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(The Daily Beast)   While the GOP is busy criticizing Obama's response to the Ukrainian crisis, Putin is blinking so much his eyes are sending SOS in Morse code   (thedailybeast.com) divider line 8
    More: Interesting, GOP, Ukrainian, Vladimir Putin, Obama, President Viktor Yanukovych, Russian President Vladimir Putin, laboratory rats  
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4811 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Mar 2014 at 9:16 AM (41 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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2014-03-05 10:10:30 AM  
2 votes:

mongbiohazard: Infernalist: Oblio13: Infernalist: ...  NATO has said for many years that membership for Ukraine is there for the taking and they only need to ask for it.

Russia might well keep the Crimean territory, but they've driven Ukraine straight into the arms of NATO and there's no telling how many other Eastern European nations are going to follow Ukraine's lead.

Thanks to Putin, NATO troops are going to be sitting right on the Russian border.

NATO doesn't want Ukraine as a member because they'd be obligated to defend it in the event of something, well, exactly like this. Even George Bush backed off of inviting Ukraine to join.

NATO troops will indeed be sitting right on the Russian border, but the Russian border will be along Poland and the Baltic states.

Reality thinks you're an idiot.  It's a well-known documented reality that NATO has repeatedly extended the offer of membership to Ukraine.  They've only refused up to now because of the pro-Russian government that was in place.  That's changed and I can guarantee that Ukraine will be a member of NATO before the end of the year.  To say nothing of the other Eastern European countries that have, until now, felt secure that Russia wasn't the aggressive Empire that it was back in the USSR days.

So, yeah, Russia might get to keep the Crimean region under its thumb, but they're going to pay heavily for it with a newly hostile EU and Eastern Europe.  They've already lost billions and you can be sure that no one with any money is going to want to invest in an unstable aggressive Russia.

I would agree that this will drive Ukraine and other former Soviet satellite states in to the arms of the west and NATO. I would also agree that this will have a negative effect on investment and trade with Russia... I wouldn't, however, say that no one will invest or trade with them... greed has little memory.


Oh?  Cuba wonders if you've been paying attention.  Iran would also disagree with you.  NK would speak up but it's currently shooting more missiles at the water and boiling up some rock stew.

Would sanctions have that sort of impact on Russia?  Nope.  But, it would hurt.  They've lose billions in the last few days, roughly $58 billion, and sanctions haven't even been put in place yet, much less asset seizures.

Of course, Russian interests could remove those assets from foreign banks and markets and save them from seizure, but that would basically be voluntarily isolating themselves, which is the entire point of the sanctions and seizures in the first place.

This is going to 'hurt' the Russians in a big way on multiple levels, and it's going to hurt more and more as time passes and Russia makes it clear that they're not giving up the Crimean region.
2014-03-05 09:52:54 AM  
2 votes:

Oblio13: Infernalist: ...  NATO has said for many years that membership for Ukraine is there for the taking and they only need to ask for it.

Russia might well keep the Crimean territory, but they've driven Ukraine straight into the arms of NATO and there's no telling how many other Eastern European nations are going to follow Ukraine's lead.

Thanks to Putin, NATO troops are going to be sitting right on the Russian border.

NATO doesn't want Ukraine as a member because they'd be obligated to defend it in the event of something, well, exactly like this. Even George Bush backed off of inviting Ukraine to join.

NATO troops will indeed be sitting right on the Russian border, but the Russian border will be along Poland and the Baltic states.


Reality thinks you're an idiot.  It's a well-known documented reality that NATO has repeatedly extended the offer of membership to Ukraine.  They've only refused up to now because of the pro-Russian government that was in place.  That's changed and I can guarantee that Ukraine will be a member of NATO before the end of the year.  To say nothing of the other Eastern European countries that have, until now, felt secure that Russia wasn't the aggressive Empire that it was back in the USSR days.

So, yeah, Russia might get to keep the Crimean region under its thumb, but they're going to pay heavily for it with a newly hostile EU and Eastern Europe.  They've already lost billions and you can be sure that no one with any money is going to want to invest in an unstable aggressive Russia.
2014-03-05 09:29:02 AM  
2 votes:
Of course it's calmed down. Russia has gotten exactly what they wanted, an independent Crimea that's under Russian control. They've brought part of the Ukraine firmly into their grasp and secured their Black Sea naval bases.

