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(The Local)   Sweden PM: "Russia's invasion is understandable"   (thelocal.se) divider line 174
    More: Asinine, Sweden, Russia, Solange Knowles, conservative coalition, Crimean, Prime Minister of Sweden, invasions, social democrats  
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9911 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Mar 2014 at 6:35 PM (28 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-03-03 04:47:55 PM
You know who else had foreign policy positions that pissed off some of the world's major powers?

Olof Palme.
 
2014-03-03 05:06:01 PM
Is it time to choose sides for the Big Game?
 
2014-03-03 05:43:00 PM
It is understandable.  That doesn't make it right, but it's not as if Putin woke up one morning and decided to invade Crimea.
 
2014-03-03 06:03:04 PM

ZAZ: You know who else had foreign policy positions that pissed off some of the world's major powers?

Olof Palme.


I'm still amazed that Swedish Police have still not definitively linked anyone to Palme's murder. Then again, I'm surprised that neighboring Australia could misplace its Prime Minister...
 
2014-03-03 06:37:26 PM

MrBallou: Is it time to choose sides for the Big Game?


This could get very messy very quickly. It could also just fizzle out. It's really hard to tell without having more information from direct sources.
 
2014-03-03 06:37:28 PM
You used to be cool Sweden.
 
2014-03-03 06:40:18 PM
"Understandable" does not mean "Justifiable". It's a little like the Chris Rock comedy bit about OJ and Nicole Simpson. OJ killed her because he thought she was screwing another guy. Yeah, murder is wrong, and he shouldn't have done it, but I understand.
 
2014-03-03 06:41:01 PM
"It's somewhat understandable that Russia is acting on concerns about the Russian minority of Crimea and eastern Ukraine, but not in the way they're doing it.
 
2014-03-03 06:42:58 PM

Mentat: It is understandable.  That doesn't make it right, but it's not as if Putin woke up one morning and decided to invade Crimea.



Which is pretty much exactly what the Swedish PM's point was:

"It's somewhat understandable that Russia is acting on concerns about the Russian minority of Crimea and eastern Ukraine, but not in the way they're doing it. There are of course methods for talking to the Ukrainian government and calm down the situation in that way," he told reporters.


He said that the Russians' concerns about Crimea were understandable, but their actions were not. I don't really think he said anything wrong at all.
 
2014-03-03 06:44:47 PM
I thought PM stood for Prime Models

img.fark.netimg.fark.netimg.fark.net
 
2014-03-03 06:45:23 PM
www.patentspostgrant.com
 
2014-03-03 06:47:03 PM

MrBallou: Is it time to choose sides for the Big Game?


You bet.  It's easy to be a tough guy with another person's ass.  The people who live near the Russians....you know, the people whose shiat is gonna get knocked over in case this thing escalates.....are not so enthusiastic about provoking the Russians.
 
2014-03-03 06:47:51 PM
Wonder what his fark handle is.
 
2014-03-03 06:47:52 PM

Mentat: It is understandable.  That doesn't make it right, but it's not as if Putin woke up one morning and decided to invade Crimea.


This.

I don't have an solution that works for everyone here, but the idea that this is a travesty is really really over-exaggerating things. This won't lead to WW3, it'll probably lead to a pissed off Ukraine.

Honestly, the only thing that could work is complete shared territory of the region, with equal access free of any sort of tax or fee for importation/exportation between Russia and the Ukraine, as this is really what they're both looking for. It's economic, nothing else
 
2014-03-03 06:48:33 PM
imageshack.com
 
2014-03-03 06:48:49 PM
Look at a map of the area, subtract Finland.

And that's diplomacy.
 
2014-03-03 06:49:02 PM

Atomic Spunk: "Understandable" does not mean "Justifiable". It's a little like the Chris Rock comedy bit about OJ and Nicole Simpson. OJ killed her because he thought she was screwing another guy. Yeah, murder is wrong, and he shouldn't have done it, but I understand.


depends on who said it. if China, Cuba, NK etc says it you woudn't be defending them.
 
2014-03-03 06:49:59 PM
Wait, someone took a soundbite out of context, and people are jumping at it, without finding out the real context? Unpossible!
 
2014-03-03 06:52:28 PM

Mentat: It is understandable.  That doesn't make it right, but it's not as if Putin woke up one morning and decided to invade Crimea.


Anybody who thinks Russia is just going to hand those deep water ports over is higher than I'm going to be in about 2 hours.
 
