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(Huffington Post)   Nine maps show why the South sucks   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 269
    More: Interesting, tort of outrage, souths, tobacco smoking, minimum wages, poverty line  
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17337 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Mar 2014 at 12:20 PM (37 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-08 05:00:45 PM  

TotesCrayCray: bidness: Most of these maps just show areas with heavy concentrations of blacks and hispanics.

Let's assume that what you say is true, mr troll and or dumbass. They're still Southerners. They live in the South and are a product of Southern society and environment. Unless you meant to damn those minorities for being a wart on the South. Which is racist. So either that comment was racism, and thus reinforces the stereotypes about the South, or it was to point out how badly the South treats minorities and limits the ability to get out of poverty, and thus reinforces the stereotypes about the South.

Good jorb, mr troll and or dumbass.


bidness has said extremely racist crap in at least three other threads before this one.  As far as I know it's all he ever does: come into a thread, say about the most racist thing one could imagine, and then leave.  Whether or not that constitutes "trolling" would require understand what is going on inside his head, and personally, I'd rather not.
 
2014-03-08 05:11:21 PM  

SquiggsIN: namatad: Not enough poverty to vote the repressors out of power. Not yet.

Republicans and Democrats have something in common.  They've both convinced millions to vote for a party that doesn't represent their best interests by making them afraid of the other side.


If anybody's playing the "Both Sides are Bad So Vote Republican" drinking game, time to drink up!
 
2014-03-08 05:19:14 PM  

ciberido: SquiggsIN: namatad: Not enough poverty to vote the repressors out of power. Not yet.

Republicans and Democrats have something in common.  They've both convinced millions to vote for a party that doesn't represent their best interests by making them afraid of the other side.

If anybody's playing the "Both Sides are Bad So Vote Republican" drinking game, time to drink up!


I was playing the Fark forum drinking game.

Step 1: Open a Fark forum.

Step 2: Drink until you are numb enough to survive the stupid.

Step 3: Read.
 
2014-03-08 05:36:42 PM  

Headso: Mrbogey: Hollie Maea: Saturn5: And yet, the influx of people moving here from the North East and West continues unabated.

Eventually that will lift you guys out of it. But not until there are enough of them to outvote you guys.


If their areas are awesome because of their politics then why don't they just stay there instead of spreading their derp... errr I mean enlightened liberal politics?

it's warmer in the winter...


Cuba is warm and is closer in terms of political thought to these folk.

They need to skip over the south and just move there instead. And hey, free healthcare too!
 
2014-03-08 05:38:38 PM  
Quite a lot of anger in this thread.  I guess the truth really DOES hurt.
 
2014-03-08 05:42:46 PM  

Headso: namatad: TV's Vinnie: And GW Bush was Yale graduate and allegedly a pilot to the F-1-4 Starfighter (a very, very tricky plane to fly).

Are you seriously white knighting W's brains?
ROFL

there's a video online of W debating for governor and the dude was pretty quick in his younger years, alcoholism ftl...


Yup. I have used that video to argue that W has had some kind of brain damage, either before his presidency, during, both or ongoing degeneracy.
That debate video actually shows a pretty intelligent and erudite W during his debate.

Once argument was that the pretzel choking incident cut off oxygen to his brain long enough to cause even more damage.


SquiggsIN: I think he was sarcastically doing the opposite.


DAMMIT!
I hate when I am sick and my sarcasm detector is broken. FFS

You are both correct.
 
2014-03-08 05:45:24 PM  

Dr Jack Badofsky: Excuse me, but the current administration has done anything BUT own any truth in its existence.  6 years in, and the previous administration is the sole cause of all of Obama's mistakes.


LOLWUT?

1) no one has ever claimed that President Obama is perfect or the chosen one. Other than his opponents.
2) it is politically impossible for any candidate to admit publically that they made mistakes and ever get re-elected.
3) Simple proof of Obama owning his own mistakes, he used to try and work with the GOP and after getting screwed OVER and OVER he stopped even pretending to work with them.

so yah
 
2014-03-08 06:02:46 PM  

cman: TV's Vinnie: cman: TV's Vinnie: cman: Did you fail 4th grade a few times? That's the grade when you start learning about the revolutionary war. Social Studies IIRC is the name of that class. To say that the southern folks sided with the British is stupid.

http://www.loc.gov/teachers/classroommaterials/presentationsandactiv it ies/presentations/timeline/amrev/south/

Believing the loyalists were strongest in the South and hoping to enlist the slaves in their cause--an objective that seems incompatible with a focus on Southern loyalists--the British turned their efforts to the South. In fact, the British had some important military successes in the South. They occupied Savannah, Georgia, in late 1778 and Charleston, South Carolina, in May 1779. They also struck a disastrous blow on General Horatio Gates' forces at Camden, South Carolina, in August 1780.

