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(Telegraph)   How dare you tell my daughter she's pretty   (telegraph.co.uk) divider line 76
    More: Silly, Organisation for Economic Co-operation  
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16718 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Mar 2014 at 4:24 PM (33 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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2014-03-08 03:39:59 PM  
22 votes:
So then buy the blue poster, you stupid twat.

You're biatching about gender stereotyping, then adhering to "pink is for girls, blue is for boys".

fark you and anyone who looks like you.
2014-03-08 04:41:50 PM  
10 votes:
To be fair those posters are pretty bad. Kids absorb the gender role limitations, spoken or unspoken, that we immerse them in. I don't mind pink but I'd love to see a pink shirt aimed at my daughter... that has dump tricks or dinosaurs or any one of the other things she should feel free to like, even if she also likes pink.
2014-03-08 04:58:11 PM  
6 votes:
Sorry male and I agree with her, if you just have the knee jerk "feminism bad" response to anything like this then I feel sorry for all the females in your life.
2014-03-08 04:46:51 PM  
6 votes:
I don't know about anyone else, but I like pretty, feminine "stereotypical" girls.  I'm not interested in dating or marrying another man.  I've met quite a few young women who behave like stereotypical men (rude, abrasive, macho) and it's a huge turn-off. 

My wife does girly things and looks feminine, yet is also smart enough to use her brain by thinking independently - something that following the pink poster does not automatically prevent, as many feminists seem to believe.  I will be teaching any future daughters I have the value of femininity, but also that of learning, creativity and independent thought.  The only people who seem to think those two things are mutually exclusive are feminists, which only shows how flawed and narrow their view really are.
2014-03-08 04:45:48 PM  
5 votes:
I think she has a point and you are all just sadly parroting the first one to post.  Perhaps read the article and make your own judgment.  Or don't.  It's probably too much for you to comprehend anyway.
2014-03-08 04:55:07 PM  
4 votes:
Christ, this thread is full of assholes.

The straight-up "she's a woman blogging so she must suck!" is to be expected.  But the winner are the couple of "Well, yeah.  Girls should be like that because that's what I'm attracted to" idiots.
2014-03-08 06:38:28 PM  
3 votes:

bunner: That's pretty much the de facto standard, and should be. But if she's pretty, too, she's being insulted, discriminated against and "held back"? Seriously?


No, and you're missing the actual point.

It isn't that telling a girl that she is pretty is, itself, objectively bad.  The point is the observation that we, as a society, tend to tell girls that they are pretty or whatever instead of other things.  Of course her parents and teachers tell her that she can be whatever she want, but they aren't the only influence, and they aren't the most common one.  Even if her mom says she can become a scientist or a race car driver if she wants to, if everyone else including strangers, books, TV shows, whatever, repeatedly and consistently give her (and other girls) positive reinforcement for passive traits like being pretty, then she is likely to eventually internalize and emphasize those traits no matter what her parents say.
2014-03-08 05:22:34 PM  
3 votes:
Wow, this article seems to have threatened some Farkers.  Oh, wait, actually  it looks like just the usual lower 3% on Fark who are threatened by women in general.
2014-03-08 05:16:57 PM  
3 votes:

socially inept was taken: I think she has a point and you are all just sadly parroting the first one to post.  Perhaps read the article and make your own judgment.  Or don't.  It's probably too much for you to comprehend anyway.


Okay, how about I respond to this:

"Consequently it's no coincidence when those boys end up in science and technology careers, while girls tend to set their sights on lower-paid fields like cleaning, catering and childcare "

In the US at least, there is an education gap between males and females that means that women in their 20s who work full-time make more than men at the same age who work full-time. Women are also less likely to be unemployed than men. Saying that because women are less likely to work in STEM fields that they are resigned to cleaning shiat is just ignorant.
2014-03-08 04:26:58 PM  
3 votes:
So get your daughter a Lego set you brainless twunt.
2014-03-08 03:46:37 PM  
3 votes:
I love it when people compliment my children, but the theme is stuck in the same tired old groove. My six-year-old daughter is always "cute", "pretty", and "sweet"; while my seven-year-old son gets "smart", "resourceful", and "determined".

Did it ever occur to you that maybe your son looks like the spawn of an Orc and a Hairless Chihuahua and that maybe people were just looking to give him *any* compliment, the equivalent of a "[having] a nice personality" when trying to hook someone up on a blind date?
2014-03-09 12:08:07 AM  
2 votes:
The posters FTA were actually really inspirational to a graphic artist such as I am, so I made a couple of my own:

i743.photobucket.com
Hmm... should I see them on Etsy or Society6 or CafePress?
2014-03-08 08:21:37 PM  
2 votes:
Sounds like someone is either on the rag or got some sand in her cute, little vagina.  Seriously, since when is it a problem when someone compliments a girl on her prettiness.  What does she want: guys to tell her daughter that she is an ugly, fat skank?
2014-03-08 07:04:44 PM  
2 votes:

Gawdzila: Whether people know they have a trait or not, being praised for that trait is likely to cause people to pursue things that lead to more praise.


