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(Washington Post)   Republicans, one week ago: Obama's sweeping use of imperial power makes him a king, a God-king, a dictator ruling every facet of our lives. This week: OMG, why is Obama so feeble and weak?   (washingtonpost.com ) divider line
    More: Stupid, Obama, imperialisms, Republicans, dictators, AIPAC  
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554 clicks; posted to Politics » on 04 Mar 2014 at 10:45 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-04 09:43:55 AM  
Yes because there is no difference between foreign and domestic.
 
2014-03-04 09:49:19 AM  
Because Republicans are full of shiat.

And they have a hard-on for big strong, shirtless men on horses.

/Oh Myyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
 
2014-03-04 09:49:56 AM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Yes because there is no difference between foreign and domestic.


I read or listened to a story a few years back ... it was talking about Bush ... or Obama... I'm sorry, I don't remember. It spoke of the office of the President and the stark contrast between being the most powerful person on the international stage while also being fairly weak on the domestic stage. It was interesting and made sense.
 
2014-03-04 09:51:28 AM  
I suppose the "Obvious" tag would have been too obvious?
 
2014-03-04 09:53:59 AM  
 
2014-03-04 09:56:07 AM  
I wouldn't call Obama weak, but he is making himself look like Putin's biatch every time he opens his mouth on the Ukraine topic.
 
2014-03-04 10:10:54 AM  
lh4.googleusercontent.com
 
2014-03-04 10:11:13 AM  

Lucky LaRue: I wouldn't call Obama weak, but he is making himself look like Putin's biatch every time he opens his mouth on the Ukraine topic.


What should he say or do?
 
2014-03-04 10:12:55 AM  
It's almost as if some of these people have some kind of dissociative identity disorder...
 
2014-03-04 10:15:39 AM  

Nadie_AZ: I read or listened to a story a few years back ... it was talking about Bush ... or Obama... I'm sorry, I don't remember. It spoke of the office of the President and the stark contrast between being the most powerful person on the international stage while also being fairly weak on the domestic stage. It was interesting and made sense.


Well, you don't want a weak executive branch. The whole checks and balances thing, you know. And I think Rep Stewart put forth a clear case about how the current administration is violating the system of checks and balances

Rep. Stewart (D)

Now the power of the President over seas is only as good as his bluff. People have to believe that the Administration will back up words with actions. Right now it's been a mixed bag. The action in Libya went well, but that had the backing necessary to call it a NATO mission not just a US mission. Then on the other hand the all talk no action on Syria didn't help. And Putin was the one that pulled us out of that one. And now Putin is standing on the other side of this conflict.
 
2014-03-04 10:17:25 AM  

Lionel Mandrake: Lucky LaRue: I wouldn't call Obama weak, but he is making himself look like Putin's biatch every time he opens his mouth on the Ukraine topic.

What should he say or do?


Don't ask me; I'm no leader.  He might do well to take his cues from people who actually have a political presence that foreign leaders respect, though.
 
2014-03-04 10:18:25 AM  
Obama could look real tough and decisive, and be nobody's biatch by saying "Get out of Ukraine within the week or we respond with force."

That would be tough as shiat.  And dumb as shiat.  The two often go together.

So I ask the "Obama is weak" crowd:  WHAT SHOULD HE SAY OR DO??

GOP: all talk, no actual useful suggestions
 
2014-03-04 10:20:00 AM  

Lionel Mandrake: Obama could look real tough and decisive, and be nobody's biatch by saying "Get out of Ukraine within the week or we respond with force."

That would be tough as shiat.  And dumb as shiat.  The two often go together.

So I ask the "Obama is weak" crowd:  WHAT SHOULD HE SAY OR DO??

GOP: all talk, no actual useful suggestions


It isn't necessary to have a solution to recognize the problem.
 
2014-03-04 10:22:23 AM  

Lucky LaRue: Lionel Mandrake: Lucky LaRue: I wouldn't call Obama weak, but he is making himself look like Putin's biatch every time he opens his mouth on the Ukraine topic.

What should he say or do?

Don't ask me; I'm no leader.  He might do well to take his cues from people who actually have a political presence that foreign leaders respect, though.


Of course...you know what he's doing is wrong, but don't know what's right.  As expected.

So, cues from what people specifically?  Or is that more ass-talk?
 
2014-03-04 10:25:08 AM  

Lucky LaRue: Lionel Mandrake: Obama could look real tough and decisive, and be nobody's biatch by saying "Get out of Ukraine within the week or we respond with force."

That would be tough as shiat.  And dumb as shiat.  The two often go together.

So I ask the "Obama is weak" crowd:  WHAT SHOULD HE SAY OR DO??

GOP: all talk, no actual useful suggestions

It isn't necessary to have a solution to recognize the problem.


The problem is " he looks like Putin's biatch??"

Be specific as to what he's doing wrong.  It's a good place to start when looking for the right response.

Or keep being a vague whiner.  Whatever.
 
2014-03-04 10:27:55 AM  

Lionel Mandrake: Lucky LaRue: Lionel Mandrake: Lucky LaRue: I wouldn't call Obama weak, but he is making himself look like Putin's biatch every time he opens his mouth on the Ukraine topic.

What should he say or do?

Don't ask me; I'm no leader.  He might do well to take his cues from people who actually have a political presence that foreign leaders respect, though.

Of course...you know what he's doing is wrong, but don't know what's right.  As expected.

So, cues from what people specifically?  Or is that more ass-talk?


It's obvious he is showing weakness in this particular political situation, just like he showed weakness on the Syria question.  You would do better to face that problem rather than demand someone set up a strawman for you to knock over so that you feel better about your leader's questionable ability to command respect on the international stage.
 
2014-03-04 10:30:06 AM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Nadie_AZ: I read or listened to a story a few years back ... it was talking about Bush ... or Obama... I'm sorry, I don't remember. It spoke of the office of the President and the stark contrast between being the most powerful person on the international stage while also being fairly weak on the domestic stage. It was interesting and made sense.

Well, you don't want a weak executive branch. The whole checks and balances thing, you know. And I think Rep Stewart put forth a clear case about how the current administration is violating the system of checks and balances

Rep. Stewart (D)

Now the power of the President over seas is only as good as his bluff. People have to believe that the Administration will back up words with actions. Right now it's been a mixed bag. The action in Libya went well, but that had the backing necessary to call it a NATO mission not just a US mission. Then on the other hand the all talk no action on Syria didn't help. And Putin was the one that pulled us out of that one. And now Putin is standing on the other side of this conflict.


Yes, historically the Executive has too much power. It has been a transition from the Legislative since the 80s.
 
2014-03-04 10:30:44 AM  

Lucky LaRue: Lionel Mandrake: Lucky LaRue: Lionel Mandrake: Lucky LaRue: I wouldn't call Obama weak, but he is making himself look like Putin's biatch every time he opens his mouth on the Ukraine topic.

What should he say or do?

Don't ask me; I'm no leader.  He might do well to take his cues from people who actually have a political presence that foreign leaders respect, though.

Of course...you know what he's doing is wrong, but don't know what's right.  As expected.

So, cues from what people specifically?  Or is that more ass-talk?

It's obvious he is showing weakness in this particular political situation, just like he showed weakness on the Syria question.  You would do better to face that problem rather than demand someone set up a strawman for you to knock over so that you feel better about your leader's questionable ability to command respect on the international stage.


Hey, all I'm hearing is that what he's doing is wrong.  Beyond saying he's playing marbles or not being decisive, is there anything more to be said?  I can't say he's being weak if nobody can say what strong would be.

You really have NO ideas?

Don't feel bad if you don't.  Not a single critic does.
 
2014-03-04 10:32:18 AM  
Next week?  Too Centrist for our United States!
 
2014-03-04 10:33:16 AM  
Meh.  Opponents of political figures have done this for years.  Remember how Reagan was simultaneously a doddering old fool and an evil genius?

http://snltranscripts.jt.org/86/86fmasterbrain.phtml
 
2014-03-04 10:35:58 AM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Rep. Stewart (D)


Why did you list him as a Democrat when he's a Republican?
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-03-04 10:36:03 AM  

Lionel Mandrake: Lucky LaRue: I wouldn't call Obama weak, but he is making himself look like Putin's biatch every time he opens his mouth on the Ukraine topic.

What should he say or do?


He should take off his shoe and pound the podium while threatening to bury the red menace.
.
 
2014-03-04 10:36:14 AM  
data3.whicdn.com
 
2014-03-04 10:38:04 AM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Nadie_AZ: I read or listened to a story a few years back ... it was talking about Bush ... or Obama... I'm sorry, I don't remember. It spoke of the office of the President and the stark contrast between being the most powerful person on the international stage while also being fairly weak on the domestic stage. It was interesting and made sense.

Well, you don't want a weak executive branch. The whole checks and balances thing, you know. And I think Rep Stewart put forth a clear case about how the current administration is violating the system of checks and balances

Rep. Stewart (D)

Now the power of the President over seas is only as good as his bluff. People have to believe that the Administration will back up words with actions. Right now it's been a mixed bag. The action in Libya went well, but that had the backing necessary to call it a NATO mission not just a US mission. Then on the other hand the all talk no action on Syria didn't help. And Putin was the one that pulled us out of that one.


Considering that Syria is essentially a Russian client and in their sphere of influence, that was sort of HIS mess to clean up in the first place. Ukraine, is pretty much on the Russian side of things as well. Same as Georgians rolling tanks out against civilians in Ossetia. The entire world isn't the US backyard. There are places we have no real influence over. Likewise, coalitions are sort of important in international action.

I know that it's hard to believe, when you have a rage boner to do SOMETHING, but occasionally, it helps to think about things in more than just terms of the US. The sad thing? The US has been so active in meddling, and kicking over anthills, that the UN has sort of been lax about things, because the perception is, "If we just wait long enough, the US will take care of that, and then we can get about to making a profit on it."
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-03-04 10:38:53 AM  
Lucky LaRue:

It isn't necessary to have a solution to recognize the problem.

