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(CNN)   S&P 500 closes at a new record high today, which when all is said and done, your 401K gained a $1.75 today (minus $0.50 in broker admin fees, of course)   (money.cnn.com) divider line 58
    More: Obvious, Ukraine, small caps, DIA, year to date, Ruger, ETF, Radioshack Corp., stock indexes  
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333 clicks; posted to Business » on 04 Mar 2014 at 7:35 PM (33 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-04 04:32:21 PM  
What is this 401K thou speakest of?
 
2014-03-04 04:43:28 PM  
I'm so glad I cashed out my 401K early and put all my money into gold and moat shovels.
 
2014-03-04 04:46:24 PM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: What is this 401K thou speakest of?


It's like the coffee can of cash you keep in the back yard
 
2014-03-04 04:48:55 PM  

ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha: Grand_Moff_Joseph: What is this 401K thou speakest of?

It's like the coffee can of cash you keep in the back yard


oh, now I get it!  :D


/well played
 
2014-03-04 04:56:45 PM  

ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha: Grand_Moff_Joseph: What is this 401K thou speakest of?

It's like the coffee can of cash you keep in the back yard


Except that a bunch of guys with expensive suits and cocaine problems know where it is and can dig it up and make it disappear at any time.
 
2014-03-04 06:12:15 PM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: What is this 401K thou speakest of?


It's a distant-future version of Warhammer. Personally I avoid it because Games Workshop is the devil.
 
2014-03-04 06:14:09 PM  

Calmamity: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha: Grand_Moff_Joseph: What is this 401K thou speakest of?

It's like the coffee can of cash you keep in the back yard

Except that a bunch of guys with expensive suits and cocaine problems know where it is and can dig it up and make it disappear at any time.


Nah, that's too much work.  All they need is a mildly botched auto-trade executed by a server somewhere, and *POOF*, it's gone.
 
2014-03-04 06:31:55 PM  
My retirement diet just improved to Iams with realistically meat-like chunks.
 
2014-03-04 06:34:12 PM  

Calmamity: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha: Grand_Moff_Joseph: What is this 401K thou speakest of?

It's like the coffee can of cash you keep in the back yard

Except that a bunch of guys with expensive suits and cocaine problems know where it is and can dig it up and make it disappear at any time.


I personally only buy index ETFs for this reason.
 
2014-03-04 07:35:05 PM  
The average 401k has $90K in it. Farkers are not representative.
 
2014-03-04 07:56:49 PM  
Joke's on you, my 10K shares of weed stock make $48 today.  WHOOHOO!  I'm going to party tonight!

/lousy potheads not smoking enough
 
2014-03-04 08:08:42 PM  

GreenAdder: Grand_Moff_Joseph: What is this 401K thou speakest of?

It's a distant-future version of Warhammer. Personally I avoid it because Games Workshop is the devil.


This thread is unclean.  It must be purged.
 
2014-03-04 08:15:57 PM  
If you are paying fees on a fund indexed to the S&P 500, you might even be too stupid for Fark.
 
2014-03-04 08:18:02 PM  

b2theory: Calmamity: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha: Grand_Moff_Joseph: What is this 401K thou speakest of?

It's like the coffee can of cash you keep in the back yard

Except that a bunch of guys with expensive suits and cocaine problems know where it is and can dig it up and make it disappear at any time.

I personally only buy index ETFs for this reason.


This.

aaronx: If you are paying fees on a fund indexed to the S&P 500, you might even be too stupid for Fark.


And this.

Apparently subby's average annual return is potato.
 
2014-03-04 08:22:18 PM  

aaronx: If you are paying fees on a fund indexed to the S&P 500, you might even be too stupid for Fark.


And how little must you have in your 401k to make only $1.75 on a day like today?
 
2014-03-04 08:24:24 PM  

Calmamity: Except that a bunch of guys with expensive suits and cocaine problems know where it is and can dig it up and make it disappear at any time.


Man. It's like I want to start investing for my future while I'm still young enough for it to make a difference. Then I read stuff like that. And suddenly the coffee can looks more appealing.
 
2014-03-04 08:33:37 PM  

aaronx: If you are paying fees on a fund indexed to the S&P 500, you might even be too stupid for Fark.


What no-fee index funds exist? I'm not talking about transaction fees, but passive management and licensing fees.
 
2014-03-04 08:44:42 PM  

Fonaibung: aaronx: If you are paying fees on a fund indexed to the S&P 500, you might even be too stupid for Fark.

What no-fee index funds exist? I'm not talking about transaction fees, but passive management and licensing fees.


Principal dings me for $32 a year on a $100K account. I'll skip one nice meal and call it even.
 
