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(Slate)   Paul Ryan's claims that Federal assistant programs like welfare are a "poverty trap" are blatantly false, and they even fly in the face of the philosophy of his idol Ayn Rand, whom he forgets was also on food stamps   ( slate.com) divider line
    More: Dumbass, poverty traps, food stamps, welfare, philosophy, safety nets, obamacare  
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1628 clicks; posted to Politics » on 06 Mar 2014 at 8:55 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-06 08:37:20 AM  
I stopped at "Paul Ryan's claims" as it should have an obvious tag to match the blatantly false. I wouldn't believe him even if his anus was notorized as that's where he's been talking out of.
 
2014-03-06 08:47:45 AM  
Republican's shrug in the face of facts.
media.salon.com
 
2014-03-06 09:00:30 AM  
Paul Ryan's claims...are blatantly false.
 
2014-03-06 09:01:16 AM  
Paul Ryan is a stupid motherfarker; it's true. The Republicans have pinned him as their budget guru even though he's a dimwitted toolbag.

The Republican Party is nothing but a bunch of vapid idiots. I'll applaud when they finally fall apart.
 
2014-03-06 09:01:35 AM  

EyeballKid: Paul Ryan's claims...are blatantly false.


As expected by.. every critical thinker in the world.
 
2014-03-06 09:03:03 AM  
img.fark.net
 
2014-03-06 09:07:00 AM  
But you forget subby, she got on welfare, social security, and food stamps at the end of her life, and never got off until the day she died.
So you see, she did get trapped into poverty.  Soul crushing poverty which extended her life by years and prevented her from enduring the sublime joy of body crushing starvation.
 
2014-03-06 09:09:37 AM  

dr_blasto: Paul Ryan is a stupid motherfarker; it's true. The Republicans have pinned him as their budget guru even though he's a dimwitted toolbag.

The Republican Party is nothing but a bunch of vapid idiots. I'll applaud when they finally fall apart.


It's like some grand Dunning-Kruger experiment that the researchers forgot to stop. Or maybe their funding got cut and they had to release the subjects into the wild.

/Any day now, I expect to see some red-state politician putting out campaign stickers that just say "Gumt sux LOL."  They'll probably win.
 
2014-03-06 09:10:10 AM  
TV's Vinnie:

All those goddamned mooching high school kids reading her book at the library for free, no douubt.
 
2014-03-06 09:12:06 AM  

Karac: But you forget subby, she got on welfare, social security, and food stamps at the end of her life, and never got off until the day she died.
So you see, she did get trapped into poverty.  Soul crushing poverty which extended her life by years and prevented her from enduring the sublime joy of body crushing starvation.


It wasn't welfare that did that. It was her gawdawful hair.
 
2014-03-06 09:13:02 AM  
You can make your very own Paul Ryan with these simple items you can find around your house:
oi47.tinypic.com

pennpoliticalreview.org
 
2014-03-06 09:16:23 AM  

TV's Vinnie: [img.fark.net image 400x618]



pfff, no dumbhead, if it weren't for all that govt stuff we would have been living in a paradise and she wouldn't have needed social security.
 
2014-03-06 09:22:51 AM  

Karac: But you forget subby, she got on welfare, social security, and food stamps at the end of her life, and never got off until the day she died.
So you see, she did get trapped into poverty.  Soul crushing poverty which extended her life by years and prevented her from enduring the sublime joy of body crushing starvation.


She was far from poor, even at the time of her death. She just took it because:

"It is obvious, in such cases, that a man receives his own money which was taken from him by force, directly and specifically, without his consent, against his own choice. Those who advocated such laws are morally guilty, since they assumed the "right" to force employers and unwilling co-workers. But the victims, who opposed such laws, have a clear right to any refund of their own money-and they would not advance the cause of freedom if they left their money, unclaimed, for the benefit of the welfare-state administration."

In other words, don't hate the player.
 
2014-03-06 09:27:25 AM  
Paul Ryan's claims that anti-poverty programs have failed to stop poverty is like Bender b*tching "What's with you kids? Every other day it's food, food, food!".
 
