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(Salon)   Turns out those easily replaceable fast food workers striking may have had more of an effect the industry wants to let on   (salon.com) divider line 279
    More: Interesting, Securities and Exchange Commission  
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6305 clicks; posted to Politics » on 04 Mar 2014 at 6:53 PM (29 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-04 06:53:33 PM
So anyone up for figuring out how much it would cost them to replace all of the cashiers with touchscreens?

Or at what point that automatic burger machine starts making a lot of sense?

Or at what point they're forced to pay $15/hour, so they fire all of their old employees and advertise for newer, better ones?*

Or at what point the entire business model goes away because a Big Mac costs $15?  (Note: Given that they have McD's in Norway, I'm much more prepared to bet on the above happening than these ones)

*Because Walmart wages get Walmart employees and Costco wages get Costco employees.  And the difference between those 2 things is ridiculously huge.
 
2014-03-04 06:55:54 PM
HURR SALON QUIT PICKING ON RIGHT WINGERS
I'M SICK OF THE HARDON YOU HAVE
FOR RIGHT WINGERS
DURR

/durr
 
2014-03-04 06:58:19 PM

meyerkev: So anyone up for figuring out how much it would cost them to replace all of the cashiers with touchscreens?.


I'm noting that you could be spending the exact same energy justifying why workers should be paid living wages instead of giving a 3rd hand to the social conservatives who want a low wage, low growth economy.

Just saying.
 
2014-03-04 06:58:32 PM
In those types of filings, you're pretty much obliged to come up with every risk possibility you can think of, however unlikely without being ridiculous (dinosaur attacks, etc) to avoid shareholder litigation.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-03-04 07:00:36 PM
This disclosure is to fend off security litigation lawyers. If anti-fast food protests have a 1% chance of hurting their stock price, that's a 1% chance of getting sued if they don't put it in the regulatory filing. The lawyers will advise mentioning it just in case.
 
2014-03-04 07:01:04 PM

meyerkev: Or at what point the entire business model goes away because a Big Mac costs $15?


It costs about 30 cents for the labor to make a Big Mac. So doubling wages would increase the cost 30 cents more. To add what 11 dollars to the cost of a Big Mac, you'd need to pay about 300 dollars an hour.
 
2014-03-04 07:02:23 PM

WhyteRaven74: meyerkev: Or at what point the entire business model goes away because a Big Mac costs $15?

It costs about 30 cents for the labor to make a Big Mac. So doubling wages would increase the cost 30 cents more. To add what 11 dollars to the cost of a Big Mac, you'd need to pay about 300 dollars an hour.


Source on the labor costs?
 
2014-03-04 07:04:09 PM

Summercat: Source on the labor costs?


I'll see if I can dig it up again. And if I remember right the cost was basically worst case scenario, low volume, slow part of the day type deal.
 
2014-03-04 07:05:35 PM

Summercat: WhyteRaven74: meyerkev: Or at what point the entire business model goes away because a Big Mac costs $15?

It costs about 30 cents for the labor to make a Big Mac. So doubling wages would increase the cost 30 cents more. To add what 11 dollars to the cost of a Big Mac, you'd need to pay about 300 dollars an hour.

Source on the labor costs?


You might want to bang on your sarcasm meter.
 
2014-03-04 07:05:37 PM

whidbey: meyerkev: So anyone up for figuring out how much it would cost them to replace all of the cashiers with touchscreens?.

I'm noting that you could be spending the exact same energy justifying why workers should be paid living wages instead of giving a 3rd hand to the social conservatives who want a low wage, low growth economy.

Just saying.


So it's a legitimate question.

If a touchscreen runs $14/hour, and a worker runs $15 (+ payroll tax + all of the other employee costs), then it makes sense to switch over to touchscreens.

And then the 299.99 Million Americans who don't work at McDonald's get to enjoy slightly cheaper burgers.

So it's a net gain.

I'm trying to get a feel for the current ceiling on this particular low-skill job's pay.

/Seriously, kiddos, get born with High g, and pay farking attention in school.  It might not be useful now, but 30 years from now, you'll be one of the 20% with a job that isn't fellating the 20%.
//Though given that the Asians are paying $100/hour for private tutoring, fellating might not be so bad.
///And may god have mercy on you if you have an IQ from 80-110.   Less than 80 was already screwed, 110+ is super-smart and can leverage computers, 80-110 is about to get shafted (but that's OK, because most of the stuff that the 110+ make is basically free).
 