And god forbid people pursue happiness.  People should really just lock their kids in closets with a bag of dogfood and the end of a waterhose.  You know, to avoid influencing them, indeed, letting the world at large influence them.
2014-03-08 06:54:29 PM  
2 votes:
When life gives you lemons then go and get some sugar and yeast and make some booze.  This is a perfect opportunity for this woman to start making pink posters that tell her daughter to be brave and fearless and to jump off the roof with a sheet for a parachute and to run blindfold down a wooded hill and all the fun stuff that boys are used to doing.
2014-03-08 06:46:37 PM  
2 votes:
Hey stupid coont, if you do not like the posters then do not buy them.  Problem solved.
2014-03-08 06:04:43 PM  
2 votes:

Hermione_Granger:
Yeah, because boys go around told to be a princesses. It's not just the color, it's the content of the posters.


No Such Agency: To be fair those posters are pretty bad. Kids absorb the gender role limitations, spoken or unspoken, that we immerse them in. I don't mind pink but I'd love to see a pink shirt aimed at my daughter... that has dump tricks or dinosaurs or any one of the other things she should feel free to like, even if she also likes pink.


socially inept was taken: I think she has a point and you are all just sadly parroting the first one to post. Perhaps read the article and make your own judgment. Or don't. It's probably too much for you to comprehend anyway.


R1mbaud: I'd be inclined to believe it would be just as easy to do that (if not easier) without including gender specific toys where you have to make two contrasting things, instead of the same thing over and over. I think kids also simply notice the difference between their two parents or the people around them. I mean, I'm no expert but, I just don't understand this fully and would like to know more.


Sexual dimorphism in sociability has been documented in humans. The present study aimed to
ascertain whether the sexual dimorphism is a result of biological or socio-cultural differences between
the two sexes. 102 human neonates, who by definition have not yet been influenced by social and
cultural factors, were tested to see if there was a difference in looking time at a face (social object)
and a mobile (physical-mechanical object). Results showed that the male infants showed a stronger
interest in the physical-mechanical mobile while the female infants showed a stronger interest in the
face. The results of this research clearly demonstrate that sex differences are in part biological in
origin.

Sex differences in human neonatal social perception
Jennifer Connellana, Simon Baron-Cohena,*, Sally Wheelwrighta, Anna Batkia, Jag Ahluwaliab

Departments of Experimental Psychology and Psychiatry, Autism Research Centre, Cambridge University,
Downing Street, Cambridge, CB2 3EB, UK

interstellar_tedium: Sorry male and I agree with her, if you just have the knee jerk "feminism bad" response to anything like this then I feel sorry for all the females in your life.


It is almost like different genders are born differently...

/A man who likes to suck dicks? Born that way
//Woman in a non-STEM profession? Victim of the Patriarchy
2014-03-08 05:44:52 PM  
2 votes:
I've dated women who could be supermodels, women who - according to my friends - were sort of "sketchy looking".  I thought they were pretty.  I've known women who can drive a pro sticker at 170 MPH in the quarter mile and had the reflexes of a leopard.  I've works some amazingly talented female musicians and knew a woman sound engineer who laid down down one of the bets live mixes I've ever heard.  Mud ugly, traffic stopping, dumb as mud, knew math like I know how to scratch my ass, great cooks, lousy cooks, hypocrites, honest and compassionate, riggers and stage techs, mechanics, needlework and sheet of cookies stay at home mom types who can take the balls off a gnat at 50' with a .9mm.  And you know?  I'm beginning to think they're all, what's the... yeah, individuals with various strengths and limitations.  Sort of like men.  I doubt that any child who can count to potato is going to let their world view be influenced for ever by a poster.  Kids aren't that stupid.
2014-03-08 05:39:14 PM  
2 votes:
Boys and girls are different.  Things that are different cannot be equal.
But if advertising is having more influence on your spawn than you as a parent are, then you are a horrible parent.  You could try talking with your daughter and ask her which poster she would rather have, but then you'd have to actually talk to your child.  Just put her in front of the TV with "High School Musical" on and go back to checking the messages on your iPhone like a normal mother.
2014-03-08 05:34:52 PM  
2 votes:

Pattuq: I don't know about anyone else, but I like pretty, feminine "stereotypical" girls.  I'm not interested in dating or marrying another man.  I've met quite a few young women who behave like stereotypical men (rude, abrasive, macho) and it's a huge turn-off. 

My wife does girly things and looks feminine, yet is also smart enough to use her brain by thinking independently - something that following the pink poster does not automatically prevent, as many feminists seem to believe.  I will be teaching any future daughters I have the value of femininity, but also that of learning, creativity and independent thought.  The only people who seem to think those two things are mutually exclusive are feminists, which only shows how flawed and narrow their view really are.


