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(Local10 WPLG)   Rushing to emergency room is no excuse for red light running, according to city that put red light camera at hospital entrance   (local10.com) divider line 23
    More: Florida, Tamarac, red light cameras, emergency rooms, Jacob Alcahe, 72nd Street, medical emergency, two-lane road, intersections  
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4634 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Mar 2014 at 1:09 PM (41 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2014-03-04 01:15:14 PM  
4 votes:
How many of those tickets were for cop cars who ran red lights without their lights and sirens on?

I'm going to say somewhere around the realm of 0.
2014-03-04 01:29:55 PM  
3 votes:
In this case I agree with the city. If you want to run a red light, do it inside an ambulance. If you're that sick you shouldn't be driving in the first place. Don't risk turning one medical emergency into two by hitting someone else.
2014-03-04 01:23:30 PM  
3 votes:
Hah! I grew up a stone's throw away from that hospital. There is no way that area justifies a red-light camera, except for the fact that the entire area is probably 80% retired fogies and therefore an easy cashgrab because most of them don't even realize that they are driving.
2014-03-04 01:21:15 PM  
3 votes:
However, city officials couldn't tell Local 10 how many of those violators were turning left into the hospital.

Couldn't,  or wouldn't?   Huge difference.


Cops, on or off duty don't pay red light tickets.  They go to court during their working hours and they automatically get dismissed.  Any judge who doesn't play along is out.  It's one of the many perks of being a cop.  So if they get a red light ticket while taking their kid to Little League,  you and I pay for them to spend half a day getting it dismissed.
2014-03-04 02:38:30 PM  
2 votes:

payattention: hardinparamedic - EMS is NOT a taxi ride.

Not kidding. I could ride from Nashville to Knoxville in a taxi cheaper than I could ride in the ambulance the three miles it takes to get me to the emergency room.

/several paramedics in my family...
//they all agree with you, but of course their jobs depend on this...
///STILL don't have the $500 for a three mile ride, regardless of the situation...


Tennessee has a law because of this that as long as someone pays at least a dollar a month on a medical bill, it's considered paid up for that month - they are not supposed to be able to come after you on deliquent collections. And many of the services will work with you, because they need that money. In addition, as a rule, insurance will cover between 60 to 80% of EMS charges.

If anyone EVER asks you for money up front after calling 911, they're violating State and in some cases Federal law.

The indiviudal providers don't care about the money - they don't even deal with the billing side of that.
2014-03-04 02:10:19 PM  
2 votes:
Ban camera enforcement once and for all.
2014-03-04 01:45:21 PM  
2 votes:

Weatherkiss: The medical condition itself. If it's a stroke or heart attack, you could be dead waiting for an ambulance when the hospital is less than 3 minutes away in your car. It has to be life-threatening.


Actually, this is not true. We even have scientific evidence proving that is not the case - response times under 15 minutes do not matter for things outside of Cardiac Arrest or a certain subset of medical or surgical emergencies. In addition, there are also studies that show that Door to Balloon in STEMI (a time critical type of heart attack) and Door to Needle/Intervention (Stroke) times are much less with EMS activation and field triage to an appropriate facility versus driving someone yourself. And the fact you CANNOT perform any interventions in your vehicle should something happen.

EMS is NOT a taxi ride. We do actually do stuff, contrary to popular belief.

You try to drive someone in cardiac arrest or respiratory arrest yourself, they're dead. Point blank. You've killed them and any chance they had versus doing pre-arrival CPR and waiting for EMS to manage them.

Weatherkiss: The distance to drive from where you live, and the distance the nearest ambulance would be.


The closest hospital to you might not have the services you or your family member need. Can you tell the capabilities of every hosptial in your city? Where is the most appropriate place to go for a Stroke? For Chest Pain? Which hospital has pediatric surgical or in patient capabilities?
2014-03-04 01:45:09 PM  
2 votes:

Ivo Shandor: In this case I agree with the city. If you want to run a red light, do it inside an ambulance. If you're that sick you shouldn't be driving in the first place. Don't risk turning one medical emergency into two by hitting someone else.


