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(BBC-US)   Some totally-not-Russian gunmen have taken over a Ukrainian military base in Crimea   (bbc.com) divider line 103
    More: Scary, Crimean, Russians, Ukrainian, Europe, Ukraine, Black Sea Fleet, Sevastopol, military base  
•       •       •

4946 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Mar 2014 at 5:34 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-07 05:35:46 PM  
crimea river?
 
2014-03-07 05:36:56 PM  

CRIMEA RIVER!!!

 
2014-03-07 05:36:56 PM  
Its OK. Weird Al gave Russia permission before he died.
 
2014-03-07 05:37:12 PM  
If the uniforms have no insignia, they are categorized as spies.
 
2014-03-07 05:37:53 PM  
p.vitalmx.com
 
2014-03-07 05:39:15 PM  
Yep, he's dead
 
2014-03-07 05:39:31 PM  

mcreadyblue: If the uniforms have no insignia, they are categorized as spies.


Spies that beat reporters and threw stun grenades at soldiers. Yet we're still holding on to the "no shots fired" canard because no one can actually verify the death of a Ukrainian soldier at the hands of a Russian soldier.
 
2014-03-07 05:40:34 PM  
Except, they left so...?

This is like some school kids playing army.

"HAHA! We totally took your base!"

"No way, we were eating snack when you did and that's cheating!"

"Nyah-nyah! ...Well, this is boring, let's go have a snack."
 
2014-03-07 05:41:55 PM  

mcreadyblue: If the uniforms have no insignia, they are categorized as spies.



By not wearing a uniform with visible insignia the person doesn't enjoy the "combatant's privilege" of committing violence and mayhem without being subject to criminal sanction (conversely, the individual can't be killed on sight at any time either).
 
2014-03-07 05:42:04 PM  
So, I guess the plan was to have the Ukrainians start shooting. Cunning plan there.
 
2014-03-07 05:42:09 PM  
Some military installations and other buildings in the peninsula have been taken over, but both sides have so far held their fire.

I don't understand this.  If I'm military and hanging out at my military installation and I see people coming towards me with machine guns and are definitely not my military, why wouldn't I open fire?

And if they point those guns at me and say, "Get out", I would think it unlikely I'd hear them over the sound of my own machine gun.

Can anyone shed some light on this?
 
2014-03-07 05:42:43 PM  

orezona: Except, they left so...?

This is like some school kids playing army.

"HAHA! We totally took your base!"

"No way, we were eating snack when you did and that's cheating!"

"Nyah-nyah! ...Well, this is boring, let's go have a snack."


All your base are belong to us?
 
2014-03-07 05:42:55 PM  
www.bluemilkspecial.com
 
2014-03-07 05:43:43 PM  
Are you Russian?
Nyet!
 
2014-03-07 05:45:20 PM  
Has anyone mentioned "crimea river" yet?
 
2014-03-07 05:47:36 PM  

palelizard: Some military installations and other buildings in the peninsula have been taken over, but both sides have so far held their fire.

I don't understand this.  If I'm military and hanging out at my military installation and I see people coming towards me with machine guns and are definitely not my military, why wouldn't I open fire?

And if they point those guns at me and say, "Get out", I would think it unlikely I'd hear them over the sound of my own machine gun.

Can anyone shed some light on this?


They don't care enough about keeping Crimea to die for it?
 
2014-03-07 05:48:13 PM  
 
2014-03-07 05:48:13 PM  
Why do we care about this and not the other conflicts that been going on for the past 30 years?
 
2014-03-07 05:48:23 PM  

empres77: Has anyone mentioned "crimea river" yet?


Da!
 
2014-03-07 05:49:28 PM  
we fight people in uniform without insignia all the time. I thought we call them enemy combatants now. And can detain them in gitmo for years on end with no trial.
 
2014-03-07 05:50:03 PM  

palelizard: I don't understand this.  If I'm military and hanging out at my military installation and I see people coming towards me with machine guns and are definitely not my military, why wouldn't I open fire?

And if they point those guns at me and say, "Get out", I would think it unlikely I'd hear them over the sound of my own machine gun.

