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(PJ Media)   That couple that found $10 million in gold coins? They might not lose 50% to the government. They might lose all of it to the government -- except for a 25% finder's reward   (pjmedia.com) divider line 246
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16357 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Mar 2014 at 6:50 AM (34 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-04 07:48:35 AM  
Government should do themselves a PR favor and not get all grabby in situations like this.
 
2014-03-04 07:48:37 AM  

dready zim: Melt it down. Then you just have a load of gold that cannot be traced back to an owner. Turn it into nuggets. Throw the gold onto the ground molten to mae nuggets and say you found the nuggets like that to the guy who is buying it without any questions...


Brilliant!

Turn $10M in gold into $48k in gold because if you don't, you may only get $2.5M in cash.  Possibly.

/you should run a seminar
 
2014-03-04 07:49:42 AM  

dready zim: NEVER tell anyone you just found a load of gold.

Except me of course. I`ll buy it off you for a good price.

Melt it down. Then you just have a load of gold that cannot be traced back to an owner. Turn it into nuggets. Throw the gold onto the ground molten to mae nuggets and say you found the nuggets like that to the guy who is buying it without any questions...

Once you have the cash in your hand and can afford a good lawyer THEN say "Look at MEEEEEEE! I`M AN ATTENTION WHORE!!!".


Destroying American history in the name of profit. How very Republican of you.
 
2014-03-04 07:51:00 AM  

colinspooky: Subbs sounds vaguely surprised. I am sure the coins did not belong to the couple, so why would the real owner simply accept the loss after they have been recovered. Possession really does not mean ownership, no matter how often the cliche is trotted out


The owner abandoned it on their land. After a certain amount of time, it is theirs. If it was stolen, the owner or an insurance company can make a claim on it. It still doesn't belong to the government.

/legal disclaimer: I do not have a GED in law. Do not take my legal advice.
 
2014-03-04 07:52:21 AM  

Maledeus: Should have melted it all down and made non-descript bars...


dready zim: NEVER tell anyone you just found a load of gold.

Except me of course. I`ll buy it off you for a good price.

Melt it down. Then you just have a load of gold that cannot be traced back to an owner. Turn it into nuggets. Throw the gold onto the ground molten to mae nuggets and say you found the nuggets like that to the guy who is buying it without any questions...

Once you have the cash in your hand and can afford a good lawyer THEN say "Look at MEEEEEEE! I`M AN ATTENTION WHORE!!!".


Except the 25% finders fee is probably going to be far more than the melt value of the entire horde.
 
2014-03-04 07:53:12 AM  

Nuclear Monk: Rhino_man: Harlow_B_Ashur: Write the Feds a check for $28,000 and be done with it.

And if they're smart, they'll hire a lawyer that will be able to argue exactly that.  $30,000 in currency was stolen.  $30,000 in currency was returned.

Hell, they could even return it  adjusted for inflation and only have to cut a check for about $900k

That's what I was just calculating too.  Seems like that would be a reasonable argument to make.


To which, I'm sure, the Government would argue that the physical stolen property itself is what must be returned.  The finder's lawyer would surely then argue that the actual currency stolen only needs to be held by the government when used as evidence in a criminal trial against the thief, and since the thief is CLEARLY dead, a return of equivalent face value after inflation should suffice.

It's murky on both sides, and it would depend on the judge if it came to that... but I'm sure most judges would be sympathetic to the finders and agree to the $900k figure.
 
2014-03-04 07:53:39 AM  

threadjackistan: Maledeus: Should have melted it all down and made non-descript bars...

dready zim: NEVER tell anyone you just found a load of gold.

Except me of course. I`ll buy it off you for a good price.

Melt it down. Then you just have a load of gold that cannot be traced back to an owner. Turn it into nuggets. Throw the gold onto the ground molten to mae nuggets and say you found the nuggets like that to the guy who is buying it without any questions...

Once you have the cash in your hand and can afford a good lawyer THEN say "Look at MEEEEEEE! I`M AN ATTENTION WHORE!!!".

Except the 25% finders fee is probably going to be far more than the melt value of the entire hordehoard.

/FTFM
 
2014-03-04 07:53:40 AM  

MayoSlather: Government should do themselves a PR favor and not get all grabby in situations like this.


Why would a government care about being popluar?

What if a government becomes so unpopular, that the leader has to flee?
That's when Putin gets all land-grabby and comes over in unmarked vehicles and just hangs out.

Do YOU want Putin in you naval bases, setting you up the bomb?

/Didn't think so.
 
