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(Sky.com)   China and Russia are "in agreement" about Ukraine. In other news. It might be time to clear out grandpa's old fallout bunker   (news.sky.com ) divider line
    More: Followup, Ukraine, Russia, ferry slip, Foreign Secretary William Hague, Russian flag, territorial integrity, Donetsk, Viktor Yanukovych  
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7343 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Mar 2014 at 6:25 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-03 09:50:38 PM  

freddie freeloader: Bloody William: Oh look, another thread of conservatives screaming "THIS IS ALL ABOUT US! OBAMA SUCKS!" while... not really paying any attention to the situation or the parties involved beyond seeing what Obama is doing and making sure they want the opposite of it.

Has Ukraine asked us for help? Has NATO asked us for support? Has anyone in Europe said, "The United States should really come in and solve things?" It's not in our borders, it's not in our backyard, and our allies aren't telling us to come in and do anything. What the fark do you want us to do, you hawkish retards?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/pro-russian-gunmen-tighten -c ontrol-over-crimean-peninsula/article17156341/


The fun part about this is that the US and the UK made no such agreement.
 
2014-03-03 09:52:03 PM  
Mm, scratch that. Seems that's Russian AAA and it's from last year.

I suck.
 
2014-03-03 09:53:35 PM  
Rather than basing this whole thread on what Russia said China said, why dont we look at the actual statement issued by China?

"But China's foreign ministry spokesman, Qin Gang, gave a somewhat different take on China's position during the past two days: "It is China's longstanding position not to interfere in others' internal affairs. We respect the independence, sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine," he said, according to a statement posted on the Chinese ministry's website on Sunday."
 
2014-03-03 09:54:57 PM  

RandomRandom: You want to blame someone for a lack of action?  Look no further than John McCain, John Boehner, and the rest of the Republican leadership.  They're attacking Obama, because it's become a reflex.  They need to sit their asses down and put their country first.


Why should they start now? They haven't been about their country for quite some time, I doubt most of them even vaguely recall the last time it actually was.
 
2014-03-03 09:55:26 PM  

RexTalionis: Rather than basing this whole thread on what Russia said China said, why dont we look at the actual statement issued by China?

"But China's foreign ministry spokesman, Qin Gang, gave a somewhat different take on China's position during the past two days: "It is China's longstanding position not to interfere in others' internal affairs. We respect the independence, sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine," he said, according to a statement posted on the Chinese ministry's website on Sunday."


Yeah, I've been having a hard time squaring this article with what the Chinese ambassador said at the UN today.  Loosely translated, he told Russia to GTFO.
 
2014-03-03 09:57:15 PM  

SunsetLament: I'll admit, liberals are the most fun right at the moment when they realize the obvious results of their ideology flourishing is that everything goes to shiat.  It's a shame that everything has to actually go to shiat for them to realize it.  It's also a shame that they have to pretend they were not responsible in any way when it happens, too.

Thanks liberals - you're both hilarious and farking terrible.


As oppose to conservatives, who manage to get us into useless wars and ungodly deficits due to those wars and then go into denial that they did anything wrong.

I'm not sure that it mattered who was President, Putin would have done this anyways..  W. Bush had looked into Putins eyes
"I looked the man in the eye. I found him to be very straight forward and trustworthy and we had a very good dialogue."
"I was able to get a sense of his soul."

Diplomacy needs to be done first...then action if needed be.  There are plus and balances to military action at this point.

You are now farkied as an unpatriotic troll.  One thing you can say about Democrats, is that when there is a crisis, they do line up behind whomever the President is, even if they disagree with the methods, they ultimately support the President.

You can't say that about party line conservatives.
 
2014-03-03 10:01:02 PM  

SunsetLament: Mrtraveler01: SunsetLament: I think Obama should fart some rainbows and fix everything.  Weren't we all told the entire world loved him and that they'd be falling all over themselves to follow his lead once he took office?

Yes we can!

So what should we have done instead?

Not signal to the world that the United States isn't going to lift a finger to defend any of our allies because it's too important to follow the lead of the idiot American hippies that helped put him in office.


So "hippie" just means "anyone who disagrees with me" to you, it seems.  I suppose that's about the intellectual level you're capable of.

It's interesting how often stupid people call folks they disagree with "idiots."
 
2014-03-03 10:04:12 PM  

Frank N Stein: SunsetLament: Mrtraveler01: SunsetLament: I think Obama should fart some rainbows and fix everything.  Weren't we all told the entire world loved him and that they'd be falling all over themselves to follow his lead once he took office?

