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(The Raw Story)   Here's a job you should really only take if all the janitorial positions at your local adult bookstore are already filed: MtGox, which recently lost $340 million of depositor's Bitcoins, opens a call center to field customer complaints   (rawstory.com) divider line 253
    More: Fail, bitcoins, customer complaint, deposits  
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3437 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Mar 2014 at 12:45 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-04 01:14:37 PM  

Pumpernickel bread: How the fark do you lose a virtual currency?  I don't understand that.  I can understand how someone can steal you cash or gold, but this?


Someone threw a torn up chaos orb allover over their servers.

I still can't get over the fact that people actually trusted a bank named after Magic with anything resembling money.
 
2014-03-04 01:16:26 PM  
Fark Headline: "MtGox, which recently lost $340 million of depositor's Bitcoins"

Article Headline: "MtGox opens call center after $500 million Bitcoin loss"

ChipNASA: Shiatcoin


Heh, maybe we can redo their logo to represent the name change:

members.accountantsofficeonline.com

Oh, wait...
 
2014-03-04 01:16:44 PM  

spamalope: Does it tie things together a bit to mention that the heist may have been perpetrated by a government agency? They could discredit competing currency, steal from people supporting it and use the stolen currency for clandestine operations.

Hell, they could have used the proceeds from the first bitcoin theft to buy zero days exploits to pull this one off. Now they've got a self funding continuous attack with far less hard work and without exposing any security weaknesses a three letter agency already knows about.

Agencies that can create Stuxnet or Uroburos could certainly manage this. Wealthy private organizations like the Fed might see value in it too.


Well, it beats the hell out of selling missiles to the Iranians or letting mercenaries sell  cocaine to inner city gangs as a way to finance the "Black Budget"
 
2014-03-04 01:16:52 PM  

ArkPanda: That's why on every investment fund ad they carefully state "NOT FEDERALLY INSURED.  MAY LOSE VALUE."


Popular trick in Oregon among local TV station ad editors is to "stomp" the disclaimer end of an Oregon Lottery ad on the end of a financial services commercial. "Lottery games are based on chance and should be played for entertainment only, not for investment purposes."
 
2014-03-04 01:17:31 PM  

Msol: Debeo Summa Credo: hardinparamedic: Debeo Summa Credo: Not that I buy into or understand bitcoins, but what does it mean to you to have a currency "backed by the GDP of a country"?

Because it's not just a piece of paper backed by a finite resource such as Gold. IANAE, but the production power and financhial potential of a first world country seems a little more safer a bet than a barter commodity who's only value is what the community itsself places on it, and which encourages hoarding due to it's numerical cap.

But yeah. I'm still going to point and laugh.

But why does the "productive power and financial potential" of a country give any more value to a fiat currency? If nobody will accept my $20 bill, how do I trade it in for $20 worth of GDP? If i bring it to down to the treasury will Jacob Lew give me some steel and wheat? How much steel and wheat?

I think we both view bitcoins as a "bigger idiot theory" type alternative currency. The only thing that gives them value is the demand of other idiots for them.

But conceptually, the dollar is not dissimilar. It's just that there are alot more "idiots" out there who use dollars and have been using dollars for a very very long time. Therefore we can be much more confident that there will always be a fellow idiot to which to trade our intrinsically worthless dollars to for tangible goods.

The only thing IMO that gives dollar bills a floor value is that the US government can require tax payments to be made in dollars. So by requiring tax payments in these worthless pieces of paper, the government can actually force people to need them, giving them a non-zero value.

Yeah but the U.S. Gov't only accepts USD for taxes. That alone is enough to give the currency value. That's much more than what BitCoin has going for it.


...Did you read his post?
 
2014-03-04 01:18:17 PM  

spamalope: Does it tie things together a bit to mention that the heist may have been perpetrated by a government agency? They could discredit competing currency, steal from people supporting it and use the stolen currency for clandestine operations.

