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(The Raw Story)   Here's a job you should really only take if all the janitorial positions at your local adult bookstore are already filed: MtGox, which recently lost $340 million of depositor's Bitcoins, opens a call center to field customer complaints   (rawstory.com) divider line 253
    More: Fail, bitcoins, customer complaint, deposits  
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3437 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Mar 2014 at 12:45 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-04 03:05:35 PM  

ikanreed: LesserEvil: Again, people who do not understand cryptos seem to think they can speak about it.

Dummy: I understand crypography just damned fine.  I was alleging the basic skills necessary to "protect yourself" are out of the grasp of the majority of people making the currency doomed to continually face scenarios like this one or shrink down to the core believers.


"cryptos" generally refers to CryptoCurriencies.

Since the basic skills needed are to copy a file to a drive, we don't buy the latter point.
 
2014-03-04 03:12:33 PM  

LesserEvil: I find it odd that so many people have an irrational hatred of cryptocurrency, as if BTC broke into their houses and pissed on their cornflakes every morning for the last year.


Point of order: it's "pissed in their corn flakes." In, not on.

People don't like crypto currencies because most people don't like playing "let's pretend" with their wealth. That's not an indictment against them, as the same applies to other, non-commodities, forms of trading, such as stocks and bonds. History, of course, demonstrates that pretend wealth is often more powerful than actual wealth.

Looked at in that light, the only thing "new" about CCs is the application of technology that goes with them - technology that has proven time and again vulnerable to the unscrupulous, and sooner or later will result in a rather destructive fraud event. Again, just like its non-technological counterparts. What will be more interesting is to see how virtual currencies shake out after the event.
 
2014-03-04 03:12:38 PM  

LasersHurt: Smackledorfer: The only supported advantage you have mentioned in this entire thread is transaction fees, and that is only an advantage over credit cards.

Do you know ANYTHING?


LasersHurt:  diagreeing as if your opinion were fact.


And you wonder why I accuse you of projection.

Just how high do you believe a debit transaction fee is? Why would a similar process not be involved when, as you've already said, regulation and security is added to the bitcoin end of things.

LasersHurt: You are literally just ignoring what everyone says


There is that projection again. You've cherry picked every single comment of mine that you've responded to, pretending things I said were not said at all.


At this point you either have no argument to make, have no ability to explain your own thinking, or are too lazy to do so. The latter would be perfectly acceptable if you weren't getting your panties in a bunch that other people aren't making detailed enough arguments for you.  Its funny that you set a higher bar for other posters than you do for yourself.
 
2014-03-04 03:13:43 PM  

LasersHurt: ikanreed: LesserEvil: Again, people who do not understand cryptos seem to think they can speak about it.

Dummy: I understand crypography just damned fine.  I was alleging the basic skills necessary to "protect yourself" are out of the grasp of the majority of people making the currency doomed to continually face scenarios like this one or shrink down to the core believers.

"cryptos" generally refers to CryptoCurriencies.

Since the basic skills needed are to copy a file to a drive, we don't buy the latter point.


Fine, I understand the mechanics of bitcoins just fine too, Christ.  There is an encrypted data structure that is a wrapper for unique identifiers assigned and tracked through transactions by a distributed network of voluntary nodes, where each step involves a new private key encryption(belonging to the de facto holder, if not de jure) of the previous structure's entire envelope.  That private key allows decryption of enough information to allow a transaction to occur.

This is also not hard to understand.  There are some other relevant activities I don't care about the technical details of, like mining, splitting, tumbling, etc, but I understand the point of just fine.

I don't see what point blind accusations of ignorance is.  It just makes you sound like a teenager going "You just don't get it, dad!"
 
2014-03-04 03:15:26 PM  

Smackledorfer: mdeesnuts: It is anonymous and decentralized


Which does what for me? I'm not trying troll here, I'm honestly trying to figure out why this is an advantage.


Well, the anonymous part has to do with privacy. If you want a lecture on that just type "if you're not doing anything wrong" in the next NSA thread.

