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(Some Guy)   Toronto used to be the leader in public transit that other cities looked up to. Today... well, see for yourself   (ttcriders.ca) divider line 85
    More: Fail, TTC, Toronto, TTC Sardines, TTCriders, tv channels  
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12073 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Mar 2014 at 7:35 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-08 07:38:59 AM  
Stompin' Tom is not amused.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xi96V96ZMHE

/of course, being dead, he wouldn't be.
 
2014-03-08 07:39:50 AM  
A leader? Way more expensive then most (gas + insurance for a vespa is cheaper then a metropass), and our subway system is that of a city a fraction of the size.
 
2014-03-08 07:42:16 AM  
When I was growing up in Toronto, early 60s, I had friends who father's never drove, didn't know how, they only took the bus and go train or street car it's was that good.
 
2014-03-08 07:43:26 AM  
Crowded? Try London underground. More packed, no aircon, and you pay twice as much for the privilege.
 
2014-03-08 07:44:08 AM  
B-b-but subway to Scarberia!!!!

Haven't been to TO for quite some time but I think if made it so the freaking streetcars didn't bunch up things would be a lot better. Seriously... you wait 40 minutes then you get three at once. It's ridiculous.
 
2014-03-08 07:45:10 AM  
wpmedia.o.canada.com
I'll give you two reasons this is no surprise.
 
2014-03-08 07:46:08 AM  

Lars The Canadian Viking: A leader? Way more expensive then most (gas + insurance for a vespa is cheaper then a metropass), and our subway system is that of a city a fraction of the size.


In the 1970s and 80s it was a leader. I don't remember the price back then but I don't think it was expensive. The suburbs hadn't sprawled out like they have now, so it covered a good portion of the population. But it's pretty difficult for any transit system to serve a metro that is developed around the automobile. Greater Toronto's density and land use patterns simply are incompatible with transit use.
 
2014-03-08 07:46:53 AM  
I take the streetcar a lot in the winter.  Most days it works perfectly fine but whenever there is a breakdown, on cars that should have been retired 15-20 years ago, the queues can become spectacular.  And that's when I fall back on that oldest form of public transport; walking.

/looking forward to the new streetcars hitting the rails.
 
2014-03-08 07:48:01 AM  
I just thought of something. With that freaking subway to Scarborough all the scuzzbuckets, urban rednecks and wannabe gangbangers are gonna have an easy way to get downtown. I bet the violent crime rate goes up.
 
2014-03-08 07:49:45 AM  
Babies.  Each of those photos shows a slow day on transit here in Tokyo.  Once you've had the combined weight of 50 bodies pressing against you on a train that jolts passengers from side to side every ten seconds, only to stop at a station and see another 16 people who want to come into the space you're presently occupying, then you can complain.

As for busy stations, more than the entire population of Toronto passes through my train station every day.  *That's* crowded.
 
2014-03-08 07:51:37 AM  

JasonOfOrillia: I take the streetcar a lot in the winter.  Most days it works perfectly fine but whenever there is a breakdown, on cars that should have been retired 15-20 years ago, the queues can become spectacular.  And that's when I fall back on that oldest form of public transport; walking.

/looking forward to the new streetcars hitting the rails.


When that happens all you have to do is walk up or down one block and catch one there. There really is no need for a car in TO if you are willing to give yourself enough time to get places.
 
2014-03-08 07:53:45 AM  
Oh and the TTC is only really cramola'd around rush hour. The rest of the time the streetcars, subways and buses are almost empty. At least that's how it used to be.
 
2014-03-08 07:54:25 AM  

s22.postimg.org


Laughs at Toronto's idea of being crowded.

 
2014-03-08 07:54:27 AM  
Things are always better elsewhere. The transit is better in Toronto, the healthcare is better in the U.K., the internet is faster in Belgium...well, that it unless they're not.
 
2014-03-08 07:54:42 AM  

Pattuq: Babies.  Each of those photos shows a slow day on transit here in Tokyo.  Once you've had the combined weight of 50 bodies pressing against you on a train that jolts passengers from side to side every ten seconds, only to stop at a station and see another 16 people who want to come into the space you're presently occupying, then you can complain.

As for busy stations, more than the entire population of Toronto passes through my train station every day.  *That's* crowded.


Thank you for reminding me why I live so far out in the middle of nowhere that I can't even see my neighbors' houses.
 