Not if you don't want to be taken seriously.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-03-04 10:39:30 AM  

RexTalionis: What's also funny is that I'm starting to hear people praising Putin because they think Putin is making Obama look bad.


He is practically one of them.
 
2014-03-04 10:44:38 AM  

RexTalionis: What's also funny is that I'm starting to hear people praising Putin because they think Putin is making Obama look bad.

For instance:

https://www.teaparty.org/giuliani-putin-leader-obama-read-latest-bre ak ing-news-newsmax-com-httpwww-newsmax-comnewsfrontrudolph-giuliani-vlad imir-putin-leader-ukraine20140303id555803ixzz2uwj1p3-36100/

http://www.teaparty.org/romney-putin-better-president-obama-33576/

https://www.teaparty.org/putin-humiliates-obama-u-s-media-ukraine-35 95 9/

http://www.teaparty.org/kristol-putin-acts-obama-affirms-35902/


It's sad yet hilarious to watch Giuliani puff out his chest and praise Putin like a proud father.  You want a Decider?  We had one of those.  Every decision he made was wrong, but by god, he was decisive.
 
2014-03-04 10:47:12 AM  

RexTalionis: What's also funny is that I'm starting to hear people praising Putin because they think Putin is making Obama look bad.

For instance:

https://www.teaparty.org/giuliani-putin-leader-obama-read-latest-bre ak ing-news-newsmax-com-httpwww-newsmax-comnewsfrontrudolph-giuliani-vlad imir-putin-leader-ukraine20140303id555803ixzz2uwj1p3-36100/

http://www.teaparty.org/romney-putin-better-president-obama-33576/

https://www.teaparty.org/putin-humiliates-obama-u-s-media-ukraine-35 95 9/

http://www.teaparty.org/kristol-putin-acts-obama-affirms-35902/


Putin is everything right-wingers with daddy issues are looking for in a leader.
 
2014-03-04 10:47:40 AM  
I can almost see the Republicans' pants bulging for Putin.

"Putin is so strong!" "Obama is so weak!"

they swoon and bat their eyes and twirl their hair.

Republicans will side with Putin over Obama any day.
 
2014-03-04 10:50:22 AM  

RexTalionis: Why did you list him as a Democrat when he's a Republican?


I thought he was. If he's not that's 100 percent my bad
 
2014-03-04 10:50:39 AM  

RexTalionis: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Rep. Stewart (D)

Why did you list him as a Democrat when he's a Republican?


Fox News-like typing detected.

www.roughlydrafted.com
 
2014-03-04 10:51:41 AM  

hubiestubert: Considering that Syria is essentially a Russian client and in their sphere of influence, that was sort of HIS mess to clean up in the first place.


which only serves to show how incredibly ignorant people are who claim that obama forcing russia to step in was a sign of weakness

it's like forcing your neighbor to clean his yard - takes a lot more political force than cleaning it for him
 
2014-03-04 10:51:52 AM  

Mentat: It's sad yet hilarious to watch Giuliani puff out his chest and praise Putin like a proud father.  You want a Decider?  We had one of those.  Every decision he made was wrong, but by god, he was decisive.


I think Maddow said something last night that when you go back to 2008, we had a "strong and decisive leader" and Putin still decided to mess with Georgia.  This is more about Putin than it is the US.
 
2014-03-04 10:52:24 AM  
Republicans would side with Hitler before they would side with Obama.
 
2014-03-04 10:52:27 AM  

Lucky LaRue: It isn't necessary to have a solution to recognize the problem


Oh great, thanks for leaking the Republican midterms slogan early, you jackass!
 
2014-03-04 10:53:43 AM  
"Just DO something, you empty suit weakling!" We'll keep hearing this over and over.

Right now the president's having a hard enough time getting the Europeans on board with just sanctions, for God's sake. So do try to think a bit before shooting your mouths off, right-wingers.
 
2014-03-04 10:53:57 AM  

vpb: RexTalionis: What's also funny is that I'm starting to hear people praising Putin because they think Putin is making Obama look bad.

He is practically one of them.


Pat Buchanan - "Is Vladimir Putin a paleoconservative? In the culture war for mankind's future, is he one of us?"

World Net Daily - The climate under Obama has gotten so bad, in fact, that Russian leader Vladimir Putin feels emboldened to claim for Russia the mantle of world moral leader - a proud distinction hitherto held by the good ol' USA.

The Daily Mail reports that, in his state of the nation address, "Putin sought to cast Russia as the moral arbiter of the world on Thursday, as he hit out at America's 'non-traditional values' and its influence across the world."

Austin Ruse, Catholic Family and Human Rights Institute - "You admire some of the things they're doing in Russia against [homosexual] propaganda. On the other hand, you know it would be impossible to do that here."
 
2014-03-04 10:54:13 AM  

Lionel Mandrake: So I ask the "Obama is weak" crowd: WHAT SHOULD HE SAY OR DO??


Duh.  He should resign so that a Real Man like Ted Cruz can take charge.
 
2014-03-04 10:54:47 AM  
Lucky LaRue:
It's obvious he is showing weakness in this particular political situation, just like he showed weakness on the Syria question.  You would do better to face that problem rather than demand someone set up a strawman for you to knock over so that you feel better about your leader's questionable ability to command respect on the international stage.

The only strawman here is yours, if you can't clearly articulate how the President is being "weak" your whole argument makes no sense.  The US is far, far more respected now than it was during the Bush years.   http://www.pewglobal.org/topics/u-s-global-image-and-anti-americanism /

Stop parroting vague BS and start making a real argument.
 
2014-03-04 10:54:52 AM  

sigdiamond2000: RexTalionis: What's also funny is that I'm starting to hear people praising Putin because they think Putin is making Obama look bad.

For instance:

https://www.teaparty.org/giuliani-putin-leader-obama-read-latest-bre ak ing-news-newsmax-com-httpwww-newsmax-comnewsfrontrudolph-giuliani-vlad imir-putin-leader-ukraine20140303id555803ixzz2uwj1p3-36100/

http://www.teaparty.org/romney-putin-better-president-obama-33576/

https://www.teaparty.org/putin-humiliates-obama-u-s-media-ukraine-35 95 9/

http://www.teaparty.org/kristol-putin-acts-obama-affirms-35902/

Putin is everything right-wingers with daddy issues are looking for in a leader.


Bingo. "Macho",  corrupt as fark pro-business, anti-gay...The only reason Republicans claim NOT to like him is because he's Russian, and they're programmed to see all Russians as the enemy.
 
2014-03-04 10:55:15 AM  

Lionel Mandrake: Lucky LaRue: Lionel Mandrake: Lucky LaRue: I wouldn't call Obama weak, but he is making himself look like Putin's biatch every time he opens his mouth on the Ukraine topic.

What should he say or do?

Don't ask me; I'm no leader.  He might do well to take his cues from people who actually have a political presence that foreign leaders respect, though.

Of course...you know what he's doing is wrong, but don't know what's right.  As expected.

So, cues from what people specifically?  Or is that more ass-talk?


Heh.  "Ass-talk".  Now I'm going to read all of the conservative troll's posts in the voice of Charlie Brown's parents.
 
2014-03-04 10:55:36 AM  

Lucky LaRue: Lionel Mandrake: Obama could look real tough and decisive, and be nobody's biatch by saying "Get out of Ukraine within the week or we respond with force."

That would be tough as shiat.  And dumb as shiat.  The two often go together.

So I ask the "Obama is weak" crowd:  WHAT SHOULD HE SAY OR DO??

GOP: all talk, no actual useful suggestions

It isn't necessary to have a solution to recognize the problem.


Party of No indeed!
 
2014-03-04 10:55:46 AM  
So just what exactly do the Republicans propose we do with regard to Ukraine?  Do they really think we should get involved militarily?  They do remember what almost happened when the Soviet Union decided to get involved militarily in our own backyard, right?
 
2014-03-04 10:56:28 AM  

hubiestubert: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Nadie_AZ: I read or listened to a story a few years back ... it was talking about Bush ... or Obama... I'm sorry, I don't remember. It spoke of the office of the President and the stark contrast between being the most powerful person on the international stage while also being fairly weak on the domestic stage. It was interesting and made sense.

Well, you don't want a weak executive branch. The whole checks and balances thing, you know. And I think Rep Stewart put forth a clear case about how the current administration is violating the system of checks and balances

Rep. Stewart (D)

Now the power of the President over seas is only as good as his bluff. People have to believe that the Administration will back up words with actions. Right now it's been a mixed bag. The action in Libya went well, but that had the backing necessary to call it a NATO mission not just a US mission. Then on the other hand the all talk no action on Syria didn't help. And Putin was the one that pulled us out of that one.

Considering that Syria is essentially a Russian client and in their sphere of influence, that was sort of HIS mess to clean up in the first place. Ukraine, is pretty much on the Russian side of things as well. Same as Georgians rolling tanks out against civilians in Ossetia. The entire world isn't the US backyard. There are places we have no real influence over. Likewise, coalitions are sort of important in international action.

I know that it's hard to believe, when you have a rage boner to do SOMETHING, but occasionally, it helps to think about things in more than just terms of the US. The sad thing? The US has been so active in meddling, and kicking over anthills, that the UN has sort of been lax about things, because the perception is, "If we just wait long enough, the US will take care of that, and then we can get about to making a profit on it."


Problem is, the UN Security Council won't ever agree on anything. Not when the primary offenders in the meddling sweepstakes are the US/UK, France, Russia, and China. You pretty much have to get a whacko who won't listen to anyone (e.g. the Taliban/Mullah Omar/bin Laden) to get those five to agree on anything.

Putin's exploiting any weakness in the various ex-USSR countries (e.g. giving passports to ethnic minorities, playing Armenia and Azerbaijan against each other, etc.)

I suspect he's lost the Baltics given their high degree of integration with NATO and the West (and the fact that they were all independent within living memory). But the others? He can make them his puppets -- and it matters more to him than to us.

