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(CNBC)   Facebook and Instagram to crack down on gun sales. In related news, people use Facebook and Instagram to sell guns   (cnbc.com) divider line 76
    More: Scary, New York State Attorney General, for sale by owner  
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1095 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Mar 2014 at 6:44 AM (25 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



76 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-03-06 12:07:57 AM
Pants. completely. shat. Levis fudged. Wranglers roped. Dockers dookied. Dungarees dungarooed.
 
2014-03-06 12:31:27 AM
Whatever happened to Craigslist?
 
2014-03-06 01:23:22 AM

SilentStrider: Whatever happened to Craigslist?


You mean CraigNSAlist?

Better to stick with FaceBook.. OMG
 
2014-03-06 01:31:34 AM

SilentStrider: Whatever happened to Craigslist?


Those hippies don't allow gun sales, but there is an armslist.com and a subreddit which both allow private party sales as long as they are in accordance with state and federal law.
 
2014-03-06 03:21:14 AM
Help help, they are taking away my Second Amendment rights and oppressing me. Help help. Waah.
 
2014-03-06 03:56:13 AM

SilentStrider: Whatever happened to Craigslist?


Guns N' Roses?
 
2014-03-06 04:12:34 AM

Kittypie070: Help help, they are taking away my Second Amendment rights and oppressing me. Help help. Waah.


I don't know that anyone is actually whining about that, but since there is no avenue for private buyers and sellers to freely access the NICS hotline, I'm not going to do much whining about private sales occurring as they do now.
 
2014-03-06 04:48:04 AM
The only thing I see being offered for sale on Facebook are old CRT TVs that people think are still worth something when even Goodwill won't take them anymore.

Yes, someone's aunt, that 10-year-old 13" Goldstar "with great color" is definitely going to get $50, and "once onea them Oriental collectors" learns about your Beanie Baby collection, your Atlantic City excursions will be on the LUXURY bus!
 
2014-03-06 06:52:05 AM
We can still sell guns on Fark, right?
 
2014-03-06 06:52:16 AM
I don't know about you, but I use my Facebook account as my own personal gun show *flexes*

/Sun's out? Guns out!
//Not for another month or two with this winter
 
2014-03-06 06:53:41 AM

Kittypie070: Help help, they are taking away my Second Amendment rights and oppressing me. Help help. Waah.


No one cares.
 
2014-03-06 06:55:05 AM

fusillade762: We can still sell guns on Fark, right?


Guns? Yes. Gnus? No.

/It's not gnus, it's Fark.com
 
2014-03-06 07:06:49 AM
Ebay, craigslist went through this. Any online venture providing an interface for people to connect will have to deal with it. Newsflash...people buy and sell guns and they're not going to stop.

Zuckerberg didn't see this coming?
 
2014-03-06 07:13:55 AM
Facebook has every right to decline to facilitate private firearms sales (the "loophole"). Outrage: 0.
 
2014-03-06 07:15:49 AM
I can't buy guns, but I can still meet up with prostitutes there, right?
 
2014-03-06 07:20:46 AM

fusillade762: We can still sell guns on Fark, right?


A Fark Swap Meet might be all kinds of awesome.
 
2014-03-06 07:21:33 AM

Alien Robot: I can't buy guns, but I can still meet up with prostitutes there, right?


Not on Facebook. You have to go to backpages for that.
 
2014-03-06 07:21:59 AM
"We will not permit people to post offers to sell regulated items that indicate a willingness to evade or help others evade the law,'' Facebook said.

Except that it isn't against the law to private sell a gun without a background check

/Although I'd want to make damn sure who I am selling a gun to. I'm getting a copy of your driver's licence and a signed statement that says "I am not a felon". Last thing I need is for a gun, registered to me, to wind up next to a dead hooker.

Police: Hey, yeah, so we found your gun next to a bullet ridden hooker.
Me: If she got rid of all ther bullets, what's the problem?
Police: No, it means she's full of bullets.
Me: Wow, that doesn't mean what I thought it ment.
Police: Thats...I'm not here to teach you English, I'm here because your gun was used in a murder!
Me: Oh....I sold that gun.
Police: To whom?
Me: Uh.....some guy? I think he said his name was Bill. Or Juaqiuem. Or something like that. He drives some sort of car if that helps.
Police: You're gonna need to come with me.
Me: Can I play with the siren?
Police: ....sure, why not?
 