The decentralized part means you don't have the governement (or The Fed) monkeying with/controlling the currency. Of course people keep trying to monkey with Bitcoin, but it seems to be doing OK.

A quick search brought up this. You can see what the creators of bitcoin thought were good reasons to use it.
 
2014-03-04 03:15:57 PM  

Smackledorfer: Just how high do you believe a debit transaction fee is? Why would a similar process not be involved when, as you've already said, regulation and security is added to the bitcoin end of things.


You do not know the difference between a Bitcoin Transaction and an Exchange transaction. One has a fee for security, the other is a matter of network function. It is not a percentage. It is not large. It is not comparable to credit card fees.

You know nothing of what you speak. You need to do the research instead of trying to demand some person on the internet answer each of your questions, each more off-base than the last.

Educate yourself. It is no longer my job, I wash my hands of it.
 
2014-03-04 03:16:20 PM  

Carousel Beast: LesserEvil: I find it odd that so many people have an irrational hatred of cryptocurrency, as if BTC broke into their houses and pissed on their cornflakes every morning for the last year.

Point of order: it's "pissed in their corn flakes." In, not on.

People don't like crypto currencies because most people don't like playing "let's pretend" with their wealth. That's not an indictment against them, as the same applies to other, non-commodities, forms of trading, such as stocks and bonds. History, of course, demonstrates that pretend wealth is often more powerful than actual wealth.

Looked at in that light, the only thing "new" about CCs is the application of technology that goes with them - technology that has proven time and again vulnerable to the unscrupulous, and sooner or later will result in a rather destructive fraud event. Again, just like its non-technological counterparts. What will be more interesting is to see how virtual currencies shake out after the event.


I applaud you, sir.  It IS national grammar day, and I'm happy to see people are out there keeping prepositions in their place.  You get 2 bitcoins.  Or I can send it to you through paypal or your amazon account - whichever has the lowest transaction fees.
 
2014-03-04 03:17:50 PM  

ikanreed: I don't see what point blind accusations of ignorance is.


You kept acting like copying a file was too hard for users.

You were also the first to start calling people "True Believers."

It kind of seems/seemed like you were pretty ignorant of the concepts - it's not totally "blind."
 
2014-03-04 03:18:48 PM  

LasersHurt: You kept acting like copying a file was too hard for users.


Yes, if you've ever met users, you'd know this.
 
2014-03-04 03:20:06 PM  

ikanreed: LasersHurt: You kept acting like copying a file was too hard for users.

Yes, if you've ever met users, you'd know this.


I have. But the same user who can't handle a file copy would also just drop 50 bucks from their wallet and walk off, or give it to a Nigerian scammer. At some point you can't account for all of human stupidity.
 
2014-03-04 03:22:01 PM  

mdeesnuts: Smackledorfer: mdeesnuts: It is anonymous and decentralized


Which does what for me? I'm not trying troll here, I'm honestly trying to figure out why this is an advantage.

Well, the anonymous part has to do with privacy. If you want a lecture on that just type "if you're not doing anything wrong" in the next NSA thread.

The decentralized part means you don't have the governement (or The Fed) monkeying with/controlling the currency. Of course people keep trying to monkey with Bitcoin, but it seems to be doing OK.

A quick search brought up this. You can see what the creators of bitcoin thought were good reasons to use it.


Bitcoin is decentralized, yet 80% of existing coins are held by just 1% of users.

Heck, half of the coins are held by less than 1000 user accounts (and how many are owned by the same person?)

How the hell is this supposed to challenge the US Dollar when the user base is so small? Bitcoin will be lucky to challenge Discover card at this rate.
 
2014-03-04 03:22:45 PM  

dumbobruni: How the hell is this supposed to challenge the US Dollar when the user base is so small?


This doesn't feel like a silly question?
 
2014-03-04 03:22:56 PM  

LasersHurt: Since the basic skills needed are to copy a file to a drive, we don't buy the latter point.


And remember a password.

And make sure you don't accidentally install any key-logger.

