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(The Week)   When it comes to the gay marriage debate, the real bigots are the bigots who call bigots bigots. Bigots   (theweek.com ) divider line
    More: Unlikely, Conor Friedersdorf, Ross Douthat, democratic government, fashion trends  
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1368 clicks; posted to Politics » on 07 Mar 2014 at 1:40 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-07 05:56:38 PM  

timujin: cchris_39: Gecko Gingrich: cchris_39: Now they want everybody to respect their rights (which still don't even exist in a lot of places).

Yes. Yes they do. The sad thing is, you have a problem with this and that makes you 100% wrong.

Respect is earned as it is given.  When it became about forcing  this baker and that barber, the agenda became clear and you support.

What agenda is that?


img.fark.net
 
2014-03-07 05:57:00 PM  

Facetious_Speciest: cchris_39

But anybody who wants their religious rights respected is a bigoted fool whose rights don't matter.

This doesn't even make sense. No one wants to make you marry another guy. No one wants to force you to officiate a gay wedding. No one wants to force your church or temple or whatever to have homosexual marriages, as far as I know. So what religious rights are you talking about?


He has a religious right to be an asshole. but you don't have the right to be an asshole to him because he's an asshole.
 
2014-03-07 05:59:00 PM  
Uchiha_Cycliste

He has a religious right to be an asshole. but you don't have the right to be an asshole to him because he's an asshole.

My religion is quite clear on the concept of being an asshole to assholes. It's my right!
 
2014-03-07 06:01:05 PM  

menschenfresser: cchris_39: There is no bigot like a gay narcissist bigot.

I suppose they believe that if they sue us enough times we'll accept and celebrate their sin as much as they do.

I use to not care.

Then it got to be in your face every damn day and it got annoying.

Now they want everybody to respect their rights (which still don't even exist in a lot of places). But anybody who wants their religious rights respected is a bigoted fool whose rights don't matter.

Arrogant hypocrisy at its finest.

Please point out the exact religious basis - in the Bible - for opposing equal marriage rights and encouraging treating fellow human beings like subhumans for their sexuality.

Note: You can't just say "because muh preacher said so" or "Ah thank it's gross 'n' stuff."

Also, you left out the good troll language about "ramming it down our throats." Do try harder next time.


Every good Christian knows that Jesus was all about hating people who were different from you. He especially was about hating people who believed different things. All Jesus did was preach about the righteousness of hatred, standing up for your beliefs and making sure dissent wasn't tolerated. Jesus was all about exclusion and being an ass.
 
2014-03-07 06:02:42 PM  

UrukHaiGuyz: Christians are lucky as hell that gays treat them with as much respect and consideration as they do


img.fark.net

lelz

beg for mercy u farkers, beg!

/ur post nees moar lion picz
//roflelz

img.fark.net
 
2014-03-07 06:03:34 PM  

Facetious_Speciest: Uchiha_Cycliste

He has a religious right to be an asshole. but you don't have the right to be an asshole to him because he's an asshole.

My religion is quite clear on the concept of being an asshole to assholes. It's my right!


You sound like a solid Christian with a well founded understanding of the New Testament. Like I said above, Jesus was all about hatred and being an asshole to anyone who was different. It was his big thing.
 
2014-03-07 06:05:32 PM  

Uchiha_Cycliste: He has a religious right to be an asshole. but you don't have the right to be an asshole to him because he's an asshole.


It's right there in the book of Lloyd, chapter 8, versus 5-9:

And Lloyd said unto Harry, "You're it."
Harry, upon hearing this, said unto Lloyd, "You're it."
Lloyd then replied, "You're it, quitsies!"
And behold, Harry spoketh unto Lloyd, "Anti-quitsies, you're it, quitsies, no anti-quitsies, no startsies!"
Lloyd replied, "You can't do that!"
Harry replied, "Can too!"
Lloyd replied, "Cannot, stamp it!"
Harry, "Can too, double stamp it, no erasies!"
Lloyd, "Cannot, triple stamp, no erasies, Touch blue make it true."
Harry, "No, you can't do that... you can't triple stamp a double stamp, you can't triple stamp a double stamp! Lloyd!"
Lloyd, "LA LA LA LA LA LA!"
Harry, "LLOYD! LLOYD! LLOYD! "

Amen.
 
2014-03-07 06:06:38 PM  

Gecko Gingrich: Uchiha_Cycliste: He has a religious right to be an asshole. but you don't have the right to be an asshole to him because he's an asshole.