Hell, they could have used the proceeds from the first bitcoin theft to buy zero days exploits to pull this one off. Now they've got a self funding continuous attack with far less hard work and without exposing any security weaknesses a three letter agency already knows about.

Agencies that can create Stuxnet or Uroburos could certainly manage this. Wealthy private organizations like the Fed might see value in it too.


The sign of a great con is when the mark is absolutely convinced someone else is at fault.
 
2014-03-04 01:18:49 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: But why does the "productive power and financial potential" of a country give any more value to a fiat currency? If nobody will accept my $20 bill, how do I trade it in for $20 worth of GDP? If i bring it to down to the treasury will Jacob Lew give me some steel and wheat? How much steel and wheat?


Yeah, but the same can be said for gold, silver, shiny beads, giant stone coins, etc.  No currency has any value beyond what you can trade it for.  That's why I started my petition to back the US dollar with potatoes.

/yes, I know that gold has use in electronics but that is not traditionally what its value is based on.  Its value is based on "ooh, shiny!"
 
2014-03-04 01:18:49 PM  

poot_rootbeer: I wonder how many drug traffickers and child pornographers will be caught by this sting.


Chagrin: Virtual currency highly involved with the legal drug trade? What's the lifespan of an employee that screws those people over?


"Bitcoin" is no more "involved" with the drug trade than "email" is.
 
2014-03-04 01:19:38 PM  
3 years in a call center got me PTSD so no thanks. OK, slight exaggeration, only one hell of an anxiety disorder.
 
2014-03-04 01:21:38 PM  
Call center for Mt. Gox, no problem, respond to EVERY caller with this... "Awwww, you're imaginary money went missing.... too bad..." then hang up.
 
2014-03-04 01:21:48 PM  

nijika: Everyone, please just keep in mind that Bitcoins and MtGox are two different things, and that you're probably using the tulip mania reference all wrong.


Tulip mania? Did you say tulip? Where are they and how can I get some?! Show me!! SHOW ME THE TULIPS!!!!
 
2014-03-04 01:22:42 PM  
I'm sure the mafia and the yakuza will be calling.
 
2014-03-04 01:23:10 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: The only thing IMO that gives dollar bills a floor value is that the US government can require tax payments to be made in dollars. So by requiring tax payments in these worthless pieces of paper, the government can actually force people to need them, giving them a non-zero value.


Given that dollar bills are legal tender for debts, and there is a lot of money-owing going on in America, I think it's more than just the fact I have to pay taxes in dollars that gives a dollar a "value". The value of a dollar is more than a mass delusion. It's tied to property rights that are defined and enforced by the government.
Of course, for the libertarian-minded, that means fark-all, as property rights are rights of man and not things governments have anything to say about. But rational people, we know we aren't going to wake up one day and find no one believes in our dollars anymore.
 
2014-03-04 01:23:18 PM  

hardinparamedic: Belias: Good thing Bernie Madoff 's customers had their deposits denominated in USD, so they magically got all their money back, right? Blame the company, not the currency.

Well, it's also a good thing that I can pretty much count on not getting a call from my bank telling me my USD are now worthless and missing, isn't it?


That is true. Your bank is not going to call you and tell you that. Your bank is not going to call you.
 
2014-03-04 01:25:15 PM  
I nver worked in a call center, but once when the radio statin I worked for changed formats I was working the "complaint line" with a couple others. I was swore at for months, it is part of what helped me to hate a lot of people. I think the worst thing I was called was a racist.
 
2014-03-04 01:26:13 PM  

hardinparamedic: rumpelstiltskin: Mocking people who lost their money trading bitcoins sounds like fun. And I could practice my Indian accent. "I am being Rupert from Des Moines. Dez Moyns. How may I be of assist to you today?"

[blogs.suntimes.com image 850x478]

THANK YOU FOR CALLING MtGOX. THIS IS PEGGY! HOW CAN I BE HELPING YOU?


