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(Washington Post)   Putin clarifies his position on Crimea: "I'm not using force, but I could if I wanted to, and it would be legal, so nyah"   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 158
    More: Scary, Crimean, Vladimir Putin, law enforcements, Russian Defense Ministry, pledge allegiance, Black Sea Fleet, European Russia, french foreign minister  
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2269 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Mar 2014 at 8:59 AM (24 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-04 10:19:35 AM

Rhino_man: SlothB77: So what does happens after Russia invades the Ukraine?  What happens after we let Russia get away with this?


I would hardly call "destroying their farking economy and forcing them to pull back without ever endangering a single American servicemember's life" letting them get away with it.

And make no mistake, that's exactly what we're going to do.  The Ruble is already in freefall just on the thought that our economic sanctions will come soon.  When they do, you're going to see Russia's economy looking just as shiatty as it did in 1992.


And when Russia cuts off 30% of the energy supply to Europe? What then? We send them the oil we are piping through the Keystone pipeline? Oh wait...

You are aware of the energy dependence in much of Europe on Russia... right?
 
2014-03-04 10:21:04 AM

dinch: Tigger: SlothB77: It Bush or Reagan were president, Russia would not have gone into the Ukraine in the first place.  Putin would have feared them.  Putin knew there would have been consequences.

Putin invaded Georgia under Bush.

Still all wrong all retarded all the time.

Saw McCain on the news this morning spouting the same talking points as sloth here. Something about "If we had the same military that we had when Reagan was in office, Putin wouldn't have done this, because he would have feared us." type BS. I think he even mentioned something about Syria, which always cracks me up. Remember Syria, John? Remember you saying that Obama had to do something to stop it, and when he finally decided to do something, you said he couldn't do that? Remember, John? And don't even get me started on this whole "size of our military" thing. The draw down hasn't even started.

Fer farks sake. Do these people REALLY believe this tripe they're spewing?


No, they don't. All that matters is the message that Obama and the Democrats are weak. Reality and the truth are quaint concepts but they don't really have a role in this discourse.
 
2014-03-04 10:21:53 AM

MyRandomName: Rhino_man: SlothB77: So what does happens after Russia invades the Ukraine?  What happens after we let Russia get away with this?


I would hardly call "destroying their farking economy and forcing them to pull back without ever endangering a single American servicemember's life" letting them get away with it.

And make no mistake, that's exactly what we're going to do.  The Ruble is already in freefall just on the thought that our economic sanctions will come soon.  When they do, you're going to see Russia's economy looking just as shiatty as it did in 1992.

And when Russia cuts off 30% of the energy supply to Europe? What then? We send them the oil we are piping through the Keystone pipeline? Oh wait...

You are aware of the energy dependence in much of Europe on Russia... right?


I know, right?! That pipeline would be totes done by now if 0bummer had just started it way back when!
 
2014-03-04 10:23:02 AM

MyRandomName: jaytkay: The fact that Obama has not taken decisive action is one of the clearest illustrations yet that Benghazi socialism muslim.

The fact that the Media and every liberal here mocked McCain and Romney when they mentioned Russia as a big global threat is jusy another example of ignorance. Obama even mocked Romney by saying the Cold War was over. Even farking Palin talked about how Russia was angling to take the Crimea region. farking Palin! And Obama seems to have been caught completely off guard.


Here we go again.

A)  When you've got somebody mostly behaving themselves, you don't name-and-shame them on international TV.  Thanks, Mitt.
B)  Romney said that Russia was our #1 geopolitical foe, then when pressed on the issue he specifically said it was because they refused to take action against Syria and Iran.  He didn't say a farking word about invading their neighbors.
C)  Palin said that Obama's weakness would prompt Russia to invade Ukraine.  She forgot to mention that Russia's invasion of Georgia had nothing to do whatsoever with the perception of "strength" around the President - George W. Bush.  He'd already proven that he was more than willing to invade another country, and Russia did it anyway.  Just because she guessed the next country doesn't make her a genius.
 
2014-03-04 10:24:54 AM
Just leavin' this here.

farm7.static.flickr.com
 
2014-03-04 10:25:07 AM

Epic Fap Session: FTA: "Putin blamed much of the disorder he described on the West, particularly the United States."

Wha?


The famous Russian Paranoia.  Anything bad that happens is because of the West, probably with the help of the US.
 