Can anyone shed some light on this?



It's similar to the Marco Polo Bridge incident.  The Russian military is attempting to provoke a violent response from the Ukrainians by acting in a way that would lead the Ukrainian troops to believe that they are being threatened.  By using personnel without visible insignia (despite the fact that everyone else recognizes Russia's new military kit) who the Russian's like to refer to as local "militia" the Russians are hoping that the Ukrainian troops will open fire.  This gives Russia official pretext to widely deploy it's armed forces in Ukraine in order to "protect" the "local" militia from the depredations of the "violent" Ukrainian military.
 
2014-03-07 05:51:54 PM  

Sin_City_Superhero: orezona: Except, they left so...?

This is like some school kids playing army.

"HAHA! We totally took your base!"

"No way, we were eating snack when you did and that's cheating!"

"Nyah-nyah! ...Well, this is boring, let's go have a snack."

All your base are belong to us?


Take off every MiG for great justice.
 
2014-03-07 05:51:59 PM  
reported to have stormed a Ukrainian military base outside the Crimean city of Sevastopol, before withdrawing soon afterwards.

So they ran on the base, yelled "Psyche!", the turned and ran away?
 
2014-03-07 05:52:54 PM  
How can Ukrainians fight so hard against their own government and then turn into such complete pussies when Russia starts pushing them around?
 
2014-03-07 05:53:14 PM  

JK47: mcreadyblue: If the uniforms have no insignia, they are categorized as spies.


By not wearing a uniform with visible insignia the person doesn't enjoy the "combatant's privilege" of committing violence and mayhem without being subject to criminal sanction (conversely, the individual can't be killed on sight at any time either).


According to us, nope.  All they need is an ID card in their pocket, just like our allies the Northern Alliance used when we into Afghanistan back in 2001.

/the difference between unlawful combatant Taliban and Northern Alliance lawful combatant dress: an ID card
 
2014-03-07 05:53:45 PM  

JK47: palelizard: I don't understand this.  If I'm military and hanging out at my military installation and I see people coming towards me with machine guns and are definitely not my military, why wouldn't I open fire?

And if they point those guns at me and say, "Get out", I would think it unlikely I'd hear them over the sound of my own machine gun.

Can anyone shed some light on this?


It's similar to the Marco Polo Bridge incident.  The Russian military is attempting to provoke a violent response from the Ukrainians by acting in a way that would lead the Ukrainian troops to believe that they are being threatened.  By using personnel without visible insignia (despite the fact that everyone else recognizes Russia's new military kit) who the Russian's like to refer to as local "militia" the Russians are hoping that the Ukrainian troops will open fire.  This gives Russia official pretext to widely deploy it's armed forces in Ukraine in order to "protect" the "local" militia from the depredations of the "violent" Ukrainian military.


Which is complete bullshiat but some farkstick somewhere might fall for the propaganda thrown out by Russia and not want to go to blows over it.
 
2014-03-07 05:53:49 PM  

palelizard: Some military installations and other buildings in the peninsula have been taken over, but both sides have so far held their fire.

I don't understand this.  If I'm military and hanging out at my military installation and I see people coming towards me with machine guns and are definitely not my military, why wouldn't I open fire?

And if they point those guns at me and say, "Get out", I would think it unlikely I'd hear them over the sound of my own machine gun.

Can anyone shed some light on this?


There are political advantages to not being the side to shoot first. The Ukraine military is presumably waiting for one of these totally-not-russians to blatantly slip up in front of a camera.
 
2014-03-07 05:55:11 PM  
palelizard:
I don't understand this.  If I'm military and hanging out at my military installation and I see people coming towards me with machine guns and are definitely not my military, why wouldn't I open fire?

Because you have orders not to do that. Modern militaries are relatively good at ironing out emotional actions like that and keeping them in line.
 
2014-03-07 05:55:11 PM  
All your bases are belonging to us?
 
2014-03-07 05:56:01 PM  

Vlad_the_Inaner: JK47: mcreadyblue: If the uniforms have no insignia, they are categorized as spies.