Obama's supporters will now claim it's a great diplomatic victory while Ukraine loses a big chunk of territory to a Russian puppet state.
2014-03-05 09:24:59 AM  
2 votes:

EvilEgg: Putin was counting on some hothead giving him an excuse to invade, so far no one has. And everyone knows we aren't going to intervene militarily so there is really no point in pretending we are.  Sorry Ukraine we don't love you that much.


If by 'we', you mean the US military, you'd be correct.

That said, NATO is an animal of a completely different color.  NATO has said for many years that membership for Ukraine is there for the taking and they only need to ask for it.

Russia might well keep the Crimean territory, but they've driven Ukraine straight into the arms of NATO and there's no telling how many other Eastern European nations are going to follow Ukraine's lead.

Thanks to Putin, NATO troops are going to be sitting right on the Russian border.
2014-03-05 08:44:45 AM  
2 votes:
Putin was counting on some hothead giving him an excuse to invade, so far no one has. And everyone knows we aren't going to intervene militarily so there is really no point in pretending we are.  Sorry Ukraine we don't love you that much.
2014-03-05 11:04:40 AM  
1 votes:

Grahor: Let me see how it works. First you claim, despite all the evidence to the contrary, that Putin wants to capture the whole Ukraine and integrate it into Russia. Then, when the thing claimed by you don't happen, you proclaim it the great victory for you and a great loss for Putin - in fact, this coward is now running with his tail between his legs!


Russia has clearly been trying to provoke Ukrainian troops into firing the first shot, and Ukraine refuses to take the bait.  Without a casus belli, Russia can't move beyond Crimea.
2014-03-05 10:09:19 AM  
1 votes:

mongbiohazard: I would agree that this will drive Ukraine and other former Soviet satellite states in to the arms of the west and NATO.


*with deep sarcasm* and that would different from the situation before... how exactly?

I'm in Latvia, former Soviet satellite state. We are in NATO. AS IS EVERYONE ELSE ALREADY!  There is nobody else to drive to NATO because WE ARE THERE ALREADY.

Western Ukraine wanted to be in NATO for a long time; Eastern Ukraine didn't want it. Westerne Ukraine wants to be in NATO now even more; Eastern Ukraine doesn't want to be in NATO now even more. What have changed?
2014-03-05 10:04:55 AM  
1 votes:

Infernalist: Oblio13: Infernalist: ...  NATO has said for many years that membership for Ukraine is there for the taking and they only need to ask for it.

Russia might well keep the Crimean territory, but they've driven Ukraine straight into the arms of NATO and there's no telling how many other Eastern European nations are going to follow Ukraine's lead.

Thanks to Putin, NATO troops are going to be sitting right on the Russian border.

NATO doesn't want Ukraine as a member because they'd be obligated to defend it in the event of something, well, exactly like this. Even George Bush backed off of inviting Ukraine to join.

NATO troops will indeed be sitting right on the Russian border, but the Russian border will be along Poland and the Baltic states.

Reality thinks you're an idiot.  It's a well-known documented reality that NATO has repeatedly extended the offer of membership to Ukraine.  They've only refused up to now because of the pro-Russian government that was in place.  That's changed and I can guarantee that Ukraine will be a member of NATO before the end of the year.  To say nothing of the other Eastern European countries that have, until now, felt secure that Russia wasn't the aggressive Empire that it was back in the USSR days.

So, yeah, Russia might get to keep the Crimean region under its thumb, but they're going to pay heavily for it with a newly hostile EU and Eastern Europe.  They've already lost billions and you can be sure that no one with any money is going to want to invest in an unstable aggressive Russia.


I would agree that this will drive Ukraine and other former Soviet satellite states in to the arms of the west and NATO. I would also agree that this will have a negative effect on investment and trade with Russia... I wouldn't, however, say that no one will invest or trade with them... greed has little memory.
 
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