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(Daily Mail)   Have YOU ever had an out-of-body experience? This woman can leave her body at will: "People only retain the ability to have them if they practice from childhood, researchers think these experiences could be more common than previously thought"   (dailymail.co.uk ) divider line
    More: Interesting, brain activity  
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5066 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Mar 2014 at 9:49 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



111 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-03-07 08:27:23 PM  
I've had "lucid dreams" which I think is similar, if not the same damn thing.
 
2014-03-07 09:13:20 PM  
Define "researchers."
 
2014-03-07 09:51:08 PM  
Define "legitimate news source"
 
2014-03-07 09:51:53 PM  

SecretAgentWoman: I've had "lucid dreams" which I think is similar, if not the same damn thing.


Lucid dreams are awesome. I always feel so alive afterward, even the odd nightmarish one I fail to mentally overcome.
 
2014-03-07 09:52:29 PM  
No she can not.
 
2014-03-07 09:53:04 PM  
If you had an out of body experience, how would you know?
 
2014-03-07 09:53:05 PM  
Define "define".
 
2014-03-07 09:53:06 PM  
High quality / high potency salvia divinorum extracts are sold legally online.
 
2014-03-07 09:55:25 PM  
 
2014-03-07 09:55:42 PM  
Isn't this what psychiatrists call a dissociative episode. The same thing happened to me when I got hit by a car at age 9 or that time I was really bored and drank some dextromethorphan.
 
2014-03-07 09:55:52 PM  
Get back to me when you can paint things on her forehead, and have her describe them to you.
 
2014-03-07 09:57:36 PM  
Lucid dreams for me are often accompanied by sleep paralysis and varying levels of terror.  Not so great for me.

There is a reasonable body of evidence to suggest out of body experiences and near death experiences are related to natural DMT in the body, e.g. the work of Rick Strassman and others.

Also, I recall reading about hospitals who have begun to place novel objects and images above areas in which near death/out of body experiences might occur.  Typically hidden from ground-level view atop shelving or cabinetry in the hospital rooms.  The thinking is that the potential exists that someone could have one of these experiences, "levitate" or whatever... and be able to later articulate objects hidden above them they would not have seen or known existed unless there was merit to their experience.

Interesting stuff IMO.  There is more to life and consciousness than meets the eye.
 
2014-03-07 09:58:34 PM  

SecretAgentWoman: I've had "lucid dreams" which I think is similar, if not the same damn thing.


I had nightmares sometimes as a kid, and one night something sort of "clicked" when I realized I didn't have to go along with the nightmare and could make my own choices. It was over a decade later that I learned this was a common phenomenon, thanks to the 1997 edition of the Internet Yellow Pages.
What this woman's describing definitely sounds like an advanced form of lucid dream induction.
 
2014-03-07 09:58:59 PM  

Meisaims: Get back to me when you can paint things on her forehead, and have her describe them to you.


This. My idea was to tape a playing card to her forehead, but your idea works, too.
 
2014-03-07 10:00:24 PM  
If I could get out of this wreck I wouldn't come back
 
2014-03-07 10:00:51 PM  

Mr Rusty Shackleford: Interesting stuff IMO. There is more to life and consciousness than meets the eye.


And for the low, low, price of only four payments of $17.99 we'll send you the Meaning of Life.
 
2014-03-07 10:01:00 PM  
Easily tested. And easily debunked.

All you have to do is construct a double-blind test where she is required to "have an out of body experience" and use her capability to determine something that she couldn't ordinarily see (like a simple but unguessable message on a sign that is placed on the back of her chair).

She would be tested against a control group asked to perform the same task several different times. The researchers administering the test wouldn't know who was the test subject and who was in the control group. If she doesn't score better than the control group, it's bogus.

My suspicion is that she truly, honestly  believes she has this ability, but it's all in her head.

/That researchers are interested in scanning her brain is not validation of her ability; it's an attempt to understand how her brain behaves differently so they can attempt to understand which regions of the brain are impacted by the delusion. That's all. As usual, the Daily Fail gets the science almost entirely wrong.
 
2014-03-07 10:01:04 PM  
I know of a guy who has a million bucks for her if she can prove it.
 
2014-03-07 10:01:47 PM  

2wolves: Mr Rusty Shackleford: Interesting stuff IMO. There is more to life and consciousness than meets the eye.

And for the low, low, price of only four payments of $17.99 we'll send you the Meaning of Life.


Not a bad deal if you ask me!
 
2014-03-07 10:01:52 PM  
Sounds legit. It is from the SCIENCE section of the Daily Mail.

MrEricSir: I had nightmares sometimes as a kid, and one night something sort of "clicked" when I realized I didn't have to go along with the nightmare and could make my own choices. It was over a decade later that I learned this was a common phenomenon, thanks to the 1997 edition of the Internet Yellow Pages.


I am a lucid dreamer too. My realisation was kind of the opposite of yours, though. It was long before I knew that not everyone could do it.
 
2014-03-07 10:02:50 PM  
She ate the Wal Mart bottom round steak.
 
2014-03-07 10:02:58 PM  

Shostie: Define "researchers."


Frontiers in Neuroscience is a reputable journal (my lab has published there a few times as well). Seems like an out-of-body experience is just using your imagination really hard.

/same thing has happened to me on shrooms a few times.
//also after smoking too much weed
 
2014-03-07 10:04:08 PM  

Meisaims: Get back to me when you can paint things on her forehead, and have her describe them to you.


That's actually not such a bad idea. I'd be interested in reading up on the results.
 
2014-03-07 10:04:28 PM  
img1.etsystatic.com
 
2014-03-07 10:04:34 PM  
i1280.photobucket.com
 
2014-03-07 10:04:37 PM  

Mr Rusty Shackleford: Lucid dreams for me are often accompanied by sleep paralysis and varying levels of terror.  Not so great for me.

There is a reasonable body of evidence to suggest out of body experiences and near death experiences are related to natural DMT in the body, e.g. the work of Rick Strassman and others.

Also, I recall reading about hospitals who have begun to place novel objects and images above areas in which near death/out of body experiences might occur.  Typically hidden from ground-level view atop shelving or cabinetry in the hospital rooms.  The thinking is that the potential exists that someone could have one of these experiences, "levitate" or whatever... and be able to later articulate objects hidden above them they would not have seen or known existed unless there was merit to their experience.