Posts like this are common on Reddit:
BEWARE: BTC -e asks me to unlock 2 factor authorization after my logins fail and then subsequently all my coins are stolen
 
2014-03-04 03:23:12 PM  
Yeah, actually the other things you said need replies too.

LasersHurt: You were also the first to start calling people "True Believers."


Yeah, I didn't invent that term, and gosh-darn-it that accusation has nothing to do with understanding.  I can understand, say, Marxism, accuse someone of saying how communist revolution will end class struggle of being a "true believer" while having read and understand the communist manifesto and it's core tenets just fine.  You can do that with anyone whose belief in something exceeds all reason.

LasersHurt: It kind of seems/seemed like you were pretty ignorant of the concepts - it's not totally "blind."


Yeah, here we are, faced with the basic facts that I do understand the concepts just fine, you just go "Yep, it seemed that way because you criticized them".
 
2014-03-04 03:23:26 PM  

MythDragon: Sin_City_Superhero: And that's why I ONLY use gold doubloons.

[pcgmedia.com image 850x478]

I conduct all trade in military grade surplus ammunition


Don't you hate it when you forget to save and hit the wrong key burning people up and you're like "man I really owned those guys, oh god damnit!"
 
2014-03-04 03:25:05 PM  

ikanreed: Yeah, actually the other things you said need replies too.

LasersHurt: You were also the first to start calling people "True Believers."

Yeah, I didn't invent that term, and gosh-darn-it that accusation has nothing to do with understanding.  I can understand, say, Marxism, accuse someone of saying how communist revolution will end class struggle of being a "true believer" while having read and understand the communist manifesto and it's core tenets just fine.  You can do that with anyone whose belief in something exceeds all reason.

LasersHurt: It kind of seems/seemed like you were pretty ignorant of the concepts - it's not totally "blind."

Yeah, here we are, faced with the basic facts that I do understand the concepts just fine, you just go "Yep, it seemed that way because you criticized them".


Surely you understand how time works? You seemed ignorant because of the things you said. After clarifying you do not sound as ignorant, of course.

Still use names to dismiss people, but we've all got personal failings. I'm a smartass.
 
2014-03-04 03:25:27 PM  
Bitcoin. It's like regular dollars, only ten times more complicated.
I wonder why it hasn't caught on.
 
2014-03-04 03:27:22 PM  
I have worked in call centers.  I've done newspaper sales, cell phone tech support, DirecTV installation and customer support.

I have also worked at what is arguably one of the seediest adult bookstores west of the Mississippi, where I was regularly robbed, assaulted, forced to be complicit in methamphetamine dealing, had to clean jizz and AIDS-infected needles and oceans of piss with islands of feces out of the arcade every single night, worked every Christmas and Thanksgiving, received constant perverted phone calls and unwanted advances, got called a f*gott by passing cars every time I swept the parking lot, had to smile and be professional to pedophiles (which kind of fell apart towards the end and led to me finally leaving), had to smile and be professional to the police, and even encountered a human corpse or two.

I held out at that adult bookstore job for over four damn years.

Couldn't stomach any of the call center ones for more than 12 months.
 
2014-03-04 03:27:48 PM  

LasersHurt: You do not know the difference between a Bitcoin Transaction and an Exchange transaction. One has a fee for security, the other is a matter of network function. It is not a percentage. It is not large. It is not comparable to credit card fees.


You didn't address "Why would a similar process not be involved when, as you've already said, regulation and security is added"?
 
2014-03-04 03:29:15 PM  

LasersHurt: Surely you understand how time works? You seemed ignorant because of the things you said. After clarifying you do not sound as ignorant, of course.


Oh yeah, please, highlight the gross oversight I made in mechanics.  The posts I made earlier made it clear I thought there was a spectrum from being forced to be technically competent at all times to protect your money, or putting your trust in a third party that can have catastrophic failure out of your control.  That assertion reflects exactly zero ignorance of the currency.

I fall back on the assertion that you're a true believer, in that you clearly and implicitly think that anyone who thinks bitcoin is a bad idea "just doesn't get it".  This behavior is exactly in line with true believers of every stripe.
 