It's right there in the book of Lloyd, chapter 8, versus 5-9:

And Lloyd said unto Harry, "You're it."
Harry, upon hearing this, said unto Lloyd, "You're it."
Lloyd then replied, "You're it, quitsies!"
And behold, Harry spoketh unto Lloyd, "Anti-quitsies, you're it, quitsies, no anti-quitsies, no startsies!"
Lloyd replied, "You can't do that!"
Harry replied, "Can too!"
Lloyd replied, "Cannot, stamp it!"
Harry, "Can too, double stamp it, no erasies!"
Lloyd, "Cannot, triple stamp, no erasies, Touch blue make it true."
Harry, "No, you can't do that... you can't triple stamp a double stamp, you can't triple stamp a double stamp! Lloyd!"
Lloyd, "LA LA LA LA LA LA!"
Harry, "LLOYD! LLOYD! LLOYD! "

Amen.


Amen.
 
2014-03-07 06:07:12 PM  

rwhamann: In a Acts 10 Peter receives a vision from God telling him to kill and eat some unclean animals. This is frequently interpreted to lift the arbitrary rules of diet and other silly rules from Leviticus, (along with the greater message tha salvation was not restricted from the Gentile) - rules which were there mainly to prove the folly of living by a set of rules anyway. However, Paul, in the New Testament, still condemns homosexuality. And this was the bitter pill for me - how can God create gay people, yet deny them the gift of love and marriage? It was a long road, turning away from that. Doug Pinnick, a Christian singer who came out as gay in 2001, wrote a very emotional a powerful letter to his fans on the topic. That was where I started turning away, and started to take a lot less of the bible as literal and more of it as cultural setting and lyrical.


What God has cleansed, call thee not common (or something like that) doesn't cover anything but the food and, at that, only food that God has "cleansed".  Interpreting it to mean the other rules are null and void.

As for the New Testament, Jesus healed a Roman centurion's gay slave lover ("valued highly", indeed), so he didn't seem to have too much of a problem with them.

/not the best person to discuss this with as I believe that Jesus was likely not an actual person, but rather sewn together from the cloth of a dozen different tales by that paranoid schizophrenic from Tarsus, so my view is, well, tainted at best.
 
2014-03-07 06:10:00 PM  
Wow. Facts be damned.
 
2014-03-07 06:12:36 PM  

Uchiha_Cycliste: Every good Christian knows that Jesus was all about hating people who were different from you. He especially was about hating people who believed different things. All Jesus did was preach about the righteousness of hatred, standing up for your beliefs and making sure dissent wasn't tolerated. Jesus was all about exclusion and being an ass.


If Jeeebus is ok width anti-gay marriage then how combs he kreayted lewsiphur so beyuteefull?

Judge not..

upload.wikimedia.org

sinnars!!1! hateful bigot racists!

*stares*

lelz
 
2014-03-07 06:15:21 PM  

I drunk what: UrukHaiGuyz: Christians are lucky as hell that gays treat them with as much respect and consideration as they do

[img.fark.net image 718x550]

lelz

beg for mercy u farkers, beg!

/ur post nees moar lion picz
//roflelz

[img.fark.net image 275x183]


Please stop spamming that same pic in every thread. You're the worst performance artist on Fark.
 
2014-03-07 06:18:16 PM  

Uchiha_Cycliste: You sound like a solid Christian with a well founded understanding of the New Testament. Like I said above, Jesus was all about hatred and being an asshole to anyone who was different. It was his big thing.


THIS^^^

Jeeebuz loves all the kulurs of teh rainbow

fc09.deviantart.netcdn-www.i-am-bored.com
img.fark.netwww.quickmeme.com

s3.amazonaws.com

LELZ
 
2014-03-07 06:30:07 PM  

I drunk what: Uchiha_Cycliste: Every good Christian knows that Jesus was all about hating people who were different from you. He especially was about hating people who believed different things. All Jesus did was preach about the righteousness of hatred, standing up for your beliefs and making sure dissent wasn't tolerated. Jesus was all about exclusion and being an ass.

If Jeeebus is ok width anti-gay marriage then how combs he kreayted lewsiphur so beyuteefull?

Judge not..

[upload.wikimedia.org image 850x502]

sinnars!!1! hateful bigot racists!

*stares*

lelz


And on that note. if the Devil spends all his time in Hell punishing sinners, why is he considered evil or the antithesis of God, it seems like he's doing half of God's job for him. God rewarding the good and the devil punishing the bad. Hell, he's probably doing 98% of God's job and God only has to deal with a few percentage of those who die.
 
2014-03-07 06:32:11 PM  

UrukHaiGuyz: I drunk what: UrukHaiGuyz: Christians are lucky as hell that gays treat them with as much respect and consideration as they do

[img.fark.net image 718x550]

lelz

beg for mercy u farkers, beg!

