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(Sky.com)   China and Russia are "in agreement" about Ukraine. In other news. It might be time to clear out grandpa's old fallout bunker   (news.sky.com) divider line 66
    More: Followup, Ukraine, Russia, ferry slip, Foreign Secretary William Hague, Russian flag, territorial integrity, Donetsk, Viktor Yanukovych  
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7315 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Mar 2014 at 6:25 PM (51 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2014-03-03 06:48:05 PM  
5 votes:

jim32rr: [cdn.washingtonexaminer.biz image 550x550]


If you think for a second that this wouldn't be happening under a GOP president, you're either uneducated or disingenuous.

Nothing the US has done (or not done) in the past decade has had any effect on this whatsoever.
2014-03-03 06:32:50 PM  
5 votes:

Mark Ratner: So, what's the deal with Ukraine and Russia? Is something bad going to happen?


That depends. Are you in the Ukraine, in a former Soviet Bloc nation that is NOT part of NATO or the EU, or in a former Soviet Bloc nation in general? Then something bad is likely to happen. If you are anywhere else in the world, get ready for quite a bit of political bluster and a shortage on Russian vodka (and fossil fuels in Europe, if you're in the EU) but not a whole lot else.

Essentially Russia is going to turn Ukraine into an unofficial province/state of Russia again. As the Ukraine isn't a part of NATO or the EU, it's not likely to elicit the sort of response that saves Ukrainian independence. It might end up being time to get out the Cold War II: Nuclear Boogaloo gas masks and start fearing the Ruskie's again, until Russia collapses under its own corruption again. Wash, rinse, lather, repeat, tell our grandkids about the evil Ruskies and no matter how hot their women are, DO NOT STICK YOUR (BLANK) IN RUSSIAN.
2014-03-03 07:50:27 PM  
4 votes:
weknowmemes.com
2014-03-03 07:39:46 PM  
4 votes:

SunsetLament: gigantic pussy


You realize your retarded tough-guy posturing view of US foreign relations actually makes the USA weaker, don't you?

Other nations know they can count upon the USA's fear of looking cowardly or indecisive because of retards like you screaming for intervention.

People like you are the reason that the USA gets stuck in quagmires like Vietnam and Iraq, and the reason for anti-American Islamic terror which was birthed in the coup in Iran in the 50's.

Back then, the British manipulated the USA into intervening by playing up the communist threat.

And still here you are, being manipulated again.
2014-03-03 06:46:01 PM  
4 votes:
If Russia succeeds, China wins, as it will get a better idea on options concerning Taiwan, Spratly Islands, etc.

If Russia fails and weakens itself, China wins, as it will get a better idea on options concerning Taiwan, Spratly Islands, etc., and what not to do. And also a timetable on when and what to call Vladivostok since it's "traditional Chinese territories."

Win-win.
2014-03-03 08:32:20 PM  
3 votes:

Boojum2k: President Obama is trying, at least. He's a lot stronger on domestic and social issues, particularly now, but this is not his area of expertise.


I agree that the focus is domestic, just like Bush Sr was a master at diplomacy but had a tin ear for domestic concerns.

I'm just raging at GOP officials who go on air or print to blame the invasion on Obama for being weak, as if Putin's decisions (which most people did not expect) were not his own. The example is David Kramer, who was in charge of the Russia desk at the State Dept during GW Bush's terms, wrote a piece in the WashPost on Sunday and today was at the Atlantic Council in DC, grandstanding in front of the Moldovan PM about "US is weak! NATO must fight or the world will end!" (Of course, he has no answer to why Russia invaded Georgia in 2008.)

Yes, this is a test, but sniping in advance by McCain, Graham, Kramer, et al doesn't help when the US has to look strong. In our military contingency planning (much of what I do), we honestly don't care most times why the situation got bad, we just have to deal with it. So yes, this is a test for Obama, but playing politics really doesn't help.

And I'm especially sensitive about Crimea, since I was to help lead a NATO training mission there in May for the same officers now under threat by Russians. Of course that mission is now scrubbed, and we've been scrambling even to figure out if everyone is still on the grid (they're not). So when Sen Graham goes on TV to blame the invasion on Obama... I get really, really upset.

/rant off
2014-03-03 08:29:13 PM  
3 votes:
So many people ignorantly armchair politicking, while simultaneously ignorantly mocking politicians. It's....it's beautiful.
www.comicsreporter.com
2014-03-03 07:43:37 PM  
3 votes:

spamdog: SunsetLament: gigantic pussy

You realize your retarded tough-guy posturing view of US foreign relations actually makes the USA weaker, don't you?