Believing loyalists were strongest in the south does not mean that they sided with the Brits.

You lose. Good day, sir.

No, you lose because all you got was "cuz I said so!".

I asked you for a citation showing me that southern citizens supported the Brits. You instead gave me a link that showed because the Brits THOUGHT loyalist support was best in the south. All that was was a link of Brits and their military strategy. Please give me the citation that I asked for


THIS IS WHAT cman ACTUALLY BELIEVES
 
2014-03-08 06:07:33 PM  

TV's Vinnie: cman: TV's Vinnie: cman: TV's Vinnie: cman: Did you fail 4th grade a few times? That's the grade when you start learning about the revolutionary war. Social Studies IIRC is the name of that class. To say that the southern folks sided with the British is stupid.

http://www.loc.gov/teachers/classroommaterials/presentationsandactiv it ies/presentations/timeline/amrev/south/

Believing the loyalists were strongest in the South and hoping to enlist the slaves in their cause--an objective that seems incompatible with a focus on Southern loyalists--the British turned their efforts to the South. In fact, the British had some important military successes in the South. They occupied Savannah, Georgia, in late 1778 and Charleston, South Carolina, in May 1779. They also struck a disastrous blow on General Horatio Gates' forces at Camden, South Carolina, in August 1780.

Believing loyalists were strongest in the south does not mean that they sided with the Brits.

You lose. Good day, sir.

No, you lose because all you got was "cuz I said so!".

I asked you for a citation showing me that southern citizens supported the Brits. You instead gave me a link that showed because the Brits THOUGHT loyalist support was best in the south. All that was was a link of Brits and their military strategy. Please give me the citation that I asked for

THIS IS WHAT cman ACTUALLY BELIEVES


Shouting memes doesn't give me a citation
 
2014-03-08 06:14:52 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2014-03-08 06:20:21 PM  

cman: TV's Vinnie: cman: TV's Vinnie: cman: TV's Vinnie: cman: Did you fail 4th grade a few times? That's the grade when you start learning about the revolutionary war. Social Studies IIRC is the name of that class. To say that the southern folks sided with the British is stupid.

http://www.loc.gov/teachers/classroommaterials/presentationsandactiv it ies/presentations/timeline/amrev/south/

Believing the loyalists were strongest in the South and hoping to enlist the slaves in their cause--an objective that seems incompatible with a focus on Southern loyalists--the British turned their efforts to the South. In fact, the British had some important military successes in the South. They occupied Savannah, Georgia, in late 1778 and Charleston, South Carolina, in May 1779. They also struck a disastrous blow on General Horatio Gates' forces at Camden, South Carolina, in August 1780.

Believing loyalists were strongest in the south does not mean that they sided with the Brits.

You lose. Good day, sir.

No, you lose because all you got was "cuz I said so!".

I asked you for a citation showing me that southern citizens supported the Brits. You instead gave me a link that showed because the Brits THOUGHT loyalist support was best in the south. All that was was a link of Brits and their military strategy. Please give me the citation that I asked for

THIS IS WHAT cman ACTUALLY BELIEVES

Shouting memes doesn't give me a citation


TWOLL HARDAH!!!
 
2014-03-08 06:22:30 PM  

TV's Vinnie: cman: TV's Vinnie: cman: TV's Vinnie: cman: TV's Vinnie: cman: Did you fail 4th grade a few times? That's the grade when you start learning about the revolutionary war. Social Studies IIRC is the name of that class. To say that the southern folks sided with the British is stupid.

http://www.loc.gov/teachers/classroommaterials/presentationsandactiv it ies/presentations/timeline/amrev/south/

Believing the loyalists were strongest in the South and hoping to enlist the slaves in their cause--an objective that seems incompatible with a focus on Southern loyalists--the British turned their efforts to the South. In fact, the British had some important military successes in the South. They occupied Savannah, Georgia, in late 1778 and Charleston, South Carolina, in May 1779. They also struck a disastrous blow on General Horatio Gates' forces at Camden, South Carolina, in August 1780.