2014-03-08 08:14:07 AM  

Pattuq: Babies.  Each of those photos shows a slow day on transit here in Tokyo.  Once you've had the combined weight of 50 bodies pressing against you on a train that jolts passengers from side to side every ten seconds, only to stop at a station and see another 16 people who want to come into the space you're presently occupying, then you can complain.

As for busy stations, more than the entire population of Toronto passes through my train station every day.  *That's* crowded.



Go on...
 
2014-03-08 08:21:16 AM  
Okay... did a little digging and these clowns are TTC "activists". They basically b*tch and moan about anything and everything when the TTC is pretty well run compared to most major cities (not great but pretty good) then try to force the government to spend even more money on it. I'm guessing they are probably a puppet org for the transit union (not slagging unions but theirs seems a little sleazy) or perhaps the Ford bros.

CBC

Either way... these pics were part of a "contest" so people were actively seeking out the worst of the worst. Really if that's as "bad" as it gets at the worst/busiest stations at peak times (and there were probably breakdowns involved or other factors) then these people would probably curl up into a ball and cry dealing with other transit systems. Cripes... I was on a subway leaving Manhattan in the middle of the freaking night and it was almost as packed as some of those pics. Way to make the city look worse than it is over nothing you whiny douchenozzles.
 
2014-03-08 08:27:22 AM  
FTA: "All transit systems across North America get a much higher government subsidy per ride than Toronto does."

In Denver the subsidy is 2/3rds. In other words, a dollar from the fare and 2 bucks from taxes. This gives zero incentive for the transit system to improve - they actually make more money during a driver's strike than they do when "operating." Idiots voted for a bond issue for light rail for the suburbs, RTD blew the entire wad on studies and decided that buses are more efficient due to the low population density, which is EXACTLY what the opponents had said all along.
 
2014-03-08 08:27:39 AM  
I'm just glad DC's isnt that crowded.......yet
 
2014-03-08 08:35:01 AM  
Yeah, stupid article.  Pick the worst of the worst and present that as normal. TTC still gets you to within a 5 minute walk of everywhere you want to go within the city through a combination of subway, bus and streetcar.
Over the last number of years, I have noticed that it is getting dirtier and there seem to be more delays on the subway (at least now they wait at the station before moving on so you don't get stuck in the middle of a tunnel) but it still gets people where they need to go and relatively quickly.

It's usually even faster than driving (within Toronto) during rush hour.  I can get to work door to door in an hour by TTC, including a 25 min bus ride and driving is the same at rush hour.  It's cheaper than driving if you need to pay for parking downtown too.

They do need improvements but it's still pretty good.  And, the Scarboro subway is a stupid, stupid thing to do.  They really needed to stick with the light transit system.
 
2014-03-08 08:35:41 AM  
Well, I'm convinced. Mass Transit is for losers. Smash all the buses! Scrap all the commuter trains! Everyone go get an SUV. The more gas-guzzly the better!

oceanworld.tamu.edu
 
2014-03-08 08:38:07 AM  
On a side note, I think it's about damn time we got the drivers coming in from outside of Toronto to help pay for road maintenance etc.  Take a look at the highways at 0800, it's nuts. And then, we in the city get stuck with the costs of maintaining that transportation network.  Maybe it's time for tolls or something and then putting that money into road work and public transit enhancements.
 
2014-03-08 08:40:36 AM  

DigitalCoffee: [s22.postimg.org image 640x427]
Laughs at Toronto's idea of being crowded.


Agreed.  The TTC does have a lot of riders (almost ~2.8 million riders per day) and is packed during both rush hours, but it's nowhere near the crush of humanity that occurs in larger cities like Tokyo.

I'll take the TTC over driving in to the city any day.
 
2014-03-08 08:44:11 AM  
Takes me 20 minutes to get to work by bicycle, 40 minutes on the TTC.

'Course, if I ride my bike and get killed on the way to work, Rob Ford says it's my own fault.
 
2014-03-08 08:51:15 AM  

groppet: I'm just glad DC's isnt that crowded.......yet


That's because the escalators and elevators are always broken and people can't get down into the metro.

/Metro Center itself is shut today, WTF
 
2014-03-08 08:55:33 AM  
The problem is that politicians never have to take transit like we do.  They are probably driven to work by chauffeurs (especially if they don't want to get a DUI like our pal up there!).