I think you don't know what feminism is. If you'll be "teaching any future daughters [you] have the value of femininity, because "women who behave like stereotypical men...[is] a huge turn-off," you might want to consider teaching your daughter that life's not about pleasing men. Or you can be an unfit parent. Your call.
2014-03-08 05:12:13 PM  
2 votes:

No Such Agency: I don't mind pink but I'd love to see a pink shirt aimed at my daughter... that has dump tricks or dinosaurs or any one of the other things she should feel free to like, even if she also likes pink.


I agree.  I have been trying to find dresses with dinosaurs or trains or trucks on them.  I don't even care if they are pink.  I do buy her "boy" clothes with dinosaurs, frogs, astronauts, dragons etc on them.  She loves dinosaurs and trucks right now.  On the other hand I don't get bent out of shape when she gets a pretty pink tutu for Christmas.  She loves to dance!  I also bought her a kid's sized jingly belly dance belt.

I would like to think it would be the same way if I had a boy.  At her daycare there was only one boy in her room.  All the girls wanted their hair in ponytails, so he wanted it too.  The next day he came to daycare with hair too short to be put into ponytails.  One day they were all playing in the gym with some big pieces of sheer fabric.  I tied the fabric around the girl's waists to make skirts.  This boy wanted one also, so I gave him one.  I don't want to interfere with how his parents want to raise him, so I made sure it was not really skirt like and called it a cummerbund, but at least I didn't tell him he could not have one because he is a boy.
2014-03-08 05:06:48 PM  
2 votes:
What I truly can't understand is, how, in this day and age, does ANYBODY see telling girls they can be anything they want to be as long as they play fair as anybody else as somehow being "revolutionary".  That's pretty much the de facto standard, and should be.  But if she's pretty, too, she's being insulted, discriminated against and "held back"?  Seriously?
2014-03-08 05:05:18 PM  
2 votes:

FirstNationalBastard: So then buy the blue poster, you stupid twat.

You're biatching about gender stereotyping, then adhering to "pink is for girls, blue is for boys".

fark you and anyone who looks like you.


Yeah, because boys go around told to be a princesses. It's not just the color, it's the content of the posters.
2014-03-08 05:03:39 PM  
2 votes:
I spent yesterday afternoon watching my kids learn to skateboard. In between suppressing mental flashes of horrific child vs. pavement encounters, I noticed something: My son was a gung-ho, scraped-knees-be-damned force of nature, while my daughter held back, reticent and hesitant. When I asked her why, she said she was afraid of "doing it wrong".

Well Ms. Parmar, your daughter is only 6, so her reticence and hesitation was most likely learned at home.  So who do you blame now?
Also the 'doing it wrong' will most likely lead to getting hurt so being a bit 'reticent' seems pretty smart to me.

Yes I know she will never read this but I had to say it!
2014-03-08 05:02:47 PM  
2 votes:
Cormee:
Maybe if you were stroking your lad at the time there might be an issue. But I can't imagine any parent, myself included, being bothered by something like that. However there are always exceptions.

I don't compliment the appearance of kids or women. It's just not worth the risk to me. This is a crazy world full of overreactions and I avoid trouble when ever I can.
2014-03-08 04:33:42 PM  
2 votes:
I think that as a man that if I were to comment that a little boy is cute or pretty it would not be beneficial to my face or crotch region
2014-03-08 10:31:44 PM  
1 votes:
For me, it's not that women dress in a "non feminine" manner, it's that, by and large, Americans tend to either dress like attorneys or just plain badly.  The forties and fifties, if nothing else, had style.  I mean, face it, most of the people you see on the street look like they just finally got back from Woodstock and ate about a dozen èclairs on the way after stopping at the tattoo parlor.
2014-03-08 09:34:41 PM  
1 votes:
This woman is absolutely right, and I want to do something. But...the waitress just came by and asked if I want a private table dance, and I slid a dollar into her garter belt that was right next to her bingo card...I only come here for the fee wifi...
2014-03-08 09:05:14 PM  
1 votes:
I think we spend too much time pissing around with squinting at sh*t that would be more or less inconsequential if we spent more time doing stuff that mattered and simply iring whoever did it best.
2014-03-08 08:53:37 PM  
1 votes:
moeburn:  Does this still apply in fields where female employers are just as common as male employers?


I realize this is just anecdotal, but in every business I've ever been in with female supervisors, they mostly walked all over female subordinates and fellow female co workers like a cheap rug.  Women in the workplace, from my limited experience are knives out,  especially on the other females in the work place.  And they can but the "I'm in charge so that means I have to be a b*tch" hat on for any guy they think can't do anything about it.  A lot of women I've worked for and with have very f*cked up ideas about leadership.
2014-03-08 08:51:10 PM  
1 votes:
You know, this wouldn't be a problem if we'd just outlaw female writers.
2014-03-08 08:34:49 PM  
1 votes:
The problem isn't just that people do this for 6-7 year old kids.   People do the exact same thing in reference letters when they're applying for jobs

Even when they mean well, they tend to use different adjectives when writing letters about women then men.  The letters about women are much more likely to focus on their personality characteristics ("warm", "nurturing", etc.).  Meanwhile, when they're reading letters they view a letter-writer focusing on personal characteristics as a negative sign and because of this are less likely to hire female candidates.