I swear if I ever have to work in a call center again, I am going to convince everyone on the floor to say their name is Peggy and speak in that accent.

Just for the lulz.

Once used a Kermit the Frog voice for few inbound tech support calls.  Manager caught me doing the in-bred hillbilly voice so that got stopped short.

For those who work in call centers, the other thing to do is pick a stupid word of the day.  This would be a word that should have NO BUSINESS being spoken during your call but you have to find a way to do so.  Bonus points for creativity.  Now the word does not have to be profane or vulgar.  Just inappropriate.  Like "Watermelon", "Aardvark", "Disco" or "Pantyhose" in a inbound technical support call center.

/mind is wandering today
//let's go ride bikes
 
2014-03-04 01:26:16 PM  
hardinparamedic: Well, it's also a good thing that I can pretty much count on not getting a call from my bank telling me my USD are now worthless and missing, isn't it?

Yes, just as I can count on my Bitcoins not to spontaneously go missing, because I have not chosen a "Magic, the Gathering" site to store them.  But to be sure, lemme check my accounts.  It seems the net effect of the MtGox failure on my Bitcoin balance was ... none.

It's clear that MtGox's customers are facing missing value - both in dollars and in Bitcoin.  I don't follow the "worthless" part of your statement.  By "worthless", do you mean "trading at $650 per Bitcoin?"
 
2014-03-04 01:28:17 PM  

MelGoesOnTour: Belias: Blame the company, not the currency.

No. It's correct to blame what you call "currency".


So, for the millions in US dollars that were also lost due to MtGox's incompetence, we should blame... the US dollar?
 
2014-03-04 01:28:23 PM  

Belias: I don't follow the "worthless" part of your statement. By "worthless", do you mean "trading at $650 per Bitcoin?"


I'll be impressed when you start flashing around ten grand wads of US dollars from your bitcoins.
 
2014-03-04 01:28:51 PM  
Give your real monies to THIS guy for ones & zeroes?
graphics8.nytimes.com

Yeah. He looks legit.
 
2014-03-04 01:28:59 PM  

Belias: hardinparamedic: Well, it's also a good thing that I can pretty much count on not getting a call from my bank telling me my USD are now worthless and missing, isn't it?

Yes, just as I can count on my Bitcoins not to spontaneously go missing, because I have not chosen a "Magic, the Gathering" site to store them.  But to be sure, lemme check my accounts.  It seems the net effect of the MtGox failure on my Bitcoin balance was ... none.

It's clear that MtGox's customers are facing missing value - both in dollars and in Bitcoin.  I don't follow the "worthless" part of your statement.  By "worthless", do you mean "trading at $650 per Bitcoin?"


Ooh, a true believer, I haven't seen one in the wild for a while.  Tell me, if the hard drive that had your .wallet crashed, how much would you have?
 
2014-03-04 01:30:34 PM  

ikanreed: Belias: hardinparamedic: Well, it's also a good thing that I can pretty much count on not getting a call from my bank telling me my USD are now worthless and missing, isn't it?

Yes, just as I can count on my Bitcoins not to spontaneously go missing, because I have not chosen a "Magic, the Gathering" site to store them.  But to be sure, lemme check my accounts.  It seems the net effect of the MtGox failure on my Bitcoin balance was ... none.

It's clear that MtGox's customers are facing missing value - both in dollars and in Bitcoin.  I don't follow the "worthless" part of your statement.  By "worthless", do you mean "trading at $650 per Bitcoin?"

Ooh, a true believer, I haven't seen one in the wild for a while.  Tell me, if the hard drive that had your .wallet crashed, how much would you have?


So long as he backed it up? Everything he had before.
 
2014-03-04 01:30:55 PM  
Sure.... it's "lost"

;)
 
2014-03-04 01:31:55 PM  
Bitcoin has been rising steadily, even today, on news that another online wallet was robbed (This time only about $615,000 worth).