Hell, their chauffeurs probably get chauffeured to work.

I remember T.O. once had a Mayor that bicycled to city hall,
 
2014-03-08 09:17:48 AM  

Drexl's Eye: Takes me 20 minutes to get to work by bicycle, 40 minutes on the TTC.

'Course, if I ride my bike and get killed on the way to work, Rob Ford says it's my own fault.


Stop the war on the car!

kidding.  I ride to work too when there's less snow on the road.  It's the better way.
 
2014-03-08 09:21:45 AM  
TTC isn't that bad. It's OK enough that I can get by without a car.

Could it be better? Damn straight. The political-pileup-mess Eglinton LRT tunnel is actually a good idea. The street is just way, way too cramped for the road traffic it receives, and thusly I avoid the Eglinton bus if I can. But there needs to be more! What about an elevated rail following the 401 through North York and Scarborough? That would be pretty easy to tack in - little digging required.

The GPS they've installed on all the buses helps immensely too. I can now see exactly how clumpingly farked up the Wilson route gets at 7:30 in the morning on my smartphone, and adjust my rage appropriately.
 
2014-03-08 09:36:53 AM  
I don't know if it's crappy because I don't live there anymore, but I loved that I could take public transit from Richmond Hill all the way to Union Station for like four bucks.
 
2014-03-08 09:42:20 AM  
I thought the crowding was intentional to utilize body heat.
 
2014-03-08 09:42:37 AM  
The TTC isn't that bad considering the size of the city and the number of riders. If you want to experience truly bad public transportation, you have to head to Ottawa. OCTranspo will screw you up badly.
 
2014-03-08 10:04:04 AM  

EngineerAU: Lars The Canadian Viking: A leader? Way more expensive then most (gas + insurance for a vespa is cheaper then a metropass), and our subway system is that of a city a fraction of the size.

In the 1970s and 80s it was a leader. I don't remember the price back then but I don't think it was expensive. The suburbs hadn't sprawled out like they have now, so it covered a good portion of the population. But it's pretty difficult for any transit system to serve a metro that is developed around the automobile. Greater Toronto's density and land use patterns simply are incompatible with transit use.

 www.trekexchange.com
www.wtr.ruNah. Moscow metro. All of Eastern-Europe for public transport.Saying Toronto has ever had the best is like saying USA has the best healtcare system. People believe it of course, but they also acknowledge that its because "socialist countries doesn't count".
 
2014-03-08 10:11:00 AM  

DigitalCoffee: [s22.postimg.org image 640x427]
Laughs at Toronto's idea of being crowded.


This. When I was in Seoul it wasn't unusual to miss my stop by one or two stations because it was impossible to even move, it was so crowded.

I hate the TTC too, but posting images of crowded vehicles and complaining is so stupid I can hardly stand it.
 
2014-03-08 10:23:47 AM  
Say what you will of NYC's mass transit system...it's dingy and rundown looking....but it actually works pretty well most of the time.
 
2014-03-08 10:39:24 AM  
The TTC used to be the winner of the annual best transit award in the 80s. It worked really well and the staff were great. Fast and efficient. But subsequent city governments did not put what was needed into it for it to keep pace with the growth and density. Today the city government is pretty useless in stopping condo overcrowding. Condo owners tend to not have cars, so more overcrowding. At my stop, dundas, if you do not get on the subway by 5, you can't get on till 5:30-5:45 because it is packed solid.
 
2014-03-08 10:54:36 AM  

here to help: Okay... did a little digging and these clowns are TTC "activists". They basically b*tch and moan about anything and everything when the TTC is pretty well run compared to most major cities (not great but pretty good) then try to force the government to spend even more money on it. I'm guessing they are probably a puppet org for the transit union (not slagging unions but theirs seems a little sleazy) or perhaps the Ford bros.

CBC

Either way... these pics were part of a "contest" so people were actively seeking out the worst of the worst. Really if that's as "bad" as it gets at the worst/busiest stations at peak times (and there were probably breakdowns involved or other factors) then these people would probably curl up into a ball and cry dealing with other transit systems. Cripes... I was on a subway leaving Manhattan in the middle of the freaking night and it was almost as packed as some of those pics. Way to make the city look worse than it is over nothing you whiny douchenozzles.


That's the point.

/subby
//has been on standing room only trains at 9PM
 
2014-03-08 11:06:02 AM  

Electrify: That's the point.

