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(PJ Media)   That couple that found $10 million in gold coins? They might not lose 50% to the government. They might lose all of it to the government -- except for a 25% finder's reward   (pjmedia.com) divider line 246
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16367 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Mar 2014 at 6:50 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



246 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-03-04 05:49:34 AM  
Subbs sounds vaguely surprised. I am sure the coins did not belong to the couple, so why would the real owner simply accept the loss after they have been recovered. Possession really does not mean ownership, no matter how often the cliche is trotted out
 
2014-03-04 06:54:16 AM  
Or they could have laid low and cashed them in one at a time but they had to be attention whores.

Duh.
 
2014-03-04 06:54:39 AM  
dumbasses for saying anything
 
2014-03-04 06:55:24 AM  
That's what happens when you advertise your good fortune!

Government taketh away!
 
2014-03-04 06:56:55 AM  
Two words: "Prove it."
 
2014-03-04 06:57:19 AM  
Wow. The comments in that article are weapons grade retarded.
 
2014-03-04 06:59:11 AM  
But, but GOLD. How can government take? FIAT currency! RON PAUL!
 
2014-03-04 06:59:24 AM  
Wow, the comments on that page are like potato-million worth in derp.
 
2014-03-04 07:00:13 AM  
They're going to lose 75% of the $10 million that they didn't have before?

Crimea River.
 
2014-03-04 07:01:09 AM  
This is why silence is truly golden.
 
2014-03-04 07:01:14 AM  
Let's see if thread confirms some of our cherished political stereotypes, such as which party takes the side of the "little guy."
 
2014-03-04 07:01:20 AM  

Marmilman: Wow. The comments in that article are weapons grade retarded.


It's pj media, what did you expect?
 
2014-03-04 07:01:31 AM  

Life_is_a_carnivore: Or they could have laid low and cashed them in one at a time but they had to be attention whores.

Duh.


That's probably the route I'd have gone down as well. Or at least have kept half the hoard secret when I went public with the other half.
 
2014-03-04 07:01:50 AM  
Sucks to be them, but what did thry think would happen when they went blabbing to the press about it? You really think our gub'ment is gonna pass on $10 million in gold?
 
2014-03-04 07:03:37 AM  
Those coins are so rare I doubt that one could sell them at all without drawing attention.
 
2014-03-04 07:03:40 AM  
Did you expect the the suckling piglets of Fark to be upset that the government is going to receive more money to spend on them, subby?
 
2014-03-04 07:04:20 AM  
Don't click on derp cites.

This actually a likely outcome, or are a bunch of internet lawyers going through random statutes and theorizing?
 
2014-03-04 07:08:22 AM  
So stolen goods remain stolen goods forever?

Makes me wonder why things like tax evasion can only go to court within 10 years. You bilked the state out of 10 millions 11 years ago? Well, you are in the clear.
 
2014-03-04 07:08:51 AM  
The longer I live, the more I learn the value of keeping my mouth shut.

That said, a 25% finder's reward is still $2.5 million, which isn't bad considering all that they did was stumble across some old cans while they were walking their dogs.
 
2014-03-04 07:11:47 AM  

Cybernetic: The longer I live, the more I learn the value of keeping my mouth shut.


and lawyer up
 
2014-03-04 07:12:01 AM  

HMS_Blinkin: Marmilman: Wow. The comments in that article are weapons grade retarded.

It's pj media, what did you expect?


Certainly not this:
"Every day the Federal Government steals money from those working and gives it to those who don't and even now they are asking illegal Democrats in Mexico to jump the fence and join in the rape of the United States Cornucopia for free, only their new votes are wanted. It's getting time to water the tree of liberty. "

Or how about more greatest hits from Obama's time machine?
"What if I don't believe the Federal Government? They're making this up, to try to swindle these poor saps who were dumb enough to brag about it. First, they had to pay taxes on material they found on the property they bought, which should at most be capital gains. Now, suddenly the government LOST the money! "

Or whatever the fark this is:
"Anyone who comes into a genuine windfall without the knowledge of the government, and who publicizes it is a living, breathing example of Darwinism in action. This is not our government. It is not our friend. It is not under the control of citizens. It is not held to either the law or the Constitution. If you have any wealth, tangible goods the government might take an interest in, or are not connected with those in power and paying guanxi or blat [блат]; anything you have that you do not want to be confiscated needs to be hidden away and/or removed to another part of the world where the US government cannot reach it. Think a Chinese peasant reacting when there are Mongol horses stirring up dust on the horizon. Think a Jew in Europe during the pogroms."

/and all that was from just the first page.
 
2014-03-04 07:14:45 AM  
They didn't build those coins, all they did was try to put them in a museum instead of keeping them for themselves. That kind of arrogance must be punished.
 
2014-03-04 07:15:39 AM  
Fox is gonna have a sad.
 
2014-03-04 07:16:20 AM  

Flint Ironstag: That's probably the route I'd have gone down as well. Or at least have kept half the hoard secret when I went public with the other half.


That would have been a mistake. Once the gold is out there experts would be all over it with a fine toothed comb. It wouldn't take long before someone added it up and asked where the other 5 million was.

I suppose you could have kept all the non-1899 minted coins. But even then, you'd definitely be under close scrutiny once you outed the hoard in the first place, and I doubt you'd be able to sell them without sending up a flag somewhere. Most likely with the IRS.

It's got to be all or nothing. Still, these guys will still get $2.5 million they didn't have before, and that's a decent jackpot by anyone's standards.
 
2014-03-04 07:17:14 AM  

HindiDiscoMonster: Find treasure.

Step 1: move said treasure out of USA to a country known for protecting it's banking customers (you can afford it now)
Step 2: move your family and assets out of the USA to a country where you can live like emperors till the day you die (that are unlikely to cooperate with US authorities
Step 3: obtain citizenship in new country, and renounce US citizenship
Step 4: with the loudest voice you can muster (no posting on the net) say:



Step 5: Enjoy your new life and fortune.


Yeah step 1 should be the first move after any windfall.
 
2014-03-04 07:17:31 AM  
Write the Feds a check for $28,000 and be done with it.
 
2014-03-04 07:19:11 AM  

Harlow_B_Ashur: Write the Feds a check for $28,000 and be done with it.


Well-played.
 
2014-03-04 07:20:15 AM  

Satanic_Hamster: Don't click on derp cites.


Like Salon, MSNBC, Think Progress, NPR, and Mother Jones? I don't.
 
2014-03-04 07:21:16 AM  

Harlow_B_Ashur: Write the Feds a check for $28,000 and be done with it.


And if they're smart, they'll hire a lawyer that will be able to argue exactly that.  $30,000 in currency was stolen.  $30,000 in currency was returned.

Hell, they could even return it  adjusted for inflation and only have to cut a check for about $900k
 
2014-03-04 07:21:44 AM  
So the coins were stolen 100 years ago.   What's the statute of limitations for grand theft?
 
2014-03-04 07:22:22 AM  

Harlow_B_Ashur: Write the Feds a check for $28,000 and be done with it.


Heh.... except that is what the Feds will base the 25% finder's fee off of.

The couple will end up with $7,000 in the end.
 
2014-03-04 07:22:43 AM  
Kudos to them for doing the right thing
 
2014-03-04 07:22:50 AM  
Next up: Uncle Sam takes all the coins, then charges them interest for the period of time the treasure was buried on their property. Or former property...the government will want that too, under civil forfeiture laws, given its use in the commission of a felony.
 
2014-03-04 07:23:15 AM  
The government giveth and the government taketh away.

Sometimes the giveth seems a little disproportionate to the taketh.

There seems to be a lot more takething going on.
 
2014-03-04 07:23:52 AM  

TerminalEchoes: Satanic_Hamster: Don't click on derp cites.

Like Salon, MSNBC, Think Progress, NPR, and Mother Jones? I don't.


As a general rule, if a website's ads are telling you to buy gold because gold's price never falls  even after the price of gold tanked in 2012 and 2013, it's because they think you're an idiot who will believe anything they tell you.

For example:  Democrats are the real racists in American politics.  That's what I have you farkied as.
 
2014-03-04 07:24:12 AM  

Do they get $2.5 million finder fee and then get taxed on that? That is what I would expect of the IRS.


Two things you keep your mouth shut about: finding money and sex with your teacher.

 
2014-03-04 07:25:24 AM  

HindiDiscoMonster: Step 1: move said treasure out of USA to a country known for protecting it's banking customers (you can afford it now)


That's a lot more difficult than you think
 
2014-03-04 07:25:41 AM  

Life_is_a_carnivore: Or they could have laid low and cashed them in one at a time but they had to be attention whores.

Duh.


That's probably what I would have done except maybe cash a little at at time ($10,000/month).  If anyone asks I'd say they've been in the family since uncle Leo died 15 years ago.
 
2014-03-04 07:26:25 AM  

Rhino_man: Harlow_B_Ashur: Write the Feds a check for $28,000 and be done with it.

And if they're smart, they'll hire a lawyer that will be able to argue exactly that.  $30,000 in currency was stolen.  $30,000 in currency was returned.

Hell, they could even return it  adjusted for inflation and only have to cut a check for about $900k


That's what I was just calculating too.  Seems like that would be a reasonable argument to make.
 
2014-03-04 07:28:31 AM  

HMS_Blinkin: Marmilman: Wow. The comments in that article are weapons grade retarded.

It's pj media, what did you expect?


Honestly, I didn't pay attention to the website's domain name when I started reading the article. Even still, the shiat that some of those people come up with will never cease to amaze me.
 
2014-03-04 07:32:34 AM  
upload.wikimedia.org
LOL
 
2014-03-04 07:33:29 AM  
Wow, there is some real Grade A derp in the comments of TFA.
 
2014-03-04 07:33:56 AM  
So far this looks like a little internet laywering to me.

But here's the rules on stolen items, there is a statute of limitations on the charges, but if the original owner is known then they or their descendents are still the legal owners.

For example, if they could prove that this money was stolen from (for arguments sake) a timber/shipping/mining/whatever baron, their family would still be the rightful owners.


And as said, they still get 2.5 mil.
In this case, the original owner seems to be the US goverment.
 
2014-03-04 07:39:20 AM  

GDubDub: Wow, there is some real Grade A derp in the comments of TFA.


Its PJ Media, the article was derp as well. Oh look, you found an ancient article about a gold heist. EVERYBODY PANIC THE GUMMINT IS AFTER YOUR TREASURE TROVES!
 
2014-03-04 07:41:01 AM  
They are going to be screwed by the presence of the "ultra-rare 1866 Liberty $20 gold piece missing the phrase "In God We Trust" - a coin which was never released to the public"

Makes it harder to prove these are not stolen from the US Mint.
 
2014-03-04 07:42:12 AM  
Should have melted it all down and made non-descript bars...
 
2014-03-04 07:44:37 AM  
NEVER tell anyone you just found a load of gold.

Except me of course. I`ll buy it off you for a good price.

Melt it down. Then you just have a load of gold that cannot be traced back to an owner. Turn it into nuggets. Throw the gold onto the ground molten to mae nuggets and say you found the nuggets like that to the guy who is buying it without any questions...

Once you have the cash in your hand and can afford a good lawyer THEN say "Look at MEEEEEEE! I`M AN ATTENTION WHORE!!!".
 
2014-03-04 07:45:17 AM  

baka-san: So far this looks like a little internet laywering to me.

But here's the rules on stolen items, there is a statute of limitations on the charges, but if the original owner is known then they or their descendents are still the legal owners.

For example, if they could prove that this money was stolen from (for arguments sake) a timber/shipping/mining/whatever baron, their family would still be the rightful owners.


And as said, they still get 2.5 mil.
In this case, the original owner seems to be the US goverment.


Sounds like bullshiat to me, it can't be proven the US Mint is owned by the US Government.
 
2014-03-04 07:45:25 AM  

Maledeus: Should have melted it all down and made non-descript bars...


ninja`d :(
 
2014-03-04 07:47:47 AM  
Let's recap: Extremely dubious assertion by a blogger leads to heavy derp from Lower Wingnuttia. Move along, nothing to see, etc., etc.
 
2014-03-04 07:48:35 AM  
Government should do themselves a PR favor and not get all grabby in situations like this.
 
2014-03-04 07:48:37 AM  

dready zim: Melt it down. Then you just have a load of gold that cannot be traced back to an owner. Turn it into nuggets. Throw the gold onto the ground molten to mae nuggets and say you found the nuggets like that to the guy who is buying it without any questions...


Brilliant!

Turn $10M in gold into $48k in gold because if you don't, you may only get $2.5M in cash.  Possibly.

/you should run a seminar
 
2014-03-04 07:49:42 AM  

dready zim: NEVER tell anyone you just found a load of gold.

Except me of course. I`ll buy it off you for a good price.

Melt it down. Then you just have a load of gold that cannot be traced back to an owner. Turn it into nuggets. Throw the gold onto the ground molten to mae nuggets and say you found the nuggets like that to the guy who is buying it without any questions...

Once you have the cash in your hand and can afford a good lawyer THEN say "Look at MEEEEEEE! I`M AN ATTENTION WHORE!!!".


Destroying American history in the name of profit. How very Republican of you.
 