2014-03-06 09:28:26 AM  

jigger: Karac: But you forget subby, she got on welfare, social security, and food stamps at the end of her life, and never got off until the day she died.
So you see, she did get trapped into poverty.  Soul crushing poverty which extended her life by years and prevented her from enduring the sublime joy of body crushing starvation.

She was far from poor, even at the time of her death. She just took it because:

"It is obvious, in such cases, that a man receives his own money which was taken from him by force, directly and specifically, without his consent, against his own choice. Those who advocated such laws are morally guilty, since they assumed the "right" to force employers and unwilling co-workers. But the victims, who opposed such laws, have a clear right to any refund of their own money-and they would not advance the cause of freedom if they left their money, unclaimed, for the benefit of the welfare-state administration."

In other words, don't hate the player.


That money wasn't taken by force. Taxes aren't theft.

They are perfectly capable of moving to a different country where they don't have to pay taxes into "welfare-state administration". Choosing to live in the US is also choosing to pay the taxes to support the social programs that help make the US one of the best nations on the planet.

She's a hypocrite.
 
2014-03-06 09:30:18 AM  
I thought Paul Ryan disavowed his Ayn Rand ties.  I can't keep up with this guy's lies.
 
2014-03-06 09:32:43 AM  
Oops it is not like the Republitards have ever knowingly, deliberately lied about economics before. Oh wait there was that whole Laffer Curve thing that they knew back in 1976 was wrong.

The real question is will the Republitards hammer home the Hammock theory so that every mouth breathing Republitard voting idiot will claim the Hammock theory as gospel truth, just like they did with the Laughter Curve from around 1980-2000.
 
2014-03-06 09:35:26 AM  

jigger: Karac: But you forget subby, she got on welfare, social security, and food stamps at the end of her life, and never got off until the day she died.
So you see, she did get trapped into poverty.  Soul crushing poverty which extended her life by years and prevented her from enduring the sublime joy of body crushing starvation.

She was far from poor, even at the time of her death. She just took it because:

"It is obvious, in such cases, that a man receives his own money which was taken from him by force, directly and specifically, without his consent, against his own choice. Those who advocated such laws are morally guilty, since they assumed the "right" to force employers and unwilling co-workers. But the victims, who opposed such laws, have a clear right to any refund of their own money-and they would not advance the cause of freedom if they left their money, unclaimed, for the benefit of the welfare-state administration."

In other words, don't hate the player.


So, what she's saying is that things like welfare, social safety nets, and other taxpayer-funded governmental activities are OK as long as you eventually receive the benefit of those programs?
 
2014-03-06 09:35:30 AM  
 
2014-03-06 09:36:48 AM  

Summoner101: I thought Paul Ryan disavowed his Ayn Rand ties.  I can't keep up with this guy's lies.


I can't keep up with which Paul said what derp.
 
2014-03-06 09:36:55 AM  
Paul Ryan is a hack.
 
2014-03-06 09:39:45 AM  

jigger: In other words, don't hate the player.


No, just hate the hypocrite...
 
2014-03-06 09:41:14 AM  

Cataholic: I'ma just leave this here.

http://www.economics21.org/commentary/war-paul-ryan


By Charles Blahous

For those not keeping score at home, Charles Blahous declared that ObamaCare would raise the deficit by several hundred billion dollars because it would extend the date by which the Medicare trust fund would become insolvent. Somehow, saving Medicare money costs the government money in his world.
 
2014-03-06 09:44:15 AM  

Karac: jigger: Karac: But you forget subby, she got on welfare, social security, and food stamps at the end of her life, and never got off until the day she died.
So you see, she did get trapped into poverty.  Soul crushing poverty which extended her life by years and prevented her from enduring the sublime joy of body crushing starvation.

She was far from poor, even at the time of her death. She just took it because:

"It is obvious, in such cases, that a man receives his own money which was taken from him by force, directly and specifically, without his consent, against his own choice. Those who advocated such laws are morally guilty, since they assumed the "right" to force employers and unwilling co-workers. But the victims, who opposed such laws, have a clear right to any refund of their own money-and they would not advance the cause of freedom if they left their money, unclaimed, for the benefit of the welfare-state administration."