For more details, see this 2009 study.
2014-03-08 08:16:44 PM  
1 votes:
moeburn:  Maybe you are the one who is stereotyping, and holding your own gender back? Maybe you shouldn't imply to young women that if they like to pretend they are a princess, and if they like to watch Disney, then they will grow up to have their lives ruled by men.


If you really want to cut through the crap with your kids, tell them that, regardless of what they think about life, how they self identify or whether they want to be a princess or an astronaut or both, they're probably going to have their lives rules by these.


img.rt.com


I mean, that is the rite of passage in the west, isn't it?


"Sorry about all the childhood malarkey.  Now hit the bricks and learn to make money"?
2014-03-08 07:57:35 PM  
1 votes:
Stereotypes usually exist for an actual factual reason. You know, like men and women are actually biologically different.
2014-03-08 07:40:45 PM  
1 votes:
i1.ytimg.com

How much for your daughter ??
2014-03-08 07:31:00 PM  
1 votes:

Gawdzila: Once again, it's a percentages thing.  Not all things influence everyone by the same amount.


agreed.
2014-03-08 07:28:22 PM  
1 votes:

omeganuepsilon: Gawdzila: Whether people know they have a trait or not, being praised for that trait is likely to cause people to pursue things that lead to more praise.

And god forbid people pursue happiness.  People should really just lock their kids in closets with a bag of dogfood and the end of a waterhose.  You know, to avoid influencing them, indeed, letting the world at large influence them.


Oh for f*cks sake.  I'm not saying that no one should ever be influenced by anyone or anything.  I'm saying that the types of things we encourage between girls and boys should be closer to the same.


bunner: I get that, but I am wont to believe it's pretty much the same reason a lot of boys don't end up doing that stuff.


But they DO end up doing that stuff.  That's the point.  It's one of the reasons why there is such a large gap between the number of men who go into STEM-type fields and women who do.  The traits and activities that are encouraged in girls don't lead to those things as readily as those that are encouraged in boys.


bunner: I still have difficulty believing that pink and blue and Barbie and He man are defining aspects of anybody's word view.


I think you'd be very surprised how much building things with Legos and tinker toys vs. dressing up dolls can influence the thinking of children.  Intellectually as an older person it seems silly, but behavior, thought patterns, and emotional responses are built upon a foundation that begins at a very young age.

Once again, it's a percentages thing.  Not all things influence everyone by the same amount.
2014-03-08 07:22:43 PM  
1 votes:

FirstNationalBastard: So then buy the blue poster, you stupid twat.

You're biatching about gender stereotyping, then adhering to "pink is for girls, blue is for boys".

fark you and anyone who looks like you.


RogermcAllen: The easiest and most obvious solution to this problem is for the mommy blogger to buy the blue poster for her daughter.


omeganuepsilon: What hangs in the child's room is the parent's responsibility.  Nothing is being forced here. If your child is exposed enough for them to be altered, that is the parent's fault.  TV, to movies, to video games, posters, toys, etc.


You're all missing the point and it's not that one poster might end up in one little girl's room.  The poster is just one example that the author felt compelled to write about as it represents the society wide problem with gender stereotypes.  And don't pretend that Mommy and Daddy can put their kids in a bubble that totally prevents exposure to social and cultural cues.

omeganuepsilon: Very similar to the feminist movement to protect women from advertising.  Do women need protecting, are they that open to suggestion and control?  The movement in and of itself can be an insult to strong women who actually strive for and may achieve equality.


PEOPLE are that open to that suggestion.  Popular culture and social pressure have profound effects on everyone.  Look at cross cultural studies or historical studies about how cultural attitudes are different in different times and places.  Our current culture and stereotypes aren't some immutable thing.
2014-03-08 07:21:27 PM  
1 votes:

FirstNationalBastard: So then buy the blue poster, you stupid twat.

You're biatching about gender stereotyping, then adhering to "pink is for girls, blue is for boys".

fark you and anyone who looks like you.


True.  Neither is labeled.  IT is her stereotyping that BLue is for Boys and Pink is for girls.
2014-03-08 07:17:25 PM  
1 votes:

orbister: Delta1212: /Otherwise, though, mommy's got a point and it's something I've noticed, myself. Compliments to girls are so disproportionately about looks that compliments about anything else are often used euphemistically for saying that someone is ugly. (See: She's got a great personality).

Absolutely. When people are introduced to little girls they almost always compliment them on their appearance ("That's a pretty jumper you're wearing"). This hardly ever happens to boys.