2014-03-04 08:58:53 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: Joke's on you, my 10K shares of weed stock make $48 today.  WHOOHOO!  I'm going to party tonight!

/lousy potheads not smoking enough

In this economy? We're doing what we can dammit!
 
2014-03-04 09:07:52 PM  
The admin fees on my 401k aren't anywhere near 28.5%, it like in the tens of dollars per year.
 
2014-03-04 09:13:22 PM  

aaronx: Fonaibung: aaronx: If you are paying fees on a fund indexed to the S&P 500, you might even be too stupid for Fark.

What no-fee index funds exist? I'm not talking about transaction fees, but passive management and licensing fees.

Principal dings me for $32 a year on a $100K account. I'll skip one nice meal and call it even.


He's asking what your expense ratio is on your index fund. Can you name what funds (or maybe just one) you've put your money into?
 
2014-03-04 09:25:27 PM  

Chagrin: aaronx: Fonaibung: aaronx: If you are paying fees on a fund indexed to the S&P 500, you might even be too stupid for Fark.

What no-fee index funds exist? I'm not talking about transaction fees, but passive management and licensing fees.

Principal dings me for $32 a year on a $100K account. I'll skip one nice meal and call it even.

He's asking what your expense ratio is on your index fund. Can you name what funds (or maybe just one) you've put your money into?



Don't know if aaronx can, but I can:  Fidelity U.S. Equity Index Commingled Pool Class 2.  Gross expense ratio of 0.02% (not 2%, 0.02%) per year.
 
2014-03-04 09:32:56 PM  
An S&P 500 index fund or ETF should have fees under 0.5%.  It's an auto-pilot fund, there's no strategy or planning involved.  For most investors, at least 50% of their stock investments should be in one of these.
 
2014-03-04 09:33:07 PM  
All my money is in pogs and beanie babies.
 
2014-03-04 09:39:07 PM  

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: An S&P 500 index fund or ETF should have fees under 0.5%.  It's an auto-pilot fund, there's no strategy or planning involved.  For most investors, at least 50% of their stock investments should be in one of these.


Vanguard Total Stock Market ETF (VTI): Net expense ratio 0.05%
 
2014-03-04 09:39:42 PM  
Jokes on you, I use mostly index funds. Only non-index funds I use are for international stock in my 401k (no index funds available) and one of the balanced funds in my Roth is a whopping .28%

/I like to keep all my accounts the same allocation for ease of rebalancing
 
2014-03-04 09:47:01 PM  

Fonaibung: What no-fee index funds exist? I'm not talking about transaction fees, but passive management and licensing fees.


None that I'm aware of, but there's PLENTY of index funds with fees below 0.1%, which for all practical purposes is zero. The Vanguard S&P 500 fund is $5 per $10,000 invested and that is automatically a nice stable, diversified (at least among American equities) portfolio. Add an equally low-cost bond fund, an international fund, and buy some real estate (your house) and call it a day. That's all the financial planning most people need, and yet they still spend so much time trading in and out of individual stocks paying $10-$25 each transaction based on whatever Jim Cramer said last night.
 
2014-03-04 09:58:39 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: Joke's on you, my 10K shares of weed stock make $48 today.  WHOOHOO!  I'm going to party tonight!

/lousy potheads not smoking enough


www.quickmeme.com
 
2014-03-04 10:11:48 PM  

GreenAdder: Calmamity: Except that a bunch of guys with expensive suits and cocaine problems know where it is and can dig it up and make it disappear at any time.

Man. It's like I want to start investing for my future while I'm still young enough for it to make a difference. Then I read stuff like that. And suddenly the coffee can looks more appealing.


Check out Betterment.com (can't link from phone). They have a lot of nice features and it's pretty hands off. My Roth IRA has returned 12-14% a year for the 3 years I've been with them.
 
2014-03-04 10:12:22 PM  

machoprogrammer: Jokes on you, I use mostly index funds. Only non-index funds I use are for international stock in my 401k (no index funds available) and one of the balanced funds in my Roth is a whopping .28%

/I like to keep all my accounts the same allocation for ease of rebalancing


You guys are all idiots. If you invest in actively managed funds with 2%+ expense ratios, front AND back end loads, and 12b-1 fees, you can biatch on fark about how much Wall Street is stealing from you. And that intangible benefit is worth so much more than your silly compounded net return mumbo jumbo.
 
2014-03-04 10:29:12 PM  

dukeblue219: Fonaibung: What no-fee index funds exist? I'm not talking about transaction fees, but passive management and licensing fees.

