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(Mother Jones)   Study shows that no amount of logic, reason, or science can change an anti-vaccinator's mind   (motherjones.com) divider line 134
    More: Obvious, Brendan Nyhan, MMR, messages  
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4054 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Mar 2014 at 9:17 AM (20 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-07 12:21:33 PM

Deep Contact: Is there any convincing scientific evidence that mass inoculations can be credited with eliminating any childhood disease?


Yes. Are you capable of understanding it? Since you asked that question to begin with, I'm guessing the answer is "No".
 
2014-03-07 12:26:24 PM
ts4.mm.bing.net
 
2014-03-07 12:27:22 PM

Null Pointer: This is why vaccinations should be mandatory with no exemptions.


Damn it people,we need more, education, fear, and pressure.
 
2014-03-07 12:37:32 PM
There's a saying I always try to remind myself of when I'm about to get in an argument... 

"you can't reason a person out of something they were never reasoned into."
 
2014-03-07 12:42:21 PM

Wangiss:  The liberal granola contingent are the urban anti-vax revolutionaries.

Again, do not label everyone in the granola contingent as anti vax revolutionaries.  Please see posts above.


SpectroBoy: I think the cause and effect are the other way around.

Hippies tend to be nice to everyone, including people who are dumb or believe dumb things.
All people want to be around people who treat them with respect.
For anti-vaxxers the hippy community is one of the places they can spout their ignorance without people mocking them.


You bring up a very good point.
 
2014-03-07 01:18:49 PM

HindiDiscoMonster: I feel that children should be vaccinated for the barrage of things we all got vaccinated for as kids... beyond that I think it is unnecessary and may be detrimental (unless a superbug comes along). One of the reasons we have superbugs in the first place is the overuse/abuse of antibiotics for every scraped knee. The immune system is meant to be strengthened when you are a child... this is done by teaching it what to attack, which is done by normal colds and flu viruses... otherwise, you grow up with an immune system that is too weak and every single thing bothers you as an adult. you will get sick when people around you do not, etc. Now, for me, personally, I refuse every single flu or pneumonia vaccine offered for a different reason... every single time (without fail) that I have been vaccinated as an adult, I have gotten exactly what I was vaccinated against... and that is no fun. I choose not to participate because one thing I do not EVER want is pneumonia because once you have had it, you are much more susceptible to getting it every time you get a cold or flu. Thanks, but no thanks.


Uh, VACCINES STRENGTHEN THE IMMUNE SYSTEM. The train it to recognize pathogens just like free-range bugs do.
Best if you maybe learn word one before leaping to the keyboard
 
2014-03-07 01:19:40 PM
If only we could push the stupid envelope just a little teeny bit further and convince these people that jumping off a very high cliff is a good idea.
 
2014-03-07 01:28:08 PM

Null Pointer: This is why vaccinations should be mandatory with no exemptions.


With the usual exceptions for those very few who are unable to be vaccinated for (rare) legitimate medical reasons.
 
2014-03-07 01:30:15 PM
Consider this; when these unvacinated individuals join the military, or Deities forbid the draft is reinstated, these new recruits will be segregated from the other recruits who are further along in the training cycle.
During this isolation period, they will "share" the diseases that other recruits have brought with them.
Also during this period, they will be inoculated against any and all diseases that a service member might encounter.
The Medical Personnel I have encountered are not know for their sense of humor and are very hard of hearing in certain respects. The phrase "No, I don't want those shots." does Not exist in their vocabulary.
Won't that be interesting?
 
2014-03-07 01:43:49 PM
Vaccinations should be mandatory under threat of prosecution, that includes jail time and sterilization.
 
2014-03-07 01:46:19 PM

someonelse: We need to see a reverse psychology version of this study. Tell parents that we only have a limited amount of these vaccines, and the free market dictates that they go to the highest bidder. They will be demanding accessible, affordable vaccinations in no time. Give it to them, and let them think they won a David v. Goliath battle against Big Pharma.


A variant of this technique was used successfully by Captain Cook to get his crew to eat the sauerkraut he had packed as an antiscorbutic. Anger against perceived favouritism will trump any sort of sincerely held but stupid belief.
 
2014-03-07 02:02:33 PM
Again folks,

Vaccines do not cause Autism
WIFI does not cause migraines
Odors cannot trigger an allergy attack

How hard is it??


Fark does cause farkoffatwork-itus though
 
2014-03-07 02:03:04 PM
It's the same as any other conspiracy theorist or religious nut. It's effectively a religious belief, in that it's a firm belief not based on any real facts. There's no arguing or debating with someone like that. No fact will change their mind.
 