In 1956, we had this discussion over Hungary. The desire to "do something to help those people who want freedom" balanced with the "wait a minute, this is in Russia's backyard and means more to them than to us." Now it's over Ukraine -- the Baltics and ex-Warsaw Pact countries are solidly part of the EU/West/civilized world/whatever you want to call it.

We can't let our reluctance to act (for whatever justifiable reason) whitewash what Putin's doing, though. Too many people seem to think our mistakes in Iraq and our overstaying in Afghanistan mean it's A-OK for Putin to do whatever.
 
2014-03-04 10:56:30 AM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Yes because there is no difference between foreign and domestic.


In other words, Obama should use his imperial powers in situations we barely understand and on people we rarely think about unless something goes wrong, instead of trying to address our own problems or govern our own society.
 
2014-03-04 10:57:09 AM  

Wooly Bully: "Just DO something, you empty suit weakling!" We'll keep hearing this over and over.

Right now the president's having a hard enough time getting the Europeans on board with just sanctions, for God's sake. So do try to think a bit before shooting your mouths off, right-wingers.


Well, yeah. Obama has to do something so Republicans can declare that it was wrong and he should have done the opposite.

If Obama had sent troops to Crimea, you can bet that they would have been biatching about 'risking World War 3 just to help some Muslims'.
 
2014-03-04 10:58:19 AM  
Why did he feel the need to get involved in the first place?
 
2014-03-04 10:58:38 AM  

vernonFL: I can almost see the Republicans' pants bulging for Putin.

"Putin is so strong!" "Obama is so weak!"

they swoon and bat their eyes and twirl their hair.

Republicans will side with Putin over Obama any day.


The majority leader added: "I have spoken to administration officials to express our interest in working together to ensure that President Obama has the appropriate tools to impose real consequences on Russia for this aggression."

http://www.nationaljournal.com/congress/house-gop-leaders-plot-respo ns e-on-ukraine-20140303
 
2014-03-04 10:59:45 AM  

duffblue: Why did he feel the need to get involved in the first place?


because buzzwords
 
2014-03-04 11:01:15 AM  

LordJiro: Wooly Bully: "Just DO something, you empty suit weakling!" We'll keep hearing this over and over.

Right now the president's having a hard enough time getting the Europeans on board with just sanctions, for God's sake. So do try to think a bit before shooting your mouths off, right-wingers.

Well, yeah. Obama has to do something so Republicans can declare that it was wrong and he should have done the opposite.

If Obama had sent troops to Crimea, you can bet that they would have been biatching about 'risking World War 3 just to help some Muslims'.


Absolutely - the only constant in this stream of right-wing critics is "Obama bad". Well, that and the utter lack of anything constructive.
 
2014-03-04 11:01:30 AM  

Lucky LaRue: Lionel Mandrake: Obama could look real tough and decisive, and be nobody's biatch by saying "Get out of Ukraine within the week or we respond with force."

That would be tough as shiat.  And dumb as shiat.  The two often go together.

So I ask the "Obama is weak" crowd:  WHAT SHOULD HE SAY OR DO??

GOP: all talk, no actual useful suggestions

It isn't necessary to have a solution to recognize the problem.


Yes, it's called "whining."
 
2014-03-04 11:01:55 AM  

RexTalionis: What's also funny is that I'm starting to hear people praising Putin because they think Putin is making Obama look bad.

For instance:

https://www.teaparty.org/giuliani-putin-leader-obama-read-latest-bre ak ing-news-newsmax-com-httpwww-newsmax-comnewsfrontrudolph-giuliani-vlad imir-putin-leader-ukraine20140303id555803ixzz2uwj1p3-36100/

http://www.teaparty.org/romney-putin-better-president-obama-33576/

https://www.teaparty.org/putin-humiliates-obama-u-s-media-ukraine-35 95 9/

http://www.teaparty.org/kristol-putin-acts-obama-affirms-35902/


The thing is, it's not Obama that's weak. It's the European leaders, who are frankly pathetic. Cameron, Merkel, Hollande, all have no spine at all. Merkel basically sounds like she has her head stuck in the sand and is pretending nothing is happening in Ukraine, Cameron clearly wants Russian capital to keep flowing into the City and would practically allow Russian annexation of the entirety of Ukraine to permit it, and Hollande... Well, he's still Flanby.
 
2014-03-04 11:03:12 AM  

Lionel Mandrake: Don't feel bad if you don't. Not a single critic does.


I do.

And the President is basically doing what I would have done, just out of order. First and foremost you get the emergency meeting of NATO together. Confab and get a feel for what your partners are and are not willing to do. Then give a speech outlining what you you think is wrong and what you expect to have happen. Ideally you give it with them in the background nodding. That makes you look strong. Getting the people who can help in line to help. You don't look like you're isolated and you look like you have a little state craft working. If this was done early we may have been able to keep China out of it. I have a feeling Putin already had China shored up before the Olympics but maybe they would have gotten cold feet.

One move I would have done immediately would have been to take the "I have to protect my citizens" piece off the board. This could have been done by getting the UN to ship over Peace Keepers to monitor the situation. As I said before I don't think the UN can solve anything, but they can really gum up the works! Putin would be less like to start firing off rounds if blue helmets are in the way.
 
2014-03-04 11:05:56 AM  

Lionel Mandrake: Obama could look real tough and decisive, and be nobody's biatch by saying "Get out of Ukraine within the week or we respond with force."

That would be tough as shiat.  And dumb as shiat.  The two often go together.

So I ask the "Obama is weak" crowd:  WHAT SHOULD HE SAY OR DO??

GOP: all talk, no actual useful suggestions


John McCain is on BBC right now saying that there are no options, and it's all Obama's fault. "This has been five years in the making."
 
2014-03-04 11:06:12 AM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Lionel Mandrake: Don't feel bad if you don't. Not a single critic does.

I do.

And the President is basically doing what I would have done, just out of order. First and foremost you get the emergency meeting of NATO together. Confab and get a feel for what your partners are and are not willing to do. Then give a speech outlining what you you think is wrong and what you expect to have happen. Ideally you give it with them in the background nodding. That makes you look strong. Getting the people who can help in line to help. You don't look like you're isolated and you look like you have a little state craft working. If this was done early we may have been able to keep China out of it. I have a feeling Putin already had China shored up before the Olympics but maybe they would have gotten cold feet.

One move I would have done immediately would have been to take the "I have to protect my citizens" piece off the board. This could have been done by getting the UN to ship over Peace Keepers to monitor the situation. As I said before I don't think the UN can solve anything, but they can really gum up the works! Putin would be less like to start firing off rounds if blue helmets are in the way.


Russia would have just immediately vetoed Peace Keeping UN forces from it's spot on the Security Council. Wasn't ever an option.
 
2014-03-04 11:06:18 AM  

Wooly Bully: "Just DO something, you empty suit weakling!" We'll keep hearing this over and over.

Right now the president's having a hard enough time getting the Europeans on board with just sanctions, for God's sake. So do try to think a bit before shooting your mouths off, right-wingers.


In fairness, a weakened Ukraine, even a Ukraine minus Crimea if they break off isn't exactly a bad outcome for the Europeans. They get theirs on the back end with deals with Russia, and they get to renegotiate a lot with the new government--and at terms that they'll not be able to fend off as easily.

Europeans politics goes back a while, and governments rising and falling? That's just how it goes. The US has had a single form of government far longer than anything in Europe. They have the history, but it's been punctuated by governments rising and falling. Ukraine taking a reshuffling? That's just business as usual. They aren't exactly happy with Russia being blatant about moving troops in to secure their ports and keep unrest the heck away from their property, and they'll do their damnedest to keep civil war far and away, but if Ukraine starts shooting, that's on their heads as far as the rest of Europe is concerned, and if Russia can put that to an end, more power to them, as far as the rest of Europe is concerned. It could potentially disrupt business, and fuel, so the quicker this comes to a finish, the better. Better have Ukraine sulk as folks decide to split, than having them shooting up the joint. In the end, it's not about "freedom" or "sovereignty" in their minds, but "stability." Ukraine with a split Crimea will be more concerned about pulling together in the face of their new neighbors, and that will mean an end to the potential strife. Rude wake up call? For damn sure, but the UN wasn't about to pull that off. The US? Not our bailiwick.
 
2014-03-04 11:06:34 AM  
Ooooh, McCain just used the word "feckless"!

DRINK
 
2014-03-04 11:07:29 AM  
The Stealth Hippopotamus:

One move I would have done immediately would have been to take the "I have to protect my citizens" piece off the board. This could have been done by getting the UN to ship over Peace Keepers to monitor the situation. As I said before I don't think the UN can solve anything, but they can really gum up the works! Putin would be less like to start firing off rounds if blue helmets are in the way.

Someone doesn't understand how the UN works, lol.  For the UN to ship over peacekeepers you would need approval by the UN security council.  Guess who is a permanent member of the council with veto power?  Go on, guess.
 
2014-03-04 11:07:30 AM  
WHY DOESN'T HE JUST SHOW SOME LEADERSHIP
 
2014-03-04 11:08:00 AM  
Crap, now McCain just used a Chamberlain and Sudentenland reference.

DRINK AGAIN

/McCain now making excuses for Germany not pushing sanctions
 
2014-03-04 11:08:40 AM  

T-Servo: John McCain is on BBC right now saying that there are no options, and it's all Obama's fault. "This has been five years in the making."


he's right

most russians have never even seen a black person
 
2014-03-04 11:10:19 AM  
And now McCain is blaming Sec Hagel for the defense cuts at the Pentagon.

DAMMIT, now a Reagan reference. Is that another shot? This is too early in the day.
 
2014-03-04 11:11:52 AM  
Neo Cons are just proving the theory that their only play was the Cold War, specifically wars of attrition that depend upon a Cold War.  Now they have nothing left to think about or say, and that scares the hell out of them.

When your dogma cannot adapt, neither can you, and adaptability is what keeps us alive.
 
2014-03-04 11:12:14 AM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Lionel Mandrake: Don't feel bad if you don't. Not a single critic does.

I do.