Interesting stuff IMO.  There is more to life and consciousness than meets the eye.


Woowoo magic.
 
2014-03-07 10:06:39 PM  

secularsage: Easily tested. And easily debunked.

All you have to do is construct a double-blind test where she is required to "have an out of body experience" and use her capability to determine something that she couldn't ordinarily see (like a simple but unguessable message on a sign that is placed on the back of her chair).

She would be tested against a control group asked to perform the same task several different times. The researchers administering the test wouldn't know who was the test subject and who was in the control group. If she doesn't score better than the control group, it's bogus.

My suspicion is that she truly, honestly  believes she has this ability, but it's all in her head.

/That researchers are interested in scanning her brain is not validation of her ability; it's an attempt to understand how her brain behaves differently so they can attempt to understand which regions of the brain are impacted by the delusion. That's all. As usual, the Daily Fail gets the science almost entirely wrong.


The study doesn't aim to show that out of body experiences are actually that, but that the experience involves deactivation/inhibition of the visual cortex and lots of use of the temporal gyri, associated with kinesthetic perception (among other things). Which means she's able to control her brain in such a way that she perceives movement and leaving her body, not necessarily that she actually does. Don't assume a study does anything other than what it says it does.

/biggest problem with non-scientists attempting to read primary literature AND popular articles about science
 
2014-03-07 10:06:50 PM  

MrEricSir: SecretAgentWoman: I've had "lucid dreams" which I think is similar, if not the same damn thing.

I had nightmares sometimes as a kid, and one night something sort of "clicked" when I realized I didn't have to go along with the nightmare and could make my own choices. It was over a decade later that I learned this was a common phenomenon, thanks to the 1997 edition of the Internet Yellow Pages.
What this woman's describing definitely sounds like an advanced form of lucid dream induction.


Whenever I begin to become aware that I'm dreaming I always start looking for a cute chick to have sex with. Is that weird?
 
2014-03-07 10:08:14 PM  
 
2014-03-07 10:10:19 PM  

Mr Rusty Shackleford: Lucid dreams for me are often accompanied by sleep paralysis and varying levels of terror.  Not so great for me.

There is a reasonable body of evidence to suggest out of body experiences and near death experiences are related to natural DMT in the body, e.g. the work of Rick Strassman and others.

Also, I recall reading about hospitals who have begun to place novel objects and images above areas in which near death/out of body experiences might occur.  Typically hidden from ground-level view atop shelving or cabinetry in the hospital rooms.  The thinking is that the potential exists that someone could have one of these experiences, "levitate" or whatever... and be able to later articulate objects hidden above them they would not have seen or known existed unless there was merit to their experience.

Interesting stuff IMO.  There is more to life and consciousness than meets the eye.


Its called the AWARE project
 
2014-03-07 10:11:22 PM  
Can she do it while awake? Or does she have to be asleep? Why are out-of-body-experiences indistinguishable from dreams?

What does the body do when you're "away" from it? Are you conscious of it or anything happening to it? Can someone melt an ice cube on your neck or burn a cigarette butt on your forearm without you stirring? Let's try it and see.
 
2014-03-07 10:13:32 PM  

Mr Rusty Shackleford: Lucid dreams for me are often accompanied by sleep paralysis and varying levels of terror.  Not so great for me.

There is a reasonable body of evidence to suggest out of body experiences and near death experiences are related to natural DMT in the body, e.g. the work of Rick Strassman and others.

Also, I recall reading about hospitals who have begun to place novel objects and images above areas in which near death/out of body experiences might occur.  Typically hidden from ground-level view atop shelving or cabinetry in the hospital rooms.  The thinking is that the potential exists that someone could have one of these experiences, "levitate" or whatever... and be able to later articulate objects hidden above them they would not have seen or known existed unless there was merit to their experience.

Interesting stuff IMO.  There is more to life and consciousness than meets the eye.


Oh man those still freak me out. I've had them from time to time. I've also seen all sorts of crazy stuff during that state. Usually demons or aliens. When it is going on it all seems quite real. My mom has had a few of these as well. Can't remember how we got on the subject but she was quite relieved that she wasn't going crazy and that this kind of thing happened to me. Of course we really don't think aliens are trying to abduct us or demons trying to choke us. But man it is still some freaky stuff.
 
2014-03-07 10:14:06 PM  

Mantour: Mr Rusty Shackleford: Lucid dreams for me are often accompanied by sleep paralysis and varying levels of terror.  Not so great for me.

There is a reasonable body of evidence to suggest out of body experiences and near death experiences are related to natural DMT in the body, e.g. the work of Rick Strassman and others.

Also, I recall reading about hospitals who have begun to place novel objects and images above areas in which near death/out of body experiences might occur.  Typically hidden from ground-level view atop shelving or cabinetry in the hospital rooms.  The thinking is that the potential exists that someone could have one of these experiences, "levitate" or whatever... and be able to later articulate objects hidden above them they would not have seen or known existed unless there was merit to their experience.

Interesting stuff IMO.  There is more to life and consciousness than meets the eye.

Its called the AWARE project


Awesome, yes, thank you for the link!
 
2014-03-07 10:15:03 PM  
Step forward little Miss.

img.fark.net

He has a test for you and if you pass, you win a million bucks!
 
2014-03-07 10:16:42 PM  
Ohio? Yeah, they likely had his consent to both cuff and inject him. The pictures afterwards, probably not, but I can't really blame a bunch of people from Ohio for not realizing that their friend has kicked it.
 
2014-03-07 10:17:41 PM  
YouTube has DMT and astral projection binaural videos. They give a great body stone. If you are into that sort of thing it can be really cool.
 
2014-03-07 10:18:45 PM  

Tellingthem: Mr Rusty Shackleford: Lucid dreams for me are often accompanied by sleep paralysis and varying levels of terror.  Not so great for me.

There is a reasonable body of evidence to suggest out of body experiences and near death experiences are related to natural DMT in the body, e.g. the work of Rick Strassman and others.