Other nations know they can count upon the USA's fear of looking cowardly or indecisive because of retards like you screaming for intervention.

People like you are the reason that the USA gets stuck in quagmires like Vietnam and Iraq, and the reason for anti-American Islamic terror which was birthed in the coup in Iran in the 50's.

Back then, the British manipulated the USA into intervening by playing up the communist threat.

And still here you are, being manipulated again.


Ya know what really makes America look like a pussy?
filipspagnoli.files.wordpress.com
2014-03-03 06:44:30 PM  
3 votes:

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: toraque: Mentat: We'll see.  China has always been very leery about encouraging independence movements and they hung Putin out to dry during the Georgia crisis.  If the West pushes things, then we'll see how general the agreement is.

There's still a strong chance they'll support Russia, in a 'Why don't you go pick a fight with everybody, so we can quietly steal this bit of ocean over here while no one's looking' sort of way.

The Chinese HAVE TO support Russia on this.  Any hint that democratic overthrow of authority might lead to positive change must be stomped out.


They have to be careful here.  In the SC they're strictly non-interventionalist, and their statement there reflected this, IMO.  Yes, they condemned how the current Ukrainian leadership came to power, but they also cautioned that both sides needed to stay out of what is an internal Ukrainian conflict.

What you'll see from China is a lot of talk, but no action.  As long as Russia looks like it's just protecting its bases/transport routes, they'll let it slide.  The moment they enter the rest of Ukraine, they'll lose Chinese vocal support, further isolating Russia.
2014-03-03 06:44:29 PM  
3 votes:

germ78: So tell me how sanctions will work again?


Russia is a kleptocracy, not a dictatorship, so they are very vulnerable to being hit in the wallet. A return to the Cold War would be very bad for business within Russia, so at some point there will be pressure to de-escalate from within the business community because they are losing contracts and it is hurting their bottom line. Sanctions could help accelerate the process by brining the pain more quickly.
2014-03-03 06:41:29 PM  
3 votes:
It's 1979 all over again.
www.bizpacreview.com
2014-03-03 06:35:47 PM  
3 votes:
The us should kick them out of the G8 and take economic sanctions against them. I know the couch generals want their war but after awhile the money will get disrupted and the Russians will withdraw. Nobody needs to die over this. Putin shot himself in the foot on this one.
2014-03-03 06:28:42 PM  
3 votes:

Mentat: We'll see.  China has always been very leery about encouraging independence movements and they hung Putin out to dry during the Georgia crisis.  If the West pushes things, then we'll see how general the agreement is.


There's still a strong chance they'll support Russia, in a 'Why don't you go pick a fight with everybody, so we can quietly steal this bit of ocean over here while no one's looking' sort of way.
2014-03-03 09:09:26 PM  
2 votes:

Bloody William: Oh look, another thread of conservatives screaming "THIS IS ALL ABOUT US! OBAMA SUCKS!" while... not really paying any attention to the situation or the parties involved beyond seeing what Obama is doing and making sure they want the opposite of it.

Has Ukraine asked us for help? Has NATO asked us for support? Has anyone in Europe said, "The United States should really come in and solve things?" It's not in our borders, it's not in our backyard, and our allies aren't telling us to come in and do anything. What the fark do you want us to do, you hawkish retards?


The Ukraine envoy has very specifically asked for our help.  And we signed agreements saying we would help.  We've even signed agreements saying we would respect their borders, Russia signed it as well.  In exchange they gave up their 1,900+ nuclear weapons.

No country in the world will now give up nuclear weapons after this.  Putin is assuring nuclear proliferation.
2014-03-03 08:34:40 PM  
2 votes:

SunsetLament: He can do it because he (and everyone else in the world) knows nobody will lift a finger to stop him.


What precicely should we do?

And would you be willing to see your taxes go up to pay for it? Would you be willing to return to the days of the draft? Of rationing? Of turning the U.S. economy into a war economy and changing every aspect of your life to support a war?

How much are you, personally, willing to sacrifice? After Pearl Harbor, Americans were willing to sacrifice just about everything to see things set right. After 9/11 Americans were willing to go shopping, and if things happened to be set right, that was fine, as long as we didn't have to actually pay for it or put up with any meaningful sacrifices. Oh, and if we could have lower taxes while you're out spending trillions because, really, it's unfair to make us pay for those wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Quite frankly, one of Bush's biggest mistakes after 9/11 was telling Americans that they didn't have to sacrifice. The Iraq invasion was sold on the idea that the war would be cheap, fast, and most importantly, easy. The idea that it would be a decade long slog, difficult, and expensive was dismissed as unpatriotic. All we heard was how easy it was going to be, that no sacrifice would be needed.