/ur post nees moar lion picz
//roflelz

[img.fark.net image 275x183]

Please stop spamming that same pic in every thread. You're the worst performance artist on Fark.


But the gays are *literally* steamrolling people... =P
 
2014-03-07 06:34:16 PM  

Uchiha_Cycliste: But the gays are *literally* steamrolling people... =P


hez such a noob

obviously imma postin it uniconically..

duh  ;P
 
2014-03-07 06:34:50 PM  
Uchiha_Cycliste:

And on that note. if the Devil spends all his time in Hell punishing sinners, why is he considered evil or the antithesis of God, it seems like he's doing half of God's job for him. God rewarding the good and the devil punishing the bad. Hell, he's probably doing 98% of God's job and God only has to deal with a few percentage of those who die.

Gawdamm...that's a good point
 
2014-03-07 06:39:39 PM  

Barfmaker: Uchiha_Cycliste:

And on that note. if the Devil spends all his time in Hell punishing sinners, why is he considered evil or the antithesis of God, it seems like he's doing half of God's job for him. God rewarding the good and the devil punishing the bad. Hell, he's probably doing 98% of God's job and God only has to deal with a few percentage of those who die.

Gawdamm...that's a good point


Right?... so what the hell? How is he not God's left hand man? Jesus of course sitting on the right hand.
 
2014-03-07 06:48:29 PM  

Uchiha_Cycliste: menschenfresser: cchris_39: There is no bigot like a gay narcissist bigot.

I suppose they believe that if they sue us enough times we'll accept and celebrate their sin as much as they do.

I use to not care.

Then it got to be in your face every damn day and it got annoying.

Now they want everybody to respect their rights (which still don't even exist in a lot of places). But anybody who wants their religious rights respected is a bigoted fool whose rights don't matter.

Arrogant hypocrisy at its finest.

Please point out the exact religious basis - in the Bible - for opposing equal marriage rights and encouraging treating fellow human beings like subhumans for their sexuality.

Note: You can't just say "because muh preacher said so" or "Ah thank it's gross 'n' stuff."

Also, you left out the good troll language about "ramming it down our throats." Do try harder next time.

Every good Christian knows that Jesus was all about hating people who were different from you. He especially was about hating people who believed different things. All Jesus did was preach about the righteousness of hatred, standing up for your beliefs and making sure dissent wasn't tolerated. Jesus was all about exclusion and being an ass.


That's really funny because they really don't realize how they go against what there religion claims to stand for as one of its most basic tenets. Of course, they'll just turn it around and say that "you're the real bigot" for not allowing them to discriminate and therefore your intolerance of discrimination is itself discrimination.

Also notice how this guy never responded to me with whatever part of the Bible he's basing that nonsense on - precisely because it isn't there. They aren't even using anything actually religious to prop up their "belief" that certain groups of people don't deserve rights just because they are who they are. A part of me almost wishes that THEY would start being the ones who are singled out just for existing, and are allowed fewer rights than everyone else. But that would be wrong - particularly in the eyes of the religion they claim to follow but nonetheless stand for everything opposite to it.
 
2014-03-07 06:50:47 PM  
Yeah, but the left hand is the poopie hand.
 
2014-03-07 06:52:58 PM  

cchris_39: Gecko Gingrich: cchris_39: Now they want everybody to respect their rights (which still don't even exist in a lot of places).

Yes. Yes they do. The sad thing is, you have a problem with this and that makes you 100% wrong.

Respect is earned as it is given.  When it became about forcing  this baker and that barber, the agenda became clear and you support.


No different than serving blacks. Your arguments were no only wrong 50 years ago, they didn't work. And they are still wrong (and won't work) today. That is good and right.
 
2014-03-07 06:57:32 PM  
You know what this thread needs?  Someone to post that gay steamroller pic.
 
2014-03-07 06:58:57 PM  

menschenfresser: Uchiha_Cycliste: menschenfresser: cchris_39: There is no bigot like a gay narcissist bigot.

I suppose they believe that if they sue us enough times we'll accept and celebrate their sin as much as they do.

I use to not care.

Then it got to be in your face every damn day and it got annoying.

Now they want everybody to respect their rights (which still don't even exist in a lot of places). But anybody who wants their religious rights respected is a bigoted fool whose rights don't matter.

Arrogant hypocrisy at its finest.

Please point out the exact religious basis - in the Bible - for opposing equal marriage rights and encouraging treating fellow human beings like subhumans for their sexuality.

Note: You can't just say "because muh preacher said so" or "Ah thank it's gross 'n' stuff."

Also, you left out the good troll language about "ramming it down our throats." Do try harder next time.