2014-03-04 10:26:58 AM

Rhino_man: Diet_evil: Rhino_man: SlothB77: So what does happens after Russia invades the Ukraine?  What happens after we let Russia get away with this?

[stormchan.org image 850x606]
I would hardly call "destroying their farking economy and forcing them to pull back without ever endangering a single American servicemember's life" letting them get away with it.

And make no mistake, that's exactly what we're going to do.  The Ruble is already in freefall just on the thought that our economic sanctions will come soon.  When they do, you're going to see Russia's economy looking just as shiatty as it did in 1992.

"I'd like to report an intruder in my home, he's kicked me out and is using my stuff and eating my food."
"Don't worry sir, we shut off his bank account and arn't letting him get any more food, he should be gone in a few weeks."
"Oh thank goodness I'll just chill on the street."

I'm not saying the US needs to go in if Russia decides they can haz parts of Ukraine, but some one should. Because hoping they "tucker out" while raping their neighbors is kinda farked up.

The whole situation is farked up, thanks to Putin... so now we have to find the least farked up way out of this situation.  Now, I dunno about you, but I'd say that getting them out with the fewest shots fired is the least farked up way to do it, because shooting at the Russians is likely to start World War Three.



Listen all but the biggest 'murrica tards don't want war, but if they decide to take the Ukraine or parts of it, its to late, we got war. Regardless of sanctions or hosed economics, the have started a war at that point. You can do your own research on groups that absorb neighbors with out retribution and come to your own conclusions about if the are likely to stop after just one or two.

We're watching a man across the street get  mugged and hoping that if we just refuse to do business with the mugger the wont be able to afford bullets and will then stop mugging people.
 
2014-03-04 10:27:22 AM

MyRandomName: Rhino_man: SlothB77: So what does happens after Russia invades the Ukraine?  What happens after we let Russia get away with this?


I would hardly call "destroying their farking economy and forcing them to pull back without ever endangering a single American servicemember's life" letting them get away with it.

And make no mistake, that's exactly what we're going to do.  The Ruble is already in freefall just on the thought that our economic sanctions will come soon.  When they do, you're going to see Russia's economy looking just as shiatty as it did in 1992.

And when Russia cuts off 30% of the energy supply to Europe? What then? We send them the oil we are piping through the Keystone pipeline? Oh wait...

You are aware of the energy dependence in much of Europe on Russia... right?


1)  Keystone XL would do nothing to help here, since it would send Canadian crude to the ports in Louisiana and Texas, and Europe is dependent upon Russia's supply of natural gas.  Natural gas, not crude.
2)  That pipeline is still a farking shiatty deal for the US.
3)  Russia would never voluntarily shut off its natural gas exports.  It's the only thing propping up their economy.  Shutting it down would just be cutting off their nose to spite their face.
 
2014-03-04 10:29:44 AM

dinch: Saw McCain on the news this morning spouting the same talking points as sloth here. Something about "If we had the same military that we had when Reagan was in office, Putin wouldn't have done this, because he would have feared us." type BS. I think he even mentioned something about Syria, which always cracks me up. Remember Syria, John? Remember you saying that Obama had to do something to stop it, and when he finally decided to do something, you said he couldn't do that? Remember, John? And don't even get me started on this whole "size of our military" thing. The draw down hasn't even started.

Fer farks sake. Do these people REALLY believe this tripe they're spewing?


Let's see:
Russian military now compared to any point of the Reagan administration?  While they've made a few good anti-tank missiles, the rest of their military is, at best, the same or worse then it was back then.  Much smaller, horrible readiness levels, navy and air power is a small fraction, etc etc.

US military compared to any point in the 80's?  We'd whup their butts.
 
2014-03-04 10:30:02 AM

Satanic_Hamster: ransack.:

Reminds me of this
[wellaware1.com image 850x599]

Wait.

I know conspiracy theorists are retards, but are they seriously claiming that in a coverup/fake shooting at a school they decided to use a massively famous skateboarder as an actor who would give interviews on camera?

That's retarded even for conspiracy theorists.

As for the subject at hand...  Yeah, Russia is bussing in protesters.


Yeah it's one of my favorite conspiracy theories, along with the Andrew W.K./Steev Mike theory, just because they are so off the wall bonkers.
 
2014-03-04 10:32:39 AM

Diet_evil: Rhino_man: Diet_evil: Rhino_man: SlothB77: So what does happens after Russia invades the Ukraine?  What happens after we let Russia get away with this?