2014-03-06 07:27:19 AM
I've bought a couple of guns of Gunbroker.com. But I still had to go though a background check and fill out a 4473. If you ship to another state, you've got to go through a dealer that has a FFL.
 
2014-03-06 07:29:32 AM
The only complaint I've seen about this is that they appear to have only consulted with anti-gun groups before making the new rules.

I see the "gun show loophole" has now become the "private sale loophole".
 
2014-03-06 07:29:47 AM
MythDragon:

/Although I'd want to make damn sure who I am selling a gun to. I'm getting a copy of your driver's licence and a signed statement that says "I am not a felon". Last thing I need is for a gun, registered to me, to wind up next to a dead hooker.

Three words:

Bill of Sale.
 
2014-03-06 07:32:57 AM
I wish I knew of this beforehand. I'm trying to get rid of an extra shotgun I don't use anymore. Legitimately, so don't ask!
 
2014-03-06 07:33:39 AM
Gunbroker.com.

/'Nuff said
 
2014-03-06 07:34:25 AM
Now what will the Mexican drug lords do?
 
2014-03-06 07:36:05 AM
Can Facebook get me the gun of Rambo?
 
2014-03-06 07:39:41 AM
I have seen both sites sell guns. I live in a rural area of Pennsylvania where this kind of thing is more common. I have looked on there to buy a handgun but I have to get the permit to carry one first. Better get off my butt and do that before they are banned completely.
 
2014-03-06 07:40:54 AM
Actually, they didn't change their policies very much at all.  Basically, all they are doing is saying "Hey follow the applicable laws".  That's pretty much it.
 
2014-03-06 07:42:15 AM

Clint_Torres: I wish I knew of this beforehand. I'm trying to get rid of an extra shotgun I don't use anymore. Legitimately, so don't ask!


A lot of local areas have "garage sale" Facebook pages where you can post items you wish to sell if you are a member of the group.
 
2014-03-06 07:43:22 AM
Well thank goodness everyone can still have a pic of their 3 year old with an AK-47.  Or can they?
 
2014-03-06 07:45:58 AM
boinkingbill

Well thank goodness everyone can still have a pic of their 3 year old with an AK-47. Or can they?

As long as it's not a pic of you using Facebook to set up the sale of it to said three year-old...
 
2014-03-06 07:48:57 AM
Most people ask for a ccw.
 
2014-03-06 07:50:00 AM
 
2014-03-06 07:53:38 AM
Does anyone know if the language of the law that allows people in Colorado to shoot down drones is restricted to government drones?  or can you shoot down anyone's RC perv cam cause someone lost one.  So many new firearms laws I lost track.


If there is anything you can do to keep the asteroids from missing the planet....step up.
 
2014-03-06 07:55:05 AM
In Indiana its legal to do private sales without background checks.

Craigslist is still used for guns, sort of. I see plenty of things like motorcycles or car parts for sale or trade and they usually want guns for the trade. I know someone that traded some guns for a motorcycle using craigslist.
 
2014-03-06 07:58:21 AM

Facetious_Speciest: Facebook has every right to decline to facilitate private firearms sales (the "loophole"). Outrage: 0.


Except they aren't even doing that.   They're just saying "Hey, if someone reports this, we'll put in a pop-up that says 'Follow the law'":

Today, we are introducing a series of new educational and enforcement efforts for people discussing the private sale of regulated items:

Any time we receive a report on Facebook about a post promoting the private sale of a commonly regulated item, we will send a message to that person reminding him or her to comply with relevant laws and regulations. We will also limit access to that post to people over the age of 18.

We will require Pages that are primarily used by people to promote the private sale of commonly regulated goods or services to include language that clearly reminds people of the importance of understanding and complying with relevant laws and regulations, and limit access to people over the age of 18 or older if required by applicable law.

We will provide special in-app education on Instagram for those who search for sales or promotions of firearms.

We will not permit people to post offers to sell regulated items that indicate a willingness to evade or help others evade the law. For example, private sellers of firearms in the U.S. will not be permitted to specify "no background check required," nor can they offer to transact across state lines without a licensed firearms dealer.