2014-03-04 07:56:38 AM  

badhatharry: If it was stolen, the owner or an insurance company can make a claim on it. It still doesn't belong to the government.


IF IT WAS STOLEN FROM THE MINT THE GOVERNMENT WAS THE OWNER!!!!
 
2014-03-04 07:56:52 AM  

lucksi: So stolen goods remain stolen goods forever?

Makes me wonder why things like tax evasion can only go to court within 10 years. You bilked the state out of 10 millions 11 years ago? Well, you are in the clear.


Worked for Mitt Romney.
 
2014-03-04 07:57:58 AM  

Bad_Seed: But, but GOLD. How can government take? FIAT currency! RON PAUL!


Fix it Again, Tony currency?
 
2014-03-04 08:00:21 AM  
Wow, some of you are exceptionally dumb. Does anybody think they could have sold these coins without it being big news? Absolute best case scenario, they would have gotten 5-10 cents on the dollar, and risk getting in trouble for not reporting that on their taxes.

Also, the government can only take the coins if they prove they were stolen. That's only fair though. If you leave your phone in the back of a cab, does it suddenly become property of the next person in the taxi? Finders keepers?
 
2014-03-04 08:02:41 AM  

HooskerDoo: Those coins are so rare I doubt that one could sell them at all without drawing attention.


Get a crucible and an oxy torch and melt it down
 
2014-03-04 08:03:25 AM  

HindiDiscoMonster: BiffDangler: HindiDiscoMonster: Step 1: move said treasure out of USA to a country known for protecting it's banking customers (you can afford it now)

That's a lot more difficult than you think



Just make sure to package it as a coin collection would be packaged first in case of inspection... send it right to the bank (whom you have made prior arrangements with).


/NSA disclaimer: Information is provided here for entertainment purposes only. This information is not intended to be used in any way to defraud the US Government or any entity therein.


i have a feeling you are going to get nailed pretty hard if you get busted trying to smuggle coins stolen from a us mint out of the country. best bet is to get a good lawyer asap and get your payday and move on with your rich life vs spending the next few years on your criminal trial.
 
2014-03-04 08:03:55 AM  

Savage Belief: You really think our gub'ment is gonna pass on $10 million in gold?


$10 million is a drop in the bucket for even state governments, let alone the IRS.  Hell, it's nothing to any decent-sized city.  No, there are two factors at work here, and revenue is neither.

One, the government is understandably, intensely jealous about any money stolen from it.  Finding it isn't a crime, but it's a blessing if you're allowed to keep anything other than a finder's fee.  To a very real extent, a government IS its currency.  So while the government has been known to let people walk away with items of various value (a friend of mine has a WW2 "lend-lease" pistol that is technically U.S. government property), if they suspect legal tender has been stolen they do not fark around.  The Secret Service was not founded to protect politicians; that is their most famous but secondary objective.  Their primary purpose, to this day, is to protect the integrity of U.S. currency.*

The other factor is that this is honestly a very good policy.  Blatant shameless hypocrisy aside, it's in society's best interests that people create wealth through productivity than dig holes in their backyards looking for lost treasure.  If I was King for a day I'd do away with all sorts of government corruption, Vlad the Impaler style, but this is one particular idea I wouldn't touch; if anything I'd set the maximum recoverable amount (whether by taxation or confiscation-plus-finder's-fee) to 10%.  The alternative is the furthest thing imaginable from a meritocracy:  rewarding blind luck over productivity.

*Bailouts and corruption don't count; in those cases the government is giving the money away.
 
2014-03-04 08:06:46 AM  

baka-san: badhatharry: If it was stolen, the owner or an insurance company can make a claim on it. It still doesn't belong to the government.

IF IT WAS STOLEN FROM THE MINT THE GOVERNMENT WAS THE OWNER!!!!


I should read articles before posting.
 
2014-03-04 08:07:01 AM  

Shvetz: Wow, some of you are exceptionally dumb. Does anybody think they could have sold these coins without it being big news? Absolute best case scenario, they would have gotten 5-10 cents on the dollar, and risk getting in trouble for not reporting that on their taxes.

Also, the government can only take the coins if they prove they were stolen. That's only fair though. If you leave your phone in the back of a cab, does it suddenly become property of the next person in the taxi? Finders keepers?


For items of historic importance, finders keepers can hold true only if the finder has deep enough pockets to hold what they found. Most museums have to return what they stole from the Native Americans 100+ years ago, but the British government (through the British Museum) can afford the controversy and international court actions for the Elgin Marbles and the Rosetta Stone that they stole 200 years ago. Private individuals who come across 100+ year old gold coins that disappeared from a government mint do not have a chance.
 