The lessons:

* Some people are ignorant as hell and confuse MtGox with Bitcoin.
* Some people absolutely hate cryptocurrency without understanding what it is, or why it has value
* The money was stolen from MtGox because they did not provide proper security measures.
* Exchanges and online wallets are only as secure as the passwords used to secure them AND the security measures used to protect the data. This isn't a failing of Bitcoin, which can (and should) be kept in a personal wallet, rather than trusting an online exchange with it.
* Bitcoin isn't just for criminals. Many legitimate vendors accept bitcoin, like TigerDirect. In places like Cyprus and Greece, it is more secure than keeping your money in a bank, where the government regularly dips into people's accounts to line their own pockets.
* Bitcoin's value doesn't go up and down in wild swings. It isn't as stable as the US dollar, to be sure... and as difficulty in mining goes up, so will the value. but it's not like it's losing half its value overnight. MtGox's exchange rates were rigged at the end to try and devalue BTC, and it didn't work.

I can always count on a lot of herp-a-derp in these threads from the farkers who seem to really, really hate bitcoin with a passion, though they've had no experience with it, and for no real reason than their own unsubstantiated opinion that BTC is valueless. Clearly they are wrong - people exchange BTC for cash and services all the time now.

As for the criminal element - sure, there's the Silk Road nonsense, but that is only a part of it, and realistically, no more a part of it than what cash is to crime. That is to say... criminals will take advantage of any system they can. Is your money any safer in a debit account that you used to make a charge at Target last Christmas? We've also seen how effective the Silk Road was in not getting caught...
 
2014-03-04 01:32:42 PM  
Why is it that the people who call others "true believers" seem to have the least knowledge of the subject matter? Hmm.
 
2014-03-04 01:33:04 PM  

LasersHurt: ikanreed: Belias: hardinparamedic: Well, it's also a good thing that I can pretty much count on not getting a call from my bank telling me my USD are now worthless and missing, isn't it?

Yes, just as I can count on my Bitcoins not to spontaneously go missing, because I have not chosen a "Magic, the Gathering" site to store them.  But to be sure, lemme check my accounts.  It seems the net effect of the MtGox failure on my Bitcoin balance was ... none.

It's clear that MtGox's customers are facing missing value - both in dollars and in Bitcoin.  I don't follow the "worthless" part of your statement.  By "worthless", do you mean "trading at $650 per Bitcoin?"

Ooh, a true believer, I haven't seen one in the wild for a while.  Tell me, if the hard drive that had your .wallet crashed, how much would you have?

So long as he backed it up? Everything he had before.


That would be smart of hypothetical him.  Unless the backup was more exposed to theft.  Then that'd be bad.  The point I'm trying to make is that he's assuming the technical risks for himself, rather than making them vanish.  And that is beyond the casual user.  And the casual user is the most important user of a currency.  They're the ones that provide liquidity.
 
2014-03-04 01:34:05 PM  
Thank you for holding. You will be served as soon as a representative is available. Current hold time is three hundred thousand, four hours.
 
2014-03-04 01:36:03 PM  

ikanreed: LasersHurt: ikanreed: Belias: hardinparamedic: Well, it's also a good thing that I can pretty much count on not getting a call from my bank telling me my USD are now worthless and missing, isn't it?

Yes, just as I can count on my Bitcoins not to spontaneously go missing, because I have not chosen a "Magic, the Gathering" site to store them.  But to be sure, lemme check my accounts.  It seems the net effect of the MtGox failure on my Bitcoin balance was ... none.

It's clear that MtGox's customers are facing missing value - both in dollars and in Bitcoin.  I don't follow the "worthless" part of your statement.  By "worthless", do you mean "trading at $650 per Bitcoin?"

Ooh, a true believer, I haven't seen one in the wild for a while.  Tell me, if the hard drive that had your .wallet crashed, how much would you have?

So long as he backed it up? Everything he had before.