2014-03-04 07:06:29 PM
Corporate interests misrepresenting a situation to avoid looking bad and only owning up when on the verge of disaster. Sorry I don't buy it.
 
2014-03-04 07:06:35 PM

Summercat: WhyteRaven74: meyerkev: Or at what point the entire business model goes away because a Big Mac costs $15?

It costs about 30 cents for the labor to make a Big Mac. So doubling wages would increase the cost 30 cents more. To add what 11 dollars to the cost of a Big Mac, you'd need to pay about 300 dollars an hour.

Source on the labor costs?


As fast-food workers strike and protest in seven cities across the country this week for higher pay, one estimate suggests that raising the minimum wage from $7.25 to $15 an hour could increase the cost of a Big Mac by 68 cents.

And that's one estimate. Negligible.

This is without getting all moralistic on people's asses by saying fast food SHOULD be expensive.
 
2014-03-04 07:06:52 PM

WhyteRaven74: Summercat: Source on the labor costs?

I'll see if I can dig it up again. And if I remember right the cost was basically worst case scenario, low volume, slow part of the day type deal.


Or maybe not?
 
2014-03-04 07:07:17 PM
Oh and that was from ABC News last summer:

Link
 
2014-03-04 07:07:35 PM

meyerkev: If a touchscreen runs $14/hour, and a worker runs $15 (+ payroll tax + all of the other employee costs), then it makes sense to switch over to touchscreens.


Not if it drives away your customers.
 
2014-03-04 07:09:54 PM

ginandbacon: Summercat: WhyteRaven74: meyerkev: Or at what point the entire business model goes away because a Big Mac costs $15?

It costs about 30 cents for the labor to make a Big Mac. So doubling wages would increase the cost 30 cents more. To add what 11 dollars to the cost of a Big Mac, you'd need to pay about 300 dollars an hour.

Source on the labor costs?

You might want to bang on your sarcasm meter.


No, I seriously see that posted. It seems to be incorrect - the study done that showed that was... not properly done and ought to be discarded. Apparently the true labor cost of a Big Mac is like 1.28.

whidbey: Summercat: WhyteRaven74: meyerkev: Or at what point the entire business model goes away because a Big Mac costs $15?

It costs about 30 cents for the labor to make a Big Mac. So doubling wages would increase the cost 30 cents more. To add what 11 dollars to the cost of a Big Mac, you'd need to pay about 300 dollars an hour.

Source on the labor costs?

As fast-food workers strike and protest in seven cities across the country this week for higher pay, one estimate suggests that raising the minimum wage from $7.25 to $15 an hour could increase the cost of a Big Mac by 68 cents.

And that's one estimate. Negligible.

This is without getting all moralistic on people's asses by saying fast food SHOULD be expensive.


Was that based on the UoK report that has since been pulled?
 
2014-03-04 07:10:04 PM
meyerkev:

Or at what point they're forced to pay $15/hour, so they fire all of their old employees and advertise for newer, better ones?*

Or at what point the entire business model goes away because a Big Mac costs $15?  (Note: Given that they have McD's in Norway, I'm much more prepared to bet on the above happening than these ones)


in 2012 McDs made 27.5 BILLION in profits.  Spare me the "poor rich man" argument.
 
2014-03-04 07:12:01 PM
People used to get paid good wages and get pensions in the 50's and 60's. And since that time productivity has sky rocketed without wages moving up at all.

So to say we can't afford people to pay higher wages is complete bullshiat.
 
2014-03-04 07:12:30 PM

Summercat: Apparently the true labor cost of a Big Mac is like 1.28.


Actually the cost is variable depending on several factors, for it to be $1.28 you'd need to be making very few Big Macs given how little the employees are paid.
 
2014-03-04 07:13:53 PM

WhyteRaven74: meyerkev: If a touchscreen runs $14/hour, and a worker runs $15 (+ payroll tax + all of the other employee costs), then it makes sense to switch over to touchscreens.

Not if it drives away your customers.