2014-03-04 08:07:52 AM  

badhatharry: colinspooky: Subbs sounds vaguely surprised. I am sure the coins did not belong to the couple, so why would the real owner simply accept the loss after they have been recovered. Possession really does not mean ownership, no matter how often the cliche is trotted out

The owner abandoned it on their land. After a certain amount of time, it is theirs. If it was stolen, the owner or an insurance company can make a claim on it. It still doesn't belong to the government.

/legal disclaimer: I do not have a GED in law. Do not take my legal advice.


And if it was stolen from the government?  I saw something like this on some discovery Channel show. There were some coins that weren't supposed to be circulated stolen from a US mint in the early 1900's. Most of the coins were recovered soon after, but there were something like 20 or 30 still floating around. Over the next 20 or 30 years they were able to recover more of the coins as they popped up at auctions or people tried to sell them to coin dealers, so that know there are only I think 10 unaccounted for. And it is not believed that those 10 will ever be found because the people who have them know that if it is ever known where they are the government will confiscate them because they are stolen property.
 
MFK
2014-03-04 08:08:16 AM  
the problem with stealing directly from the US Government is that the Gov't is generally considered to be "immortal" legally.

I don't know why people are assuming that just because these folks are the current owners of that property that they have a "right" to whatever is on there. It's not like they bought a gold coin tree that naturally produces rare coins. They literally stumbled upon a cache of stolen coins and the owners are wanting them back now that they're found. "Finders - Keepers" might work on the schoolyard, but it's not a law or anything.
 
2014-03-04 08:08:53 AM  

rebelyell2006: dready zim: NEVER tell anyone you just found a load of gold.

Except me of course. I`ll buy it off you for a good price.

Melt it down. Then you just have a load of gold that cannot be traced back to an owner. Turn it into nuggets. Throw the gold onto the ground molten to make nuggets and say you found the nuggets like that to the guy who is buying it without any questions...

Once you have the cash in your hand and can afford a good lawyer THEN say "Look at MEEEEEEE! I`M AN ATTENTION WHORE!!!".

Destroying American history in the name of profit. How very Republican of you.


Your `history` only is as old as my grannies teeth. Show me something from the USA a thousand years old and I`ll be impressed. Then I`ll show you something thousands of years older than even your Jebus.

Also, your political bias is showing.
 
2014-03-04 08:09:41 AM  

Pumpernickel bread: HooskerDoo: Those coins are so rare I doubt that one could sell them at all without drawing attention.

Get a crucible and an oxy torch and melt it down


Ooh, don`t suggest that, you`re a Republican if you do!
 
2014-03-04 08:11:11 AM  
A couple of people have said it upthread, but bears repeating:

If you come into a bunch of money, a) shut up, b) get a lawyer, c) shut up.
 
2014-03-04 08:12:17 AM  

Rhino_man: As a general rule, if a website's ads are telling you to buy gold because gold's price never falls even after the price of gold tanked in 2012 and 2013, it's because they think you're an idiot who will believe anything they tell you.

For example: Democrats are the real racists in American politics. That's what I have you farkied as.


I got him as:
(favorite: Fark indy/douche / racist)
 
2014-03-04 08:13:19 AM  
God always gets His blood.
 
2014-03-04 08:14:02 AM  

MFK: the problem with stealing directly from the US Government is that the Gov't is generally considered to be "immortal" legally.

I don't know why people are assuming that just because these folks are the current owners of that property that they have a "right" to whatever is on there. It's not like they bought a gold coin tree that naturally produces rare coins. They literally stumbled upon a cache of stolen coins and the owners are wanting them back now that they're found. "Finders - Keepers" might work on the schoolyard, but it's not a law or anything.


There is a way the schoolyard tactics work. If you take someones lunch (because your mom is an alcoholic and just puts sugar packets in your lunchbox) and eat it before the teacher arrives then you still have a full belly and, sans empty lunchbox, you can claim they are just trying to get you into trouble because you mom is an alcoholic. In the absence of any other evidence you`ll probably be ok as long as it doesn`t happen often.

Some things that are not laws still work inside the legal framework, you just need no morals.
 
2014-03-04 08:15:33 AM  

dready zim: rebelyell2006: dready zim: NEVER tell anyone you just found a load of gold.

Except me of course. I`ll buy it off you for a good price.

Melt it down. Then you just have a load of gold that cannot be traced back to an owner. Turn it into nuggets. Throw the gold onto the ground molten to make nuggets and say you found the nuggets like that to the guy who is buying it without any questions...