I hear they got them there 2-seater motion machines where one person drive and the other person don't - they just sit der bleedin da death at red lights!

Driver done gotta clean all that up!
2014-03-04 01:19:11 PM  
2 votes:
That has to be the most epic troll EVER!!  There is no middle finger big enough to adequately display one tenth of the disdain that city has for its populace.
2014-03-04 01:14:11 PM  
2 votes:
When my mother ran every red light in town rushing me to the ER so I wouldn't bleed out (nicked an artery), she got pulled over, cop took one look, and we got a police escort.

/oh for the pre-camera days
//oh for the pre jackboot days
2014-03-04 07:37:21 PM  
1 votes:

Weatherkiss: Gyrfalcon: Generally, most people in panic situations don't think. So the idea that they are "putting the odds in their favor" is completely ridiculous--they are freaking out and NOT thinking. They are in survival mode. They are thinking "GOTTA GET HELP NOW!!" and are unable to realize that waiting for the medics will actually take less time and improve the life expectancy as opposed to throwing their loved one in the back seat and driving like a bat out of hell for the nearest ER.

In a true life-or-death situation, risks are not weighed or minimized. They are flung out the nearest window in favor of GETTING HELP RIGHT NOW!!! by at least 99% of people. The 1% are those who survive. The rest are those who bleed out in the back of their friend's Monte Carlo, because the ER was only five minutes away and he'd been stabbed, man! We couldn't wait!

And if you think that, well, you've not been in a true life-or-death situation; or else you are a cop/medic/soldier and can actually weigh risks. But that is not most people.

For most people, yeah. But there are some people who are able to keep their cool even if it's their loved one and can train themselves and desensitize themselves from going into panic mode. Red light cameras don't differentiate between those people.


OK. But, you know, when I'm driving through town and going through an intersection with the green light in my direction and not expecting someone to be speeding through the red light because their loved one is dying in the back seat...I CAN'T EITHER.

I appreciate the distinction you think you are making. But remember that there are other people going through those lights in the other direction, they have just as much right to the road as your putative emergency driver, and unlike an emergency vehicle, your putative emergency driver hasn't got lights&sirens to tell other drivers they are coming. That is why red-light cameras are there--hopefully, to slow people down, and to cite the ones who don't--not because people may or may not have the "right" to zoom to hospitals in panic situations, but because they certainly do NOT have the right to hazard everyone else en route.

If you feel you are in the right, take your f*cking ticket to traffic court and convince the judge. Bring a copy of the hospital report as proof. If you have good cause, you ought to be able to convince the judge--hell, I'll even help you. But just because one or two people might be getting wrongfully ticketed running that light in an emergency, is not good cause to say everyone should be allowed to run a red light because emergency! and no consequences.
2014-03-04 03:54:42 PM  
1 votes:

MythDragon: That's what I was thinking. I'd hope the whaambulance wouldn't just go "got my lights on, you farmers better not be in my way when I plow through"
But stopping or going real slow and making sure the intersection is clear (if you can't see you don't go) seems reasonable. If some guy is stroking out (hehe) in the back, I don't see a point in sitting at a light that's got no traffic coming either way


The only people who I have seen go through red lights carelessly are law enforcement.  Every ambulance, and fire truck I've seen takes it slow and careful at intersections.
2014-03-04 03:43:01 PM  
1 votes:

Weatherkiss: All variables which tell me that dismissing/condoning the idea of running red lights during an emergency in your personal car/truck/whatever should be made on a case-by-case basis. I think it should be a guideline, sure. But there are always going to be situations that will require the rules to be bent or outright broken.


If your emergency is so dire that you feel it's appropriate to endanger countless other people on the road by doing this in order to make a difference in the life or death of your loved one, you shouldn't be driving them to begin with.

