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(BBC)   Your guide to the flags being flown by protesters the Ukraine   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 28
    More: PSA, Ukraine  
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3480 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Mar 2014 at 7:05 AM (36 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



28 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-03-07 12:27:27 AM  
And with our destroyers entering the Black Sea, you'll soon be seeing some of these:
www.eventresources.com
It means we're there to kick ass and chew gum, and you'd better hope we don't run out of gum.

thingist.com
 
GBB
2014-03-07 07:06:26 AM  
upload.wikimedia.org

Because, why not?
 
2014-03-07 07:15:28 AM  
...in the Ukraine?
 
2014-03-07 07:15:31 AM  
I still don't understand why this is even a newsworthy thing.  It just doesn't make sense to me.   The citizens of Crimea *want* to be part of Russia.  Russia is happy to have them.  So, what's the big deal?
 
2014-03-07 07:18:07 AM  

ciarraic: ...in the Ukraine?


Just "in Ukraine".
 
2014-03-07 07:21:33 AM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: I still don't understand why this is even a newsworthy thing.  It just doesn't make sense to me.   The citizens of Crimea "want" to be part of Russia.  Russia is happy to have them.  So, what's the big deal?

 
2014-03-07 07:23:17 AM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: I still don't understand why this is even a newsworthy thing.  It just doesn't make sense to me.   The citizens of Crimea *want* to be part of Russia.  Russia is happy to have them.  So, what's the big deal?


Because Crimea currently is not a part of Russia, and Russia has invaded a sovereign nation.

There are people in Quebec that don't want to be Canadian but you don't see France invading to try and help them break away.

/(Weak analogy, I'll try to do better next time)
 
2014-03-07 07:29:49 AM  
It's early, so I thought the headline read "flown by prostitutes".
 
2014-03-07 07:36:06 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: And with our destroyers entering the Black Sea, you'll soon be seeing some of these:
[www.eventresources.com image 850x585]
It means we're there to kick ass and chew gum, and you'd better hope we don't run out of gum.

[thingist.com image 396x397]




and these

US Navy Jack

www.crwflags.com
 
2014-03-07 07:37:47 AM  

CarnySaur: It's early, so I thought the headline read "flown by prostitutes".


The Prostitutes have their own flag? Looks like somebody wants to be invaded Giggidy!
 
2014-03-07 07:38:22 AM  
 
2014-03-07 07:38:25 AM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: I still don't understand why this is even a newsworthy thing.  It just doesn't make sense to me.   The citizens of Crimea *want* to be part of Russia.  Russia is happy to have them.  So, what's the big deal?


That referendum was made while they were occupied illegally by 30000 russian troops.
 
2014-03-07 07:39:56 AM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: I still don't understand why this is even a newsworthy thing.  It just doesn't make sense to me.   The citizens of Crimea *want* to be part of Russia.  Russia is happy to have them.  So, what's the big deal?


The lgtb community living in Crimea wants to be a part of Russia? I doubt it.
 
2014-03-07 07:45:19 AM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: I still don't understand why this is even a newsworthy thing.  It just doesn't make sense to me.   The citizens of Crimea *want* to be part of Russia.  Russia is happy to have them.  So, what's the big deal?


Russia tends to not have the greatest record when it comes to other countries' plebiscites.

/Poland wanted to join the USSR!
//Look at those votes!
 
2014-03-07 07:52:51 AM  
They'll be ok as long as they don't fly the flag of Manetheren.
 
rpl
2014-03-07 07:57:31 AM  

timswar: Fark_Guy_Rob: I still don't understand why this is even a newsworthy thing.  It just doesn't make sense to me.   The citizens of Crimea *want* to be part of Russia.  Russia is happy to have them.  So, what's the big deal?

Because Crimea currently is not a part of Russia, and Russia has invaded a sovereign nation.

There are people in Quebec that don't want to be Canadian but you don't see France invading to try and help them break away.

/(Weak analogy, I'll try to do better next time)


Crimea is autonomous and the "polite folk" are yet to be officially confirmed as RF troops. Assuming that happens, the agreement between the RF and Ukraine allows for the presence of up to 25,000 troops in Crimea. Everything's squeaky clean.
 
2014-03-07 08:08:58 AM  

GreatGlavinsGhost: CarnySaur: It's early, so I thought the headline read "flown by prostitutes".

The Prostitutes have their own flag? Looks like somebody wants to be invaded Giggidy!


The prostitutes are revolting, and they don't look so hot neither.
 
2014-03-07 08:25:29 AM  
I don't see how it's different than Texas wanting to leave Mexico and later join the US.  Or even the English colonies wanting to declare their independence.....I'm sure England's papers were declaring the French invasion and local insurgents were attempting to topple their government!  But yeah - it all just seems super hypocritical to me.

Anyway, Russia's actions don't strike me as any worse or different than the US's actions in a handful of countries.

Ukraine doesn't want to lose part of it's country because of $power and $wealth.  It's not about the people or what they want or what is good for them.  It's about the value of the land and the taxes those people generate, and the strategic value.  The EU would rather Russia not have more power (specifically gas) and has better relations with the Ukraine....so naturally, they side with the Ukraine.  Meanwhile, China, who is pals with Russia, agrees with Russia.

I dunno, it confuses me and it all seems silly.
 
2014-03-07 08:34:22 AM  

timswar: Fark_Guy_Rob: I still don't understand why this is even a newsworthy thing.  It just doesn't make sense to me.   The citizens of Crimea *want* to be part of Russia.  Russia is happy to have them.  So, what's the big deal?

Because Crimea currently is not a part of Russia, and Russia has invaded a sovereign nation.

There are people in Quebec that don't want to be Canadian but you don't see France invading to try and help them break away.