Every good Christian knows that Jesus was all about hating people who were different from you. He especially was about hating people who believed different things. All Jesus did was preach about the righteousness of hatred, standing up for your beliefs and making sure dissent wasn't tolerated. Jesus was all about exclusion and being an ass.

That's really funny because they really don't realize how they go against what there religion claims to stand for as one of its most basic tenets. Of course, they'll just turn it around and say that "you're the real bigot" for not allowing them to discriminate and therefore your intolerance of discrimination is itself discrimination.

Also notice how this guy never responded to me with whatever part of the Bible he's basing that nonsense on - precisely because it isn't there. They aren't even using anything actually religious to prop up their "belief" that certain groups of people don't deserve rights just because they are who they are. A part of me almost wishes that THEY would start being the ones who are singled out just for existing, an ...


You're preaching to the choir buddy.
But also, you didn't seriously expect a response from that ass did you? You've been here for 5 years, surely you've seen him post this kind of shiat all over and then dodge any followups asking for elaboration or justification. He's just a GOP spout-box and ignorant god botherer.
As House would say, if you could reason with religious people there would be no religious people. All they have is a feeling of what they think is right or wrong; a gut feeling, substantiated by nothing more than how they wish the world worked. They start with what they want or believe and then when asked to qualify they throw up the word "RELIGION" as an end all for arguments. Do not pass Go, do not collect 200 dollars, this conversation ends now because "RELIGION"  It's become some magical panacea for defending any belief no matter what that belief is. Racism,- RELIGION... bigotry - RELIGION.  beating your kids because you are a horrible person - RELIGION!  there is no theological backing to their beliefs, there is just a bizarrely evolving cultural attitude that when you say RELIGION  counter-arguments are invalid and explanations are unnecessary.
 
2014-03-07 07:01:29 PM  

theknuckler_33: cchris_39: Gecko Gingrich: cchris_39: Now they want everybody to respect their rights (which still don't even exist in a lot of places).

Yes. Yes they do. The sad thing is, you have a problem with this and that makes you 100% wrong.

Respect is earned as it is given.  When it became about forcing  this baker and that barber, the agenda became clear and you support.

No different than serving blacks. Your arguments were no only wrong 50 years ago, they didn't work. And they are still wrong (and won't work) today. That is good and right.


that was communism. not being allowed to deny service to blacks, and race-mixing was the exact same thing as having a single sided government that owned all of the means of production and all property. If you weren't allowed to discriminate it meant that the government had removed all incentive to work hard and meritocracy from society, somehow.
 
2014-03-07 07:02:44 PM  

theknuckler_33: You know what this thread needs?  Someone to post that gay steamroller pic.


the best thing is that comic has nothing to do with gays, it's all grammar.
 
2014-03-07 07:04:19 PM  

cchris_39: Gecko Gingrich: cchris_39: Now they want everybody to respect their rights (which still don't even exist in a lot of places).

Yes. Yes they do. The sad thing is, you have a problem with this and that makes you 100% wrong.

Respect is earned as it is given.  When it became about forcing  this baker and that barber, the agenda became clear and you support.


You can keep your goddamned respect princess. The law only says you don't get to be a bigoted farking dirtbag and refuse service to gays because of your pathetic bronze age superstitions. Respect that and you'll be just fine guy.
 
2014-03-07 07:10:13 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: ManateeGag: mrshowrules: I don't have an issue with people being bigots, I have an issue with them acting on their bigotry and institutionalizing it.

i can agree with this.  you are free to be all the asshole you want to be, just don't try to force your assholery to be the the law of the land.

So it doesn't bother you even a little bit that God is going to smite us for our wicked ways?


Why should anybody be upset at an imaginary construct potentially behaving like a spoiled child?
 
2014-03-07 07:19:40 PM  
SkinnyHead:.

As a result of that Smith decision, Congress enacted the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, and many states followed suit by enacting state versions of that act.  Arizona is one of those states.  Arizona recognizes a religious defense for Native Americans who are prosecuted for using peyote as part of their religious ceremonies.  Toleration and accommodation of the sincerely held religious beliefs of others, when feasible, is certainly a more enlightened approach.



Bzzzzt... Sorry, still doesn't help because that law was overturned for state and local laws in Boerne v Flores.  Why you ask amiable?  Because the court felt it impinged on Congresses ability to enforce the 14th Amendment.  Whats the justification for allowing gay marriage ?  Oh, yeah, equal protection under the 14th amendment.
 