/subby
//has been on standing room only trains at 9PM


Oh, it's you. Which train? Downtown after a hockey game is letting out? I rode the TTC off and on for years at all hours and at 9pm it is extremely rare to get on a crammed anything except after big events downtown or on the weekends in the "entertainment" district when all the douchebag suburbanites are flooding the city. Do you mean you had to stand a couple times because there were no seats left? Oh the horror. That's not "sardine" level of overcrowding. That is normal and why they have grab bars everywhere. Wait a couple stops and a seat will open up.

But vote for RoFo again. He'll save you from all misery. Promise.
 
2014-03-08 11:06:57 AM  

Lars The Canadian Viking: A leader? Way more expensive then most (gas + insurance for a vespa is cheaper then a metropass), and our subway system is that of a city a fraction of the size.


You need insurance for a scooter in Canada?
 
2014-03-08 11:08:09 AM  

katerbug72: I don't know if it's crappy because I don't live there anymore, but I loved that I could take public transit from Richmond Hill all the way to Union Station for like four bucks.


Assuming you are talking about the GO train, adult cash fare is now $6.45 (plus $0.75 to take the bus to/from the station). Using a smartcard the fare drops to $5.81 (plus $0.75 to take the bus to/from the station). Taking the Viva and subway costs $7 or $6 respectively.

/also from Richmond Hill
 
2014-03-08 11:12:17 AM  
Oh and I agree with the sentiment that the TTC was NEVER a leader in public transit. It's better than many systems but by no means awe inspiring or cutting edge. The Candian right wing have been trying to make this a wedge issue for some reason. It's weird. I'm assuming there are contractors pressuring them into pushing a bunch of unnecessary and wasteful construction projects on the public.
 
2014-03-08 11:14:58 AM  

Electrify: katerbug72: I don't know if it's crappy because I don't live there anymore, but I loved that I could take public transit from Richmond Hill all the way to Union Station for like four bucks.

Assuming you are talking about the GO train, adult cash fare is now $6.45 (plus $0.75 to take the bus to/from the station). Using a smartcard the fare drops to $5.81 (plus $0.75 to take the bus to/from the station). Taking the Viva and subway costs $7 or $6 respectively.

/also from Richmond Hill


Which is still ridiculously cheap. The GO system is freaking awesome for how far you can go for how little. The GTA is a huge area. Hell, the GO lines reach all the way out past freaking Durham Region.
 
2014-03-08 11:18:01 AM  
The worst part of the TTC is the unpredictability of it. There have been many times when I've been 30-60 minutes late to where I was going because of a subway delay and if shuttle buses were ordered to accommodate it, it took 30 minutes for them to show up. I know that shuttle buses aren't always at the ready, but don't tell your customers "they're coming" when you could say "we expect them in about 20 minutes" so you can weigh your options.

Ideally, there would be more subway lines, but I know that can't happen overnight.
 
2014-03-08 11:28:34 AM  

Bedstead Polisher: The worst part of the TTC is the unpredictability of it. There have been many times when I've been 30-60 minutes late to where I was going because of a subway delay and if shuttle buses were ordered to accommodate it, it took 30 minutes for them to show up. I know that shuttle buses aren't always at the ready, but don't tell your customers "they're coming" when you could say "we expect them in about 20 minutes" so you can weigh your options.


Yeah, like I said they bunch things up for seemingly no reason. I've been in street car stations and they'll have them piling up until they are almost backed up to the street and you'll STILL be waiting for 20 minutes until the first clown pulls his ass out of the little breakrooms they have. It is a serious timing issue that I think has something to do with the unions backing up the lazier/surlier drivers instead of common sense.

However the subway delays tend to be jumpers. There are a LOT of people who off themselves on those tracks. They just keep it out of the news because... well it's creepy. Could be urban legend but I've heard this first and second hand from TTC employees and first responders.
 
2014-03-08 11:29:50 AM  
This would literally cause the leaders' heads in NC to assplode.  You want more tax money to support something that is already taking gas tax money out of our coffers??

[home of the proposed EV tax for not using gasoline]
 
2014-03-08 11:43:22 AM  

here to help: Bedstead Polisher: The worst part of the TTC is the unpredictability of it. There have been many times when I've been 30-60 minutes late to where I was going because of a subway delay and if shuttle buses were ordered to accommodate it, it took 30 minutes for them to show up. I know that shuttle buses aren't always at the ready, but don't tell your customers "they're coming" when you could say "we expect them in about 20 minutes" so you can weigh your options.

