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(The Lancet)   Those crazy people who are afraid of fluoride might have been right all along   (thelancet.com) divider line 130
    More: Scary, fluorides, developmental toxicity, systematic review, cognitive impairment, chemical industries  
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13279 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Mar 2014 at 1:40 PM (40 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



130 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-03-07 01:41:50 PM  
Being right doesn't mean anyone will believe you.
 
2014-03-07 01:42:37 PM  
BUT less cavities

I'd go to a psychiatrist any day of the week over a dentist
 
2014-03-07 01:43:05 PM  
What the hell subby? This isn't a daily mail link how will I know if it is true or not now?
 
2014-03-07 01:43:11 PM  
Well they use it in rat poison.

/and that's the end of the whole mess
 
2014-03-07 01:43:39 PM  
www.storiesofgods.com
 
2014-03-07 01:43:55 PM  

socoloco: Being right doesn't mean anyone will believe you.


silentespeaks.comHa-haaa! You are correct, sir.


/the irony
 
2014-03-07 01:44:27 PM  
But chlorine is still good for you, right?
 
2014-03-07 01:44:42 PM  
If only fluoride was our only worry. Obama haz drōnz!
 
2014-03-07 01:45:08 PM  
PANIC.

/ha, no I won't
 
2014-03-07 01:45:37 PM  
Or not. The letter in TFA doesn't say what submitter thinks it says. Also, you made Paracelsus facepalm/.
 
2014-03-07 01:46:11 PM  
Its ok. I'm vaccinated against flor...

Oooh look at that big shi...

I'm.hungry.
 
2014-03-07 01:46:29 PM  
Interesting.

At what concentrations and exposures?

If it is shown that current levels of exposure cause problems, we can address that.
 
2014-03-07 01:46:36 PM  

Fano: Well they use it in rat poison.

/and that's the end of the whole mess


They also use Coumadin in Rat Poison. Why would they poison people with Atrial Fibrillation with it?!
 
2014-03-07 01:47:09 PM  

hardinparamedic: Or not. The letter in TFA doesn't say what submitter thinks it says. Also, you made Paracelsus facepalm/.


Yeah, I got a bit confused...still am.  Did subby just post the wrong link?
 
2014-03-07 01:47:21 PM  
How many people believe subby without reading the abstract for themselves?
 
2014-03-07 01:48:24 PM  
Yay, neurotoxicants in the water supply! Of course, keep calling those people that ask valid questions "crazy".  Hell, even call them anti-science. That one works pretty well these days. Like the entire city of Portland, Oregon. 

/farkers
//brushing your teeth works well too
///just saiyan
 
2014-03-07 01:48:55 PM  
So we are skipping having the media over-react to a single study and are doing it ourselves? Good, cut out the middleman.
 
2014-03-07 01:49:35 PM  
Given our constant rate of exposure to Fluoride, it can be assumed that we're all slightly retarded, which negates this guys "study" because he's a retard too.
 
2014-03-07 01:49:36 PM  
FTFA: "Since 2006, epidemiological studies have documented six additional developmental neurotoxicants-manganese, fluoride, chlorpyrifos, dichlorodiphenyltrichloroethane, tetrachloroethylene, and the polybrominated diphenyl ethers."


I doubt brushing your teeth with it causes harm, but drinking it in your water all the time is stupid.


And I am convinced that it lowers IQ. It must. There has to be something literally in the water.

/judge away
 
2014-03-07 01:50:28 PM  

hardinparamedic: Fano: Well they use it in rat poison.

/and that's the end of the whole mess

They also use Coumadin in Rat Poison. Why would they poison people with Atrial Fibrillation with it?!


I once trolled a patient worried about 'chemicals' by telling them what warfarin is and how you can buy it at the feed n seed
 
2014-03-07 01:50:39 PM  
Fluoride's danger as a neurotoxin is not in question. The dosage at which it has harmful effects is. That's why they tell you not to brush little kid's teeth with adult toothpaste, and you aren't supposed to swallow it.

Fluoride occurs naturally in many water sources, often in much higher concentrations than the EPA allows in US drinking water.
 
2014-03-07 01:50:51 PM  
When did the Lancet go free?

Also, they used the China studies, and say the following

"A meta-analysis of 27 cross-sectional studies of children exposed to fluoride in drinking water, mainly from China, suggests an average IQ decrement of about seven points in children exposed to raised fluoride concentrations.44 Confounding from other substances seemed unlikely in most of these studies. Further characterisation of the dose-response association would be desirable. "

A call for more research, which I can get behind.
 