And the President is basically doing what I would have done, just out of order. First and foremost you get the emergency meeting of NATO together. Confab and get a feel for what your partners are and are not willing to do. Then give a speech outlining what you you think is wrong and what you expect to have happen. Ideally you give it with them in the background nodding. That makes you look strong. Getting the people who can help in line to help. You don't look like you're isolated and you look like you have a little state craft working. If this was done early we may have been able to keep China out of it. I have a feeling Putin already had China shored up before the Olympics but maybe they would have gotten cold feet.

One move I would have done immediately would have been to take the "I have to protect my citizens" piece off the board. This could have been done by getting the UN to ship over Peace Keepers to monitor the situation. As I said before I don't think the UN can solve anything, but they can really gum up the works! Putin would be less like to start firing off rounds if blue helmets are in the way.


We assume, of course, this was attempted -- given how Americans have run foreign policy under Bush/Obama, I wonder if this was even considered.

A statement that "We're meeting with NATO to discuss the status of events in a country that's part of our Partnership for Peace program" would've bought 48 hours from most legitimate observers (I'm going to discount the Rondroids and the Democracy Now types.) If that meeting ended in acrimony, then you have to go it alone or with a coalition of the willing.

UN peacekeepers were off the board due to Putin's position on UNSC. But the EU could have offered to send peacekeepers, or say pay for India providing peacekeepers.

New Ukraine government will do what it takes to keep the country stable + together.
 
2014-03-04 11:14:09 AM  

duffblue: Why did he feel the need to get involved in the first place?


We are viewed as the world police by much of the world.
 
2014-03-04 11:14:14 AM  

hubiestubert: Considering that Syria is essentially a Russian client and in their sphere of influence, that was sort of HIS mess to clean up in the first place. Ukraine, is pretty much on the Russian side of things as well. Same as Georgians rolling tanks out against civilians in Ossetia. The entire world isn't the US backyard. There are places we have no real influence over. Likewise, coalitions are sort of important in international action.


I understand that. And you understand that. The Administration should have understood that. The President delivered a written speech bluffing military action when he knew we didn't have any backing and he could get Congress on board. And the sad part is the world knew it and we needed the life line Putin provided.

hubiestubert: I know that it's hard to believe, when you have a rage boner to do SOMETHING, but occasionally, it helps to think about things in more than just terms of the US. The sad thing? The US has been so active in meddling, and kicking over anthills, that the UN has sort of been lax about things, because the perception is, "If we just wait long enough, the US will take care of that, and then we can get about to making a profit on it."


Ok, lets be perfectly clear. I do not want to "do something" if that includes gun powder or jet fuel.

I agree with everything after the "The sad thing?"
 
2014-03-04 11:14:35 AM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Lionel Mandrake: Don't feel bad if you don't. Not a single critic does.

I do.

And the President is basically doing what I would have done, just out of order. First and foremost you get the emergency meeting of NATO together. Confab and get a feel for what your partners are and are not willing to do. Then give a speech outlining what you you think is wrong and what you expect to have happen. Ideally you give it with them in the background nodding. That makes you look strong. Getting the people who can help in line to help. You don't look like you're isolated and you look like you have a little state craft working. If this was done early we may have been able to keep China out of it. I have a feeling Putin already had China shored up before the Olympics but maybe they would have gotten cold feet.

One move I would have done immediately would have been to take the "I have to protect my citizens" piece off the board. This could have been done by getting the UN to ship over Peace Keepers to monitor the situation. As I said before I don't think the UN can solve anything, but they can really gum up the works! Putin would be less like to start firing off rounds if blue helmets are in the way.


Except you're NOT going to get UN peacekeepers anywhere near fast enough, nor do any of the nations closest want to do much of anything, but wait and see. The UN won't do a damn thing, until there is a LOT of shooting, and it becomes untenable to business to continue. No one in Europe really cares. Not really. They'll make polite noises, but a weakened Ukraine is a much more malleable trading partner--even a potential market for all sorts of crap that they might feel they need to defend themselves--and certainly MORE in their sphere of influence down the line.

As for "looking strong"...it's not OUR bailiwick. And no one is really going to do much of anything until there is shooting. Right now, it's a stand off and tensions are running high, and there are calls going fast and furious, but that's all we really can do. All anyone can really do. And NOT showing off is sort of important right now, much more than puffing out chests at this point in public. If anything, right now, overplaying one's hand is exactly the wrong thing.
 
2014-03-04 11:15:13 AM  

duffblue: Why did he feel the need to get involved in the first place?


Same reason he would have if this had happened in Germany or Poland.  What a stupid question.
 
2014-03-04 11:16:50 AM  
i151.photobucket.com
 
2014-03-04 11:17:27 AM  
It's simple. When Obama decides to take unilateral action that the GOP doesn't like he's a tyrant. When he doesn't take unilateral action that the GOP wants, he's spineless.

Clearly Obama needs to anticipate exactly what the GOP wants him to do, when they want him to do it and just get on with it. It's what a true leader would do.
 
2014-03-04 11:17:37 AM  
The Stealth Hippopotamus:  Ok, lets be perfectly clear. I do not want to "do something" if that includes gun powder or jet fuel.

In that case, I apologize. These threads it's sometimes hard to keep track, but it IS on me to do so. Mea culpa.
 
2014-03-04 11:18:00 AM  

amiable: The Stealth Hippopotamus:

One move I would have done immediately would have been to take the "I have to protect my citizens" piece off the board. This could have been done by getting the UN to ship over Peace Keepers to monitor the situation. As I said before I don't think the UN can solve anything, but they can really gum up the works! Putin would be less like to start firing off rounds if blue helmets are in the way.

Someone doesn't understand how the UN works, lol.  For the UN to ship over peacekeepers you would need approval by the UN security council.  Guess who is a permanent member of the council with veto power?  Go on, guess.


Madagascar?

I hear they shut down everything.
 
2014-03-04 11:18:15 AM  

JusticeandIndependence: duffblue: Why did he feel the need to get involved in the first place?

We are viewed as the world police by much of the world.


Completely obliterating the Nazis and the Empire of Japan simultaneously,  in under five yearswhile still keeping the USSR from overtaking all of Europe may have had something to do with it.  That tends to leave a long lasting global footprint.
 
2014-03-04 11:18:49 AM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Ok, lets be perfectly clear. I do not want to "do something" if that includes gun powder or jet fuel.


So drones are ok then?
 
2014-03-04 11:22:33 AM  

T-Servo: [i151.photobucket.com image 750x500]


they've be shaking because they'd be laughing really really hard.
 
2014-03-04 11:23:00 AM  

threedingers: It's simple. When Obama decides to take unilateral action that the GOP doesn't like he's a tyrant. When he doesn't take unilateral action that the GOP wants, he's spineless.

Clearly Obama needs to anticipate exactly what the GOP wants him to do, when they want him to do it and just get on with it. It's what a true leader would do.


The fact that the GOPs talking points send you guys into such a tizzy every freaking time is evidence enough of his lack of leadership on foreign policy issues. If he was a "true leader" his followers wouldn't have to scramble to do damage control every time he speaks on international issues.
 
2014-03-04 11:25:11 AM  

T-Servo: [i151.photobucket.com image 750x500]


i915.photobucket.com
 
2014-03-04 11:25:49 AM  

JusticeandIndependence: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Ok, lets be perfectly clear. I do not want to "do something" if that includes gun powder or jet fuel.

So drones are ok then?


What do drones run on, prayer?
 
2014-03-04 11:26:32 AM  

threedingers: It's simple. When Obama decides to take unilateral action that the GOP doesn't like he's a tyrant. When he doesn't take unilateral action that the GOP wants, he's spineless.

Clearly Obama needs to anticipate exactly what the GOP wants him to do, when they want him to do it and just get on with it. It's what a true leader would do.


Well said.

but if he did what they wanted him to do, they would change what it is and then he would be wrong again. He will never be able to do anything right in the eyes of the Republicans.
 
2014-03-04 11:27:12 AM  
He has a phone and a pen.
all is good.
 
2014-03-04 11:27:25 AM  

threedingers: It's simple. When Obama decides to take unilateral action that the GOP doesn't like he's a tyrant. When he doesn't take unilateral action that the GOP wants, he's spineless.

Clearly Obama needs to anticipate exactly what the GOP wants him to do, when they want him to do it and just get on with it. It's what a true leader would do.


Like ObamaCare!
 
2014-03-04 11:27:43 AM  

hubiestubert: [lh4.googleusercontent.com image 298x500]


You forgot papist. He is also a secret Catholic.
 
2014-03-04 11:27:45 AM  
Lucky LaRue:
The fact that the GOPs talking points send you guys into such a tizzy every freaking time is evidence enough of his lack of leadership on foreign policy issues. If he was a "true leader" his followers wouldn't have to scramble to do damage control every time he speaks on international issues.

Damage control for what?  Specifically what should he be doing that he is not already doing.    Vague "true leadership" BS is useless.
 
2014-03-04 11:28:41 AM  
Why do I have the feeling that as soon as Obama sends one troop into the Ukraine the Republicans will become the biggest pacifists on the face of the earth?
 
2014-03-04 11:29:39 AM  

thamike: JusticeandIndependence: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Ok, lets be perfectly clear. I do not want to "do something" if that includes gun powder or jet fuel.

So drones are ok then?

What do drones run on, prayer?


img.defencetalk.com
 
2014-03-04 11:29:52 AM  

hubiestubert: In fairness, a weakened Ukraine, even a Ukraine minus Crimea if they break off isn't exactly a bad outcome for the Europeans


True, the Europeans have their reasons for being reluctant to go along with sanctions, although they've, uh, made mistakes before.

But I was just saying the idea that Obama's weak for not taking unilateral action is ludicrous (as I'm sure you'd agree).
 
2014-03-04 11:30:31 AM  

Lucky LaRue: Lionel Mandrake: Lucky LaRue: Lionel Mandrake: Lucky LaRue: I wouldn't call Obama weak, but he is making himself look like Putin's biatch every time he opens his mouth on the Ukraine topic.