That would be smart of hypothetical him.  Unless the backup was more exposed to theft.  Then that'd be bad.  The point I'm trying to make is that he's assuming the technical risks for himself, rather than making them vanish.  And that is beyond the casual user.  And the casual user is the most important user of a currency.  They're the ones that provide liquidity.


Which is why more companies are putting stronger systems in place. I prefer to keep mine offline and deal with it myself, but it's absolutely trivial to make a secure backup. You protect the key as well - the chances of "theft" are exceedingly low.

It's not perfect. If that's your takeaway, so be it.
 
2014-03-04 01:36:58 PM  

LesserEvil: Bitcoin has been rising steadily, even today, on news that another online wallet was robbed (This time only about $615,000 worth).

The lessons:

* Some people are ignorant as hell and confuse MtGox with Bitcoin.
* Some people absolutely hate cryptocurrency without understanding what it is, or why it has value
* The money was stolen from MtGox because they did not provide proper security measures.
* Exchanges and online wallets are only as secure as the passwords used to secure them AND the security measures used to protect the data. This isn't a failing of Bitcoin, which can (and should) be kept in a personal wallet, rather than trusting an online exchange with it.
* Bitcoin isn't just for criminals. Many legitimate vendors accept bitcoin, like TigerDirect. In places like Cyprus and Greece, it is more secure than keeping your money in a bank, where the government regularly dips into people's accounts to line their own pockets.
* Bitcoin's value doesn't go up and down in wild swings. It isn't as stable as the US dollar, to be sure... and as difficulty in mining goes up, so will the value. but it's not like it's losing half its value overnight. MtGox's exchange rates were rigged at the end to try and devalue BTC, and it didn't work.

I can always count on a lot of herp-a-derp in these threads from the farkers who seem to really, really hate bitcoin with a passion, though they've had no experience with it, and for no real reason than their own unsubstantiated opinion that BTC is valueless. Clearly they are wrong - people exchange BTC for cash and services all the time now.

As for the criminal element - sure, there's the Silk Road nonsense, but that is only a part of it, and realistically, no more a part of it than what cash is to crime. That is to say... criminals will take advantage of any system they can. Is your money any safer in a debit account that you used to make a charge at Target last Christmas? We've also seen how effective the Silk Road was in not getting ...


So how was the problem of colluding nodes chasing down the block chain solved? Or did you all just agree that isn't a problem?
 
2014-03-04 01:37:12 PM  
I didn't know there was such a thing as Bitcoin hate. Weird.

[stop liking things i dont like!.jpg]
 
2014-03-04 01:38:02 PM  
And that's why I ONLY use gold doubloons.
 
2014-03-04 01:38:13 PM  

LasersHurt: ikanreed: LasersHurt: ikanreed: Belias: hardinparamedic: Well, it's also a good thing that I can pretty much count on not getting a call from my bank telling me my USD are now worthless and missing, isn't it?

Yes, just as I can count on my Bitcoins not to spontaneously go missing, because I have not chosen a "Magic, the Gathering" site to store them.  But to be sure, lemme check my accounts.  It seems the net effect of the MtGox failure on my Bitcoin balance was ... none.

It's clear that MtGox's customers are facing missing value - both in dollars and in Bitcoin.  I don't follow the "worthless" part of your statement.  By "worthless", do you mean "trading at $650 per Bitcoin?"

Ooh, a true believer, I haven't seen one in the wild for a while.  Tell me, if the hard drive that had your .wallet crashed, how much would you have?

So long as he backed it up? Everything he had before.

That would be smart of hypothetical him.  Unless the backup was more exposed to theft.  Then that'd be bad.  The point I'm trying to make is that he's assuming the technical risks for himself, rather than making them vanish.  And that is beyond the casual user.  And the casual user is the most important user of a currency.  They're the ones that provide liquidity.