Yes we can!

So what should we have done instead?

Not signal to the world that the United States isn't going to lift a finger to defend any of our allies because it's too important to follow the lead of the idiot American hippies that helped put him in office.

what's funny is that the original hippies were apart of the peace movement; which was almost entirely funded by the KGB.


Not really, no.  But it's nice that you come right out with the most easily-disproven claims.  It does make things easier.
 
2014-03-03 10:11:44 PM  

Bloody William: Oh look, another thread of conservatives screaming "THIS IS ALL ABOUT US! OBAMA SUCKS!" while... not really paying any attention to the situation or the parties involved beyond seeing what Obama is doing and making sure they want the opposite of it.

Has Ukraine asked us for help? Has NATO asked us for support? Has anyone in Europe said, "The United States should really come in and solve things?" It's not in our borders, it's not in our backyard, and our allies aren't telling us to come in and do anything. What the fark do you want us to do, you hawkish retards?


Which is exactly what China is doing yet we're actually condeming them for staying neutral. China has almost zero sphere of influence and interest in freakin Crimea or Black Sea or even Ukraine as a whole.

As a member of the Security Council they HAD to say something and that something was bascially saying keep us out but don't go all WWIII over it yet if you look at 99% of the post here the anti China rhetoric is as par with anyhting China related. I have never seen a more anti Chinese forum than on fark actually.
I think cop hating and chinese hating are the only two things libs and conservatives here actually agree on.
 
2014-03-03 10:12:28 PM  
Why are people even bothering with the right-wing whackjobs on this? They're completely immaterial, they have no political power and they can't influence anything. All they can do is voice their poutrage and pretend that some how magically things would be better if America was more like them - which obviously, hell even demonstrably this isn't true. They're failures and will happily continue down their path of irrelevance through this century.

As for this current issue - it's developing. So far the government hasn't made any missteps in their foreign policy and everything has worked out pretty well for us. It's likely by the time summer rolls around this will be resolved and people will go back to screaming about "but but Benghazi!" or some other made up outrage, just like they did after Syria, after Lebanon, after Egypt, well you get the picture.

If people were more informed about the situation in Crimea, they would understand that the local government there is a separatist government. The people there have a right to self determination, this is a very American principle and one that we should support throughout the world. The Russians, so far, have not impeded on this, if anything they may actually be helping the locals by providing them with the opportunity to go to a referendum about becoming a separate territory (separate from both Ukraine and Russia), which appears to be the popular feeling in the region.

Anyway, I believe they are holding elections in may over this subject. That's fine. It's likely the outcome will be that Crimea wants autonomy. That's also fine. I don't think we have the right, or even the moral obligation to prevent people from seeking to form an autonomous government through democracy. It actually stands in violation of the very principles the United States was founded on.
 
2014-03-03 10:14:35 PM  

ariseatex: Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: toraque: Mentat: We'll see.  China has always been very leery about encouraging independence movements and they hung Putin out to dry during the Georgia crisis.  If the West pushes things, then we'll see how general the agreement is.

There's still a strong chance they'll support Russia, in a 'Why don't you go pick a fight with everybody, so we can quietly steal this bit of ocean over here while no one's looking' sort of way.

The Chinese HAVE TO support Russia on this.  Any hint that democratic overthrow of authority might lead to positive change must be stomped out.

They have to be careful here.  In the SC they're strictly non-interventionalist, and their statement there reflected this, IMO.  Yes, they condemned how the current Ukrainian leadership came to power, but they also cautioned that both sides needed to stay out of what is an internal Ukrainian conflict.

What you'll see from China is a lot of talk, but no action.  As long as Russia looks like it's just protecting its bases/transport routes, they'll let it slide.  The moment they enter the rest of Ukraine, they'll lose Chinese vocal support, further isolating Russia.


Probably correct.  Although China may also object if Russia attempts to dismember Ukraine.  The Chinese are VERY sensitive to people supporting break-away provinces.
 
2014-03-03 10:16:32 PM  

Darth_Lukecash: You are now farkied as an unpatriotic troll.  One thing you can say about Democrats, is that when there is a crisis, they do line up behind whomever the President is, even if they disagree with the methods, they ultimately support the President.You can't say that about party line conservatives.


Calling dissenters unpatriotic: It's Okay When WE Do It!