Basically, it doesn't do very much.  Plus, if I decide to sell, say, a modern muzzleloader, or a "modern" gun that because of it's age isn't legally a firearm, I can indeed still say "no background check required" because they are not regulated items.

Plus, I can easily imply that I'm selling a modern gun without a background check (which isn't required federally for private transactions between residents of the same state) by simply saying "Selling my personal firearm.  I am not an FFL".   Non-FFLs don't have access to NICS anyway.

In the end, this doesn't really *DO* anything.  You can still advertise your guns for sale on Facebook.  You can even imply that no background check is needed, though you can't expressly say it.

This is more of a stinging rebuke of groups like MAIG, dressed up as a "win".  Facebook doesn't block the sales at all, and just adds wording that says "Hey, follow the applicable laws" without any real enforcement mechanism.
 
2014-03-06 08:01:32 AM
dittybopper

Except they aren't even doing that.

Yeah, I just read the statement from Facebook. Weird how it's being reported the way it is.
 
2014-03-06 08:06:23 AM

Nuclear Monk: fusillade762: We can still sell guns on Fark, right?

A Fark Swap Meet might be all kinds of awesome.


I am down for this -
 
2014-03-06 08:07:22 AM

Facetious_Speciest: dittybopper

Except they aren't even doing that.

Yeah, I just read the statement from Facebook. Weird how it's being reported the way it is.


You're surprised that reporters would shill for anti-gun groups?  Really?
 
2014-03-06 08:08:34 AM

kdawg7736: I have seen both sites sell guns. I live in a rural area of Pennsylvania where this kind of thing is more common. I have looked on there to buy a handgun but I have to get the permit to carry one first. Better get off my butt and do that before they are banned completely.


I don't know where you live, but in Montgomery County it takes only the time to drive by your local police station, sit for five minutes, drive to Norristown, and hang out for twenty minutes. Make sure to bring cash or a check for the fee.

I live in Cheltenham Township, so that's my experience in pretty much the most Democrat-run Donkeyland outside of Massachusetts.
 
2014-03-06 08:10:58 AM
State_College_Arsonist

You're surprised that reporters would shill for anti-gun groups? Really?

Sometimes.

/shrug
 
2014-03-06 08:14:14 AM
Meh, what are they gonna do? Kick you off of Facebook, and drop another 10 points in the stock market? Anyway; anybody that sells a gun via Facebook is an idiot. You'd do so much better with gunbroker.
 
2014-03-06 08:21:25 AM

Deep Contact: Now what will the Mexican drug lords do?




They do not need Facebook and Instagram they have the US government.


sadhillnews.com
 
2014-03-06 08:22:21 AM

violentsalvation: SilentStrider: Whatever happened to Craigslist?

Those hippies don't allow gun sales, but there is an armslist.com and a subreddit which both allow private party sales as long as they are in accordance with state and federal law.


There is also GunBroker.com which is eBay for guns.
 
2014-03-06 08:23:31 AM

Kittypie070: Help help, they are taking away my Second Amendment rights and oppressing me. Help help. Waah.


You sound more like a pro-abortionist upset she can not get a tax payer funded abortion at the corner convenience store.
 
2014-03-06 08:30:29 AM
I'm on a few gun pages on facebook, even there any sales go though a FFL.

This is sort of the same theory as sales at gun shows, that everyone seems to think are all under the table. Go check one out, if you buy any firearm inside the show you get a background check and the sale is processed though a FFL. There are sales in the parking lot sometimes but those are frowned upon as well as the parking lot is always watched for that sort of thing.

so in closing, blow it out your arse Moms demand action.

signed sincerely, a pro gun liberal.
 
2014-03-06 08:35:22 AM

SpectroBoy: violentsalvation: SilentStrider: Whatever happened to Craigslist?

Those hippies don't allow gun sales, but there is an armslist.com and a subreddit which both allow private party sales as long as they are in accordance with state and federal law.

There is also GunBroker.com which is eBay for guns.


Got my amazing numbers matching K98 via Gunbroker. Through a dealer transfer of course.
 
2014-03-06 08:40:17 AM
static.rogerebert.com

"Like" me on fecebook.
 