2014-03-04 03:34:42 PM  

impaler: LasersHurt: You do not know the difference between a Bitcoin Transaction and an Exchange transaction. One has a fee for security, the other is a matter of network function. It is not a percentage. It is not large. It is not comparable to credit card fees.

You didn't address "Why would a similar process not be involved when, as you've already said, regulation and security is added"?


Because when you are exchanging bitcoin directly the security is a part of the process. The security issue most people worry about is at currency exchanges, most of which create their own fees to cover security. Regulation will probably follow.

When using bitcoin as the currency, you only pay network transaction fees, which are very small and flat.

Teal Deer the costs are different because the nature of transactions are different.

ikanreed: Oh yeah, please, highlight the gross oversight I made in mechanics.


The first thing you did is dismiss anyone who disagreed with you by namecalling. That alone makes people distrust your understanding and objectivity.

ikanreed: I fall back on the assertion that you're a true believer, in that you clearly and implicitly think that anyone who thinks bitcoin is a bad idea "just doesn't get it".


No, no. Just you. You're confusing "my opinion on everyone" with "my opinion on you." I've spoken to several people quite plainly about things like the pretty useless nature of the "work" behind the currency, etc. I only see Bitcoin for what it is - a novel, useful exchange system based on open ledgers and open software.
 
2014-03-04 03:35:01 PM  

LasersHurt: dumbobruni: How the hell is this supposed to challenge the US Dollar when the user base is so small?

This doesn't feel like a silly question?


And not only is the user base small, they have very little incentives to spend them.

As Bitcoin goes up in value, the hoarding will only get worse. And without spending it, how can it be used as a medium for payments?
 
2014-03-04 03:35:04 PM  

impaler: LasersHurt: You do not know the difference between a Bitcoin Transaction and an Exchange transaction. One has a fee for security, the other is a matter of network function. It is not a percentage. It is not large. It is not comparable to credit card fees.

You didn't address "Why would a similar process not be involved when, as you've already said, regulation and security is added"?


Oh I see the problem. LasersHurt doesn't understand real money transactions.

The "fee for security" and for "network function" are all tied together.
 
2014-03-04 03:36:23 PM  

ikanreed: LasersHurt: Surely you understand how time works? You seemed ignorant because of the things you said. After clarifying you do not sound as ignorant, of course.

Oh yeah, please, highlight the gross oversight I made in mechanics.  The posts I made earlier made it clear I thought there was a spectrum from being forced to be technically competent at all times to protect your money, or putting your trust in a third party that can have catastrophic failure out of your control.  That assertion reflects exactly zero ignorance of the currency.

I fall back on the assertion that you're a true believer, in that you clearly and implicitly think that anyone who thinks bitcoin is a bad idea "just doesn't get it".  This behavior is exactly in line with true believers of every stripe.


You obviously dont understand how it works. Study it out!
 
2014-03-04 03:38:50 PM  

dumbobruni: LasersHurt: dumbobruni: How the hell is this supposed to challenge the US Dollar when the user base is so small?

This doesn't feel like a silly question?

And not only is the user base small, they have very little incentives to spend them.

As Bitcoin goes up in value, the hoarding will only get worse. And without spending it, how can it be used as a medium for payments?


Dunno. They'll need to figure that out. I would think that's more of a problem when it's new, because early adopters hold large amounts. If it reaches ubiquity it's kind of pointless if you don't spend it.

impaler: impaler: LasersHurt: You do not know the difference between a Bitcoin Transaction and an Exchange transaction. One has a fee for security, the other is a matter of network function. It is not a percentage. It is not large. It is not comparable to credit card fees.

You didn't address "Why would a similar process not be involved when, as you've already said, regulation and security is added"?

Oh I see the problem. LasersHurt doesn't understand real money transactions.

The "fee for security" and for "network function" are all tied together.


I explained that there are two different things in play; I don't know why you don't understand this, and I particularly don't understand why you think it's valid to say "the costs would be the same." Bitcoin /= current transaction methods.