2014-03-04 07:51:00 AM  

colinspooky: Subbs sounds vaguely surprised. I am sure the coins did not belong to the couple, so why would the real owner simply accept the loss after they have been recovered. Possession really does not mean ownership, no matter how often the cliche is trotted out


The owner abandoned it on their land. After a certain amount of time, it is theirs. If it was stolen, the owner or an insurance company can make a claim on it. It still doesn't belong to the government.

/legal disclaimer: I do not have a GED in law. Do not take my legal advice.
 
2014-03-04 07:52:21 AM  

Maledeus: Should have melted it all down and made non-descript bars...


dready zim: NEVER tell anyone you just found a load of gold.

Except me of course. I`ll buy it off you for a good price.

Melt it down. Then you just have a load of gold that cannot be traced back to an owner. Turn it into nuggets. Throw the gold onto the ground molten to mae nuggets and say you found the nuggets like that to the guy who is buying it without any questions...

Once you have the cash in your hand and can afford a good lawyer THEN say "Look at MEEEEEEE! I`M AN ATTENTION WHORE!!!".


Except the 25% finders fee is probably going to be far more than the melt value of the entire horde.
 
2014-03-04 07:53:12 AM  

Nuclear Monk: Rhino_man: Harlow_B_Ashur: Write the Feds a check for $28,000 and be done with it.

And if they're smart, they'll hire a lawyer that will be able to argue exactly that.  $30,000 in currency was stolen.  $30,000 in currency was returned.

Hell, they could even return it  adjusted for inflation and only have to cut a check for about $900k

That's what I was just calculating too.  Seems like that would be a reasonable argument to make.


To which, I'm sure, the Government would argue that the physical stolen property itself is what must be returned.  The finder's lawyer would surely then argue that the actual currency stolen only needs to be held by the government when used as evidence in a criminal trial against the thief, and since the thief is CLEARLY dead, a return of equivalent face value after inflation should suffice.

It's murky on both sides, and it would depend on the judge if it came to that... but I'm sure most judges would be sympathetic to the finders and agree to the $900k figure.
 
2014-03-04 07:53:39 AM  

threadjackistan: Maledeus: Should have melted it all down and made non-descript bars...

dready zim: NEVER tell anyone you just found a load of gold.

Except me of course. I`ll buy it off you for a good price.

Melt it down. Then you just have a load of gold that cannot be traced back to an owner. Turn it into nuggets. Throw the gold onto the ground molten to mae nuggets and say you found the nuggets like that to the guy who is buying it without any questions...

Once you have the cash in your hand and can afford a good lawyer THEN say "Look at MEEEEEEE! I`M AN ATTENTION WHORE!!!".

Except the 25% finders fee is probably going to be far more than the melt value of the entire hordehoard.

/FTFM
 
2014-03-04 07:53:40 AM  

MayoSlather: Government should do themselves a PR favor and not get all grabby in situations like this.


Why would a government care about being popluar?

What if a government becomes so unpopular, that the leader has to flee?
That's when Putin gets all land-grabby and comes over in unmarked vehicles and just hangs out.

Do YOU want Putin in you naval bases, setting you up the bomb?

/Didn't think so.
 
2014-03-04 07:56:38 AM  

badhatharry: If it was stolen, the owner or an insurance company can make a claim on it. It still doesn't belong to the government.


IF IT WAS STOLEN FROM THE MINT THE GOVERNMENT WAS THE OWNER!!!!
 
2014-03-04 07:56:52 AM  

lucksi: So stolen goods remain stolen goods forever?

Makes me wonder why things like tax evasion can only go to court within 10 years. You bilked the state out of 10 millions 11 years ago? Well, you are in the clear.


Worked for Mitt Romney.
 
2014-03-04 07:57:58 AM  

Bad_Seed: But, but GOLD. How can government take? FIAT currency! RON PAUL!


Fix it Again, Tony currency?
 
2014-03-04 08:00:21 AM  
Wow, some of you are exceptionally dumb. Does anybody think they could have sold these coins without it being big news? Absolute best case scenario, they would have gotten 5-10 cents on the dollar, and risk getting in trouble for not reporting that on their taxes.

Also, the government can only take the coins if they prove they were stolen. That's only fair though. If you leave your phone in the back of a cab, does it suddenly become property of the next person in the taxi? Finders keepers?
 
2014-03-04 08:02:41 AM  

HooskerDoo: Those coins are so rare I doubt that one could sell them at all without drawing attention.


Get a crucible and an oxy torch and melt it down
 
2014-03-04 08:03:25 AM  

HindiDiscoMonster: BiffDangler: HindiDiscoMonster: Step 1: move said treasure out of USA to a country known for protecting it's banking customers (you can afford it now)

That's a lot more difficult than you think



Just make sure to package it as a coin collection would be packaged first in case of inspection... send it right to the bank (whom you have made prior arrangements with).


/NSA disclaimer: Information is provided here for entertainment purposes only. This information is not intended to be used in any way to defraud the US Government or any entity therein.


i have a feeling you are going to get nailed pretty hard if you get busted trying to smuggle coins stolen from a us mint out of the country. best bet is to get a good lawyer asap and get your payday and move on with your rich life vs spending the next few years on your criminal trial.
 
2014-03-04 08:03:55 AM  

Savage Belief: You really think our gub'ment is gonna pass on $10 million in gold?


$10 million is a drop in the bucket for even state governments, let alone the IRS.  Hell, it's nothing to any decent-sized city.  No, there are two factors at work here, and revenue is neither.

One, the government is understandably, intensely jealous about any money stolen from it.  Finding it isn't a crime, but it's a blessing if you're allowed to keep anything other than a finder's fee.  To a very real extent, a government IS its currency.  So while the government has been known to let people walk away with items of various value (a friend of mine has a WW2 "lend-lease" pistol that is technically U.S. government property), if they suspect legal tender has been stolen they do not fark around.  The Secret Service was not founded to protect politicians; that is their most famous but secondary objective.  Their primary purpose, to this day, is to protect the integrity of U.S. currency.*

The other factor is that this is honestly a very good policy.  Blatant shameless hypocrisy aside, it's in society's best interests that people create wealth through productivity than dig holes in their backyards looking for lost treasure.  If I was King for a day I'd do away with all sorts of government corruption, Vlad the Impaler style, but this is one particular idea I wouldn't touch; if anything I'd set the maximum recoverable amount (whether by taxation or confiscation-plus-finder's-fee) to 10%.  The alternative is the furthest thing imaginable from a meritocracy:  rewarding blind luck over productivity.

*Bailouts and corruption don't count; in those cases the government is giving the money away.
 
2014-03-04 08:06:46 AM  

baka-san: badhatharry: If it was stolen, the owner or an insurance company can make a claim on it. It still doesn't belong to the government.

IF IT WAS STOLEN FROM THE MINT THE GOVERNMENT WAS THE OWNER!!!!


I should read articles before posting.
 
2014-03-04 08:07:01 AM  

Shvetz: Wow, some of you are exceptionally dumb. Does anybody think they could have sold these coins without it being big news? Absolute best case scenario, they would have gotten 5-10 cents on the dollar, and risk getting in trouble for not reporting that on their taxes.

Also, the government can only take the coins if they prove they were stolen. That's only fair though. If you leave your phone in the back of a cab, does it suddenly become property of the next person in the taxi? Finders keepers?


For items of historic importance, finders keepers can hold true only if the finder has deep enough pockets to hold what they found. Most museums have to return what they stole from the Native Americans 100+ years ago, but the British government (through the British Museum) can afford the controversy and international court actions for the Elgin Marbles and the Rosetta Stone that they stole 200 years ago. Private individuals who come across 100+ year old gold coins that disappeared from a government mint do not have a chance.
 
2014-03-04 08:07:52 AM  

badhatharry: colinspooky: Subbs sounds vaguely surprised. I am sure the coins did not belong to the couple, so why would the real owner simply accept the loss after they have been recovered. Possession really does not mean ownership, no matter how often the cliche is trotted out

The owner abandoned it on their land. After a certain amount of time, it is theirs. If it was stolen, the owner or an insurance company can make a claim on it. It still doesn't belong to the government.

/legal disclaimer: I do not have a GED in law. Do not take my legal advice.


And if it was stolen from the government?  I saw something like this on some discovery Channel show. There were some coins that weren't supposed to be circulated stolen from a US mint in the early 1900's. Most of the coins were recovered soon after, but there were something like 20 or 30 still floating around. Over the next 20 or 30 years they were able to recover more of the coins as they popped up at auctions or people tried to sell them to coin dealers, so that know there are only I think 10 unaccounted for. And it is not believed that those 10 will ever be found because the people who have them know that if it is ever known where they are the government will confiscate them because they are stolen property.
 
MFK
2014-03-04 08:08:16 AM  
the problem with stealing directly from the US Government is that the Gov't is generally considered to be "immortal" legally.

I don't know why people are assuming that just because these folks are the current owners of that property that they have a "right" to whatever is on there. It's not like they bought a gold coin tree that naturally produces rare coins. They literally stumbled upon a cache of stolen coins and the owners are wanting them back now that they're found. "Finders - Keepers" might work on the schoolyard, but it's not a law or anything.
 
2014-03-04 08:08:53 AM  

rebelyell2006: dready zim: NEVER tell anyone you just found a load of gold.

Except me of course. I`ll buy it off you for a good price.

Melt it down. Then you just have a load of gold that cannot be traced back to an owner. Turn it into nuggets. Throw the gold onto the ground molten to make nuggets and say you found the nuggets like that to the guy who is buying it without any questions...

Once you have the cash in your hand and can afford a good lawyer THEN say "Look at MEEEEEEE! I`M AN ATTENTION WHORE!!!".

Destroying American history in the name of profit. How very Republican of you.


Your `history` only is as old as my grannies teeth. Show me something from the USA a thousand years old and I`ll be impressed. Then I`ll show you something thousands of years older than even your Jebus.

Also, your political bias is showing.
 
2014-03-04 08:09:41 AM  

Pumpernickel bread: HooskerDoo: Those coins are so rare I doubt that one could sell them at all without drawing attention.

Get a crucible and an oxy torch and melt it down


Ooh, don`t suggest that, you`re a Republican if you do!
 
2014-03-04 08:11:11 AM  
A couple of people have said it upthread, but bears repeating:

If you come into a bunch of money, a) shut up, b) get a lawyer, c) shut up.
 
2014-03-04 08:12:17 AM  

Rhino_man: As a general rule, if a website's ads are telling you to buy gold because gold's price never falls even after the price of gold tanked in 2012 and 2013, it's because they think you're an idiot who will believe anything they tell you.

For example: Democrats are the real racists in American politics. That's what I have you farkied as.


I got him as:
(favorite: Fark indy/douche / racist)
 
2014-03-04 08:13:19 AM  
God always gets His blood.
 
2014-03-04 08:14:02 AM  

MFK: the problem with stealing directly from the US Government is that the Gov't is generally considered to be "immortal" legally.

I don't know why people are assuming that just because these folks are the current owners of that property that they have a "right" to whatever is on there. It's not like they bought a gold coin tree that naturally produces rare coins. They literally stumbled upon a cache of stolen coins and the owners are wanting them back now that they're found. "Finders - Keepers" might work on the schoolyard, but it's not a law or anything.


There is a way the schoolyard tactics work. If you take someones lunch (because your mom is an alcoholic and just puts sugar packets in your lunchbox) and eat it before the teacher arrives then you still have a full belly and, sans empty lunchbox, you can claim they are just trying to get you into trouble because you mom is an alcoholic. In the absence of any other evidence you`ll probably be ok as long as it doesn`t happen often.

Some things that are not laws still work inside the legal framework, you just need no morals.
 
2014-03-04 08:15:33 AM  

dready zim: rebelyell2006: dready zim: NEVER tell anyone you just found a load of gold.

Except me of course. I`ll buy it off you for a good price.

Melt it down. Then you just have a load of gold that cannot be traced back to an owner. Turn it into nuggets. Throw the gold onto the ground molten to make nuggets and say you found the nuggets like that to the guy who is buying it without any questions...

Once you have the cash in your hand and can afford a good lawyer THEN say "Look at MEEEEEEE! I`M AN ATTENTION WHORE!!!".

Destroying American history in the name of profit. How very Republican of you.

Your `history` only is as old as my grannies teeth. Show me something from the USA a thousand years old and I`ll be impressed. Then I`ll show you something thousands of years older than even your Jebus.

Also, your political bias is showing.


You do know that Native Americans have been here for thousands of years. And Norsemen showed up a thousand years ago.

And who is Jebus? Is he from the Judeo-Christian pantheon?
 
2014-03-04 08:16:05 AM  
That couple that found $10 million in gold coins? They might not lose 50% to the government. They might lose all of it to the government -- except for a 25% finder's reward

Awfully clumsy way to say they might lose 75% of it.
 
2014-03-04 08:17:10 AM  
Capital gains taxes are the loophole the government uses to give you five squares back for every 6 squares ahead card you draw.
 
2014-03-04 08:17:32 AM  
You mean, someone found something that was not there's and are able to still collect 2.5 million?
I will still take it.
 
