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(The Raw Story)   The State's final witness in the MI same-sex marriage trial testified that unrepentant homosexuals are damned to burn in hell-fire for all eternity. Also tells the court he saw Goody Proctor and Martha Corey consorting with the Devil   (rawstory.com) divider line 115
    More: Asinine, gays and lesbians, Michigan Attorney General, closing arguments, adoption by same-sex couples, expert witnesses, Yale Law School  
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2246 clicks; posted to Politics » on 07 Mar 2014 at 12:06 PM (28 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-07 12:08:44 PM
*cough cough*
 
2014-03-07 12:08:45 PM
Heaven sounds really farking terrible.
 
2014-03-07 12:09:14 PM
Tituba please.
 
2014-03-07 12:09:35 PM
A spokeswoman for the Michigan attorney general, a defendant in the case, told The Detroit News that Allen's personal and religious beliefs have had "no impact on his research and the results it reaches."


Bwahahaaa! Oh, god, that's good stuff.
 
2014-03-07 12:10:23 PM
i don't believe you.gif
 
2014-03-07 12:11:04 PM
So if they're going to burn for eternity anyway, what difference does marriage (or the banning thereof) make?
 
2014-03-07 12:11:23 PM
Sorry. If we're going to accept that testimony as anything but hearsay, you're gonna need empirical evidence.
 
2014-03-07 12:12:22 PM

HotWingConspiracy: Heaven sounds really farking terrible.


As the saying goes, "Heaven for the weather, Hell for the company."

=Smidge=
 
2014-03-07 12:12:43 PM
With a helpful artists rendering of what hell might look like.I imagine

I like to imagine hell being filled with stylish artists wearing mixed blend fabrics, eating from a shellfish, pork and ice cream buffet.
 
2014-03-07 12:12:51 PM

Lord_Baull: A spokeswoman for the Michigan attorney general, a defendant in the case, told The Detroit News that Allen's personal and religious beliefs have had "no impact on his research and the results it reaches."


Bwahahaaa! Oh, god, that's good stuff.


I have to ask again...

Conservatives, doesn't this bother you?  How badly your advocates are at their jobs?   If banning gay marriages is so important to you, why do your advocates keep picking such pathetic and incompetent people as their witnesses at trials?
 
2014-03-07 12:13:07 PM
Hmm, I seem to recall a vague, unimportant, rarely referenced passage of the bible that says something about the right of people to judge others' sins.  But it's too vague and arcane.
 
2014-03-07 12:13:22 PM
I, for one, believe an all-loving god that created the universe and everything in it would condemn a free-willed individual to an eternity of pain and suffering for engaging emotions God instilled into him.
 
2014-03-07 12:13:26 PM
(Paraphrased) "I can think of no greater hell, than to be trapped in 'heaven' for eternity with THESE people...."
 
2014-03-07 12:13:47 PM
This sounds like a bad Law & Order climax. Excellent.
 
2014-03-07 12:14:40 PM

joeshill: With a helpful artists rendering of what hell might look like.I imagine

I like to imagine hell being filled with stylish artists wearing mixed blend fabrics, eating from a shellfish, pork and ice cream buffet.


...and ogling each other's divorced wives.
 
2014-03-07 12:14:45 PM

Lord_Baull: A spokeswoman for the Michigan attorney general, a defendant in the case, told The Detroit News that Allen's personal and religious beliefs have had "no impact on his research and the results it reaches."


Bwahahaaa! Oh, god, that's good stuff.


So did they just commit perjury under oath?
 
2014-03-07 12:15:28 PM

Arkanaut: So if they're going to burn for eternity anyway, what difference does marriage (or the banning thereof) make?


Well, if gays get equal rights and can marry and share their lives in love and happiness (or, you know, at least just be married), many members of the conservative community are going to feel they wasted their lives living a lie.
 
2014-03-07 12:16:18 PM
Take a kid in a foster home and give him the choice between two sets of adoptive parents.

First, a gay couple which will adopt him and then move to the Fiery Pits of Hades.
Second, a straight couple which will adopt him and then move to Detroit.

Now really, which is a better environment to raise a child in?
 
2014-03-07 12:16:24 PM

Satanic_Hamster: Lord_Baull: A spokeswoman for the Michigan attorney general, a defendant in the case, told The Detroit News that Allen's personal and religious beliefs have had "no impact on his research and the results it reaches."


Bwahahaaa! Oh, god, that's good stuff.

I have to ask again...

Conservatives, doesn't this bother you?  How badly your advocates are at their jobs?   If banning gay marriages is so important to you, why do your advocates keep picking such pathetic and incompetent people as their witnesses at trials?



You'd think, if the science was solid and profound, they'd be able to conjure up at least 1 atheist expert.
 
2014-03-07 12:18:27 PM
Photo of the witness in question:
purefreedom.org
 
2014-03-07 12:18:51 PM

Smidge204: HotWingConspiracy: Heaven sounds really farking terrible.

As the saying goes, "Heaven for the weather, Hell for the company."