[stormchan.org image 850x606]
I would hardly call "destroying their farking economy and forcing them to pull back without ever endangering a single American servicemember's life" letting them get away with it.

And make no mistake, that's exactly what we're going to do.  The Ruble is already in freefall just on the thought that our economic sanctions will come soon.  When they do, you're going to see Russia's economy looking just as shiatty as it did in 1992.

"I'd like to report an intruder in my home, he's kicked me out and is using my stuff and eating my food."
"Don't worry sir, we shut off his bank account and arn't letting him get any more food, he should be gone in a few weeks."
"Oh thank goodness I'll just chill on the street."

I'm not saying the US needs to go in if Russia decides they can haz parts of Ukraine, but some one should. Because hoping they "tucker out" while raping their neighbors is kinda farked up.

The whole situation is farked up, thanks to Putin... so now we have to find the least farked up way out of this situation.  Now, I dunno about you, but I'd say that getting them out with the fewest shots fired is the least farked up way to do it, because shooting at the Russians is likely to start World War Three.


Listen all but the biggest 'murrica tards don't want war, but if they decide to take the Ukraine or parts of it, its to late, we got war. Regardless of sanctions or hosed economics, the have started a war at that point. You can do your own research on groups that absorb neighbors with out retribution and come to your own conclusions about if the are likely to stop after just one or two.

We're watching a man across the street get  mugged and hoping that if we just refuse to do business with the mugger the wont be able to afford bullets and will then stop mugging people.


You see that part that I bolded in your post?  If.  IF they decide to take Ukraine or parts of it.  IF.
The whole point of the economic sanctions is to convince them that annexing it would be far more costly than just returning it to its rightful owners.  You're right about what happens IF the sanctions don't work, we'll have a war.  If they annex, it'll be an insurgency supported by the West.  If they try to partition Ukraine into two separate nations and have an independent Crimea, there will be a civil war between ethnic Ukrainians and ethnic Russians in both countries, with the Ukrainians supported by us and the Russians (obviously) supported by Russia... but you're throwing the baby out with the bath water when you advocate military action before even trying the economic route.
 
2014-03-04 10:33:37 AM

Strik3r: Quoted from Putin in the article...

"All we did was reinforce the defense of our armed facilities," he said. "They have been receiving threats because radicals, extremists were moving to Crimea. We hope we won't be forced to do anything like that in eastern Ukraine. We don't want to interfere, but all Ukrainians should have equal rights in shaping the future of the country no matter where they live."


You'll have to excuse me if I think the media is just OVER-HYPing this so the story will draw more attention.......


You're trolling hard or just retarded - first off - Russia sent armed troops to the equivilant of the state Capitol of Crimera - secondly they surrounded and have forced a frigate flying the flag of another nation to swap colors or die.

These are documented happenings and not "media over-hype" so kindly take your uninformed ass back to bed and let the adults talk.
 
2014-03-04 10:33:48 AM

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: Just leavin' this here.


Who's that third guy? Al-Zawahri or whatever his name was?
 
2014-03-04 10:37:08 AM

ransack.: Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: Just leavin' this here.

Who's that third guy? Al-Zawahri or whatever his name was?


Anwar al-Awlaki.
 
2014-03-04 10:37:37 AM

danzak: 4) give Putin a quiet way out of this. The man is an egomaniac, no way he leaves right now with all the international attention. He needs a quiet, back-channel way to end this.


He does seem to be the type that would double down on the crazy if we forced his hand too quickly and didn't leave him an easy out.
 
2014-03-04 10:39:34 AM
Why doesn't the EU do something? Policing the world has bled us dry. It's bad policy, unless we're getting paid taxes by the entire world, which we aren't.

And if the US is going to do anything, it has to be NATO at least anyway.
 
2014-03-04 10:48:51 AM

Rhino_man: ... but you're throwing the baby out with the bath water when you advocate military action before even trying the economic

... 

Whoa, thats not at all my claim. I think economics are essential to this plan, and should already be put in place if the claims of seized airports and government buildings are true, but the world needs to be ready to remove Russia when the new Ukraine that emerges tells them to kindly fark off.
 
