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(Slate)   Today in "Nonsense To Get Outraged Over," someone says Andrew Jackson needs to come off the twenty dollar bill because he "engineered genocide"   (slate.com) divider line 103
    More: Silly, Andrew Jackson, Trail of Tears, Cherokees, history teacher, Harriet Tubman, Ralph Waldo Emerson, indigenous land rights, Davy Crockett  
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369 clicks; posted to Politics » on 04 Mar 2014 at 10:17 AM (38 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-04 09:06:26 AM  
Also, Ben Franklin was an adulterer who promoted farting.
 
2014-03-04 09:09:39 AM  
I mean...they're not wrong
 
2014-03-04 09:11:24 AM  
If all rotten bastards were suddenly ineligible, who would we put on our money?
 
2014-03-04 09:12:48 AM  

This About That: If all rotten bastards were suddenly ineligible, who would we put on our money?


Jesus and crying bald eagles, of course.
 
2014-03-04 09:13:38 AM  

BunkoSquad: I mean...they're not wrong


Not really.  When the Supreme Court ruled Indian removal unconstitutional, Andrew Jackson may or may not have said "John Marshall has made his decision, now let him enforce it."  Whether or not he actually said that, he definitely did go ahead and do it anyway.
 
2014-03-04 09:19:52 AM  
So, we shouldn't give a thing to the indians, but rather remedy their genocide by altering our currency.

That should comfort the savages plenty.
 
2014-03-04 09:24:43 AM  

nekom: BunkoSquad: I mean...they're not wrong

Not really.  When the Supreme Court ruled Indian removal unconstitutional, Andrew Jackson may or may not have said "John Marshall has made his decision, now let him enforce it."  Whether or not he actually said that, he definitely did go ahead and do it anyway.


Hm.

Before Andrew Jackson: Indians east of the Mississippi. After Andrew Jackson: Hardly any. Terrible President, in my opinion.

Regardless, I could care less who is on my money. I do find it amusing that he is there, considering his hatred of a central bank.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-03-04 09:26:50 AM  
Genocide is nonsense?  Maybe we could put Stalin on the $20.
 
2014-03-04 09:27:11 AM  
Yes, but BIG BLOCK OF CHEESE!!!
 
2014-03-04 09:27:26 AM  
Also seems like a good place to mention what I feel is a heartwarming story to counter the atrocious trail of tears:  http://www.irishcentral.com/roots/amazing-story-of-how-choctaw-indian s -raised-money-for-irish-famine-relief-234212611-237790401.html

On behalf of my Irish ancestors, thanks Choctaw people, you rock!
 
2014-03-04 09:38:51 AM  
The appropriate response is "we don't care that he committed genocide", not "He didn't do it".

Though I'm sure we'll have a few geniuses offering up the presidential equivalent of the Shaggy defence shortly.
 
2014-03-04 10:03:18 AM  
I'm confused, what are we upset about here. They are right, Jackson was horrible. He should not be on the 20.
 
2014-03-04 10:05:20 AM  
Aw, ain't this cute.. the far-left liberals have a cause to rally around, now.  We may be witnessing the birth of the herbal teabagger movement right here in this thread.
 
2014-03-04 10:18:17 AM  
I like Andrew Jackson Jihad.
 
2014-03-04 10:21:43 AM  

Lucky LaRue: Aw, ain't this cute.. the far-left liberals have a cause to rally around, now.  We may be witnessing the birth of the herbal teabagger movement right here in this thread.


Just for kicks, what are some specific policies that you would consider "far left" versus just "left"?

Because I get the impression from your posts that your definitions may not align with... anybody that doesn't have Free Republic or Stormfront as their homepage.
 
2014-03-04 10:22:23 AM  
Get rid of Columbus Day while we're at it.
 
2014-03-04 10:22:43 AM  

This About That: If all rotten bastards were suddenly ineligible, who would we put on our money?


img.fark.net
 
2014-03-04 10:22:59 AM  
We put a guy who failed to stand his ground on the $10, so meh.
 
2014-03-04 10:23:06 AM  
Andrew Jackson : American Indians :: Hitler : Jews


There's a reason why there are approximately 280,000 American Indians walking around today.
 
2014-03-04 10:24:12 AM  

FirstNationalBastard: This About That: If all rotten bastards were suddenly ineligible, who would we put on our money?

Jesus and crying bald eagles, of course.


and Reagan.  just different picture of Reagan.
 