2014-03-03 06:53:03 PM
Sweden--a Nordic melange of one dollop of Quisling, two measures of Kissinger.

/actually the guy said protecting ethnic Russians was understandable but NOT the way Russia was doing it
 
2014-03-03 06:53:23 PM
Where is that quote in the article subby? Can't find it. You suck.
 
2014-03-03 06:53:24 PM
I think it's understandable. they have interests there they need to protect.
if anyone should be able to understand that it's the US

We'd do the same thing if one of our borders with a huge naval base was threatened.
 
2014-03-03 06:54:37 PM
Should I be mad at Russia?
/No farks here
 
2014-03-03 06:55:43 PM

Fissile: MrBallou: Is it time to choose sides for the Big Game?

You bet.  It's easy to be a tough guy with another person's ass.  The people who live near the Russians....you know, the people whose shiat is gonna get knocked over in case this thing escalates.....are not so enthusiastic about provoking the Russians.


...uh, they aren't enthusiastic about PROVOKING the Russians.  Responding to the Russians' unhidden aggression is something else entirely.  Which they are doing, since they remember the last time Russians got landgrabby.

Or do the Polish not live near Russia now?
 
2014-03-03 06:56:47 PM

SuperNinjaToad: Atomic Spunk: "Understandable" does not mean "Justifiable". It's a little like the Chris Rock comedy bit about OJ and Nicole Simpson. OJ killed her because he thought she was screwing another guy. Yeah, murder is wrong, and he shouldn't have done it, but I understand.

depends on who said it. if China, Cuba, NK etc says it you woudn't be defending them.


Yes. Context is everything.
 
2014-03-03 06:57:18 PM

Paris1127: ZAZ: You know who else had foreign policy positions that pissed off some of the world's major powers?

Olof Palme.

I'm still amazed that Swedish Police have still not definitively linked anyone to Palme's murder. Then again, I'm surprised that neighboring Australia could misplace its Prime Minister...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christer_Pettersson

The police knows who did it.
 
2014-03-03 06:57:59 PM
Dear Russia,

You can have Sweden if you leave Ukraine alone.  Yes, yes?

Sincerely,

The_Sponge
 
2014-03-03 06:58:25 PM

Paris1127: ZAZ: You know who else had foreign policy positions that pissed off some of the world's major powers?

Olof Palme.

I'm still amazed that Swedish Police have still not definitively linked anyone to Palme's murder. Then again, I'm surprised that neighboring Australia could misplace its Prime Minister...


Christer Pettersson is the most likely culprit. Occam's Razor.
 
2014-03-03 06:59:51 PM

The_Sponge: Dear Russia,

You can have Sweden if you leave Ukraine alone.  Yes, yes?

Sincerely,

The_Sponge


I recommend Vegas.
 
2014-03-03 07:00:53 PM

TheShavingofOccam123: Sweden--a Nordic melange of one dollop of Quisling, two measures of Kissinger.

/actually the guy said protecting ethnic Russians was understandable but NOT the way Russia was doing it


Spoken like a true tough American.  Why don't you volunteer to be the first of the Americans to protect Ukraine's honor?  Oh, and maybe you can get some tips from this German trooper about how to kick Russian butt.

cdn.theatlantic.com
 
2014-03-03 07:01:49 PM
Not quite sure what is really going on Ukraine. Clearly, the country is in dire straights with a kleptocratic regime. The country could have been on it's way to a complete collapse. So, it really depends what the Russians decide to do in the end. I think they could have handled this better from our perspective and interests, but NATO and EU encirclement is not something the Russians have been entirely supportive. Sure, it would be best if Russia got on board with NATO, and decided to integrate into the EU and Western security regime, but it certainly does not look like that is happening anytime soon with Russia's own kleptocratic oligarchy.
 
2014-03-03 07:03:34 PM

finnished: Wait, someone took a soundbite out of context, and people are jumping at it, without finding out the real context? Unpossible! Understandable!


/but not justified
 
2014-03-03 07:04:54 PM

finnished: Wait, someone took a soundbite out of context, and people are jumping at it, without finding out the real context? Unpossible!


Reuters headline writer should DIAF, as that headline completely twists what the Sweedish PM said, and the article doesn't correct it for three paragraphs.

And now it seems like a lot of people in this thread are jumping on the band wagon without referring to the actual one line quote. It isn't difficult people, his quote says that Russia's actions are wrong.
 
