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(Daily Mail)   Have YOU ever had an out-of-body experience? This woman can leave her body at will: "People only retain the ability to have them if they practice from childhood, researchers think these experiences could be more common than previously thought"   (dailymail.co.uk ) divider line
    More: Interesting, brain activity  
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5062 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Mar 2014 at 9:49 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-07 10:06:39 PM  
4 votes:

secularsage: Easily tested. And easily debunked.

All you have to do is construct a double-blind test where she is required to "have an out of body experience" and use her capability to determine something that she couldn't ordinarily see (like a simple but unguessable message on a sign that is placed on the back of her chair).

She would be tested against a control group asked to perform the same task several different times. The researchers administering the test wouldn't know who was the test subject and who was in the control group. If she doesn't score better than the control group, it's bogus.

My suspicion is that she truly, honestly  believes she has this ability, but it's all in her head.

/That researchers are interested in scanning her brain is not validation of her ability; it's an attempt to understand how her brain behaves differently so they can attempt to understand which regions of the brain are impacted by the delusion. That's all. As usual, the Daily Fail gets the science almost entirely wrong.


The study doesn't aim to show that out of body experiences are actually that, but that the experience involves deactivation/inhibition of the visual cortex and lots of use of the temporal gyri, associated with kinesthetic perception (among other things). Which means she's able to control her brain in such a way that she perceives movement and leaving her body, not necessarily that she actually does. Don't assume a study does anything other than what it says it does.

/biggest problem with non-scientists attempting to read primary literature AND popular articles about science
2014-03-07 10:01:00 PM  
3 votes:
Easily tested. And easily debunked.

All you have to do is construct a double-blind test where she is required to "have an out of body experience" and use her capability to determine something that she couldn't ordinarily see (like a simple but unguessable message on a sign that is placed on the back of her chair).

She would be tested against a control group asked to perform the same task several different times. The researchers administering the test wouldn't know who was the test subject and who was in the control group. If she doesn't score better than the control group, it's bogus.

My suspicion is that she truly, honestly  believes she has this ability, but it's all in her head.

/That researchers are interested in scanning her brain is not validation of her ability; it's an attempt to understand how her brain behaves differently so they can attempt to understand which regions of the brain are impacted by the delusion. That's all. As usual, the Daily Fail gets the science almost entirely wrong.
2014-03-08 12:03:14 AM  
2 votes:

God-is-a-Taco: We'd already have astral soldiers in Afghanistan if this had any merit to it.
I can empathize with the desire for magic to exist in this short life of ours (or that there's a next life) but it should not come at the cost of legitimate science and medicine.


This is legitimate science.

Nobody - from the woman involved to the researchers - is suggesting that she actually leaves her body.  They are studying the perception of having left the body.  The woman is well aware that this is a mental state she is consciously bringing on.  The researchers are gathering neurological data on the biology behind this altered state of perception.
2014-03-07 10:00:24 PM  
2 votes:
If I could get out of this wreck I wouldn't come back
2014-03-07 09:55:52 PM  
2 votes:
Get back to me when you can paint things on her forehead, and have her describe them to you.
2014-03-07 09:53:05 PM  
2 votes:
Define "define".
2014-03-07 09:51:53 PM  
2 votes:

SecretAgentWoman: I've had "lucid dreams" which I think is similar, if not the same damn thing.


Lucid dreams are awesome. I always feel so alive afterward, even the odd nightmarish one I fail to mentally overcome.
2014-03-07 09:51:08 PM  
2 votes:
Define "legitimate news source"
2014-03-07 09:13:20 PM  
2 votes:
Define "researchers."
2014-03-07 08:27:23 PM  
2 votes:
I've had "lucid dreams" which I think is similar, if not the same damn thing.
2014-03-08 02:29:57 AM  
1 vote:
Our brains are squishy holodecks. It's both cool and tragic. I would bet a trillion bucks that a lot of the worst of human history has been influenced by kooks who swore what they felt, saw, and heard was real when in reality it was nothing more than an isolated construct generated in their own heads. It felt real of course. But why wouldn't it? It's all coming from the very tub of goo that generates and processes all your sensations and emotions. And where else is god going to tell you that you're awesome, people should listen to you, and if they don't, they deserve to burn?