2014-03-07 07:25:55 PM  

rwhamann: timujin: rwhamann: timujin: rwhamann: Ugh.  This one is extremely difficult for me. I'm a born again Christian. Used to be against gay marriage, but only because the bible said so. That was the only reason. I didn't hate gays. I didn't want them to die.  I thought the rules against homosexuality were frightfully unfair, and I knew they couldn't be backed up without the bible. I even as silly as it sounds prayed and begged God to change his mind on that issue.

Was I a bigot?  My religion told me it was a sin, even though I saw nothing wrong with it. I felt horrible espousing a rule I didn't think was just but just couldn't get away from.

So I gave up on that rule. And a lot of my faith died with it. But I still pray, and I still believe and hope for a day  that the loving God I believe in and the Iron/Bronze/whatever age precepts are revealed as solely cultural.

Those of you who say that all religious people are bigoted are wrong. There are surely many hiding their hate behind the Word, but I cannot believe that I was the only person that followed it but wished it would go away.

You could ignore all the other rules that aren't brought up in the average Sunday sermon, but are just as much the "word of god", but it was that one you had to pray about to get past?

I don't know what rules you're talking about, but in a word yes. I didn't really ignore rules - I recognized that I was human, I sin, and prayed for help to stop sinning. But that one stuck in my craw because I couldn't understand why it was a sin - it seems arbitrary capricious and even cruel, especially if someone is born gay.


/All the snide comments about shellfish and mixed fabrics in the thread sound like they score mega points, but the New Testament clearly abolished most if not all unclean issues.

How did the New Testament "abolish" those issues?  Shellfish and mixed fabrics, along with a host of other ridiculous rules, are clearly enumerated in Leviticus, the same place that people get the rules ...


Since you claim to be a Christian, why don't you just use what Jesus Christ said about homosexuals as your guide?
 
2014-03-07 07:36:05 PM  

menschenfresser: Also notice how this guy never responded to me with whatever part of the Bible he's basing that nonsense on - precisely because it isn't there.


Romans 1:24-27 (Deceived into sin by the creature)

24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen. 26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

1 Cor 6:9-10 (Condemned)

9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality

1 Cor 6:11 (Redemption and forgiveness )

11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
 
2014-03-07 07:38:47 PM  

cchris_39: menschenfresser: Also notice how this guy never responded to me with whatever part of the Bible he's basing that nonsense on - precisely because it isn't there.

Romans 1:24-27 (Deceived into sin by the creature)

24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen. 26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

1 Cor 6:9-10 (Condemned)

9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality

1 Cor 6:11 (Redemption and forgiveness )

11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.


That says they are bad and won't go to heaven. It doesn't say anything about judging them yourself or denying them service. Why do we not have the same controversy regarding idolators or adulterers?
 
2014-03-07 07:49:25 PM  

give me doughnuts: rwhamann: timujin: rwhamann: timujin: rwhamann: Ugh.  This one is extremely difficult for me. I'm a born again Christian. Used to be against gay marriage, but only because the bible said so. That was the only reason. I didn't hate gays. I didn't want them to die.  I thought the rules against homosexuality were frightfully unfair, and I knew they couldn't be backed up without the bible. I even as silly as it sounds prayed and begged God to change his mind on that issue.

Was I a bigot?  My religion told me it was a sin, even though I saw nothing wrong with it. I felt horrible espousing a rule I didn't think was just but just couldn't get away from.

So I gave up on that rule. And a lot of my faith died with it. But I still pray, and I still believe and hope for a day  that the loving God I believe in and the Iron/Bronze/whatever age precepts are revealed as solely cultural.

Those of you who say that all religious people are bigoted are wrong. There are surely many hiding their hate behind the Word, but I cannot believe that I was the only person that followed it but wished it would go away.

You could ignore all the other rules that aren't brought up in the average Sunday sermon, but are just as much the "word of god", but it was that one you had to pray about to get past?

I don't know what rules you're talking about, but in a word yes. I didn't really ignore rules - I recognized that I was human, I sin, and prayed for help to stop sinning. But that one stuck in my craw because I couldn't understand why it was a sin - it seems arbitrary capricious and even cruel, especially if someone is born gay.


/All the snide comments about shellfish and mixed fabrics in the thread sound like they score mega points, but the New Testament clearly abolished most if not all unclean issues.

How did the New Testament "abolish" those issues?  Shellfish and mixed fabrics, along with a host of other ridiculous rules, are clearly enumerated in Leviticus, the same place that people get ...


If you'd read what I wrote entirely, donuts, you'd see that I essentially have - I could not reconcile a loving kind and compassionate God and a merciful Christ His Son with the condemnation of homosexuality.  You're right - He doesn't say a thing about it in the Gospels, and that figured prominently in my change of heart.  Of course, he also said precious little about cheating people with Credit Default Swaps, and I'm pretty sure that's a sin too, so lack of words from Christ on the subject is not the be-all end-all.  When all is said and done, condemnation of someone for the way they were born is not compatible with a loving and merciful God, and that doctrine is way more important than anything else.  I hope I right.
 