2014-03-04 10:24:18 AM  
Well he did, but his picture on the twenty is at the bottom of the list of things I'm outraged about. Somewhere between the Mcdouble losing a slice of cheese and the fact that I can't buy a Crystal Pepsi anymore.
 
2014-03-04 10:24:58 AM  
I know native Americans that refuse $20's.  They would rather take $50's, $10's or a bunch of $5's.


At first I was like what?  Then I was like oh...

/eastern Oklahoma
//5 civilized tribes
 
2014-03-04 10:25:06 AM  

ManateeGag: FirstNationalBastard: This About That: If all rotten bastards were suddenly ineligible, who would we put on our money?

Jesus and crying bald eagles, of course.

and Reagan.  just different picture of Reagan.


Rocky Balboa!
 
2014-03-04 10:25:45 AM  

Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: Get rid of Columbus Day while we're at it.


No. It serves an important purpose of containing rampant butthurt and keeping it from ruining Thanksgiving.
 
2014-03-04 10:25:59 AM  

Britney Spear's Speculum: Andrew Jackson : American Indians :: Hitler : Jews


There's a reason why there are approximately 280,000 American Indians walking around today.


www.theawl.com
 
2014-03-04 10:27:25 AM  

nekom: BunkoSquad: I mean...they're not wrong

Not really.  When the Supreme Court ruled Indian removal unconstitutional, Andrew Jackson may or may not have said "John Marshall has made his decision, now let him enforce it."  Whether or not he actually said that, he definitely did go ahead and do it anyway.




The Supreme Court had no business listening to the Cherokee case. Forgein governments have no right to sue the US government in are courts. He was protecting Americans by removing a threat. That's his job as commander in chief.
 
2014-03-04 10:28:33 AM  

This About That: If all rotten bastards were suddenly ineligible, who would we put on our money?


Art Linklater
 
2014-03-04 10:28:38 AM  
Indians owned slaves and are currently acting to repress those freedmens vote. What the US did was shameful, but these are hardly noble savages here.
 
2014-03-04 10:30:42 AM  
I can't wait for the conservative apoplexy when President Obama gets put on currency.
 
2014-03-04 10:31:01 AM  

Britney Spear's Speculum: Andrew Jackson : American Indians :: Hitler : Jews


There's a reason why there are approximately 280,000 American Indians walking around today.


Fry bread?
 
2014-03-04 10:31:27 AM  

Epic Fap Session: Lucky LaRue: Aw, ain't this cute.. the far-left liberals have a cause to rally around, now.  We may be witnessing the birth of the herbal teabagger movement right here in this thread.

Just for kicks, what are some specific policies that you would consider "far left" versus just "left"?

Because I get the impression from your posts that your definitions may not align with... anybody that doesn't have Free Republic or Stormfront as their homepage.


Not true - I find the hard-right nut-jobs just as risible as the far-left wing-nuts.  But to address your question on what I consider "far left" - I think you illustrate the point nicely when you assume that anyone who doesn't agree with your liberal opinion must be a Stormfront racist.
 
2014-03-04 10:32:12 AM  
Granted, the U.S. as a country will be washing tons of blood from our hands if we're to actually recognize all the evils we've perpetuated as a nation. Forcing these sovereign peoples to ford the Mississippi, so that it's rare to see native Americans east of Cleveland these days is an unsightly historical scab, ushering in a sense of unease. Like a phoenix on the rise, we must do what we can to ensure that native peoples are from here on treated with respect and dignity so that their future is a brighter one than what we stole.
 
2014-03-04 10:32:35 AM  

Lucky LaRue: Epic Fap Session: Lucky LaRue: Aw, ain't this cute.. the far-left liberals have a cause to rally around, now.  We may be witnessing the birth of the herbal teabagger movement right here in this thread.

Just for kicks, what are some specific policies that you would consider "far left" versus just "left"?

Because I get the impression from your posts that your definitions may not align with... anybody that doesn't have Free Republic or Stormfront as their homepage.

Not true - I find the hard-right nut-jobs just as risible as the far-left wing-nuts.  But to address your question on what I consider "far left" - I think you illustrate the point nicely when you assume that anyone who doesn't agree with your liberal opinion must be a Stormfront racist.


So you can't name any policies then?
 
2014-03-04 10:35:40 AM  

Epic Fap Session: Lucky LaRue: Epic Fap Session: Lucky LaRue: Aw, ain't this cute.. the far-left liberals have a cause to rally around, now.  We may be witnessing the birth of the herbal teabagger movement right here in this thread.

Just for kicks, what are some specific policies that you would consider "far left" versus just "left"?