Believing loyalists were strongest in the south does not mean that they sided with the Brits.

You lose. Good day, sir.

No, you lose because all you got was "cuz I said so!".

I asked you for a citation showing me that southern citizens supported the Brits. You instead gave me a link that showed because the Brits THOUGHT loyalist support was best in the south. All that was was a link of Brits and their military strategy. Please give me the citation that I asked for

THIS IS WHAT cman ACTUALLY BELIEVES

Shouting memes doesn't give me a citation

TWOLL HARDAH!!!


Where is my citation?
 
2014-03-08 06:33:34 PM  
Nine maps that promote Geobigotry.
 
2014-03-08 06:37:01 PM  
the idea that the south was loyalist during the revolution is laughable

the demand for a citation that they weren't loyalist is beyond asinine

perhaps the poster is confusing the revolution with the civil war 80 years later, where europeans were somewhat sympathetic toward the south, but only in the sense that a divided united states made the monroe doctrine moot
 
2014-03-08 06:41:30 PM  

Nadie_AZ: Why is racism so strong there? The wealthy convinced the poor whites that while they were poor, at least they weren't black. And a black person is less than a white person -even if that black person were rich an the white person were poor.


It's the basis for a very old racist joke:

"What do you call a black person with degrees from MIT and Harvard who runs a corporation worth millions of dollars, owns 4 houses, and has a net worth well into the high seven figures?"

"N****R!"
 
2014-03-08 06:43:46 PM  
Good thing we don't have Detroit in the south or we'd be in real trouble.
 
2014-03-08 06:45:22 PM  
Republican territory, coincidence?
 
2014-03-08 06:45:33 PM  

Hollie Maea: StanTheMan: Hollie Maea: StanTheMan: enry: Obviously these states aren't conservative enough.

Right, liberals don't want to enforce the border, and want to increase immigration by like 50% and give amnesty to illegals, and want to throw Sheriff Joe in jail for trying to do something about it, but it's a conservative policy problem that there are a bunch of poor Mexicans in border states.

For the record, libtards, I'm not sure where HuffPo gets its maps, but blue state California has 14% of the country's population, but like 34% of its welfare recipients. And about 34% of the country's illegals. Hmm, there's an interesting correlation...

Alabama is a border state?

Really? That's the best you can do? There's also a lot of poor black people who vote 99% Dumbocrat in the South.

Yeah, and the politicians they elected sure have screwed the region up, huh?

All those democrats politicians elected by southern blacks.


You do realize that almost all poverty programs are set at the federal level, right? The ones we can't even reform slightly or the Dumbocrats screech about how the GOP wants to throw children into the streets?

Libs have subsidized poverty with trillions of dollars since 1965. And how did that "war" work out? Permanent poverty, i.e., Democrat voters. That's the funny part. Libs say Republicans don't care about the poor, but who benefits most from poor people? The DEMOCRAT Party. God forbid we could make all poor people middle class, and you Dems would never win another election. So you'd better throw them just enough scraps to keep voting for you, but never, ever let them get ahead! Perma-Democrat voters!
 
2014-03-08 06:47:05 PM  

Cup_O_Jo: Nine maps that promote Geobigotry.


so you are saying that facts = bigotry?
Or are you saying that the maps are lies?

I would argue that without maps, that without data, that we would have no idea how to fix or address the problems that exist in society.

Unless you are arguing that these difference in our society are completely acceptable as is, which I consider pretty bigoted position to take.

But the again, I am progressive. I think that my taxes should be higher and that those taxes should be used to educate the poor.
 
2014-03-08 06:57:11 PM  
Please oh please just let the south be their own country so we can finally move forward with the evolution of the human race
 
2014-03-08 07:04:23 PM  

StanTheMan: Perma-Democrat voters!


I know you's trollin', but I do have a question: Looking at republican platforms at both the state and national level, and at the actions of their politicians at those levels over the last ten years or so, what exactly do the R's offer to women (especially those of childbearing age), to minorities, to non-Christians, to the LGBT community? Why should anyone who is not a wealthy white protestant straight male vote republican?