2014-03-04 10:49:26 AM

danzak: Bomb Head Mohammed: spiral_fishcake: The headline reads "Putin says he will protect Russians in Ukraine", but will he protect Ukrainians in Ukraine?

putin's definition of "Russians" includes basically anybody who speaks Russian. This is like the English suddenly deciding to protect (US state name here) on similar pretenses.   It's all part of the general russia propaganda schtick where they count on people on the west not being able to differentiate between also-russian-speaking-ukrainian,  primarily-russian-speaking russian ukrainian, russian-ethnicity-ukrainian citize, russian-speaking russian citizen living in ukraine, "russian", "generally not for the EU", "likes Putin", "wants to join Russia."

the latter category in particular there are VERY few in ukraine, which is why russia had to bus them in over the last few days. The guy who planted the russian flag on the administration building in kharkiv?  a russian citizen from a russian ultranationalist group living in russia who came to ukraine a few days earlier on a tourist visa.  we even know his facebook page (where, bizarrely, he has pictures of himself in nazi regalia).

my company has offices in both eastern and western ukraine.   i have ethnic russians, ukrainians, and people who consider themselves ethnically jewish working for me.   half of them speak no or not much ukrainian.  and all, to a person, hate putin with a passion.   of course, these are self-selected young people who work for a western company, but it is telling.

This!  well said.

evidence of protester "tourists".  Same people, different cities.  Putin is bussing them in.

[scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net image 453x604]


He got the idea from Obama and CNN.

2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-03-04 10:50:58 AM
It finally hit me why Putin is doing this after reading this article:

To prevent a revolution in his own country

Seriously if some freedom minded Ruskies see a little revolt worked in Kiev to oust a bad leader, why can't it work in Moscow?

Putin can't have that attitude in his country....by getting all invadey because of a revolt in another country Russians have to think "this dude is nuts, what would he do if we tried to revolt here?"

My two cents
 
2014-03-04 10:52:07 AM
Send in The Rodman!!
 
2014-03-04 10:57:25 AM
WOULD YOU LIKE TO PLAY A GAME?_

1. TIC TAC TOE
2. CHECKERS
3.CHESS
4. GLOBAL THERMAL NUCLEAR WAR
 
2014-03-04 11:06:21 AM

Rhino_man: Diet_evil: Rhino_man: SlothB77: So what does happens after Russia invades the Ukraine?  What happens after we let Russia get away with this?

[stormchan.org image 850x606]
I would hardly call "destroying their farking economy and forcing them to pull back without ever endangering a single American servicemember's life" letting them get away with it.

And make no mistake, that's exactly what we're going to do.  The Ruble is already in freefall just on the thought that our economic sanctions will come soon.  When they do, you're going to see Russia's economy looking just as shiatty as it did in 1992.

"I'd like to report an intruder in my home, he's kicked me out and is using my stuff and eating my food."
"Don't worry sir, we shut off his bank account and arn't letting him get any more food, he should be gone in a few weeks."
"Oh thank goodness I'll just chill on the street."

I'm not saying the US needs to go in if Russia decides they can haz parts of Ukraine, but some one should. Because hoping they "tucker out" while raping their neighbors is kinda farked up.

The whole situation is farked up, thanks to Putin... so now we have to find the least farked up way out of this situation.  Now, I dunno about you, but I'd say that getting them out with the fewest shots fired is the least farked up way to do it, because shooting at the Russians is likely to start World War Three.


Why?

I'm serious here - Putin doesn't want to rule cinders and ghosts. He wants to be a tsar not a god.

So if we fight him with conventional forces in Ukraine and only fight to push his forces back to Russia it will not go nuclear - the other option is to sit back close our eyes and pretend Ukraine really likes it.
 
2014-03-04 11:06:42 AM

Rhino_man: Fista-Phobia: SlothB77: jaytkay: SlothB77: What happens after we let Russia get away with this?

What should the US government do?

provide military support to the Ukraine.  Any use of force by Russia in the Ukraine will be met with the use of military force by the United States in support of the Ukraine.

The Ukraine government that was ousted had outlawed peaceful protest after enduring continued peaceful protest for their unpopular policies.  The Ukrainian government-turned-dictatorship sanctioned the violent crackdown of peaceful protesters, which led to violent protest and its eventual ouster.  Russia entering the fray is as an imperial force supporting an ousted dictatorship.  It can only do this via military force against the will of the Ukrainian people.  It must be stopped at all costs.

[www.aboyandhiscomputer.com image 477x700]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

I love the fact that they haven't changed a bit in precisely 10 years.  Especially "Our Take: Goddamn liberal pussies are at it again!"