2014-03-04 08:17:53 AM  

flup: That couple that found $10 million in gold coins? They might not lose 50% to the government. They might lose all of it to the government -- except for a 25% finder's reward

Awfully clumsy way to say they might lose 75% of it.


not bad as it was never theres to begin with. if someone stole a brinks truck and parked it in your garage you are not now rich......
 
2014-03-04 08:19:31 AM  
Those poor people and their $2.5 million windfall. They worked hard to stumble across that unearned fortune!
 
2014-03-04 08:20:58 AM  

Life_is_a_carnivore: Or they could have laid low and cashed them in one at a time but they had to be attention whores.

Duh.


This.

My very first thought when the story came out was that they were asking for trouble or taxes, or both.

Best bet would be to sell them one at a time at different coin/gold shops.
 
2014-03-04 08:21:43 AM  

Rhino_man: racists


So, another thread where the only mention of racism is you. This is the only time the word racists is in the entire thread. No racism either.

You love the racism, don`t you.

rape, taxes, rape, racism, rape, terrorism, rape, black people, rape, children, rape, terrorists, rape, abortion, rape, obama.

Sarah Palin.

I bet you just came.
 
2014-03-04 08:23:47 AM  

dready zim: Rhino_man: racists

So, another thread where the only mention of racism is you. This is the only time the word racists is in the entire thread. No racism either.

You love the racism, don`t you.

rape, taxes, rape, racism, rape, terrorism, rape, black people, rape, children, rape, terrorists, rape, abortion, rape, obama.

Sarah Palin.

I bet you just came.


There are many threads on Fark. Do you think this one exists in a vacuum, or that the posters here do not have a reputation from their thousands of previous posts?
 
2014-03-04 08:24:35 AM  

poot_rootbeer: Those poor people and their $2.5 million windfall. They worked hard to stumble across that unearned fortune!


You hated "The Goonies"
didn't you?
 
2014-03-04 08:24:47 AM  

GoldSpider: Two words: "Prove it."


Yep. The government likely can't prove that they are the stolen coins, so it's just a nifty theory.

I had guessed that they were stolen, but I thought it was a mine's payroll that got knocked over, not the SF mint.
 
2014-03-04 08:25:42 AM  
If some of the sea salvage cases are indicative, the government will seize it all and claim no finders fee.  In fact, I wouldn't be completely surprised if an investigation for the receipt of the stolen property is begun as a way to force seizure of the couple's property (as an addition to "park land").
 
2014-03-04 08:25:58 AM  
"Grandpa gave those to me when I was a little boy."
 
2014-03-04 08:26:11 AM  

GDubDub: Wow, there is some real Grade A derp in the comments of TFA.


Um...there's some Grade A derp in the comments right here...
 
2014-03-04 08:26:24 AM  

dready zim: Rhino_man: racists

So, another thread where the only mention of racism is you. This is the only time the word racists is in the entire thread. No racism either.

You love the racism, don`t you.

rape, taxes, rape, racism, rape, terrorism, rape, black people, rape, children, rape, terrorists, rape, abortion, rape, obama.

Sarah Palin.

I bet you just came.


i.dailymail.co.uk
Tu quoques don't work on me, son.
 
2014-03-04 08:28:18 AM  

HindiDiscoMonster: Cybernetic: The longer I live, the more I learn the value of keeping my mouth shut.

That said, a 25% finder's reward is still $2.5 million, which isn't bad considering all that they did was stumble across some old cans while they were walking their dogs.

it only hurts a little if they rape rape you a little?


If the gold turns out to be stolen property, and the law says that stolen property belongs to the original owner, then the property goes back to the original owner--even if that original owner happens to be the government.

It would be great for them if they were able to keep the whole thing. If law says they can't, and they "only" get $2.5 million, they're still way ahead of the game. I don't see anything rape-rapey (or even just plain old rapey) in that.

If YOU were the original owner, I'm willing to bet that you'd want your property back.
 
2014-03-04 08:28:43 AM  
also why does everyone think they didn't consult legal council. he may have adviced them to go public and get as much exposure as possible for pr reasons realizing the gov was going to attempt to fark them on this.
 
2014-03-04 08:28:53 AM  
Here's your lesson about making things too public.  Just melt them down and sell them at market value.  Problem solved.
 
2014-03-04 08:29:38 AM  

GoldSpider: Two words: "Prove it."


my thoughts exactly
 
2014-03-04 08:29:53 AM  
dready zim

"Your `history` only is as old as my grannies teeth. Show me something from the USA a thousand years old and I`ll be impressed. Then I`ll show you something thousands of years older than even your Jebus"

Old = historic? Or is your point that because there are more artifacts in the UK over 1000 years old some sort of moral superiority is attained?
 
2014-03-04 08:30:39 AM  

dready zim: Your `history` only is as old as my grannies teeth. Show me something from the USA a thousand years old and I`ll be impressed.


That would be a really good trick, considering that the USA is just under 238 years old.
 
2014-03-04 08:33:54 AM  

SpectroBoy: Life_is_a_carnivore: Or they could have laid low and cashed them in one at a time but they had to be attention whores.

Duh.

This.

My very first thought when the story came out was that they were asking for trouble or taxes, or both.

Best bet would be to sell them one at a time at different coin/gold shops.


Again, you cannot slowly convert $10MM worth of extremely valuable gold coins into cash without someone noticing. Furthermore, if you're someone barely getting by and suddenly start acquiring millions in cash the IRS is going to notice. You can't deposit the cash in a bank without drawing attention, and are you really going to buy a new car or new house with cash? Hell I'm not even positive you can sell gold coins worth thousands a piece for cash without generating a govt form somewhere.

The only option would be to sell them so slowly that nobody notices which kind of defeats the purpose of finding a fortune. Even taking a 75% loss and then investing the remainder would be way more practical.
 
2014-03-04 08:35:23 AM  

dukeblue219: Again, you cannot slowly convert $10MM worth of extremely valuable gold coins into cash without someone noticing. Furthermore, if you're someone barely getting by and suddenly start acquiring millions in cash the IRS is going to notice. You can't deposit the cash in a bank without drawing attention, and are you really going to buy a new car or new house with cash? Hell I'm not even positive you can sell gold coins worth thousands a piece for cash without generating a govt form somewhere.



Hide it in the insulation of your laundry room.
It was good enough for Walter White!
 
2014-03-04 08:37:15 AM  
Do they belong in a museum?
 
2014-03-04 08:38:20 AM  

rebelyell2006: dready zim: rebelyell2006: dready zim: NEVER tell anyone you just found a load of gold.

Except me of course. I`ll buy it off you for a good price.

Melt it down. Then you just have a load of gold that cannot be traced back to an owner. Turn it into nuggets. Throw the gold onto the ground molten to make nuggets and say you found the nuggets like that to the guy who is buying it without any questions...

Once you have the cash in your hand and can afford a good lawyer THEN say "Look at MEEEEEEE! I`M AN ATTENTION WHORE!!!".

Destroying American history in the name of profit. How very Republican of you.

Your `history` only is as old as my grannies teeth. Show me something from the USA a thousand years old and I`ll be impressed. Then I`ll show you something thousands of years older than even your Jebus.

Also, your political bias is showing.

You do know that Native Americans have been here for thousands of years. And Norsemen showed up a thousand years ago.

And who is Jebus? Is he from the Judeo-Christian pantheon?


Of course I do. I just find it funny when the USA history is regarded as the only one or the only important one. Also when people allude to America existing before whenever (1492? C16? C18? IDK) America wasn`t in existence a thousand years ago so there cannot be any artifacts from America then.

Jebus is the guy the preachers bang on about. You know, the offspring of Yaltabaoth Saklas Samael, who is the corrupted bastard child of sophia. They are another version of Dionysus and others (Born of a Virgin on December 25th, Killed and Resurrected after Three Days)...

The character has been recycled in many religions, not just the judeo-christian one.
 
2014-03-04 08:39:12 AM  

rebelyell2006: dready zim: Rhino_man: racists

So, another thread where the only mention of racism is you. This is the only time the word racists is in the entire thread. No racism either.

You love the racism, don`t you.

rape, taxes, rape, racism, rape, terrorism, rape, black people, rape, children, rape, terrorists, rape, abortion, rape, obama.

Sarah Palin.

I bet you just came.

There are many threads on Fark. Do you think this one exists in a vacuum, or that the posters here do not have a reputation from their thousands of previous posts?


I like to think so.
 
2014-03-04 08:41:44 AM  

Sudlow: dready zim

"Your `history` only is as old as my grannies teeth. Show me something from the USA a thousand years old and I`ll be impressed. Then I`ll show you something thousands of years older than even your Jebus"

Old = historic? Or is your point that because there are more artifacts in the UK over 1000 years old some sort of moral superiority is attained?


Well done, you have spotted my fallacy. My argument of course makes no sense and is not a valid one.
 
2014-03-04 08:43:13 AM  

give me doughnuts: dukeblue219: Again, you cannot slowly convert $10MM worth of extremely valuable gold coins into cash without someone noticing. Furthermore, if you're someone barely getting by and suddenly start acquiring millions in cash the IRS is going to notice. You can't deposit the cash in a bank without drawing attention, and are you really going to buy a new car or new house with cash? Hell I'm not even positive you can sell gold coins worth thousands a piece for cash without generating a govt form somewhere.


Hide it in the insulation of your laundry room.
It was good enough for Walter White!


...and even after buying the car wash he ended up with piles of cash in a storage unit because he couldn't spend it or put it in a bank...

These people have a legal claim to the money, so there's no reason to incur the massive cost and risk of hiding/laundering it. Just cash it in, invest it wisely, and move on with your lives.

I would much rather have just $1MM in the bank than $10MM hidden in my attic, living every day terrified of a fire, robbery, or an IRS agent getting word of that guy cashing in lots of old gold for cash.
 
2014-03-04 08:43:38 AM  
Nobody has mentioned that my granny must have been wearing teeth at least a hundred years older than herself yet though.

If it were true I`d bet they were Waterloo teeth.
 
2014-03-04 08:44:20 AM  

Rhino_man: They're going to lose 75% of the $10 million that they didn't have before?

Crimea River.


Because we know what good the government (cough cough NSA cough) will be doing with all that money.
 
2014-03-04 08:45:02 AM  

HindiDiscoMonster: fedex.jpg

Just make sure to package it as a coin collection would be packaged first in case of inspection... send it right to the bank (whom you have made prior arrangements with).


Yeah, good luck with that.

FXF 100 Rules: Tariff
Prohibited or Restricted Articles
 
2014-03-04 08:45:09 AM  

dready zim: rebelyell2006: dready zim: rebelyell2006: dready zim: NEVER tell anyone you just found a load of gold.

Except me of course. I`ll buy it off you for a good price.

Melt it down. Then you just have a load of gold that cannot be traced back to an owner. Turn it into nuggets. Throw the gold onto the ground molten to make nuggets and say you found the nuggets like that to the guy who is buying it without any questions...

Once you have the cash in your hand and can afford a good lawyer THEN say "Look at MEEEEEEE! I`M AN ATTENTION WHORE!!!".

Destroying American history in the name of profit. How very Republican of you.

Your `history` only is as old as my grannies teeth. Show me something from the USA a thousand years old and I`ll be impressed. Then I`ll show you something thousands of years older than even your Jebus.

Also, your political bias is showing.

You do know that Native Americans have been here for thousands of years. And Norsemen showed up a thousand years ago.

And who is Jebus? Is he from the Judeo-Christian pantheon?

Of course I do. I just find it funny when the USA history is regarded as the only one or the only important one. Also when people allude to America existing before whenever (1492? C16? C18? IDK) America wasn`t in existence a thousand years ago so there cannot be any artifacts from America then.

Jebus is the guy the preachers bang on about. You know, the offspring of Yaltabaoth Saklas Samael, who is the corrupted bastard child of sophia. They are another version of Dionysus and others (Born of a Virgin on December 25th, Killed and Resurrected after Three Days)...

The character has been recycled in many religions, not just the judeo-christian one.


So you are referring to the Jesus character from the Christian mythology? Why didn't you just say that? People don't go around talking about Geus or Lochi or Buddma.
 
2014-03-04 08:45:13 AM  
Gold, real money, and you think the State is going to sit idly by?

The coup de grace will be when the State gives them worthless paper trash in return for their very real, never-been-worth-zero gold.
 
2014-03-04 08:46:07 AM  

dukeblue219: give me doughnuts: dukeblue219: Again, you cannot slowly convert $10MM worth of extremely valuable gold coins into cash without someone noticing. Furthermore, if you're someone barely getting by and suddenly start acquiring millions in cash the IRS is going to notice. You can't deposit the cash in a bank without drawing attention, and are you really going to buy a new car or new house with cash? Hell I'm not even positive you can sell gold coins worth thousands a piece for cash without generating a govt form somewhere.


Hide it in the insulation of your laundry room.
It was good enough for Walter White!

...and even after buying the car wash he ended up with piles of cash in a storage unit because he couldn't spend it or put it in a bank...

These people have a legal claim to the money, so there's no reason to incur the massive cost and risk of hiding/laundering it. Just cash it in, invest it wisely, and move on with your lives.