You can put your answer in a list of bullet points, no long explanations needed.

/BASBVWHO?
 
2014-03-08 07:05:50 PM  

Birnone: I would have liked to see how a 'religious activity' map might overlay on that. Does a state full of churchgoers, relative to the average state, tend to be southern? You can't fix things if you won't admit there's a problem, and people with strong religious convictions may be open to "...because God said" types of arguments against change.


I would presume that religiosity is also an effect of poverty, not necessarily a cause.  In the hope department, God is the cheapest lottery ticket there is.

SquiggsIN:
R's and D's are 2 sides of the same coin.  Neither one cares about anything beyond getting their coffers refilled, getting reelected to keep getting the coffers filled, blaming the other side, agreeing with the "opposite" party to give more money and control to the legislators.

So vote Republican?

cman: Believing loyalists were strongest in the south does not mean that they sided with the Brits.


Don't know where that conversation is going, but I have this to add:  If they didn't side with the Brits, then they weren't loyalists.   It's kinda the definition of the word.
 
2014-03-08 07:13:57 PM  
And those polls must have been taken somewhere other than the south. Texan by birth, southern by the grace of God!!
 
2014-03-08 07:17:45 PM  

Barbecue Bob: Denver here. Not North or South. Not east at all but not completely west.

The point is that we here can smoke pot legally and most of you cannot.

We win.

Suck it~!


s7.postimg.org
 
2014-03-08 07:20:38 PM  
well, they're right it does suck

now besides stupid biatching on the internet what can be done?
 
2014-03-08 07:34:47 PM  
I'm a yankee, moved to NC 8 years ago. I love it here.

Politics is made of people.

So are economies, religions, companies, and bowling leagues. Even Fark might contain some people.

There's good and right, evil and corrupt, everywhere.

I love it here anyway.
 
2014-03-08 07:44:11 PM  

namatad: 1) no one has ever claimed that President Obama is perfect or the chosen one. Other than his opponents.


Barbara Walters did. And she used the "we" pronoun.

Most didn't speak of him as a messiah but they certainly acted as such. He was to be a transformative figure in their eyes that would bring salvation for the poor (Hope!) and justice for the weak(change!).

namatad: 3) Simple proof of Obama owning his own mistakes, he used to try and work with the GOP and after getting screwed OVER and OVER he stopped even pretending to work with them.


That's the narrative he pushes however there never was any compromise offered except when he thought his policy would lose outright. Even Rep Bowles and Simpson have admitted as such after their commission suggestions were dumped by Obama.

cman: Shouting memes doesn't give me a citation


It's the new way of winning debates.
 
2014-03-08 07:54:33 PM  

wambu: Nobody ever retires and "moves North".


Most people who retire have a significantly decreased income, and need to find a dirt-cheap place to live.  Povertyland is cheaper for rent and groceries.
 
2014-03-08 07:54:46 PM  
It seems like most, if not all of these problems have been linked to poor education. Historically less educated people make less, get pregnant earlier, divorce more often, etc. Fix the education system, deliver well educated college ready applicants, up your literacy rates. C'mon guys, it's time to catch up with the rest of the nation. Looking at you Texas. Where Rick Perry leads, other deep red states will follow.
 
2014-03-08 08:35:26 PM  

Sammichless: Microsoft, Amazon, Paccar (which includes Peterbuilt), REI, Starbucks, Nordstrom, Eddie Bauer, Costco, etc


This is a complete tangent, but I interviewed for a position there last year knowing little about the company outside of its industry, and I was floored by how conservative and outdated the culture is there. I mostly went to the interview for sh*ts and giggles to begin with, but w/in five minutes time I felt I had been sucked into some time warp a good 40 years back.

/works for someone else on that list
//a place where I can show up in sweatpants if I wanted to
 
2014-03-08 09:25:07 PM  

TV's Vinnie: cman: TV's Vinnie: cman: TV's Vinnie: cman: TV's Vinnie: cman: Did you fail 4th grade a few times? That's the grade when you start learning about the revolutionary war. Social Studies IIRC is the name of that class. To say that the southern folks sided with the British is stupid.

http://www.loc.gov/teachers/classroommaterials/presentationsandactiv it ies/presentations/timeline/amrev/south/

Believing the loyalists were strongest in the South and hoping to enlist the slaves in their cause--an objective that seems incompatible with a focus on Southern loyalists--the British turned their efforts to the South. In fact, the British had some important military successes in the South. They occupied Savannah, Georgia, in late 1778 and Charleston, South Carolina, in May 1779. They also struck a disastrous blow on General Horatio Gates' forces at Camden, South Carolina, in August 1780.