2014-03-03 07:08:08 PM
Maybe the PM meant it was "understandable" as a response for this provocation:

i.ytimg.com
 
2014-03-03 07:08:33 PM

maddermaxx: finnished: Wait, someone took a soundbite out of context, and people are jumping at it, without finding out the real context? Unpossible!

Reuters headline writer should DIAF, as that headline completely twists what the Sweedish PM said, and the article doesn't correct it for three paragraphs.

And now it seems like a lot of people in this thread are jumping on the band wagon without referring to the actual one line quote. It isn't difficult people, his quote says that Russia's actions are wrong.


It's funnier this way.
 
2014-03-03 07:09:26 PM
Well, it was a sitting duck. A road apple.
 
2014-03-03 07:09:33 PM
but, but they write good detective novels!
 
2014-03-03 07:09:50 PM
This just in: Swedish news sources don't publish stories according to American political leanings and motivations. Whatever you think you know about the Ukraine situation is not the same information they are getting.
 
2014-03-03 07:12:49 PM

Cerebral Ballsy: This just in: Swedish news sources don't publish stories according to American political leanings and motivations. Whatever you think you know about the Ukraine situation is not the same information they are getting.


This.

The extent to which the Cold War endures in American media and (IME) mindset is, to this not-American, startling.
 
2014-03-03 07:14:04 PM

MrBallou: Is it time to choose sides for the Big Game?


assets.nydailynews.com
 
2014-03-03 07:14:19 PM

Fissile: TheShavingofOccam123: Sweden--a Nordic melange of one dollop of Quisling, two measures of Kissinger.

/actually the guy said protecting ethnic Russians was understandable but NOT the way Russia was doing it

Spoken like a true tough American.  Why don't you volunteer to be the first of the Americans to protect Ukraine's honor?  Oh, and maybe you can get some tips from this German trooper about how to kick Russian butt.

[cdn.theatlantic.com image 850x549]


Well, apparently, the first step towards kicking a Russian's ass is finding a complete megalomaniac who is willing to kill millions of people in order to maintain political power.

I think the Soviets had a similar plan for kicking a German's ass.

I've always defended Petain and other French people who had fought in WWI and couldn't put France through another meatgrinder against Germany. The best thing they could have done for the Allies is what they did do (except maybe for that French fleet thingy).
 
2014-03-03 07:14:43 PM
Not very tactful to say so with people being shot or burned alive but he is correct in terms of geopolitics. Russia is going to get a warm water port if it kills us. The closest they have is in the Crimea, even though it is fairly easily blockaded at Istanbul,  the mouth of the Mediterranean, and the Red Sea Canal. So they are going to draw a line in the sand, so to speak. A cordon sanitaire (pardon my French) is the minimum for the professionally paranoid Russian elites. Even when the US knocks itself down with a Depression or partisan budget BS, it can't be counted on to stay down for the count. I am optimistic for a recovery, especially if Congress and the President unite to throw a lot of money into new military technology and jobs, jobs, jobs, jobs, jobs!

Sweden knows that the Baltic is just as easy to blockade between Denmark and Sweden. If anybody were to try this, Russia would not hesitate to make mince-meat pies of Swedes and Danes or even Germans. So it is easy for a Swede to see the Russian point of view. Sweden isn't all that hard to blockade either for the same reason--it has no great ports on the North Sea.

But if both Russia and China are going to get grabby at the expense of neighbours, the Great Game is back on.

Obama might want to make nice with Iran and Japan and Korea. At least try to keep it over there, Lord. Keep it over there.

The thing is, however, that both Russia and China are getting grabby in each other's potential spheres of influence--Central Asia, Siberia, Eastern Europe, the coastal waters of Asia. They are not natural friends, just temporary allies against the rest of us.

It does worry me. History repeats itself ad nauseam.

Hey, if Russia and China have to fight somebody, let it be over the fossil fuels of Central Asia and South Russia and the massive barely touched resources of Siberia.

What the Chinese need most is a really good hockey team for the next Winter Olympics. Where the Hell are they any way?

Leave us out of it you damned fools. Please? Pretty please with sugar on it.
 
2014-03-03 07:15:11 PM

Mantour: Maybe the PM meant it was "understandable" as a response for this provocation:

[i.ytimg.com image 480x360]


Was this Putin's Waterloo?..I was defeated you won the war
 
2014-03-03 07:15:45 PM
Believe it or not, Ukraine kind of brought this whole thing on itself.