Remember during the debates when President Obama said that he'd send troops into Pakistan after Bin Ladin if the government of Pakistan would not, and the Republicans and their right-wing talking hairdo chorus called it rash and irresponsible?
Remember when the Republicans said we should invade Libya, and the president promised not to, and their right-wing talking hairdo chorus called it wimping out?
Remember when the Republicans and their right-wing talking hairdo chorus called for attacking Syria, and claimed that the president was weak for not doing so?

Because I do.
 
2014-03-04 11:06:57 AM

SlothB77: So what does happens after Russia invades the Ukraine?  What happens after we let Russia get away with this?  Will the rest of the world be a safer, more peaceful place or a dangerous, more war-torn place?  Will other rogue leaders be more inclined or less inclined to be aggressive?  Will our allies be more trusting or less trusting of our support?  Will our allies be confident that we are willing to help defend them if they are in peril?

And why is Russia invading the Ukraine?  Because the Ukraine just attacked them?  Because the Ukraine sent terrorists to attack Russia?  None of that.  This is pure Russian imperialism.  The USA didn't do anything close to this in Iraq.  We freed the people of Iraq from a dictatorship.  Russia saw Ukrainians exercising democracy, ousting a dictator and sent their military in to re-establish dictatorship.

By being a weak, spineless leader, Obama is making the world a much more dangerous place.  He is alienating and punishing our allies and rewarding our enemies.  No one fears Obama and that lets rogue leaders run roughshod over the world, lets them murder their own citizens.  If we let the Russians take the Ukraine, what is to stop them from going after Moldova or Belarus or Poland or Romania or Bulgaria next?  Or all of them


I agree with your first two paragraphs. But history has shown me that all but the last sentence of your third is irrelevant. Eisenhower let them get away with this shiat, too. The truth is that I am so cynical about the US willing to stand up to this sort of thing that I doubt even Reagan would have done much beyond boycotting something or instituting milquetoast sanctions.

The US will do the right thing, but only after exhausting all other options. That's not a reputation gained solely by Democrats.
 
2014-03-04 11:18:33 AM

demaL-demaL-yeH: Remember during the debates when President Obama said that he'd send troops into Pakistan after Bin Ladin if the government of Pakistan would not, and the Republicans and their right-wing talking hairdo chorus called it rash and irresponsible?
Remember when the Republicans said we should invade Libya, and the president promised not to, and their right-wing talking hairdo chorus called it wimping out?
Remember when the Republicans and their right-wing talking hairdo chorus called for attacking Syria, and claimed that the president was weak for not doing so?

Because I do.


For Libya and Syria they changed their minds so quickly based on what Obama was/wasn't doing that scientists are trying to figure out if the brain is actually a quantum thinking machine.
 
2014-03-04 11:33:07 AM

demaL-demaL-yeH: Rhino_man: Fista-Phobia: SlothB77: jaytkay: SlothB77: What happens after we let Russia get away with this?

What should the US government do?

provide military support to the Ukraine.  Any use of force by Russia in the Ukraine will be met with the use of military force by the United States in support of the Ukraine.

The Ukraine government that was ousted had outlawed peaceful protest after enduring continued peaceful protest for their unpopular policies.  The Ukrainian government-turned-dictatorship sanctioned the violent crackdown of peaceful protesters, which led to violent protest and its eventual ouster.  Russia entering the fray is as an imperial force supporting an ousted dictatorship.  It can only do this via military force against the will of the Ukrainian people.  It must be stopped at all costs.

[www.aboyandhiscomputer.com image 477x700]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

I love the fact that they haven't changed a bit in precisely 10 years.  Especially "Our Take: Goddamn liberal pussies are at it again!"

Remember during the debates when President Obama said that he'd send troops into Pakistan after Bin Ladin if the government of Pakistan would not, and the Republicans and their right-wing talking hairdo chorus called it rash and irresponsible?
Remember when the Republicans said we should invade Libya, and the president promised not to, and their right-wing talking hairdo chorus called it wimping out?
Remember when the Republicans and their right-wing talking hairdo chorus called for attacking Syria, and claimed that the president was weak for not doing so?

Because I do.


Pepperidge Farm Remembers.
 
2014-03-04 11:53:40 AM
Crimea was in Russia until 1953 and still has a majority Russian-speaking population. Ukraine has as much right to it as Germany has to the Sudetenland and Silesia. The international community should not be getting bent out of shape in order to preserve the capricious internal borders of the USSR.
 
2014-03-04 11:55:58 AM
The US condemning Russia illegal invasion of Ukraine?
2 words, Iraq, WMD's.
 