What should he say or do?

Don't ask me; I'm no leader.  He might do well to take his cues from people who actually have a political presence that foreign leaders respect, though.

Of course...you know what he's doing is wrong, but don't know what's right.  As expected.

So, cues from what people specifically?  Or is that more ass-talk?

It's obvious he is showing weakness in this particular political situation, just like he showed weakness on the Syria question.  You would do better to face that problem rather than demand someone set up a strawman for you to knock over so that you feel better about your leader's questionable ability to command respect on the international stage.



He showed weakness on Syria but you're mistaken if you think he's showing it in this situation. I am no Obama fan, but I have to say, I think so far, he's been doing the best he can with the cards he's been dealt.
 
2014-03-04 11:32:00 AM  

Lucky LaRue: threedingers: It's simple. When Obama decides to take unilateral action that the GOP doesn't like he's a tyrant. When he doesn't take unilateral action that the GOP wants, he's spineless.

Clearly Obama needs to anticipate exactly what the GOP wants him to do, when they want him to do it and just get on with it. It's what a true leader would do.

The fact that the GOPs talking points send you guys into such a tizzy every freaking time is evidence enough of his lack of leadership on foreign policy issues. If he was a "true leader" his followers wouldn't have to scramble to do damage control every time he speaks on international issues.


There is nothing that happens on Fark that is evidence of anything regarding any country's leadership.  Just because the wishy-washy nothingness that is the GOP stays in the social conscious because of the YouTube comment-level mentality of their inexplicably loyal followers doesn't mean everybody else does.
 
2014-03-04 11:33:26 AM  

Pincy: Why do I have the feeling that as soon as Obama sends one troop into the Ukraine the Republicans will become the biggest pacifists on the face of the earth?


i151.photobucket.com
Obama needs to do something, like send a senior official to Ukraine. Especially if he were a combat vet. But we know that won't happen.
 
2014-03-04 11:33:27 AM  

thamike: JusticeandIndependence: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Ok, lets be perfectly clear. I do not want to "do something" if that includes gun powder or jet fuel.

So drones are ok then?

What do drones run on, prayer?


Not Jet Fuel...


The Predator's two fuel tanks combined carry up to 600 pounds of 95-octane to 100-octane reciprocating aircraft engine fuel.

Avgas (aviation gasoline) is used in spark-ignited internal-combustion engines in aircraft. Its formulation is distinct from mogas (motor gasoline) used in cars. Avgas is formulated for stability, safety, and predictable performance under a wide range of environments, and is typically used in aircraft that use reciprocating or Wankel engines.

Jet fuel is a clear to straw-colored fuel, based on either an unleaded kerosene (Jet A-1), or a naphtha-kerosene blend (Jet B). It is similar to diesel fuel, and can be used in either compression ignition engines or turbine engines.
 
2014-03-04 11:33:34 AM  

RexTalionis: thamike: JusticeandIndependence: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Ok, lets be perfectly clear. I do not want to "do something" if that includes gun powder or jet fuel.

So drones are ok then?

What do drones run on, prayer?

[img.defencetalk.com image 800x474]


DEATH FROM ABOVE!
 
2014-03-04 11:35:49 AM  

thamike: Lucky LaRue: threedingers: It's simple. When Obama decides to take unilateral action that the GOP doesn't like he's a tyrant. When he doesn't take unilateral action that the GOP wants, he's spineless.

Clearly Obama needs to anticipate exactly what the GOP wants him to do, when they want him to do it and just get on with it. It's what a true leader would do.

The fact that the GOPs talking points send you guys into such a tizzy every freaking time is evidence enough of his lack of leadership on foreign policy issues. If he was a "true leader" his followers wouldn't have to scramble to do damage control every time he speaks on international issues.

There is nothing that happens on Fark that is evidence of anything regarding any country's leadership.  Just because the wishy-washy nothingness that is the GOP stays in the social conscious because of the YouTube comment-level mentality of their inexplicably loyal followers doesn't mean everybody else does.


In politics, if you aren't staying in the public conscious (whether its with GOP wishy-washy nothingness or Democrats promise of rainbows and unicorns), then you aren't even playing the game.
 
2014-03-04 11:36:04 AM  

JusticeandIndependence: thamike: JusticeandIndependence: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Ok, lets be perfectly clear. I do not want to "do something" if that includes gun powder or jet fuel.

So drones are ok then?

What do drones run on, prayer?

Not Jet Fuel...


The Predator's two fuel tanks combined carry up to 600 pounds of 95-octane to 100-octane reciprocating aircraft engine fuel.

Avgas (aviation gasoline) is used in spark-ignited internal-combustion engines in aircraft. Its formulation is distinct from mogas (motor gasoline) used in cars. Avgas is formulated for stability, safety, and predictable performance under a wide range of environments, and is typically used in aircraft that use reciprocating or Wankel engines.

Jet fuel is a clear to straw-colored fuel, based on either an unleaded kerosene (Jet A-1), or a naphtha-kerosene blend (Jet B). It is similar to diesel fuel, and can be used in either compression ignition engines or turbine engines.


replygif.net
 
2014-03-04 11:37:45 AM  

Lucky LaRue: In politics, if you aren't staying in the public conscious (whether its with GOP wishy-washy nothingness or Democrats promise of rainbows and unicorns), then you aren't even playing the game.


You were talking about people's reactions on Fark, which has f*ck-all to do with anything important.
 
2014-03-04 11:39:04 AM  

UrukHaiGuyz: Russia would have just immediately vetoed Peace Keeping UN forces from it's spot on the Security Council. Wasn't ever an option.


Perfect. Then Russia admits that the UN is useless waste of the world's time or they have to admit that the people's well being isn't a concern.
 
2014-03-04 11:39:17 AM  

[READS FARK HEADLINE]


i78.photobucket.com


"Cool Hand Luke and Boss Keen's ditch."

 
2014-03-04 11:39:19 AM  
I don't like Dana Milbank all that much, but award that man one internet for this "A better explanation is Obama's critics are so convinced that he is wrong about everything that they haven't paused to consider the consistency of their accusations. "
 
2014-03-04 11:41:59 AM  

King Something: Republicans would side with Hitler before they would side with Obama.


"At least Hitler was decisive and patriotic!"
 
2014-03-04 11:42:09 AM  

hubiestubert: In that case, I apologize. These threads it's sometimes hard to keep track, but it IS on me to do so. Mea culpa.


It's the internet, where is the fun if you don't come in guns blazing sometimes.

And in your defense most people confuse "do something" with "start bombing".
 
2014-03-04 11:42:19 AM  

thamike: Lucky LaRue: In politics, if you aren't staying in the public conscious (whether its with GOP wishy-washy nothingness or Democrats promise of rainbows and unicorns), then you aren't even playing the game.

You were talking about people's reactions on Fark, which has f*ck-all to do with anything important.


Every time the GOP puts out a talking point critical of Obama and his foreign policy debacles (whether real or construed), the liberal machine leaps into action with a vociferous defense of their party's leader.  My observation that this wouldn't be necessary if he was possessed of true leadership ability isn't just confined to how Farkers react, but to how the entire liberal machine reacts.
 
2014-03-04 11:42:40 AM  

Wooly Bully: hubiestubert: In fairness, a weakened Ukraine, even a Ukraine minus Crimea if they break off isn't exactly a bad outcome for the Europeans

True, the Europeans have their reasons for being reluctant to go along with sanctions, although they've, uh, made mistakes before.

But I was just saying the idea that Obama's weak for not taking unilateral action is ludicrous (as I'm sure you'd agree).


I was more looking to back up the point, that trying to get anything like a consensus for action in this case is MORE than just trying to herd cats. It's not just Russia that is looking at a shake up in Ukraine as an opportunity. Europe is more than willing to let Ukraine burn down a few buildings, and shoot some civilians, if it gets them a better deal on gas and goods, and while Europe is willing to let them shoot up their own populace for a while, Russia has assets that they really don't won't f*cked with, and are willing to prove that point by sending in troops to keep folks from the western portion of the country the heck out of their backyard. That Russia stepped in before folks started shooting one another IS decisive action, and in this case, it might actually work to get the factions to focus on something OTHER than each other and their mutual distrust and bad blood. The Crimea looking to leave, and with backing, might actually be the best thing for these folks, and lead to a lot less bloodshed.
 
2014-03-04 11:43:38 AM  

hubiestubert: The Stealth Hippopotamus:  Ok, lets be perfectly clear. I do not want to "do something" if that includes gun powder or jet fuel.

In that case, I apologize. These threads it's sometimes hard to keep track, but it IS on me to do so. Mea culpa.


He just wants Obama to STAND UP to Putin and BE TOUGH to KEEP HIM IN LINE, but without Obama actually doing anything.
 
2014-03-04 11:46:12 AM  

Lucky LaRue: My observation that this wouldn't be necessary if he was possessed of true leadership ability isn't just confined to how Farkers react, but to how the entire liberal machine reacts.


There's a big distinction between defending Obama and being fed up with inconsistencies on the part of the GOP. Example: Lindsay Graham decrying Pentagon budget cuts, when he was central to the sequestration in the first place. I'm not in any way defending the White house budget, I'm saying Graham is a liar and a dumbass.
 
2014-03-04 11:48:36 AM  
BTW, Kerry is giving a press conference now- he only just learned from Andrea Mitchell than Putin denied any Russian troops in Crimea. Kerry's double-take was pretty funny.

/well, if this were a funny situation
 
2014-03-04 11:48:38 AM  

Satanic_Hamster: hubiestubert: The Stealth Hippopotamus:  Ok, lets be perfectly clear. I do not want to "do something" if that includes gun powder or jet fuel.

In that case, I apologize. These threads it's sometimes hard to keep track, but it IS on me to do so. Mea culpa.

He just wants Obama to STAND UP to Putin and BE TOUGH to KEEP HIM IN LINE, but without Obama actually doing anything.