It sounds like you have limited life experiences. Or overly literal. (ie boys get called handsome and have their clothes commented on quite a bit)
2014-03-08 07:04:06 PM  
1 votes:
Went to the article with high hopes of pretty girls.  Leaving dissapoint.
2014-03-08 06:58:20 PM  
1 votes:

baconbeard: How do you explain highly successful women? How are they able to overcome these messages from "everyone"?


Because everyone is different.
Are you totally incapable of thinking in non-absolute terms, or what?  Must everything be either wholly responsible or irrelevant?

My point was that it is an influence -- an important one, but still only one of many.  It is a contributor.  It means that if you want to increase the number of women in various fields, that this is one of the problems that you have to take into account.


bunner: I suppose there's merit to that, but don't the other things become self evident?


Since when do things being self-evident have anything to do with how often people are complimented on them?  Athletes and scientists are complimented on their athleticism and intellect all the time.  People internalize praise.  Positive reinforcement is totally a thing, I promise.  Whether people know they have a trait or not, being praised for that trait is likely to cause people to pursue things that lead to more praise.


bunner: That's sort of my point. Isn't any young girl or boy, who are as bright as their parents repeatedly insist they must be, capable of identifying what's marketing, what's noise floor, what's wisdom and what's just people selling stuff? I know I could.


This stuff is beyond conscious thought.  Emotional methods of influence (like praise or punishment) still work even if you know what's going on.  Some people get past it and ignore it, some people don't.  Once again, I'm not trying to tout this as a 100% explanation for everything anyone ever does.  There is no such thing as a complete explanation for behavior, that's a ridiculous notion.  I'm saying that this is an influence.  We're talking about percentages of a huge population, and I think this is worth quite a few percentage points.  Yes there are still women who are astronauts and race car drivers and paleontologists who ignored all of that stuff.  But this article is about the women who DON'T end up doing that stuff, and why.
2014-03-08 06:38:15 PM  
1 votes:

No Such Agency: To be fair those posters are pretty bad. Kids absorb the gender role limitations, spoken or unspoken, that we immerse them in. I don't mind pink but I'd love to see a pink shirt aimed at my daughter... that has dump tricks or dinosaurs or any one of the other things she should feel free to like, even if she also likes pink.


I don't know what you're into, but to a NYC hooker a "dump trick" costs A LOT more.
2014-03-08 06:26:36 PM  
1 votes:

Hermione_Granger: FirstNationalBastard: So then buy the blue poster, you stupid twat.

You're biatching about gender stereotyping, then adhering to "pink is for girls, blue is for boys".

fark you and anyone who looks like you.

Yeah, because boys go around told to be a princesses. It's not just the color, it's the content of the posters.


1. It's the content of one poster.
2. What hangs in the child's room is the parent's responsibility.  Nothing is being forced here. If your child is exposed enough for them to be altered, that is the parent's fault.  TV, to movies, to video games, posters, toys, etc.
3.  The posters, from a quick GIS, appear to be from etsy.  Not exactly tinfoil hat material.
4. Go ahead and tell your boy to be a princess. See how well that works out for them.

Sure, gender roles exist.  A boy who's effeminate and such is going to face certain issues in life.  Sad?  Maybe.  Special case?  No.  It doesn't matter how a child is different, if they are they're going to be ostracized.  It's basic human psychology.  Do you want to encourage your child to act like others to get along, or to tell them they're a snowflake and spoil them?

Take it beyond that, and adults are expected to be much more professional and non-unique in the wider world.  Got an office job?  There's a dress code.  Got a court appearance? Job interview.? etc etc.  Everyone gets judged by our appearances(physical and attitudes).  Right/Wrong?  Just the way it is, because it does work.  Maybe not the ideal, but it does have a level of overall efficiency that's better than a large chunk of humanity.

If you don't like that, you could move to somewhere like Africa and live amongst a people who function on an entirely different societal pattern. Or more simply become reclusive.

But people like to meddle and make the environment conform to them.  Import one predator to do away with one pest, and now that predator over-populates and runs others out and becomes yet another pest.

Society is like that.  When you change the order of the eco system, there are effects, some of them far reaching, some you may not see for years, even decades.

Me, I see a lot of things wrong with society.  Being liberal may be the right idea, morally speaking, but it's also had it's drain on our way of life.  Spoiled snowflakes, nanny states and laws, obesity and laziness issues, people "unable" to find work.

If the trade off is WBC, Snake dancing faith healers, christian rule in general, and anti-vaxxers, etc, i'd take it in a heartbeat, but they're still around too.

I don't thing guiding your kid in a given direction is a bad thing, a really good thing when it actually fits.

Pushing them too hard is the same as any other form of abuse, but not guiding them at all is abuse as well, neglectful.

I think standard gender roles are that middle ground.  As long as you're not forcing your daughter into pink dresses despite their resistance, there's little anyone can do or say to prove that it's "wrong".