In other words, don't hate the player.

So, what she's saying is that things like welfare, social safety nets, and other taxpayer-funded governmental activities are OK as long as you eventually receive the benefit of those programs?


No the programs as they are are wrong in that it uses force to make you invest but it is not wrong to withdraw what you were forced to put in.  Sounds like if SSI and the other social insurance programs were voluntarily financed Rand would be OK with it.
 
2014-03-06 09:44:40 AM  

jigger: Karac: But you forget subby, she got on welfare, social security, and food stamps at the end of her life, and never got off until the day she died.
So you see, she did get trapped into poverty.  Soul crushing poverty which extended her life by years and prevented her from enduring the sublime joy of body crushing starvation.

She was far from poor, even at the time of her death. She just took it because:

"It is obvious, in such cases, that a man receives his own money which was taken from him by force, directly and specifically, without his consent, against his own choice. Those who advocated such laws are morally guilty, since they assumed the "right" to force employers and unwilling co-workers. But the victims, who opposed such laws, have a clear right to any refund of their own money-and they would not advance the cause of freedom if they left their money, unclaimed, for the benefit of the welfare-state administration."

In other words, don't hate the player.


In other words, "libertarians" are hypocrites. Thanks for the explanation.
 
2014-03-06 09:46:26 AM  

Saiga410: Karac: jigger: Karac: But you forget subby, she got on welfare, social security, and food stamps at the end of her life, and never got off until the day she died.
So you see, she did get trapped into poverty.  Soul crushing poverty which extended her life by years and prevented her from enduring the sublime joy of body crushing starvation.

She was far from poor, even at the time of her death. She just took it because:

"It is obvious, in such cases, that a man receives his own money which was taken from him by force, directly and specifically, without his consent, against his own choice. Those who advocated such laws are morally guilty, since they assumed the "right" to force employers and unwilling co-workers. But the victims, who opposed such laws, have a clear right to any refund of their own money-and they would not advance the cause of freedom if they left their money, unclaimed, for the benefit of the welfare-state administration."

In other words, don't hate the player.

So, what she's saying is that things like welfare, social safety nets, and other taxpayer-funded governmental activities are OK as long as you eventually receive the benefit of those programs?

No the programs as they are are wrong in that it uses force to make you invest but it is not wrong to withdraw what you were forced to put in.  Sounds like if SSI and the other social insurance programs were voluntarily financed Rand would be OK with it.


Naturally - selfish hypocrites always want to take all they can from society, while giving as little as possible back.
 
2014-03-06 09:48:33 AM  

Saiga410: No the programs as they are are wrong in that it uses force to make you invest but it is not wrong to withdraw what you were forced to put in. Sounds like if SSI and the other social insurance programs were voluntarily financed Rand would be OK with it.


Ah, OK.  My bad.

So what she's really saying is that things like schools, roads, social safety nets, police, fire departments, regulations ensuring clean(er) air and water, national defense, copyright laws so someone can't sell the books you wrote without giving you a cut, the court system to get the money back from them if they do, and every other thing government does should be voluntarily funded - which given human nature, means not at all.

So, basically, she wanted no government at all.  Leading us back to the tired old refrain of "Well, why didn't she just move to Somalia?"
 
2014-03-06 09:48:39 AM  
Why do we have community fireman services.  This is just incentivizing people letting their homes catch on fire.
 
2014-03-06 09:50:02 AM  

Cataholic: I'ma just leave this here.

http://www.economics21.org/commentary/war-paul-ryan


"For perspective, consider that the Ryan report has 683 footnotes citing an untold number of experts. "

"untold number", eh? That's some fine research there, Lou.
 
2014-03-06 09:52:21 AM  

Karac: Saiga410: No the programs as they are are wrong in that it uses force to make you invest but it is not wrong to withdraw what you were forced to put in. Sounds like if SSI and the other social insurance programs were voluntarily financed Rand would be OK with it.