2014-03-06 08:42:13 AM

YixilTesiphon: kdawg7736: I have seen both sites sell guns. I live in a rural area of Pennsylvania where this kind of thing is more common. I have looked on there to buy a handgun but I have to get the permit to carry one first. Better get off my butt and do that before they are banned completely.

I don't know where you live, but in Montgomery County it takes only the time to drive by your local police station, sit for five minutes, drive to Norristown, and hang out for twenty minutes. Make sure to bring cash or a check for the fee.

I live in Cheltenham Township, so that's my experience in pretty much the most Democrat-run Donkeyland outside of Massachusetts.


Perry County (Southcentral PA) here, pretty rural area where I am at. It is the most Republican-run Elephantland outside of Texas or so it seems. Haven't been near Philly since my brother attended West Chester, but I am sure things haven't changed much in two years.
 
2014-03-06 08:42:26 AM
it's interesting. the banning of the sale of the only good (outside of the 21st amendment) guaranteed by the US Constitution.
 
2014-03-06 08:49:16 AM
All this bullshiat would be moot if ATF would allow private citizens to access NICS via a phone number or web portal to perform voluntary background checks for private sales.

Would everybody doing a private sale use it?  No.  Would a huge percentage use it?  Absolutely.

It would be low or no cost and would accomplish the PUBLIC goal of performing more background checks than already are performed - I would bet the monthly check numbers would be staggering.  So the absence of a proposal to this end is, in my opinion, very telling.
 
2014-03-06 08:50:02 AM

oxnard_montalvo: it's interesting. the banning of the sale of the only good (outside of the 21st amendment) guaranteed by the US Constitution.


Well sort of.  The 21st only repealed the Federal  ban  on booze.  States are still free to do what they want with regards to regulating it.

Long for the good old days when it took a Constitutional Amendment for the Federal government to obtain such power.  Now they just pass a law and creatively reinterpret the constitution to fit the powers they want have.
 
2014-03-06 08:50:14 AM

kdawg7736: I have seen both sites sell guns. I live in a rural area of Pennsylvania where this kind of thing is more common.


I live in Missouri and frequent the area swap shop groups on FB. Guns will pop up occasionally and they are very quick sales.
 
2014-03-06 08:51:05 AM

dittybopper: Clint_Torres: I wish I knew of this beforehand. I'm trying to get rid of an extra shotgun I don't use anymore. Legitimately, so don't ask!

A lot of local areas have "garage sale" Facebook pages where you can post items you wish to sell if you are a member of the group.


A local group around here does that. Thing is... we live in a tri-state area. Not that for a SECOND I would dream any laws are broken. Noooooo.
 
2014-03-06 08:54:03 AM
for folks in the republic, this is a good one:

http://texasguntrader.com/
 
2014-03-06 09:03:41 AM

hasty ambush: Deep Contact: Now what will the Mexican drug lords do?

They do not need Facebook and Instagram they have the US government.


[sadhillnews.com image 512x374]



www.strangepolitics.com
 
2014-03-06 09:04:42 AM

Sarien: MythDragon:

/Although I'd want to make damn sure who I am selling a gun to. I'm getting a copy of your driver's licence and a signed statement that says "I am not a felon". Last thing I need is for a gun, registered to me, to wind up next to a dead hooker.

Three words:

Bill of Sale.


Three better words:  Don't Farkin' Register.
 
2014-03-06 09:06:42 AM
FTFA: "Facebook said the policy change was made in consultation with a number of individuals and organizations, including New York state Attorney General Attorney Eric Schneiderman, Mayors Against Illegal Guns, Sandy Hook Promise and Moms Demand Action..."

Well, glad they listened to both sides before acting...
 
2014-03-06 09:11:14 AM

Click Click D'oh: FTFA: "Facebook said the policy change was made in consultation with a number of individuals and organizations, including New York state Attorney General Attorney Eric Schneiderman, Mayors Against Illegal Guns, Sandy Hook Promise and Moms Demand Action..."

Well, glad they listened to both sides before acting...


Well, they really didn't do very much.  They know what would happen if they had given MAIG and MDA what they really wanted.

Loss of millions of people on Facebook in the US.  And that is lost advertising revenue for them.
 