There are women who are submissive, and men who are dominant, who fit all the stereotypes to a T, even find joy in them.  What's wrong with allowing people to just be themselves?

That's my biggest problem with the liberal movement at large.  It always comes off as a strong woman anti-stereotype thinking that all women should be like her, which is the exact same fallacy as the "good wife" conservative push to make women be more like them.


Very similar to the feminist movement to protect women from advertising.  Do women need protecting, are they that open to suggestion and control?  The movement in and of itself can be an insult to strong women who actually strive for and may achieve equality.
2014-03-08 06:25:03 PM  
1 votes:
She wasn't afraid of hurting herself. She was afraid of not being good enough and looking bad. It didn't make sense - who was watching? Who would care? Why should it matter if she got it right as long as she was enjoying herself?

Oh dear. As someone who was like that as a child (except not a girl), I feel very bad for this kid. Rather than being accepting and encouraging, this mother has decided that her daughter has been broken by society and that this particular personality trait is the wrong way to be.

I'm sure it'll do wonders for the daughter's self-esteem.

/Otherwise, though, mommy's got a point and it's something I've noticed, myself. Compliments to girls are so disproportionately about looks that compliments about anything else are often used euphemistically for saying that someone is ugly. (See: She's got a great personality).
2014-03-08 06:23:36 PM  
1 votes:

Bender The Offender: If you can't find dinosaur stuff for a girl, it's from poor effort on your part.


Well there's all the "cute dinosaur" stuff.  And that's fine but my point is that kids' clothes and toys are still strongly segregated by gender, and it's not just that I'm too lazy to find the imaginary depot crammed with less-stereotyically-gendered clothes.
2014-03-08 06:19:47 PM  
1 votes:
And so you see, just maybe, most of this is vain malarkey that has nothing do do with how children feel about themselves or view this little blue planet or their place on it.
2014-03-08 06:19:20 PM  
1 votes:

bratface: I spent yesterday afternoon watching my kids learn to skateboard. In between suppressing mental flashes of horrific child vs. pavement encounters, I noticed something: My son was a gung-ho, scraped-knees-be-damned force of nature, while my daughter held back, reticent and hesitant. When I asked her why, she said she was afraid of "doing it wrong".

Well Ms. Parmar, your daughter is only 6, so her reticence and hesitation was most likely learned at home.  So who do you blame now?
Also the 'doing it wrong' will most likely lead to getting hurt so being a bit 'reticent' seems pretty smart to me.

Yes I know she will never read this but I had to say it!


I was thinking more along the lines of " there's boys that act like that too". As much as she would like a gender neutral upbringing for her daughter, she also needs to realize kids are individuals and don't necessarily have to like the same things.
2014-03-08 06:13:13 PM  
1 votes:
1.bp.blogspot.com
www.quickmeme.com

cdn.uproxx.com
2014-03-08 05:56:16 PM  
1 votes:

cuzsis: FizixJunkee: socially inept was taken: I think she has a point...

At the risk of sounding like a sandy vagina-haver, let me say "this."

We try to minimize any appearance-related comments to our daughter, and focus on more important attributes, like how smart she is, how creative she is, etc.

And I don't know if because of how we've raised her, or just plain ol' genetics, but the kid is ever-so-slightly tomboyish (though not nearly to the degree I was when I was her age...at least she'll wear pink, for example). She also loves video games, MythBusters, and Bizarre Foods.

/she actually *is* smart
//she has a physicist and mathematician for parents
///she and her dad spend hours each day playing video games together

Just to keep things interesting...

 I was made to wear very pretty and cute dresses as a child. Also pink clothes and such when my parents chose them. (Eventually I decided on blue jeans because they held up to my playing better).  I was told I was cute, adorable, lovely ect... all through growing up. During my teen years more than one person suggested I be a model. At the same time my parents demanded I apply myself at my best in school work, sports and art (whatever I was doing) and so I generally came back above average-extremely good depending on what I was doing.

 Now that I'm in my 30s, I'm still a geeky tomboy who loves archery, dogsledding, hiking, hunting, fishing, baseball/fastpitch, volleyball, computer games, coding, fixing my jeep and all kinds of science fiction.

 I'm pretty independently minded though, so that might've been a factor.

/tells her son he's cute/handsome along with other compliments about his hardwork and accomplishments
//he likes engineering and has taken an interest in horseback archery
///dad builds video games, mom is a school bus driver while building her own online business/blog



Jesus H Christ. Do you people ever get sore arms from all that patting yourselves on the back?

/your blog sucks
2014-03-08 05:52:23 PM  
1 votes:
It's like a Choose Your Own Adventure Book for idiots:


It's a typical Sunday afternoon. You're yet again pontificating (via twitter) to your 23 followers. Suddenly, someone posts some "Dream Big" posters to your twitter feed. You find these posters somewhat objectionable. What do you do?