2014-03-07 07:51:23 PM  

Fafai: That says they are bad and won't go to heaven. It doesn't say anything about judging them yourself or denying them service. Why do we not have the same controversy regarding idolators or adulterers?


That was the other part of my disillusionment - for some reason Gay is way worse than cheating on your taxes, oppressing the poor, smoking, cheating on your wife ...
 
2014-03-07 07:53:31 PM  

cchris_39: menschenfresser: Also notice how this guy never responded to me with whatever part of the Bible he's basing that nonsense on - precisely because it isn't there.

Romans 1:24-27 (Deceived into sin by the creature)

24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen. 26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

1 Cor 6:9-10 (Condemned)

9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality

1 Cor 6:11 (Redemption and forgiveness )

11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.


Thank you for providing your evidence! So, what you cite here provides evidence that gay people may not enter Heaven. Especially if they worship creatures, or something. Sounds to me like your big guy has it all covered, then - they're going to Hell. Now, where does it say that YOU have a right to treat them as subhumans and deny them rights allowed to others -you know, what I asked you to provide evidence for? The basis for discrimination? Or are we just saying that anybody condemned in the Bible is fair game for being treated differently than everyone else? Because THAT would be interesting, since it seems to cover pretty much everybody.
 
2014-03-07 07:55:00 PM  

rwhamann: Fafai: That says they are bad and won't go to heaven. It doesn't say anything about judging them yourself or denying them service. Why do we not have the same controversy regarding idolators or adulterers?

That was the other part of my disillusionment - for some reason Gay is way worse than cheating on your taxes, oppressing the poor, smoking, cheating on your wife ...


Notice they ignore everything except the parts that they imagine to support their completely non-religious-based biases.
 
2014-03-07 07:58:02 PM  
Idolaters and adulterers hide their sins.

Some Christians will not want to be around what they view as openly unrepentant sinners. To that end a lot don't want to be around binging addicts and serial adulterers either.
 
2014-03-07 08:10:33 PM  

cchris_39: Idolaters and adulterers hide their sins.

Some Christians will not want to be around what they view as openly unrepentant sinners. To that end a lot don't want to be around binging addicts and serial adulterers either.


Okay, then! So, when do we start removing rights of addicts and adulterers, then?! This could be fun! Should we jail them, execute them or what do you think?! I mean, that book right there contains a couple of passages that tangentially reference those people, among a few thousand other passages I'm ignoring - but it's totally not based on my personal prejudices or anything. Goody, this is gonna be fun!
 
2014-03-07 08:13:11 PM  

cchris_39: Idolaters and adulterers hide their sins.

Some Christians will not want to be around what they view as openly unrepentant sinners. To that end a lot don't want to be around binging addicts and serial adulterers either.


It's amusing how you have to tie yourself in logical knots to justify being a bigot.
 
2014-03-07 08:28:08 PM  

cchris_39: Some Christians will not want to be around what they view as openly unrepentant sinners.


What's a "sin" is in the eye of the beholder. So you're telling me they expect all people to conform to the rules of their religion even if they don't belong to that religion. That is not what Religious Freedom means. It's kind of the opposite actually.
 
2014-03-07 08:28:47 PM  

theknuckler_33: cchris_39: Idolaters and adulterers hide their sins.

Some Christians will not want to be around what they view as openly unrepentant sinners. To that end a lot don't want to be around binging addicts and serial adulterers either.

It's amusing how you have to tie yourself in logical knots to justify being a bigot.


What is this? Bible trivia night?

Eph 5:11. Romans 1:32
 
2014-03-07 08:36:24 PM  

Uchiha_Cycliste: You're preaching to the choir buddy.
But also, you didn't seriously expect a response from that ass did you? You've been here for 5 years, surely you've seen him post this kind of shiat all over and then dodge any followups asking for elaboration or justification. He's just a GOP spout-box and ignorant god botherer.
As House would say, if you could reason with religious people there would be no religious people. All they have is a feeling of what they think is right or wrong; a gut feeling, substantiated by nothing more than how they wish the world worked. They start with what they want or believe and then when asked to qualify they throw up the word "RELIGION" as an end all for arguments. Do not pass Go, do not collect 200 dollars, this conversation ends now because "RELIGION"  It's become some magical panacea for defending any belief no matter what that belief is. Racism,- RELIGION... bigotry - RELIGION.  beating your kids because you are a horrible person - RELIGION!  there is no theological backing to their beliefs, there is just a bizarrely evolving cultural attitude that when you say RELIGION  counter-arguments are invalid and explanations are unnecessary.


