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(Daily Mail)   New parents take infant to swanky ski resort and are appalled to find anonymous note under their door addressing their screaming baby, selfishness, lack of common sense and neighbors' ruined sleep. Naturally they run to the media   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 221
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13551 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Mar 2014 at 1:49 AM (28 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-05 08:10:33 AM

KWess: TenJed_77: KWess: DittoToo: ambercat: In other cultures, parents feel shame when their children cause trouble for other adults. If children are acting out in public, it's acceptable for any adult around to tell them to knock it off, even threaten to tell their parents if their parent isn't nearby. Those cultures always have better behaved children. Wonder why?


I disagree.  Americans are the least tolerant of children when it comes to public dining.

Recently moved to France.  You're wrong.  A few months ago I was in a nice-enough restaurant in the town where I live.  A father sat his child on a chair in the corner for misbehaving.  No one batted an eye.  Parents walk their young kids to school here (there are no buses), and we see mothers regularly cuff their kids if they're rowdy.  So will the teachers.

What region?

Alsace..Strasbourg area.


Lucky! I'm about 35kms outside of Paris.
 
GCD
2014-03-05 08:11:29 AM
Just got back from a week in Florida with our 9-month old son. We expected the worst, but aside from a few minor outbursts (which 9-month old kids tend to have), the kid was a champ for the entire trip.

First flight? I figured I'd be buying those little bottles of airplane booze for us and everyone else. I even had budgeted for it. But nope, the kid proved me entirely wrong. No problems at all. Maybe a little more fuss than usual on take off and landing, but not unbearable by any means (and compared to some of the older kids on the plane he was a saint).

Flight home? He was a little more fussy, but we had the red-eye, so his routine was off...and again, compared to the several other hellions that were around us, this kid was golden. He slept for 90% of the trip...while the 2-year old behind us was a pure holy terror (to the point where the flight attendant had to step in).

I will readily admit that he was a little fussy at times, but again...he's 9-months old (and we suspect he's teething), plus he's off his regular routine. When we went out to breakfast and he was awesome....dinners were a little more fussy though because they were a little later than his usual bedtime, but he was still good...and it wasn't like we sat there and stuffed our faces while he screamed bloody murder...our meals would be cold by the time we got to eat them.

Believe me...when it's "your kid" doing the screaming...it sucks.
 
2014-03-05 08:13:24 AM

a_room_with_a_moose: We took our kids everywhere. Had to. Didn't know a soul nearby and no family in the area. Never past 9. Rarely to very swanky places. But we did take them to a ski resort once. They fussed a bit, but weren't anything compared to the people that partied till 4am in the room next to us.

Parents of young children need to get out, too. Young children are demanding. You should give their parents your sympathies, not your criticism.

And unless there is a no kids policy, I'LL decide where and when it is appropriate to take my children and YOU can STFU.

/you were prolly an obnoxious kidlet, yourself
//yeah, you!


Your sense of over entitlement just SCREAMS attention whore.

/NO you do not and will not have my sympathies
 
2014-03-05 08:16:48 AM

Langdon_777: TwowheelinTim: Smokey the Bare: Fubini: A "swanky" ski resort without soundproofing sounds like a euphemism for a cheap hotel. Loud TVs, loud sex, loud parties, etc. all generate noise otherwise.

Yup... About sums it up.

Alternately, call the front desk and ask for earplugs.

This... not so much.

I keep ear plugs handy when I travel and don't let the little stuff bother me.

It's all little stuff.

Yeap. Or turn the radio up or the tv.  Its not your house, you are staying at a place where other people stay ... so deal with it.

I tend to commiserate with parents of screaming children - they tend to be embarrased and powerless (before you ask, no I do not have any.)

If these people do not want to take the risk of suffering the pains of having other people a thin wall away then they should rent a chalet.

Personally I would have just gotten out of bed and either gone to the bar or watched a movie.


It's hard to deal with it when you don't have the physiology necessary to deal with it.  Some of us are hypersensitive and earplugs are painful.  Screaming children can go right over a TV, and a TV needs to be a constant or normal sound for me to fall asleep.

Do I have any less right to sleep in a hotel, especially given the fact that 90% of my hotel stays are noise-free?

Granted, sending a note is the wrong way to handle it.  The right way to handle it is to complain to the front desk staff to see if they can move you or remove the loud offense (they are fully within their right to kick a screaming child and his/her family out of the hotel, they just probably won't for the same backlash as you're seeing here).
 
2014-03-05 08:25:52 AM

WTFDYW: a_room_with_a_moose: We took our kids everywhere. Had to. Didn't know a soul nearby and no family in the area. Never past 9. Rarely to very swanky places. But we did take them to a ski resort once. They fussed a bit, but weren't anything compared to the people that partied till 4am in the room next to us.

Parents of young children need to get out, too. Young children are demanding. You should give their parents your sympathies, not your criticism.

And unless there is a no kids policy, I'LL decide where and when it is appropriate to take my children and YOU can STFU.

/you were prolly an obnoxious kidlet, yourself
//yeah, you!

Your sense of over entitlement just SCREAMS attention whore.

/NO you do not and will not have my sympathies


I live in a trailer in the woods and drive a 32 year old Chevy truck. I'm clearly over entitled.

