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(Pop Matters)   The decline and ultimate downfall of Marvel's Ultimate Universe   (popmatters.com) divider line 64
    More: Interesting, Ultimate Universe, Ultimates, Jeph Loeb, history by period, Heroes Reborn, Last Stand, Charles Xavier, Dr. Strange  
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5194 clicks; posted to Geek » on 09 Mar 2014 at 7:50 AM (23 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-09 12:22:04 AM
I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that comic book fanbois are the the worst people who have ever existed in the entire history of humanity.
 
2014-03-09 03:05:13 AM

Lsherm: I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that comic book fanbois are the the worst people who have ever existed in the entire history of humanity.


Not as long as there are sports fans.

Anyway, the problem with the Ultimate Universe is that it got old. It started out as a clean slate that was easy to get into. After a while, it was full of as much baggage as the old 616 universe.
 
2014-03-09 07:04:04 AM

FirstNationalBastard: Lsherm: I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that comic book fanbois are the the worst people who have ever existed in the entire history of humanity.

Not as long as there are sports fans.


nyrb.typepad.com
 
2014-03-09 07:25:15 AM
Agents of Shield has gotten better as of this past week. They've brought in the Kree race and some hybrid Inhuman mythos and added them to the mix. Lady Sif from the Thor movies will be on next week.
 
2014-03-09 08:05:49 AM
So the line went downhill when the good people left and the hacks picked up the reins?

Colour me shocked.

All long lasting series should be reset every ten to twenty years to prevent the baggage hold it back and to let new takes on characters and events. It's just stretching disbelief too far for Bruce Wayne or Scott Summers not being 60 years old.
 
2014-03-09 08:17:02 AM
Agents of SHIELD SUX ass.
 
2014-03-09 08:26:27 AM

Lsherm: I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that comic book fanbois are the the worst people who have ever existed in the entire history of humanity.


Xbox/Playstation fanbois would like a word with you.
 
2014-03-09 08:33:23 AM
FTA:   Like taking medicine that has already been proven to not work, Ultimate is a habit that has lost both its impact.

"Lost both its impact"?  Too sad to edit, are we?
 
2014-03-09 08:37:32 AM

Norfolking Chance: So the line went downhill when the good people left and the hacks picked up the reins?

Colour me shocked.

All long lasting series should be reset every ten to twenty years to prevent the baggage hold it back and to let new takes on characters and events. It's just stretching disbelief too far for Bruce Wayne or Scott Summers not being 60 years old.


The Simpsons have done pretty well without reboots.
 
2014-03-09 08:41:24 AM
I remain surprised that adults still buy superhero comics.  I've basically restricted my purchases to books for the kids and the occasional TPB.  I thought the writing on the big two started sucking in the early 90s and never quite came back.  Both of the studios will find a writer that put together maybe one good story arc, and then they'll ride him til he breaks.  Bendis and Millar are excellent examples of this.
 
2014-03-09 09:03:28 AM

Lsherm: I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that comic book fanbois are the the worst people who have ever existed in the entire history of humanity.


Oh please. How about MAC fanbois?
 
2014-03-09 09:16:58 AM

Hobodeluxe: Agents of Shield has gotten better as of this past week


People have been saying that for ages. I watched the most recent episode to see if it were true, and what I got was 55 minutes of boring (and the team heroically murdering innocent security guards), followed by a cool twist in the last 5 minutes.

That's the same shiat The Walking Dead does to keep you watching despite not being a very good show. I'm not falling for it again.
 
2014-03-09 09:21:10 AM
Is there supposed to be something in that comic panel that helps me understand why the author is butt-hurt?
 
2014-03-09 09:33:15 AM
I thought the only good Ultimate series in the first place was supposed to be Spider-Man. I've never heard any praise for any of the other series.
 
2014-03-09 09:38:53 AM
Last I heard Galactus crossed over to the Ultimate universe, somehow merged with that version's Galactus and then wiped out New Jersey.
 
2014-03-09 09:39:52 AM
"It was shattered like a brick thrown through a pane of glass."

Must have been a pretty strong window. Jesus f*cking Christ on ice skates, just because the article is about comics doesn't mean your editor shouldn't look at it, you talentless hack.
 
2014-03-09 09:51:20 AM

texdent: Last I heard Galactus crossed over to the Ultimate universe, somehow merged with that version's Galactus and then wiped out New Jersey.


but enough about Hurricane Sandy
 
2014-03-09 10:05:36 AM
The only Ultimate comic I've been able to really get into is the new Spider-man, which honestly they should have done to begin with. What's the point of having an alternate universe if you're not really going to change shiat. Miles Morales is a great Spider-Man.
 
rpm
2014-03-09 10:19:45 AM

ghare: Lsherm: I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that comic book fanbois are the the worst people who have ever existed in the entire history of humanity.