Jack-In-The-Box out by me has been trying out touch screen kiosks in conjunction with counter workers. They tend to operate at a speech volume meant to shame anyone ordering food. Also, they are actually slower to use than just placing the order with an actual person thanks to all of the forced pauses for screen refreshes and upsells. Though the fact that they get little-to-no use is a good way to jump to the head of the line for your order should there be a line.
 
2014-03-04 07:14:04 PM

WhyteRaven74: meyerkev: If a touchscreen runs $14/hour, and a worker runs $15 (+ payroll tax + all of the other employee costs), then it makes sense to switch over to touchscreens.

Not if it drives away your customers.


If it works, they will implement it no matter how cheap they can hire people - machines are cheaper.
If a job can be automated, making wage concessions won't save it.
 
2014-03-04 07:15:16 PM

Summercat: Was that based on the UoK report that has since been pulled?


Look, the point is that the cost is low. A lot lower than what they're charging.

Why do you care, anyway?
 
2014-03-04 07:15:54 PM

meyerkev: whidbey: meyerkev: So anyone up for figuring out how much it would cost them to replace all of the cashiers with touchscreens?.

I'm noting that you could be spending the exact same energy justifying why workers should be paid living wages instead of giving a 3rd hand to the social conservatives who want a low wage, low growth economy.

Just saying.

So it's a legitimate question.

If a touchscreen runs $14/hour, and a worker runs $15 (+ payroll tax + all of the other employee costs), then it makes sense to switch over to touchscreens.

And then the 299.99 Million Americans who don't work at McDonald's get to enjoy slightly cheaper burgers.

So it's a net gain.

I'm trying to get a feel for the current ceiling on this particular low-skill job's pay.

/Seriously, kiddos, get born with High g, and pay farking attention in school.  It might not be useful now, but 30 years from now, you'll be one of the 20% with a job that isn't fellating the 20%.
//Though given that the Asians are paying $100/hour for private tutoring, fellating might not be so bad.
///And may god have mercy on you if you have an IQ from 80-110.   Less than 80 was already screwed, 110+ is super-smart and can leverage computers, 80-110 is about to get shafted (but that's OK, because most of the stuff that the 110+ make is basically free).


Because there are roughly 200,000,000 jobs that pay well and have good benefits just waiting to be filled. Seriously what kind of loser ass slacker do you have to be to not find employment in the field you trained in? Especially now when the economy is doing so well.

/Degrees in Sociology & Anthropology and two associated internships with impeccable references from both, works in a crappy recording studio three days a week.
 
2014-03-04 07:16:18 PM

meyerkev: So anyone up for figuring out how much it would cost them to replace all of the cashiers with touchscreens?

Or at what point that automatic burger machine starts making a lot of sense?

Or at what point they're forced to pay $15/hour, so they fire all of their old employees and advertise for newer, better ones?*

Or at what point the entire business model goes away because a Big Mac costs $15?  (Note: Given that they have McD's in Norway, I'm much more prepared to bet on the above happening than these ones)

*Because Walmart wages get Walmart employees and Costco wages get Costco employees.  And the difference between those 2 things is ridiculously huge.


Here's the thing: if there's not an employee there, I'm going to steal shiat.
 
2014-03-04 07:16:30 PM

fuhfuhfuh: WhyteRaven74: meyerkev: If a touchscreen runs $14/hour, and a worker runs $15 (+ payroll tax + all of the other employee costs), then it makes sense to switch over to touchscreens.

Not if it drives away your customers.

Jack-In-The-Box out by me has been trying out touch screen kiosks in conjunction with counter workers. They tend to operate at a speech volume meant to shame anyone ordering food. Also, they are actually slower to use than just placing the order with an actual person thanks to all of the forced pauses for screen refreshes and upsells. Though the fact that they get little-to-no use is a good way to jump to the head of the line for your order should there be a line.


Sounds like those slow-as-fark self-checkout kiosks at the grocery store.
 
2014-03-04 07:18:08 PM

jso2897: machines are cheaper.


They're really cheap when you don't have any customers.
 
2014-03-04 07:18:49 PM

ScaryBottles: /Degrees in Sociology & Anthropology and two associated internships with impeccable references from both, works in a crappy recording studio three days a week.


Ohhh...that explains it. You should have gotten a degree in Engineering.