Heh...
 
2014-03-05 08:28:25 AM
It's a newborn baby.

Mummy and Daddums can afford the resort obviously, despite the bills that will be piling on.

They probably won't get another chance for a long time.

Wait until the baby is a politician before complaining about the

screaming
fussing
hair pulling attempts to get it to eat when you want it to so you may be able to stay on a sleep schedule for work

tantrums.
garbled nonsense that you think may be words if you twitch your ears right

Politicians are more annoying.

076dd0a50e0c1255009e-bd4b8aabaca29897bc751dfaf75b290c.r40.cf1.rackcdn.com
 
2014-03-05 08:29:10 AM
I took an 11 month old to the Keys once and stayed in a nice, but not super nice, hotel in Miami the night before flying home. As we get off the elevator, some white-pants (after memorial day, no less) wearing bros mention that the "kid better not keep us up tonight." I advised them the kid would be fine. All went well and then, around 2 am, the bros returned from the local southbeach hellhole drunk and roudy. Everyone but my kid woke up.

Bro 1 and Bro 2 then get into an argument about how one was flirting with other boys. Blows are exchanged. Bro 1 retires to his room and sobs gently into his pillow, Bro 2 apparently left. The next morning, I see Bro 1 on the elevator going down and mock him relentlessly on the 26 floor ride down to the elevator.

The moral of my awsome story is this: In my 30 something years on this planet, adults are often the biggest source of annoying, rude behavior. That loud, drunk guy at the fancy restaurant is almost always a bigger distraction than the one or two children present. The annoying screaming woman at the sporting event or concert is exponentially more annoying than the bored toddler. The dude who won't put his phone down at the movie theater is certainly worse than the kid who exclaims "wow" or "bad guy" in a movie. [Don't go to a disney movie and then complain that the children ruined your experience, ass wipe]. While exceptions exist, adults are by far the worst offenders and people who biatch about kids usually need to take a long hard look in the mirror.
 
2014-03-05 08:29:37 AM
I took my daughter to see the Lego movie tonight. She's whatever years old. It doesn't mater because it was the theater's designated kids showing for the day. Early screening and on a Tuesday. We were the only ones with a kid. Kid was going "Oh no!!!" and "Yeh!" and "Wowwaahh!" and I could hear the adults around us hissing between their teeth every time. Not all, mind you, but enough. I wish one of them would have had the audacity to say something but it never happened. I would have enjoyed explaining the concept of kids night to them.

I don't understand this sentiment. At what age will your daughter be taught that "going 'Oh no!!!' and 'Yeh!' and 'Wowwaahh!'" is not acceptable behavior?
That's my issue with the "kid-will-be-kids" response to poor behavior. Yes, they're kids, but they need to be taught to behave like adults. Why not now?
 
hej
2014-03-05 08:30:02 AM
What the hell is wrong with people.  Leave your baby at the movie theater or library where it belongs.
 
2014-03-05 08:33:48 AM

Gunboat: I took my daughter to see the Lego movie tonight. She's whatever years old. It doesn't mater because it was the theater's designated kids showing for the day. Early screening and on a Tuesday. We were the only ones with a kid. Kid was going "Oh no!!!" and "Yeh!" and "Wowwaahh!" and I could hear the adults around us hissing between their teeth every time. Not all, mind you, but enough. I wish one of them would have had the audacity to say something but it never happened. I would have enjoyed explaining the concept of kids night to them.

I don't understand this sentiment. At what age will your daughter be taught that "going 'Oh no!!!' and 'Yeh!' and 'Wowwaahh!'" is not acceptable behavior?
That's my issue with the "kid-will-be-kids" response to poor behavior. Yes, they're kids, but they need to be taught to behave like adults. Why not now?


I'll ask the 70 year old woman at the next Godzilla movie who did things like that every 5 seconds. Before I stand up from the perfect seat and go sit in the only available one left in the back row.

On the other hand, the complaining adults were the idiots coming in on a kids showing day.
 
2014-03-05 08:39:22 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: I see parents taking their infant children out to dinner at 9 in the evening. I hear people talk about getting "parent time" and pawning the little kids off on babysitters. There are stories like this where parents are taking their babies to places inappropriate for them.

Being a parent means making some sacrifices. But somehow, somewhere along the line that concept was thrown out and parents just became selfish, self-centered brats for whom the baby is just an accessory to be gawked at by strangers.


i1196.photobucket.com
 
2014-03-05 08:43:57 AM

piltdown: Oh good, a "hate the breeders" thread.  These are always funny.


DittoToo: I took my daughter to see the Lego movie tonight.  She's whatever years old.  It doesn't mater because it was the theater's designated kids showing for the day.  Early screening and on a Tuesday.  We were the only ones with a kid.  Kid was going "Oh no!!!" and "Yeh!" and "Wowwaahh!" and I could hear the adults around us hissing between their teeth every time.  Not all, mind you, but enough.  I wish one of them would have had the audacity to say something but it never happened.  I would have enjoyed explaining the concept of kids night to them.