Once you have the cash in your hand and can afford a good lawyer THEN say "Look at MEEEEEEE! I`M AN ATTENTION WHORE!!!".

Destroying American history in the name of profit. How very Republican of you.

Your `history` only is as old as my grannies teeth. Show me something from the USA a thousand years old and I`ll be impressed. Then I`ll show you something thousands of years older than even your Jebus.

Also, your political bias is showing.


You do know that Native Americans have been here for thousands of years. And Norsemen showed up a thousand years ago.

And who is Jebus? Is he from the Judeo-Christian pantheon?
 
2014-03-04 08:16:05 AM  
That couple that found $10 million in gold coins? They might not lose 50% to the government. They might lose all of it to the government -- except for a 25% finder's reward

Awfully clumsy way to say they might lose 75% of it.
 
2014-03-04 08:17:10 AM  
Capital gains taxes are the loophole the government uses to give you five squares back for every 6 squares ahead card you draw.
 
2014-03-04 08:17:32 AM  
You mean, someone found something that was not there's and are able to still collect 2.5 million?
I will still take it.
 
2014-03-04 08:17:53 AM  

flup: That couple that found $10 million in gold coins? They might not lose 50% to the government. They might lose all of it to the government -- except for a 25% finder's reward

Awfully clumsy way to say they might lose 75% of it.


not bad as it was never theres to begin with. if someone stole a brinks truck and parked it in your garage you are not now rich......
 
2014-03-04 08:19:31 AM  
Those poor people and their $2.5 million windfall. They worked hard to stumble across that unearned fortune!
 
2014-03-04 08:20:58 AM  

Life_is_a_carnivore: Or they could have laid low and cashed them in one at a time but they had to be attention whores.

Duh.


This.

My very first thought when the story came out was that they were asking for trouble or taxes, or both.

Best bet would be to sell them one at a time at different coin/gold shops.
 
2014-03-04 08:21:43 AM  

Rhino_man: racists


So, another thread where the only mention of racism is you. This is the only time the word racists is in the entire thread. No racism either.

You love the racism, don`t you.

rape, taxes, rape, racism, rape, terrorism, rape, black people, rape, children, rape, terrorists, rape, abortion, rape, obama.

Sarah Palin.

I bet you just came.
 
2014-03-04 08:23:47 AM  

dready zim: Rhino_man: racists

So, another thread where the only mention of racism is you. This is the only time the word racists is in the entire thread. No racism either.

You love the racism, don`t you.

rape, taxes, rape, racism, rape, terrorism, rape, black people, rape, children, rape, terrorists, rape, abortion, rape, obama.

Sarah Palin.

I bet you just came.


There are many threads on Fark. Do you think this one exists in a vacuum, or that the posters here do not have a reputation from their thousands of previous posts?
 
2014-03-04 08:24:35 AM  

poot_rootbeer: Those poor people and their $2.5 million windfall. They worked hard to stumble across that unearned fortune!


You hated "The Goonies"
didn't you?
 
2014-03-04 08:24:47 AM  

GoldSpider: Two words: "Prove it."


Yep. The government likely can't prove that they are the stolen coins, so it's just a nifty theory.

I had guessed that they were stolen, but I thought it was a mine's payroll that got knocked over, not the SF mint.
 
2014-03-04 08:25:42 AM  
If some of the sea salvage cases are indicative, the government will seize it all and claim no finders fee.  In fact, I wouldn't be completely surprised if an investigation for the receipt of the stolen property is begun as a way to force seizure of the couple's property (as an addition to "park land").
 
2014-03-04 08:25:58 AM  
"Grandpa gave those to me when I was a little boy."
 
2014-03-04 08:26:11 AM  

GDubDub: Wow, there is some real Grade A derp in the comments of TFA.


Um...there's some Grade A derp in the comments right here...
 
2014-03-04 08:26:24 AM  

dready zim: Rhino_man: racists

So, another thread where the only mention of racism is you. This is the only time the word racists is in the entire thread. No racism either.

You love the racism, don`t you.

rape, taxes, rape, racism, rape, terrorism, rape, black people, rape, children, rape, terrorists, rape, abortion, rape, obama.

Sarah Palin.

I bet you just came.


i.dailymail.co.uk
Tu quoques don't work on me, son.
 
2014-03-04 08:28:18 AM  

HindiDiscoMonster: Cybernetic: The longer I live, the more I learn the value of keeping my mouth shut.

That said, a 25% finder's reward is still $2.5 million, which isn't bad considering all that they did was stumble across some old cans while they were walking their dogs.

it only hurts a little if they rape rape you a little?