2014-03-07 01:51:07 PM  
Woooooo...a review article, with one mention of fluoride, in a table, and no reference....
 
2014-03-07 01:51:19 PM  

walktoanarcade: FTFA: "Since 2006, epidemiological studies have documented six additional developmental neurotoxicants-manganese, fluoride, chlorpyrifos, dichlorodiphenyltrichloroethane, tetrachloroethylene, and the polybrominated diphenyl ethers."


I doubt brushing your teeth with it causes harm, but drinking it in your water all the time is stupid.


And I am convinced that it lowers IQ. It must. There has to be something literally in the water.

/judge away


Flynn effect AWAAAAY!
 
2014-03-07 01:51:47 PM  

WhoGAS: Yeah, I got a bit confused...still am.  Did subby just post the wrong link?


Something tells me that Subby was googling for trollbait and found this, and since 95% of FARkers don't have access to a medical journal clearing house, or aren't willing to pay 15 bucks to read the full article, they can make it support what they like.

SpacePirate: Yay, neurotoxicants in the water supply! Of course, keep calling those people that ask valid questions "crazy".  Hell, even call them anti-science. That one works pretty well these days. Like the entire city of Portland, Oregon. 

/farkers
//brushing your teeth works well too
///just saiyan


Except that overwhelming evidence indicates that even with proper oral hygiene, the rate of dental caries in a population is far less with proper fluoridation of a public water supply and is safe to that population.

If you have evidence that at doses of 0.7 to 1.0ppm public water fluoridation produces fluoride intoxication and neurological injury, please present it for consideration.

/Portland removing fluoridation had nothing to do with Science, and everything to do with backyard NIMBYism.
 
2014-03-07 01:52:13 PM  
The fluoride part was observed in children in China. The average estimated IQ reduction was about 7 points.
I have trouble with pointing to fluroide as the direct cause of the problem, since it's going to be pretty diffuclt to separate out the other potential environmental toxins they might have also been exposed to, what with this being China and all.

Also, this paper starts pulling numbers out of their ass towards the end, where they try to equate each lost IQ point with an $18,000 reduction in lifetime earnings.  We know neurotoxicity is bad. You don't have to make extra stuff up to show how terrible it is.
 
2014-03-07 01:52:14 PM  
Another study about fluoride in China?

A meta-analysis of 27 cross-sectional studies of children exposed to fluoride in drinking water, mainly from China, suggests an average IQ decrement of about seven points in children exposed to raised fluoride concentrations.44

What do I win?
 
2014-03-07 01:53:14 PM  

SpacePirate: Yay, neurotoxicants in the water supply! Of course, keep calling those people that ask valid questions "crazy".  Hell, even call them anti-science. That one works pretty well these days. Like the entire city of Portland, Oregon. 

/farkers
//brushing your teeth works well too
///just saiyan


Portland hasn't exactly been spared neurological problems despite not having fluoride in the water.
 
2014-03-07 01:53:49 PM  

meat0918: At what concentrations and exposures?


400 gallons daily for 3 centuries.
 
2014-03-07 01:53:50 PM  

meat0918: At what concentrations and exposures?

 
2014-03-07 01:53:56 PM  

hardinparamedic: Something tells me that Subby was googling for trollbait and found this, and since 95% of FARkers don't have access to a medical journal clearing house, or aren't willing to pay 15 bucks to read the full article, they can make it support what they like.


The Lancet allows you to view this one for free!!!!!
 
2014-03-07 01:55:32 PM  

meat0918: hardinparamedic: Something tells me that Subby was googling for trollbait and found this, and since 95% of FARkers don't have access to a medical journal clearing house, or aren't willing to pay 15 bucks to read the full article, they can make it support what they like.

The Lancet allows you to view this one for free!!!!!


img.fark.net

Negative, Sir.

I'll try logging into my hospital's intranet and see if I can access it through our ScienceDirect account. But it wont let you view full text.
 
2014-03-07 01:55:55 PM  
At this point in history, if you don't realize that big business does not care about you as an individual then you deserve to be one of the 40% projected to get cancer.  It's not a conspiracy, it's just money focused (greedy?) people passing the blame from the top down.  In the end LEGALLY it will always be your fault you're sick.
 