I feel the same way about Olive Garden, TGI Fridays, Outback, or even any local family dining joint.  If you see child seats, and the hostess handing out crayons, then maybe you should think a little harder about where you are taking your date.



fc04.deviantart.net
 
2014-03-05 08:43:58 AM
Seriously, the whole crux of this discussion is this: just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD. Sure, you CAN bring your 11-month-old to Le Cirque or DaSilvano, but why would you? These are examples of restaurants that are inappropriate for children. And sure, you CAN bring your 11-month-old or your toddler on a flight to T&C or Aruba, but why would you? These are places FOR ADULTS WHO LEAD BUSY HARRIED LIVES AND WANT TO RELAX. They ( and I mean my wife and I) do not want to listen to your little Timmy Poopy Pants have a meltdown in the palapa next to us. Why is this so farking hard for you people to understand?
If you choose to have children, guess what- you've relegated yourself to places like applebee's, McDonald's, Disney cruises and the like. Bringing them to adult-oriented places IS SIMPLY NOT APPROPRIATE.
 
2014-03-05 08:49:01 AM
ace in your face: I dunno what age this baby is, but I started skiing at 2. My daughter just turned 3 and still sometimes has night terrors or growing pains (or tantrums) and will scream at night for a bit. We are taking her to a swanky ski area next weekend in the Alps (because we live in Germany). I don't see anything inappropriate about it. I don't see anything inappropriate about taking an infant to a ski resort. there are lots of activities other than skiing and maybe only one parent is a skier anyway. I've been kept up by all kinds of noises in hotels, usually by adults, so suck it up buttercup. In addition to the mention of kids out after 9, not every kid is on the same schedule. My husband started working late so we pushed back dinner and bedtime. My daughter is perfectly capable of staying up late, and then she sleeps in later. It's past 10am now and I am still waiting on her. Kids are not all the same and parenting is not just done one way.
 
2014-03-05 08:50:03 AM
The brat's parents were rude and in the wrong. No one should have to hear a baby screaming. You have the right to be loud as you want. You don't have the right to interfere with my peace and quiet. Be it a baby, leaf blower or music the noise should not enter my space. It all about respect.
 
2014-03-05 08:50:17 AM

darch: Seriously, the whole crux of this discussion is this: just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD. Sure, you CAN bring your 11-month-old to Le Cirque or DaSilvano, but why would you? These are examples of restaurants that are inappropriate for children. And sure, you CAN bring your 11-month-old or your toddler on a flight to T&C or Aruba, but why would you? These are places FOR ADULTS WHO LEAD BUSY HARRIED LIVES AND WANT TO RELAX. They ( and I mean my wife and I) do not want to listen to your little Timmy Poopy Pants have a meltdown in the palapa next to us. Why is this so farking hard for you people to understand?
If you choose to have children, guess what- you've relegated yourself to places like applebee's, McDonald's, Disney cruises and the like. Bringing them to adult-oriented places IS SIMPLY NOT APPROPRIATE.


THIS.
 
2014-03-05 08:58:58 AM

piltdown: Oh good, a "hate the breeders" thread.  These are always funny.


Kids and parents are the only group that it is still politically correct to be a full-on bigot about.  The rage is so bottled up that when folks finally get a chance to let it out, it's like a tsunami through the flood gates.
 
2014-03-05 09:02:14 AM
My wife and I have a 5 month old, and having moved to a state far from relatives (for a job) we sometimes take our son with us if we eat out.

The difference? We feed him first, drive until he sacks out, then eat somewhere that's not so noisy it wakes him up.

9 times out of ten, he sleeps the whole time. The tenth, one of us takes him to the car while the other eats and we switch, or one takes him to the car while the other gets the food to go.

Being considerate is NOT hard as a parent. The few times we have had to travel and get hotels, we warn the front desk that we are bringing a baby, and ask for a room away from everyone else. Sometimes that means we don't get the exact type of room we want, but it's better for everyone.

Small sacrifices made occasionally make everyone's life better, including yours and your child's.

These parents were jerks.
 
2014-03-05 09:03:30 AM

darch: Seriously, the whole crux of this discussion is this: just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD. Sure, you CAN bring your 11-month-old to Le Cirque or DaSilvano, but why would you? These are examples of restaurants that are inappropriate for children. And sure, you CAN bring your 11-month-old or your toddler on a flight to T&C or Aruba, but why would you? These are places FOR ADULTS WHO LEAD BUSY HARRIED LIVES AND WANT TO RELAX. They ( and I mean my wife and I) do not want to listen to your little Timmy Poopy Pants have a meltdown in the palapa next to us. Why is this so farking hard for you people to understand?
If you choose to have children, guess what- you've relegated yourself to places like applebee's, McDonald's, Disney cruises and the like. Bringing them to adult-oriented places IS SIMPLY NOT APPROPRIATE.


Having been to several ski resorts in CO with all three of my kids, they are geared towards accomodating families. They all started ski school at age 2 and now ski and board black diamonds, far better than me. It's not like the people in TFA were at some adults-only enclave.

Apres ski or the high-end restaurants after 8pm? Not for kids. Getting an in-hotel sitter is a concierge call away. If I had a screaming baby in the room next to me and I was sans-kids, I would speak to management about a room change and would never think about being a dick enough to write a note directly like that.