/remember when dissent was the highest form of patriotism?
//or so Mochael Moore kept proclaiming
///it might actually depend on whether you're doing it right, or doing it wrong
 
2014-03-03 10:22:18 PM  

TwistedFark: Why are people even bothering with the right-wing whackjobs on this?


Because they need someone to blame for their own imperfection, since it can't be the natural end result of all left-wing policies based on fantasy.
 
2014-03-03 10:22:58 PM  
A little history on why Russia may not listin to the West.

Intervention by the Great Powers[edit]
Under pressure from the British, Russia accepted the truce offered by the Ottoman Empire on January 31, 1878, but continued to move towards Constantinople.
The British sent a fleet of battleships to intimidate Russia from entering the city, and Russian forces stopped at San Stefano. Eventually Russia entered into a settlement under the Treaty of San Stefano on March 3, by which the Ottoman Empire would recognize the independence of Romania, Serbia, Montenegro, and the autonomy of Bulgaria.
Alarmed by the extension of Russian power into the Balkans, the Great Powers later forced modifications of the treaty in the Congress of Berlin. The main change here was that Bulgaria would be split, according to earlier agreements among the Great Powers that precluded the creation of a large new Slavic state: the northern and eastern parts to become principalities as before (Principality of Bulgaria and Eastern Rumelia), though with different governors; and the Macedonian region, originally part of Bulgaria under San Stefano, would return to direct Ottoman administration.[43] At the Congress of Berlin, Bismarck said that he was fighting for peace in Europe. However he was not aware that his decision to split Bulgaria would start a war in the Balkans 34 years later and would eventually lead to World War I.[citation needed]


From here: Russo-Turkish War (1877-78)

Up until then Russia wanted to be allies with Germany but they felt sold out so made an alliance with France At the time England wasn't doing mutual defense pacts but Germany's proxy fight in the Boar wars and the build up of the German navy forced England into an alliance with France. Russia has always been worried about encirclement.

/It's a dangerous game the leaders are playing.
 
2014-03-03 10:24:42 PM  

germ78: So tell me how sanctions will work again?


Yeah, you're right, it'd be a MUCH better idea to fly off the handle and attack a major, nuclear superpower.
 
2014-03-03 10:28:19 PM  

XveryYpettyZ: ariseatex: Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: toraque: Mentat: We'll see.  China has always been very leery about encouraging independence movements and they hung Putin out to dry during the Georgia crisis.  If the West pushes things, then we'll see how general the agreement is.

There's still a strong chance they'll support Russia, in a 'Why don't you go pick a fight with everybody, so we can quietly steal this bit of ocean over here while no one's looking' sort of way.

The Chinese HAVE TO support Russia on this.  Any hint that democratic overthrow of authority might lead to positive change must be stomped out.

They have to be careful here.  In the SC they're strictly non-interventionalist, and their statement there reflected this, IMO.  Yes, they condemned how the current Ukrainian leadership came to power, but they also cautioned that both sides needed to stay out of what is an internal Ukrainian conflict.

What you'll see from China is a lot of talk, but no action.  As long as Russia looks like it's just protecting its bases/transport routes, they'll let it slide.  The moment they enter the rest of Ukraine, they'll lose Chinese vocal support, further isolating Russia.

Probably correct.  Although China may also object if Russia attempts to dismember Ukraine.  The Chinese are VERY sensitive to people supporting break-away provinces.


Well, I'm guessing China is looking at this from their POV. Tibet? Taiwan? Those ring a bell? Russian and Chinese border conflict happened in Mongolia where, meh , hard to tell there.
 
2014-03-03 10:36:43 PM  

tinfoil-hat maggie: A little history on why Russia may not listin to the West.

Intervention by the Great Powers[edit]
Under pressure from the British, Russia accepted the truce offered by the Ottoman Empire on January 31, 1878, but continued to move towards Constantinople.
The British sent a fleet of battleships to intimidate Russia from entering the city, and Russian forces stopped at San Stefano. Eventually Russia entered into a settlement under the Treaty of San Stefano on March 3, by which the Ottoman Empire would recognize the independence of Romania, Serbia, Montenegro, and the autonomy of Bulgaria.
Alarmed by the extension of Russian power into the Balkans, the Great Powers later forced modifications of the treaty in the Congress of Berlin. The main change here was that Bulgaria would be split, according to earlier agreements among the Great Powers that precluded the creation of a large new Slavic state: the northern and eastern parts to become principalities as before (Principality of Bulgaria and Eastern Rumelia), though with different governors; and the Macedonian region, originally part of Bulgaria under San Stefano, would return to direct Ottoman administration.[43] At the Congress of Berlin, Bismarck said that he was fighting for peace in Europe. However he was not aware that his decision to split Bulgaria would start a war in the Balkans 34 years later and would eventually lead to World War I.[citation needed]

From here: Russo-Turkish War (1877-78)

Up until then Russia wanted to be allies with Germany but they felt sold out so made an alliance with France At the time England wasn't doing mutual defense pacts but Germany's proxy fight in the Boar wars and the build up of the German navy forced England into an alliance with France. Russia has always been worried about encirclement.