When it comes to a big crisis like this, these days America only cares if it doesn't really cost us all that much. So again, I ask, how much are you willing to sacrifice before you decide that it's not that big a deal?
2014-03-03 08:10:20 PM  
2 votes:

toadist: Russia and China are on good terms.   Iran is getting back a bit of its strength because the west have caved and eased sanctions.    Nations are making some power moves.

But fear not because the US has Chucky Hagel?    John Kerry?   Barack Obama and Joe Biden ?

Dear God the US is in trouble.


America and China are also on good terms, and China's economy depends WAY too much on America for them to risk sanctions or a war. Russia is a crumbling, corrupt shiathole that couldn't even put on a good front for the Olympics. Iran's weapons programs are being dismantled under international supervision, and the sanctions will go right back to full strength if they don't comply. Furthermore, pro-West sentiment in Iran is continuing to grow, which is why the rulers of Iran were forced to replace their lunatic president with a relatively moderate one..

But nope, BOMB EVERYTHING! Kill all who don't behave EXACTLY as America thinks they should! We don't want America to look like a PUSSY!
2014-03-03 07:57:26 PM  
2 votes:

Ow! That was my feelings!: It's 1979 all over again.
[www.bizpacreview.com image 530x260]


Been saying all along that a repeat of the Carter Administration is a "best case scenario" for Obama.

/we may be headed for the ultimate worst case scenario
2014-03-03 07:43:52 PM  
2 votes:

T-Servo: assjuice: Honestly, I don't see what the big deal is either.

Ukraine is weak = Obama is weak = Palin should be president


Also, if Obama HAD actually sent troops in, or did anything more than a strongly worded letter, he'd be Worse than Hitler because he'd be supporting the MUSLIM Tartars against the Russians. Y'know, like exactly what happened in Libya, Egypt and Syria.

I don't see why Republicans are so upset about Putin, either. I mean, he's a business-friendly, gay-hatin', liberal hatin' thug...Why SHOULDN'T they like him?

/Trick question: Republicans LOVE Putin, which is why they're making him out to be such a badass, instead of the corrupt, thuggish leader of a washed-up, crumbling ex-superpower that couldn't even get its shiat together enough to spruce up the Olympic host city.
//And if he honestly thinks he can take and hold Ukraine, let alone survive sanctions or a farking world war, you can add 'A complete dumbass' to the list of Putin's traits.
2014-03-03 07:07:54 PM  
2 votes:
I think Obama should fart some rainbows and fix everything.  Weren't we all told the entire world loved him and that they'd be falling all over themselves to follow his lead once he took office?

Yes we can!
2014-03-03 06:40:40 PM  
2 votes:
I can see why China would have no objection with a large country "defending" a bit of turf that someone else is claiming as its sovereign territory.
2014-03-03 06:38:03 PM  
2 votes:
Not our problem.
2014-03-03 06:35:13 PM  
2 votes:
It could simply be Tibet-for-tat diplomacy.
2014-03-03 06:34:55 PM  
2 votes:

toraque: Mentat: We'll see.  China has always been very leery about encouraging independence movements and they hung Putin out to dry during the Georgia crisis.  If the West pushes things, then we'll see how general the agreement is.

There's still a strong chance they'll support Russia, in a 'Why don't you go pick a fight with everybody, so we can quietly steal this bit of ocean over here while no one's looking' sort of way.


The Chinese HAVE TO support Russia on this.  Any hint that democratic overthrow of authority might lead to positive change must be stomped out.
2014-03-03 06:33:11 PM  
2 votes:

toraque: Mentat: We'll see.  China has always been very leery about encouraging independence movements and they hung Putin out to dry during the Georgia crisis.  If the West pushes things, then we'll see how general the agreement is.

There's still a strong chance they'll support Russia, in a 'Why don't you go pick a fight with everybody, so we can quietly steal this bit of ocean over here while no one's looking' sort of way.