I won't speak for anyone else, but from my own perspective, I regret that Obama has projected such a milquetoast image that Putin feels confident in thumbing his nose at the United States and its international interests.  If we had a stronger leader that made more confident foreign policy decisions and wasn't seen as unwilling to back his own policy decisions (as Obama did with Syria), then perhaps Putin would have been more inclined to have taken US interests into account.
 
2014-03-04 11:48:46 AM  

Lucky LaRue: the entire liberal machine


What exactly is the liberal machine?
 
2014-03-04 11:48:52 AM  
he should put out a photo of himself riding a bull shirtless.
 
2014-03-04 11:48:56 AM  

threedingers: It's simple. When Obama decides to take unilateral action that the GOP doesn't like he's a tyrant. When he doesn't take unilateral action that the GOP wants, he's spineless.

Clearly Obama needs to anticipate exactly what the GOP wants him to do, when they want him to do it and just get on with it. It's what a true leader would do.


avcssbasketball.com

GOP FOUL CALLED!

Obama is Presidenting While Black!
 
2014-03-04 11:49:07 AM  

RexTalionis: What's also funny is that I'm starting to hear people praising Putin because they think Putin is making Obama look bad.

For instance:

https://www.teaparty.org/giuliani-putin-leader-obama-read-latest-bre ak ing-news-newsmax-com-httpwww-newsmax-comnewsfrontrudolph-giuliani-vlad imir-putin-leader-ukraine20140303id555803ixzz2uwj1p3-36100/

http://www.teaparty.org/romney-putin-better-president-obama-33576/

https://www.teaparty.org/putin-humiliates-obama-u-s-media-ukraine-35 95 9/

http://www.teaparty.org/kristol-putin-acts-obama-affirms-35902/


If Obama could act the same way Putin can in Russia, Fox News would now be owned by the US government, Roger Ailes would be  serving 20 years for tax evasion, 1500 right wing radio stations would be playing nothing but country music, and the teaparty.org people would all be mysteriously murdered.

/I'm not kidding.
//Putin is a stone cold ruthless dictator.
///When China and Russia agree it's ok and Europe is as weak as ever, there is no play for the US. Don't care who is President.
 
2014-03-04 11:49:47 AM  

Lucky LaRue: thamike: Lucky LaRue: In politics, if you aren't staying in the public conscious (whether its with GOP wishy-washy nothingness or Democrats promise of rainbows and unicorns), then you aren't even playing the game.

You were talking about people's reactions on Fark, which has f*ck-all to do with anything important.

Every time the GOP puts out a talking point critical of Obama and his foreign policy debacles (whether real or construed), the liberal machine leaps into action with a vociferous defense of their party's leader.  My observation that this wouldn't be necessary if he was possessed of true leadership ability isn't just confined to how Farkers react, but to how the entire liberal machine reacts.


Really?

I live in a  liberal paradise (according to people who have no idea what the place is like), and many of the people around me are upset the President threatened Putin with "consequences"(nebulous as those may be), because they are tired of war, and tired of the President bombing people with drones, and generally mucking about as a hegemon.
 
2014-03-04 11:49:49 AM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: UrukHaiGuyz: Russia would have just immediately vetoed Peace Keeping UN forces from it's spot on the Security Council. Wasn't ever an option.

Perfect. Then Russia admits that the UN is useless waste of the world's time or they have to admit that the people's well being isn't a concern.


It all happened too fast. The Russians military in Crimea (which Russia still claims are mostly independent Crimean militias) had a plan ready to execute the moment Yanukovych was deposed, it seems. I'm not even sure that a resolution on the use of force could even come to a vote without Russia's support. The U.N. is notoriously slow to act. Obama has a firmer footing dealing with NATO for the moment, especially as that appears to be Russia's primary concern regarding Ukraine.
 
2014-03-04 11:50:44 AM  
Lucky LaRue:
Every time the GOP puts out a talking point critical of Obama and his foreign policy debacles (whether real or construed), the liberal machine leaps into action with a vociferous defense of their party's leader.  My observation that this wouldn't be necessary if he was possessed of true leadership ability isn't just confined to how Farkers react, but to how the entire liberal machine reacts.

Can you actually make some sort of point?  You come one here kvetching that Obama isn't showing "leadership" and when asked simply to describe how Obama is being weak and what he should be doing differently you immediately retreated into "the liberal machine is defends Obama no matter what!"

Since you seem unable to actually articulate what the hell it is you think Obama is doing wrong you have pretty much given up your right to b pissy that people are defending him against your vague and hyperbolic accusations.
 
2014-03-04 11:51:40 AM  

hubiestubert: That Russia stepped in before folks started shooting one another IS decisive action, and in this case, it might actually work to get the factions to focus on something OTHER than each other and their mutual distrust and bad blood


Wow, you really are much more optimistic than me. I see everything Russia has done there as deliberately stoking partisan hatred.
 
2014-03-04 11:53:04 AM  

Satanic_Hamster: hubiestubert: The Stealth Hippopotamus:  Ok, lets be perfectly clear. I do not want to "do something" if that includes gun powder or jet fuel.

In that case, I apologize. These threads it's sometimes hard to keep track, but it IS on me to do so. Mea culpa.

He just wants Obama to STAND UP to Putin and BE TOUGH to KEEP HIM IN LINE, but without Obama actually doing anything.


No, he was right. I took his stance to be something else, and I can accept being called on something. I know it's not proper Internet protocol, but I am old fashioned.
 
2014-03-04 11:53:37 AM  

T-Servo: Lucky LaRue: My observation that this wouldn't be necessary if he was possessed of true leadership ability isn't just confined to how Farkers react, but to how the entire liberal machine reacts.

There's a big distinction between defending Obama and being fed up with inconsistencies on the part of the GOP. Example: Lindsay Graham decrying Pentagon budget cuts, when he was central to the sequestration in the first place. I'm not in any way defending the White house budget, I'm saying Graham is a liar and a dumbass.


Thanks, that's a perfect example.  I am not motivated in any way to put up a vociferous defense on Lindsay Graham's behalf.  That is how you can tell that Graham is an effective leader - nobody needs to try to shout down the partisan chaff when it arises.
 
2014-03-04 11:54:33 AM  

BSABSVR: King Something: Republicans would side with Hitler before they would side with Obama.

"At least Hitler was decisive and patriotic!"


He was way too anti gun.
 
2014-03-04 11:55:51 AM  

Lucky LaRue: thamike: Lucky LaRue: In politics, if you aren't staying in the public conscious (whether its with GOP wishy-washy nothingness or Democrats promise of rainbows and unicorns), then you aren't even playing the game.

You were talking about people's reactions on Fark, which has f*ck-all to do with anything important.

Every time the GOP puts out a talking point critical of Obama and his foreign policy debacles (whether real or construed), the liberal machine leaps into action with a vociferous defense of their party's leader.  My observation that this wouldn't be necessary if he was possessed of true leadership ability isn't just confined to how Farkers react, but to how the entire liberal machine reacts.


Crazy-like typing detected.

Imaginary conspiracies always give you folks away.
 
2014-03-04 11:57:48 AM  

Lucky LaRue: T-Servo: Lucky LaRue: My observation that this wouldn't be necessary if he was possessed of true leadership ability isn't just confined to how Farkers react, but to how the entire liberal machine reacts.

There's a big distinction between defending Obama and being fed up with inconsistencies on the part of the GOP. Example: Lindsay Graham decrying Pentagon budget cuts, when he was central to the sequestration in the first place. I'm not in any way defending the White house budget, I'm saying Graham is a liar and a dumbass.

Thanks, that's a perfect example.  I am not motivated in any way to put up a vociferous defense on Lindsay Graham's behalf.  That is how you can tell that Graham is an effective leader - nobody needs to try to shout down the partisan chaff when it arises.


Okay

Okay

You got me.

I giggled at that one. I love your act, Lucky!
 
2014-03-04 11:58:52 AM  

Wooly Bully: hubiestubert: That Russia stepped in before folks started shooting one another IS decisive action, and in this case, it might actually work to get the factions to focus on something OTHER than each other and their mutual distrust and bad blood

Wow, you really are much more optimistic than me. I see everything Russia has done there as deliberately stoking partisan hatred.


Which will push Crimea to look on them as protectors, which will keep them in their sphere of influence. It's power politics to be certain, and hardly subtle, but it might wind up with less civilians killed in shelling and quiet disappearances. The rest of Ukraine, maybe not so much, but if Crimea goes, then they'll have other fires to put out, and they'll be looking to Europe further, and that will mean having to play nice.

It's not so much optimistic, than looking the pig in the face and seeing all the spots.
 
2014-03-04 12:02:18 PM  

menschenfresser: Lucky LaRue: thamike: Lucky LaRue: In politics, if you aren't staying in the public conscious (whether its with GOP wishy-washy nothingness or Democrats promise of rainbows and unicorns), then you aren't even playing the game.

You were talking about people's reactions on Fark, which has f*ck-all to do with anything important.

Every time the GOP puts out a talking point critical of Obama and his foreign policy debacles (whether real or construed), the liberal machine leaps into action with a vociferous defense of their party's leader.  My observation that this wouldn't be necessary if he was possessed of true leadership ability isn't just confined to how Farkers react, but to how the entire liberal machine reacts.

Crazy-like typing detected.

Imaginary conspiracies always give you folks away.


img.fark.net
 
2014-03-04 12:04:06 PM  

UrukHaiGuyz: It all happened too fast. The Russians military in Crimea (which Russia still claims are mostly independent Crimean militias) had a plan ready to execute the moment Yanukovych was deposed, it seems. I'm not even sure that a resolution on the use of force could even come to a vote without Russia's support. The U.N. is notoriously slow to act. Obama has a firmer footing dealing with NATO for the moment, especially as that appears to be Russia's primary concern regarding Ukraine.


The UN is very slow to act. That's the whole point. They'd gum up the works and get in the way. And it was just begging Russia or China to veto

Putin had this all planned from the get go, so we are playing catch up.
 