2014-03-04 11:58:38 AM

orbister: Crimea was in Russia until 1953 and still has a majority Russian-speaking population. Ukraine has as much right to it as Germany has to the Sudetenland and Silesia. The international community should not be getting bent out of shape in order to preserve the capricious internal borders of the USSR.


I guess we shouldn't worry if China invades Taiwan either.
 
2014-03-04 11:59:17 AM

orbister: Crimea was in Russia until 1953 and still has a majority Russian-speaking population. Ukraine has as much right to it as Germany has to the Sudetenland and Silesia. The international community should not be getting bent out of shape in order to preserve the capricious internal borders of the USSR.


The Crimean Tartars - ie, natives - want to remain part of a united Ukraine.
 
2014-03-04 11:59:52 AM

wxboy: orbister: Crimea was in Russia until 1953 and still has a majority Russian-speaking population. Ukraine has as much right to it as Germany has to the Sudetenland and Silesia. The international community should not be getting bent out of shape in order to preserve the capricious internal borders of the USSR.

I guess we shouldn't worry if China invades Taiwan either.


Interestingly enough, but Taiwan and China agree that they're one big country.
 
2014-03-04 12:00:14 PM
This is my last sheet of these awesome Russian pills, will sanctions affect my ability to buy more online?

i.imgur.com

The answer is no, because everything in Russia is for sale. Price might go up, though. Obama's fault!
 
2014-03-04 12:05:12 PM

WTF_Are_You_Looking_At: The US condemning Russia illegal invasion of Ukraine?
2 words, Iraq, WMD's.


WMD isn't a word
 
2014-03-04 12:07:24 PM

WTF_Are_You_Looking_At: The US condemning Russia illegal invasion of Ukraine?
2 words, Iraq, WMD's.


You can say a lot of things about W's Iraq War, but the paperwork beforehand was spotless.  (Well, spotless as these things go.)
 
2014-03-04 12:08:31 PM

youmightberight: Rhino_man: Diet_evil: Rhino_man: SlothB77: So what does happens after Russia invades the Ukraine?  What happens after we let Russia get away with this?

[stormchan.org image 850x606]
I would hardly call "destroying their farking economy and forcing them to pull back without ever endangering a single American servicemember's life" letting them get away with it.

And make no mistake, that's exactly what we're going to do.  The Ruble is already in freefall just on the thought that our economic sanctions will come soon.  When they do, you're going to see Russia's economy looking just as shiatty as it did in 1992.

"I'd like to report an intruder in my home, he's kicked me out and is using my stuff and eating my food."
"Don't worry sir, we shut off his bank account and arn't letting him get any more food, he should be gone in a few weeks."
"Oh thank goodness I'll just chill on the street."

I'm not saying the US needs to go in if Russia decides they can haz parts of Ukraine, but some one should. Because hoping they "tucker out" while raping their neighbors is kinda farked up.

The whole situation is farked up, thanks to Putin... so now we have to find the least farked up way out of this situation.  Now, I dunno about you, but I'd say that getting them out with the fewest shots fired is the least farked up way to do it, because shooting at the Russians is likely to start World War Three.

Why?

I'm serious here - Putin doesn't want to rule cinders and ghosts. He wants to be a tsar not a god.

So if we fight him with conventional forces in Ukraine and only fight to push his forces back to Russia it will not go nuclear - the other option is to sit back close our eyes and pretend Ukraine really likes it.


I, for one, am not eager to see all the Marines that I mentored when they were freshly out of boot camp (and I was a salty-ass Corporal, eager to get out) thrown into a massive wall of incoming 5.45mm rounds.  Especially not when the same exact goal can be achieved with none of them dying.
 
2014-03-04 12:08:31 PM

Crewmannumber6: WTF_Are_You_Looking_At: The US condemning Russia illegal invasion of Ukraine?
2 words, Iraq, WMD's.

WMD isn't a word


Sue me. :)
 
2014-03-04 12:21:31 PM

Rhino_man: I, for one, am not eager to see all the Marines that I mentored when they were freshly out of boot camp (and I was a salty-ass Corporal, eager to get out) thrown into a massive wall of incoming 5.45mm rounds.  Especially not when the same exact goal can be achieved with none of them dying.


Ukraine sent a regiment to Iraq with us. They threw their guys into incoming 7.62mm rounds for our benefit.