Believing loyalists were strongest in the south does not mean that they sided with the Brits.

You lose. Good day, sir.

No, you lose because all you got was "cuz I said so!".

I asked you for a citation showing me that southern citizens supported the Brits. You instead gave me a link that showed because the Brits THOUGHT loyalist support was best in the south. All that was was a link of Brits and their military strategy. Please give me the citation that I asked for

THIS IS WHAT cman ACTUALLY BELIEVES

Shouting memes doesn't give me a citation

TWOLL HARDAH!!!


You're right that the South was more sympathetic than the North (though pro-revolutionary ideas weren't the majority in ANY part of the nation until very late in the war).  That said, you're an illiterate moron if you think the passage you posted proves that point.
 
2014-03-08 09:46:42 PM  

flak attack: TV's Vinnie: cman: TV's Vinnie: cman: TV's Vinnie: cman: TV's Vinnie: cman: Did you fail 4th grade a few times? That's the grade when you start learning about the revolutionary war. Social Studies IIRC is the name of that class. To say that the southern folks sided with the British is stupid.

http://www.loc.gov/teachers/classroommaterials/presentationsandactiv it ies/presentations/timeline/amrev/south/

Believing the loyalists were strongest in the South and hoping to enlist the slaves in their cause--an objective that seems incompatible with a focus on Southern loyalists--the British turned their efforts to the South. In fact, the British had some important military successes in the South. They occupied Savannah, Georgia, in late 1778 and Charleston, South Carolina, in May 1779. They also struck a disastrous blow on General Horatio Gates' forces at Camden, South Carolina, in August 1780.

Believing loyalists were strongest in the south does not mean that they sided with the Brits.

You lose. Good day, sir.

No, you lose because all you got was "cuz I said so!".

I asked you for a citation showing me that southern citizens supported the Brits. You instead gave me a link that showed because the Brits THOUGHT loyalist support was best in the south. All that was was a link of Brits and their military strategy. Please give me the citation that I asked for

THIS IS WHAT cman ACTUALLY BELIEVES

Shouting memes doesn't give me a citation

TWOLL HARDAH!!!

You're right that the South was more sympathetic than the North (though pro-revolutionary ideas weren't the majority in ANY part of the nation until very late in the war).  That said, you're an illiterate moron if you think the passage you posted proves that point.


Lemma guess.....

Another Suthurnur with a big case o butthurt. Right?
 
2014-03-08 10:12:17 PM  

Huggermugger: wambu: Nobody ever retires and "moves North".

Most people who retire have a significantly decreased income, and need to find a dirt-cheap place to live.  Povertyland is cheaper for rent and groceries.


And with nicer neighbors.
 
2014-03-08 10:23:47 PM  

HMS_Blinkin: Well, at least it didn't take long for the stormfront crowd to make an appearance in this thread....


You noticed that, too...
 
2014-03-08 11:27:24 PM  

InflamedGonads: [i860.photobucket.com image 800x525]


Fascinating. Perhaps you would like to share your data with us. How do you quantify "insecurity?" Do you measure by car weight? What are your sample sizes?
 
2014-03-08 11:29:36 PM  

iron de havilland: Lee451: All y'all yankees are free to go home. We promise not to stop you.

/Yankees are like hemorrhoids; when they come down and go back up they aren't too bad. When they come down and stay down they are a constant source of irritation.

So, the South is like a gigantic arse?


Everything between LA and Miami is called the taint because it taint Left Coast and it taint Right Coast.
 
2014-03-08 11:34:19 PM  
When General Sherman saw his campaign map he said the famous worlds:  "Either I am too damned drunk to read this map or else the font is too small. Let's just cut straight to to the sea."

True story, bro.
 