Also, I recall reading about hospitals who have begun to place novel objects and images above areas in which near death/out of body experiences might occur.  Typically hidden from ground-level view atop shelving or cabinetry in the hospital rooms.  The thinking is that the potential exists that someone could have one of these experiences, "levitate" or whatever... and be able to later articulate objects hidden above them they would not have seen or known existed unless there was merit to their experience.

Interesting stuff IMO.  There is more to life and consciousness than meets the eye.

Oh man those still freak me out. I've had them from time to time. I've also seen all sorts of crazy stuff during that state. Usually demons or aliens. When it is going on it all seems quite real. My mom has had a few of these as well. Can't remember how we got on the subject but she was quite relieved that she wasn't going crazy and that this kind of thing happened to me. Of course we really don't think aliens are trying to abduct us or demons trying to choke us. But man it is still some freaky stuff.


Yeah that doesn't sound like fun at all.  The last one I recall having, I fell asleep on my couch watching TV, and in my dream the TV suddenly shut it self off, and I could no move to turn it back on.  I was still aurally aware, and then I proceeded to dream the sound of every one of my windows breaking one by one accompanied by children laughing manically.  I could not move to get up and investigate the noises and the laughter got louder and louder.  Good times!

/Drugs were not involved.
 
2014-03-07 10:19:38 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: Ohio? Yeah, they likely had his consent to both cuff and inject him. The pictures afterwards, probably not, but I can't really blame a bunch of people from Ohio for not realizing that their friend has kicked it.


D'oh, I followed a side link on TFA and got excited. My comment still stands...
 
2014-03-07 10:20:12 PM  
My favorite dreams are when I was dreaming of being at work right before I wake up to go to work...
 
2014-03-07 10:21:13 PM  
I've had some profound farking amazing moments on various things and stuff and times and never felt the need to write a paper or submit myself to study after it. But I was never a psychology student.
 
2014-03-07 10:26:22 PM  

secularsage: Easily tested. And easily debunked.

All you have to do is construct a double-blind test where she is required to "have an out of body experience" and use her capability to determine something that she couldn't ordinarily see (like a simple but unguessable message on a sign that is placed on the back of her chair).

She would be tested against a control group asked to perform the same task several different times. The researchers administering the test wouldn't know who was the test subject and who was in the control group. If she doesn't score better than the control group, it's bogus.

My suspicion is that she truly, honestly  believes she has this ability, but it's all in her head.

/That researchers are interested in scanning her brain is not validation of her ability; it's an attempt to understand how her brain behaves differently so they can attempt to understand which regions of the brain are impacted by the delusion. That's all. As usual, the Daily Fail gets the science almost entirely wrong.


Actually in the article the girl claims it's only the sensation of moving and she says she doesn't feel a separation between mind and body. So yeah, she basically says as much that it's all in her head.

I've had similar experiences while drifting asleep. There is merely a floating feeling and as she said a sensation of moving, but I'm also aware I'm not actually moving.
 
2014-03-07 10:32:08 PM  

2wolves: Mr Rusty Shackleford: Interesting stuff IMO. There is more to life and consciousness than meets the eye.

And for the low, low, price of only four payments of $17.99 we'll send you the Meaning of Life.


How much more do I have to chip in to get the VHS version of "The Miracle Of Life?"
 
2014-03-07 10:32:21 PM  

fusillade762: Whenever I begin to become aware that I'm dreaming I always start looking for a cute chick to have sex with. Is that weird?


I typically do two things:
1) Try to run/fly as fast as I can in a particular direction, to see what my brain generates in terms of scenery, and to see if I can outrun it and have it lose complexity.  It's pretty much like how it used to be (maybe still is?) with video games, when you can travel faster than the graphics card can render the surroundings.

2) I randomly assault people.  The people I assault usually take issue with this, to which I laughingly reply "it's a dream, there are no consequences!"

Based on that, if I ever lose touch with reality and think I'm dreaming when I'm not, I'm probably going to come out of it in a jail cell.
 
2014-03-07 10:33:09 PM  

aspAddict: 2wolves: Mr Rusty Shackleford: Interesting stuff IMO. There is more to life and consciousness than meets the eye.

And for the low, low, price of only four payments of $17.99 we'll send you the Meaning of Life.

How much more do I have to chip in to get the VHS version of "The Miracle Of Life?"


Sorry, only available in betamax.
 
2014-03-07 10:34:30 PM  
YUP!
 
2014-03-07 10:34:30 PM  
I had a couple of them as a kid...I think.

It was sort of confusing and I didn't realize it was happening either time until it was over.
 
2014-03-07 10:34:43 PM  

Mr Rusty Shackleford: Tellingthem: Mr Rusty Shackleford: Lucid dreams for me are often accompanied by sleep paralysis and varying levels of terror.  Not so great for me.

There is a reasonable body of evidence to suggest out of body experiences and near death experiences are related to natural DMT in the body, e.g. the work of Rick Strassman and others.

Also, I recall reading about hospitals who have begun to place novel objects and images above areas in which near death/out of body experiences might occur.  Typically hidden from ground-level view atop shelving or cabinetry in the hospital rooms.  The thinking is that the potential exists that someone could have one of these experiences, "levitate" or whatever... and be able to later articulate objects hidden above them they would not have seen or known existed unless there was merit to their experience.

Interesting stuff IMO.  There is more to life and consciousness than meets the eye.

Oh man those still freak me out. I've had them from time to time. I've also seen all sorts of crazy stuff during that state. Usually demons or aliens. When it is going on it all seems quite real. My mom has had a few of these as well. Can't remember how we got on the subject but she was quite relieved that she wasn't going crazy and that this kind of thing happened to me. Of course we really don't think aliens are trying to abduct us or demons trying to choke us. But man it is still some freaky stuff.

Yeah that doesn't sound like fun at all.  The last one I recall having, I fell asleep on my couch watching TV, and in my dream the TV suddenly shut it self off, and I could no move to turn it back on.  I was still aurally aware, and then I proceeded to dream the sound of every one of my windows breaking one by one accompanied by children laughing manically.  I could not move to get up and investigate the noises and the laughter got louder and louder.  Good times!

/Drugs were not involved.


