If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Mother Jones)   Study shows that no amount of logic, reason, or science can change an anti-vaccinator's mind   (motherjones.com) divider line 34
    More: Obvious, Brendan Nyhan, MMR, messages  
•       •       •

4058 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Mar 2014 at 9:17 AM (28 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2014-03-07 09:18:57 AM
8 votes:
You didn't need a study for that.  If dead kids aren't enough to change their minds then nothing will.
2014-03-07 09:35:04 AM
5 votes:
We need to see a reverse psychology version of this study. Tell parents that we only have a limited amount of these vaccines, and the free market dictates that they go to the highest bidder. They will be demanding accessible, affordable vaccinations in no time. Give it to them, and let them think they won a David v. Goliath battle against Big Pharma.
2014-03-07 10:45:47 AM
4 votes:
I think the general reason anti-vaxxers are grouped in with tea partiers is because of the anti science angle, but the nice thing about anti vaxxer stupidity is it knows no political bounds. you can find this particular brand of idiot on the radical fringe of either side of the political spectrum.
2014-03-07 09:26:04 AM
3 votes:
Yes, we had a whopping cough outbreak here because we have some lovely granola-eating types 'round here who go blahblahblahherdimmunityblahblahautism.

Not quite as bad as the folks who claim their kid has a gluten-dairy-egg-meat-nut "allergy", or so says their doctor- that is, their Doctor of Naturopathic and Eastern medicine. I imagine that kid had a fun-filled life.
2014-03-07 10:45:50 AM
2 votes:

Silly_Sot: MyRandomName: ristst: Reminds me of the Tea Party

A large set of anti vaccers are liberals... no study has shown large sets being tea party... so.. lolwut?

Since you're an idiot, I'll spell it out.

The BEHAVIOR reminds the poster of Teabagger behavior. And said poster is correct. It pretty much IS Teabagger behavior and the Teabagger mind, merely in a liberal outfit.


So I used to work at a 'natural childbirth' center. Which meant, I got to meet a HUGE number of people who were anti-vaccine, homeopathy, homeschooling crazies. I'm generalizing here a bit because I didn't keep perfect track, but out of say 100 clients, we'd have around 20 who were in these camps. Of those, it was a near perfect 50/50 split between conservative and liberal. In all cases, they were the extreme of one or the other. I find this type of mindset to be true among personal acquaintances as well. It's really rather fascinating seeing the extreme cases arguing with each other, when they have so much to agree on. Only big difference I see between the two: the extreme left tends toward over the top political correctness and the extreme right is the complete opposite.

/new owners of the birth center are extremely conservative, religious, anti-vaccination, homeopathy-using, homeschooling, vegan-granola-eating, 'spy on employees while complaining the gubment is spying on them', etc crazy types...
2014-03-07 09:43:45 AM
2 votes:
I think I'll step in here. Many on the fringe left believe that the government/corporation axis hides the truth about anything that might cut into the bottom line. These people' faith is in their all-knowing paranoia, not in a god. So it isn't all religious fanatacism, just an other kind of the same closed-mindedness. Besides, Jesus is an extraterrestrial.
2014-03-07 09:36:56 AM
2 votes:
You cannot be reasoned out of a position you weren't reasoned into. This news is so old that when yo mama was your age she said this news is so old that when yo mama was your age she said this news is so old that when yo mama....
2014-03-07 09:30:57 AM
2 votes:
It's faith with these people.  Sometimes it's paired with some religious creed...sometimes it's part of the  anti-gov, free-market paranoia/mania, but either way it's no different than religion.   Using facts, science and logic to convince these people that they are wrong about vaccination is like trying to convince a devout Muslim that Muhammad is not the prophet, or trying to convince an orthodox Jew that Moses never parted the Red Sea.  It's even worse with the Ayn Rand fans.  People like this once occupied the lunatic fringe, but they are now a sizable minority, with millions of adherents, and are capable of tilling national elections their way. This is why Murica is doomed.

/Nothing funny about it
2014-03-07 09:19:58 AM
2 votes:
Reminds me of the Tea Party
2014-03-07 09:18:59 AM
2 votes:
I need a vaccine that protects me from stupid people.
2014-03-07 12:20:59 PM
1 votes:

Fissile: It's faith with these people.  Sometimes it's paired with some religious creed...sometimes it's part of the  anti-gov, free-market paranoia/mania, but either way it's no different than religion.   Using facts, science and logic to convince these people that they are wrong about vaccination is like trying to convince a devout Muslim that Muhammad is not the prophet, or trying to convince an orthodox Jew that Moses never parted the Red Sea.  It's even worse with the Ayn Rand fans.  People like this once occupied the lunatic fringe, but they are now a sizable minority, with millions of adherents, and are capable of tilling national elections their way. This is why Murica is doomed.