*geek face*
 
2014-03-04 07:20:09 PM
awesome.

it's rare nowadays that you see workers getting an opportunity to unite and stand up for what they deserve.

I applaud you Mc Striker.
 
2014-03-04 07:20:10 PM
McD's and similar companies had a long run of low wages due to higher paying jobs for adult age workers in other industries. Since every corporation is racing to leave the country to produce goods or racing to the bottom in wages ,Then the cheap profit is over for the service industry.

They have a huge amount of funds available to them to lobby.If they want to fix the economy they need to buy back these politicians and make them fix these trade agreements and get better long term financial industry regulations passed. They have a choice to spend money one way or the other.
 
2014-03-04 07:20:28 PM

WhyteRaven74: jso2897: machines are cheaper.

They're really cheap when you don't have any customers.


And when they don't work.  Take a look at the automatic check outs at grocery stores.  They have at least two people on hand at all times running tech support on the damn things because they're a pain in the ass to use and have to constantly be reset every time someone accidently bumps an item off the bagging tray.
 
2014-03-04 07:21:13 PM

Summercat: No, I seriously see that posted. It seems to be incorrect - the study done that showed that was... not properly done and ought to be discarded. Apparently the true labor cost of a Big Mac is like 1.28.


Yeah, I thought that had to be sarcasm since it's been debunked so much.

Labor counts for about 20% of the cost of a meal at McDo's. Raising the price of labor would MAYBE increase that cost by 25%. That's absolutely not an issue. The average price of a meal there is about $5-6 so the increase would be about 20-30 cents if not less. Hardly crippling.
 
2014-03-04 07:22:19 PM

Flappyhead: WhyteRaven74: jso2897: machines are cheaper.

They're really cheap when you don't have any customers.

And when they don't work.  Take a look at the automatic check outs at grocery stores.  They have at least two people on hand at all times running tech support on the damn things because they're a pain in the ass to use and have to constantly be reset every time someone accidently bumps an item off the bagging tray.


Not if Mickie Dees teams up with

4vector.com
 
2014-03-04 07:23:08 PM

Flappyhead: WhyteRaven74: jso2897: machines are cheaper.

They're really cheap when you don't have any customers.

And when they don't work.  Take a look at the automatic check outs at grocery stores.  They have at least two people on hand at all times running tech support on the damn things because they're a pain in the ass to use and have to constantly be reset every time someone accidently bumps an item off the bagging tray.


"Please place the item in the bag"

*places item in the bag*

"Please wait for an attendant"

/Avoids those things unless the lines is too long at the other checkout lines
 
2014-03-04 07:23:43 PM

ginandbacon: Raising the price of labor would MAYBE increase that cost by 25%. That's absolutely not an issue.


It is to this guy:

www.globalnerdy.com
 
2014-03-04 07:26:23 PM
Translation: We might give some token raises for the PR, kind of like how we added a bunch of "healthy" food that nobody orders.
 
2014-03-04 07:27:02 PM

Mrtraveler01: Flappyhead: WhyteRaven74: jso2897: machines are cheaper.

They're really cheap when you don't have any customers.

And when they don't work.  Take a look at the automatic check outs at grocery stores.  They have at least two people on hand at all times running tech support on the damn things because they're a pain in the ass to use and have to constantly be reset every time someone accidently bumps an item off the bagging tray.

"Please place the item in the bag"

*places item in the bag*

"Please wait for an attendant"

/Avoids those things unless the lines is too long at the other checkout lines


Or the self-scan wands they have at Stop & Shop. You know, the ones that get left on shelves all the time before people just walk out with their food?  (And that's assuming they scanned everything anyway, which 90% of people who use them don't.)

\pretty sure the shrinkage from them is why S&S left NH
 
2014-03-04 07:29:38 PM

meyerkev: whidbey: meyerkev: So anyone up for figuring out how much it would cost them to replace all of the cashiers with touchscreens?.

I'm noting that you could be spending the exact same energy justifying why workers should be paid living wages instead of giving a 3rd hand to the social conservatives who want a low wage, low growth economy.

Just saying.

So it's a legitimate question.

If a touchscreen runs $14/hour, and a worker runs $15 (+ payroll tax + all of the other employee costs), then it makes sense to switch over to touchscreens.

