the pilots manually activate the airframe beacon by using the control panel (usually mounted above the co-pilots head), the beacon will not go off at all. If it is set off manually over water, you might (at best) get 2 or 3 pulses out, which is not enough for the satellite system to triangulate the position. Some models do integrate with GPS on the aircraft to provide location data, however most commercial airlines don't spring for the extra cost of this type beacon or the labor cost of running 2 ARINC wires from the cockpit all the way back to the beacon in the tail (thousands of dollars in labor man hours).

Source: I used to manage the tech support / technical sales integration department for the largest manufacturer of emergency beacons in the US.


fantastic explanation

they need to come up with a better system

get on that
 
2014-03-10 08:35:49 PM  

Heron: I think it'd be better to wait for the investigation, rather than start spinning crazy stories about this.


Better?  Yes.

But certainly not as much fun.
 
Displayed 217 of 217 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
On Twitter





In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report