Mine are always in bed. I wake not being able to move or speak. For the aliens one a light shines in the window and grabs me. It then picks me up a few feet above my bed. I never really see them but i can hear them. The demon one is a little 2ft high burnt looking thing with dark hairs covering its body and it always standing next to my bed holding my hand or arm, trying to take me down to hell. Each time I fight as hard as I can to move and am usually cursing it out in my mind. And then it ends as soon as I can manage to close my eyes. When I open them again I can move just fine and everything is as it was. Always takes me a second to calm back down and remember it's just a dream type thing. Amazing what the brain can conjure up when it short circuits or whatever causes this.
 
2014-03-07 10:35:02 PM  

Dragonflew: Sounds legit. It is from the SCIENCE section of the Daily Mail.

MrEricSir: I had nightmares sometimes as a kid, and one night something sort of "clicked" when I realized I didn't have to go along with the nightmare and could make my own choices. It was over a decade later that I learned this was a common phenomenon, thanks to the 1997 edition of the Internet Yellow Pages.

I am a lucid dreamer too. My realisation was kind of the opposite of yours, though. It was long before I knew that not everyone could do it.


I was actually reading about it last night (yay insomnia!) and just found out that one of the ways they tested to see if the people were actually conscious or just dreaming they were conscious was to have them do certain signals with their eyes, since that's one thing that you can still somewhat control while you're dreaming. Which is interesting because my most vivid lucid dream, I shut my eyes as hard and tight as I could to try and wake myself up, and it seemed to work.
 
2014-03-07 10:38:45 PM  

Smackledorfer: SecretAgentWoman: I've had "lucid dreams" which I think is similar, if not the same damn thing.

Lucid dreams are awesome. I always feel so alive afterward, even the odd nightmarish one I fail to mentally overcome.


Do you dream in color?
 
2014-03-07 10:39:15 PM  
Codeine cough syrup gives me lucid dreams.   And sometimes when I try to nap.
 
2014-03-07 10:39:35 PM  

Aquapope: I know of a guy who has a million bucks for her if she can prove it.


If she truly HAD this ability, a million would be chump change. The ability to spy on anyone without detection? Go into business selling corporate secrets, she'd make a mint.
 
2014-03-07 10:43:19 PM  
Sips more beer.
Had lucid dreams since childhood.
#BonerJamCity

Astral projected after several attempts at 16.
Got BOOTED out upon seeing what seemed to be the golden ratio.

Have had occasional out of body experiences.

Seemingly random dreams that later catch up to my present moment.
Months or years until they sync.
 
2014-03-07 10:49:12 PM  
We'd already have astral soldiers in Afghanistan if this had any merit to it.
I can empathize with the desire for magic to exist in this short life of ours (or that there's a next life) but it should not come at the cost of legitimate science and medicine.
 
2014-03-07 10:49:35 PM  
One time, I was having an incredibly stupid dream.  I mean it was just dumb.  I decided I was going to wake up and, if the sun was up, I'd had enough sleep because I had better things to do with my time than put up with that stupid dream.  And I did.  I woke up.  The sun was up so I got up, took a shower, and found something to do.

Not sure where that fits in the astral projection/lucid dreaming scale.
 
2014-03-07 10:51:12 PM  
doloresonthedottedline:  Which is interesting because my most vivid lucid dream, I shut my eyes as hard and tight as I could to try and wake myself up, and it seemed to work.

Weird, that's exactly what I do in the few times I can remember my dreams and it happens to be a bad one and I come to the realization of that fact. I'd say it's happened a total of about 40 times over my 29 year life, although I remember my drams maybe 5% of the time.
 
2014-03-07 10:53:03 PM  
If this is obscure to you, you are 20 years behind the times.

Link
 
2014-03-07 10:53:23 PM  
I had a girlfriend that could do this every time we had sex.  It was was weird... she would get totally vacant absent stare and be totally unresponsive to anything I did.  I'm not sure if she was abused as a child, or she was entering some meditative state, or it was all the rohypnol I gave her, but it was a damn good skill.  I never did get to ask her about that, with the restraining order and all.
 
2014-03-07 10:54:42 PM  

BluVeinThrobber: Smackledorfer: SecretAgentWoman: I've had "lucid dreams" which I think is similar, if not the same damn thing.

Lucid dreams are awesome. I always feel so alive afterward, even the odd nightmarish one I fail to mentally overcome.

Do you dream in color?


I think so, but since it is all just the brain taking itself for a walk it could just be rememberence of color.
 
2014-03-07 10:59:13 PM  

MrEricSir: SecretAgentWoman: I've had "lucid dreams" which I think is similar, if not the same damn thing.

I had nightmares sometimes as a kid, and one night something sort of "clicked" when I realized I didn't have to go along with the nightmare and could make my own choices. It was over a decade later that I learned this was a common phenomenon, thanks to the 1997 edition of the Internet Yellow Pages.
What this woman's describing definitely sounds like an advanced form of lucid dream induction.


I had nightmares too while a kid, usually involving monsters or ghosts or disembodied limbs. After a while, my nightmares began to include trucks appearing from nowhere to chase and occasionally kill the monsters. Those types of nightmares almost completely disappeared (except for one a year ago about dead mutilated hookers), and now my nightmares involve psychologically-traumatic events like being fired or family members dying. Those have not yet had happy endings. This is unrelated to lucid dreaming, but I wanted to share.
 
2014-03-07 11:01:45 PM  
All the debunkers denying a spiritual universe and double blind studies are as trapped in a mere three dimensions as the flat-earthers and geocentric universe were in Columbus' and Galileo's day were trapped in two dimensions. Remember: nothing is true until we scientifically can prove it in a replicable experiment.
 
2014-03-07 11:03:10 PM  

Kevin72: All the debunkers denying a spiritual universe and double blind studies are as trapped in a mere three dimensions as the flat-earthers and geocentric universe were in Columbus' and Galileo's day were trapped in two dimensions. Remember: nothing is true until we scientifically can prove it in a replicable experiment.


The burden of proof isn't on our end
 
2014-03-07 11:04:41 PM  
If OBEs or NDEs are real it would be difficult to prove as much no matter what the case.

Hypothetically, let's say there is a duality between the brain and consciousness, if consciousness leaves the body it would need some mechanization for remembering and bringing those experiences back to the brain for it to activate the hippocampus and record those into memory.