Oh please. How about MAC fanbois?


There are Message Authentication Code fanbois?
 
2014-03-09 10:58:05 AM
TL;DR.

That being said I think I got the gist of it by reading the first three & last three paragraphs.

The books were good, really good, when they had good writers. Now the only one left is Bendis on Ultimate Spider Man, and the rest of the line stinks.

But it happens all the time.
 
2014-03-09 11:10:27 AM

Lsherm: I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that comic book fanbois are the the worst people who have ever existed in the entire history of humanity.


No, that's still radio DJs.
 
2014-03-09 11:20:23 AM

Bareefer Obonghit: "It was shattered like a brick thrown through a pane of glass."

Must have been a pretty strong window. Jesus f*cking Christ on ice skates, just because the article is about comics doesn't mean your editor shouldn't look at it, you talentless hack.


After the first paragraph I skimmed it, thinking "This was written by a 7th grader, wasn't it?"
 
2014-03-09 11:26:52 AM

ghare: Lsherm: I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that comic book fanbois are the the worst people who have ever existed in the entire history of humanity.

Oh please. How about MAC fanbois?


Everyone knows the answer is either a: Anime fans, or b: Bronies.
 
2014-03-09 11:32:20 AM
static.comicvine.com
 
2014-03-09 11:32:59 AM

drewogatory: ghare: Lsherm: I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that comic book fanbois are the the worst people who have ever existed in the entire history of humanity.

Oh please. How about MAC fanbois?

Everyone knows the answer is either a: Anime fans, or b: Bronies.


Doctor Who fanboys = Bronies, but still < sports fans.
 
2014-03-09 11:36:22 AM

grinding_journalist: Bareefer Obonghit: "It was shattered like a brick thrown through a pane of glass."

Must have been a pretty strong window. Jesus f*cking Christ on ice skates, just because the article is about comics doesn't mean your editor shouldn't look at it, you talentless hack.

After the first paragraph I skimmed it, thinking "This was written by a 7th grader, wasn't it?"


Sadly no. :(

Jack Fisher is an aspiring writer and novelist. He owns and operates X-men Supreme, a website dedicated to his own world of X-men, and the X-men Supreme Official Blog, where he also reviews comics. He has a degree in Communications and has self-published two books, "Child of Orcus" and "Skin Deep." Follow him on Twitter @MarvelMaster616

Someone published this guy?! O_o
 
2014-03-09 11:47:16 AM

AgentKGB: Someone published this guy?! O_o


AgentKGB: has self-published two books,


"Posted online."
 
2014-03-09 12:16:52 PM

FirstNationalBastard: drewogatory: ghare: Lsherm: I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that comic book fanbois are the the worst people who have ever existed in the entire history of humanity.

Oh please. How about MAC fanbois?

Everyone knows the answer is either a: Anime fans, or b: Bronies.

Doctor Who fanboys = Bronies, but still < sports fans.


Bronies and Whovians are mostly harmless compared to Browncoats and Console Warriors.

bifford: The Simpsons have done pretty well without reboots.


It helps when you can handwave away continuity by ordered no one ever talk about it again. (Isn't that right, Principal Skinner?)

Tyrone Slothrop: I thought the only good Ultimate series in the first place was supposed to be Spider-Man. I've never heard any praise for any of the other series.


That was my favorite series, which is why I'm a huge fan of the Ultimate Spiderman TV show. Now, the new kid they brought in is really interesting and they're doing a good job with his story. But I would have preferred this be in addition to Parker rather than replacing him. I think their character dynamic could have been interesting.

I think what the Ultimate line needs is a reset button. Pull a days of future past kind of event, in which everyone realizes they are living in an alternate timeline and they need to undo what caused it in the fist place. The remaining characters go back in time and change the one event that led to everything else, and the universe goes back to the way it was. Except now, these heroes who changed the future are stuck in the new timeline and have to deal with this restored universe.

There, Marvel, I fixed it for you. You're welcome.
 
2014-03-09 12:23:36 PM

grinding_journalist: AgentKGB: Someone published this guy?! O_o

AgentKGB: has self-published two books,

"Posted online."


Yeah his pokemon / Teddy Ruxpin fanfic crossover that only he has read lol.
 