Why? Based on what?
 
2014-03-04 03:40:20 PM  

LasersHurt: Because when you are exchanging bitcoin directly the security is a part of the process. The security issue most people worry about is at currency exchanges, most of which create their own fees to cover security. Regulation will probably follow.

When using bitcoin as the currency, you only pay network transaction fees, which are very small and flat.


No one is talking about fees on exchanges. They're talking about using a secure system where if you buy something, and the seller doesn't respond, you have a means to recoup your money.

A system that doesn't require you to boot to a dedicated clean install of BSD to manage your coins.

If I buy from overstock.com with bitcoins, I can't get my money back. I just get company credit. If I buy with real money, I can get it back.
 
2014-03-04 03:41:33 PM  

impaler: LasersHurt: Because when you are exchanging bitcoin directly the security is a part of the process. The security issue most people worry about is at currency exchanges, most of which create their own fees to cover security. Regulation will probably follow.

When using bitcoin as the currency, you only pay network transaction fees, which are very small and flat.

No one is talking about fees on exchanges. They're talking about using a secure system where if you buy something, and the seller doesn't respond, you have a means to recoup your money.

A system that doesn't require you to boot to a dedicated clean install of BSD to manage your coins.

If I buy from overstock.com with bitcoins, I can't get my money back. I just get company credit. If I buy with real money, I can get it back.


You asked me about transaction fees. That has nothing to do with Overstock's return policy. Or BSD.

You can refund someone BTC if you want, it's easy.
 
2014-03-04 03:42:33 PM  

LasersHurt: I explained that there are two different things in play; I don't know why you don't understand this, and I particularly don't understand why you think it's valid to say "the costs would be the same." Bitcoin /= current transaction methods.

Why? Based on what?


The costs won't be the same. They will be higher. It's harder to get spent bitcoins back than it is to get spent dollars. That costs more to insure, resulting in higher fees.
 
2014-03-04 03:43:23 PM  

impaler: LasersHurt: I explained that there are two different things in play; I don't know why you don't understand this, and I particularly don't understand why you think it's valid to say "the costs would be the same." Bitcoin /= current transaction methods.

Why? Based on what?

The costs won't be the same. They will be higher. It's harder to get spent bitcoins back than it is to get spent dollars. That costs more to insure, resulting in higher fees.


Based on "I made this up just now" ?
 
2014-03-04 03:43:57 PM  

LasersHurt: You can refund someone BTC if you want, it's easy.


Than why doesn't overstock do that?

(Answer: the price volatility makes it prohibitive)
 
2014-03-04 03:47:13 PM  

LasersHurt: impaler: LasersHurt: I explained that there are two different things in play; I don't know why you don't understand this, and I particularly don't understand why you think it's valid to say "the costs would be the same." Bitcoin /= current transaction methods.

Why? Based on what?

The costs won't be the same. They will be higher. It's harder to get spent bitcoins back than it is to get spent dollars. That costs more to insure, resulting in higher fees.

Based on "I made this up just now" ?


No. Based on math. Unlike dollar transactions, bitcoin transactions are non-reversible. This means there is greater counter-party risk. Greater risk costs more to insure.
 
2014-03-04 03:47:24 PM  

impaler: LasersHurt: You can refund someone BTC if you want, it's easy.

Than why doesn't overstock do that?

(Answer: the price volatility makes it prohibitive)


You realize now that you're purposely veering away from your earlier claims right? You asked about the fees.

Tell you what, you tell me what it costs to send $.12 worth of BTC from the US to the Ukraine, then $12 Million. Then calculate the fees for any variety of bank transactions for the same thing.
 
2014-03-04 03:48:00 PM  

impaler: No. Based on math.


I look forward to your math.
 
2014-03-04 03:48:03 PM  

LasersHurt: The first thing you did is dismiss anyone who disagreed with you by namecalling. That alone makes people distrust your understanding and objectivity.


I see, so your feelings were hurt?  I'm sorry I hurt your feelings.
 