I would much rather have just $1MM in the bank than $10MM hidden in my attic, living every day terrified of a fire, robbery, or an IRS agent getting word of that guy cashing in lots of old gold for cash.


If you have 10M, why are you not in Rio or Thailand or somewhere they really don`t care as long as you spend it?

Turn it into jewels in a private sale to a gold coin collector, go to another country, retire.

There are many more options than `tell the government about something they may want to take from you`
 
2014-03-04 08:48:26 AM  
Why would they have to pay taxes if they get legal ownership of the coins?  It wasn't money from a wage, salary, or tip.  If it was a gift, the giver would have to pay gift tax.  Is there separate tax law just for found money?
 
2014-03-04 08:49:12 AM  

dready zim: Sudlow: dready zim

"Your `history` only is as old as my grannies teeth. Show me something from the USA a thousand years old and I`ll be impressed. Then I`ll show you something thousands of years older than even your Jebus"

Old = historic? Or is your point that because there are more artifacts in the UK over 1000 years old some sort of moral superiority is attained?

Well done, you have spotted my fallacy. My argument of course makes no sense and is not a valid one.


Of course it isn't. If you limit historical boundaries to existing governmental structures you would wipe out the Roman Empire. No more pre-1945 Germany. The Soviet Union would not exist. America would by your definition have more history that Europe, especially considering how there are still some Native American nations still in existence, and their history goes back thousands of years.
 
2014-03-04 08:50:22 AM  

HindiDiscoMonster: Find treasure.

Step 1: move said treasure out of USA to a country known for protecting it's banking customers (you can afford it now)
Step 2: move your family and assets out of the USA to a country where you can live like emperors till the day you die (that are unlikely to cooperate with US authorities
Step 3: obtain citizenship in new country, and renounce US citizenship
Step 4: with the loudest voice you can muster (no posting on the net) say:

[static.planetminecraft.com image 324x324]

Step 5: Enjoy your new life and fortune.


Then they'll just drone you & yours.
 
2014-03-04 08:51:07 AM  

rebelyell2006: dready zim: rebelyell2006: dready zim: rebelyell2006: dready zim: NEVER tell anyone you just found a load of gold.

Except me of course. I`ll buy it off you for a good price.

Melt it down. Then you just have a load of gold that cannot be traced back to an owner. Turn it into nuggets. Throw the gold onto the ground molten to make nuggets and say you found the nuggets like that to the guy who is buying it without any questions...

Once you have the cash in your hand and can afford a good lawyer THEN say "Look at MEEEEEEE! I`M AN ATTENTION WHORE!!!".

Destroying American history in the name of profit. How very Republican of you.

Your `history` only is as old as my grannies teeth. Show me something from the USA a thousand years old and I`ll be impressed. Then I`ll show you something thousands of years older than even your Jebus.

Also, your political bias is showing.

You do know that Native Americans have been here for thousands of years. And Norsemen showed up a thousand years ago.

And who is Jebus? Is he from the Judeo-Christian pantheon?

Of course I do. I just find it funny when the USA history is regarded as the only one or the only important one. Also when people allude to America existing before whenever (1492? C16? C18? IDK) America wasn`t in existence a thousand years ago so there cannot be any artifacts from America then.

Jebus is the guy the preachers bang on about. You know, the offspring of Yaltabaoth Saklas Samael, who is the corrupted bastard child of sophia. They are another version of Dionysus and others (Born of a Virgin on December 25th, Killed and Resurrected after Three Days)...

The character has been recycled in many religions, not just the judeo-christian one.

So you are referring to the Jesus character from the Christian mythology? Why didn't you just say that? People don't go around talking about Geus or Lochi or Buddma.


No, but Jebus is widely used.

You seem a very literal person and deliberately obtuse.

Welcome to FARK. We like your type around here. You`re fun to play with.

(Yeah 7 years, I know)`
 
2014-03-04 08:51:18 AM  
An article written purely on speculation has drawn comparisons to government handouts to illegal immigrants and Nazis. The comments are pure gold. I need to screencap all that mess
 
2014-03-04 08:51:56 AM  

threadjackistan: Except the 25% finders fee is probably going to be far more than the melt value of the entire hordehoard.


A thought missed by most, and while I would fail miserably making the legal argument, here's my thoughts:
The government can argue that they are due $30,000 for their missing property.
Nobody says it has to be that particular set of coins.
When the coins were lost, their value was only face value.
The government could claim the gold has value and instead request payment in the loss of gold.
Again, the loss of gold as priced then or now? Okay, equal amount (melt value).

The value in the hoard is in the collector's value.
Does the government plan to argue that the bank was storing coin in banks in 1900 in order for the collector's value to increase?

So, if the coins are worth in sale $10million, the government cannot value the coins (they want back and as mentioned have to prove) at the price worth to the finders.

The flip side argument (govt case) would state they want their actual coins back, no matter the value.
Any finders fee would be a percentage of the melt value of the metal.
 
2014-03-04 08:55:40 AM  
They need to pay their fair share. That is the liberal thought process, right? How dare they find gold when some people only have an Xbox and a couch?
 
2014-03-04 08:56:51 AM  

htomc: Rhino_man: They're going to lose 75% of the $10 million that they didn't have before?

Crimea River.

Because we know what good the government (cough cough NSA cough) will be doing with all that money.


Yeah, fark roads, bridges, rails, medical care for the poor and elderly, pensions, the military and countless other things that the government does.  I DON'T LIKE THIS ONE THING, SO TAXES ARE EVIL!
 
2014-03-04 08:57:22 AM  

dready zim: rebelyell2006: dready zim: rebelyell2006: dready zim: rebelyell2006: dready zim: NEVER tell anyone you just found a load of gold.

Except me of course. I`ll buy it off you for a good price.

Melt it down. Then you just have a load of gold that cannot be traced back to an owner. Turn it into nuggets. Throw the gold onto the ground molten to make nuggets and say you found the nuggets like that to the guy who is buying it without any questions...

Once you have the cash in your hand and can afford a good lawyer THEN say "Look at MEEEEEEE! I`M AN ATTENTION WHORE!!!".

Destroying American history in the name of profit. How very Republican of you.

Your `history` only is as old as my grannies teeth. Show me something from the USA a thousand years old and I`ll be impressed. Then I`ll show you something thousands of years older than even your Jebus.

Also, your political bias is showing.

You do know that Native Americans have been here for thousands of years. And Norsemen showed up a thousand years ago.

And who is Jebus? Is he from the Judeo-Christian pantheon?

Of course I do. I just find it funny when the USA history is regarded as the only one or the only important one. Also when people allude to America existing before whenever (1492? C16? C18? IDK) America wasn`t in existence a thousand years ago so there cannot be any artifacts from America then.

Jebus is the guy the preachers bang on about. You know, the offspring of Yaltabaoth Saklas Samael, who is the corrupted bastard child of sophia. They are another version of Dionysus and others (Born of a Virgin on December 25th, Killed and Resurrected after Three Days)...

The character has been recycled in many religions, not just the judeo-christian one.

So you are referring to the Jesus character from the Christian mythology? Why didn't you just say that? People don't go around talking about Geus or Lochi or Buddma.

No, but Jebus is widely used.

You seem a very literal person and deliberately obtuse.

Welcome to FARK. We like your type around here. You`re fun to play with.

(Yeah 7 years, I know)`


Not obtuse, just dyslexic. Misspellings throw me off.
 
2014-03-04 08:58:09 AM  

Thunderpipes: They need to pay their fair share. That is the liberal thought process, right? How dare they find gold when some people only have an Xbox and a couch?


So you think that returning stolen property to the original owner is a liberal plot to... do something... because reasons and furthermore and such as.

Got it.
 
2014-03-04 08:58:41 AM  
I mean, I don't see an issue here.  They didn't build those gold coins, somebody else did that.
 
2014-03-04 08:59:08 AM  

HooskerDoo: Those coins are so rare I doubt that one could sell them at all without drawing attention.


Just the thought of the Secret Service reading that one of these is on the market, would be enough reason to have just melted the coins down into nice blobs of untraceable money. ...maybe add a little other metals to completely throw them off the scent... crucible explodes in your face - comedy gold.
 
2014-03-04 09:00:15 AM  

Rhino_man: Thunderpipes: They need to pay their fair share. That is the liberal thought process, right? How dare they find gold when some people only have an Xbox and a couch?

So you think that returning stolen property to the original owner is a liberal plot to... do something... because reasons and furthermore and such as.

Got it.


Don't waste your bandwidth. He never responds.
 
2014-03-04 09:01:59 AM  
Wouldn't these stolen gold coins have been written off back when they were stolen by the government as a loss? At that point aren't they now the property of whoever found them?

Just like when an owner reports a stolen car and the insurance pays them if the car is found it goes to the insurance company and not back to the owners (unless it's super rare).

So if they wrote this off which I'm sure they did the government no longer owns them.
 
2014-03-04 09:02:29 AM  
How long does one have to claim stolen property? If I remember correctly Elizabeth Taylor had took a case to the supreme court over something like this. Except it was a looted Van Gogh.
 
2014-03-04 09:02:36 AM  

GoldSpider: Let's see if thread confirms some of our cherished political stereotypes, such as which party takes the side of the "little guy."


Are you talking about the "little guy" that originally stole these coins?  Who would take a criminals side?
 
2014-03-04 09:05:49 AM  

rebelyell2006: Rhino_man: Thunderpipes: They need to pay their fair share. That is the liberal thought process, right? How dare they find gold when some people only have an Xbox and a couch?

So you think that returning stolen property to the original owner is a liberal plot to... do something... because reasons and furthermore and such as.

Got it.

Don't waste your bandwidth. He never responds.


Has been gnashing his dumb little teeth about liberals for years, though. Gotta admire his dedication.
 
2014-03-04 09:06:05 AM  

Rhino_man: Thunderpipes: They need to pay their fair share. That is the liberal thought process, right? How dare they find gold when some people only have an Xbox and a couch?

So you think that returning stolen property to the original owner is a liberal plot to... do something... because reasons and furthermore and such as.

Got it.


The original owners are long dead. Or is treating banks as people a good thing now?

/don't bother answering, we all know "It's Okay When WE Do It!"
 
2014-03-04 09:06:55 AM  

trappedspirit: GoldSpider: Let's see if thread confirms some of our cherished political stereotypes, such as which party takes the side of the "little guy."

Are you talking about the "little guy" that originally stole these coins?  Who would take a criminals side?


I'd wager the thieves are long dead by now.
 
2014-03-04 09:08:17 AM  

Tatterdemalian: Rhino_man: Thunderpipes: They need to pay their fair share. That is the liberal thought process, right? How dare they find gold when some people only have an Xbox and a couch?

So you think that returning stolen property to the original owner is a liberal plot to... do something... because reasons and furthermore and such as.

Got it.

The original owners are long dead. Or is treating banks as people a good thing now?

/don't bother answering, we all know "It's Okay When WE Do It!"


Oh look, you've come into yet another thread to be completely wrong.  It was stolen directly from the Mint, which is an agency of the United States Government.  I can assure you that the United States Government is not dead, therefore the coins belong to it.
 
2014-03-04 09:11:04 AM  

FnkyTwn: Fox is gonna have a sad.


Is confiscation of your goldline coins next?

/Just asking questions.
//Probably the best thing that could happen before the customers realized that there is only $10 worth of gold in the 'rare coins' they bought for $100.
 
2014-03-04 09:12:19 AM  

HindiDiscoMonster: Cybernetic: The longer I live, the more I learn the value of keeping my mouth shut.

That said, a 25% finder's reward is still $2.5 million, which isn't bad considering all that they did was stumble across some old cans while they were walking their dogs.

it only hurts a little if they rape rape you a little?


$2.5 Million isn't a bad payday for an unemployed whore.
 
2014-03-04 09:12:21 AM  
The article is quite reasonable.  The comments are 24 karat derp.
 
2014-03-04 09:13:49 AM  
Next time, keep your big yapper shut.
 
2014-03-04 09:15:13 AM  
img.photobucket.com
 
2014-03-04 09:17:26 AM  

HindiDiscoMonster: 75% Tax in a system that is supposed to max out at 40%... so how are they not being rape raped again?


Oh they got shafted, no doubt about it. But at the end of the day they might walk away with $2.5 million they never had before, plus a little more wisdom.

Really that's just the difference between owning a luxury yacht and not owning one. Like this one.
 
2014-03-04 09:18:41 AM  

Pants full of macaroni!!: [img.photobucket.com image 800x533]


If it's malevolent AND incompetent, then shouldn't it be accidentally doing good things for the people?  You might want to reevaluate the logical consistency of that image and try again, because right now you're just looking like an ass.
 
2014-03-04 09:22:55 AM  
FTA:
A story that describes a gold heist from the San Francisco Mint at the turn of the century could explain the source of the gold coins worth $10 million that were found last month in California's Mother Lode country.

Government: Yeah, that gold might be ours, so we're just gonna drop by and pick up it in case it is. And if later, it turns out that it wasn't our gold, well the country really thanks you. We really needed 1 more Abrams tank. Will give you a finder's fee, but we gotta tax half that money we give you. It's only fair, you know?
 