Basically your consciousness outside of the body would work differently than your brain does, and your brain would have limitations that an independent consciousness would not. So it would be difficult or impossible to accurately recount memory outside your body once a hypothetical consciousness is back in the body.
 
2014-03-07 11:05:12 PM  

Mr Rusty Shackleford: Lucid dreams for me are often accompanied by sleep paralysis and varying levels of terror.  Not so great for me.

There is a reasonable body of evidence to suggest out of body experiences and near death experiences are related to natural DMT in the body, e.g. the work of Rick Strassman and others.

Also, I recall reading about hospitals who have begun to place novel objects and images above areas in which near death/out of body experiences might occur.  Typically hidden from ground-level view atop shelving or cabinetry in the hospital rooms.  The thinking is that the potential exists that someone could have one of these experiences, "levitate" or whatever... and be able to later articulate objects hidden above them they would not have seen or known existed unless there was merit to their experience.

Interesting stuff IMO.  There is more to life and consciousness than meets the eye.


By definition lucid dreams should not have terror. We call those nightmares.

I had chronic nightmares since I was a teenager. When I finally learned how to identify that I was dreaming and "go lucid" the nightmares weren't so scary anymore.
 
2014-03-07 11:05:55 PM  

Smackledorfer: BluVeinThrobber: Smackledorfer: SecretAgentWoman: I've had "lucid dreams" which I think is similar, if not the same damn thing.

Lucid dreams are awesome. I always feel so alive afterward, even the odd nightmarish one I fail to mentally overcome.

Do you dream in color?

I think so, but since it is all just the brain taking itself for a walk it could just be rememberence of color.


Isn't dreaming in color a sign of psycosis
 
2014-03-07 11:12:38 PM  

BluVeinThrobber: Smackledorfer: BluVeinThrobber: Smackledorfer: SecretAgentWoman: I've had "lucid dreams" which I think is similar, if not the same damn thing.

Lucid dreams are awesome. I always feel so alive afterward, even the odd nightmarish one I fail to mentally overcome.

Do you dream in color?

I think so, but since it is all just the brain taking itself for a walk it could just be rememberence of color.

Isn't dreaming in color a sign of psycosis


Doubtful.
 
2014-03-07 11:18:04 PM  

sethen320: By definition lucid dreams should not have terror. We call those nightmares.

I had chronic nightmares since I was a teenager. When I finally learned how to identify that I was dreaming and "go lucid" the nightmares weren't so scary anymore.


I am not sure I agree with this at all.  In my case, I am always aware that I am dreaming.  But for some reason the terror factor is not offset.  Perhaps irrational, but that is how it goes down for me.
 
2014-03-07 11:18:24 PM  

Kevin72: All the debunkers denying a spiritual universe and double blind studies are as trapped in a mere three dimensions as the flat-earthers and geocentric universe were in Columbus' and Galileo's day were trapped in two dimensions.

/sarcasm alert on
Remember: nothing is true until we scientifically can prove it in a replicable experiment.

/sarcasm alert off

I'll try that again so I don't contradict my point.
/not drunk. doing fark when im supposed to be watching girls basketball high school championship. 42-37 still close
 
2014-03-07 11:20:13 PM  

Kevin72: All the debunkers denying a spiritual universe and double blind studies are as trapped in a mere three dimensions as the flat-earthers and geocentric universe were in Columbus' and Galileo's day were trapped in two dimensions. Remember: nothing is true until we scientifically can prove it in a replicable experiment.


I will say this, Rupert Sheldrake has some compelling data. From his google tech talk I thought he was a kook at first until he starts disclosing his methods and data, which on the outset appear to be sound.

He openly discusses his data and doesn't shy away from challenges to it, and he appears to be operating in the bounds of scientific rigor even though he his discounted seemingly from bias.
 
2014-03-07 11:24:41 PM  

Smackledorfer: BluVeinThrobber: Smackledorfer: BluVeinThrobber: Smackledorfer: SecretAgentWoman: I've had "lucid dreams" which I think is similar, if not the same damn thing.

Lucid dreams are awesome. I always feel so alive afterward, even the odd nightmarish one I fail to mentally overcome.

Do you dream in color?

I think so, but since it is all just the brain taking itself for a walk it could just be rememberence of color.

Isn't dreaming in color a sign of psycosis

Doubtful.


Dont know thought I remembered reading that somewhwere
 
2014-03-07 11:39:45 PM  

Mr Rusty Shackleford: Lucid dreams for me are often accompanied by sleep paralysis and varying levels of terror.  Not so great for me.

There is a reasonable body of evidence to suggest out of body experiences and near death experiences are related to natural DMT in the body, e.g. the work of Rick Strassman and others.

Also, I recall reading about hospitals who have begun to place novel objects and images above areas in which near death/out of body experiences might occur.  Typically hidden from ground-level view atop shelving or cabinetry in the hospital rooms.  The thinking is that the potential exists that someone could have one of these experiences, "levitate" or whatever... and be able to later articulate objects hidden above them they would not have seen or known existed unless there was merit to their experience.

Interesting stuff IMO.  There is more to life and consciousness than meets the eye.


I have episodes of sleep paralysis, and I absolutely can't stand them.  The freak me the fark out and I feel absolutely messed up the rest of the day.  I've found that, for me, avoiding naps helps a lot.
 
2014-03-07 11:44:35 PM  

fusillade762: MrEricSir: SecretAgentWoman: I've had "lucid dreams" which I think is similar, if not the same damn thing.

I had nightmares sometimes as a kid, and one night something sort of "clicked" when I realized I didn't have to go along with the nightmare and could make my own choices. It was over a decade later that I learned this was a common phenomenon, thanks to the 1997 edition of the Internet Yellow Pages.
What this woman's describing definitely sounds like an advanced form of lucid dream induction.

Whenever I begin to become aware that I'm dreaming I always start looking for a cute chick to have sex with. Is that weird?


The problem with fantasy dreams is that you eventually wake up and you're not dating a supermodel while you travel through time and win millions of dollars on game shows. Makes real life seem pretty dull.
 