2014-03-04 12:05:02 PM  

Lucky LaRue: threedingers: It's simple. When Obama decides to take unilateral action that the GOP doesn't like he's a tyrant. When he doesn't take unilateral action that the GOP wants, he's spineless.

Clearly Obama needs to anticipate exactly what the GOP wants him to do, when they want him to do it and just get on with it. It's what a true leader would do.

The fact that the GOPs talking points send you guys into such a tizzy every freaking time is evidence enough of his lack of leadership on foreign policy issues. If he was a "true leader" his followers wouldn't have to scramble to do damage control every time he speaks on international issues.


Tizzy = pointing and laughing at the internal inconsistencies of GOP talking points.

Got it.
 
2014-03-04 12:14:25 PM  
I'm just really concerned that Obama isn't a strong enough leader and his inability to stand up to Putin makes us look weak... Don't ask me what he should be doing differently, of course, but he should definitely be doing something different.

*rolls eyes* Give me a farking break.
 
2014-03-04 12:14:45 PM  

Lucky LaRue: T-Servo: Lucky LaRue: My observation that this wouldn't be necessary if he was possessed of true leadership ability isn't just confined to how Farkers react, but to how the entire liberal machine reacts.

There's a big distinction between defending Obama and being fed up with inconsistencies on the part of the GOP. Example: Lindsay Graham decrying Pentagon budget cuts, when he was central to the sequestration in the first place. I'm not in any way defending the White house budget, I'm saying Graham is a liar and a dumbass.

Thanks, that's a perfect example.  I am not motivated in any way to put up a vociferous defense on Lindsay Graham's behalf.  That is how you can tell that Graham is an effective leader - nobody needs to try to shout down the partisan chaff when it arises.


i457.photobucket.com
 
2014-03-04 12:16:15 PM  

Lucky LaRue: I regret that Obama has projected such a milquetoast image that Putin feels confident in thumbing his nose at the United States and its international interests.


Funny since the old talking point was that Obama was a warmonger for using drones and intervening in Libya.
 
2014-03-04 12:38:34 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: UrukHaiGuyz: It all happened too fast. The Russians military in Crimea (which Russia still claims are mostly independent Crimean militias) had a plan ready to execute the moment Yanukovych was deposed, it seems. I'm not even sure that a resolution on the use of force could even come to a vote without Russia's support. The U.N. is notoriously slow to act. Obama has a firmer footing dealing with NATO for the moment, especially as that appears to be Russia's primary concern regarding Ukraine.

The UN is very slow to act. That's the whole point. They'd gum up the works and get in the way. And it was just begging Russia or China to veto

Putin had this all planned from the get go, so we are playing catch up.


My point is that in this instance (and in any instance where a member of the Security Council is acting aggressively) the U.N. is not helpful in any way, as it will not act unless sanctioned by the Security Council. NATO is the traditional (and more effective) deterrent against Russian aggression, and should be the unified front in opposing Putin.
 
2014-03-04 12:55:48 PM  

Lucky LaRue: I won't speak for anyone else, but from my own perspective, I regret that Obama has projected such a milquetoast image that Putin feels confident in thumbing his nose at the United States and its international interests. If we had a stronger leader that made more confident foreign policy decisions and wasn't seen as unwilling to back his own policy decisions (as Obama did with Syria), then perhaps Putin would have been more inclined to have taken US interests into account.


Your ability to contort reality to fit your preconceptions would be impressive to watch if you weren't so gleefully rooting for the decline of your own country.
 
2014-03-04 01:09:31 PM  
It's easier to curse the darkness than to light a candle.
 
2014-03-04 01:10:42 PM  

UrukHaiGuyz: My point is that in this instance (and in any instance where a member of the Security Council is acting aggressively) the U.N. is not helpful in any way, as it will not act unless sanctioned by the Security Council. NATO is the traditional (and more effective) deterrent against Russian aggression, and should be the unified front in opposing Putin.


Sorry, I think I didn't explain myself well. I dont think the UN will fix anything! Never has, never will. But what they are good at is gumming up the works and slowing things down. Which is what we need right now. I think the Ukraine is just the first step. Maybe if we slow it down enough the other countries in the area can get on a war footing it may make Putin think twice. And if Putin doesn't want to play along with the statesmanship he will lose China. Either way we just need to buy time right now.

Russian troops along the LIT and Poland boarder
 
2014-03-04 01:20:24 PM  
He is all things to all the wrong people.

Monday - He's a racist, spear-chucking, ni-bong monkey... a handin' out Food Stamps and rapin' our white women.
Tuesday - Dope smoking, abortionist who is forcing gay marriage down our throats and appointin' "activist judges".
Wednesday - Power-grabbing megalomaniac who refuses to compromise or work with House & Senate Republicans.
Thursday - Gun-grabbing, homo loving abortionist who should be impeached for destroying our Constitution.
Friday - Arugula-eating Poupon-slathering Harvard elitist with questionable college transcripts.
Saturday - Cowardly, weak-on-defense. drone shooting Commander-in-Cheat troops-hater that is destroying the military.
Sunday - Christian-bashing Kenyan Muslim usurper who worships Satan and Rev Jeremiah Wright with no presidential experience other than being a "Chicago politics" community organizer.

And the worst of ALL? HE'S BLACK!!!
 
2014-03-04 01:27:49 PM  

Lucky LaRue: menschenfresser: Lucky LaRue: thamike: Lucky LaRue: In politics, if you aren't staying in the public conscious (whether its with GOP wishy-washy nothingness or Democrats promise of rainbows and unicorns), then you aren't even playing the game.

You were talking about people's reactions on Fark, which has f*ck-all to do with anything important.

Every time the GOP puts out a talking point critical of Obama and his foreign policy debacles (whether real or construed), the liberal machine leaps into action with a vociferous defense of their party's leader.  My observation that this wouldn't be necessary if he was possessed of true leadership ability isn't just confined to how Farkers react, but to how the entire liberal machine reacts.

Crazy-like typing detected.

Imaginary conspiracies always give you folks away.

[img.fark.net image 530x260]


The ironing is delicious.
 
2014-03-04 01:33:01 PM  

thamike: Lucky LaRue: menschenfresser: Lucky LaRue: thamike: Lucky LaRue: In politics, if you aren't staying in the public conscious (whether its with GOP wishy-washy nothingness or Democrats promise of rainbows and unicorns), then you aren't even playing the game.

You were talking about people's reactions on Fark, which has f*ck-all to do with anything important.

Every time the GOP puts out a talking point critical of Obama and his foreign policy debacles (whether real or construed), the liberal machine leaps into action with a vociferous defense of their party's leader.  My observation that this wouldn't be necessary if he was possessed of true leadership ability isn't just confined to how Farkers react, but to how the entire liberal machine reacts.

Crazy-like typing detected.

Imaginary conspiracies always give you folks away.

[img.fark.net image 530x260]

The ironing is delicious.


Well, assuming you meant "irony":

www.charlieglickman.com
 
2014-03-04 01:33:09 PM  

Dahnkster: He is all things to all the wrong people.

Monday - He's a racist, spear-chucking, ni-bong monkey... a handin' out Food Stamps and rapin' our white women.
Tuesday - Dope smoking, abortionist who is forcing gay marriage down our throats and appointin' "activist judges".
Wednesday - Power-grabbing megalomaniac who refuses to compromise or work with House & Senate Republicans.
Thursday - Gun-grabbing, homo loving abortionist who should be impeached for destroying our Constitution.
Friday - Arugula-eating Poupon-slathering Harvard elitist with questionable college transcripts.
Saturday - Cowardly, weak-on-defense. drone shooting Commander-in-Cheat troops-hater that is destroying the military.
Sunday - Christian-bashing Kenyan Muslim usurper who worships Satan and Rev Jeremiah Wright with no presidential experience other than being a "Chicago politics" community organizer.

And the worst of ALL? HE'S BLACK!!!


my, you're a bitter little closet racist, aren't you?
 
2014-03-04 01:41:33 PM  
What is this "liberal machine"  people are always talking about.
 
2014-03-04 01:43:38 PM  
 Well, assuming you meant "irony":

Truly, a rapier wit, this one.
 
2014-03-04 01:44:52 PM  

durasells: What is this "liberal machine"  people are always talking about.


site.unbeatablesale.com

The gateway Liberal Machine.
 
2014-03-04 01:48:55 PM  

thamike: Well, assuming you meant "irony":

Truly, a rapier wit, this one.


Now *that's* ad hominem.  Keep working at it.  You'll get all the pieces to come together eventually and then you will really be able to put me in my place.
 
2014-03-04 01:51:03 PM  
img.fark.net
 
2014-03-04 01:54:27 PM  

Then, from what I'm told, it leads to:


ecx.images-amazon.com


s3.amazonaws.com


www.smartusa.com


img.fark.netimg.fark.netmiamiherald.typepad.comtheallegiant.comimg.fark.netimg.fark.netkattankudi.info

 
2014-03-04 01:55:54 PM  

Lucky LaRue: thamike: Well, assuming you meant "irony":

Truly, a rapier wit, this one.

Now *that's* ad hominem.  Keep working at it.  You'll get all the pieces to come together eventually and then you will really be able to put me in my place.


You're already fully wedged in your place, apparently.
 
2014-03-04 01:56:52 PM  
colon_pow:
my, you're a bitter little closet racist, aren't you?

Google any of the terms and phrases I used next to the word "Obama" and then tell me where I'm wrong.
Yes, clearly I'm the "racist" for pointing out your racism...
What, when you buy a white hood and robe like this I bet you get a free bowl of soup, huh?
Oh, it looks good on you though.
 
2014-03-04 02:05:42 PM  

Lucky LaRue: Now *that's* ad hominem.


Somewhere, someone is deeply regretting teaching you that word.
 
2014-03-04 02:08:34 PM  

udhq: Lucky LaRue: Now *that's* ad hominem.

Somewhere, someone is deeply regretting teaching you mentioning that word in your presence.


Sorry, I hate FTFYs too, but it applies to him.
 