Get back to me when there's unequivocal proof that Professor Moriarty is using the Arch to cause trouble  outsideof the holodeck.
2014-03-08 12:16:00 AM  
1 vote:

doloresonthedottedline: I was actually reading about it last night (yay insomnia!) and just found out that one of the ways they tested to see if the people were actually conscious or just dreaming they were conscious was to have them do certain signals with their eyes, since that's one thing that you can still somewhat control while you're dreaming. Which is interesting because my most vivid lucid dream, I shut my eyes as hard and tight as I could to try and wake myself up, and it seemed to work.


Stephen LaBerge did some of the better studies on this in the 80's and 90's. He used an EEG to record eye signals during lucid dreams in order to show that perceived time is the same in dreams as while awake. Other researchers have done similar experiments in recent years.

There's not yet much you can do without expensive equipment but the idea of communicating with the outside world from a dream has always interested me. Though our bodies are partially blind and paralyzed while asleep, blind people can read braille and people like Stephen Hawking are partially paralyzed. Perhaps one day people will post on Fark in their dreams.
2014-03-07 11:20:13 PM  
1 vote:

Kevin72: All the debunkers denying a spiritual universe and double blind studies are as trapped in a mere three dimensions as the flat-earthers and geocentric universe were in Columbus' and Galileo's day were trapped in two dimensions. Remember: nothing is true until we scientifically can prove it in a replicable experiment.


I will say this, Rupert Sheldrake has some compelling data. From his google tech talk I thought he was a kook at first until he starts disclosing his methods and data, which on the outset appear to be sound.

He openly discusses his data and doesn't shy away from challenges to it, and he appears to be operating in the bounds of scientific rigor even though he his discounted seemingly from bias.
2014-03-07 10:15:03 PM  
1 vote:
Step forward little Miss.

img.fark.net

He has a test for you and if you pass, you win a million bucks!
2014-03-07 10:11:22 PM  
1 vote:
Can she do it while awake? Or does she have to be asleep? Why are out-of-body-experiences indistinguishable from dreams?

What does the body do when you're "away" from it? Are you conscious of it or anything happening to it? Can someone melt an ice cube on your neck or burn a cigarette butt on your forearm without you stirring? Let's try it and see.
2014-03-07 10:10:19 PM  
1 vote:

Mr Rusty Shackleford: Lucid dreams for me are often accompanied by sleep paralysis and varying levels of terror.  Not so great for me.

There is a reasonable body of evidence to suggest out of body experiences and near death experiences are related to natural DMT in the body, e.g. the work of Rick Strassman and others.

Also, I recall reading about hospitals who have begun to place novel objects and images above areas in which near death/out of body experiences might occur.  Typically hidden from ground-level view atop shelving or cabinetry in the hospital rooms.  The thinking is that the potential exists that someone could have one of these experiences, "levitate" or whatever... and be able to later articulate objects hidden above them they would not have seen or known existed unless there was merit to their experience.

Interesting stuff IMO.  There is more to life and consciousness than meets the eye.


Its called the AWARE project
2014-03-07 10:08:14 PM  
1 vote:
2014-03-07 10:06:50 PM  
1 vote:

MrEricSir: SecretAgentWoman: I've had "lucid dreams" which I think is similar, if not the same damn thing.

I had nightmares sometimes as a kid, and one night something sort of "clicked" when I realized I didn't have to go along with the nightmare and could make my own choices. It was over a decade later that I learned this was a common phenomenon, thanks to the 1997 edition of the Internet Yellow Pages.
What this woman's describing definitely sounds like an advanced form of lucid dream induction.


Whenever I begin to become aware that I'm dreaming I always start looking for a cute chick to have sex with. Is that weird?
2014-03-07 10:02:58 PM  
1 vote:

Shostie: Define "researchers."


Frontiers in Neuroscience is a reputable journal (my lab has published there a few times as well). Seems like an out-of-body experience is just using your imagination really hard.

/same thing has happened to me on shrooms a few times.
//also after smoking too much weed
2014-03-07 10:02:50 PM  
1 vote:
She ate the Wal Mart bottom round steak.
2014-03-07 10:00:51 PM  
1 vote:

Mr Rusty Shackleford: Interesting stuff IMO. There is more to life and consciousness than meets the eye.


And for the low, low, price of only four payments of $17.99 we'll send you the Meaning of Life.
2014-03-07 09:55:42 PM  
1 vote:
Isn't this what psychiatrists call a dissociative episode. The same thing happened to me when I got hit by a car at age 9 or that time I was really bored and drank some dextromethorphan.
2014-03-07 09:52:29 PM  
1 vote:
No she can not.
 
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