2014-03-06 09:17:37 AM

State_College_Arsonist: Facetious_Speciest: dittybopper

Except they aren't even doing that.

Yeah, I just read the statement from Facebook. Weird how it's being reported the way it is.

You're surprised that reporters would shill for anti-gun groups?  Really?


You'd be surprised at how often so-called "news reports" aren't actually the result of news, but are just basically regurgitations of press releases from advocacy organizations.
 
2014-03-06 09:27:48 AM

fusillade762: We can still sell guns on Fark, right?


As long as it is either an AK47 or a Glock.
 
2014-03-06 09:35:39 AM
Not sure if other states do this, but where I live a person who sells a gun via "private sale" just needs to get a copy of the buyers drivers license.  Once the sale is complete they can call the state police and give them the buyers information and type of gun transferred.  The cops will run the buyers information and - if it turns out they ARE a felon - go pick up the gun.

One of the troopers I shoot with says it is very rare they actually have to go do this though.
 
2014-03-06 09:55:45 AM

tedthebellhopp: I'm on a few gun pages on facebook, even there any sales go though a FFL.

This is sort of the same theory as sales at gun shows, that everyone seems to think are all under the table. Go check one out, if you buy any firearm inside the show you get a background check and the sale is processed though a FFL. There are sales in the parking lot sometimes but those are frowned upon as well as the parking lot is always watched for that sort of thing.

so in closing, blow it out your arse Moms demand action.

signed sincerely, a pro gun liberal.


Shhhhh...they think that they've done something, much like with Starbucks.  The more pretend victories they have, the better.
 
2014-03-06 10:19:24 AM

TheYeti: Shhhhh...they think that they've done something, much like with Starbucks.  The more pretend victories they have, the better.


Nah, even the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence thinks it's bullshiat that doesn't do anything:

"This new policy is not a victory because Facebook continues to make it too easy for dangerous people to evade a background check when buying guns. A mere warning to follow the law and community-based reporting will not do enough to prevent unchecked gun sales to dangerous people," says Daniel Gross, President of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. "As we and thousands of others have told Facebook, unlicensed gun sales have no place on the social network. Facebook should prohibit all posts that advertise the unlicensed sale or transfer of firearms in the United States. Sadly, it's only a matter of time before a gun purchased through Facebook without a background check is used in a terrible tragedy. "
 
2014-03-06 10:21:33 AM

Kittypie070: Help help, they are taking away my Second Amendment rights and oppressing me. Help help. Waah.


Nope. I'm a member of a Facebook gun swap group for my local area. People post guns or other items that they want to sell or trade, and if you're interested you can contact them directly and arrange the deal. The guy who runs the group made a post yesterday about Facebook's new policy, and he said that it won't affect the group. He apparently has spoken to someone at Facebook about it, and as long as everything is being done legally, it's not a problem. They're just trying to cover their own asses and make sure that they aren't breaking any laws. As long as you play by the rules, you can still do your gun swap. It's a non-issue, at least for our group.
 
2014-03-06 12:42:37 PM
People sure do. A good friend of mine(who happens to have a tv show about guns) does sell on FB. Mostly to his real friends and not gaggle of followers. I bought a rifle from another friend who advertised it on his FB page.

It happens..., and all necessary legal paperwork is done. Which in this case, being Texas means I give him cash, he gives me a gun, we shake hands and go about our lawful business :D
 
2014-03-06 01:24:16 PM

FuzedBox: Gunbroker.com. Overpricedfuddguns.com

/'Nuff said


FTFY....
 
2014-03-06 02:34:17 PM
Who the hell sells guns?  Disgruntled ex-wives is who.  Nobody else in their right mind ever gives up a firearm once purchased
 
2014-03-06 02:55:47 PM

Smeggy Smurf: Who the hell sells guns?  Disgruntled ex-wives is who.  Nobody else in their right mind ever gives up a firearm once purchased


Aside from dealers, or collectors who like to trade surplus inventory, you make a good point.

Had a woman contact me wanting to sell off 5 handguns.  Turned out to be the exact scenario you describe (disgruntled ex wife).  Normally I wouldn't have touched them, but the husband was at that very moment cooling his heels in prison for felony DV so I took them off her hands.