2014-03-04 02:10:35 PM  

Dahnkster: colon_pow:
my, you're a bitter little closet racist, aren't you?

Google any of the terms and phrases I used next to the word "Obama" and then tell me where I'm wrong.
Yes, clearly I'm the "racist" for pointing out your racism...
What, when you buy a white hood and robe like this I bet you get a free bowl of soup, huh?
Oh, it looks good on you though.


ok.  i googled "obama rapes white women".
didn't see any accusations.
you're making this shiat up, aren't you, you pesky little race baiter.
run along now.
 
2014-03-04 02:12:49 PM  
Lucky LaRue:

Well, assuming you meant "irony":

[www.charlieglickman.com image 300x183]


No irony pretty much nails it.  You jump on this thread making a series of ad hominem attacks on Obama (you can't even articulate what you think he should be doing) and then spend the rest of the thread getting angry at "ad hominem" attacks being directed at you.
 
2014-03-04 02:17:25 PM  

durasells: What is this "liberal machine"  people are always talking about.


www.strangecosmos.com
 
2014-03-04 02:23:39 PM  

amiable: No irony pretty much nails it.  You jump on this thread making a series of ad hominem attacks on Obama (you can't even articulate what you think he should be doing) and then spend the rest of the thread getting angry at "ad hominem" attacks being directed at you.


If he mentions "obfuscation" Mandy Patinkin's going to reach through the internet and piss on his bagel.
 
2014-03-04 02:28:30 PM  

amiable: Lucky LaRue:

Well, assuming you meant "irony":

[www.charlieglickman.com image 300x183]

No irony pretty much nails it.  You jump on this thread making a series of ad hominem attacks on Obama (you can't even articulate what you think he should be doing) and then spend the rest of the thread getting angry at "ad hominem" attacks being directed at you.


That is due to the inarguable fact that he is rubber, and you are glue.  Whatever insults you hurl at him immediately bounce off, due to his consistency, and invariably stick to you.

/Checkmate, Libtard
//Time to fold your cards.
 
2014-03-04 02:36:48 PM  

udhq: Lucky LaRue: I won't speak for anyone else, but from my own perspective, I regret that Obama has projected such a milquetoast image that Putin feels confident in thumbing his nose at the United States and its international interests. If we had a stronger leader that made more confident foreign policy decisions and wasn't seen as unwilling to back his own policy decisions (as Obama did with Syria), then perhaps Putin would have been more inclined to have taken US interests into account.

Your ability to contort reality to fit your preconceptions would be impressive to watch if you weren't so gleefully rooting for the decline of your own country.


I dunno, his brand of willful ignorance and absolute lack of self awareness are sort of cute. Like a kitten stalking a full grown goat...
 
2014-03-04 03:38:13 PM  

Lucky LaRue: It's obvious he is showing weakness in this particular political situation, just like he showed weakness on the Syria question.


Donnchadha: [data3.whicdn.com image 420x294]


Nothing more to be said. Vague platitudes that essential boil down to, 'Obama bad.'

Literally everything he does is wrong to these people, no matter what he chooses. The fact that they can't even recognize it with themselves is the most pathetic part. "yeah I can't say what he should have done that I would quantify as 'right,' but it was still wrong, whatever he did that I don't even know about"
 
2014-03-04 03:38:23 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Lionel Mandrake: Don't feel bad if you don't. Not a single critic does.

I do.

And the President is basically doing what I would have done, just out of order. First and foremost you get the emergency meeting of NATO together. Confab and get a feel for what your partners are and are not willing to do. Then give a speech outlining what you you think is wrong and what you expect to have happen. Ideally you give it with them in the background nodding. That makes you look strong. Getting the people who can help in line to help. You don't look like you're isolated and you look like you have a little state craft working. If this was done early we may have been able to keep China out of it. I have a feeling Putin already had China shored up before the Olympics but maybe they would have gotten cold feet.

One move I would have done immediately would have been to take the "I have to protect my citizens" piece off the board. This could have been done by getting the UN to ship over Peace Keepers to monitor the situation. As I said before I don't think the UN can solve anything, but they can really gum up the works! Putin would be less like to start firing off rounds if blue helmets are in the way.


So it seem you are saying you would do everything the president is currently doing (including sending monitors, since that is one of the things the admin has been working towards), but you would have stayed completely silent, not even saying "there will be consequences" until you had some definite international agreement on what those consequences were.

Please try to answer honestly, what would your reaction have been if Obama just didn't comment at all on the situation as you are proposing?
 
2014-03-04 03:44:33 PM  

Lucky LaRue: threedingers: It's simple. When Obama decides to take unilateral action that the GOP doesn't like he's a tyrant. When he doesn't take unilateral action that the GOP wants, he's spineless.

Clearly Obama needs to anticipate exactly what the GOP wants him to do, when they want him to do it and just get on with it. It's what a true leader would do.

The fact that the GOPs talking points send you guys into such a tizzy every freaking time is evidence enough of his lack of leadership on foreign policy issues. If he was a "true leader" his followers wouldn't have to scramble to do damage control every time he speaks on international issues.


Wow, it took you a long time to get that talking point ready. Are you just a troll, or do you get paid by the post?
 
2014-03-04 03:48:27 PM  

Lucky LaRue: thamike: Lucky LaRue: In politics, if you aren't staying in the public conscious (whether its with GOP wishy-washy nothingness or Democrats promise of rainbows and unicorns), then you aren't even playing the game.

You were talking about people's reactions on Fark, which has f*ck-all to do with anything important.

Every time the GOP puts out a talking point critical of Obama and his foreign policy debacles (whether real or construed), the liberal machine leaps into action with a vociferous defense of their party's leader.  My observation that this wouldn't be necessary if he was possessed of true leadership ability isn't just confined to how Farkers react, but to how the entire liberal machine reacts.


Wow this guy kept coming back. I thought for sure he was a 1 and done threadshiatter.

It's weird isn't it, how baseless lies and hyperbole get shouted down, over and over again, by people willing to use facts and logic.

The only thing you should be worried about is why you're treating your political affiliation like a sports team, wearing your ignorance and gullability like a badge of honor instead of considering it shameful that you don't have the critical thinking skills to create your own arguments.

You've yet to use one factual basis in your method of argument in this thread. You have posted not a single valid or logical argument yet. And you don't even realize it. That, by definition, makes you stupid. Re-evaluate yourself.
 
2014-03-04 03:50:01 PM  

duffblue: Why did he feel the need to get involved in the first place?


We signed a treaty that Ukraine called on us to honor.
 
2014-03-04 03:53:29 PM  

Lucky LaRue: Thanks, that's a perfect example. I am not motivated in any way to put up a vociferous defense on Lindsay Graham's behalf. That is how you can tell that Graham is an effective leader - nobody needs to try to shout down the partisan chaff when it arises.


Damn, he baited me. He had me going until this. Now I just add another pathetic internet kid to the ever growing ignore list of people who think it's cool to troll.
 
2014-03-04 03:57:32 PM  

PsiChick: duffblue: Why did he feel the need to get involved in the first place?

We signed a treaty that Ukraine called on us to honor.


Actually not true, it was a memo (not ratified by the senate) and all it did was require us to take threats to their territorial integrity to the security council.
 
2014-03-04 04:06:04 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: Hey, all I'm hearing is that what he's doing is wrong. Beyond saying he's playing marbles or not being decisive, is there anything more to be said? I can't say he's being weak if nobody can say what strong would be


The important thing to remember is that Obama is doing the wrong thing.  What he's actually doing or not doing is beside the point.  It's just plain wrong.
 
2014-03-04 04:46:49 PM  

CanisNoir: He showed weakness on Syria but you're mistaken if you think he's showing it in this situation. I am no Obama fan, but I have to say, I think so far, he's been doing the best he can with the cards he's been dealt.


How did this delicious morsel slip by without comment?
 
2014-03-04 05:37:42 PM  

RexTalionis: What's also funny is that I'm starting to hear people praising Putin because they think Putin is making Obama look bad.

For instance:

https://www.teaparty.org/giuliani-putin-leader-obama-read-latest-bre ak ing-news-newsmax-com-httpwww-newsmax-comnewsfrontrudolph-giuliani-vlad imir-putin-leader-ukraine20140303id555803ixzz2uwj1p3-36100/

http://www.teaparty.org/romney-putin-better-president-obama-33576/

https://www.teaparty.org/putin-humiliates-obama-u-s-media-ukraine-35 95 9/

http://www.teaparty.org/kristol-putin-acts-obama-affirms-35902/


Sounds like a significant portion of the U.S. longs for an authoritarian dictator. I guess that's not surprising from a group of people who have so consistently voted against their own interests.
/jmho
 
2014-03-04 05:58:15 PM  
Man, how much cognitive dissonance do you choke down when you praise a corrupt, democracy-crushing, dictatorial, former KGB officer and openly declare he's better than the sitting U.S. president? Didn't a a lot of these same people hate communism with a passion back in the Cold War days? Now they're drooling after a Russian tyrant? Geez. What is wrong with human mental processes.
 
2014-03-04 06:41:17 PM  
imageshack.com
 
2014-03-04 09:18:46 PM  

amiable: Lucky LaRue:
Every time the GOP puts out a talking point critical of Obama and his foreign policy debacles (whether real or construed), the liberal machine leaps into action with a vociferous defense of their party's leader.  My observation that this wouldn't be necessary if he was possessed of true leadership ability isn't just confined to how Farkers react, but to how the entire liberal machine reacts.

Can you actually make some sort of point?  You come one here kvetching that Obama isn't showing "leadership" and when asked simply to describe how Obama is being weak and what he should be doing differently you immediately retreated into "the liberal machine is defends Obama no matter what!"

Since you seem unable to actually articulate what the hell it is you think Obama is doing wrong you have pretty much given up your right to b pissy that people are defending him against your vague and hyperbolic accusations.


So much this.
 
2014-03-05 02:31:18 AM  
Why are these people in MY party rooting for the Russian leader!!?
Do I hear a goddamn rooster crowing thrice here?


i.imgur.com
 
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