2014-03-07 01:57:23 PM  

skantea: At this point in history, if you don't realize that big business does not care about you as an individual then you deserve to be one of the 40% projected to get cancer.  It's not a conspiracy, it's just money focused (greedy?) people passing the blame from the top down.  In the end LEGALLY it will always be your fault you're sick.


i2.kym-cdn.com
 
2014-03-07 01:57:46 PM  
But, what a great smile!
 
2014-03-07 01:58:13 PM  
hardinparamedic:
/Portland removing fluoridation had nothing to do with Science, and everything to do with backyard NIMBYism.

They were stupid enough to actually do it? Goddamnitsomuch. I guess they're aiming for a dental health level of "British".
 
2014-03-07 01:58:34 PM  
 
2014-03-07 02:00:47 PM  
Actual study on fluoride cited in Lancet article  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3491930/ "Children in high-fluoride areas had significantly lower IQ scores than those who lived in low-fluoride areas".

Criticism of study  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3621182/ "a difference of 0.4 in mean IQ is clinically negligible, even though it was statistically significant"

Authors' reply to criticism  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3621205/ "For commonly used IQ scores with a mean of 100 and an SD of 15, 0.45 SDs is equivalent to 6.75 points (rounded to 7 points)".

Feel free to draw your own conclusions about whether the claimed 7 points on an IQ score is cause for concern.
 
2014-03-07 02:01:18 PM  

hardinparamedic: meat0918: hardinparamedic: Something tells me that Subby was googling for trollbait and found this, and since 95% of FARkers don't have access to a medical journal clearing house, or aren't willing to pay 15 bucks to read the full article, they can make it support what they like.

The Lancet allows you to view this one for free!!!!!

[img.fark.net image 850x736]

Negative, Sir.

I'll try logging into my hospital's intranet and see if I can access it through our ScienceDirect account. But it wont let you view full text.


See the green bit?

"This article is made available free of charge, as a service to our users."

Not all are, but this one is.
 
2014-03-07 02:02:23 PM  
Which color is the fluoride?
bc_gvpc.edgesuite.net
 
2014-03-07 02:03:23 PM  

meat0918: See the green bit?

"This article is made available free of charge, as a service to our users."

Not all are, but this one is.


Ahah. I need sleep.
 
2014-03-07 02:04:19 PM  
Newsflash: Water is also toxic in high doses.
 
2014-03-07 02:04:26 PM  

hardinparamedic: meat0918: See the green bit?

"This article is made available free of charge, as a service to our users."

Not all are, but this one is.

Ahah. I need sleep.


No worries.

I'm just really excited to have even partial access to the Lancet.
 
2014-03-07 02:04:53 PM  

meat0918: Interesting.

At what concentrations and exposures?


Came here to ask the same thing.
 
2014-03-07 02:05:41 PM  
TFA says nothing about fluoridated water.  The quantities of fluoride that are added to American tap water are very safe and demonstrably so.

Not added fluoride creates numerous carries, some of which can end up becoming infected teeth that must be removed.  Infections in the mouth are very dangerous since they sometimes move on to the brain and cause brain damage or death if not treated quickly.

/Farking Wichita, KS voted against adding fluoride to the water yet again.  They are a bunch of dumbasses that get their health and science information from the likes of Suzanne Somers and Jenny McCarthy.
 
2014-03-07 02:06:05 PM  
They also mention manganese. Our bodies require small amounts of dietary manganese each day.

My children were given daily fluoride as children - drops then tablets - and are healthy intelligent and cavity free. Stop jumping to unfounded conclusions based on one word Subby and go back to your Daily Mail.
 
2014-03-07 02:06:20 PM  
"Untested chemicals should not be presumed to be safe to brain development, and chemicals in existing use and all new chemicals must therefore be tested for developmental neurotoxicity. "

No shiat they shouldn't.

What scares me the most is that apparently they at least the article insists that they don't test chemicals for developmental neurotoxicity already.
 
2014-03-07 02:08:27 PM  

ikanreed: How many people believe subby without reading the abstract for themselves?


Better yet, clicking the link to the entire article? I think fluoride is mentioned once.
 
2014-03-07 02:08:52 PM  
Brain damage?  Well it would certainly explain all the city people on municipal water supplies voting democrat.

Bazinga.
 
2014-03-07 02:09:35 PM  
Annnnd the damage control arrives. Once again people, because brushing your teeth and flossing is apparently too farking hard, let's run the risk of putting light amounts of neurotoxins in everyone's water, all of the time. That makes perfect sense.  

It's not like there are any possible alternatives
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/can-keep-32-chemical-keep-you-cavity-fre e/
 
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