Because I get the impression from your posts that your definitions may not align with... anybody that doesn't have Free Republic or Stormfront as their homepage.

Not true - I find the hard-right nut-jobs just as risible as the far-left wing-nuts.  But to address your question on what I consider "far left" - I think you illustrate the point nicely when you assume that anyone who doesn't agree with your liberal opinion must be a Stormfront racist.

So you can't name any policies then?


You may not have noticed that this is not a policy thread.  Rather, it is a thread about a movement to get Andrew Jackson's face removed from our $20 bill.  Your instance for me to set up strawmen for you to knock over is misplaced in this instance, I'm afraid.
 
2014-03-04 10:38:14 AM  

Epic Fap Session: I can't wait for the conservative apoplexy when President Obama gets put on currency.


I always wanted a real 3 dollar bill.
 
2014-03-04 10:40:19 AM  

BunkoSquad: I mean...they're not wrong


They're not incorrect, in that the facts that they are asserting are not, in themselves, literally fabrications.

They are, however,  wrong, in that their conclusion is both incorrect and does not at all follow from their premise.

The only requirement to be on US money is for congress to approve such.  The only general traditional rules are that you have to be dead and presidents are generally usually preferred.  There is no requirement that they be perfect specimens of humanity 100% untouched by any sin or political black-mark.

Add to this, a practical note: there are  no historical figures without black marks of one kind or another on their record.  If we were to accept this logic, there should be nothing but basic geometric designs on any currency (possible, but silly).  Even animals and plants have various connotations and historical connections...

And, on a more moral note: you do not "solve" historical problems by censoring/whitewashing them away.  If you feel Jackson's actions were exceptionally  bad historically, then it's  good there are images around to remind you.  Mention it to your kids so if any of them grow up to be president they know not to round up the green-skinned space-babes of Cygnus 13 and march them across the ammonia rivers of their barren homeland so we can take their land after a century of back-and-forth warfare.
 
2014-03-04 10:40:27 AM  

Lucky LaRue: Epic Fap Session: Lucky LaRue: Epic Fap Session: Lucky LaRue: Aw, ain't this cute.. the far-left liberals have a cause to rally around, now.  We may be witnessing the birth of the herbal teabagger movement right here in this thread.

Just for kicks, what are some specific policies that you would consider "far left" versus just "left"?

Because I get the impression from your posts that your definitions may not align with... anybody that doesn't have Free Republic or Stormfront as their homepage.

Not true - I find the hard-right nut-jobs just as risible as the far-left wing-nuts.  But to address your question on what I consider "far left" - I think you illustrate the point nicely when you assume that anyone who doesn't agree with your liberal opinion must be a Stormfront racist.

So you can't name any policies then?

You may not have noticed that this is not a policy thread.  Rather, it is a thread about a movement to get Andrew Jackson's face removed from our $20 bill.  Your instance for me to set up strawmen for you to knock over is misplaced in this instance, I'm afraid.


You referred to this as a far left cause. I just wanted to see how you define "far left". Since you can't really define the term beyond saying "YOU!" I have to assume you base your reality on AM radio that deserves to be mocked and derided.

So, thanks for being a punchline. Keep posting!
 
2014-03-04 10:40:50 AM  

Lucky LaRue: Your instance for me to set up strawmen


is the correct definition of 'strawman' a far left policy
 
2014-03-04 10:41:25 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: Epic Fap Session: I can't wait for the conservative apoplexy when President Obama gets put on currency.

I always wanted a real 3 dollar bill.


Well, it can't be Lincoln, but how wouldn't Buchanan be better for the three? At least then we'd get to keep the famous expression...
 
2014-03-04 10:43:06 AM  
Well, he did.
 
2014-03-04 10:43:23 AM  
I read once that he felt if the tribes remained where they were they would eventually be wiped out by attacks from locals trying to take over those areas. He felt the only way to save them was to move them west. I don't know if that is true, just throwing it out there.
 
2014-03-04 10:45:17 AM  

Lucky LaRue: Epic Fap Session: Lucky LaRue: Aw, ain't this cute.. the far-left liberals have a cause to rally around, now.  We may be witnessing the birth of the herbal teabagger movement right here in this thread.

Just for kicks, what are some specific policies that you would consider "far left" versus just "left"?

Because I get the impression from your posts that your definitions may not align with... anybody that doesn't have Free Republic or Stormfront as their homepage.

Not true - I find the hard-right nut-jobs just as risible as the far-left wing-nuts.  But to address your question on what I consider "far left" - I think you illustrate the point nicely when you assume that anyone who doesn't agree with your liberal opinion must be a Stormfront racist.