Yep. It wouldn't surprise me if China wanted that war. They'd be in a position to profit quite a bit both selling during the war and lending to the rebuilding effort once the dust settles.
2014-03-03 06:32:22 PM  
2 votes:
Based on the west's response (actions not words) they are "largely in agreement" also.
2014-03-03 11:46:06 PM  
1 votes:

Agatha Crispy: This is why America is so sad. Other countries have coalition governments


Because we don't have a Parliamentary system.
2014-03-03 10:16:32 PM  
1 votes:

Darth_Lukecash: You are now farkied as an unpatriotic troll.  One thing you can say about Democrats, is that when there is a crisis, they do line up behind whomever the President is, even if they disagree with the methods, they ultimately support the President.You can't say that about party line conservatives.


Calling dissenters unpatriotic: It's Okay When WE Do It!

/remember when dissent was the highest form of patriotism?
//or so Mochael Moore kept proclaiming
///it might actually depend on whether you're doing it right, or doing it wrong
2014-03-03 09:50:34 PM  
1 votes:
Putin is a power hungry madman. THIS IS OBAMA'S FAULT! He should have started WWIII years ago and he's a coward for not nuking the world.

/Conservatives in this thread
2014-03-03 09:31:52 PM  
1 votes:

Ow! That was my feelings!: Oh, what a whiny bunch of crap.

This is what I would do as POTUS. Total Russian energy embargo! Dragging every ally, especially and importantly must include 100% of the Euros! Even if it means higher gasoline prices in the US, help the Euros with their natural gas needs (summers coming anyway...). Full military support for NATO border allies, especially the Polish. And squeeze the Russians on the banking front. Economic sanctions are a real weapon that could be used on the Russians.

//And if worse comes to worse, full support for the Ukrainian partisans.


You're adorable. Ado-dor-a-ble

Putin's empire is propped up by exports.  Less than 2% of those exports involve the US.  Most of their exports are petrochemicals.  Most of those are purchased by Europe.

If Europe isn't on board with an energy embargo, it does not happen.  In case you weren't aware, the US is now largely energy independent.  That's why this is a much tougher decision for Europe than for us.  It is their backyard, Europe should be driving this train, they are not.

Once again, it is up to the Untied States to save Europe from themselves.  It's a crappy job, but someone has to do it.

Right now, German, France, Italy, and Spain are not at all on board with any sort of real sanctions.  The UK is not on board with any sanctions that impact their financial sector.  We cannot force Europe to enact sanctions.   http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/03/ukraine-crisis-us-europe - putin-crimeaWhy do you think Obama's state department rep said "fark the EU"?

Obama wants sanctions, heavy sanctions, he'd love an energy embargo.  Our allies don't want it.   Obama is pushing, and he'll push harder.  If Putin moves into eastern Ukraine, it will make Obama's work easier.

What is making this less likely?  The Republican leadership.

If Democratic politicians had criticized Reagan as he faced down the bear, they'd be declared traitors.  Obama is moving to debilitate the Russian economy.  Together, the US and the EU could completely fark up Russia.  Without firing a shot, we could destroy their economy.  But Europe has to be on board.  By attacking him from the rear, Republicans are empowering Putin, and making it all the more likely the Europeans will ignore the US.

You want to blame someone for a lack of action?  Look no further than John McCain, John Boehner, and the rest of the Republican leadership.  They're attacking Obama, because it's become a reflex.  They need to sit their asses down and put their country first.
2014-03-03 09:18:58 PM  
1 votes:

Bloody William: Greywar: The Ukraine envoy has very specifically asked for our help.

Us, or the UN? Because as far as I can tell, the Ukraine's UN envoy asked for help at a security council meeting. That's a far cry from us as one country moving unilaterally.


Both Russia and China have veto power in the U.N. As noted above, such legal dickery might serve for the moment, at the cost of ending every future chance of nonproliferation treaties.
2014-03-03 09:15:58 PM  
1 votes:

T-Servo: Boojum2k: President Obama is trying, at least. He's a lot stronger on domestic and social issues, particularly now, but this is not his area of expertise.

I agree that the focus is domestic, just like Bush Sr was a master at diplomacy but had a tin ear for domestic concerns.

I'm just raging at GOP officials who go on air or print to blame the invasion on Obama for being weak, as if Putin's decisions (which most people did not expect) were not his own. The example is David Kramer, who was in charge of the Russia desk at the State Dept during GW Bush's terms, wrote a piece in the WashPost on Sunday and today was at the Atlantic Council in DC, grandstanding in front of the Moldovan PM about "US is weak! NATO must fight or the world will end!" (Of course, he has no answer to why Russia invaded Georgia in 2008.)