=Smidge=

"often as not he'd hum the song about That Hell-Bound Train. That was the train the drunks and the sinners rode - the gambling men and the grifters, the big-time spenders, the skirt-chasers, and all the jolly crew. It would be really fine to take a trip in such good company, but Martin didn't like to think of what happened when that train finally pulled into the Depot Way Down Yonder. He didn't figure on spending eternity stoking boilers in Hell, without even a Company Union to protect him. Still, it would be a lovely ride. If there was such a thing as a Hell-Bound Train.  "

 
2014-03-07 12:19:58 PM
We live in such a backwards society....
 
2014-03-07 12:21:48 PM

Satanic_Hamster: Lord_Baull: A spokeswoman for the Michigan attorney general, a defendant in the case, told The Detroit News that Allen's personal and religious beliefs have had "no impact on his research and the results it reaches."


Bwahahaaa! Oh, god, that's good stuff.

I have to ask again...

Conservatives, doesn't this bother you?  How badly your advocates are at their jobs?   If banning gay marriages is so important to you, why do your advocates keep picking such pathetic and incompetent people as their witnesses at trials?


Notice the judge also took the rare step of DENYING expert status to another of the state's witnesses, a Yale law STUDENT who was all set to give some sort of (doubtlessly historically warped)  Review of the philosophical and historical underpinnings to hetero-only marriage in Western  Civ.

I mean really, a law student was the best the state could do?   It  Seems bigots with non-BJU granted degrees are getting mighty thin on the ground these days
 
2014-03-07 12:22:32 PM

Karac: Take a kid in a foster home and give him the choice between two sets of adoptive parents.

First, a gay couple which will adopt him and then move to the Fiery Pits of Hades.
Second, a straight couple which will adopt him and then move to Detroit.

Now really, which is a better environment to raise a child in?


Which part of Detroit?
 
2014-03-07 12:22:56 PM

Satanic_Hamster: Lord_Baull: A spokeswoman for the Michigan attorney general, a defendant in the case, told The Detroit News that Allen's personal and religious beliefs have had "no impact on his research and the results it reaches."


Bwahahaaa! Oh, god, that's good stuff.

I have to ask again...

Conservatives, doesn't this bother you?  How badly your advocates are at their jobs?   If banning gay marriages is so important to you, why do your advocates keep picking such pathetic and incompetent people as their witnesses at trials?


Those are the best people they could find.
 
2014-03-07 12:23:32 PM
That's a pretty damning testimony.
 
2014-03-07 12:24:15 PM
Douglas Allen is a hack and a bigot and never should have been allowed to testify as an expert anything, unless you needed an expert asshole to testify.
 
2014-03-07 12:24:18 PM
Some days, man. Some days I get murderously sick of theocrats. As in, I want to murder them. With sharp sticks.
 
2014-03-07 12:25:01 PM

mrshowrules: Karac: Take a kid in a foster home and give him the choice between two sets of adoptive parents.

First, a gay couple which will adopt him and then move to the Fiery Pits of Hades.
Second, a straight couple which will adopt him and then move to Detroit.

Now really, which is a better environment to raise a child in?

Which part of Detroit?


Presumably inside the city limits.  Where they go to Detroit Public Schools.
 
2014-03-07 12:27:07 PM

palelizard: Arkanaut: So if they're going to burn for eternity anyway, what difference does marriage (or the banning thereof) make?

Well, if gays get equal rights and can marry and share their lives in love and happiness (or, you know, at least just be married), many members of the conservative community are going to feel they wasted their lives living a lie.


Wait, are you talking about Family Values crusaders, or closeted gays?

//assuming there's a difference.
 
2014-03-07 12:28:11 PM

Soup4Bonnie: Douglas Allen is a hack and a bigot and never should have been allowed to testify as an expert anything, unless you needed an expert asshole to testify.


Maybe so, but think about it, this was the guy they CHOSE to help their case.
 
2014-03-07 12:28:47 PM
A spokeswoman for the Michigan attorney general, a defendant in the case, told The Detroit News that Allen's personal and religious beliefs have had "no impact on his research and the results it reaches."

An attorney, who is by his nature an advocate, fails to understand bias. Which is totally understandable. In fact, he is by definition supposed to be biased in support of his case. It is what he is paid to do. Likewise, the "researcher" is part of an organization for which the conclusion is a priori correct. That bias means no matter what, his research has a taint that has to be independently confirmed. Therefore the statement above is possibly true, but the worst person to judge that is a lawyer.
 
2014-03-07 12:29:01 PM
I'm so glad my state is spending money litigating this stupid case.  I guess I can thank the voters for approving this dumb gay marriage ban back in the 2004 election.
 
2014-03-07 12:29:04 PM

Karac: Take a kid in a foster home and give him the choice between two sets of adoptive parents.

First, a gay couple which will adopt him and then move to the Fiery Pits of Hades.
Second, a straight couple which will adopt him and then move to Detroit.

Now really, which is a better environment to raise a child in?


Trick question!  No one moves to Detroit.
 
2014-03-07 12:30:03 PM
No one from SFU is an expert on anything.
 