2014-03-09 12:27:58 PM
I enjoyed Marvel's New Universe back in the day. They should do something like that again. Not exactly, but something in the similar vein.
 
2014-03-09 12:33:22 PM

FirstNationalBastard: drewogatory: ghare: Lsherm: I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that comic book fanbois are the the worst people who have ever existed in the entire history of humanity.

Oh please. How about MAC fanbois?

Everyone knows the answer is either a: Anime fans, or b: Bronies.

Doctor Who fanboys = Bronies, but still < sports fans.


Fanboys of political parties are the worst. Their irrational fandom actually is destructive.
 
2014-03-09 12:56:48 PM
ct.fra.bz
 
2014-03-09 12:57:23 PM
wtf did i just read?

Talk about a butt-hurt virgin....

(img.fark.netmmmm... butt hurt virgin....)

Honestly -- This "ultimates" universe sounds like glorified fan fiction that marvel assumed (correctly) it could push on voracious fans who buy anything you put a marvel stamp on.

Also -- killing off or changing classic characters SEEMS gritty... But after a bit it starts seeming pretty lazy.
 
2014-03-09 12:59:17 PM
I don't have an issue with the deaths in the Ultimate Universe.  I had an issue with how meaningless they were.  Wasp getting eaten by Blob?  Really?
 
2014-03-09 01:32:00 PM
IMO, Jeph Loeb is responsible for the downfall of the Ultimate U. He wiped his ass with the entire Universe and the stink never washed out.
 
2014-03-09 01:33:53 PM
 Some will point to the end of Ultimates 2 and the departure of Mark Millar. Some will point to the arrival of Jeph Loeb and the poor reception garnered by his work on Ultimates 3. Some will point to Ultimatum and the massive destruction and death that devastated so much of what the line had built.

And some people will remember was that the entire point of Ultimates was to have an actual storyline where things changed, people aged, etc, and everyone stopped reading because of the general (and entirely correct) impression that the lines were turning into the same "literally everyone is eternally 17 years old and heals perfectly from all injuries" crap and resorting to soap-opera bullshiat to keep the status quo... you know, the same shiatty storytelling in the main universe that motivated making the Ultimates in the first place.

I doubt it was some specific author hand-off or story element that drove even individual readers away.  It was just the realization that it was more of the same.

// They sort of realized the problem, too, which was why some authors went to waaaaaay stupid lengths to try to alter the status quo... only to have it restored by only slightly less stupid means than the usual death-is-a-revolving-door crap that the mainlines use.  Legacy heroes, especially, are straight narrative bullshiat for any book that's not about an organization.
 
2014-03-09 01:35:32 PM

FirstNationalBastard: Lsherm: I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that comic book fanbois are the the worst people who have ever existed in the entire history of humanity.

Not as long as there are sports fans.

Anyway, the problem with the Ultimate Universe is that it got old. It started out as a clean slate that was easy to get into. After a while, it was full of as much baggage as the old 616 universe.


This. Also, I love the tendency (mostly at DC) to bring back all the old baggage that everyone agreed was terrible. It's like the writers can't help themselves but to put back in old arcs and trivia. It literally takes 6 months from the last world reset before they start itching to redo the Clone saga, etc.
 
2014-03-09 01:39:42 PM

Mentat: I don't have an issue with the deaths in the Ultimate Universe.  I had an issue with how meaningless they were.  Wasp getting eaten by Blob?  Really?


Pretty much half of the Ultimatum deaths were like that; pointless aside from just going "look, we farking killed them".  With a wave.

Aside from anything else, killing Nightcrawler (a farking teleporter) in this way was just sloppy.

Anywho... the Ultimate line was good, but continuing on from Ultimatum was bad.  Either they shouldn't have done it, or they should have just called it quits with the moment Spider-Man gets pulled from the rubble.  For farks sake,they killed 9/10 of the X-Men characters and then insisted on dragging the rotten corpse along.
 
2014-03-09 02:12:34 PM

FirstNationalBastard: drewogatory: ghare: Lsherm: I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that comic book fanbois are the the worst people who have ever existed in the entire history of humanity.

Oh please. How about MAC fanbois?

Everyone knows the answer is either a: Anime fans, or b: Bronies.

Doctor Who fanboys = Bronies, but still < sports fans.


I think it depends on the Whovians. There are the Outpost Gallifrey weirdoes, but there's a lot of fans who realize the show is silly fun and don't take it too seriously and roll with the weirdness. I think it just comes down to the fact that for any fun thing, there are some obsessed jackholes that will take it waaaay to seriously and suck all the fun out.
 