/It's a dangerous game the leaders are playing.


True, as far as it goes, Mags, but the Russians have been land-grabbin' neighbor-farkin' bastards since Ivan III or the Terrible, depending on how you count it. After WWII, they grabbed Central Europe. Understandable, considering the way they'd been chewed up during the war. Inexcusable, but understandable. They might have had a stronger case if they hadn't started the war by divvying up Poland with Germany, grabbing the Baltic Republics, and chewing up half of Finland.

What they're doing, and how the world reacts is very dangerous.
But it's not a game, and there are millions of lives on the line.
 
2014-03-03 10:40:36 PM  
Like I said, just nuke Moscow until it's a hole in the ground, and say 'this is our final warning. This is no longer the 19th century".

But then, that would unleash all sorts of hell.

On a  different sidenot, this is the perfect time for North Korea to do some crazy shiat, since no one will notice.
 
2014-03-03 10:41:01 PM  

Ow! That was my feelings!: It's 1979 all over again.
[www.bizpacreview.com image 530x260]


SWEET!  That means I'm 29 and single again. Thank you, FSM.
 
2014-03-03 10:44:29 PM  

zimbomba63: Ow! That was my feelings!: It's 1979 all over again.
[www.bizpacreview.com image 530x260]

SWEET!  That means I'm 29 and single again. Thank you, FSM.


I wasn't even born in this crazy age! What must I do!?.
 
2014-03-03 10:44:46 PM  
The Chinese will do anything to make it seem like they matter in global affairs.  The Russians desperately need anyone on their side.  It's a match made in heaven.
 
2014-03-03 10:44:56 PM  

SunsetLament: I'll admit, liberals are the most fun right at the moment when they realize the obvious results of their ideology flourishing is that everything goes to shiat.  It's a shame that everything has to actually go to shiat for them to realize it.  It's also a shame that they have to pretend they were not responsible in any way when it happens, too.

Thanks liberals - you're both hilarious and farking terrible.


Perhaps you've way overestimated them?
 
2014-03-03 10:47:30 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: tinfoil-hat maggie: A little history on why Russia may not listin to the West.

Intervention by the Great Powers[edit]
Under pressure from the British, Russia accepted the truce offered by the Ottoman Empire on January 31, 1878, but continued to move towards Constantinople.
The British sent a fleet of battleships to intimidate Russia from entering the city, and Russian forces stopped at San Stefano. Eventually Russia entered into a settlement under the Treaty of San Stefano on March 3, by which the Ottoman Empire would recognize the independence of Romania, Serbia, Montenegro, and the autonomy of Bulgaria.
Alarmed by the extension of Russian power into the Balkans, the Great Powers later forced modifications of the treaty in the Congress of Berlin. The main change here was that Bulgaria would be split, according to earlier agreements among the Great Powers that precluded the creation of a large new Slavic state: the northern and eastern parts to become principalities as before (Principality of Bulgaria and Eastern Rumelia), though with different governors; and the Macedonian region, originally part of Bulgaria under San Stefano, would return to direct Ottoman administration.[43] At the Congress of Berlin, Bismarck said that he was fighting for peace in Europe. However he was not aware that his decision to split Bulgaria would start a war in the Balkans 34 years later and would eventually lead to World War I.[citation needed]

From here: Russo-Turkish War (1877-78)

Up until then Russia wanted to be allies with Germany but they felt sold out so made an alliance with France At the time England wasn't doing mutual defense pacts but Germany's proxy fight in the Boar wars and the build up of the German navy forced England into an alliance with France. Russia has always been worried about encirclement.

/It's a dangerous game the leaders are playing.

True, as far as it goes, Mags, but the Russians have been land-grabbin' neighbor-farkin' bastards since Ivan III or ...


LoL, Thank goodness the USA didn't win huge parts of a continent from other people through violence and duplicity.
 