2014-03-07 11:52:19 PM  
And she comes back? On PURPOSE? That's the part I'm having a tough time believing.
 
2014-03-07 11:55:23 PM  

SecretAgentWoman: I've had "lucid dreams" which I think is similar, if not the same damn thing.



but
have you awoken from them to find you've levitated above the bed?

then fallen?

like wiley coyote??

*crash*
 
2014-03-08 12:03:14 AM  

God-is-a-Taco: We'd already have astral soldiers in Afghanistan if this had any merit to it.
I can empathize with the desire for magic to exist in this short life of ours (or that there's a next life) but it should not come at the cost of legitimate science and medicine.


This is legitimate science.

Nobody - from the woman involved to the researchers - is suggesting that she actually leaves her body.  They are studying the perception of having left the body.  The woman is well aware that this is a mental state she is consciously bringing on.  The researchers are gathering neurological data on the biology behind this altered state of perception.
 
2014-03-08 12:05:07 AM  
I tend to astral project during long, boring meetings at work.  Does that count?
 
2014-03-08 12:11:42 AM  

Sum Dum Gai: God-is-a-Taco: We'd already have astral soldiers in Afghanistan if this had any merit to it.
I can empathize with the desire for magic to exist in this short life of ours (or that there's a next life) but it should not come at the cost of legitimate science and medicine.

This is legitimate science.

Nobody - from the woman involved to the researchers - is suggesting that she actually leaves her body.  They are studying the perception of having left the body.  The woman is well aware that this is a mental state she is consciously bringing on.  The researchers are gathering neurological data on the biology behind this altered state of perception.


Yeah, no one read the article. Somewhat understandable considering the source, but still.
 
2014-03-08 12:16:00 AM  

doloresonthedottedline: I was actually reading about it last night (yay insomnia!) and just found out that one of the ways they tested to see if the people were actually conscious or just dreaming they were conscious was to have them do certain signals with their eyes, since that's one thing that you can still somewhat control while you're dreaming. Which is interesting because my most vivid lucid dream, I shut my eyes as hard and tight as I could to try and wake myself up, and it seemed to work.


Stephen LaBerge did some of the better studies on this in the 80's and 90's. He used an EEG to record eye signals during lucid dreams in order to show that perceived time is the same in dreams as while awake. Other researchers have done similar experiments in recent years.

There's not yet much you can do without expensive equipment but the idea of communicating with the outside world from a dream has always interested me. Though our bodies are partially blind and paralyzed while asleep, blind people can read braille and people like Stephen Hawking are partially paralyzed. Perhaps one day people will post on Fark in their dreams.
 
2014-03-08 12:20:09 AM  
I fell into the habit of sleeping with a pillow pretty much over my face and had a series of out of body experiences during that time, obviously from lack of oxygen...and also when I slept with too many blankets or with a fever.  The experiences were fascinating, controllable and only sometimes frightening, and they stopped when I wised up about the pillow..."fever dreams" continue, however.  I think there is a physiological explanation for these phenomena.
 
2014-03-08 12:27:28 AM  
Ehh, I do more the out of mind experiences. Wake up the next day, wonder what the hell happened last night, see the empty bottle, the broken table, etc.
 
2014-03-08 12:47:28 AM  

SecretAgentWoman: I've had "lucid dreams" which I think is similar, if not the same damn thing.


Endogenous release of DMT from the pineal gland. Similar but not the same.
 
2014-03-08 01:03:08 AM  

zepillin: Endogenous release of DMT from the pineal gland


bl bla bla

I SEE DEAD PEOPLE

 
2014-03-08 01:05:11 AM  
Mustn't sleep.
Clowns.

'n' shiat.

Can't sleep.

I'll be here all night.

Don't forget to tip the demons.
under your bed
in your head
 
2014-03-08 01:05:39 AM  
No Wesley Crusher pic's?, fark I am disappointed
 
2014-03-08 01:56:16 AM  

zepillin: SecretAgentWoman: I've had "lucid dreams" which I think is similar, if not the same damn thing.

Endogenous release of DMT from the pineal gland. Similar but not the same.


That nonsense was debunked ages ago.
 
2014-03-08 02:29:57 AM  
Our brains are squishy holodecks. It's both cool and tragic. I would bet a trillion bucks that a lot of the worst of human history has been influenced by kooks who swore what they felt, saw, and heard was real when in reality it was nothing more than an isolated construct generated in their own heads. It felt real of course. But why wouldn't it? It's all coming from the very tub of goo that generates and processes all your sensations and emotions. And where else is god going to tell you that you're awesome, people should listen to you, and if they don't, they deserve to burn?

Get back to me when there's unequivocal proof that Professor Moriarty is using the Arch to cause trouble  outsideof the holodeck.
 
2014-03-08 02:49:05 AM  

180IQ: zepillin: SecretAgentWoman: I've had "lucid dreams" which I think is similar, if not the same damn thing.

Endogenous release of DMT from the pineal gland. Similar but not the same.

That nonsense was debunked ages ago.


Are you referring to lucid dreams or DMT from the pineal gland as nonsense?
 
2014-03-08 03:20:23 AM  
Far journeys by Robert Monroe is a good read where he documents his initial obe experiences.

/Every night I relax in readiness for an obe. //Hangovers seem to block memories.
 
2014-03-08 03:56:54 AM  
Fringe is not coming back. Stop trying to force it.
 
2014-03-08 04:54:31 AM  

MayoSlather: 180IQ: zepillin: SecretAgentWoman: I've had "lucid dreams" which I think is similar, if not the same damn thing.

Endogenous release of DMT from the pineal gland. Similar but not the same.

That nonsense was debunked ages ago.

Are you referring to lucid dreams or DMT from the pineal gland as nonsense?


DMT
 
2014-03-08 06:22:44 AM  
I've had tons of out-of-body experiences. The best ones have been on LSD. I remember returning to my body as it was sitting on the floor, next to a friend, looking at myself from the outside before returning to normal consciousness. I also felt like I was able to see the journey taken from the moonlight reflecting off new-falling snow all the way back through the time and space it took for it to reach my eye.

I also used to have strangely clear dreams of looking at myself sleeping sometimes.
 
2014-03-08 06:36:53 AM  
Dreams, aren't really. They are a different type of computation, for good reason.