2014-03-04 03:50:50 PM  
Came for Clerks, leaving extremely disappointed.
 
2014-03-04 03:51:17 PM  

mdeesnuts: Of course people keep trying to monkey with Bitcoin, but it seems to be doing OK.


It seems fairly volatile for something that is superior in the monkeying-around department.
 
2014-03-04 03:52:51 PM  

Smackledorfer: The only supported advantage you have mentioned in this entire thread is transaction fees, and that is only an advantage over credit cards.


Ok, here's another. If I visit a store and pay with my debit card, I must trust the store to safeguard my information.  If you shopped at Target late last year, you know that is not always a safe bet.  Target stores your card number, your name, your PIN, etc.  With this information, nefarious people can access your bank account.  The fact that you stand to be reimbursed for that theft is little consolation to people who's mortgage payment bounced due to their accounts being siphoned.

Let's compare that to a Bitcoin payment scenario. I visit a retailer (not Target yet, but a Bitcoin accepting retailer). I make my purchase by snapping a QR code with my phone, tap my password in, and accept the charge.  The retailer gets ONLY that payment. They do not get any information that would allow them (or a nefarious hacker) to access any further funds.
 
2014-03-04 03:53:34 PM  

dumbobruni: Bitcoin is decentralized, yet 80% of existing coins are held by just 1% of users.

Heck, half of the coins are held by less than 1000 user accounts (and how many are owned by the same person?)

How the hell is this supposed to challenge the US Dollar when the user base is so small? Bitcoin will be lucky to challenge Discover card at this rate.


A shot in the dark here, but I'd imagine as the number of users grow the wealth concentration would decrease. It'd' be kind of cool to be able to use them at Walgreens or Dollar General like you can PayPal now if it becomes truly mainstream (like it is starting to in some places).

Maybe not though. It's still in the experimental stage in my eyes and I enjoy the ebb and flow of watching it play out. Stuff like MtGox was bound to happen and will happen again. Bitcoin users will demand better security (or vet their 'bankers' more) or they'll stop using it.

If the marketplace that accpets BTC grows enough I may start mining just to participate.
 
2014-03-04 03:53:59 PM  

LasersHurt: Tell you what, you tell me what it costs to send $.12 worth of BTC from the US to the Ukraine, then $12 Million. Then calculate the fees for any variety of bank transactions for the same thing.


Around $.1 to $.5, depending on how much transaction fee you use.

Remittance. You've finally brought up something bitcoin is good for. Too bad it isn't really an issue for most people.

Now am I ever going to send millions of dollars without some sort of insurance? Fuk no!
 
2014-03-04 03:58:34 PM  
imageshack.com
 
2014-03-04 03:58:59 PM  

Chameleon: Debeo Summa Credo: But why does the "productive power and financial potential" of a country give any more value to a fiat currency? If nobody will accept my $20 bill, how do I trade it in for $20 worth of GDP? If i bring it to down to the treasury will Jacob Lew give me some steel and wheat? How much steel and wheat?

Yeah, but the same can be said for gold, silver, shiny beads, giant stone coins, etc.  No currency has any value beyond what you can trade it for.  That's why I started my petition to back the US dollar with potatoes.

/yes, I know that gold has use in electronics but that is not traditionally what its value is based on.  Its value is based on "ooh, shiny!"


Not quite.  The BBC did a very interesting piece on why gold is viewed as a currency.  http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-25255957
 
2014-03-04 03:59:42 PM  

Belias: Ok, here's another. If I visit a store and pay with my debit card, I must trust the store to safeguard my information.  If you shopped at Target late last year, you know that is not always a safe bet.  Target stores your card number, your name, your PIN, etc.  With this information, nefarious people can access your bank account.  The fact that you stand to be reimbursed for that theft is little consolation to people who's mortgage payment bounced due to their accounts being siphoned.

Let's compare that to a Bitcoin payment scenario. I visit a retailer (not Target yet, but a Bitcoin accepting retailer). I make my purchase by snapping a QR code with my phone, tap my password in, and accept the charge.  The retailer gets ONLY that payment. They do not get any information that would allow them (or a nefarious hacker) to access any further funds.