Ah, OK.  My bad.

So what she's really saying is that things like schools, roads, social safety nets, police, fire departments, regulations ensuring clean(er) air and water, national defense, copyright laws so someone can't sell the books you wrote without giving you a cut, the court system to get the money back from them if they do, and every other thing government does should be voluntarily funded - which given human nature, means not at all.

So, basically, she wanted no government at all.  Leading us back to the tired old refrain of "Well, why didn't she just move to Somalia?"



Actually the US tried it that way. It only took the country 5 years to realize the Randian paradise under the Article of Confederation was no way to run a country.
 
2014-03-06 09:53:57 AM  

keylock71: jigger: In other words, don't hate the player.

No, just hate the hypocrite...


I'm actually not sure if this is hypocrisy. It's consistent with her greedy shortsighted asshole philosophy of take everything you can for yourself and screw anyone who isn't you.
 
2014-03-06 09:56:19 AM  

max_pooper: Karac: Saiga410: No the programs as they are are wrong in that it uses force to make you invest but it is not wrong to withdraw what you were forced to put in. Sounds like if SSI and the other social insurance programs were voluntarily financed Rand would be OK with it.

Ah, OK.  My bad.

So what she's really saying is that things like schools, roads, social safety nets, police, fire departments, regulations ensuring clean(er) air and water, national defense, copyright laws so someone can't sell the books you wrote without giving you a cut, the court system to get the money back from them if they do, and every other thing government does should be voluntarily funded - which given human nature, means not at all.

So, basically, she wanted no government at all.  Leading us back to the tired old refrain of "Well, why didn't she just move to Somalia?"


Actually the US tried it that way. It only took the country 5 years to realize the Randian paradise under the Article of Confederation was no way to run a country.


Objectivism is autism, expressed as an existential philosopghy.
Libertarianism is autism expressed as a political philosophy.
 
2014-03-06 09:57:00 AM  
When i was on unemployment and food stamps, no one helped me out!
 
2014-03-06 09:57:42 AM  
Ryan just needs a "What me worry" caption under his picture.
 
2014-03-06 09:57:54 AM  

PanicMan: keylock71: jigger: In other words, don't hate the player.

No, just hate the hypocrite...

I'm actually not sure if this is hypocrisy. It's consistent with her greedy shortsighted asshole philosophy of take everything you can for yourself and screw anyone who isn't you.



I'm pretty sure "no social security for you but all that I can get for me" is dictionary definition of hypocrisy.
 
2014-03-06 09:59:30 AM  

PanicMan: keylock71: jigger: In other words, don't hate the player.

No, just hate the hypocrite...

I'm actually not sure if this is hypocrisy. It's consistent with her greedy shortsighted asshole philosophy of take everything you can for yourself and screw anyone who isn't you.


That's the actual philosophy - you are supposed to contribute as little to society as possible (don't "feed the beast") and take as many resources from it as possible (starve the beast). That is the actual. explicit, justified philosophy.
 
2014-03-06 10:02:09 AM  

dr_blasto: Paul Ryan is a stupid motherfarker; it's true. The Republicans have pinned him as their budget guru even though he's a dimwitted toolbag.

The Republican Party is nothing but a bunch of vapid idiots. I'll applaud when they finally fall apart.


Nah, he's not dumb.  He's a relatively intelligent guy.  he's smart enough to put together budgets with the appearance of balance and responsibility.

The problem is that the media aren't intelligent enough to actually analyize his figures and point out that they're really nothing more than a clever spin job.

When Ryan says we'll have a debt crisis if we don't make some sort of changes, he's right.  (Though it's an easy point.)  When he puts forth a budget resolution leading to balance, he's right - the numbers work.  However the ability to put those policies into practice, such as reducing all discretionary spending to a level lower than the current defense level, is virtually impossible.  Unfortunately, the media looks at the top-line balancing numbers and claims he's serious, even if you disagree with his particular solutions, rather than seeing it as spin, which is all it largely is.
 