2014-03-04 09:23:51 AM  

TerminalEchoes: Satanic_Hamster: Don't click on derp cites.

Like Salon, MSNBC, Think Progress, NPR, and Mother Jones? I don't.


WAT??!!
 
2014-03-04 09:26:30 AM  
They should refer to the "Finders Keepers" vs "Losers Weepers" case of 1952.
 
2014-03-04 09:30:54 AM  
The same thing happened to the heirs of a coin collector who had some stolen never-circulated US gold coins.

http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/update-on-80-million-in-seized -g old-coins-judge-rules-they-belong-to-the-u-s-government_09072012
 
2014-03-04 09:35:29 AM  
I'm wondering... what WOULD the melt value of that be?  Not 10M for sure, but what is the weight of all that coin?
 
2014-03-04 09:36:05 AM  

trappedspirit:  Who would take a criminals side?


Half of Farkers religiously take the government's side in everything.
 
2014-03-04 09:37:12 AM  

Rhino_man: If it's malevolent AND incompetent, then shouldn't it be accidentally doing good things for the people?  You might want to reevaluate the logical consistency of that image and try again, because right now you're just looking like an ass.


Logical consistency hasn't been a hallmark of the left since they pretended Dubya was both an evil criminal mastermind and a complete idiot.

/smart enough to trick Democrats into voting for his war
//too stupid to plant WMDs in Iraq for the troops to find
///maybe he was just a human being acting to protect the USA with the information he had
 
2014-03-04 09:37:27 AM  

dukeblue219: SpectroBoy: Life_is_a_carnivore: Or they could have laid low and cashed them in one at a time but they had to be attention whores.

Duh.

This.

My very first thought when the story came out was that they were asking for trouble or taxes, or both.

Best bet would be to sell them one at a time at different coin/gold shops.

Again, you cannot slowly convert $10MM worth of extremely valuable gold coins into cash without someone noticing. Furthermore, if you're someone barely getting by and suddenly start acquiring millions in cash the IRS is going to notice. You can't deposit the cash in a bank without drawing attention, and are you really going to buy a new car or new house with cash? Hell I'm not even positive you can sell gold coins worth thousands a piece for cash without generating a govt form somewhere.

The only option would be to sell them so slowly that nobody notices which kind of defeats the purpose of finding a fortune. Even taking a 75% loss and then investing the remainder would be way more practical.




Selling even on coin would bring the law knocking. Don't think so? Look up the story of 1933 double eagle.
 
2014-03-04 09:38:50 AM  

Rhino_man: Nuclear Monk: Rhino_man: Harlow_B_Ashur: Write the Feds a check for $28,000 and be done with it.

And if they're smart, they'll hire a lawyer that will be able to argue exactly that.  $30,000 in currency was stolen.  $30,000 in currency was returned.

Hell, they could even return it  adjusted for inflation and only have to cut a check for about $900k

That's what I was just calculating too.  Seems like that would be a reasonable argument to make.

To which, I'm sure, the Government would argue that the physical stolen property itself is what must be returned.  The finder's lawyer would surely then argue that the actual currency stolen only needs to be held by the government when used as evidence in a criminal trial against the thief, and since the thief is CLEARLY dead, a return of equivalent face value after inflation should suffice.

It's murky on both sides, and it would depend on the judge if it came to that... but I'm sure most judges would be sympathetic to the finders and agree to the $900k figure.


Might be worth it to just take the 2.5 M in finder's fee rather than let the lawyers have eleventy billion in legal fees. Seems like legal fees could chew up a significant part of 10 M pretty easily.
 
2014-03-04 09:40:06 AM  

HindiDiscoMonster: Find treasure.

Step 1: move said treasure out of USA to a country known for protecting it's banking customers (you can afford it now)
Step 2: move your family and assets out of the USA to a country where you can live like emperors till the day you die (that are unlikely to cooperate with US authorities
Step 3: obtain citizenship in new country, and renounce US citizenship
Step 4: with the loudest voice you can muster (no posting on the net) say:



Step 5: Enjoy your new life and fortune.


There are a lot of people in this thread that seem to think it's easy to either smuggle $10 million on hold out of the country or find a black market buyer fr $10 million in gold.
 
2014-03-04 09:40:42 AM  

MrBeetle: I'm wondering... what WOULD the melt value of that be?  Not 10M for sure, but what is the weight of all that coin?


Looked it up... about 1350 $20 gold coins, which I believe are just under an oz each...

1300 oz x $1300/oz = 1.7M

Should have melted them down...
 
2014-03-04 09:42:02 AM  

colinspooky: Subbs sounds vaguely surprised. I am sure the coins did not belong to the couple, so why would the real owner simply accept the loss after they have been recovered. Possession really does not mean ownership, no matter how often the cliche is trotted out


When the real owner cannot be identified, possession does mean ownership, and in the case of most abandoned money, that's the case. Sadly for them, the real owner was just identified, and still exists.

Though maybe they could strike a deal to give the government the face value plus interest, while allowing them to capitalize on the numismatic value of the hoard. It gets the coins to collectors, gets the couple some income (which they'll pay taxes on!) and the government is made whole.
 
2014-03-04 09:42:05 AM  

Rhino_man: HMS_Blinkin: Marmilman: Wow. The comments in that article are weapons grade retarded.

It's pj media, what did you expect?

Certainly not this:
"Every day the Federal Government steals money from those working and gives it to those who don't and even now they are asking illegal Democrats in Mexico to jump the fence and join in the rape of the United States Cornucopia for free, only their new votes are wanted. It's getting time to water the tree of liberty. "

Or how about more greatest hits from Obama's time machine?
"What if I don't believe the Federal Government? They're making this up, to try to swindle these poor saps who were dumb enough to brag about it. First, they had to pay taxes on material they found on the property they bought, which should at most be capital gains. Now, suddenly the government LOST the money! "

Or whatever the fark this is:
"Anyone who comes into a genuine windfall without the knowledge of the government, and who publicizes it is a living, breathing example of Darwinism in action. This is not our government. It is not our friend. It is not under the control of citizens. It is not held to either the law or the Constitution. If you have any wealth, tangible goods the government might take an interest in, or are not connected with those in power and paying guanxi or blat [блат]; anything you have that you do not want to be confiscated needs to be hidden away and/or removed to another part of the world where the US government cannot reach it. Think a Chinese peasant reacting when there are Mongol horses stirring up dust on the horizon. Think a Jew in Europe during the pogroms."

/and all that was from just the first page.


[1] Yes this article is a perfect example of the government stealing from those working to randomly find stolen goods on their property. Of course this post ends with the standard threat to kill those who disagree with him.
[2] We see now that an idiot's definition of "capital gains" is "anything at all other than a paycheck someone gets for actual work".
[3] I'm sure this person considers himself a patriot.
 
2014-03-04 09:42:50 AM  

Rhino_man: Pants full of macaroni!!: [img.photobucket.com image 800x533]

If it's malevolent AND incompetent, then shouldn't it be accidentally doing good things for the people?  You might want to reevaluate the logical consistency of that image and try again, because right now you're just looking like an ass.


It does. It's wonderful if you are a businessman looking to make a cartel or gain market share through favorable regulation, if you are a banker who wishes to keep your profit and offload your losses, if you are a member of the military-industrial complex that seeks to sell a war, if you are an academic whose 'skills' are unmarketable that needs legitimacy, if you are power-hungry soul that wishes to indulge the libido dominandi, the government is your only avenue. For these people, government is good, great, grand.
 
2014-03-04 09:43:52 AM  

Tatterdemalian: Rhino_man: If it's malevolent AND incompetent, then shouldn't it be accidentally doing good things for the people?  You might want to reevaluate the logical consistency of that image and try again, because right now you're just looking like an ass.

Logical consistency hasn't been a hallmark of the left since they pretended Dubya was both an evil criminal mastermind and a complete idiot.

/smart enough to trick Democrats into voting for his war
//too stupid to plant WMDs in Iraq for the troops to find
///maybe he was just a human being acting to protect the USA with the information he had


Just how much straw you got over there, son?
 
2014-03-04 09:44:13 AM  

dready zim: Your `history` only is as old as my grannies teeth. Show me something from the USA a thousand years old and I`ll be impressed.


i.infoplease.com

How about the decent sized chunk of the UK's ass that we bit off in the late 1700's?
 
2014-03-04 09:44:18 AM  

GoldSpider: trappedspirit: GoldSpider: Let's see if thread confirms some of our cherished political stereotypes, such as which party takes the side of the "little guy."

Are you talking about the "little guy" that originally stole these coins?  Who would take a criminals side?

I'd wager the thieves are long dead by now.


Then it makes sense to return the stolen property.
 
2014-03-04 09:45:42 AM  

memtastic: TerminalEchoes: Satanic_Hamster: Don't click on derp cites.

Like Salon, MSNBC, Think Progress, NPR, and Mother Jones? I don't.

WAT??!!


You know, liberals and what not.
 
2014-03-04 09:46:57 AM  

Life_is_a_carnivore: Or they could have laid low and cashed them in one at a time but they had to be attention whores.

Duh.


Done in two. These could have been melted down in an ask-no-questions crucible, or just sold with a mark-up to grateful preppers for sacks of worthless fiat paper.
 
2014-03-04 09:47:53 AM  
celticrebel.files.wordpress.com

That couple is lucky. Ben Gates only got 1%.
 
2014-03-04 09:48:11 AM  
I don't see why people are so upset about this. It's just part of Obama's re-distribution of wealth that he pledged. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ge3aGJfDSg4
 
2014-03-04 09:49:46 AM  

Thunderpipes: They need to pay their fair share. That is the liberal thought process, right? How dare they find gold when some people only have an Xbox and a couch?


No, the "liberal" thought process is that they need to return the stolen property to its rightful owner. Do you disagree?
 
2014-03-04 09:51:03 AM  
So they only get an unexpected $2.5 million windfall? Crimea river.
 
2014-03-04 09:51:19 AM  

Tatterdemalian: Rhino_man: If it's malevolent AND incompetent, then shouldn't it be accidentally doing good things for the people?  You might want to reevaluate the logical consistency of that image and try again, because right now you're just looking like an ass.

Logical consistency hasn't been a hallmark of the left since they pretended Dubya was both an evil criminal mastermind and a complete idiot.

/smart enough to trick Democrats into voting for his war
//too stupid to plant WMDs in Iraq for the troops to find
///maybe he was just a human being acting to protect the USA with the information he had


George W Bush was and is a complete idiot, and was the puppet of evil criminal masterminds including but not limited to Dick Cheney.
 
2014-03-04 09:52:24 AM  

Life_is_a_carnivore: Or they could have laid low and cashed them in one at a time but they had to be attention whores.

Duh.


$30,000 worth of gold coins at face value is 1500-$20 gold pieces, which weigh an ounce each.

1500 ounces of gold at today's prices is worth just over $2 million.

These coins are worth 5x as much as a set, due to the collector value.

Coincidentally, 25% of $10 million is STILL $500,000 more than they're worth by weight.
 
2014-03-04 09:53:11 AM  
They should have to pay the mint back the 30 grand that was stolen.
 
2014-03-04 09:53:52 AM  

dukeblue219: Again, you cannot slowly convert $10MM worth of extremely valuable gold coins into cash without someone noticing. Furthermore, if you're someone barely getting by and suddenly start acquiring millions in cash the IRS is going to notice. You can't deposit the cash in a bank without drawing attention, and are you really going to buy a new car or new house with cash? Hell I'm not even positive you can sell gold coins worth thousands a piece for cash without generating a govt form somewhere.

The only option would be to sell them so slowly that nobody notices which kind of defeats the purpose of finding a fortune. Even taking a 75% loss and then investing the remainder would be way more practical.



Those are some good points.

I wonder if  (given the government's position) it would be more productive to simply melt them down and then "find" a lump of gold in a can.

 (I know it is too late now )
 
2014-03-04 09:55:04 AM  

GoldSpider: Two words: "Prove it."


I would certainly force the government to prove it in court.
 
2014-03-04 09:55:52 AM  

Tatterdemalian: The original owners are long dead.


The United States government is dead? You're getting more incomprehensible with each subsequent post, dude.
 
2014-03-04 09:57:31 AM  

Thunderpipes: They need to pay their fair share. That is the liberal thought process, right? How dare they find gold when some people only have an Xbox and a couch?


Bless your heart
 
2014-03-04 09:58:30 AM  

SpectroBoy: dukeblue219: Again, you cannot slowly convert $10MM worth of extremely valuable gold coins into cash without someone noticing. Furthermore, if you're someone barely getting by and suddenly start acquiring millions in cash the IRS is going to notice. You can't deposit the cash in a bank without drawing attention, and are you really going to buy a new car or new house with cash? Hell I'm not even positive you can sell gold coins worth thousands a piece for cash without generating a govt form somewhere.

The only option would be to sell them so slowly that nobody notices which kind of defeats the purpose of finding a fortune. Even taking a 75% loss and then investing the remainder would be way more practical.


Those are some good points.

I wonder if  (given the government's position) it would be more productive to simply melt them down and then "find" a lump of gold in a can.