Yes, this is a test, but sniping in advance by McCain, Graham, Kramer, et al doesn't help when the US has to look strong. In our military contingency planning (much of what I do), we honestly don't care most times why the situation got bad, we just have to deal with it. So yes, this is a test for Obama, but playing politics really doesn't help.

And I'm especially sensitive about Crimea, since I was to help lead a NATO training mission there in May for the same officers now under threat by Russians. Of course that mission is now scrubbed, and we've been scrambling even to figure out if everyone is still on the grid (they're not). So when Sen Graham goes on TV to blame the invasion on Obama... I get really, really upset.

/rant off


Hell, if anything their partisan sniping is what really makes us look weak to the world. If we are so at each other's throat that we can't even pass a bill helping our military veterans, then we won't be able to put up a united front to oppose them. It just makes us look like our own worst enemy.
2014-03-03 09:12:10 PM  
1 votes:

Mentat: LordJiro: I don't see why Republicans are so upset about Putin, either. I mean, he's a business-friendly, gay-hatin', liberal hatin' thug...Why SHOULDN'T they like him?

Check out Rudy Guilliani.  Not only is he insulting Obama, he's praising Putin's leadership style, and doing it with a smile on his face.


And that's why Obama deserves that Nobel peace prize he got.  He's gotten hard-line conservative Republicans to praise Russky leadership at the expense of a sitting American president.

Truly, the man has worked a miracle.
2014-03-03 09:10:04 PM  
1 votes:

Tatterdemalian: soporific: What precicely should we do?

Oh, there's nothing we can do that The One would let us do. He's in power, not the neocon warmongers.

What we should have done? Supported the Iranian Green Revolution. Failing that, we should have refused to support the Muslim Brotherhood's Arab Spring.

Since we already did both those things, it's a bit too late to worry any more. We're already off the cliff, and the only thing left is for us neocons to say "I told you so" until we hit rock bottom.

/but keep on blaming the Republicans
//that's the only thing you can do
///even though it will make picking up the pieces more difficult, what with all your accusing the people who know which pieces really matter of causing the crash all along


I do blame the Republicans because they are the ones who completely screwed up our foriegn policy last decade. They are the ones who ran up huge bills and did a lot of damage to our military and military readiness. They are the ones who pissed away a lot of international goodwill, and they are the ones who thought going into Afghanistan with a minimal force was a good idea and going into Iraq at all was a good idea.

Now, has Obama been too naive about foriegn policy? It's possible. he's certainly been too naive about Republican opposition these past 6 years, letting them run the table while he expected everyoen to behave like adults. So I can see that he also expected world leaders to be reasonable and not insane, to his detriment. We'll have to wait and see how it pans out, and I'm taking everything the Republicans say with an entire saltshaker. Chances are they're going to be proven wrong in the next few weeks, much like reality proves them wrong time and time again. This doesn't mean everything Obama's done or doing is correct, but I'm still willing to give him a 'wait and see.'

This is why I think Hillary would be a strong President. She's got the chops to handle these kinds of situations, but she's also not insane and wanting to start another war like most everyone in the Republican party.
2014-03-03 09:01:46 PM  
1 votes:

Ow! That was my feelings!: Bloody William: Oh look, another thread of conservatives screaming "THIS IS ALL ABOUT US! OBAMA SUCKS!" while... not really paying any attention to the situation or the parties involved beyond seeing what Obama is doing and making sure they want the opposite of it.

Has Ukraine asked us for help? Has NATO asked us for support? Has anyone in Europe said, "The United States should really come in and solve things?" It's not in our borders, it's not in our backyard, and our allies aren't telling us to come in and do anything. What the fark do you want us to do, you hawkish retards?

Shut up, play ball, and help push Putin over a cliff?


Okay. What then? What would be the direct ramifications for us as a result of such a power play? What state would Russia or Ukraine be after we made such a move?

Simply saying "Putin bad, get Putin out" ignores everything that would happen after. The cost of us swinging economic muscle when our interests are not currently directly threatened. The line of kleptocrats looking to replace Putin and shake his strong-arm regime into an even more unstable mess. The question of whether whoever comes after Putin would be a Russian hard-liner still looking to push Ukraine.

This isn't about us. This isn't our party. Screaming that we must take action is ridiculous. This isn't in our backyard, we haven't been asked for help, we have no reason to intervene yet. We need to stand back and consider our options, and keep an eye out for options that have the most benefits and fewest drawbacks. Right now, all of our options have a whole farking lot of drawbacks and not much impetus to rush to any of them.
2014-03-03 08:50:13 PM  
1 votes:
Oh look, another thread of conservatives screaming "THIS IS ALL ABOUT US! OBAMA SUCKS!" while... not really paying any attention to the situation or the parties involved beyond seeing what Obama is doing and making sure they want the opposite of it.