By not wearing a uniform with visible insignia the person doesn't enjoy the "combatant's privilege" of committing violence and mayhem without being subject to criminal sanction (conversely, the individual can't be killed on sight at any time either).

According to us, nope.  All they need is an ID card in their pocket, just like our allies the Northern Alliance used when we into Afghanistan back in 2001.

/the difference between unlawful combatant Taliban and Northern Alliance lawful combatant dress: an ID card


Everyone knows Terrorists don't have government issued IDs.
 
2014-03-07 05:56:39 PM  
Its quite obvious the plan was to get the Ukrainian troops to fire the first shot, they did not so the Russian troops withdrew , for now.
 
2014-03-07 05:56:47 PM  
There were two military lorries with Russian number plates outside the gates, surrounded by irregular soldiers and a very hostile crowd of pro-Russian demonstrators, our correspondent adds. Two journalists who attempted to take photographs were beaten badly.

You know, you morons deserve to be ruled by Putin, and everything that comes with that.
 
2014-03-07 05:57:30 PM  

palelizard: I don't understand this.  If I'm military and hanging out at my military installation and I see people coming towards me with machine guns and are definitely not my military, why wouldn't I open fire?


Well, I wouldn't open fire if my standing orders were to avoid firing my weapon at all costs. We don't KNOW that's the Ukrainian strategy but it sure seems like it -- make the Russians make the first move and frustrate their leadership by refusing to engage in a firefight.

Also, this article is out of date because it's already been reported several places that the unmarked soldiers have left the base.
 
2014-03-07 05:57:43 PM  

JK47: It's similar to the Marco Polo Bridge incident.  The Russian military is attempting to provoke a violent response from the Ukrainians by acting in a way that would lead the Ukrainian troops to believe that they are being threatened.  By using personnel without visible insignia (despite the fact that everyone else recognizes Russia's new military kit) who the Russian's like to refer to as local "militia" the Russians are hoping that the Ukrainian troops will open fire.  This gives Russia official pretext to widely deploy it's armed forces in Ukraine in order to "protect" the "local" militia from the depredations of the "violent" Ukrainian military.


Ah.  Thanks.
 
2014-03-07 06:00:35 PM  

JesusJuice: How can Ukrainians fight so hard against their own government and then turn into such complete pussies when Russia starts pushing them around?


You know the old adage -- what if they held a war and no one showed up?

This happens.

Basically, Russia keeps goading Ukraine, and Ukraine keeps denying there's anything going on. This prompts Russia to goad in increasingly aggressive and obvious ways, and eventually, they'll drop a true casus belli.

Or they'll get frustrated and go home.
 
2014-03-07 06:04:19 PM  

God-is-a-Taco: Because you have orders not to do that. Modern militaries are relatively good at ironing out emotional actions like that and keeping them in line.


dukeblue219: Well, I wouldn't open fire if my standing orders were to avoid firing my weapon at all costs. We don't KNOW that's the Ukrainian strategy but it sure seems like it -- make the Russians make the first move and frustrate their leadership by refusing to engage in a firefight.


I just don't see giving up a military installation.  I can see the political ramifications of firing first, and understand the orders thing, but, and this is just me here, "there are armed men on my military base that are not our military" seems like a completely legitimate reason to shoot.

Oh well.  I'm not a diplomat or a general.
 
2014-03-07 06:08:02 PM  

empres77: Has anyone mentioned "crimea river" yet?


I saw a BBC anchor half-sing the start of the broadcast, "How do you solve a problem like Crimea?"
 
2014-03-07 06:11:27 PM  
Best way to deal with a bully is to kick his ass.
And by his I mean Putin.
 
2014-03-07 06:13:30 PM  
40 posts in and NOBODY posted this yet?
img.fark.net
 
2014-03-07 06:13:49 PM  

palelizard: God-is-a-Taco: Because you have orders not to do that. Modern militaries are relatively good at ironing out emotional actions like that and keeping them in line.

dukeblue219: Well, I wouldn't open fire if my standing orders were to avoid firing my weapon at all costs. We don't KNOW that's the Ukrainian strategy but it sure seems like it -- make the Russians make the first move and frustrate their leadership by refusing to engage in a firefight.