 (I know it is too late now )


That's like destroying stolen artwork to hide a theft. Sure, the wood frame might have a salvage value. But like all historical and archaeological items their value is in their history and current state, not in the value of individual components.

Plus the whole destruction of stolen property thing.
 
2014-03-04 09:59:12 AM  

MFK: "Finders - Keepers" might work on the schoolyard, but it's not a law or anything.


In many cases it is. Brush up on your common law sometime.
 
2014-03-04 10:04:28 AM  
"Fine, here's your $300,000. Don't cash that check till Monday."
 
2014-03-04 10:05:26 AM  

rebelyell2006: dready zim: rebelyell2006: dready zim: rebelyell2006: dready zim: NEVER tell anyone you just found a load of gold.

Except me of course. I`ll buy it off you for a good price.

Melt it down. Then you just have a load of gold that cannot be traced back to an owner. Turn it into nuggets. Throw the gold onto the ground molten to make nuggets and say you found the nuggets like that to the guy who is buying it without any questions...

Once you have the cash in your hand and can afford a good lawyer THEN say "Look at MEEEEEEE! I`M AN ATTENTION WHORE!!!".

Destroying American history in the name of profit. How very Republican of you.

Your `history` only is as old as my grannies teeth. Show me something from the USA a thousand years old and I`ll be impressed. Then I`ll show you something thousands of years older than even your Jebus.

Also, your political bias is showing.

You do know that Native Americans have been here for thousands of years. And Norsemen showed up a thousand years ago.

And who is Jebus? Is he from the Judeo-Christian pantheon?

Of course I do. I just find it funny when the USA history is regarded as the only one or the only important one. Also when people allude to America existing before whenever (1492? C16? C18? IDK) America wasn`t in existence a thousand years ago so there cannot be any artifacts from America then.

Jebus is the guy the preachers bang on about. You know, the offspring of Yaltabaoth Saklas Samael, who is the corrupted bastard child of sophia. They are another version of Dionysus and others (Born of a Virgin on December 25th, Killed and Resurrected after Three Days)...

The character has been recycled in many religions, not just the judeo-christian one.

So you are referring to the Jesus character from the Christian mythology? Why didn't you just say that? People don't go around talking about Geus or Lochi or Buddma.


Jebus is a version of Jesus mainly worshiped by southern conservatives. He wants people to be wealthy, and thinks the poor and sick should pull themselves up by their bootstraps. He also loves guns.
 
2014-03-04 10:05:31 AM  

SVenus: The flip side argument (govt case) would state they want their actual coins back, no matter the value.
Any finders fee would be a percentage of the melt value of the metal.


Good point. 25% of $2 million is $500,000.

Although, if that did happen, no one would ever turn in gold treasure again. They would just melt it, claim it as a find, and pay the 40% windfall tax.

It's a gamble I'd take every single time, because the government could never divine the source of this gold beyond any other gold.
 
2014-03-04 10:09:12 AM  
HindiDiscoMonster:
or to put it another way:

75% Tax in a system that is supposed to max out at 40%... so how are they not being rape raped again?


Or to put it in another way:

"I'm now going to say some stupid DERP!"
 
2014-03-04 10:09:40 AM  

King Keepo: Oh they got shafted, no doubt about it. But at the end of the day they might walk away with $2.5 million they never had before, plus a little more wisdom.


If ending up $2.5M richer is "getting shafted", then where do I sign up for a proper shafting of this sort??
 
2014-03-04 10:12:29 AM  
TFA: Northern California fishing guide Jack Trout

farker stole my fish?
 
2014-03-04 10:13:22 AM  
Isn't there a statue of limitations regarding robbery? You'd think after that amount of time, it's Finders Keeps on the gold.
 
2014-03-04 10:14:33 AM  

Rhino_man: They're going to lose 75% of the $10 million that they didn't have before?

Crimea River.


STOP! USING! THAT! PHRASE!!
oi42.tinypic.com
 
2014-03-04 10:14:43 AM  

MythDragon: dready zim: Your `history` only is as old as my grannies teeth. Show me something from the USA a thousand years old and I`ll be impressed.

[i.infoplease.com image 510x609]

How about the decent sized chunk of the UK's ass that we bit off in the late 1700's?


Oh Snap!
 
2014-03-04 10:15:01 AM  

RobSeace: King Keepo: Oh they got shafted, no doubt about it. But at the end of the day they might walk away with $2.5 million they never had before, plus a little more wisdom.

If ending up $2.5M richer is "getting shafted", then where do I sign up for a proper shafting of this sort??


"But... we totally had sex.  Like... hard core.  Three times."
"It was all a cruel ploy to gain your trust."
"That was a cruel ploy?  Heh.  Sign me up for another!"
2.media.collegehumor.cvcdn.com
 
2014-03-04 10:15:06 AM  
RminusQ:

George W Bush was and is a complete idiot, and was the puppet of evil criminal masterminds including but not limited to Dick Cheney.

I don't know what to say to people who honestly believe that one side is evil and the other, good.

On one hand it must be a breathtakingly break from reality, where such black and white distinctions rarely exist, where one can go about with the knowledge that their fiery righteousness is not any more extreme of a position than condemning a murderer over his victim. Yet even a murderer's motives are sometimes validated, and a victim is sometimes very deserving of his fate. No one cries that Muammar Gaddafi was murdered, but he was killed by a lynch mob without a trial.

On the other it must be difficult to reconcile the evidence to the contrary, namely, that the government changes very little from one team to the next. It behaves the same way, if not a little worse, each successive year. The only changes to it are superficial, and the platitudes spouted by the defenders of each party are so wrong that they border on comical. Blue team is the party of peace as long as you don't look too closely at who controlled the government at the beginning of WW1, WW2, Korea, Vietnam, Serbia. Red team hates the welfare state as long as you don't pay any attention to who expanded the welfare state the most since 1964 and was responsible for both the amnesties since the same year.

I only wish I could ignore all the evidence and believe in such a duality, but it simply does not exist.
 
2014-03-04 10:15:34 AM  

lucksi: So stolen goods remain stolen goods forever?

Makes me wonder why things like tax evasion can only go to court within 10 years. You bilked the state out of 10 millions 11 years ago? Well, you are in the clear.


That's how art is.
 
2014-03-04 10:15:52 AM  

TV's Vinnie: Rhino_man: They're going to lose 75% of the $10 million that they didn't have before?

Crimea River.

STOP! USING! THAT! PHRASE!!
[oi42.tinypic.com image 319x188]


To be fair, I'm only using it in non-Ukraine threads.  I've got SOME decency to my name.
 
2014-03-04 10:18:09 AM  

Thunderpipes: They need to pay their fair share. That is the liberal thought process, right? How dare they find gold when some people only have an Xbox and a couch?


Everybody point and laugh at the guy who didn't read any information in the article or the thread beyond the headline.
 
2014-03-04 10:22:31 AM  

TV's Vinnie: Isn't there a statue of limitations regarding robbery? You'd think after that amount of time, it's Finders Keeps on the gold.


What a statue of limitations might look like:
img.fark.net
 
2014-03-04 10:23:44 AM  

lucksi: So stolen goods remain stolen goods forever?


Yes.

From time to time, works of art looted by the Nazis are still being discovered and returned to the descendants of the rightful owners.
 
2014-03-04 10:24:16 AM  
Has anyone mentioned yet that they could have melted it down? No? Well, let me be the first.
 
2014-03-04 10:26:33 AM  

HooskerDoo: Those coins are so rare I doubt that one could sell them at all without drawing attention.


Exactly.  Keeping secret about it wasn't a realistic option.

badhatharry: The owner abandoned it on their land. After a certain amount of time, it is theirs. If it was stolen, the owner or an insurance company can make a claim on it. It still doesn't belong to the government.


The owner didn't, the thief did.

JC22: Wouldn't these stolen gold coins have been written off back when they were stolen by the government as a loss? At that point aren't they now the property of whoever found them?

Just like when an owner reports a stolen car and the insurance pays them if the car is found it goes to the insurance company and not back to the owners (unless it's super rare).

So if they wrote this off which I'm sure they did the government no longer owns them.


No.  What you are describing is the insurance company buying the car off you.  You get the cash, they get the title.  If the car is recovered they get the car.  Since no insurance company paid the government for the coins the ownership remains with the government.
 
2014-03-04 10:29:08 AM  

HindiDiscoMonster: Find treasure.

Step 1: move said treasure out of USA to a country known for protecting it's banking customers (you can afford it now)
Step 2: move your family and assets out of the USA to a country where you can live like emperors till the day you die (that are unlikely to cooperate with US authorities
Step 3: obtain citizenship in new country, and renounce US citizenship
Step 4: with the loudest voice you can muster (no posting on the net) say:

[static.planetminecraft.com image 324x324]

Step 5: Enjoy your new life and fortune.


This prospect was a lot more fun when Brazil was such a country.  Nowadays, your options are limited to some pretty crappy places.  Being rich will make you much more comfortable than everyone else living there, of course, but you will be giving up some of the nice things that developed countries have like art museums, symphonies, waterways that aren't choked with sewage, etc.
 
2014-03-04 10:29:26 AM  

chozo13: TV's Vinnie: Isn't there a statue of limitations regarding robbery? You'd think after that amount of time, it's Finders Keeps on the gold.

What a statue of limitations might look like:
[img.fark.net image 741x1078]


Yes. It was a typo. Here, have a large amount of extra t's that you can insert whenever that happens again.

ttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt t tttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt tttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt ttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt

TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT T TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
 
2014-03-04 10:37:20 AM  

TV's Vinnie: chozo13: TV's Vinnie: Isn't there a statue of limitations regarding robbery? You'd think after that amount of time, it's Finders Keeps on the gold.

What a statue of limitations might look like:
[img.fark.net image 741x1078]

Yes. It was a typo. Here, have a large amount of extra t's that you can insert whenever that happens again.

ttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt t tttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt tttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt ttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt

TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT T TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT


Thank you! I will save them in my "extra letters" folder and cherish them forever!

/sense of humor much?
 
2014-03-04 10:38:14 AM  

dready zim: MFK: the problem with stealing directly from the US Government is that the Gov't is generally considered to be "immortal" legally.

I don't know why people are assuming that just because these folks are the current owners of that property that they have a "right" to whatever is on there. It's not like they bought a gold coin tree that naturally produces rare coins. They literally stumbled upon a cache of stolen coins and the owners are wanting them back now that they're found. "Finders - Keepers" might work on the schoolyard, but it's not a law or anything.

There is a way the schoolyard tactics work. If you take someones lunch (because your mom is an alcoholic and just puts sugar packets in your lunchbox) and eat it before the teacher arrives then you still have a full belly and, sans empty lunchbox, you can claim they are just trying to get you into trouble because you mom is an alcoholic. In the absence of any other evidence you`ll probably be ok as long as it doesn`t happen often.

Some things that are not laws still work inside the legal framework, you just need no morals.


You really had an unpleasant childhood.
 
2014-03-04 10:40:01 AM  

chozo13: TV's Vinnie: chozo13: TV's Vinnie: Isn't there a statue of limitations regarding robbery? You'd think after that amount of time, it's Finders Keeps on the gold.

What a statue of limitations might look like:
[img.fark.net image 741x1078]

Yes. It was a typo. Here, have a large amount of extra t's that you can insert whenever that happens again.

ttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt t tttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt tttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt ttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt

TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT T TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

Thank you! I will save them in my "extra letters" folder and cherish them forever!

/sense of humor much?


Apparently, yours could use a recharge.
 
2014-03-04 10:41:55 AM  
Yeah, this is why you don't declare finding large sums of money, gold, etc... You quietly go about turning it into assets.
 
2014-03-04 10:42:21 AM  

TV's Vinnie: chozo13: TV's Vinnie: chozo13: TV's Vinnie: Isn't there a statue of limitations regarding robbery? You'd think after that amount of time, it's Finders Keeps on the gold.

What a statue of limitations might look like:
[img.fark.net image 741x1078]

Yes. It was a typo. Here, have a large amount of extra t's that you can insert whenever that happens again.

ttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt t tttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt tttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt ttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt

TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT T TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

Thank you! I will save them in my "extra letters" folder and cherish them forever!

/sense of humor much?

Apparently, yours could use a recharge.


or possibly my sarcasm detector is on the fritz, it happens.
 
2014-03-04 10:45:09 AM  

Moosecakes: There are a lot of people in this thread that seem to think it's easy to either smuggle $10 million on hold out of the country or find a black market buyer fr $10 million in gold.


Worse.  I'm sure there is a black market for gold bullion, but most of the value of these coins is in their numismatic value.  Unless you are willing to settle for melt value, unloading these coins on the black market would be as pointless as trying to sell a stolen Picasso.
 
2014-03-04 10:46:49 AM  
The $10 million value is mostly numismatic premium.  These coins are worth a lot less as bullion, but still quite a bit of money.  I would have melted down the entire pile.  Sounds to me that the farkers who found the coins got royally farked by a coin dealer who set them up.  Having been a coin collector, I can tell you from experience that I've never run into a coin dealer who wasn't a complete and total scumbag.
 