Has Ukraine asked us for help? Has NATO asked us for support? Has anyone in Europe said, "The United States should really come in and solve things?" It's not in our borders, it's not in our backyard, and our allies aren't telling us to come in and do anything. What the fark do you want us to do, you hawkish retards?
2014-03-03 08:42:38 PM  
1 votes:

soporific: SunsetLament: He can do it because he (and everyone else in the world) knows nobody will lift a finger to stop him.

What precicely should we do?

And would you be willing to see your taxes go up to pay for it? Would you be willing to return to the days of the draft? Of rationing? Of turning the U.S. economy into a war economy and changing every aspect of your life to support a war?

How much are you, personally, willing to sacrifice? After Pearl Harbor, Americans were willing to sacrifice just about everything to see things set right. After 9/11 Americans were willing to go shopping, and if things happened to be set right, that was fine, as long as we didn't have to actually pay for it or put up with any meaningful sacrifices. Oh, and if we could have lower taxes while you're out spending trillions because, really, it's unfair to make us pay for those wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Quite frankly, one of Bush's biggest mistakes after 9/11 was telling Americans that they didn't have to sacrifice. The Iraq invasion was sold on the idea that the war would be cheap, fast, and most importantly, easy. The idea that it would be a decade long slog, difficult, and expensive was dismissed as unpatriotic. All we heard was how easy it was going to be, that no sacrifice would be needed.

When it comes to a big crisis like this, these days America only cares if it doesn't really cost us all that much. So again, I ask, how much are you willing to sacrifice before you decide that it's not that big a deal?


The terms of winning aren't reasonable any longer. There is no real point to conventional warfare anymore outside acting as world police or to achieve tactical objectives. You want to win the game? Sit back and watch everyone else blow themselves up and watch their economy tank. Walk behind the ramshackle nations and revitalize them. It is a war of attrition and a marathon, not a sprint - long gone are those days.
2014-03-03 08:12:06 PM  
1 votes:
I find it funny that so many of the conservative analyses of the trouble we're now in, focus on why Obama is at fault and don't really say anything about Putin being involved.

Also note that the US is pushing for strong measures like trade sanctions (Germany is against that ) or cutting Russia out of the international banking system (UK is against that), but we need the whole farking EU to agree to those stronger measures. Those US diplomats the other week who said 'Fark the EU!' were just ahead of the game, I guess.

/but of course Bush would've gotten their support, everyone in Europe loved GW
2014-03-03 08:10:34 PM  
1 votes:

Babwa Wawa: LordJiro: And if he honestly thinks he can take and hold Ukraine, let alone survive sanctions or a farking world war, you can add 'A complete dumbass' to the list of Putin's traits.

Maybe not the whole of Ukraine, but he can sure foment a civil war.  At worst he'd split the country with a client state in Crimea.  At best he'd keep the whole damned thing as a client state.  He's banking on the fact that nobody outside of Russia and the Ukraine will do anything meaningful, and he's right.  

Nobody's going to get into a shooting war over Ukraine except the Ukrainians.  And nobody outside of the Ukraine is going to do anything but arm the Ukrainians.


Ding. Ding. Ding.

He can do it because he (and everyone else in the world) knows nobody will lift a finger to stop him.
2014-03-03 08:09:40 PM  
1 votes:
I'm a lib. Sanction the fark out of them. I'd love to see peace bought, and humanity forced to evolve beyond petty violence because it's bad for business.

Farking Star Trek got it wrong. We're more Ferengi than Federation.

/hopeful that changes for the better in the future, but would be satisfied with it working in the present
2014-03-03 08:02:32 PM  
1 votes:
As smart as he is, I don't think Obama or his team really have the international game down. We involved ourselves in Libya, with far less reason than even for Iraq or especially Afghanistan, against someone who had already surrendered his major military programs to us, and now there's no reliability in surrendering to the U.S. as an agreement. He stood up for protecting Syrian civilians from chemical weapons, then when Syria (or somebody) apparently deployed them, we dicked around until Putin came in and settled the issue to some extent. Now we have Ukraine's quasi-revolution leading to Russia getting militarily involved, an agreement with Ukraine that goes bad for us whether we honor it or lawyer our way out of it, and China flexing its muscles and looking hungrily at Japanese territory for its own ends.