Dude had horrific taste.  He should have gotten an extra year for "blinging out" a stainless Colt Python with pearl-handled grips and gold accents...
 
2014-03-06 03:29:02 PM

Smeggy Smurf: Who the hell sells guns?  Disgruntled ex-wives is who.  Nobody else in their right mind ever gives up a firearm once purchased


Not true.

I've sold guns when I needed the cash more than I needed the gun.

I've never been actually gunless, it's true, since I was first given a .22 rifle back 35 years ago (still have that one!), but the number of guns in my collection have ebbed and flowed with financial concerns.
 
2014-03-06 04:36:32 PM

tedthebellhopp: I'm on a few gun pages on facebook, even there any sales go though a FFL.

This is sort of the same theory as sales at gun shows, that everyone seems to think are all under the table. Go check one out, if you buy any firearm inside the show you get a background check and the sale is processed though a FFL. There are sales in the parking lot sometimes but those are frowned upon as well as the parking lot is always watched for that sort of thing.

so in closing, blow it out your arse Moms demand action.

signed sincerely, a pro gun liberal.


Maybe where you are, but in Fl you can walk into a gun show with cash and walk out with a gun. Maybe they process you after the fact but it seems unlikely.
 
2014-03-06 06:51:43 PM
A better headline might be, "Facebook gives anti-gun movement the brush-off".  Basically said absolutely nothing substantive, which is the correct business decision.
 
2014-03-06 10:42:26 PM
Shadowe

Maybe where you are, but in Fl you can walk into a gun show with cash and walk out with a gun. Maybe they process you after the fact but it seems unlikely.

This is the way it works in the vast majority of American states, whether at a gun show or not. Licensed dealers are supposed to run a background check, but private individuals sell firearms to each other without one.
 
2014-03-06 11:06:20 PM

Shadowe: Maybe where you are, but in Fl you can walk into a gun show with cash and walk out with a gun. Maybe they process you after the fact but it seems unlikely.


I don't know about Florida, but in Missouri most gun shows are populated in large part by dealers and other sellers (gun paraphernalia rather than firearms).  To buy from a dealer, you'll go through a background check or you'll get nothing; they're not going to risk their FFL just to sell to someone at a gun show.

If you buy from an individual person, yeah, you could do that, but that's legally equivalent to talking to a guy at the bar, or at the range, and agreeing to make a private sale of firearms (which anyone worth his salt does only after asking to see Id to ensure it's in-state).
 
2014-03-06 11:18:25 PM

Skyd1v: Not sure if other states do this, but where I live a person who sells a gun via "private sale" just needs to get a copy of the buyers drivers license.  Once the sale is complete they can call the state police and give them the buyers information and type of gun transferred.  The cops will run the buyers information and - if it turns out they ARE a felon - go pick up the gun.

One of the troopers I shoot with says it is very rare they actually have to go do this though.


Really?   That's a weird system, I've never encountered a state with anything like that.  Majority of the country, private sales are private.  Generally people ask to see a carry license, but few states make that mandatory and even fewer give private individuals a way to verify the license is still valid.

At least with checking after the fact, gives the state troopers an incentive to make the arrest for felon-in-possesion.  The Federal NICS check has denied a million transactions since it was instituted, and prosecuted less than 1% of those cases.


CoolHandLucas: All this bullshiat would be moot if ATF would allow private citizens to access NICS via a phone number or web portal to perform voluntary background checks for private sales.

Would everybody doing a private sale use it?  No.  Would a huge percentage use it?  Absolutely.

It would be low or no cost and would accomplish the PUBLIC goal of performing more background checks than already are performed - I would bet the monthly check numbers would be staggering.  So the absence of a proposal to this end is, in my opinion, very telling.


Sure, but then there are folk who will abuse NICS, use it to check out prospective employees, tenants, daughter's boyfriends, etc.   If the gov't says somebody isn't a suitable person to buy a firearm, they aren't suitable to rent my apartment or date my daughter.

/ Not sure that is abuse.
 
2014-03-07 07:31:40 AM
This is pretty much the some total of Facebook's approach:

blog.robballen.com
 
2014-03-07 07:32:21 AM
Or the sum total, even.
 
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