Which is why more companies are putting stronger systems in place. I prefer to keep mine offline and deal with it myself, but it's absolutely trivial to make a secure backup. You protect the key as well - the chances of "theft" are exceedingly low.

It's not perfect. If that's your takeaway, so be it.


Yeah, this is why you get called "true believers".  It's because the currency's mechanics can never fail, they can only be failed.  It's a bit deluded.
 
2014-03-04 01:39:05 PM  

K3rmy: For those who work in call centers, the other thing to do is pick a stupid word of the day.  This would be a word that should have NO BUSINESS being spoken during your call but you have to find a way to do so.  Bonus points for creativity.  Now the word does not have to be profane or vulgar.  Just inappropriate.  Like "Watermelon", "Aardvark", "Disco" or "Pantyhose" in a inbound technical support call center.


"Let's see what version of the software you're running meow."
 
2014-03-04 01:39:57 PM  

ikanreed: Ooh, a true believer, I haven't seen one in the wild for a while.  Tell me, if the hard drive that had your .wallet crashed, how much would you have?


You caught me, I'm the only true believer left. In fact, I've been single-handedly propping up the exchange rate with my infinite stash of USD.

To answer your question, all of it (not that I have that much). They have this really cool new feature in modern operating systems called a "file copy".  You see, it makes a copy of a file, such as a Bitcoin wallet file.  You can "back up" files in lots of different ways, using several different kinds of media - or even "the cloud".  Neat stuff.  You should look into it, if you have any other files on your hard drive that you'd like to survive a hard drive crash.
 
2014-03-04 01:40:27 PM  

ikanreed: Yeah, this is why you get called "true believers".  It's because the currency's mechanics can never fail, they can only be failed.  It's a bit deluded.


What's deluded there? I pointed out the points of failure that exist. They are known. All things have points of failure.

Bitcoin is a protocol. Actual threats are mitigated through updates over time.

I find it absurdly childish that you can know so little about something, yet decide everyone who disagrees with you needs a snarky title. I've not even said that Bitcoin is this, that, or the other thing - no worship, no superlatives. It is precisely what it is. How that makes me a "true believer" I do not understand.
 
2014-03-04 01:40:30 PM  
All of our operator is busy.  Please remain on the line. You are a valued customer.  (  crappy distorted elevator music )  repeat as needed.
 
2014-03-04 01:41:12 PM  

mdeesnuts: I didn't know there was such a thing as Bitcoin hate. Weird.

[stop liking things i dont like!.jpg]


Some of us only hate the doofuses who go "it's the wave of the future, look at how much it's worth"
 
2014-03-04 01:42:22 PM  

ikanreed: LasersHurt: ikanreed: Belias: hardinparamedic: Well, it's also a good thing that I can pretty much count on not getting a call from my bank telling me my USD are now worthless and missing, isn't it?

Yes, just as I can count on my Bitcoins not to spontaneously go missing, because I have not chosen a "Magic, the Gathering" site to store them.  But to be sure, lemme check my accounts.  It seems the net effect of the MtGox failure on my Bitcoin balance was ... none.

It's clear that MtGox's customers are facing missing value - both in dollars and in Bitcoin.  I don't follow the "worthless" part of your statement.  By "worthless", do you mean "trading at $650 per Bitcoin?"

Ooh, a true believer, I haven't seen one in the wild for a while.  Tell me, if the hard drive that had your .wallet crashed, how much would you have?

So long as he backed it up? Everything he had before.

That would be smart of hypothetical him.  Unless the backup was more exposed to theft.  Then that'd be bad.  The point I'm trying to make is that he's assuming the technical risks for himself, rather than making them vanish.  And that is beyond the casual user.  And the casual user is the most important user of a currency.  They're the ones that provide liquidity.


Again, people who do not understand cryptos seem to think they can speak about it.

Your backups are password protected. You keep them secure, like you might bonds. If you lose a million dollars worth of bonds in a fire, who is going to replace them when you have no proof you owned them in the first place... "hypothetical case" of course.