2014-03-04 10:52:30 AM  
The fact that the  criminal statute of limitations is up has no bearing on whom has legal title to the stolen property. If I steal a car but only get caught with it after the statute of limitations is up, I cannot be criminally convicted, but the car will be taken and returned to its rightful owner.
 
2014-03-04 10:52:31 AM  
I wonder if the government still has records which confirm that the theft happened. At the moment, we only have one newspaper article which mentions the theft.
 
2014-03-04 10:55:16 AM  

WelldeadLink: I wonder if the government still has records which confirm that the theft happened. At the moment, we only have one newspaper article which mentions the theft.


What, you think the coins grew legs and walked out of the mint on their own?
 
2014-03-04 10:55:49 AM  

WelldeadLink: I wonder if the government still has records which confirm that the theft happened. At the moment, we only have one newspaper article which mentions the theft.


Even if the gov can't prove it, I'll be that lawyers are currently hunting down the relatives of previous property owners and will prepare claims as well.

Moral of the story:  Attention whoring almost always goes badly.
 
2014-03-04 11:01:47 AM  

jpbreon: Gold, real money, and you think the State is going to sit idly by?

The coup de grace will be when the State gives them worthless paper trash in return for their very real, never-been-worth-zero gold.


Because a worthless metal used primarily for jewelry has intrinsic value?
 
2014-03-04 11:07:23 AM  

Slaves2Darkness: Yeah, this is why you don't declare finding large sums of money, gold, etc... You quietly go about turning it into assets.


The finders had no clue it belonged to the government, so had no idea the government would try to claim it.

So, here's the method:
1:Find treasure hoard.
2:Travel to Mexico with small coins hidden in various body cavities.
3:Sell coins privately
4:Convert to Dogecoin. Not Bitcoin
5:Profit!
 
2014-03-04 11:09:57 AM  

SVenus: Slaves2Darkness: Yeah, this is why you don't declare finding large sums of money, gold, etc... You quietly go about turning it into assets.

The finders had no clue it belonged to the government, so had no idea the government would try to claim it.

So, here's the method:
1:Find treasure hoard.
2:Travel to Mexico with small coins hidden in various body cavities.
3:Sell coins privately
4:Convert to Dogecoin. Not Bitcoin
5:Profit!


They will have a pretty high chance of getting caught if they go through New Mexico so they should plan accordingly.
 
2014-03-04 11:11:18 AM  
I see the Party of Rape showed up.

Anybody who posted in here that paying taxes on stuff you found is akin to rape, needs to be spayed or neutered.
 
2014-03-04 11:12:58 AM  

MayoSlather: jpbreon: Gold, real money, and you think the State is going to sit idly by?

The coup de grace will be when the State gives them worthless paper trash in return for their very real, never-been-worth-zero gold.

Because a worthless metal used primarily for jewelry has intrinsic value?


Well, gold has some intrinsic value....jewelry, dentistry, electronics.....but you're correct, the money value of gold is derived in much the same way as that of paper money.    BTW, the US dollar derives its value from the government's ability to tax and create debt, and it is, in fact, backed by a commodity much more important than gold: Oil.
 
2014-03-04 11:24:04 AM  
Zihuatanejo, Mexico, Baby!


i1180.photobucket.com
 
2014-03-04 11:26:35 AM  
Where are people getting this finder's fee from? These folks found 80 million in gold coins stolen from the Philadelphia Mint and they didn't get a single cent back from Uncle Sam

http://www.courthousenews.com/2012/09/04/49923.htm
 
2014-03-04 11:33:31 AM  

Ctrl-Alt-Del: Thunderpipes: They need to pay their fair share. That is the liberal thought process, right? How dare they find gold when some people only have an Xbox and a couch?

No, the "liberal" thought process is that they need to return the stolen property to its rightful owner. Do you disagree?


no, judging by the majority of the comments in here, the liberal thought process is to pull a hindsight observation and claim how they're so much smarter than the people that found them, and then how they would have better avoided detection by slowly selling or melting them down.  But, you know, they're not greedy or anything.
 
2014-03-04 11:35:17 AM  

mikemil828: Where are people getting this finder's fee from? These folks found 80 million in gold coins stolen from the Philadelphia Mint and they didn't get a single cent back from Uncle Sam

http://www.courthousenews.com/2012/09/04/49923.htm


They didn't find it. Coming across you're relative's hoard in your inheritance wouldn't be considered a find. I'm sure the argument can be made, but I can't see how that argument would win.
 
2014-03-04 11:46:52 AM  
I'm surprised nobody's talking about how cool it is that this treasure not only was found but might be connected to a neat historical story.
 
2014-03-04 11:47:35 AM  
I was curious, so I turned to the Googles.

There are a number of better articles on this. It seems that these coins have been out and exhibited over the last year with plans to sell some off for the taxes, on Amazon in May. They have also contacted lawyers and accountants.

I'd be surprised that it got this far without already having a few protections in place.
 
2014-03-04 11:47:52 AM  
For the math challenged:

"All" =/= 75%
 
2014-03-04 11:48:02 AM  

GoldSpider: HindiDiscoMonster: Find treasure.

Step 1: move said treasure out of USA to a country known for protecting it's banking customers (you can afford it now)
Step 2: move your family and assets out of the USA to a country where you can live like emperors till the day you die (that are unlikely to cooperate with US authorities
Step 3: obtain citizenship in new country, and renounce US citizenship
Step 4: with the loudest voice you can muster (no posting on the net) say:

Step 5: Enjoy your new life and fortune.

Yeah step 1 should be the first move after any windfall.


No.. wait for a relative to die, then find the coins in the back of their closet.
 
2014-03-04 11:49:44 AM  

SVenus: mikemil828: Where are people getting this finder's fee from? These folks found 80 million in gold coins stolen from the Philadelphia Mint and they didn't get a single cent back from Uncle Sam

http://www.courthousenews.com/2012/09/04/49923.htm

They didn't find it. Coming across you're relative's hoard in your inheritance wouldn't be considered a find. I'm sure the argument can be made, but I can't see how that argument would win.


The government could claim the same thing about this hoard and take the whole thing, it's not like this couple can prove that they found the coins rather than inherited it.
 
2014-03-04 11:54:53 AM  

dukeblue219: SpectroBoy: Life_is_a_carnivore: Or they could have laid low and cashed them in one at a time but they had to be attention whores.

Duh.

This.

My very first thought when the story came out was that they were asking for trouble or taxes, or both.

Best bet would be to sell them one at a time at different coin/gold shops.

Again, you cannot slowly convert $10MM worth of extremely valuable gold coins into cash without someone noticing. Furthermore, if you're someone barely getting by and suddenly start acquiring millions in cash the IRS is going to notice. You can't deposit the cash in a bank without drawing attention, and are you really going to buy a new car or new house with cash? Hell I'm not even positive you can sell gold coins worth thousands a piece for cash without generating a govt form somewhere.

The only option would be to sell them so slowly that nobody notices which kind of defeats the purpose of finding a fortune. Even taking a 75% loss and then investing the remainder would be way more practical.


Actually these gold coins are collectibles and not required to issue a 1099 to the Feds.
 
2014-03-04 11:58:35 AM  

dk47: GoldSpider: HindiDiscoMonster: Find treasure.

Step 1: move said treasure out of USA to a country known for protecting it's banking customers (you can afford it now)
Step 2: move your family and assets out of the USA to a country where you can live like emperors till the day you die (that are unlikely to cooperate with US authorities
Step 3: obtain citizenship in new country, and renounce US citizenship
Step 4: with the loudest voice you can muster (no posting on the net) say:

Step 5: Enjoy your new life and fortune.

Yeah step 1 should be the first move after any windfall.

No.. wait for a relative to die, then find the coins in the back of their closet.



After a $5.25 million exclusion, you'd owe 40% of what's left....so you would owe only $1.9 in taxes...
 
2014-03-04 12:10:59 PM  
This is why you  never say this shiat out loud

First Rule of Maturity: Keep it to yourself
 
2014-03-04 12:16:58 PM  

dk47: dukeblue219: SpectroBoy: Life_is_a_carnivore: Or they could have laid low and cashed them in one at a time but they had to be attention whores.

Duh.

This.

My very first thought when the story came out was that they were asking for trouble or taxes, or both.

Best bet would be to sell them one at a time at different coin/gold shops.

Again, you cannot slowly convert $10MM worth of extremely valuable gold coins into cash without someone noticing. Furthermore, if you're someone barely getting by and suddenly start acquiring millions in cash the IRS is going to notice. You can't deposit the cash in a bank without drawing attention, and are you really going to buy a new car or new house with cash? Hell I'm not even positive you can sell gold coins worth thousands a piece for cash without generating a govt form somewhere.

The only option would be to sell them so slowly that nobody notices which kind of defeats the purpose of finding a fortune. Even taking a 75% loss and then investing the remainder would be way more practical.

Actually these gold coins are collectibles and not required to issue a 1099 to the Feds.


Collectibles (28% gain) are reported on 1099-DIV, Box 2d
 
2014-03-04 12:18:58 PM  
I'm all for civil disobedience and all, but it sure seems a lot of Farkers think the best course of action when you find a horde of gold is to become a criminal.  Would you choose $2 million free and clear?  Or, would you choose $10 million with a good possibility of going to prison for 10 years and losing it all?  Stolen property, no matter how long ago it was taken, belongs to the original owners or their decedents.  But, I do believe you'd need a lot more proof than a simple newspaper article.

Let's change it up a bit.  Let's say the gold coins were stolen from a little old lady 100 years ago and her family ended up poor and destitute.  Do her decedents deserve the loot or does the finder?  It shouldn't matter who had the items stolen or if they have a sob story, the law should treat everyone the same.  If you think the law should be different just because the government was the victim, then you have the mindset of a douchebag.

Oh, and moving out of the country and renouncing citizenship doesn't absolve you from a crime.  But, thanks for the laugh.
 
2014-03-04 12:36:08 PM  
How do they determine which value the finder's fee is based upon?

The $30,000 original theft value?
The $10,000,000 value due to the rarity and condition of the coins?
The $2,000,000 current gold value?
The $900,000 adjusted for inflation value of the original $30,000?

I'm going with the government picking the $30,000 original theft value because government.
 
2014-03-04 01:11:19 PM  
I figured the government would do everything possible to steal the gold.  Next up, IRS audit and seizure of their assets.  They'll be lucky to not be murdered by some DEA goons on falsified drug charges
 
2014-03-04 01:45:02 PM  

MayoSlather: jpbreon: Gold, real money, and you think the State is going to sit idly by?

The coup de grace will be when the State gives them worthless paper trash in return for their very real, never-been-worth-zero gold.

Because a worthless metal used primarily for jewelry has intrinsic value?


Since Lydia in the 7th century BC, humans have thought so.

The difference between paper and gold is the difference between being told there is value and believing there is value. Paper money has always required people to be told it has value - that is why the change-over to fiat currencies must be done by first issuing certificates redeemable in gold to removing the gold-backing, because people don't automatically assign much value to paper and this gave them a reference point - whereas gold does not.

Gold has been accepted as a currency, never once failing, for close to 3 millenia, where as every single paper currency has eventually failed.

So, too, will the dollar eventually fail. It would have failed before had it not been leveraged as a so-called reserve currency, but eventually it will reduce to the point that not even this can save it.
 
2014-03-04 01:54:49 PM  

The_Six_Fingered_Man: dk47: dukeblue219: SpectroBoy: Life_is_a_carnivore: Or they could have laid low and cashed them in one at a time but they had to be attention whores.

Duh.

This.

My very first thought when the story came out was that they were asking for trouble or taxes, or both.

Best bet would be to sell them one at a time at different coin/gold shops.

Again, you cannot slowly convert $10MM worth of extremely valuable gold coins into cash without someone noticing. Furthermore, if you're someone barely getting by and suddenly start acquiring millions in cash the IRS is going to notice. You can't deposit the cash in a bank without drawing attention, and are you really going to buy a new car or new house with cash? Hell I'm not even positive you can sell gold coins worth thousands a piece for cash without generating a govt form somewhere.

The only option would be to sell them so slowly that nobody notices which kind of defeats the purpose of finding a fortune. Even taking a 75% loss and then investing the remainder would be way more practical.

Actually these gold coins are collectibles and not required to issue a 1099 to the Feds.

Collectibles (28% gain) are reported on 1099-DIV, Box 2d


Let's say you buy a collectible gold coin, stick it in your sock drawer, and sell it to the local coin shop 10 years later for a gain?  Who is sending a 1099 to the IRS?

Quite different from purchasing a stock and holding for 10 years. Most likely, they are sending a 1099 for the entire value of the sale of stock.

/not saying you don't have to pay tax
 
2014-03-04 02:14:37 PM  

Watubi: I'm all for civil disobedience and all, but it sure seems a lot of Farkers think the best course of action when you find a horde of gold is to become a criminal.  Would you choose $2 million free and clear?  Or, would you choose $10 million with a good possibility of going to prison for 10 years and losing it all?  Stolen property, no matter how long ago it was taken, belongs to the original owners or their decedents.  But, I do believe you'd need a lot more proof than a simple newspaper article.