2014-03-07 12:31:01 PM

palelizard: Sorry. If we're going to accept that testimony as anything but hearsay, you're gonna need empirical evidence.


It'd be nice if our courts insisted on empirical evidence, but unfortunately, the entire legal system is build on the principle that hearsay is just as valid.
 
2014-03-07 12:31:45 PM
The women, who work as nurses, hope to marry and adopt one another's children.

Yeah, with all the important things going on in the world, let's stick our nose in this business. This country has too many people who think Gladys Kravitz is a GD role model.
 
2014-03-07 12:31:53 PM

Arkanaut: Wait, are you talking about Family Values crusaders, or closeted gays?


Does it have to be one or the other?

Derp Du Jour: That's a pretty damning testimony.


It was a hostile witnessing.
 
2014-03-07 12:31:57 PM

dj_bigbird: Soup4Bonnie: Douglas Allen is a hack and a bigot and never should have been allowed to testify as an expert anything, unless you needed an expert asshole to testify.

Maybe so, but think about it, this was the guy they CHOSE to help their case.



To be fair, they are trying to defend the indefensible.  The only real justification for gay marriage bans is either (1) God hates f@gs, or (2) gay marriages are somehow inferior to straight marriages.   Both justifications are completely absurd.  The sooner we get to marriage equality everywhere the better, because then the left can stop neglecting other very important things.
 
2014-03-07 12:32:17 PM

Combustion: (Paraphrased) "I can think of no greater hell, than to be trapped in 'heaven' for eternity with THESE people...."


Old joke: A group of people on their way to a gay-themed pagan BDSM party  are killed in a car crash and are somewhat surprised to find themselves being welcomed into heaven  and greeted with a  embrace by St. Peter who takes them around and asks them whether they'd prefer accommodation in Valhalla, the Elysium Fields, The Happy Hunting Grounds, Nirvana etc etc.  While they are mulling over their choices he brings them to a banquet hall that is like the Platonic ideal of the party they were on their way to: food, wine sex  all they could ever want in glorious abundance   But the notice that the banquet hall is surrounded by clear, soundproof glass walls, on the other side of which are these angry people point and screaming at the goings on in the room their faces contorted with rage.

The newly dead ask St Peter who those people are, and he says casually "Oh those are fundamentalist Christians mostly"  When one of the party observes that their heaven doesn;t seem to enjoyable , St peter turns and says "Who said they were in heaven?  Just a tip? God REALLY hates being told what she thinks"
 
2014-03-07 12:33:01 PM
Once we get their god to take the witness stand, I'll accept this shait as testimony. Otherwise, using religious reasons as testimony is like having the brother of a guy who knows a neighbor who owns a liquor store who sold to a woman who went to school with the grandson of the barber who has a niece who once read an article about a guy who was a cop, and therefore he should be considered an expert in murder trials.
 
2014-03-07 12:33:47 PM

Satanic_Hamster: Conservatives, doesn't this bother you? How badly your advocates are at their jobs? If banning gay marriages is so important to you, why do your advocates keep picking such pathetic and incompetent people as their witnesses at trials?


People smart enough to be competent are generally also too smart to pick that side of the argument.
 
2014-03-07 12:36:10 PM
So much fail. What the actual fark.
 
2014-03-07 12:36:31 PM

Duke Phillips' Singing Bears: Some days, man. Some days I get murderously sick of theocrats. As in, I want to murder them. With sharp sticks.


I feel very much the same way, except with dull and rusty spoons.

/And time.
 
2014-03-07 12:37:27 PM
I don't know if I'm more disturbed by the fact that they think this will carry any weight in a court of law or by the prospect that, in this country, it just might.
 
2014-03-07 12:40:21 PM

palelizard: Arkanaut: So if they're going to burn for eternity anyway, what difference does marriage (or the banning thereof) make?

Well, if gays get equal rights and can marry and share their lives in love and happiness (or, you know, at least just be married), many members of the conservative community are going to feel they wasted their lives living a lie.


No, they will find that out when they die. Well, not really 'cause they'll be dead.
 
2014-03-07 12:41:36 PM
If I didn't know better, I'd say they are trying to throw the case
 
2014-03-07 12:41:41 PM

RoxtarRyan: Once we get their god to take the witness stand, I'll accept this shait as testimony. Otherwise, using religious reasons as testimony is like having the brother of a guy who knows a neighbor who owns a liquor store who sold to a woman who went to school with the grandson of the barber who has a niece who once read an article about a guy who was a cop, and therefore he should be considered an expert in murder trials.


I heard he passed out at 31 flavors.
 
2014-03-07 12:42:36 PM

palelizard: Sorry. If we're going to accept that testimony as anything but hearsay, you're gonna need empirical evidence.


If the Word of God, the foundation of the laws of this nation, is not sufficiently empirical, then what is?
 
2014-03-07 12:43:21 PM

palelizard: Sorry. If we're going to accept that testimony as anything but hearsay, you're gonna need empirical evidence.


They should cross examine the guy until he produces empirical evidence of hell until he cries and when he fails to produce any evidence then move to have him charged with perjury.
 
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