A parent can only do so much to soothe a cranky baby, and as a parent of a perpetually cranky kid, it sucks ass when nothing you do helps. Babies have their own minds and personalities, some are chill, some are little a$$holes. I have two of the former, one of the latter. Through thoroughly introducing them to the expectations of civil life, with treating every moment as teachable, they are now generally well-behaved in public. Unless the one kid starts up, then one of us takes him out of wherever we are until he calms down (disclaimer: he is autistic but we don't allow that as an excuse for bad behavior).

I do agree younger kids should not be in restaurants/movies/stores past 8pm, and never in certain establishments (i.e. Alinea). They should be home getting ready for bed at that time, I feel terrible for kids whose parents don't keep them on normal schedules.
 
2014-03-05 09:10:53 AM

bk3k: I personally love people who bring their screaming toddlers to steak houses(or any sit down restaurants).  McDonalds sure.  But not nice places where people actually want to sit down and have a reasonably peaceful meal.  Those sort of people don't exactly care once the kids act up, don't do a damn thing about it, and have no shame nor consideration of others.


We were eating in a Mexican family restaurant, when three families showed up to sit together. Their children (not one appeared to be over 8 years old) were all seated at a separate table while the parents sat together so they could converse. The kids, of course (there were about 8 of them), once they realized no one was paying attention to them, began acting like kids; yelling, getting up and wandering around, being noisy, etc.

The servers tried to keep order by bringing them chips and drinks, but that didn't help, and the parents were so engrossed in their conversation they weren't paying attention. A middle aged woman showed up and was seated right next to the kids; she had a book with her so it was obvious she intended to read quietly while waiting on her meal. The volume from the kids kept going up, and eventually the woman just stood up and yelled at the kids "will you PLEASE sit down and be quiet??!". After that the parents belatedly tried to impose some order on the kids; the woman got applause from the rest of us as well as the service staff.
 
2014-03-05 09:14:48 AM
ytterbium:
A parent can only do so much to soothe a cranky baby, and as a parent of a perpetually cranky kid, it sucks ass when nothing you do helps. Babies have their own minds and personalities, some are chill, some are little a$$holes.

Every hotel room comes with ice bags, and they are always large enough to fit around a baby's head. Try it next time, I guarantee the screaming will stop.
 
2014-03-05 09:15:08 AM
Babies have their own minds and personalities,

I was in  your corner right up until that point.

Babies- until a certain age, say 1- have no cognitive "mind". Their only "thoughts" are instinctive impulses to eat and when food isn't offered, to cry about it. That's IT. And that's how Nature designed us. No problem there. The problem comes in when you decide that it's ok to bring little Hudson or Clara into a high-end restaurant because you've also decided that since you've committed the wondrous miracle of procreation , the rest of us must want to experience everything there is to know about your child- all while we dine.

News flash- we don't.
 
2014-03-05 09:22:25 AM

GCD: Just got back from a week in Florida with our 9-month old son. We expected the worst, but aside from a few minor outbursts (which 9-month old kids tend to have), the kid was a champ for the entire trip.

First flight? I figured I'd be buying those little bottles of airplane booze for us and everyone else. I even had budgeted for it. But nope, the kid proved me entirely wrong. No problems at all. Maybe a little more fuss than usual on take off and landing, but not unbearable by any means (and compared to some of the older kids on the plane he was a saint).

Flight home? He was a little more fussy, but we had the red-eye, so his routine was off...and again, compared to the several other hellions that were around us, this kid was golden. He slept for 90% of the trip...while the 2-year old behind us was a pure holy terror (to the point where the flight attendant had to step in).

I will readily admit that he was a little fussy at times, but again...he's 9-months old (and we suspect he's teething), plus he's off his regular routine. When we went out to breakfast and he was awesome....dinners were a little more fussy though because they were a little later than his usual bedtime, but he was still good...and it wasn't like we sat there and stuffed our faces while he screamed bloody murder...our meals would be cold by the time we got to eat them.

Believe me...when it's "your kid" doing the screaming...it sucks.



Just flew out to AZ (from upstate NY) with our 11 month-old, and it was definitely stressful whenever he cried.  The reason it was stressful:  because I assume that everyone else on that airplane is a young, male, childfree Farker, pretty much the most hostile, least-sympathetic demographic one could possibly imagine.  I was stressed because I could just imagine everyone furiously typing anti-baby rants on their adorable little iDevices.

It was interesting, because normally I'm 100% focused on the baby if he's crying, trying to address his anguish.  But not so on an airplane, where the priority is to thwart the looks and comments from the evolutionary cul-de-sacs.
 
2014-03-05 09:23:50 AM
As someone who was raised around a restaurant, I'm getting a kick...

1. A restaurant is a place of business where people pay for an experience which food is only a part of the experience. It is not an extension of your personal living room.

If I started getting fussy, I was taken outside away from customers until I could behave myself. I was not allowed to run around. I was supervised and taught not to run around or disturb others.

1. A movie theater is a place of business where people pay for an experience which the film is only a part of the experience. It is not an extension of your personal living room.

My first movie was at a drive in, it was the film release of MASH in 1969. It was fun. I had no interest in the movie, mom brought games for me and sis. I fell asleep in the back seat for most of it.