Let's change it up a bit.  Let's say the gold coins were stolen from a little old lady 100 years ago and her family ended up poor and destitute.  Do her decedents deserve the loot or does the finder?  It shouldn't matter who had the items stolen or if they have a sob story, the law should treat everyone the same.  If you think the law should be different just because the government was the victim, then you have the mindset of a douchebag.

Oh, and moving out of the country and renouncing citizenship doesn't absolve you from a crime.  But, thanks for the laugh.


I agree with you BUT, everyone and his mother is now going to come crawling out to the woodwork to make claims against these people....legitimate or not...it will cost them dearly, and more than money.  They have now entered into a nightmare that will last for years.   I would have melted the shiat down, sold it for scrap, taken my $1.3 million and kept my mouth shut.
 
2014-03-04 02:24:31 PM  

jpbreon: MayoSlather: jpbreon:

So, too, will the dollar eventually fail. It would have failed before had it not been leveraged as a so-called reserve currency, but eventually it will reduce to the point that not even this can save it.



and yet there are no countries currently using gold to back their currency.
 
2014-03-04 02:30:45 PM  
IIRC the coins found by the couple were minted in the mid 1880's, the robbery of the mint was in 1899 and someone was convicted of said robberyin the early 1900's. So why should they have to give them up?

This article is just all over the place, there is no real proof (yet, if at all) that any of these coins were the same coins taken from the mint in San Francisco.
 
2014-03-04 02:33:27 PM  

HooskerDoo: Those coins are so rare I doubt that one could sell them at all without drawing attention.


The problem is you can sell one or even five but NO you can't sell 100 even if spread over time w/o drawing MAJOR attention from the government and everyone else.

The best way to do this on the downlow is probably melt it all down and just make it into multiple gold bars or chunks and sell it off for clean currencies in the black market for a lot lower price BUT in going that route you're also dealing with people in the underworld and that always carries some inherent risk itself.
 
2014-03-04 02:39:29 PM  
the terrible part is will they be tax on the finders fees? because if so that would be considered ordinary income and they'll end up with $1.5 mil. Still good since it's basically 'free' $$ but considering the initial amount it must also suck big time
 
2014-03-04 02:44:01 PM  

jpbreon: I don't know what to say to people who honestly believe that one side is evil and the other, good.


But I bet that wont stop ya
 
2014-03-04 02:47:41 PM  

Isitoveryet: jpbreon: MayoSlather: jpbreon:

So, too, will the dollar eventually fail. It would have failed before had it not been leveraged as a so-called reserve currency, but eventually it will reduce to the point that not even this can save it.


and yet there are no countries currently using gold to back their currency.


Of course not. Gold does not allow the printing authorities to expand the money base at will. You can't simply conjure up more gold. You would have to find it, mine it, and so forth. Paper, on the other hand - more accurately, a few zeros added by a computer - can be created for next to nothing. This process is inflation, the hidden tax, by which purchasing power can be reduced from everyone holding the currency to the people who print money. This is why counterfeiting is one of three crimes listed in the Constitution.

Gold meant that spending had to be done over the table, so to speak. The only way to expand government, make war, enrich friends, etc, was to tax it from the citizenry. The citizens then would shove their fist through the collective face of the government elites. Paper money made it possible to do all these things without the citizens understanding or even detecting it.

This is why governments love paper currency, and why paper currencies always fail. The temptation to devalue the currency for one's benefit is simply too much for humans to resist.
 
2014-03-04 02:54:34 PM  

TerminalEchoes: Satanic_Hamster: Don't click on derp cites.


How do you know it's a derp site? Daily Kos said so?
 
2014-03-04 03:02:31 PM  

jpbreon: Isitoveryet: jpbreon: MayoSlather: jpbreon:

So, too, will the dollar eventually fail. It would have failed before had it not been leveraged as a so-called reserve currency, but eventually it will reduce to the point that not even this can save it.


and yet there are no countries currently using gold to back their currency.

Of course not. Gold does not allow the printing authorities to expand the money base at will. You can't simply conjure up more gold. You would have to find it, mine it, and so forth. Paper, on the other hand - more accurately, a few zeros added by a computer - can be created for next to nothing. This process is inflation, the hidden tax, by which purchasing power can be reduced from everyone holding the currency to the people who print money. This is why counterfeiting is one of three crimes listed in the Constitution.

Gold meant that spending had to be done over the table, so to speak. The only way to expand government, make war, enrich friends, etc, was to tax it from the citizenry. The citizens then would shove their fist through the collective face of the government elites. Paper money made it possible to do all these things without the citizens understanding or even detecting it.

This is why governments love paper currency, and why paper currencies always fail. The temptation to devalue the currency for one's benefit is simply too much for humans to resist.


I love paper currency too, I wouldn't be able to compete with or accumulate existing wealth if we still only valued gold. there simply isn't enough of it to go around & that leaves a majority of it in the hands of the already wealthy (family money) and the gov't (who own majority of un-mined lands).

and do you believe that holding it in reserve keeps the value of gold inflated? I liken it to banks sitting on several properties in any given neighborhood, they don't want to flood the market & reduce home value so they sit on properties, keeping the value artificial, and trickle out their assets to make the largest returns.
think how many more poor citizens there would be if gold was still the currency of choice
 
2014-03-04 03:13:24 PM  

dk47: The_Six_Fingered_Man: dk47: dukeblue219: SpectroBoy: Life_is_a_carnivore: Or they could have laid low and cashed them in one at a time but they had to be attention whores.

Duh.

This.

My very first thought when the story came out was that they were asking for trouble or taxes, or both.

Best bet would be to sell them one at a time at different coin/gold shops.

Again, you cannot slowly convert $10MM worth of extremely valuable gold coins into cash without someone noticing. Furthermore, if you're someone barely getting by and suddenly start acquiring millions in cash the IRS is going to notice. You can't deposit the cash in a bank without drawing attention, and are you really going to buy a new car or new house with cash? Hell I'm not even positive you can sell gold coins worth thousands a piece for cash without generating a govt form somewhere.

The only option would be to sell them so slowly that nobody notices which kind of defeats the purpose of finding a fortune. Even taking a 75% loss and then investing the remainder would be way more practical.

Actually these gold coins are collectibles and not required to issue a 1099 to the Feds.

Collectibles (28% gain) are reported on 1099-DIV, Box 2d

Let's say you buy a collectible gold coin, stick it in your sock drawer, and sell it to the local coin shop 10 years later for a gain?  Who is sending a 1099 to the IRS?

Quite different from purchasing a stock and holding for 10 years. Most likely, they are sending a 1099 for the entire value of the sale of stock.

/not saying you don't have to pay tax


The coin shop has the responsibility to prepare and file the 1099-DIV and send it to the IRS.

And yes, it is quite different than selling a stock. Which is probably why the two sales are reported on different forms. Stock sales are reported on 1099-B.
 
2014-03-04 03:22:54 PM  
Allow me to explain the proper procedure for this sort of situation

1.  Find coins.
2.  Shut your damn mouth.
3.  Trade/sell/etc the coins one at a time as you need money.
4.  Shut your damn mouth.
5.  Better call Saul.
 
2014-03-04 03:58:20 PM  

Bad_Seed: But, but GOLD. How can government take? FIAT currency! RON PAUL!


Wow, you're stupid.
 
2014-03-04 04:03:25 PM  

Pangea: Life_is_a_carnivore: Or they could have laid low and cashed them in one at a time but they had to be attention whores.

Duh.

$30,000 worth of gold coins at face value is 1500-$20 gold pieces, which weigh an ounce each.

1500 ounces of gold at today's prices is worth just over $2 million.

These coins are worth 5x as much as a set, due to the collector value.

Coincidentally, 25% of $10 million is STILL $500,000 more than they're worth by weight.


And,  one could argue they only owe the government the original amount stolen/missing. ~ $30,000

I personally would have a hard time destroying those coins for obvious reasons, but your mileage may vary.

Plus, you have a cool story to tell people and get to do the talk show circuit and make some more cash with your 15 minutes of fame.
 
2014-03-04 04:10:52 PM  

Gentoolive: Bad_Seed: But, but GOLD. How can government take? FIAT currency! RON PAUL!

Wow, you're stupid.


He's just ridiculing the Paulestinians. Is your sarcasm meter completely broken?
 
2014-03-04 04:15:22 PM  

Watubi: Let's change it up a bit.  Let's say the gold coins were stolen from a little old lady 100 years ago and her family ended up poor and destitute.  Do her decedents deserve the loot or does the finder?  It shouldn't matter who had the items stolen or if they have a sob story, the law should treat everyone the same.  If you think the law should be different just because the government was the victim, then you have the mindset of a douchebag.


If a criminal stole $100 from a Federally Insured Bank 20 years ago, does the restitution request account for inflation of the value of the original $100?

Why does any restitution have to be the actual items? If it was paper money in tatters, that would be one thing.
If these were coins heavily weathered by stream flooding over time, it's another.
These coins were preserved perfectly, and the government wants the perfect coins in return?

Why not sell the coins at market to collectors and buy the government their own cheaper used coins in return?

Again, the assumption that the government is going to take coins that used to be in vaults and sell them to collectors is funny.  Probably has been done before, but it's still rather funny.

//Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go to my closet and dig out the 1964 proof set still encased in the original plastic and go wonder what it'll fetch on the open market
 
2014-03-04 05:14:06 PM  
Isitoveryet:
I love paper currency too, I wouldn't be able to compete with or accumulate existing wealth if we still only valued gold. there simply isn't enough of it to go around & that leaves a majority of it in the hands of the already wealthy (family money) and the gov't (who own majority of un-mined lands).

and do you believe that holding it in reserve keeps the value of gold inflated? I liken it to banks sitting on several properties in any given neighborhood, they don't want to flood the market & reduce home value so they sit on properties, keeping the value artificial, and trick ...


Gold's relative price can rise and fall, just as it does now. Its properties - namely that it is easily divisible and can be measured accurately - mean that each unit of gold will rise and fall, as well. If you had 100 units of gold, that were valued at 1000 dollars (using dollars as a generic unit) and removed 10 units of gold from circulation, the value doesn't change. What happens is each year, as the GDP rises, each unit of gold rises as well/ People who save their units of gold will experience a RISE in their purchasing power! This encourages responsible saving, and encourages lending, as the unit of gold you load will be repaid in a unit of gold with more purchasing power.

Of course, this is offset slightly by any new gold dug up and entering the economy.
 
2014-03-04 05:40:45 PM  
The $30,000 stolen from the mint was paid back by Superintendent  Leach of the mint with some donations also made by employees. The mint has no claim.

More importantly, these coins have nothing to do with the mint theft.
 
2014-03-04 06:30:25 PM  
yeah, an expensive lesson to learn, keeping your mouth shut

could have had ten million as they needed it
stupid farks
 
2014-03-04 06:51:03 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2014-03-04 06:51:25 PM  

bk3k: Allow me to explain the proper procedure for this sort of situation

1.  Find coins.
2.  Shut your damn mouth.
3.  Trade/sell/etc the coins one at a time as you need money.
4.  Shut your damn mouth.
5.  Better call Saul.


Yeah, I would change that up a bit.

1. Find coins
2. Shut your damn mouth
3. Call Saul, who has connections to a reliable fence
4. Pay a few finders fees of your own
5. Walk away with $5-$8million
6. Shut your damn mouth
 
2014-03-04 06:59:00 PM  
Said it before, will say it again: the only person they should have told about their find was a really good tax attorney.
 
2014-03-04 10:39:42 PM  
Actually they should only pay tax on the face value of the currency

taxes on 28K

problem solved
 
2014-03-04 10:41:18 PM  

mr_larry: The $30,000 stolen from the mint was paid back by Superintendent  Leach of the mint with some donations also made by employees. The mint has no claim.

More importantly, these coins have nothing to do with the mint theft.


This is Fark, you are not allowed to present facts here
 
2014-03-04 10:57:29 PM  

SVenus: If a criminal stole $100 from a Federally Insured Bank 20 years ago, does the restitution request account for inflation of the value of the original $100?

Why does any restitution have to be the actual items? If it was paper money in tatters, that would be one thing.
If these were coins heavily weathered by stream flooding over time, it's another.
These coins were preserved perfectly, and the government wants the perfect coins in return?

Why not sell the coins at market to collectors and buy the government their own cheaper used coins in return?

Again, the assumption that the government is going to take coins that used to be in vaults and sell them to collectors is funny.  Probably has been done before, but it's still rather funny.


There's apparently a big overlap between "people who think the government is the devil" and "people who don't understand law very well". Imagine that.

Does anyone really suppose that finding a cache of coins, then having someone fish out a newspaper report from around the same time of a theft of about (but not exactly) the same amount and type of coins, somehow constitutes legal proof of identity between what was found and what was stolen?

//Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go to my closet and dig out the 1964 proof set still encased in the original plastic and go wonder what it'll fetch on the open market

Well, unfortunately, it's pretty much worth silver value. There are an awful lot of the things floating around. If you've got the "accented hair" type (Google it), it's worth a bit more, and if it's an exceptionally nice specimen it can go fairly high -- but such nice specimens are extremely rare. (That's why they cost more.)
 
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