2014-03-09 02:18:14 PM

Lsherm: I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that comic book fanbois are the the worst people who have ever existed in the entire history of humanity.


Really, are they even "people" at all?
 
2014-03-09 02:39:19 PM
So basically, a long-running "What if"

If you think about it that way...then you can let go.
Because it doesn't matter.
 
2014-03-09 03:14:59 PM

Gunther: Hobodeluxe: Agents of Shield has gotten better as of this past week

People have been saying that for ages. I watched the most recent episode to see if it were true, and what I got was 55 minutes of boring (and the team heroically murdering innocent security guards), followed by a cool twist in the last 5 minutes.

That's the same shiat The Walking Dead does to keep you watching despite not being a very good show. I'm not falling for it again.


To be fair, they did tell those guys at least twice that all they wanted was medical help and Coulson even specifically warned them after they got into the place that they didn't want to hurt anyone but they would defend themselves.
Then again, if a burglar tells you he doesn't want to hurt anyone but will defend himself, it doesn't excuse his breaking into your house in the first place. Being a security guard at a place like that, though, there's probably more than a little bit of acknowledgement of increased risk, though.
 
2014-03-09 03:29:40 PM
They're comic books, not Shakespeare.
 
2014-03-09 03:51:30 PM

CigaretteSmokingMan: They're comic books, not Shakespeare.


Shakespeare was pop culture too.
 
2014-03-09 03:51:33 PM

Gunther: People have been saying that for ages. I watched the most recent episode to see if it were true, and what I got was 55 minutes of boring (and the team heroically murdering innocent security guards), followed by a cool twist in the last 5 minutes.


This bothered the hell out of me. They have plenty of non-lethal methods at their disposal, like night-night guns and dendro-toxins, blah blah blah. The first half of the season was all about that stuff it seemed like. Then they just go and kill two guys who are probably employed by SHIELD.

Though they might be going along some "Something is rotten at SHIELD" route, if the Captain America trailers are any indication. If they're smart they'll do some kind of tie-in with that. Though right now it seems like I'm giving them too much credit.
 
2014-03-09 04:30:04 PM

Comsamvimes: Gunther: People have been saying that for ages. I watched the most recent episode to see if it were true, and what I got was 55 minutes of boring (and the team heroically murdering innocent security guards), followed by a cool twist in the last 5 minutes.

This bothered the hell out of me. They have plenty of non-lethal methods at their disposal, like night-night guns and dendro-toxins, blah blah blah. The first half of the season was all about that stuff it seemed like. Then they just go and kill two guys who are probably employed by SHIELD.

Though they might be going along some "Something is rotten at SHIELD" route, if the Captain America trailers are any indication. If they're smart they'll do some kind of tie-in with that. Though right now it seems like I'm giving them too much credit.


They've been saying since the show started that the show will tie-in with the movies. So I'm almost positive that the examination of SHIELD's dirty laundry will be related. I'm guessing it will all end up being related to Fury's justification for developing weapons using the Tesseract. He sees interplanetary wars coming, and knows humanity is outgunned. I'm curious to see how far he takes that mantra.

As for the guards, they weren't at an official SHIELD base. I think the point was that they didn't have a lot of time to save Skye, so they had to do it quick and dirty. They had zero intel as to what the place was or how many people might be guarding it. Their nonlethal methods all take time and strategy to set up. You can't walk in blindly to a compound with only a handful of non-lethal rounds, you have to take something you can have quantity of in case the defenses are more advanced. Since the rounds for such weapons would be tremendously expensive, and since they aren't the type of thing you can spray out of a semi-automatic weapon (both in expense and in effect), they're of limited use in combat.

Similarly, they established that the base was farking with all of their electronic equipment. So some sort of drone was out of the question.

So, no, didn't have a problem with it.
 
2014-03-09 05:10:32 PM
Those guards probably worked for Hydra, AIM, or some other nefarious organization.
 
2014-03-09 05:44:35 PM

texdent: Those guards probably worked for Hydra, AIM, or some other nefarious organization.


I'm hoping for H.A.T.E.

shawlettering.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-03-09 06:50:45 PM

Hobodeluxe: Agents of Shield has gotten better as of this past week. They've brought in the Kree race


Is that what that blue thing in the tube was? What does "G. H." actually stand for?
 
2014-03-09 06:53:01 PM

Mad_Radhu: texdent: Those guards probably worked for Hydra, AIM, or some other nefarious organization.

I'm hoping for H.A.T.E.


We're all hoping for H.A.T.E.

America is under a lot of pressure these days, hence tits and explosions is what they need. For America.
 
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