To ignore them and actually "parent" your daughter yourself, turn to page 23.
To passive-aggressively post your histrionic outrage to your "blog" (and thus confirm what an awesome and progressive individual you are), turn to page 55.
2014-03-08 05:52:06 PM  
1 votes:
Montessori or home schooled I am thinking.
2014-03-08 05:46:39 PM  
1 votes:
She wasn't afraid of hurting herself. She was afraid of not being good enough and looking bad.

Hate to break it to you, lady, but your kid might just be a narcissist.

But this has to be trolling... "Well smiling is on the girl's poster, and not on the boy's, therefore society doesn't like boys to smile." The hell?
2014-03-08 05:34:35 PM  
1 votes:
You know, lots of people wish SOMEONE would tell them they are pretty.
2014-03-08 05:33:42 PM  
1 votes:

socially inept was taken: It is encouraging that schools are making more of an effort to increase their STEM curriculum for everyone.


Yeah, we definitely need more of that. As computers grow increasingly complex, they will become more and more of a blackbox. Everyone always says "oh, kids today know computer so well because they grew up with them." But 95% of kids can really only consume content that is created for them on facebook and the itunes store.
2014-03-08 05:29:06 PM  
1 votes:
How much for the little girl? How much for the women?  Your women. I want to buy your women. The little girl, your daughters... sell them to me. Sell me your children!
2014-03-08 05:26:28 PM  
1 votes:

bunner: Dafatone: Christ, this thread is full of assholes.

The straight-up "she's a woman blogging so she must suck!" is to be expected.  But the winner are the couple of "Well, yeah.  Girls should be like that because that's what I'm attracted to" idiots.

You forgot all the people braying about how all the other people posting here are idiots.


And all the "I'm (or my daughter) is not like all the other girls" posts.
2014-03-08 05:25:29 PM  
1 votes:

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: Saying that because women are less likely to work in STEM fields that they are resigned to cleaning shiat is just ignorant.


I completely agree with this statement.  I am able to read an entire article and see the various points being made without having to make one blanket response.  Which is why the generalized replies to the pictures included annoyed me.

It is encouraging that schools are making more of an effort to increase their STEM curriculum for everyone.
2014-03-08 05:22:31 PM  
1 votes:
Don't worry, she'll be begging men to tell her she's pretty while she's sucking them off in a bowling alley parking lot for meth soon enough, so, good job, mom.
2014-03-08 05:21:07 PM  
1 votes:
Sad for that child, having to satisfy her mother's expectations of hate.
2014-03-08 05:19:48 PM  
1 votes:

listernine: Tl;dr, sandy vagina, etc. etc...


I ordered a book called "How to be a feminist in three easy steps"

It was a diagram of a vagina, a bag of sand and a tampon applicator
2014-03-08 05:19:19 PM  
1 votes:

R1mbaud: I'm just not buying that the companies are intending to manipulate the gender stereotypes. It's aimed at the largely accurate trends between the genders in an effort to sell more things. Nobody is telling your little girl who or what to be like. Tell them that and don't be upset when they're complimented.


They aren't exactly manipulating gender stereotypes, but they're most certainly doing everything in their power to ensure that they literally grow a customer base. Sell the parents on "Princess" (ie: Girl) crap for their daughters and "Sports" (ie: Boy) crap for their sons before the kids are even born and the people surrounding the parents will inevitably follow the lead of the parents, sending "Princess" crap to the girl for birthdays, anniversaries, "It's Tuesday and I was thinking of you." days, etc. The girl grows into consciousness surrounded by "Princess" crap and it's what she begins to like.

Then she gets older and what does she ask her parents for (or demand)? "Princess" crap. Why? That's what she's always had, what she's always been given and what she's come to think of as "Hers". You toss in some of the other idiocy around it (just look at "Princess" Lego...) and suddenly those gender stereotypes are everywhere. Serious, go look down the toy aisle at Toys R Us or Wal-Mart or Target or whatever store sells toys and just look at the toys that are "Princess" toys. Lego shopping malls. EZ Bake ovens. Pink convertibles. Lots of miniskirts and high heel shoes on the dolls. MAYBE, if you're lucky, you'll see some doctors outfits, but mostly you're going to see just nurses and debutante outfits.

It may not be "Let's Manipulate the Gender Stereotypes!" but at the very, very least it's exploiting them to ensure a customer base literally grows up with them.
2014-03-08 05:15:49 PM  
1 votes:
No Such Agency:
Well no.  They don't care, they just make what sells.


So what is she really getting at? That people are manipulating the hormonal differences between genders who more often than not tend to be predisposed to certain things? Is she saying that genders are not predisposed to any sort of personality? Is there a sinister cabal plotting to keep women down by not complimenting their attributes that she has subjectively tied in with a specific gender? Or are the masses simply unaware and she's the light bringing beacon of hope bringing us out of the cave's of patriarchy? This isn't to say i disagree with anything you said at all, I am just genuinely not following her train of thought for the purpose of this article.