To put this another way, if you are so emotionally freaked out that you feel what is going on constitutes recklessly driving down the road, putting your own life and the lives of everyone you pass in danger with - at least- a two ton missile going 35 to 65 miles an hour at minimum, then maybe - JUST MAYBE - you should call 911.

You should not be in that position to begin with in a modern, first world society which is not operating under a disaster situation. Emergency Medical Services exist for a reason. They're paid very well to set there on their butt and wait for you to call. And IF, just IF the situation is so dire that you can remotely justify endangering the lives and livelyhood of those around you by Dukes of Hazzarding it to the nearest hospital, they represent the best chance for your loved one to go home from the hospital without any kind of disability or deficit.
2014-03-04 03:22:24 PM  
1 votes:

hardinparamedic: MythDragon: If I ever need an ambulance, you sir, have my permission to run as many Goddamn reds as you wish

I have two friends who are dead because they tried to run a red light with the woo woo bus. We recently went through a debacle here where a police officer killed a family of three blowing through a red light.

50% of ALL Emergency Vehicle accidents, not just abulances, occur at intersections that are improperly navigated through. And they kill non-rescuers just as much as rescuers.

I'll get you to the hospital safe and alive, Sir. Everyone goes home.


Maybe we need to differentiate between blowing through a red light at top speed even though the lights and siren are on, and going through a red light after noting that traffic in all directions is giving the proper respect to the Emergency vehicle.
2014-03-04 03:14:24 PM  
1 votes:
This isn't even running a real red light. This is one of those idiotic red left turn arrows where they think it's necessary to make traffic going the opposite direction stop to let you turn left, even if you can plainly see no one coming for as far as you can see, or you can see the traffic stopped at the next light. If it were an actual safety issue there would not be discretionary left turns anywhere. This type of traffic light setup shouldn't exist unless the intersection is at the crest of a hill where you can't tell if there is oncoming traffic.
2014-03-04 01:50:28 PM  
1 votes:

hardinparamedic: pendy575: It is about safety

It is if you're running a red light.

I have nice flashy lights and sirens and I DONT do that.


If I ever need an ambulance, you sir, have my permission to run as many Goddamn reds as you wish. In fact for each red that you have to red, I will buy you a plush pony of your choice. And if you get me to the hospital 15% under goal, I will write you your own personal erotic MLP fanfic. You ever want to know what else Twilight Sparkle can do with that horn? Save my life and you'll find out.
2014-03-04 01:41:45 PM  
1 votes:
i.imgur.com
2014-03-04 01:37:17 PM  
1 votes:

Ivo Shandor: In this case I agree with the city. If you want to run a red light, do it inside an ambulance. If you're that sick you shouldn't be driving in the first place. Don't risk turning one medical emergency into two by hitting someone else.


This is partially incorrect. It should be made on a case-by-case basis by an actual officer, not a camera. There are too many variables to say without a doubt that calling an ambulance would be the better decision to driving there yourself.

It depends on the following:

The distance to drive from where you live, and the distance the nearest ambulance would be.

The medical condition itself. If it's a stroke or heart attack, you could be dead waiting for an ambulance when the hospital is less than 3 minutes away in your car. It has to be life-threatening.

And, of course, whether or not the paramedics in the area are incompetent assholes.
2014-03-04 01:15:13 PM  
1 votes:
Maybe the city should ticket any of its emergency vehicles that run through that light. And then pay off their fines by moving money from one department budget to another, kind of like a bureaucratic perpetual motion machine.
2014-03-04 01:12:41 PM  
1 votes:

pendy575: It is about safety

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
2014-03-04 01:12:36 PM  
1 votes:
1.  Sue the city for interfering with a medical emergency.
2.  ???
3.  Profit
2014-03-04 01:12:14 PM  
1 votes:
It's a trap.
2014-03-04 01:11:49 PM  
1 votes:
It is about safety
 
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