/Nothing funny about it


All your references are against the right wing. Do you not know? The liberal granola contingent are the urban anti-vax revolutionaries. The right-wingers who don't vax live mostly in the country. The major threat, where un-needled folks are cloistered within city limits, comes from left-wingers. Millions of them at this point.

/There, now you all can go back to arguing like the people in the article
//Not left, right, or centrist
///Vaccinated
2014-03-07 12:19:19 PM
1 votes:
This study has a fatal flaw.

I'm in the public health sector, and part of my job is promoting vaccines (along with shoing people how to poop on a stick to prevent colon cancer).

All the serious research shows that about 40% of vax-deniers are unreachable, but the rest are swayed by either docs or info given by friends who know better. We're reinforcing the peer group, so that they can better shoot down the stupid when their friends say "but...Autism!". The 60% aren't really hardcore. They're simply a little bit concerned, and this usually shows up in delays in vaccinations, not refusals. Up here in canadaland, we're still at 95 to 97% coverage for all the childhood vaccines.

So the campaigns aren't really aimed at those who are already on the fence at all. We're just being wingmen to their smart friends.
2014-03-07 11:52:39 AM
1 votes:
People who did not reach their position through reason cannot be reached by reason.
2014-03-07 11:51:13 AM
1 votes:
This is why vaccinations should be mandatory with no exemptions.
2014-03-07 11:44:20 AM
1 votes:
FTA: "Nyhan and one of his coauthors, Jason Reifler of the University of Exeter in the United Kingdom, are actually the coauthors of a much discussed previous study showing that when politically conservative test subjects read a fake newspaper article containing a quotation of George W. Bush asserting that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction, followed by a factual correction stating that this was not actually true, they believed Bush's falsehood more strongly afterwards-an outcome that Nyhan and Reifler dubbed a "backfire effect."

There was another article I read about conservatives, where the researchers found that the more educated (as in book learnin') conservatives were actually more concretely wacko than their less-bookish conservative brethren. Seems that what they believe is much more tied to their sense of self than with liberals, and they will discard factual information if that information runs contrary to their current knowledge, that knowledge being part of the "self" they want to protect.

So it doesn't really matter if the information is true or false... if it doesn't fit with their pre-aligned biases and beliefs it will be tossed, lest they start to question who they are and what they truly believe.

Kinda explains the bible-thumpers and FoxNoise too, don't it?
2014-03-07 11:33:34 AM
1 votes:
It is possible, but not easy, to change someone's mind - to a certain extent, anyways. My wife, I found out, was sort of "anti-vaccine light" - wasn't sure kids needed all of them, and believed some of the BS about too many vaccinations at once "overwhelming your immune system". I felt very strongly about the issue, and we talked at length about it... and eventually she agreed with me that our daughter would go on a normal vaccination schedule.

Then I got T1 diabetes (lucky me) and she read up on the environmental trigger aspect of it - and was suddenly on board with our daughter getting every vaccine that exists, pretty much, in the hopes that she won't have a trigger later (chickenpox is one of the potential trigger viruses, I think). Now she is loving the fact that all of the kids in her class have chickenpox and she is just happy as a clam.

She still believes in taking vitamins for just about everything, though. I am learning to let that one go.
2014-03-07 11:22:13 AM
1 votes:

DrewCurtisJr: ikanreed: they're endangering(with a huge increase in risk) your kids for no reason.

Like I said, hyperbole doesn't change minds. What is the huge increase is risk in real numbers?


http://www.cdc.gov/pertussis/images/pertussis-graph-2012-lg.gif
2014-03-07 11:02:28 AM
1 votes:

ikanreed: they're endangering(with a huge increase in risk) your kids for no reason.


Like I said, hyperbole doesn't change minds. What is the huge increase is risk in real numbers?
2014-03-07 11:00:13 AM
1 votes:

someonelse: s1ugg0: MyRandomName: ristst: Reminds me of the Tea Party

A large set of anti vaccers are liberals... no study has shown large sets being tea party... so.. lolwut?

Citation Needed.