2014-03-06 10:02:29 AM  

Karac: But you forget subby, she got on welfare, social security, and food stamps at the end of her life, and never got off until the day she died.
So you see, she did get trapped into poverty.  Soul crushing poverty which extended her life by years and prevented her from enduring the sublime joy of body crushing starvation.


but she was born into a rich family and got lots of help from relatives when she moved to the states. they put her through school etc..she's no self made rugged individualist.
 
2014-03-06 10:02:48 AM  

max_pooper: PanicMan: keylock71: jigger: In other words, don't hate the player.

No, just hate the hypocrite...

I'm actually not sure if this is hypocrisy. It's consistent with her greedy shortsighted asshole philosophy of take everything you can for yourself and screw anyone who isn't you.


I'm pretty sure "no social security for you but all that I can get for me" is dictionary definition of hypocrisy.


When it is your stated philosophical goal to nurture the precious "self" at the expense of all other things, and, whenever possible, to harm the evil "collective" - what degree of personal selfishness can be hypocritical. By adopting an animal's value system, a sociopath can avoid all that heavy intellectual lifting.
 
2014-03-06 10:03:38 AM  
I don't doubt that Ryan's conclusions regarding the incentive to work are incorrect.  But that article was super confusing and did not leave me feeling like I knew more about the topic than when I started.  I am sure that I know less than Paul Ryan on this matter, and I am not sure that the author of this article knows more.
 
2014-03-06 10:05:21 AM  

Serious Black: Cataholic: I'ma just leave this here.

http://www.economics21.org/commentary/war-paul-ryan

By Charles Blahous

For those not keeping score at home, Charles Blahous declared that ObamaCare would raise the deficit by several hundred billion dollars because it would extend the date by which the Medicare trust fund would become insolvent. Somehow, saving Medicare money costs the government money in his world.


You're a better man than I am. I stopped reading at "Cataholic."
 
2014-03-06 10:05:50 AM  

ToastmasterGeneral: When he puts forth a budget resolution leading to balance, he's right - the numbers work.


No they do not.
 
2014-03-06 10:06:26 AM  
www.bitlogic.com
 
2014-03-06 10:06:57 AM  
Vote against minimum wage increase

Vote to eliminate billions in social services

Claim poor are abusing the system.

Makes sense...


Why are these people so he'll bent on making the poor poorer?
 
2014-03-06 10:09:31 AM  

nyseattitude: Vote against minimum wage increase

Vote to eliminate billions in social services

Claim poor are abusing the system.

Makes sense...


Why are these people so he'll bent on making the poor poorer?


because their puppet masters want that money for themselves.
 
2014-03-06 10:12:22 AM  
otherinvolvesorcs.jpg
 
2014-03-06 10:15:31 AM  
Didn't we have this thread earlier this week?

Whatever. Paul Ryan's so nice, he should be lambasted twice. Or however many times as it takes. I'm not picky.
 
2014-03-06 10:16:06 AM  
Forgets and chooses not to believe are different things.
 
2014-03-06 10:18:37 AM  

Hobodeluxe: nyseattitude: Vote against minimum wage increase

Vote to eliminate billions in social services

Claim poor are abusing the system.

Makes sense...


Why are these people so he'll bent on making the poor poorer?

because their puppet masters want that money for themselves.


What will they do when they figure out you can't get blood from a turnip? Or when the masses figure out who is bleeding them dry and where these people live. It shouldn't have been occupy Wall Street; it should have been occupy Connecticut, or occupy Astor street.
 
2014-03-06 10:20:03 AM  

zeroman987: Hobodeluxe: nyseattitude: Vote against minimum wage increase

Vote to eliminate billions in social services

Claim poor are abusing the system.

Makes sense...


Why are these people so he'll bent on making the poor poorer?

because their puppet masters want that money for themselves.

What will they do when they figure out you can't get blood from a turnip? Or when the masses figure out who is bleeding them dry and where these people live. It shouldn't have been occupy Wall Street; it should have been occupy Connecticut, or occupy Astor street.


You cannot get blood from a turnip.  But you can get very cheap labor.
 
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