2014-03-07 02:05:16 PM

Egoy3k: HindiDiscoMonster: Egoy3k: HindiDiscoMonster: Pants full of macaroni!!: [img.photobucket.com image 709x492]

the flaw in that logic is this: gravity

prove gravity exists. give a definitive measurement like you can with electricity or magnetism... show lines of force, something to directly prove it exists.

either gravity exists or the earth just sucks... I vote the latter.

:P

You can measure gravity pretty easily.  millions of people carry accelerometers around in their pocket.

hu·mor /ˈ(h)yoomər/
noun: humour; noun: humor; noun: cardinal humor; plural noun: cardinal humors
1. the quality of being amusing or comic, esp. as expressed in literature or speech.

Sorry poes law....
/It may also help to replace the batteries in your snark-o-meter
//accelerometers measure a symptom of gravity, not the thing itself.


As opposed to magnetometers, voltmeters or ammeters?


yep, pretty much...

magnetometers measure gauss, voltmeters measure potential only, and ammeters measure actual flow of electrons.

let me know when you see a gravity wave, a particle of gravity, or a crack of gravity in the air... or even some other force tangentially related to gravity such as magnetism directly correlates with electrical flow then we'll talk about that. till then I still say the earth sucks... :P
 
2014-03-07 02:07:11 PM

s1ugg0: MyRandomName: ristst: Reminds me of the Tea Party

A large set of anti vaccers are liberals... no study has shown large sets being tea party... so.. lolwut?

Citation Needed.


Sadly I have to agree with him. Well I would say leftist moreso than liberals. Think of the granola eating PETA types.
 
2014-03-07 02:07:13 PM

anuran: HindiDiscoMonster: I feel that children should be vaccinated for the barrage of things we all got vaccinated for as kids... beyond that I think it is unnecessary and may be detrimental (unless a superbug comes along). One of the reasons we have superbugs in the first place is the overuse/abuse of antibiotics for every scraped knee. The immune system is meant to be strengthened when you are a child... this is done by teaching it what to attack, which is done by normal colds and flu viruses... otherwise, you grow up with an immune system that is too weak and every single thing bothers you as an adult. you will get sick when people around you do not, etc. Now, for me, personally, I refuse every single flu or pneumonia vaccine offered for a different reason... every single time (without fail) that I have been vaccinated as an adult, I have gotten exactly what I was vaccinated against... and that is no fun. I choose not to participate because one thing I do not EVER want is pneumonia because once you have had it, you are much more susceptible to getting it every time you get a cold or flu. Thanks, but no thanks.

Uh, VACCINES STRENGTHEN THE IMMUNE SYSTEM. The train it to recognize pathogens just like free-range bugs do.
Best if you maybe learn word one before leaping to the keyboard


maybe you should take an annex course in reading comprehension 101 before derping so hard.
 
2014-03-07 02:09:08 PM

Noticeably F.A.T.: Deep Contact: Is there any convincing scientific evidence that mass inoculations can be credited with eliminating any childhood disease?

Yes. Are you capable of understanding it? Since you asked that question to begin with, I'm guessing the answer is "No".


Good answer vaccine stock holder.
 
2014-03-07 02:10:22 PM

Johnsnownw: Vaccinations should be mandatory under threat of prosecution, that includes jail time and sterilization.


Thank you for providing the Nazi perspective... I am sure we did Nazi that coming.
 
2014-03-07 02:22:55 PM

Deep Contact: Noticeably F.A.T.: Deep Contact: Is there any convincing scientific evidence that mass inoculations can be credited with eliminating any childhood disease?

Yes. Are you capable of understanding it? Since you asked that question to begin with, I'm guessing the answer is "No".

Good answer vaccine stock holder.


I can't tell, are you trolling or just stupid?
 
2014-03-07 02:26:50 PM

James10952001: Deep Contact: Noticeably F.A.T.: Deep Contact: Is there any convincing scientific evidence that mass inoculations can be credited with eliminating any childhood disease?

Yes. Are you capable of understanding it? Since you asked that question to begin with, I'm guessing the answer is "No".

Good answer vaccine stock holder.

I can't tell, are you trolling or just stupid?


He's not an idiot, he just plays one on the internet. Or something.
 
2014-03-07 02:50:18 PM
The history of just polio and its vaccines is shrouded in a murky mist of politico/scientific manipulation, altered statistics, redefinition and reclassification of the disease. Everybody knows this. Stop acting dumb. You get your vaccines because it makes you feel good inside and makes the guy in the lab coat not hate your living guts.
 
2014-03-07 03:15:43 PM
 
2014-03-07 03:31:42 PM

Deep Contact: The history of just polio and its vaccines is shrouded in a murky mist of politico/scientific manipulation, altered statistics, redefinition and reclassification of the disease.


Not to people who actually study things instead of doing a quick copy/paste from pseudo-scientific "studies".

Good job on that, by the way. You're an idiot, but you're at least polite enough about it to make it easy for other people to confirm it. Not many idiots are.
 