When very young, someone told me about angels and devils. then i had a vivid dream that i had caught one, in an electromagnet, it looked like a red glow, it couldn't escape...i couldn't remember much about my magnet, but it was something i was using. the end.

A few yrs later i decided if i ever met an alien i would take over its mind and get all that it owned under my power. I looked for them with my mind but they were no where to be found.
All my experiences with Carlos Casteneda experiments failed to show me any monsters or dwarfes, etc.

A few yrs later i dreamed, with sweat, that me & my friends & GF were in my van when i was passing a semi in the pouring rain on a 2 lane hi way, and, when i was halfway thru the pass, another semi opposite in the direction loomed right in the way.
I remember all of us, esp me, aware of certain death, no escape, split second.... i decided to keep my eyes wide open... i went between the trucks somehow.... i pulled over to the side of the road, everyone in the van was crying hard... very freaked out, but i felt nothing special, just glad i kept my eyes open. then woke up sweaty & full of adrenaline. Many other sweaty dreams where i took control & wake up suddenly.
Even later i discovered how to combat drowsy driving... and also how to get lucid dreaming going quickly. In drowsy driving my soul seems to vacate my body momentarily, and i am totally unaware of surroundings.. that feaked me out, must solve.. NOW! Its random thinking... thats the key.

There is a random thinking mode that once started, unleashes the power of dreams, causing hypnosis and triggering REM sleep almost instantly; tapping the subconscious, and liberating the 'mistral wind'
Needless to say, drugs are long since unnecessary and clumsy, a hindrance, compared to what the mind can do when the body is pure...
 
2014-03-08 07:55:53 AM  
Heavily tangential thread aside...

This is very common, though not the ability to disconnect at will.

That is what brains do when they prepare for sleep.  They disconnect or shut down, more or less.  Gliding or falling or flying sensations are very common(as a vast amount of people do this in their dreams as well), and the parts of the brain that don't manage to shut down struggling to make sense of inaccurate information.

For some to go to sleep, it's very gradual.  For others, even without exhaustion it can be very rapid.  Or mis-timed so that there's overlap of wakefullness and being asleep.

This is a function that runs parallell to lucid dreaming but is not the same phenomena. Call "lucid dreaming", instead, "Driving to work", and what the article talks about more like "driving to the store and taking the scenic route".

For many, when they prepare for sleep, they continue thinking about things that are relevant to reality, bills, work, the movie you just watched, etc etc, and drift off, slowly letting go, almost involuntarily.

To do as in the article, you more or less have to be able to clear your mind, disconnect from all of those things, push them from the conscious mind, faster than your brain and body go into full sleep mode.

No guarantee you'll see the same things, same as if we both witness a crime and describe varying things even different events.

The study itself is interesting, seeing what the brain does when we experience these false sensations.

Really, the ability ties back to darwin, as does most everything.  Those that survived the night were the one's that slept lightly, who retained some ability of alertness or some information.  There are different mechanics to this, of course.  Some are sensitive to sounds, some to temperatures, some air pressure, or varying degrees and combinations thereof, and hence wake easily.  Some awake at mere sensations of movement(there's a popular theory that's tied to when we slept in trees, that falling sensation), because it would pay well to be able to raise alarm if someone's carrying you off in your sleep.

This particular case, the ability to shut down the brain rapidly, is a lot like being a soldier that doesn't get enough sleep, so they drop off every chance they get even if just for minutes at a time.  End up more refreshed and alert than those who go full 16+ hours straight awake and have better endurance towards the later ends of the day.

*shrugs*
Just woke up and I get on fark to process information and wake my brain up, so pardon the rambly nature of the post.
 
2014-03-08 07:57:05 AM  
We tried a lot of Stuff back in the 70's when the "Good" drugs were still around. There were some really strange times but nothing that I could call an "Out of Body" experience. I've been knocked out for a few Operations since then, you go to sleep then you wake up not remembering a damn thing but never anything "Out of Body". I found out that old "Count backwards from 100" thing is Crap! They hit you with it and Bang, you're out. The times I've been put under, I don't even recall dreaming at all. Nothing! I've gone through a whole day afterwards not remembering anything I did depending on what and how much they hit you with, it varies, I just don't believe in that stuff. I think some people have over-active imaginations. Maybe they Wish they were out of their bodies looking around.
 
2014-03-08 08:12:41 AM  
I've had an out-of-pants experience, does that count?
 
2014-03-08 08:49:47 AM  
Fark the out of body experience, if she's hawt, can I has an "in body" experience?
 
2014-03-08 10:27:25 AM  
I have dreams that I can fly and the weirdest thing is avoiding all the damn telephone/power lines.
 
2014-03-08 11:06:14 AM  

Deep Contact: I have dreams that I can fly and the weirdest thing is avoiding all the damn telephone/power lines.


Wierdest or hardest?

I have dreams like that.  Floating, flying, even flying fast is easy.  Turning and stopping at speed, not so much.  I always panic myself awake before I hit powerlines or trees, suddenly incapable of any sort of control.

Mine, I think goes pretty much back to a bad CSB.  At a water park when little I was too scared for the twisty turny water slides.  I saw one that was straight and figured,"Hey, that's easy, I can do that one, like a playground slide." That's what it looked like from a distance, built into the side of a hill. My little mind didn't realize the scale of the thing. Pretty sure I was going about 60mph down that farking thing.  Was in shock the rest of the day, don't remember much after that.

Along with pain, fear imprints pretty strongly on the mind.
 
2014-03-08 11:25:06 AM  
Every time I have an out of body experience, I see this red bastard
www.trespassmag.com
and he starts playing this really annoying Tiny Tim music.

Also there is this old biatch who keeps getting closer and closer to me. Keeps talking about how she wants my body. I think she wants to fark me or something.
 
2014-03-08 11:57:56 AM  
www.american-buddha.com
www.american-buddha.com
www.american-buddha.com
www.american-buddha.com
 
2014-03-08 12:19:52 PM  

omeganuepsilon: Deep Contact: I have dreams that I can fly and the weirdest thing is avoiding all the damn telephone/power lines.

Wierdest or hardest?