I'm not saying we should send an entire MEF to take care of this, but I think we shouldn't pretend that all they deserve is a kick in the pants and a "good luck!"
 
2014-03-04 12:36:06 PM

ransack.: This is my last sheet of these awesome Russian pills, will sanctions affect my ability to buy more online?

[i.imgur.com image 291x515]

The answer is no, because everything in Russia is for sale. Price might go up, though. Obama's fault!


What are those?
 
2014-03-04 12:46:24 PM

Rhino_man: I, for one, am not eager to see all the Marines that I mentored when they were freshly out of boot camp (and I was a salty-ass Corporal, eager to get out) thrown into a massive wall of incoming 5.45mm rounds.   Especially not when the same exact goal can be achieved with none of them dying.


While I agree wholeheartedly, why did you have to commit an xkcd foul, Ass-corporal?
imgs.xkcd.com
 
2014-03-04 12:52:25 PM
We aren't Team America: World Police.  When are we going to sit one out?
 
2014-03-04 01:12:09 PM

moeburn: ransack.: This is my last sheet of these awesome Russian pills, will sanctions affect my ability to buy more online?

[i.imgur.com image 291x515]

The answer is no, because everything in Russia is for sale. Price might go up, though. Obama's fault!

What are those?


50mg tablets of a drug called bromantane

I get them from awakebrain.com if you're wondering, and no, I don't work there or own stock or have any financial interest therein and I am not advertising or shilling that web site.
 
2014-03-04 01:18:41 PM

Rhino_man: youmightberight: Rhino_man: Diet_evil: Rhino_man: SlothB77: So what does happens after Russia invades the Ukraine?  What happens after we let Russia get away with this?

[stormchan.org image 850x606]
I would hardly call "destroying their farking economy and forcing them to pull back without ever endangering a single American servicemember's life" letting them get away with it.

And make no mistake, that's exactly what we're going to do.  The Ruble is already in freefall just on the thought that our economic sanctions will come soon.  When they do, you're going to see Russia's economy looking just as shiatty as it did in 1992.

"I'd like to report an intruder in my home, he's kicked me out and is using my stuff and eating my food."
"Don't worry sir, we shut off his bank account and arn't letting him get any more food, he should be gone in a few weeks."
"Oh thank goodness I'll just chill on the street."

I'm not saying the US needs to go in if Russia decides they can haz parts of Ukraine, but some one should. Because hoping they "tucker out" while raping their neighbors is kinda farked up.

The whole situation is farked up, thanks to Putin... so now we have to find the least farked up way out of this situation.  Now, I dunno about you, but I'd say that getting them out with the fewest shots fired is the least farked up way to do it, because shooting at the Russians is likely to start World War Three.

Why?

I'm serious here - Putin doesn't want to rule cinders and ghosts. He wants to be a tsar not a god.

So if we fight him with conventional forces in Ukraine and only fight to push his forces back to Russia it will not go nuclear - the other option is to sit back close our eyes and pretend Ukraine really likes it.

I, for one, am not eager to see all the Marines that I mentored when they were freshly out of boot camp (and I was a salty-ass Corporal, eager to get out) thrown into a massive wall of incoming 5.45mm rounds.  Especially not when the same exact goal can be ...


You think I want the soldiers I had under me (Now e6's and 7's) rolling their boys into a wall of t90's? NOT ON YOUR LIFE. But the alternative of letting Putin pull a page out of Hitler's play book is not an option. Show me something that will have the same immediate effect and also deter China from getting happy feet and I will support it. There is nothing short of force of arms currently being discussed that will put Putin back in his box and keep China from getting frisky in the Pacific.

It has to meet those two goals or we've pulled a chamberlin and can wave a piece of paper around for another year or two till Russia gets its military fully spun up.
 
2014-03-04 01:24:25 PM

smoky2010: Lt. Cheese Weasel: Send in John Kerry and his strongly worded letter stating how upset we are.

I thought Kerry was going to release a statement, stating that he MAY release a strongly worded letter to the UN, who should then send in Rip Torn with a bucket of strongly worded confetti for Putin to enjoy.


I'm sure you mean Rip Taylor, rip Torn is more likely to turn up with scotch and vicodin
 
2014-03-04 01:39:47 PM

sid244: We aren't Team America: World Police.  When are we going to sit one out?


April 7 - July 15, 1994.

Unless you mean the Ukraine, in which case, we sat it out in '32-'33, too.
 
2014-03-04 01:55:45 PM
Republicans were hysterical when they imagined Obama was sending troops into Libya.