Yeah, the fact they don't lose any money is little consolation for the security breach. Now take bitcoin, where if someone hacks your phone they get all your money and you never get it back.

Security advantage bitcoin!

This is why you idiots are called "true believers."

"But but but, the underlying protocol is secure!"

imgs.xkcd.com
 
2014-03-04 04:00:39 PM  

LasersHurt: Smackledorfer: Just how high do you believe a debit transaction fee is? Why would a similar process not be involved when, as you've already said, regulation and security is added to the bitcoin end of things.

You do not know the difference between a Bitcoin Transaction and an Exchange transaction. One has a fee for security, the other is a matter of network function. It is not a percentage. It is not large. It is not comparable to credit card fees.

You know nothing of what you speak. You need to do the research instead of trying to demand some person on the internet answer each of your questions, each more off-base than the last.

Educate yourself. It is no longer my job, I wash my hands of it.


The person who doesn't understand is you. You want to discuss the cost of doing business while ignoring all the costs of doing business.

With US Dollars I give up things to my bank so that they will take on the cost of transactions, which they then charge businesses for, who pass some of that cost on to me.

With Bitcoins, the cost of doing business includes converting the dollar to the coin (or mining, which if I understand correctly is going to put me at a loss unless I have a special rig for it), then moving wallet to wallet, and then the business converting back to the dollar.  Both my end prior to the purchase and the business' end prior to the cash out result in a risk from the volatility of the bitcoins value itself.

But sure, if the ONLY thing you want to discuss is person A pulling a bitcoin out of their wallet and putting it in the wallet of person B, and if that is all you meant, then fair enough. You are correct on that count. So now we have:
1. It is novel.
2. One portion of the costs involved with using it is superior.

Great, what a wonderful currency, and certainly something I and others shouldn't be mocking.


Now I believe the other point you made was speed.  What is the speed advantage, to either me or a business, over a credit/debit/gift card/paypal transaction? Don't forget to weigh it against the time of going from $ to Bitcoin to $ for me and the business.  I know you'd want to ignore that, but as long as the value isn't stable, no business would wish to sit on the coins, and if they are sitting on the coins, then the gains in speed relative to a credit payment seems irrelevant.
 
2014-03-04 04:01:33 PM  
Thats just straight financial darwinism right there folks.  For instance, I've just liquidated my entire pension to play off-shore on-line Poker cuz its a known fact that foreigners don't know diddly about playing American Poker.

The rich get richer sheeple.
 
2014-03-04 04:02:32 PM  

Smackledorfer: The person who doesn't understand is you.


Uh huh.
 
2014-03-04 04:03:26 PM  
Pyramid scheme.
 
2014-03-04 04:04:33 PM  

LasersHurt: Smackledorfer: The person who doesn't understand is you.

Uh huh.


So we're finally all in agreement.
 
2014-03-04 04:06:22 PM  

LasersHurt: impaler: No. Based on math.

I look forward to your math.


I've yet to see any of yours.

Again, it is fine to agree to disagree without turning threads into a research paper, but not if one party is doing what you are here. You provide nothing yourself, but set a high bar for everyone else.  Even when you are the one making a claim or assertion, your default setting is 'I am right because I said it, and they are wrong until they present me with a doctoral thesis'
 
2014-03-04 04:06:26 PM  

impaler: LasersHurt: Smackledorfer: The person who doesn't understand is you.

Uh huh.

So we're finally all in agreement.


I have no interest in teaching him the very basics about Bitcoin. He wants me to answer his questions, but they're always partially invalid because they rely on a misunderstanding of the concept. Trying to explain that means he just goes "you can't answer the questions ha I win."

You've not been a peach either, but at least you seem smart enough to talk about it.
 
2014-03-04 04:07:06 PM  

Smackledorfer: LasersHurt: impaler: No. Based on math.

I look forward to your math.

I've yet to see any of yours.


https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transaction_fees
 
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