None that I'm aware of, but there's PLENTY of index funds with fees below 0.1%, which for all practical purposes is zero. The Vanguard S&P 500 fund is $5 per $10,000 invested and that is automatically a nice stable, diversified (at least among American equities) portfolio. Add an equally low-cost bond fund, an international fund, and buy some real estate (your house) and call it a day. That's all the financial planning most people need, and yet they still spend so much time trading in and out of individual stocks paying $10-$25 each transaction based on whatever Jim Cramer said last night.


If you're paying more than $10 a transaction fee with your online brokerage you're doing it wrong.
 
2014-03-04 10:29:58 PM  
encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com

S&P 500 index fund:  0.04% annual fee
 
2014-03-04 10:35:04 PM  

Dr.Zom: All my money is in pogs and beanie babies.


Sounds more reliable than Wall St.

Gambling with stocks is fine, for those that wish to play the game.  But America never should have accepted giving our financial hope for retirement to a gaggle of foxes, then assuming that they will not rob the henhouse behind our backs.
 
2014-03-04 10:36:05 PM  
Thanks Obama!
 
2014-03-04 10:37:04 PM  

relaxitsjustme: dukeblue219: Fonaibung: What no-fee index funds exist? I'm not talking about transaction fees, but passive management and licensing fees.

None that I'm aware of, but there's PLENTY of index funds with fees below 0.1%, which for all practical purposes is zero. The Vanguard S&P 500 fund is $5 per $10,000 invested and that is automatically a nice stable, diversified (at least among American equities) portfolio. Add an equally low-cost bond fund, an international fund, and buy some real estate (your house) and call it a day. That's all the financial planning most people need, and yet they still spend so much time trading in and out of individual stocks paying $10-$25 each transaction based on whatever Jim Cramer said last night.

If you're paying more than $10 a transaction fee with your online brokerage you're doing it wrong.


That's part of my point - my parents still call up "their broker" to make trades (not all that often though). No idea what it costs, but I'm sure there are plenty of people getting ripped off on transaction fees online or by phone. Hell I still talk to folks who are convinced you have to buy stock in 100 share lots.
 
2014-03-04 10:48:57 PM  
$5409 for the day, evenly split between mutual funds and self-directed investments. The latter are heavily influenced by Warren (buy and hold) Buffett .
 
2014-03-04 11:00:07 PM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: Dr.Zom: All my money is in pogs and beanie babies.

Sounds more reliable than Wall St.

Gambling with stocks is fine, for those that wish to play the game.  But America never should have accepted giving our financial hope for retirement to a gaggle of foxes, then assuming that they will not rob the henhouse behind our backs.


What do you think the manager of your parents' pension funds did with the money over the years?

The only real difference was that if the pension fund came up short, it was the employer's responsibility to make up the shortage. If you remember to fund your 401k adequately with good investments and leave it alone to grow, it's better than a pension. But if you're retarded then it's probably not. Just too bad the country is full of retards.
 
2014-03-05 01:44:05 AM  

sigdiamond2000: I'm so glad I cashed out my 401K early and put all my money into gold and moat shovels.


I put mine in Bitcoins
 
2014-03-05 01:58:58 AM  
my 401k gained 15% over the last year

DAMN YOU OBAMA!
 
2014-03-05 04:28:43 AM  

GreenAdder: Calmamity: Except that a bunch of guys with expensive suits and cocaine problems know where it is and can dig it up and make it disappear at any time.

Man. It's like I want to start investing for my future while I'm still young enough for it to make a difference. Then I read stuff like that. And suddenly the coffee can looks more appealing.


Not sure how old you are but having a long time frame is a big part of being able to have the money you'll need when the time comes to retire.  Obviously investment returns are important, keeping fees at reasonable levels is important but the money you put away today will be able to grow a lot longer than money you put away 20 years from now.

The single worst thing you can do is to do nothing...if you're 25 you've got 40 years worth of time to save money and to make mistakes and recover from those mistakes.  If you're 55 you've got 10 years and you'd better pray that the markets go up every single day. 

The other thing to keep in mind is that depending on your tax/income situation there are a lot of ways to take advantage of the tax codes...not sure what your situation is but I imagine that you can probably benefit in multiple ways from existing tax laws simply by investing.
 
2014-03-05 06:10:51 AM  
Right now would be a good time to sell
Bears are coming out of hibernation just about now.
Including a rather large hungry one that recently woke up with a hangover.
"over there"
 
2014-03-05 07:42:51 AM  
GreenAdder:

Man. It's like I want to start investing for my future while I'm still young enough for it to make a difference. Then I read stuff like that. And suddenly the coffee can looks more appealing.