And then the 299.99 Million Americans who don't work at McDonald's get to enjoy slightly cheaper burgers.

So it's a net gain.

I'm trying to get a feel for the current ceiling on this particular low-skill job's pay.

/Seriously, kiddos, get born with High g, and pay farking attention in school.  It might not be useful now, but 30 years from now, you'll be one of the 20% with a job that isn't fellating the 20%.
//Though given that the Asians are paying $100/hour for private tutoring, fellating might not be so bad.
///And may god have mercy on you if you have an IQ from 80-110.   Less than 80 was already screwed, 110+ is super-smart and can leverage computers, 80-110 is about to get shafted (but that's OK, because most of the stuff that the 110+ make is basically free).


Local grocery chains have self-service checkout lanes with touch screens. I've been in stores where there are over 10 self-service lanes open and just two registers with a checker. There might be a few people checking out via the self-service lanes, but there will be a tailback up the frozen food aisle of people lined up for the human checkers.

When you factor in that $14 to run a touch screen, factor in the lost business from people who want a human cashier. And automating food cooking and food delivery is a bit ambitious (and most certainly costly) at this point. That's an awful lot of retooling, plus an awful lot of bad will-generation to get out of paying a living wage that would cost consumers just a tiny fraction more than they are currently paying.
 
2014-03-04 07:29:40 PM
The richest people and corporations in the history of humanity are allowed--even encouraged--to say "Don't you think you're making enough already?" to their minimum wage subsistence workers.  That's just business. When the working people ask the same question in return, it's Class Warfare, a socialist apocalypse, and a plot to enslave us all (as what...minimum wage workers?).

Why we don't see nightly news footage of CEOs strangled with the entrails of CFOs is beyond me.  It shouldn't still boggle my mind by this point, but it does.
 
2014-03-04 07:29:48 PM

meyerkev: whidbey: meyerkev: So anyone up for figuring out how much it would cost them to replace all of the cashiers with touchscreens?.

I'm noting that you could be spending the exact same energy justifying why workers should be paid living wages instead of giving a 3rd hand to the social conservatives who want a low wage, low growth economy.

Just saying.

So it's a legitimate question.

If a touchscreen runs $14/hour, and a worker runs $15 (+ payroll tax + all of the other employee costs), then it makes sense to switch over to touchscreens.

And then the 299.99 Million Americans who don't work at McDonald's get to enjoy slightly cheaper burgers.

So it's a net gain.

I'm trying to get a feel for the current ceiling on this particular low-skill job's pay.

/Seriously, kiddos, get born with High g, and pay farking attention in school.  It might not be useful now, but 30 years from now, you'll be one of the 20% with a job that isn't fellating the 20%.
//Though given that the Asians are paying $100/hour for private tutoring, fellating might not be so bad.
///And may god have mercy on you if you have an IQ from 80-110.   Less than 80 was already screwed, 110+ is super-smart and can leverage computers, 80-110 is about to get shafted (but that's OK, because most of the stuff that the 110+ make is basically free).


Or we admit the simple truth that, currently, there are more people than jobs and food scarcity is essentially a myth in the first world.

/but no, because then ZOMG SOSHULISM!!!
//which people love by any other name...
 
2014-03-04 07:30:25 PM

meyerkev: /Seriously, kiddos, get born with High g, and pay farking attention in school. It might not be useful now, but 30 years from now, you'll be one of the 20% with a job that isn't fellating the 20%.
//Though given that the Asians are paying $100/hour for private tutoring, fellating might not be so bad.
///And may god have mercy on you if you have an IQ from 80-110. Less than 80 was already screwed, 110+ is super-smart and can leverage computers, 80-110 is about to get shafted (but that's OK, because most of the stuff that the 110+ make is basically free).


Except for, you know. The constant gutting of science grants in this country, the fact that there is an entire party that feels we shouldn't have government funding of research, the fact that we're intentionally driving DOWN the wages of skilled americans with H1B visas, that sort of thing...
 
2014-03-04 07:30:53 PM

DeaH: And automating food cooking and food delivery is a bit ambitious


You mean you didn't order a whole sack full of half-toasted bun crowns?
 