If the gold turns out to be stolen property, and the law says that stolen property belongs to the original owner, then the property goes back to the original owner--even if that original owner happens to be the government.

It would be great for them if they were able to keep the whole thing. If law says they can't, and they "only" get $2.5 million, they're still way ahead of the game. I don't see anything rape-rapey (or even just plain old rapey) in that.

If YOU were the original owner, I'm willing to bet that you'd want your property back.
 
2014-03-04 08:28:43 AM  
also why does everyone think they didn't consult legal council. he may have adviced them to go public and get as much exposure as possible for pr reasons realizing the gov was going to attempt to fark them on this.
 
2014-03-04 08:28:53 AM  
Here's your lesson about making things too public.  Just melt them down and sell them at market value.  Problem solved.
 
2014-03-04 08:29:38 AM  

GoldSpider: Two words: "Prove it."


my thoughts exactly
 
2014-03-04 08:29:53 AM  
dready zim

"Your `history` only is as old as my grannies teeth. Show me something from the USA a thousand years old and I`ll be impressed. Then I`ll show you something thousands of years older than even your Jebus"

Old = historic? Or is your point that because there are more artifacts in the UK over 1000 years old some sort of moral superiority is attained?
 
2014-03-04 08:30:39 AM  

dready zim: Your `history` only is as old as my grannies teeth. Show me something from the USA a thousand years old and I`ll be impressed.


That would be a really good trick, considering that the USA is just under 238 years old.
 
2014-03-04 08:33:54 AM  

SpectroBoy: Life_is_a_carnivore: Or they could have laid low and cashed them in one at a time but they had to be attention whores.

Duh.

This.

My very first thought when the story came out was that they were asking for trouble or taxes, or both.

Best bet would be to sell them one at a time at different coin/gold shops.


Again, you cannot slowly convert $10MM worth of extremely valuable gold coins into cash without someone noticing. Furthermore, if you're someone barely getting by and suddenly start acquiring millions in cash the IRS is going to notice. You can't deposit the cash in a bank without drawing attention, and are you really going to buy a new car or new house with cash? Hell I'm not even positive you can sell gold coins worth thousands a piece for cash without generating a govt form somewhere.

The only option would be to sell them so slowly that nobody notices which kind of defeats the purpose of finding a fortune. Even taking a 75% loss and then investing the remainder would be way more practical.
 
2014-03-04 08:35:23 AM  

dukeblue219: Again, you cannot slowly convert $10MM worth of extremely valuable gold coins into cash without someone noticing. Furthermore, if you're someone barely getting by and suddenly start acquiring millions in cash the IRS is going to notice. You can't deposit the cash in a bank without drawing attention, and are you really going to buy a new car or new house with cash? Hell I'm not even positive you can sell gold coins worth thousands a piece for cash without generating a govt form somewhere.



Hide it in the insulation of your laundry room.
It was good enough for Walter White!
 
2014-03-04 08:37:15 AM  
Do they belong in a museum?
 
2014-03-04 08:38:20 AM  

rebelyell2006: dready zim: rebelyell2006: dready zim: NEVER tell anyone you just found a load of gold.

Except me of course. I`ll buy it off you for a good price.

Melt it down. Then you just have a load of gold that cannot be traced back to an owner. Turn it into nuggets. Throw the gold onto the ground molten to make nuggets and say you found the nuggets like that to the guy who is buying it without any questions...

Once you have the cash in your hand and can afford a good lawyer THEN say "Look at MEEEEEEE! I`M AN ATTENTION WHORE!!!".

Destroying American history in the name of profit. How very Republican of you.

Your `history` only is as old as my grannies teeth. Show me something from the USA a thousand years old and I`ll be impressed. Then I`ll show you something thousands of years older than even your Jebus.

Also, your political bias is showing.

You do know that Native Americans have been here for thousands of years. And Norsemen showed up a thousand years ago.

And who is Jebus? Is he from the Judeo-Christian pantheon?


Of course I do. I just find it funny when the USA history is regarded as the only one or the only important one. Also when people allude to America existing before whenever (1492? C16? C18? IDK) America wasn`t in existence a thousand years ago so there cannot be any artifacts from America then.

Jebus is the guy the preachers bang on about. You know, the offspring of Yaltabaoth Saklas Samael, who is the corrupted bastard child of sophia. They are another version of Dionysus and others (Born of a Virgin on December 25th, Killed and Resurrected after Three Days)...

The character has been recycled in many religions, not just the judeo-christian one.
 
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