Start now and ignore the daily financial news. They shape things to attract readers, not to provide investment guidance. Focus on the long term. I started my 401K and IRAs thirty years ago, and experienced a one day drop of 25% (the 87 crash), the recession during the Gulf war, the dotcom crash and subsequent stagnation in the early 2000's, and of course the 2008 financial crisis that also drove my 401K down 25% that year. In addition look at all of the wars, terrorism, and other things that caused people to panic. With all of that my 401K has done very well with only 4 index funds (Large Company, Small Company, International, Stable Bond).

With the IRAs I took a little more risk but again with low cost funds (it pays being an Boglehead) and they have done well. A little lifestyle sacrifice to put away for your future can make a big difference over a long run.

Nothing is guaranteed, but if you have at least 25-30 years of runway to save you can withstand a lot of the daily risks and do well. It may not be all that you want, but it is better than nothing. With less than 25  years to save it becomes more dicey.  I feel sorry for those with 10 years or less to save, it will be very difficult to recover from market downturns.
 
2014-03-05 07:52:15 AM  

aaronx: If you are paying fees on a fund indexed to the S&P 500, you might even be too stupid for Fark.


A place I worked for changed the company that managed the 401k.  I had an S&P 500 index fund with a .25% fee for most of my 401k.  The closest option was an managed fund that attempted to match S&P 500 performance with a 4% fee.  All the fund options had loads and fees.  Yeah, it sucked.
 
2014-03-05 07:56:16 AM  

pdieten: Grand_Moff_Joseph: Dr.Zom: All my money is in pogs and beanie babies.

Sounds more reliable than Wall St.

Gambling with stocks is fine, for those that wish to play the game.  But America never should have accepted giving our financial hope for retirement to a gaggle of foxes, then assuming that they will not rob the henhouse behind our backs.

What do you think the manager of your parents' pension funds did with the money over the years?

The only real difference was that if the pension fund came up short, it was the employer's responsibility to make up the shortage. If you remember to fund your 401k adequately with good investments and leave it alone to grow, it's better than a pension. But if you're retarded then it's probably not. Just too bad the country is full of retards.


I generally agree, and it's our only shot so we have no choice but to agree... however, I'm skeptical as to whether the relatively steady gains of 1950-2000 (in both stocks and real estate) are any indication of gains in 2000-2050. With globalization comes more volatility, and 20th century America enjoyed certain protections and conditions that were unsustainable. It seems like now more than ever your investments can be farked by anything bad happening in the world regardless of which country or industry, so there's no such thing as a "smart" choice unless you're a professional investor paying attention full time.

Then again, the 20th century had a Cold War and no internet. So we'll see how this plays out.
 
2014-03-05 08:52:50 AM  

AngryDragon: Vanguard Total Stock Market ETF (VTI): Net expense ratio 0.05%


I have some money in that one, too.  Most of the ETFs I've invested in have expense ratios around there.  And yesterday, despite the $1.75 claim in the headline, I made close to $250.  I expect a bit of a fire sale today where short-term investors bank their profits, but it was still a good day, and I'm in it for the long haul.

Muta: I had an S&P 500 index fund with a .25% fee for most of my 401k.  The closest option was an managed fund that attempted to match S&P 500 performance with a 4% fee.  All the fund options had loads and fees.  Yeah, it sucked.


I own shares in an S&P index fund (ITOT, S&P 1500) that has an expense ratio of .07%.
 
2014-03-05 09:27:13 AM  

Muta: aaronx: If you are paying fees on a fund indexed to the S&P 500, you might even be too stupid for Fark.

A place I worked for changed the company that managed the 401k.  I had an S&P 500 index fund with a .25% fee for most of my 401k.  The closest option was an managed fund that attempted to match S&P 500 performance with a 4% fee.  All the fund options had loads and fees.  Yeah, it sucked.


Which company did they switch you to?
 
2014-03-05 09:45:30 AM  
And this should be required reading for anyone who lets someone else manage their retirement fund.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/business-economy-financial-c ri sis/retirement-gamble/the-retirement-gamble-facing-us-all/

tl;dr You're getting screwed over. Manage your own retirement fund.
 
2014-03-05 09:58:02 AM  

wombatsrus: Nothing is guaranteed, but if you have at least 25-30 years of runway to save you can withstand a lot of the daily risks and do well. It may not be all that you want, but it is better than nothing. With less than 25  years to save it becomes more dicey.  I feel sorry for those with 10 years or less to save, it will be very difficult to recover from market downturns.


Which is exactly why pensions were such a valuable thing, and why their absence is eventually going to come back and bite everyone in the ass, one way or another.
 
2014-03-05 10:30:10 AM  
scontent-b-mia.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2014-03-05 12:17:39 PM  

kkinnison: my 401k gained 15% over the last year

DAMN YOU OBAMA!


Just remember, stocks were at a then-record high in 2008, too.

Crediting the president for the stock market is a really stupid and fanboy thing to do.
 
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