When I went into indoor venues I was taught how to be quiet and not bother others.

We as aa a society have forgotten how to treat others, be considerate of others' needs outside of your own, and not impinge on others' right to a private outing instead of being attention whores monopolizing the venue by being disruptive.

Manners are dead.
 
2014-03-05 09:24:35 AM
TanHamster:
Just flew out to AZ (from upstate NY) with our 11 month-old, and it was definitely stressful whenever he cried.  The reason it was stressful:  because I assume that everyone else on that airplane is a young, male, childfree Farker, pretty much the most hostile, least-sympathetic demographic one could possibly imagine.  I was stressed because I could just imagine everyone furiously typing anti-baby rants on their adorable little iDevices.

Maybe next time you'll just drive your screaming shiat machine, instead of imposing on them for your own convenience. Then you'd have no need to worry about being hating you for being an asshole!
 
2014-03-05 09:27:24 AM

Englebert Slaptyback: Mythdragon: you might be the only person in history to confuse Samuel L. Jackson with Eric Stoltz.


SLJ = Jules
ES = Lance


Copy/paste from IMDB. Didn't pay attention to the names.

I don't have time to fact-check everything man, I have snarky comments to post!
What do you want? Journalistic integrity?
 
2014-03-05 09:30:31 AM

BayouOtter: TanHamster:
Just flew out to AZ (from upstate NY) with our 11 month-old, and it was definitely stressful whenever he cried.  The reason it was stressful:  because I assume that everyone else on that airplane is a young, male, childfree Farker, pretty much the most hostile, least-sympathetic demographic one could possibly imagine.  I was stressed because I could just imagine everyone furiously typing anti-baby rants on their adorable little iDevices.

Maybe next time you'll just drive your screaming shiat machine, instead of imposing on them for your own convenience. Then you'd have no need to worry about being hating you for being an asshole!



Yeah, next time I'll drive from NY to AZ and back again because 5-10 minutes of crying is too disruptive for your delicate sensibilties.
 
2014-03-05 09:31:38 AM

darch: Babies have their own minds and personalities,

I was in  your corner right up until that point.

Babies- until a certain age, say 1- have no cognitive "mind". Their only "thoughts" are instinctive impulses to eat and when food isn't offered, to cry about it. That's IT. And that's how Nature designed us. No problem there. The problem comes in when you decide that it's ok to bring little Hudson or Clara into a high-end restaurant because you've also decided that since you've committed the wondrous miracle of procreation , the rest of us must want to experience everything there is to know about your child- all while we dine.

News flash- we don't.


How many babies have you had the sole responsibility of caring for? I have had three, including twins. Each had her/his own distinct personality from birth. Tabula rasa is a myth.

And, if you happened to have read what I wrote more clearly, you would see that I agree that young children should not be taken to high-end restaurants at all and to regular restaurants after 8pm. I never said my little snowflakes are entitled to annoy diners at a $50/plate dinner.
 
2014-03-05 09:32:55 AM
TanHamster:
Yeah, next time I'll drive from NY to AZ and back again because 5-10 minutes of crying is too disruptive for your delicate sensibilties.

I'm sure your baby will fondly remember Wicked and the Statue of Liberty forever from its unforgettable vacation. Those memories are worth terrorizing a hundred strangers for hours with continuous screaming and the foul stenches of a dead skunk drowned in a port-a-john.
 
2014-03-05 09:34:00 AM

pho75: I took an 11 month old to the Keys once and stayed in a nice, but not super nice, hotel in Miami the night before flying home. As we get off the elevator, some white-pants (after memorial day, no less) wearing bros mention that the "kid better not keep us up tonight." I advised them the kid would be fine. All went well and then, around 2 am, the bros returned from the local southbeach hellhole drunk and roudy. Everyone but my kid woke up.

Bro 1 and Bro 2 then get into an argument about how one was flirting with other boys. Blows are exchanged. Bro 1 retires to his room and sobs gently into his pillow, Bro 2 apparently left. The next morning, I see Bro 1 on the elevator going down and mock him relentlessly on the 26 floor ride down to the elevator.

The moral of my awsome story is this: In my 30 something years on this planet, adults are often the biggest source of annoying, rude behavior. That loud, drunk guy at the fancy restaurant is almost always a bigger distraction than the one or two children present. The annoying screaming woman at the sporting event or concert is exponentially more annoying than the bored toddler. The dude who won't put his phone down at the movie theater is certainly worse than the kid who exclaims "wow" or "bad guy" in a movie. [Don't go to a disney movie and then complain that the children ruined your experience, ass wipe]. While exceptions exist, adults are by far the worst offenders and people who biatch about kids usually need to take a long hard look in the mirror.


This * 1e12.  Whenever I see a group of teens or 20 somethings sit down next to me at a restaurant or a movie theater, I know I'm in for a loud, device-glowing evening.  And I'll take the toddler next to me on an airplane any day over 300 lb guy or chatty lady or I-don't-use-deodorant dude.
 
2014-03-05 09:37:19 AM

BayouOtter: TanHamster:
Yeah, next time I'll drive from NY to AZ and back again because 5-10 minutes of crying is too disruptive for your delicate sensibilties.