Applying force over Ukraine could lead to a major war. Not applying force could lead to wider conflicts, and a major war.

I'll just have to trust that President Obama makes his decisions for the right reasons, since any one of them could go south in a bad way. But we don't have the credibility to pull off denunciations, sanctions, or ultimatums now.
2014-03-03 08:00:51 PM  
1 votes:
Russia and China are on good terms.   Iran is getting back a bit of its strength because the west have caved and eased sanctions.    Nations are making some power moves.

But fear not because the US has Chucky Hagel?    John Kerry?   Barack Obama and Joe Biden ?

Dear God the US is in trouble.
2014-03-03 07:58:31 PM  
1 votes:

Animatronik: PC LOAD LETTER: jim32rr: [cdn.washingtonexaminer.biz image 550x550]

What would you do? Please cite why you think your plan would work. Use historical examples.

I think Obama should declare itty bitty economic sanctions, sort of like the itty bitty airstrike they were planning against Syria.


Large sanctions and removing Russia from the G8 is in the works. What else? What would you do differently? So far, you agree with him.
2014-03-03 07:57:21 PM  
1 votes:

gdb.rferl.org


"Hello, Barry?  Is it too late to get Hillary back?"

2014-03-03 07:50:24 PM  
1 votes:

Serious Post on Serious Thread: SunsetLament: I'll admit, liberals are the most fun right at the moment when they realize the obvious results of their ideology flourishing is that everything goes to shiat.  It's a shame that everything has to actually go to shiat for them to realize it.  It's also a shame that they have to pretend they were not responsible in any way when it happens, too.

Thanks liberals - you're both hilarious and farking terrible.

K. As a self admitted Libby lib mcLibtardy Libby. WTF R U TALKING ABOUT?????

Sure, war bad. Got that. But what does the US motherfarking A have to do with this? Giving or receiving? Why the fark do I care more or less about this than th multitudes of crap going on all over the world? Except we (the US motherfarking A) seems to have less to do with this than most other probs we stick our unneeded nose into?????

Really!
WHY DO I CARE! PLEASE. TELL ME.


Poland. Estonia. Lithuania. Latvia. Sudetenland.
2014-03-03 07:48:03 PM  
1 votes:

Greywar: 1. If china really is onboard, then I suggest we lease a couple islands from Japan for a US military base


We already do - we've had a couple of military installations there since WW2.

2. We immediately declare the no nuke provisions of Ukraine void as no one is honoring them, and sell them a dozen surplus nuclear missiles and launching systems....for $1 each.  Our way of saying "sorry that agreement about removing your nuclear weapons to protect your borders isnt working out"

You can't give nukes to a country that's about to be invaded by the Russians.  But we can actually stop dicking around and fill Poland and the Czech Republic full of missile defense systems ... and park a fleet in the Black Sea.
2014-03-03 07:46:31 PM  
1 votes:
Seriously people even if Obama ordered troops to the Ukraine its very likely we would not yet have boots on the ground, it takes time to organize and set a line of supply and to build a coalition of nations to support the effort.

Seriously the only US Military assets that might have been able to respond by now is the US sixth fleet based in Naples Italy.

Any troops in Europe would need time to supply and permission would be needed to move through allied nations before they could roll for Ukraine.

A small force could be sent by air but not enough to do much of anything beside put Moscow on notice, provided once again we got okay to route through allied air space.
2014-03-03 07:37:58 PM  
1 votes:

assjuice: Honestly, I don't see what the big deal is either.


Ukraine is weak = Obama is weak = Palin should be president

Honestly, when people spoke out against a certain past administration's policies, they were terrorists. Now it's their civic duty not only to make the president seem like he doesn't have support, they want to make sure to undercut his position and make any strong action impossible vis-a-vis Germany and other wavering partners.

/David Kramer in particular needs to shut his blowhole
2014-03-03 07:34:44 PM  
1 votes:
I'll admit, liberals are the most fun right at the moment when they realize the obvious results of their ideology flourishing is that everything goes to shiat.  It's a shame that everything has to actually go to shiat for them to realize it.  It's also a shame that they have to pretend they were not responsible in any way when it happens, too.

Thanks liberals - you're both hilarious and farking terrible.
2014-03-03 07:31:05 PM  
1 votes:

TheOther: SunsetLament: Mrtraveler01: SunsetLament: I think Obama should fart some rainbows and fix everything.  Weren't we all told the entire world loved him and that they'd be falling all over themselves to follow his lead once he took office?

Yes we can!

So what should we have done instead?