One of the first things they did was remove Russian as an accepted language in Crimea. That is a clear sign of the new pro-European government sticking it to the Russian MAJORITY in the semi-autonomous region of Crimea. Remember, 60 years ago Crimea was part of Russia. Even today many Crimeans hold Russian citizenship.

Ukraine plain and simply screwed up. If they wanted to head-off this standoff they needed to NOT be a dick about it right from the start. Now they are still going to lose Crimea, but this time they will get an asskicking to go with it. I hate Putin as much as the next Real American, but giving Crimea back to Russia is the right thing to do.
 
2014-03-03 07:17:09 PM
We listen to European news sources and read Ukrainan and Russian news. It is complex. But Ukraine's own military does not appear to accept the far right as its rightful master.
 
2014-03-03 07:20:23 PM

Cerebral Ballsy: This just in: Swedish news sources don't publish stories according to American political leanings and motivations. Whatever you think you know about the Ukraine situation is not the same information they are getting.


All I know is that Abraham Lenincoln freed the Slavs.
 
2014-03-03 07:20:24 PM
Here's a good piece in the Globe and Mail to-day. Basically it's game set and match for Putin in the short term because he has no ethics and a 360,000-man army against Ukraine's 90,000-strong army. However, Ukraine now has a vested interest in embracing Western Europe, with that will come much-needed economic disruption that will take it away from the crony economies of the East.
 
2014-03-03 07:21:37 PM

brantgoose: Not very tactful to say so with people being shot or burned alive but he is correct in terms of geopolitics. Russia is going to get a warm water port if it kills us. The closest they have is in the Crimea, even though it is fairly easily blockaded at Istanbul,  the mouth of the Mediterranean, and the Red Sea Canal. So they are going to draw a line in the sand, so to speak. A cordon sanitaire (pardon my French) is the minimum for the professionally paranoid Russian elites. Even when the US knocks itself down with a Depression or partisan budget BS, it can't be counted on to stay down for the count. I am optimistic for a recovery, especially if Congress and the President unite to throw a lot of money into new military technology and jobs, jobs, jobs, jobs, jobs!

Sweden knows that the Baltic is just as easy to blockade between Denmark and Sweden. If anybody were to try this, Russia would not hesitate to make mince-meat pies of Swedes and Danes or even Germans. So it is easy for a Swede to see the Russian point of view. Sweden isn't all that hard to blockade either for the same reason--it has no great ports on the North Sea.

But if both Russia and China are going to get grabby at the expense of neighbours, the Great Game is back on.

Obama might want to make nice with Iran and Japan and Korea. At least try to keep it over there, Lord. Keep it over there.

The thing is, however, that both Russia and China are getting grabby in each other's potential spheres of influence--Central Asia, Siberia, Eastern Europe, the coastal waters of Asia. They are not natural friends, just temporary allies against the rest of us.

It does worry me. History repeats itself ad nauseam.

Hey, if Russia and China have to fight somebody, let it be over the fossil fuels of Central Asia and South Russia and the massive barely touched resources of Siberia.

What the Chinese need most is a really good hockey team for the next Winter Olympics. Where the Hell are they any way?

Leave us out of it yo ...


Historically speaking, as great powers, China and Russia are very different. Russia is the paranoid empire builder. China sees itself as the center with the surrounding countries desiring to be part of the Chinese sphere willingly.  Chinese has not historically been expansionist.
 
2014-03-03 07:23:18 PM
If the US didn't go around invading every country it wants over real or imagined "security" interests we might have a leg to stand on.

This is essentially Puerto Rico deciding they want to be commies. How do you think Washington would react if they wanted that ?

No love for Putin but he is acting exactly how the US or any country who can project power would. And the Russians have important military bases and people in country. No brainer. I think the fact that the Russians simply haven't already rolled them says a lot.
 
2014-03-03 07:23:59 PM

Harry_Seldon: Mantour: Maybe the PM meant it was "understandable" as a response for this provocation:

[i.ytimg.com image 480x360]

Was this Putin's Waterloo?..I was defeated you won the war


Mamma Mia, Putin is more of a Super Trouper than to be annoyed by ABBA.  The Ukraine is sending out an S.O.S and is Under Attack; When All is Said and Done, the situation is Slipping Through My Fingers.  After all, The Name of the Game is The Winner Takes All.
 
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