/@anyone who can help answer this.
2014-03-08 05:13:02 PM  
1 votes:
Oh, and you want to talk about gender neutral parenting? My daughter;s dreams of paleontology have died, she has now set her sights on becoming a government funded assassin for the CIA. She's 13 now. I've taken her shooting, teaching her to shoot both a Glock 19 and an AR 15. Everyone has told her how pretty she is her entire life. That has done nothing to dissuade her from her dreams of murder and world domination. Parenting makes all the difference.

/the assassin and teaching her to shoot thing are 100% true
2014-03-08 05:07:30 PM  
1 votes:

No Such Agency: To be fair those posters are pretty bad. Kids absorb the gender role limitations, spoken or unspoken, that we immerse them in. I don't mind pink but I'd love to see a pink shirt aimed at my daughter... that has dump tricks or dinosaurs or any one of the other things she should feel free to like, even if she also likes pink.


My daughter wanted to be a paleontologist from 4-7, she even named her first dog "Fossil". There are plenty pink shirts out there with dinosaurs on them. There are purple sweats with dinosaurs on them. There are nightgowns and t-shirts with dinosaurs on them as well. There are lamps, desks, and bedding. If you can't find dinosaur stuff for a girl, it's from poor effort on your part.
2014-03-08 05:05:48 PM  
1 votes:

R1mbaud: I'm just not buying that the companies are intending to manipulate the gender stereotypes.


Well no.  They don't care, they just make what sells.  and what sells is largely the dominant, girls-pretty, boys-tough heteronormative paradigm (at the risk of sounding like a women's studies thesis).  There are also companies that do quite well selling to people who reject this persistent norm, by selling more "progressive" toys and items for kids.  There's big bank to be made in that market, for sure.
2014-03-08 04:58:01 PM  
1 votes:

socially inept was taken: I think she has a point and you are all just sadly parroting the first one to post.  Perhaps read the article and make your own judgment.  Or don't.  It's probably too much for you to comprehend anyway.


The point of the article was that girls suck because they lack confidence.
Girls lack confidence because they are treated differently.
They are treated differently because their parents have inherent biases such as the fact that a pink poster is made for girls.

The easiest and most obvious solution to this problem is for the mommy blogger to buy the blue poster for her daughter.  With the confidence gained from the blue poster, the little girl won't give a shiat if someone else tries to treat her like a helpless princess.
2014-03-08 04:56:30 PM  
1 votes:

Dafatone: Christ, this thread is full of assholes.

The straight-up "she's a woman blogging so she must suck!" is to be expected.  But the winner are the couple of "Well, yeah.  Girls should be like that because that's what I'm attracted to" idiots.


You forgot all the people braying about how all the other people posting here are idiots.
2014-03-08 04:55:05 PM  
1 votes:
Marine drill sergeant to new recruit: "Did you look at my wife?"

Recruit:  "Yes"
(recruit gets rifle butt to face)

Recruit:  "No"
Sergeant:  "What, she ain't good enough for you?"
(recruit gets rifle butt to face)
2014-03-08 04:54:59 PM  
1 votes:
Clearly the right course of action is to make your own posters, in a nice gender neutral color, then let the free market sort it out.
2014-03-08 04:54:56 PM  
1 votes:
Take it down a notch, lady. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

That said, as the father of a daughter, I make sure that I compliment her about more than just her looks. She's only a year and a half, but I routinely tell her that she's funny, strong, intelligent, creative, etc. (and not just randomly, but when she actually does something funny, intelligent, creative). I want her to grow up knowing that her value is not just tied into her appearance. But there's also nothing wrong with getting a compliment saying you're attractive. As with most things in life...balance is the key.
2014-03-08 04:53:45 PM  
1 votes:

socially inept was taken: I think she has a point...


At the risk of sounding like a sandy vagina-haver, let me say "this."

We try to minimize any appearance-related comments to our daughter, and focus on more important attributes, like how smart she is, how creative she is, etc.

And I don't know if because of how we've raised her, or just plain ol' genetics, but the kid is ever-so-slightly tomboyish (though not nearly to the degree I was when I was her age...at least she'll wear pink, for example). She also loves video games, MythBusters, and Bizarre Foods.

/she actually *is* smart
//she has a physicist and mathematician for parents
///she and her dad spend hours each day playing video games together

2014-03-08 04:48:50 PM  
1 votes:
Your little girl just needs to get her Mrs. Before she is 25 to a financialy secure man . Who will keep her in the princess lifestyle she deeply desires.
2014-03-08 04:39:55 PM  
1 votes:
Dear Mom with issues,
The rest of us will try to bridge the gap between your crazy attempt at raising her and her first of many therapy sessions.  We are only trying to help until she can emancipate herself.
You are welcome,
Normal People.
2014-03-08 04:39:08 PM  
1 votes:
Hey gorgeous:  you're mom's an insufferable biatch.
2014-03-08 04:37:06 PM  
1 votes:
Tl;dr, sandy vagina, etc. etc...
 
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