It's actually pretty easy for casual users. Get Multibit as your wallet client. Make password-protected backups to a USB flash drive and keep in a fire safe. Gee, that wasn't hard at all. Transactions I've done (small time, I have less than $100 in BTC right now) have been quick and simple. I bought some stuff on Bitmit.net, but that's been down for a few months. Ultimately, it was as easy as doing a PayPal transaction.
 
2014-03-04 01:44:15 PM  

Belias: MelGoesOnTour: Belias: Blame the company, not the currency.

No. It's correct to blame what you call "currency".

So, for the millions in US dollars that were also lost due to MtGox's incompetence, we should blame... the US dollar?


MtGox didn't lose the US dollars on their exchange. They lost their bitcoin.

This might have something to do with bitcoin's decentralized means of being able to be sent through the Internet to psudo-anonymous addresses, without any means for reversal.
 
2014-03-04 01:45:27 PM  
The only trouble is, they pay you in Bitcoins
 
2014-03-04 01:45:57 PM  

rumpelstiltskin: So how was the problem of colluding nodes chasing down the block chain solved? Or did you all just agree that isn't a problem?


I think the term you are looking for is "colliding" - and I believe other exchanges aren't suffering from this issue. MtGox might have been the victim of an insider, or the victim of an automated protocol that didn't check.

I'm not going to say their are/won't be issues with BTC in the future. Some newer cryptos are trying to solve some of the networking issues, but major theft that exploits a vulnerability in transactions shouldn't happen before somebody notices.
 
2014-03-04 01:49:04 PM  

LesserEvil: ikanreed: LasersHurt: ikanreed: Belias: hardinparamedic: Well, it's also a good thing that I can pretty much count on not getting a call from my bank telling me my USD are now worthless and missing, isn't it?

Yes, just as I can count on my Bitcoins not to spontaneously go missing, because I have not chosen a "Magic, the Gathering" site to store them.  But to be sure, lemme check my accounts.  It seems the net effect of the MtGox failure on my Bitcoin balance was ... none.

It's clear that MtGox's customers are facing missing value - both in dollars and in Bitcoin.  I don't follow the "worthless" part of your statement.  By "worthless", do you mean "trading at $650 per Bitcoin?"

Ooh, a true believer, I haven't seen one in the wild for a while.  Tell me, if the hard drive that had your .wallet crashed, how much would you have?

So long as he backed it up? Everything he had before.

That would be smart of hypothetical him.  Unless the backup was more exposed to theft.  Then that'd be bad.  The point I'm trying to make is that he's assuming the technical risks for himself, rather than making them vanish.  And that is beyond the casual user.  And the casual user is the most important user of a currency.  They're the ones that provide liquidity.

Again, people who do not understand cryptos seem to think they can speak about it.

Your backups are password protected. You keep them secure, like you might bonds. If you lose a million dollars worth of bonds in a fire, who is going to replace them when you have no proof you owned them in the first place... "hypothetical case" of course.

It's actually pretty easy for casual users. Get Multibit as your wallet client. Make password-protected backups to a USB flash drive and keep in a fire safe. Gee, that wasn't hard at all. Transactions I've done (small time, I have less than $100 in BTC right now) have been quick and simple. I bought some stuff on Bitmit.net, but that's been down for a few months. Ultimately, it was as easy as ...


It's fun to watch you people continue to live in fantasyland.
 
2014-03-04 01:49:07 PM  

ikanreed: DrKillPatient: Second bitcoin site bites the dust.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101463888

"But that one was tiny.  It's doesn't count."
"What about Mt Gox?"
"Mount gox is just one site, it doesn't represent a trend!!!"
"What about other major exchanges having smaller breakins"
"BITCOINS ARE FOREVER LALALALALA, JUST BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT SAFE IN REALITY DOESN'T MEAN THE THEORY IS BAD"


I like the argument that this actually helps the bitcoin market, since there are less in circulation.  Now who wants step right up and bet the farm on unicorn farts?
 