2014-03-08 11:40:05 PM  

DubyaHater: Yes, the south sucks so bad, I hear northern accents everywhere I go in Virginia and North Carolina. It must be so horrible here that New Yorkers and their like move here in droves. When I lived in NC, most of my co-workers were from up north.
/Try harder Huff Post


You know what Mark Twain said: "Hell for the company, Heaven for the climate." But enough tourist advice. Remember what General Sherman said:  "If I owned Texas and Hell, I would rent out Texas and live in Hell."

If he felt that way about Texas, imagine how he would feel about West Virginia today. West Virginia is a dagger pointed at the tender underbelly of Pennsylvania.
 
2014-03-08 11:49:44 PM  

Hilary T. N. Seuss: Judging from the maps overall, it seems that Virginia isn't part of the South, or at least not anymore.

/also, Michigan is fat


I was through Virginia once. It's a suburb of Washington as far as Richmond. The South gets Southern a bit further South., i.e., North Carolina. On the other hand, a considerable chunk of the North is pretty damn Southern. The Ohio River did not keep the Southerners out of Ohio. Maps can be quite confusing.

Did you know that bits of Canada are South of Detroit?
 
2014-03-08 11:55:47 PM  

macadamnut: Phinn: County-by-county provides more useful information.

So what is "American" ancestry on that map?


Merkins.

That map really shows the source of the problem: unlike the rest of America, it is full of Americans, white and African.
 
2014-03-09 12:11:34 AM  

bidness: Most of these maps just show areas with heavy concentrations of blacks and hispanics.


I can't imagine how blacks and hispanics are responsible for refusing federal dollars for health care, education and such. Are they complete Masochistic tards?
 
2014-03-09 12:41:08 AM  
imagizer.imageshack.us
 
2014-03-09 12:54:57 AM  
Demographics.......
 
2014-03-09 01:25:14 AM  
immigrants, immigrants, immigrants, immigrants, immigrants..immigrants, blacks, immigrants, immigrants,

Why don't you show those maps again while only taking into account real Americans?  You know, us white peoples.
 
2014-03-09 01:47:22 AM  

Killer Cars: Sammichless: Microsoft, Amazon, Paccar (which includes Peterbuilt), REI, Starbucks, Nordstrom, Eddie Bauer, Costco, etc

This is a complete tangent, but I interviewed for a position there last year knowing little about the company outside of its industry, and I was floored by how conservative and outdated the culture is there. I mostly went to the interview for sh*ts and giggles to begin with, but w/in five minutes time I felt I had been sucked into some time warp a good 40 years back.

/works for someone else on that list
//a place where I can show up in sweatpants if I wanted to


Costco let's their baggers wear sweats?

/sorry
 
2014-03-09 01:48:56 AM  
Perhaps it's a regional, economical, historical, cultural thingy.

But notice how often the colors match with non-regional, non-economical, non-historical, non-cultural buddies like Arizona, Utah, and Wyoming.
 
2014-03-09 01:50:06 AM  
Hollie Maea:

Costco let's lets their baggers wear sweats?

Fark you, Apple.  You don't know grammar as well as I do, so quit changing what I write.
 
2014-03-09 01:59:13 AM  
Data is inherently racist.
 
2014-03-09 04:41:41 AM  

rewind2846: StanTheMan: Perma-Democrat voters!

I know you's trollin', but I do have a question: Looking at republican platforms at both the state and national level, and at the actions of their politicians at those levels over the last ten years or so, what exactly do the R's offer to women (especially those of childbearing age), to minorities, to non-Christians, to the LGBT community? Why should anyone who is not a wealthy white protestant straight male vote republican?


Republicans offer liberty to control your own life. Democrats offer slavery for a government check.

Any more questions, fuknuts?
 
2014-03-09 05:01:11 AM  

StanTheMan: rewind2846: StanTheMan: Perma-Democrat voters!

I know you's trollin', but I do have a question: Looking at republican platforms at both the state and national level, and at the actions of their politicians at those levels over the last ten years or so, what exactly do the R's offer to women (especially those of childbearing age), to minorities, to non-Christians, to the LGBT community? Why should anyone who is not a wealthy white protestant straight male vote republican?

Republicans offer liberty to control your own life. Democrats offer slavery for a government check.

Any more questions, fuknuts?


But, why do the Republican areas of the country take all the Government checks?

You seem to be confused.
 
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