/(Weak analogy, I'll try to do better next time)


OK but that still doesnt tell me why I should give a fark thousands of miles away.
 
2014-03-07 08:36:36 AM  

rpl: timswar: Fark_Guy_Rob: I still don't understand why this is even a newsworthy thing.  It just doesn't make sense to me.   The citizens of Crimea *want* to be part of Russia.  Russia is happy to have them.  So, what's the big deal?

Because Crimea currently is not a part of Russia, and Russia has invaded a sovereign nation.

There are people in Quebec that don't want to be Canadian but you don't see France invading to try and help them break away.

/(Weak analogy, I'll try to do better next time)

Crimea is autonomous and the "polite folk" are yet to be officially confirmed as RF troops. Assuming that happens, the agreement between the RF and Ukraine allows for the presence of up to 25,000 troops in Crimea. Everything's squeaky clean.


No, it isn't.  The right of the US to use the naval base at Gitmo does not give it the right to occupy entire state of Guantanamo.  And the "polite folk" have self-confirmed as RF infantry, according to reports.
 
2014-03-07 08:48:30 AM  
Its the rebels, sir. They're here, and they've brought a flag with them.....
 
2014-03-07 10:54:43 AM  
I'm not sure I understand what this is all about (seriously) but as long as we're waving flags we made up... why not?
img.fark.net

/big foot needs a little work
 
2014-03-07 12:18:53 PM  

AverageAmericanGuy: And with our destroyers entering the Black Sea, you'll soon be seeing some of these:


8/10

No wait, you're serious! XD
 
2014-03-07 12:20:52 PM  

timswar: Fark_Guy_Rob: I still don't understand why this is even a newsworthy thing.  It just doesn't make sense to me.   The citizens of Crimea *want* to be part of Russia.  Russia is happy to have them.  So, what's the big deal?

Because Crimea currently is not a part of Russia, and Russia has invaded a sovereign nation.

There are people in Quebec that don't want to be Canadian but you don't see France invading to try and help them break away.

/(Weak analogy, I'll try to do better next time)


The analogy would work better if the Canadian government were corrupt, and kept getting overthrown by fascists who wants to forbid people from speaking French.

If that were the case, I assume France would be more sympathetic to any claims Quebec would have.
 
2014-03-07 12:43:50 PM  

spawn73: The analogy would work better if the Canadian government were corrupt, and kept getting overthrown by fascists who wants to forbid people from speaking French.


Abasramsia no ne sdamsia, eh?
 
2014-03-07 01:11:15 PM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: I don't see how it's different than Texas wanting to leave Mexico and later join the US.  Or even the English colonies wanting to declare their independence.....I'm sure England's papers were declaring the French invasion and local insurgents were attempting to topple their government!  But yeah - it all just seems super hypocritical to me.

Anyway, Russia's actions don't strike me as any worse or different than the US's actions in a handful of countries.

Ukraine doesn't want to lose part of it's country because of $power and $wealth.  It's not about the people or what they want or what is good for them.  It's about the value of the land and the taxes those people generate, and the strategic value.  The EU would rather Russia not have more power (specifically gas) and has better relations with the Ukraine....so naturally, they side with the Ukraine.  Meanwhile, China, who is pals with Russia, agrees with Russia.

I dunno, it confuses me and it all seems silly.


Basically, you can look at Russia's actions in Crimea the same way that some people look at the Aztlan/Reconquista movement in the south west, except the Russians moving into Crimea actually appear to be succeeding. This is like if a member of La Raza was elected governor of Arizona and called a referendum to move the whole state into Mexico. Mexico rolls troops into Arizona the week before the election happens, then magically, the referendum passes. Probably because all of the illegals come out in droves while the natives are terrorized into staying home by the foreign military occupying their land. At the same time, the Mexican president is lining up troops on the border with Texas, calling it an "exercise" and saying things about the possibility of using military force inside the borders of a neighboring country.

That's exactly what's going on in Crimea right now, with the slight difference that you'd basically have to swap the Mexican army with the United States army to have the same threat level as Ukraine is facing.
 
2014-03-07 03:58:43 PM  
Thats nice and all but dosent Crimea get most of its water and power from Ukraine?
 
2014-03-07 09:03:35 PM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: I still don't understand why this is even a newsworthy thing.  It just doesn't make sense to me.   The citizens of Crimea *want* to be part of Russia.  Russia is happy to have them.  So, what's the big deal?


So far the citizens of Crimea haven't voted, so we don't know whether they want to be part of Russia or not.

However, approximately 55% - 60% of the population are ethnic Russians, they are the only ones likely to vote to join the Russian federation. Normally, constitutional change requires a 2/3rds majority, so this won't even be an issue, but if the referendum is constructed such that a simple majority is enough to allow the local government to declare themselves part of Russia, then there'll be problems.

The Ukrainian constitution requires that any border change will be voted on by the entire population of Ukraine, not just the area affected by the border change, so the 45% non-Russian Crimeans will not recognise the change. For the 12% that are Crimean Tartars, an ethnic group that were massacred by the Russians last time they were in charge, there is simply no way that they will accept Russian rule.

Civil war would be inevitable.

Here's the really nasty part:
Both Ukraine and Russia will claim that the war is occurring on their territory and both will send troops.

So then it would be war between Russia and Ukraine.

Ukraine agreed a defence pact with NATO in return for destroying its nuclear stockpile. A war in Crimea with Ukrainian troops being killed by Russians, would very likely trigger NATO involvement. The US fleet is already on route to the Black Sea just in case that happens.

Nothing that's happened so far needs to cause a war, you could make a fair argument that Russian troops are acting to prevent violence and protect civilian life, but an attempt to seize Crimea, even via a referendum, would start a chain of events that leads to war between NATO and Russia.

That's the big deal.
 
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