2014-03-04 01:49:17 PM  
Is it just me, or is Bitcoin the real life currency modeled after Eve online.  Pretty much anything goes and if you are smart enough to steal it, kudos to you.
 
2014-03-04 01:49:43 PM  

LesserEvil: * Exchanges and online wallets are only as secure as the passwords used to secure them AND the security measures used to protect the data.


And personal wallets are only as secure as your computer. Imagine if everyone that has ever managed to install a trojan, or have their personal system hacked, losses their entire bank account in the process, with no means of recovery.


* Bitcoin's value doesn't go up and down in wild swings.

The hell it doesn't.
 
2014-03-04 01:49:44 PM  

ikanreed: Some of us only hate the doofuses who go "it's the wave of the future, look at how much it's worth"


Nah. Too much effort expended.

So really. What's the catch? If you don't use Bitcoin what's your angle?
 
2014-03-04 01:53:08 PM  

rumpelstiltskin: Debeo Summa Credo: The only thing IMO that gives dollar bills a floor value is that the US government can require tax payments to be made in dollars. So by requiring tax payments in these worthless pieces of paper, the government can actually force people to need them, giving them a non-zero value.

Given that dollar bills are legal tender for debts, and there is a lot of money-owing going on in America, I think it's more than just the fact I have to pay taxes in dollars that gives a dollar a "value". The value of a dollar is more than a mass delusion. It's tied to property rights that are defined and enforced by the government.
Of course, for the libertarian-minded, that means fark-all, as property rights are rights of man and not things governments have anything to say about. But rational people, we know we aren't going to wake up one day and find no one believes in our dollars anymore.


It's usable for debts that are denominated in dollars. Just like it can be used to buy stuff. But there is nothing that dictates that stuff has to be exchanged for dollars, if the sellers don't find value in dollars. Similarly, if demand for dollars goes away, new loans won't be denominated in them because noone will want them.

Ill grant you that while old dollar denominated debt is outstanding it does provide another floor as people will need dollars to pay for old debt, albeit temporary.
 
2014-03-04 01:57:03 PM  

ikanreed: mdeesnuts: I didn't know there was such a thing as Bitcoin hate. Weird.

[stop liking things i dont like!.jpg]

Some of us only hate the doofuses who go "it's the wave of the future, look at how much it's worth"


To be perfectly fair to everyone, geeks love it but they don't explain it very well.  It's also compounded by having a lot of press thrown at it, much of which is sensational or just plain wrong.  No wonder people don't get the value.  Believe me there's an effort underway to make it seem scary and unstable (which it is, actually, but won't be forever).

Geeks get really excited about it because it has the power to cut all of the financial vultures out of online transactions.  That's the real value.  A lot of people see it as an investment opportunity and I'm dubious about it from that perspective, long term.  These things are for transactions.

Chinese investors (and other grey-hat money sources) love it right now because it can be a relatively paperwork-free way to invest the boatloads of cash some of them are making.  It's hard for governments to seize crypto-currencies like this at the moment.
 
2014-03-04 01:57:15 PM  

impaler: Belias: MelGoesOnTour: Belias: Blame the company, not the currency.

MtGox didn't lose the US dollars on their exchange. They lost their bitcoin.


You are incorrect. They also lost funds from their bank account, in a parallel theft.  Regardless of amount stolen for each, the net result is that they do not have enough funds left to repay their depositors.  Customers will lose BOTH their Bitcoin AND their fiat deposits - USD, Euro, etc.

They were either incredibly (incredibly) incompetent, or they are committing fraud.  Neither of these says anything about the Bitcoin protocol.
 
2014-03-04 01:58:15 PM  

Sin_City_Superhero: And that's why I ONLY use gold doubloons.


pcgmedia.com

I conduct all trade in military grade surplus ammunition
 
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