I couldn't have put that any better than you did.

You're right, too, about arguing with people like this. They have no logic or rational reasoning. They'd gleefully start believing that 2+2=5 if their book said that was true (assuming they chose not to ignore that part, anyway...). It makes me so sad that we have to share a planet with these people. Having said that, I still would never support giving them fewer rights than others because of it, and I'd still serve this jerk in a shop if the situation were to arise like that. They'd better hope they never end up getting treated like they insist on treating all these other people their "religion" deems to be sub-human, because in many ways one could argue that they've actually earned the mistreatment given what they've done to others in the past. Thanks and g'nite!
 
2014-03-07 08:38:06 PM  

cchris_39: theknuckler_33: cchris_39: Idolaters and adulterers hide their sins.

Some Christians will not want to be around what they view as openly unrepentant sinners. To that end a lot don't want to be around binging addicts and serial adulterers either.

It's amusing how you have to tie yourself in logical knots to justify being a bigot.

What is this? Bible trivia night?

Eph 5:11. Romans 1:32


Still not seeing anything about not having to associate with such people for business purposes. Unless you're claiming to run heaven as your private business. This all has to do with wether these people are saved, not wether they should be treated as equal human beings in this life. Are you claiming to be the authority on who gets to be saved? Isn't that in itself blasphemy?

Also even if the bible did say not to serve gays, who gives a fark. The bible is not the law. You should be happy knowing you'll be safe in heaven after all this is over. If you had any real faith in that, the here and now wouldn't really be an issue. You'd happily go to jail knowing all would be right in the end. Or conversely, you'd happily associate with gay people and sinners freely in the chance that you'll lead them to salvation through kindness and showing them the way to the light or whatever. This really shouldn't bother you at all if you have any real convictions regarding your faith.
 
2014-03-07 08:40:50 PM  

cchris_39: Some Christians will not want to be around what they view as openly unrepentant sinners. To that end a lot don't want to be around binging addicts and serial adulterers either.


Then leave.  How hard is that?
 
2014-03-07 08:53:00 PM  

cchris_39: theknuckler_33: cchris_39: Idolaters and adulterers hide their sins.

Some Christians will not want to be around what they view as openly unrepentant sinners. To that end a lot don't want to be around binging addicts and serial adulterers either.

It's amusing how you have to tie yourself in logical knots to justify being a bigot.

What is this? Bible trivia night?


No, it's "bigots trying to hide behind scripture night".
 
2014-03-07 08:54:03 PM  

cchris_39: menschenfresser: Also notice how this guy never responded to me with whatever part of the Bible he's basing that nonsense on - precisely because it isn't there.

Romans 1:24-27 (Deceived into sin by the creature)

24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen. 26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

1 Cor 6:9-10 (Condemned)

9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality

1 Cor 6:11 (Redemption and forgiveness )

11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.


Please cite your source that these are the actual instructions of Yahweh and not the work of the assholes who wrote it, the Devil, a different God, or any other supernatural being.
 
2014-03-07 08:59:19 PM  

menschenfresser: Uchiha_Cycliste: You're preaching to the choir buddy.
But also, you didn't seriously expect a response from that ass did you? You've been here for 5 years, surely you've seen him post this kind of shiat all over and then dodge any followups asking for elaboration or justification. He's just a GOP spout-box and ignorant god botherer.
As House would say, if you could reason with religious people there would be no religious people. All they have is a feeling of what they think is right or wrong; a gut feeling, substantiated by nothing more than how they wish the world worked. They start with what they want or believe and then when asked to qualify they throw up the word "RELIGION" as an end all for arguments. Do not pass Go, do not collect 200 dollars, this conversation ends now because "RELIGION"  It's become some magical panacea for defending any belief no matter what that belief is. Racism,- RELIGION... bigotry - RELIGION.  beating your kids because you are a horrible person - RELIGION!  there is no theological backing to their beliefs, there is just a bizarrely evolving cultural attitude that when you say RELIGION  counter-arguments are invalid and explanations are unnecessary.

I couldn't have put that any better than you did.

You're right, too, about arguing with people like this. They have no logic or rational reasoning. They'd gleefully start believing that 2+2=5 if their book said that was true (assuming they chose not to ignore that part, anyway...). It makes me so sad that we have to share a planet with these people. Having said that, I still would never support giving them fewer rights than others because of it, and I'd still serve this jerk in a shop if the situation were to arise like that. They'd better hope they never end up getting treated like they insist on treating all these other people their "religion" deems to be sub-human, because in many ways one could argue that they've actually earned the mistreatment given what they've done to others in the ...