I just don't see giving up a military installation.  I can see the political ramifications of firing first, and understand the orders thing, but, and this is just me here, "there are armed men on my military base that are not our military" seems like a completely legitimate reason to shoot.

Oh well.  I'm not a diplomat or a general.


That's why we leave the defense of our nation to the nice men with the discipline and training to not fark up
 
2014-03-07 06:14:44 PM  

mcreadyblue: Everyone knows Terrorists don't have government issued IDs.


i.imgur.com
 
2014-03-07 06:14:56 PM  
img.fark.net

img.fark.net
 
2014-03-07 06:17:42 PM  
The west doesn't really give two shiats about Crimea.
 
2014-03-07 06:18:03 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: palelizard: God-is-a-Taco: Because you have orders not to do that. Modern militaries are relatively good at ironing out emotional actions like that and keeping them in line.

dukeblue219: Well, I wouldn't open fire if my standing orders were to avoid firing my weapon at all costs. We don't KNOW that's the Ukrainian strategy but it sure seems like it -- make the Russians make the first move and frustrate their leadership by refusing to engage in a firefight.

I just don't see giving up a military installation.  I can see the political ramifications of firing first, and understand the orders thing, but, and this is just me here, "there are armed men on my military base that are not our military" seems like a completely legitimate reason to shoot.

Oh well.  I'm not a diplomat or a general.

That's why we leave the defense of our nation to the nice men with the discipline and training to not fark up


Knows about discipline and training:
img.fark.net
LET ME HEAR YOUR WAR CRY!
 
2014-03-07 06:18:48 PM  

palelizard: I just don't see giving up a military installation. I can see the political ramifications of firing first, and understand the orders thing, but, and this is just me here, "there are armed men on my military base that are not our military" seems like a completely legitimate reason to shoot.


It's the long game.  From a short term perspective, you're correct.  In the meantime though, Russia's taking a PR and economic beating globally.  Eventually Putin is going to either have to just leave or he's going to order his troops to attack without cause, which would give the lie to his "we're just here to protect ethinic Russians even though we're totally not here".

If he does the former, the Ukrainians win outright.  If he does the second, the implications won't be lost on Europe and NATO.  The Ukrainians are doing a very good job at managing this situation and it speaks to the brass balled discipline of the Ukrainian armed forces.
 
2014-03-07 06:19:16 PM  

mcreadyblue: If the uniforms have no insignia, they are categorized as spies.


That's a quaint, outmoded way of looking at it.

/Obscure?
 
2014-03-07 06:20:50 PM  

palelizard: God-is-a-Taco: Because you have orders not to do that. Modern militaries are relatively good at ironing out emotional actions like that and keeping them in line.

dukeblue219: Well, I wouldn't open fire if my standing orders were to avoid firing my weapon at all costs. We don't KNOW that's the Ukrainian strategy but it sure seems like it -- make the Russians make the first move and frustrate their leadership by refusing to engage in a firefight.

I just don't see giving up a military installation.  I can see the political ramifications of firing first, and understand the orders thing, but, and this is just me here, "there are armed men on my military base that are not our military" seems like a completely legitimate reason to shoot.

Oh well.  I'm not a diplomat or a general.


air force bases (other articles have suggested that this was one) generally don't have a lot of personal weapons on hand. maybe some pistols or an SMG, but not enough to even slow down an infantry assault. so why bother
 
2014-03-07 06:22:22 PM  

grimlock1972: Its quite obvious the plan was to get the Ukrainian troops to fire the first shot, they did not so the Russian troops withdrew , for now.


They'll return and in greater numbers.
 
2014-03-07 06:23:40 PM  

Robin Hoodie: air force bases (other articles have suggested that this was one) generally don't have a lot of personal weapons on hand. maybe some pistols or an SMG, but not enough to even slow down an infantry assault. so why bother


Though I understand how that could be possible... it still goes against what one would consider common sense.
 
2014-03-07 06:23:58 PM  
Saddam Putin?
 
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