I'm sure your baby will fondly remember Wicked and the Statue of Liberty forever from its unforgettable vacation. Those memories are worth terrorizing a hundred strangers for hours with continuous screaming and the foul stenches of a dead skunk drowned in a port-a-john.



I live in upstate NY.
 
2014-03-05 09:39:32 AM

TanHamster: GCD: Just got back from a week in Florida with our 9-month old son. We expected the worst, but aside from a few minor outbursts (which 9-month old kids tend to have), the kid was a champ for the entire trip.

First flight? I figured I'd be buying those little bottles of airplane booze for us and everyone else. I even had budgeted for it. But nope, the kid proved me entirely wrong. No problems at all. Maybe a little more fuss than usual on take off and landing, but not unbearable by any means (and compared to some of the older kids on the plane he was a saint).

Flight home? He was a little more fussy, but we had the red-eye, so his routine was off...and again, compared to the several other hellions that were around us, this kid was golden. He slept for 90% of the trip...while the 2-year old behind us was a pure holy terror (to the point where the flight attendant had to step in).

I will readily admit that he was a little fussy at times, but again...he's 9-months old (and we suspect he's teething), plus he's off his regular routine. When we went out to breakfast and he was awesome....dinners were a little more fussy though because they were a little later than his usual bedtime, but he was still good...and it wasn't like we sat there and stuffed our faces while he screamed bloody murder...our meals would be cold by the time we got to eat them.

Believe me...when it's "your kid" doing the screaming...it sucks.


Just flew out to AZ (from upstate NY) with our 11 month-old, and it was definitely stressful whenever he cried.  The reason it was stressful:  because I assume that everyone else on that airplane is a young, male, childfree Farker, pretty much the most hostile, least-sympathetic demographic one could possibly imagine.  I was stressed because I could just imagine everyone furiously typing anti-baby rants on their adorable little iDevices.

It was interesting, because normally I'm 100% focused on the baby if he's crying, trying to address his anguish.  But not ...




Why the hate for the childless? My wife and I choose to not have kids. Does the fact you squeezed a brat out make you a better person? Being a mom does not excuse dick behavior. Kids should be seen not heard in public. Respecting the other people on the flight is what you should have done. Keep the critter quiet or keep it at home.
 
2014-03-05 09:40:42 AM

TanHamster: I'm sure your baby will fondly remember Wicked and the Statue of Liberty forever from its unforgettable vacation. Those memories are worth terrorizing a hundred strangers for hours with continuous screaming and the foul stenches of a dead skunk drowned in a port-a-john.


I'm sure your baby will fondly remember the beautiful Arizona sights and the glorious vision of the desert forever from its unforgettable vacation to Arizona. Those memories are worth terrorizing a hundred strangers for hours with continuous screaming and the foul stenches of a dead skunk drowned in a port-a-john.

There you go.
 
2014-03-05 09:47:27 AM
A lot of this thread is about "parents need a break too" vs. "stay home with your kids until they're functioning adults".

But HOW do small children become functional adults without field practice?  Yes, occasional mistakes will be made, but you correct them and move on.  I don't take my kids to fancy restaurants after bedtime, but I DO expect them to behave properly at a fairly nice bistro in the middle of the afternoon while out adventuring in the city.  They eat real food, not fish fingers, so we go to real restaurants, and they sit still and eat with their forks, and speak politely to servers and neighboring diners.  They are 2 and 4, by the way.  If they don't, I pay the bill and we leave.  Occasionally, in the period between misbehaviour and leaving, there is a scene.  I try to minimize it.  Hopefully this will create people who can eat in public and conduct themselves appropriately as adults (which seems to be rare nowadays).

Same with travelling.  We travel a lot.  We own a soccer club, and go to a lot of tournament weekends.  How does a child learn to behave in a hotel, or on a train, or in an airport, if he has never been exposed to one with appropriate rules?  We flew from Toronto to Pheonix through Denver, where we were delayed for 7 hours, and my (then 3 and 10 month old) were among the most well-behaved there.  The 55-year-old guy who through a giant temper tantrum about sitting next to the 3 year old (who promptly fell asleep), hm?   And that trip was to stay at a golf resort and hike in Sedona and the Grand Canyon.  There were no other children there, and my kids had a fabulous time.  I'd rather take them to a place to experience SOMETHING, rather than canned family entertainment.

It's not about banning children from public places. It's about teaching them how to act in those places.
 
2014-03-05 09:50:09 AM

sjcousins: Ready-set: Yeah. Having children means making sacrifices. Too many parents have the 'my child is special and belongs everywhere at all times' mentality.

You can't have it both ways.

And too many people have the 'I'm special and deserve to never be mildly inconvenienced anywhere I go' mentality.


Keep that thought for when I'm using an air horn in your ear.
 
2014-03-05 09:50:10 AM
Civchic:
It's not about banning children from public places. It's about teaching them how to act in those places.

Its about teaching adults to parent their kids.
 