2014-03-04 07:31:01 PM

meyerkev: So anyone up for figuring out how much it would cost them to replace all of the cashiers with touchscreens?



Oh God. Please no. "Self-serve" lines, WITH the markup---

s23.postimg.org
 
2014-03-04 07:33:36 PM

Orange-Pippin: meyerkev: So anyone up for figuring out how much it would cost them to replace all of the cashiers with touchscreens?


Oh God. Please no. "Self-serve" lines, WITH the markup---

[s23.postimg.org image 300x300]


"Please place your burger in the bag"
 
2014-03-04 07:37:17 PM

sinner4ever: They have a huge amount of funds available to them to lobby.If they want to fix the economy they need to buy back these politicians and make them fix these trade agreements and get better long term financial industry regulations passed.


They can help fix the economy by paying their employees well.
 
2014-03-04 07:37:57 PM

WhyteRaven74: jso2897: machines are cheaper.

They're really cheap when you don't have any customers.


i18.photobucket.com
Yup.
 
2014-03-04 07:38:23 PM
i.imgur.com

Guess what? They still have cashiers AND people who make sandwiches. Because as amazing as technology is, automating the entire process of taking an order to giving you food and maintaining speed and quality people are willing to pay money on isn't even close to there yet. A touch screen to say "Okay, I want pickles and mustard on my burger" is easy. THAT IS WHAT CASHIERS AT MCDONALDS USE. Shaping patties and assembling sandwiches is easy. The entire middle part where the order is assembled and presented to the customer? Robots can't do that economically. We aren't close to there yet. They aren't smart or dexterous enough to support a remotely varied and changing menu and customers with specific requests.

There's a reason grocery stores and Target have six self-scan stations and dozens of check-out aisles with cashiers, and it's the same reason Sheetz has people at the cash register and behind the counter even though you can order with the touch screen.
 
2014-03-04 07:40:15 PM

Lochsteppe: The richest people and corporations in the history of humanity are allowed--even encouraged--to say "Don't you think you're making enough already?" to their minimum wage subsistence workers.  That's just business. When the working people ask the same question in return, it's Class Warfare, a socialist apocalypse, and a plot to enslave us all (as what...minimum wage workers?).

Why we don't see nightly news footage of CEOs strangled with the entrails of CFOs is beyond me.  It shouldn't still boggle my mind by this point, but it does.


Because we are a civilized country. We keep our poor out of sight--and badmouth them.
 
2014-03-04 07:40:36 PM

WhyteRaven74: jso2897: machines are cheaper.

They're really cheap when you don't have any customers.


On the list of things I appreciate about fast food joints, interfacing with the person behind the counter isn't on it.  At their very best, they aren't noticeable at all, and it's a sliding scale down from there.  I'd rather they install machines and pay the people in the back more to get the order made correctly.

Frankly, I'd welcome a machine at CVS because they seem to have a corporate policy to hire the dumbest and slowest people on the planet.
 
2014-03-04 07:40:45 PM

Mrtraveler01: Flappyhead: WhyteRaven74: jso2897: machines are cheaper.

They're really cheap when you don't have any customers.

And when they don't work.  Take a look at the automatic check outs at grocery stores.  They have at least two people on hand at all times running tech support on the damn things because they're a pain in the ass to use and have to constantly be reset every time someone accidently bumps an item off the bagging tray.

"Please place the item in the bag"

*places item in the bag*

"Please wait for an attendant"

/Avoids those things unless the lines is too long at the other checkout lines


Guess what all but one will be if minimum wage is $15?  Part of having a grocery store chain as an architectural client is doing things like swapping out manned stations for self checkout aisles.  The grocery chains will have no problem getting rid of their cashiers if it means not having any more increased overhead than necessary.  

Chains like Albertsons and Kroger operate on tiny profit margins.  1-2% isn't unusual.  5% on their busiest weeks.  Fast food has higher margins but what about child care?  Who wants to see those costs double?  Or other low wage jobs that not many people pay attention to?  Janitors, apprentices in any trade.  Costs everywhere will go up.  It's not just fast food.
 
2014-03-04 07:40:59 PM
How can yall not figure out how to use the self checkouts? With those things, I'm faster than a normal cashier unless I have some not usual produce I have to look up. That shiat is cake.
 
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