I have dreams like that.  Floating, flying, even flying fast is easy.  Turning and stopping at speed, not so much.  I always panic myself awake before I hit powerlines or trees, suddenly incapable of any sort of control.

Mine, I think goes pretty much back to a bad CSB.  At a water park when little I was too scared for the twisty turny water slides.  I saw one that was straight and figured,"Hey, that's easy, I can do that one, like a playground slide." That's what it looked like from a distance, built into the side of a hill. My little mind didn't realize the scale of the thing. Pretty sure I was going about 60mph down that farking thing.  Was in shock the rest of the day, don't remember much after that.

Along with pain, fear imprints pretty strongly on the mind.


I'm amazed at how real some of those flying dreams feel. I can feel the wind, and if I'm flying and think to myself "I can't fly" I begin to plummet. Then I think, well I was flying so let's try again, and I'll jump a few times with varying degrees of success getting off the ground until I adequately believe I can fly.

Then I wake up and curse evolution for not giving us the ability to fly.
 
2014-03-08 12:43:47 PM  

gaspode: No she can not.


Disbelief is no more evidence than belief.
 
2014-03-08 12:51:11 PM  
I prefer the "in body" experience.


i.imgur.com
 
2014-03-08 12:53:01 PM  

Smackledorfer: I think so, but since it is all just the brain taking itself for a walk it could just be rememberence of color.


Wut?  Wha...what else would it be?

/remembrance
 
2014-03-08 01:02:10 PM  

MayoSlather: Then I wake up and curse evolution for not giving us the ability to fly.


lol

s2s2s2: gaspode: No she can not.

Disbelief is no more evidence than belief.


Not so.  Or rather, generally speaking, misleading nonesense attempting to fabricate parity and equality of the two concepts.  Neither is, in and of itself, evidence.  But what causes each of the states?

Disbelief is common due to ordinary incredulity based on actual experienced evidence(or collected data thereof) combined with functional knowledge of similar things.

Belief is common due to wishful thinking devoid of, and often in spite of, evidence.
 
2014-03-08 01:39:11 PM  

omeganuepsilon: Deep Contact: I have dreams that I can fly and the weirdest thing is avoiding all the damn telephone/power lines.

Wierdest or hardest?

I have dreams like that.  Floating, flying, even flying fast is easy.  Turning and stopping at speed, not so much.  I always panic myself awake before I hit powerlines or trees, suddenly incapable of any sort of control.

Mine, I think goes pretty much back to a bad CSB.  At a water park when little I was too scared for the twisty turny water slides.  I saw one that was straight and figured,"Hey, that's easy, I can do that one, like a playground slide." That's what it looked like from a distance, built into the side of a hill. My little mind didn't realize the scale of the thing. Pretty sure I was going about 60mph down that farking thing.  Was in shock the rest of the day, don't remember much after that.

Along with pain, fear imprints pretty strongly on the mind.


Weird that I would even think of phone/power lines in my flight path. Must be from playing football in the street as a kid and the ball would sometimes hit a line throwing a pass.
 
2014-03-08 01:45:28 PM  

Ishkur: Can she do it while awake? Or does she have to be asleep? Why are out-of-body-experiences indistinguishable from dreams?

What does the body do when you're "away" from it? Are you conscious of it or anything happening to it? Can someone melt an ice cube on your neck or burn a cigarette butt on your forearm without you stirring? Let's try it and see.


I've had out-of-body experiences while awake (uncontrolled and I was never interested in repeating it), so yes, it can happen while awake. I don't know if she personally can do it, but ofb experiences aren't dreams and don't use the same neural pathways. The body pretty much just goes along with life. I've done it while dancing and I saw myself still moving, and no one noticed anything different, so the fact that she does it before sleeping might just be due to her personal preference.

And  seriously? No, you may  not burn people or melt ice cubes on them out of curiosity.
 
2014-03-08 01:59:44 PM  

trappedspirit: Smackledorfer: I think so, but since it is all just the brain taking itself for a walk it could just be rememberence of color.

Wut?  Wha...what else would it be?

/remembrance


I'm saying you aren't seeing anything, so there can be no color, as such. It isn't about light reflected.

Which is also why any debate over B&W vs. color is pointless: it is all based on self-reporting.

Say you dreamed about eating a ripe banana. Then you wake up and remember the dream. Was the banana yellow during the dream, or is it now yellow after the dream as you try to recall it?

Ignoring color for the moment, think of all the other details in dreams that simply aren't there.  If you walk into a room during the day and walk out, you can picture closets, what was sitting on various desks, what kind of lamps were in there, etc. When you remember a room you were in during a dream, you might not remember an actual room at all, but rather just that you had encounter X with whatever other salient portions of the dream, and hey it was probably in a room.  Other dreams, where parts of the room do play a role (say you were having a nightmare about shiat coming out from under the bed) then you definitely have those furniture items and details present.

Things in real life cannot be visible without some reflected light.  Conceptualized things in a dream don't follow that rule, obviously.

In the majority of my dreams, color is not an important aspect of the dream, and I don't remember the objects I interact with as being any particular shade. In a few, there has been color, afaict. I cannot remember a single one in which anything was memorable as black and white.
 
2014-03-08 03:34:39 PM  

s2s2s2: gaspode: No she can not.

Disbelief is no more evidence than belief.


My opinion is the result of evidence. not evidence itself. If you think additional evidence is still required to debunk this nonsense then you are very stupid.
 
2014-03-08 03:57:05 PM  

180IQ: MayoSlather: 180IQ: zepillin: SecretAgentWoman: I've had "lucid dreams" which I think is similar, if not the same damn thing.

Endogenous release of DMT from the pineal gland. Similar but not the same.

That nonsense was debunked ages ago.

Are you referring to lucid dreams or DMT from the pineal gland as nonsense?

DMT


http://www.cottonwoodresearch.org/dmt-pineal-2013/

Whoops,  looks like you're wrong.
 
2014-03-08 03:59:42 PM  
And to be quite frank, if you have never freebased 50mg of DMT and successfully broken through, you really have no business whatsoever chiming in on the matter.
 
2014-03-08 08:31:40 PM  

BluVeinThrobber: Do you dream in color?


*synthesizer riff* boop boop BEEP!
 
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