2014-03-05 09:50:30 AM
Hey, if you take up 1.5 seats on a plane buy both seats. If you bring your kid to an accepted adults only or family get away location of a civilized nature and it is going to cry buy the rooms around you. If you bring a baby to a bar or restraunt during times parents get babysitters to have adult time buy the place a round or stay home for a few years. Oh wait... No one will babysit for you and even your parents won't watch your kid? Reevaluate your life... You're doing it wrong and so will your kids.
 
2014-03-05 09:56:16 AM

Civchic: A lot of this thread is about "parents need a break too" vs. "stay home with your kids until they're functioning adults".

But HOW do small children become functional adults without field practice?  Yes, occasional mistakes will be made, but you correct them and move on.  I don't take my kids to fancy restaurants after bedtime, but I DO expect them to behave properly at a fairly nice bistro in the middle of the afternoon while out adventuring in the city.  They eat real food, not fish fingers, so we go to real restaurants, and they sit still and eat with their forks, and speak politely to servers and neighboring diners.  They are 2 and 4, by the way.  If they don't, I pay the bill and we leave.  Occasionally, in the period between misbehaviour and leaving, there is a scene.  I try to minimize it.  Hopefully this will create people who can eat in public and conduct themselves appropriately as adults (which seems to be rare nowadays).

Same with travelling.  We travel a lot.  We own a soccer club, and go to a lot of tournament weekends.  How does a child learn to behave in a hotel, or on a train, or in an airport, if he has never been exposed to one with appropriate rules?  We flew from Toronto to Pheonix through Denver, where we were delayed for 7 hours, and my (then 3 and 10 month old) were among the most well-behaved there.  The 55-year-old guy who through a giant temper tantrum about sitting next to the 3 year old (who promptly fell asleep), hm?   And that trip was to stay at a golf resort and hike in Sedona and the Grand Canyon.  There were no other children there, and my kids had a fabulous time.  I'd rather take them to a place to experience SOMETHING, rather than canned family entertainment.

It's not about banning children from public places. It's about teaching them how to act in those places.


Thank you.   They need to be exposed to learn.

At the same time, you have to be prepared to walk away from a meal.  Sometimes that means that one of us gets our food to go while the other walks the kid out.  If we are dining with others, well, sometimes I have to take the baby out and wait for everyone else.  If the kid is crying in the middle of the night at a hotel, then you have to put on a pair of jeans and take them for a walk to the lobby.
 
2014-03-05 10:04:42 AM

Mid_mo_mad_man: Being a mom does not excuse dick behavior. Kids should be seen not heard in public. Respecting the other people on the flight is what you should have done. Keep the critter quiet or keep it at home.


Being a mom does not excuse dick behavior.


Good, because I'm a dad!

Why the hate for the childless?

I'll answer that by directing your attention to your own words:  "Kids should be seen not heard in public. Respecting the other people on the flight is what you should have done. Keep the critter quiet or keep it at home."


Again, read what I wrote.  I said he cried 5-10 minutes.  My point was that my stress came about simply because I knew there'd be people like you grinding their teeth for those few minutes.
 
hej
2014-03-05 10:05:24 AM

Civchic: A lot of this thread is about "parents need a break too" vs. "stay home with your kids until they're functioning adults".

But HOW do small children become functional adults without field practice?


I've got a kid.  I didn't take him to movies, restaurants, book stores, or any other place people had a reasonable expectation for some peace and quiet until he was old enough to listen when I told him to behave (i.e. about 4 years old).  As far as I'm concerned, the "parents need a break too" crowd can F themselves if they think making me listen to their screaming seed is ok.
 
2014-03-05 10:06:55 AM

TheYeti: At the same time, you have to be prepared to walk away from a meal. Sometimes that means that one of us gets our food to go while the other walks the kid out. If we are dining with others, well, sometimes I have to take the baby out and wait for everyone else. If the kid is crying in the middle of the night at a hotel, then you have to put on a pair of jeans and take them for a walk to the lobby.


Yes, exactly.  I have spent half an hour walking round and round a restaurant with a cranky baby while the rest of my extended family enjoys Nana's birthday dinner out.  Fun, no.  Part of being a parent, yes.  Plus, my kids know that the death-whisper-hiss "If you don't cut that out NOW we are going out the CAR and you will NOT LIKE IT." means something.

I refuse to be "relegated to McDonald's, Disney cruises, etc" just because I had kids.  Kids that only ever go to McDonald's and Disney cruises end up mouth-breathing idiots who pick their noses at the table and talk on their cell phones in restaurants.
 
2014-03-05 10:10:58 AM
'Your comment will offer them compassion, as well as a reality check. (Oh, right, the walls aren't soundproof.) And perhaps it will give them an opportunity to explain their child's unhappiness. After all, you might feel more tolerant if you learn that the baby is, say, teething.'

Why would I be more tolerant if the kid is teething?  All the more reason they shouldn't bring it to a resort with other people trying to sleep.  It'd be one thing if they HAD to go out of town, for say a wedding or funeral I could understand, usually then your room could likely be next to someone who already knows you.

But the stupidest thing was the brother who wrote:
In conclusion, he wrote: 'If it's not a child, it will be a dog; if it's not a dog, it will be a group of drunken fraternity members, or a construction crew, or a leaky faucet.
'Maybe loud lovers, the TV in the next room, or a neighbor who leaves their radio clock on all night that will disturb your slumber. It's always something, isn't it?