Not signal to the world that the United States isn't going to lift a finger to defend any of our allies because it's too important to follow the lead of the idiot American hippies that helped put him in office.

Wait...when did the goddam Ukranians become our allies?!??


1994
2014-03-03 07:29:35 PM  
1 votes:

Mrtraveler01: SunsetLament: Mrtraveler01: SunsetLament: I think Obama should fart some rainbows and fix everything.  Weren't we all told the entire world loved him and that they'd be falling all over themselves to follow his lead once he took office?

Yes we can!

So what should we have done instead?

Not signal to the world that the United States isn't going to lift a finger to defend any of our allies because it's too important to follow the lead of the idiot American hippies that helped put him in office.

Once again, offering no solution. Typical conservative. ;)

I ask again, what should have been the solution.


Oh I have a solution: Don't posture to the world that your ideology's foundation is "being a gigantic pussy because you might break a nail if you're forced to do what's right."
2014-03-03 07:24:20 PM  
1 votes:

SunsetLament: Mrtraveler01: SunsetLament: I think Obama should fart some rainbows and fix everything.  Weren't we all told the entire world loved him and that they'd be falling all over themselves to follow his lead once he took office?

Yes we can!

So what should we have done instead?

Not signal to the world that the United States isn't going to lift a finger to defend any of our allies because it's too important to follow the lead of the idiot American hippies that helped put him in office.


Once again, offering no solution. Typical conservative. ;)

I ask again, what should have been the solution.
2014-03-03 07:09:17 PM  
1 votes:
Erin Burnett is looking very sexy tonight.
2014-03-03 07:09:04 PM  
1 votes:
About time the West give up on the two decade experiment with Russia. Let them go hand out with what few friends they have left. Belarus, the Central Asian dictatorships, Iran, Syria, and China.
2014-03-03 06:49:27 PM  
1 votes:
recessappointment.com
2014-03-03 06:49:03 PM  
1 votes:

Practical_Draconian: If Russia succeeds, China wins, as it will get a better idea on options concerning Taiwan, Spratly Islands, etc.

If Russia fails and weakens itself, China wins, as it will get a better idea on options concerning Taiwan, Spratly Islands, etc., and what not to do. And also a timetable on when and what to call Vladivostok since it's "traditional Chinese territories."

Win-win.


mkjon.es
2014-03-03 06:47:36 PM  
1 votes:
Just heard a piece on NPR about how the newly-installed Crimean minister is some two-bit thug and a member of the "Russian Unity Party".

Popcorn's almost ready....
2014-03-03 06:45:41 PM  
1 votes:

Nike121: So, what is going to happen with our spaceflights/ folks on the space staion?

Hitching a ride with the Russians wasn't the best idea...


The magic marketplace will figure that one out. In the meantime, breath shallow up there, folks!
2014-03-03 06:44:44 PM  
1 votes:

zzrhardy: Not our problem.



Ukraine is a puppy on the freeway right now.

Best to keep on driving.
2014-03-03 06:43:11 PM  
1 votes:

germ78: So tell me how sanctions will work again?


They have to do something, they are fresh out of strongly worded letters.
2014-03-03 06:41:45 PM  
1 votes:
So, what is going to happen with our spaceflights/ folks on the space staion?

Hitching a ride with the Russians wasn't the best idea...
2014-03-03 06:35:30 PM  
1 votes:
i1.ytimg.com
2014-03-03 06:33:58 PM  
1 votes:

The fifth malformed ring is actually the remains of Ukraine after Russia has stomped them to mush.


static6.businessinsider.com

2014-03-03 06:29:35 PM  
1 votes:
Russia has said China is largely "in agreement" over Ukraine, after other world powers condemned Moscow for sending troops into the country.

I'm not saying it isn;t true but let's wait to hear what the Chinese actually have to say rather than through some Russian dude in Crimea.
until China starts sending tanks into Crimea or Ukraine why does it really matter? China's influence is almost nil and they have very little interest there whether it's for or against Putin's lil adventure.
2014-03-03 05:41:58 PM  
1 votes:
It sounds like Ukraine is one big FlusterCluck.
2014-03-03 05:30:58 PM  
1 votes:
We'll see.  China has always been very leery about encouraging independence movements and they hung Putin out to dry during the Georgia crisis.  If the West pushes things, then we'll see how general the agreement is.
2014-03-03 05:05:33 PM  
1 votes:
Six hundred rode into the valley of death.
Cannons to the left of them
Cannons to the right
Into the valley of death rode the six hundred
 
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