2014-03-07 03:57:49 PM
"The history of just polio and its vaccines is shrouded in a murky mist of politico/scientific manipulation, altered statistics, redefinition and reclassification of the disease. Everybody knows this. Stop acting dumb. You get your vaccines because it makes you feel good inside and makes the guy in the lab coat not hate your living guts."

Rand "Shia LaBeouf" Paul
 
2014-03-07 04:36:23 PM

NerdCoreRageQuit: Wangiss:  The liberal granola contingent are the urban anti-vax revolutionaries.

Again, do not label everyone in the granola contingent as anti vax revolutionaries.  Please see posts above.


That's not what I did. I said liberal anti-vaxxers live more in the city than conservative anti-vaxxers. I'm talking about well established geographical politics.
 
2014-03-07 04:48:51 PM

Wangiss: NerdCoreRageQuit: Wangiss:  The liberal granola contingent are the urban anti-vax revolutionaries.

Again, do not label everyone in the granola contingent as anti vax revolutionaries.  Please see posts above.

That's not what I did. I said liberal anti-vaxxers live more in the city than conservative anti-vaxxers. I'm talking about well established geographical politics.


Liberal anything is more common in cities and rural areas tend to be much more conservative. That's entirely separate from the anti vaxxer nonsense.
 
2014-03-07 04:55:38 PM

Wangiss: NerdCoreRageQuit: Wangiss:  The liberal granola contingent are the urban anti-vax revolutionaries.

Again, do not label everyone in the granola contingent as anti vax revolutionaries.  Please see posts above.

That's not what I did. I said liberal anti-vaxxers live more in the city than conservative anti-vaxxers. I'm talking about well established geographical politics.


Ok.  I see what you mean.  I can agree that liberal anti-vaxxers are more urban.  I cannot agree with your original statement that all liberals who eat granola are anti vaxxers, which is how the original statement is structured.  It's like a Venn diagram-- one is true of the other, but not necessarily the other way around.  But yes, I see what you're getting at and I (now) agree.
 
2014-03-07 05:07:33 PM

larrynightmarehotmail.com: Deep Contact: Derp

Sorry, you get an F for plagiarism.

http://www.google.com/#q=%22shrouded+in+a+murky+mist+of+politico%2Fs ci entific+manipulation%2C+altered+statistics%2C+redefinition+and+reclass ification+of+the+disease%22


I know I should be surprised by intellectual dishonesty in a pseudoscientist, but catching the plagiarism is still pretty funny to me.
 
2014-03-07 05:37:07 PM

James10952001: Wangiss: NerdCoreRageQuit: Wangiss:  The liberal granola contingent are the urban anti-vax revolutionaries.

Again, do not label everyone in the granola contingent as anti vax revolutionaries.  Please see posts above.

That's not what I did. I said liberal anti-vaxxers live more in the city than conservative anti-vaxxers. I'm talking about well established geographical politics.

Liberal anything is more common in cities and rural areas tend to be much more conservative. That's entirely separate from the anti vaxxer nonsense.


And the closer infected persons dwell, the more of a threat they are to the population, right?
 
2014-03-07 06:48:56 PM

ikanreed: Failing to vaccinate is like letting 8 year olds swim without supervision,


I've been swimming a number of times where I saw families where the 8 year old was in charge of the supervision. "Keep an eye on your little sisters while they in the water." Luckily the life guards were on the lookout to pull kids out of the water.
 
2014-03-07 08:12:29 PM
1.bp.blogspot.com
Some men you just can't reach.
 
2014-03-07 09:36:57 PM

Noticeably F.A.T.: Deep Contact: The history of just polio and its vaccines is shrouded in a murky mist of politico/scientific manipulation, altered statistics, redefinition and reclassification of the disease.

Not to people who actually study things instead of doing a quick copy/paste from pseudo-scientific "studies".

Good job on that, by the way. You're an idiot, but you're at least polite enough about it to make it easy for other people to confirm it. Not many idiots are.


You just don't like the message twerp.
 
2014-03-07 11:10:22 PM

anuran: Null Pointer: This is why vaccinations should be mandatory with no exemptions.

With the usual exceptions for those very few who are unable to be vaccinated for (rare) legitimate medical reasons.


I had a bad reaction to the pertussis shot. As a result my younger brother and sister never got it. I'm one of the few legit reasons to not have my bloodline get a vaccine. If I ever have kids (big if) they're going to get everything but the pertussis shot pending a discussion with a doctor.

Herd immunity is needed for people like me.
 
2014-03-08 06:11:03 PM
Penn & Teller's Bullshiat episode on vaccines is obligatory in these threads. I'm sad to see it has not been posted. You may not like Penn much, but he is 100% spot on in disarming the anti-vaccine movement:
 
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