The real consolation in this situation is that I believe it's really a generational problem and I expect to see enormous demographic shifts between now and when I'm old and creaky. I just don't expect the kids who are kids today to place such stock in RELIGION in the near and far future as those who grew up during WWII and the Cold War. I'm really quite excited and I think the internet, cell phones and the communication of information and ideas are a major player in these shifts. I think it's generational and I think each passing generation will find less to blindly believe from religion.
 
2014-03-07 09:03:11 PM  

Uchiha_Cycliste: The real consolation in this situation is that I believe it's really a generational problem and I expect to see enormous demographic shifts between now and when I'm old and creaky. I just don't expect the kids who are kids today to place such stock in RELIGION in the near and far future as those who grew up during WWII and the Cold War. I'm really quite excited and I think the internet, cell phones and the communication of information and ideas are a major player in these shifts. I think it's generational and I think each passing generation will find less to blindly believe from religion.


But then things will have changed so that our sensibilities make us the terrible dinosaurs of the future. People will be waiting for us to die off too. It's why that I wonder/worry about.
 
2014-03-07 09:13:10 PM  

Fafai: Uchiha_Cycliste: The real consolation in this situation is that I believe it's really a generational problem and I expect to see enormous demographic shifts between now and when I'm old and creaky. I just don't expect the kids who are kids today to place such stock in RELIGION in the near and far future as those who grew up during WWII and the Cold War. I'm really quite excited and I think the internet, cell phones and the communication of information and ideas are a major player in these shifts. I think it's generational and I think each passing generation will find less to blindly believe from religion.

But then things will have changed so that our sensibilities make us the terrible dinosaurs of the future. People will be waiting for us to die off too. It's why that I wonder/worry about.


I figure as long as we aren't assholes, hateful or exclusionary we have nothing to worry about. I mean, it goes without saying that we had the best taste in music and movies and the golden age on television is now, but those firm beliefs should have no bearing on future generations hating us. And admit it, it will be badass hearing Gangsta Paradise in the nursing home.
 
2014-03-07 09:19:00 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: Pincy: what_now: They appear to want and expect all Americans to recognize and affirm that equal dignity, under penalty of ostracism from civilized life

Yes. That's exactly right.

You are free to be a bigot. Hate all you want. Join the Klan, fly the Confederate flag, tattoo a swastika to your forehead.

But other people will look down at you.

Came here to say this exact same thing.

Funny thing is, I actually prefer that people be more open about their bigotry.  It makes it a lot easier to avoid them.

Same with gay people. Some are rather obvious about it, and are therefore easy to avoid. Whereas others aren't noticeably gay and there is no way to immediately recognize that they are. Maybe they are single despite being reasonable looking and successful, maybe they dont like sports as much as regular guys do, maybe they don't ogle women or make off color comments, etc., so you can speculate that they are gay but you can't really tell.

I know this makes me sound bigoted to those here who are intolerant of those who aren't PC, but it is really aggravating when you meet a gay person who seems outwardly normal and doesn't make it apparent that he's gay.

You might start hanging out with the person, talking about sports or electronics or cars, bringing him to group events to meet your other buddies, inviting him to poker night, having sex a few times, going ballgames together and whatnot, THEN finding out he's a homo. I know they didn't choose to be gay but not disclosing it upfront is horribly rude IMO.


It must be hard work to be this farkin stupid.
 
2014-03-07 09:26:44 PM  
What's so amusing about this 'marriage' debate is that one side deserves what it is getting, while the other is getting what it doesn't deserve.

The Christians who invited the State into the marriage arena in an attempt to socially engineer opened the door to this. Rule #1 is simple. Never, ever, invite the State to regulate, encourage, discourage, or otherwise involve itself in anything. You will invite destruction to the institution. Marriage was fine before the religious people attempted to coerce people into religious life by offering State-given benefits. They initiated a process that sullied marriage by making it a business transaction rather than a promise made before the Creator to conduct one's spiritual and reproductive life in a manner consistent with teachings.

The proponents of gay favoritism under the so-called 'marriage' law are not for equality, but they wish to be granted the same favorable status. Imagine if Martin Luther King led marches for civil rights to make blacks equal under the law to whites, but not for Latino or Asian people. The underlying inequality still exists: why are people who choose to enter in a 'marriage' given preferential treatment over people who stay single? Why can't two single people, best friends, enter into a contract that allows for visitation at the hospital, power of attorney, etc.?

There's not a single reason for the State to grant favorable status to people who enter into a specific type of contract over those who do not. End all 'marriage' benefits from the State so the institution can heal.
 
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