Yeah, like I said they bunch things up for seemingly no reason. I've been in street car stations and they'll have them piling up until they are almost backed up to the street and you'll STILL be waiting for 20 minutes until the first clown pulls his ass out of the little breakrooms they have. It is a serious timing issue that I think has something to do with the unions backing up the lazier/surlier drivers instead of common sense.

However the subway delays tend to be jumpers. There are a LOT of people who off themselves on those tracks. They just keep it out of the news because... well it's creepy. Could be urban legend but I've heard this first and second hand from TTC employees and first responders.


I used to live on College St, so I would see delays firsthand from my window, especially in winter. All it took to cause a delay was for some jackass to park their car far enough away from the curb (because of snow) that the streetcar couldn't get around them and next thing you know there's 2-3 streetcars sitting in the street beeping their horns and waiting for the jackass parker to move their car.

Last night I was on a train for 30 minutes because someone on the train had a medical emergency. I assume it was quite serious as a) we were there for 30 minutes, but EMS were on the train within minutes, b) the ill passenger was not moved from the train, but received help on the train. This was about 6:30pm.
I know these delays are unpredictable, but there has to be a better system in place to deal with them.
 
2014-03-08 11:45:39 AM  

Drexl's Eye: Takes me 20 minutes to get to work by bicycle, 40 minutes on the TTC.

'Course, if I ride my bike and get killed on the way to work, Rob Ford says it's my own fault.


If you ride your bike and get killed on the way to work there's also a high likelihood that it was Rob Ford driving drunk
 
2014-03-08 11:49:38 AM  
Live somewhere with an anemic bus system instead and then you can complain.  The local idea of mass transit is a spoke system where everything is funnelled downtown where you have to switch buses, and for your convience the bus you want to switch to always left 2 minutes ago and its a half hour until the next.  I lived in Chicago and commuted on the El for years, I lasted 1 year on the bus here before getting a car because I just could not stand the waits (it takes me 10-15 minutes to drive including finding parking, it was taking me about an hour each way on the bus, sometime much more).
 
2014-03-08 12:06:27 PM  
I just thought of something. With that freaking subway to Scarborough all the scuzzbuckets, urban rednecks and wannabe gangbangers are gonna have an easy way to get downtown. I bet the violent crime rate goes up.

Ah! Ok. So thats why Rob Ford wants this extension. More of his kind in the downtown core.
 
2014-03-08 12:09:32 PM  

Bedstead Polisher: I used to live on College St, so I would see delays firsthand from my window, especially in winter. All it took to cause a delay was for some jackass to park their car far enough away from the curb (because of snow) that the streetcar couldn't get around them and next thing you know there's 2-3 streetcars sitting in the street beeping their horns and waiting for the jackass parker to move their car.


Yeah, the whole not being able to go AROUND stuff is a serious flaw in the whole streetcar concept. Kind of a joke really. I do like streetcars better than buses for many reasons but that simple fact is a MAJOR drawback. If all the streetcar tracks were designed like the redesign they did on Spadina (dedicated streetcar lanes in the middle of the street with concrete barriers separating them from traffic, for those not familiar with TO) they'd be awesome but that was a very expensive and disruptive overhaul and you need a wide street to start with which many places just do not have (like Queen St). It'd be doable though if they eliminated street parking on those roads but then you'd have to have a parking lot on every block. Personally I think many streets should simply be car free (just allowing delivery vehicles). Make people park on the lesser used roads or have designated sites and with their parking fee they get a free two way TTC pass for use on the closest artery. Like let's say you want to go shopping on Queen or work there. Instead of parking right on Queen you park in a lot, get a two way ticket good for the Queen streetcar so you can go do whatever then get back to your car.

I've even thought that there should be a dedicated courier service using Euro style mini cargo vans that load up at designated areas then drop off merchandise to the stores so all the little shops don't have a ton of huge trucks dropping sh*t off blocking traffic. Also force the shops to use the back alleys for drop offs if they have service doors in the back.

Places like Kensington Market and Queen St W could REALLY use that type of set up.
 
2014-03-08 12:10:37 PM  
Apparently you've never been to Singapore.

/Jack Sparrow
 
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