If you're at a swanky ski resort, I doubt it'd be a dog or construction crew. Drunken frat boys could be dealt with either the same way as the parents w/their baby, or calling the front desk or cops.  Seriously though, this sort of response just nails the coffin about inconsideration.  Saying that "Well something might keep you up, so it might as well be me" is just asinine.  Like, hey, you might die from cancer or a car crash, or old age, so I might as well just slice your throat right now.
 
2014-03-05 10:12:24 AM
seriously... if you birth a screaming meatbag... dont force your suffering on us. get a baby sitter... if its too expensive.... WHAT THE fark ARE YOU SPENDING THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS ON A TRIP FOR?!?!? feed your kids you rednecks, let us vacation in peace.
 
2014-03-05 10:12:57 AM
BayouOtter:
I'm sure your baby will fondly remember the beautiful Arizona sights and the glorious vision of the desert forever from its unforgettable vacation to Arizona. Those memories are worth terrorizing a hundred strangers for hours with continuous screaming and the foul stenches of a dead skunk drowned in a port-a-john.

There you go.



His AZ grandparents will remember the early 1st birthday that we celebrated.  Those memories are worth the 5-10 minutes of crying and 1 wet diaper change.

Anyway, ignore list for you.  I try to be patient with morons who fail at reading comprehension, but sometimes it's just too much.
 
2014-03-05 10:25:05 AM

hej: Civchic: A lot of this thread is about "parents need a break too" vs. "stay home with your kids until they're functioning adults".

But HOW do small children become functional adults without field practice?

I've got a kid.  I didn't take him to movies, restaurants, book stores, or any other place people had a reasonable expectation for some peace and quiet until he was old enough to listen when I told him to behave (i.e. about 4 years old).  As far as I'm concerned, the "parents need a break too" crowd can F themselves if they think making me listen to their screaming seed is ok.


Being in 'adult' settings should be a privilege that can be revoked if the child is not behaving and they are capable of understanding this about 3 or 4, or at least my kids were.
 
2014-03-05 10:31:52 AM
TanHamster:
His AZ grandparents will remember the early 1st birthday that we celebrated.  Those memories are worth the 5-10 minutes of crying and 1 wet diaper change.


Crazy idea, but maybe the grandparents could have flown to New York? More reasonable than the three hours (sorry, five minutes) your shiatmachine was screaming.

You're a still a selfish jackhole.
 
2014-03-05 10:32:44 AM

TanHamster: Mid_mo_mad_man: Being a mom does not excuse dick behavior. Kids should be seen not heard in public. Respecting the other people on the flight is what you should have done. Keep the critter quiet or keep it at home.


Being a mom does not excuse dick behavior.

Good, because I'm a dad!

Why the hate for the childless?

I'll answer that by directing your attention to your own words:  "Kids should be seen not heard in public. Respecting the other people on the flight is what you should have done. Keep the critter quiet or keep it at home."


Again, read what I wrote.  I said he cried 5-10 minutes.  My point was that my stress came about simply because I knew there'd be people like you grinding their teeth for those few minutes.




If you knew people would be grinding thier teeth you knew you were in the wrong.
 
2014-03-05 10:34:32 AM

BayouOtter: TanHamster:
His AZ grandparents will remember the early 1st birthday that we celebrated.  Those memories are worth the 5-10 minutes of crying and 1 wet diaper change.


Crazy idea, but maybe the grandparents could have flown to New York? More reasonable than the three hours (sorry, five minutes) your shiatmachine was screaming.

You're a still a selfish jackhole.


I take about 70 or so flights per year.  Babies on planes are not a big deal, at least for me.  I have no expectation of privacy or an 'adults-only' experience, so whatever.  They only really cry on take-off and landing (likely little ears popping) so no bigs.  Whenever I hear a baby on a plane crying I say to myself, 'I know how you feel, brother.'
 
2014-03-05 10:39:03 AM
Oh good, another "don't be so selfish and think of other people" thread where people selfishly whine about being inconvenienced by someone else's child.  There wasn't enough hypocrisy in the Politics tab so why not.

FTFA:  We need more people who think of others and less selfish ones.

Right, that goddamn selfish baby, crying, and it doesn't care who it wakes up.  Stupid babies, amirite?

Here's a thought: for a lot of people the planning window for a big vacation might be 12-18 months in advance, and the gestation period for a human baby is 10 months.  You could plan the vacation in advance and end up with a surprise in the interim.  Maybe go on vacation somewhere that you can get a decent hotel room that doesn't have paper thin walls or stay home if you can't afford it, because most likely if it wasn't the baby this idiot was pissed about it would have been the hours of screaming and moaning in the effort to inconvenience the people at next years vacation with a baby crying.
 
2014-03-05 10:41:57 AM

BayouOtter: TanHamster:
His AZ grandparents will remember the early 1st birthday that we celebrated.  Those memories are worth the 5-10 minutes of crying and 1 wet diaper change.


Crazy idea, but maybe the grandparents could have flown to New York? More reasonable than the three hours (sorry, five minutes) your shiatmachine was screaming.

You're a still a selfish jackhole.


So are you.  At least own it.
 
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