There is a bit of crossover of cranky libertarian anti-vaccination people. But for the most part they seem to be crunchy granola new age hippie types who are simply ignorant, misinformed, and tremendously suspicious of the "industry" side of the medical industry.


So basically you just pulled that out of your ass because you "think" it's true.  Thanks for making that clear.
2014-03-07 10:37:17 AM
1 votes:

NerdCoreRageQuit: Anti vaxxers tend to run the gamut of beliefs, so I don't think it's fair to say one way or another that it's the liberals' or conservatives' fault.  Me, I blame stupid.  See charts

Case in point:  My friend's mother-in-law and sister-in-law are strong anti-vaxxers, and they're religious bigots from New Jersey, recently moved to California.  They really don't fit in.  Her husband, on the other hand, is a sharp guy and has an MD in Pathology.  You'd think that anything he could say to them would have an effect.  No matter what he says, argues or educates, they still don't believe.


"Agree to not kill my kids or I divorce you and sue for custody" is where I'd tend to end up, myself.
2014-03-07 10:30:16 AM
1 votes:

NerdCoreRageQuit: ragekage: Yes, we had a whopping cough outbreak here because we have some lovely granola-eating types 'round here who go blahblahblahherdimmunityblahblahautism.

Hey now, don't lump us granola eating types in with the Anti-Vaxxars.  A lot of us wish they would just move to another state and die off already.  From my experience, the granola eating types are less likely to follow organized religion and are more open to science and tech (at least here in Northern California).


Yeah, I'm going to be disinclined to agree here.  New-age therapies, and other anti-science bullshiat is endemic to the culture.  That doesn't mean hippy->idiot, just that certain classes of idiots tend to favor hippy-lite attitudes.
2014-03-07 10:26:10 AM
1 votes:
Best way to influence an anti-vacccer's mind:

i.imgur.com
2014-03-07 10:23:06 AM
1 votes:

doubled99: Yeah great study,  the same goes for just about any highly controversial topic that exists today.


It's only "controversial" the same way that Mr. Obama's native citizenship is "controversial"--brought up over and over by lunatic fringe dipshiats who would greatly improve humanity by ceasing to swim in the gene pool.

They don't need to die, just stop reproducing.
2014-03-07 10:14:13 AM
1 votes:

Deep Contact: Is there any convincing scientific evidence that mass inoculations can be credited with eliminating any childhood disease?


The disappearance of:

Smallpox
Polio
Whooping Cough
MMR
etc etc

are all tied to vaccines.   Or aliens.

And, conversely, their resurgence in California when people stopped taking vaccines in large numbers (see herd immunity).   Although that could also be aliens.
2014-03-07 09:58:59 AM
1 votes:
Some people aren't built for science.  That's fine.  It's not a bad thing.  But then they're permitted to make very important decisions that influence the lives of others in deadly ways.  This is not cool.  So if the question can't be "how can we convince them?"  It must be "How do we stop them?"
2014-03-07 09:55:34 AM
1 votes:
I can draw a pretty simple line at this one:

People who dont vaccinate their children should have their parental rights removed.

This is the more civilized answer I could conjure.
2014-03-07 09:52:14 AM
1 votes:

tillerman35: In the words of the immortal Tull, "My words but a whisper, your deafness a shout."


I may make you feel, but I can't make you think.
2014-03-07 09:36:55 AM
1 votes:
The comments in TFA make fark vaccination threads seem civil.
2014-03-07 09:30:07 AM
1 votes:

MyRandomName: ristst: Reminds me of the Tea Party

A large set of anti vaccers are liberals... no study has shown large sets being tea party... so.. lolwut?


Saying stupid people stick to stupid ideas....... not that tea party participants are anti-vac chanters.

/Analogy comprehension fail
2014-03-07 09:27:25 AM
1 votes:

ristst: Reminds me of the Tea Party


A large set of anti vaccers are liberals... no study has shown large sets being tea party... so.. lolwut?
2014-03-07 09:25:13 AM
1 votes:
img.photobucket.com
2014-03-07 09:24:12 AM
1 votes:

ChipNASA: Because they're *right*


This. Nothing quite like righteousness and knowledge to make one evil and stupid.
2014-03-07 09:23:26 AM
1 votes:
In the words of the immortal Tull, "My words but a whisper, your deafness a shout."
2014-03-07 09:23:26 AM
1 votes:
Yeah great study,  the same goes for just about any highly controversial topic that exists today.
 
Displayed 34 of 34 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report