Now they're masturbating to Red Dawn fantasies about going toe-to-toe with the Russkies.

Conservatives are weirdos.
 
2014-03-04 02:26:39 PM

Rhino_man: SlothB77: jaytkay: SlothB77: What happens after we let Russia get away with this?

What should the US government do?

provide military support to the Ukraine.  Any use of force by Russia in the Ukraine will be met with the use of military force by the United States in support of the Ukraine.

The Ukraine government that was ousted had outlawed peaceful protest after enduring continued peaceful protest for their unpopular policies.  The Ukrainian government-turned-dictatorship sanctioned the violent crackdown of peaceful protesters, which led to violent protest and its eventual ouster.  Russia entering the fray is as an imperial force supporting an ousted dictatorship.  It can only do this via military force against the will of the Ukrainian people.  It must be stopped at all costs.

Once again:
I would hardly call "destroying their farking economy and forcing them to pull back without ever endangering a single American servicemember's life" letting them get away with it.

And make no mistake, that's exactly what we're going to do.  The Ruble is already in freefall just on the thought that our economic sanctions will come soon.  When they do, you're going to see Russia's economy looking just as shiatty as it did in 1992.

/but you're right, starting WWIII is totes cooler


I don't blame obama for any of this. What can he do short of starting ww3? But you shouldn't respond to unreasoned posts about Obama responsibility for this mess with wild assertions that obama has single handily destroyed the Russian economy. The only reason the ruble, the Russian stock market, and gazaprom have gone to shiat is 52% of all Russian trade is with the the EU (a lot of which goes through the Ukraine gas pipeline), and another 7% or so of their exports go to the Ukraine, not to mention the terrified Baltic states who have their own hisotry of domination from Russia - Much of which is in jeopardy do to their imperial aggressiveness.

www.macromatters.es

so what do you want obama to do armchair generals?

the russians have already moved in their s-400 air defense into the theater (and god knows how many of the s-300s), the single most formidable ground mobile air defense system in the history of the world. it might take 4 aircraft carriers, a dozen amphibious assault ships, maybe ten thousand american lives, untold material losses, and god only knows how much money, to forcefully evict get them from the crimea. and for what benefit?

we know this, the russians know this, the russians know we know this. we are not a credible threat to russia unless they threaten a strategic interest because at that point all bets are off. obama could do all the saber rattling he wanted, it wouldn't matter.
what matters is the world investors can see that a shiatload of russian companies and the russian economy as a whole will take a bath if people start shooting because of russia's massive export dependence on Eurasia and Europe.
 
2014-03-04 03:26:51 PM

relcec: the russians have already moved in their s-400 air defense into the theater (and god knows how many of the s-300s), the single most formidable ground mobile air defense system in the history of the world


My money's on Patriot Block-3 as having that title. It's certainly proven. It has an excellent record when firing on American and British high-performance aircraft.
 
2014-03-04 03:30:11 PM

Rhino_man: Epic Fap Session: FTA: "Putin blamed much of the disorder he described on the West, particularly the United States."

Wha?

I've already gotten into it with people on twitter who think this... here's their farked up reasoning:
People are never unhappy with their own governments.  Therefore, people never want to revolt against their governments.  Therefore someone else must be staging those uprisings.  That somebody is the US.  Therefore, the US made Russia invade Crimea by causing the Ukrainian government to collapse with a staged, false-flag uprising.

Seriously.  That's what they think.



Oh wow, i made a comment yesterday that the US would end up paying the "Alimony" in Russia's marital Dispute with Ukraine... Maybe even try to "move in"

Aaaand looky what we have here!
about 50 billion more and Uncle Sam will have a new "partner" free rent for a couple of military bases, parking for war toys... sleeping quarters for friends and relatives..

A 1 billion payment is on the way
US cuckoldry at its finest

Russia will not sit still for that! I don't blame them for being pissed
 
2014-03-04 03:42:32 PM

JSTACAT: Oh wow, i made a comment yesterday that the US would end up paying the "Alimony" in Russia's marital Dispute with Ukraine... Maybe even try to "move in"


It's not any smarter today.
 
2014-03-04 03:58:49 PM

WTF_Are_You_Looking_At: The US condemning Russia illegal invasion of Ukraine?
2 words, Iraq, WMD's.


One is a word, the other is an acronym.  But thanks for giving us thinly sliced ham and calling it bacon!
 
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