Are you really surprised though? That's the liberal mode of thinking. If you don't agree with everything they do, you're either a racist, a homophobe, an anti-Semite, a bigot, a Nazi, a sexist, any combination of these, or any other buzzword they can come up with in order to shame you into falling in line.
 
2014-03-04 10:46:24 AM  
I propose a compromise. We remove Andrew Jackson from the twenty dollar bill because:

a) (for liberals) he drove the Cherokee off of their land and destroyed them as a tribe.

b) (for conservatives) he broke the first two Banks of the United States and destroyed the value of the dollar. Also he fought against state's rights.

As long as nobody explains why they support pulling him off our money both sides can be happy.
 
2014-03-04 10:50:49 AM  

Mid_mo_mad_man: nekom: BunkoSquad: I mean...they're not wrong

Not really.  When the Supreme Court ruled Indian removal unconstitutional, Andrew Jackson may or may not have said "John Marshall has made his decision, now let him enforce it."  Whether or not he actually said that, he definitely did go ahead and do it anyway.

The Supreme Court had no business listening to the Cherokee case. Forgein governments have no right to sue the US government in are our courts. He was protecting Americans by removing a threat. That's his job as commander in chief.


struckbyenlightning.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-03-04 10:52:02 AM  

Chakro: I read once that he felt if the tribes remained where they were they would eventually be wiped out by attacks from locals trying to take over those areas. He felt the only way to save them was to move them west. I don't know if that is true, just throwing it out there.


I read once that purple monkey dishwasher. I don't know if that is true, just throwing it out there.
 
2014-03-04 10:52:58 AM  

UrukHaiGuyz: Granted, the U.S. as a country will be washing tons of blood from our hands if we're to actually recognize all the evils we've perpetuated as a nation.


Not that the trail of tears wasn't historically a huge dick move, but you do realize that the history of US/Native relations isn't black-and-white in any way, and lives almost entirely in the grey spaces, yeah?

Depending on the tribe you're talking about, it varied from formally-recognized foreign nation (which, until the 1940s, meant taking their land by right of conquest was actually entirely legitimate so long as war was declared-- by both the native traditions and our own European ones), to trading partners, to amiable neighbors gradually assimilated, to peoples outright falling over themselves to sign up, right?

The vast majority of native blood in the lower '48, in fact, is currently in white people, since the last three categories encompassed most of the situations we ran into.

// Making your people out to be the bad guy in every part of history is just as stupid as making them out to be the good guy every time.  It's history, frankly if you have a hero or villain in your story at all, the vast majority of the time you're missing something important.
 
2014-03-04 10:55:10 AM  

Jim_Callahan: UrukHaiGuyz: Granted, the U.S. as a country will be washing tons of blood from our hands if we're to actually recognize all the evils we've perpetuated as a nation.

Not that the trail of tears wasn't historically a huge dick move, but you do realize that the history of US/Native relations isn't black-and-white in any way, and lives almost entirely in the grey spaces, yeah?

Depending on the tribe you're talking about, it varied from formally-recognized foreign nation (which, until the 1940s, meant taking their land by right of conquest was actually entirely legitimate so long as war was declared-- by both the native traditions and our own European ones), to trading partners, to amiable neighbors gradually assimilated, to peoples outright falling over themselves to sign up, right?

The vast majority of native blood in the lower '48, in fact, is currently in white people, since the last three categories encompassed most of the situations we ran into.

// Making your people out to be the bad guy in every part of history is just as stupid as making them out to be the good guy every time.  It's history, frankly if you have a hero or villain in your story at all, the vast majority of the time you're missing something important.


Mmmhmm. You guys are no fun. :/
 
2014-03-04 10:57:14 AM  

lockers: Indians owned slaves and are currently acting to repress those freedmens vote. What the US did was shameful, but these are hardly noble savages here.


I'm amused by the lengths some people will go to in their efforts to rationalize one of the bloodiest episodes of genocide in human history.
 
2014-03-04 10:58:08 AM  
 I think it would be a bad thing to start changing stuff like that from our history. It just feels a lot like white washing. Fark, if you have an issue with the past actions of someone like that then make the history about them known, this is the internet age. Otherwise you end up getting rid of almost every vestige of them from the history and it looks like someone who was revered was just some bad apple who no one rally liked anyway. Both people and history are complicated critters like that.
 
2014-03-04 10:59:18 AM  
I'd like to suggest replacing Jackson with Eisenhower.
 
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