2014-03-03 10:49:14 PM  

grimlock1972: Seriously people even if Obama ordered troops to the Ukraine its very likely we would not yet have boots on the ground, it takes time to organize and set a line of supply and to build a coalition of nations to support the effort.

Seriously the only US Military assets that might have been able to respond by now is the US sixth fleet based in Naples Italy.

Any troops in Europe would need time to supply and permission would be needed to move through allied nations before they could roll for Ukraine.

A small force could be sent by air but not enough to do much of anything beside put Moscow on notice, provided once again we got okay to route through allied air space.


Incirlik Air Base (Turkey) would like a word. So would Aitos Logistics Center (Bulgaria), Souda Bay Naval Logistics Center (Greece), Bezmer Air Base (Bulgaria), and Graf Ignatievo Air Base (Bulgaria).

That's not really a "small" force (though admittedly, some of the forces in Turkey may be tied up in other places at the moment), and two separate logistics centers to supply. And yes, Army logistics (and non-logistics) personnel do, in fact, train in loading Air Force planes for supply drops. I was never supply, though I was in a combat field unit (intel), and I took the training course. We've also been known to hitch a ride with the Air Force on occasion. So, yes, we certainly could field a rapid response force if the Ukrainians could clear one of the airfields. Buddy of mine ran an Army Airfield for about a decade before he retired and before that, he WAS Army rapid response force--we can get troops on the ground anywhere in the world within 24 hours if absolutely necessary--and frequently have done so.
 
2014-03-03 10:50:45 PM  
How about one of you omniscient, patriotic experts on foreign relations educate the rest of us as to how President Romney would have acted to neutralize the Putin threat?
 
2014-03-03 10:54:42 PM  

CygnusDarius: zimbomba63: Ow! That was my feelings!: It's 1979 all over again.
[www.bizpacreview.com image 530x260]

SWEET!  That means I'm 29 and single again. Thank you, FSM.

I wasn't even born in this crazy age! What must I do!?.


Select punk or new wave over disco and hair-band metal if you like sex.
And really stock up on Levis 501 Shrink-to-Fits - they go to a much lighter
denim and stop making them in the US before you can blink.

/Wrap your package, too.
 
2014-03-03 10:55:16 PM  

Epic Fap Session: How about one of you omniscient, patriotic experts on foreign relations educate the rest of us as to how President Romney would have acted to neutralize the Putin threat?


He would have (wisely) done the same farking thing Obama is doing--and I am neither a fan of Obama nor Romney, but McCain and the rest of the virulently anti-Obamniacs need to shut the hell up. He is doing exactly what the Budapest documents call for, and he is staying within the bonds of international law.

Had he run out and done what Bush did in Iraq, THAT would be illegal. Yet it is EXACTLY what some are calling for--and EXACTLY what Putin has done.
 
2014-03-03 10:55:19 PM  

Aigoo: grimlock1972: Seriously people even if Obama ordered troops to the Ukraine its very likely we would not yet have boots on the ground, it takes time to organize and set a line of supply and to build a coalition of nations to support the effort.

Seriously the only US Military assets that might have been able to respond by now is the US sixth fleet based in Naples Italy.

Any troops in Europe would need time to supply and permission would be needed to move through allied nations before they could roll for Ukraine.

A small force could be sent by air but not enough to do much of anything beside put Moscow on notice, provided once again we got okay to route through allied air space.

Incirlik Air Base (Turkey) would like a word. So would Aitos Logistics Center (Bulgaria), Souda Bay Naval Logistics Center (Greece), Bezmer Air Base (Bulgaria), and Graf Ignatievo Air Base (Bulgaria).

That's not really a "small" force (though admittedly, some of the forces in Turkey may be tied up in other places at the moment), and two separate logistics centers to supply. And yes, Army logistics (and non-logistics) personnel do, in fact, train in loading Air Force planes for supply drops. I was never supply, though I was in a combat field unit (intel), and I took the training course. We've also been known to hitch a ride with the Air Force on occasion. So, yes, we certainly could field a rapid response force if the Ukrainians could clear one of the airfields. Buddy of mine ran an Army Airfield for about a decade before he retired and before that, he WAS Army rapid response force--we can get troops on the ground anywhere in the world within 24 hours if absolutely necessary--and frequently have done so.


As a teenage AF brat I used to work for a MAPS squadron.  Not only can we get troops on the ground anywhere in the world within 24 hours, we can build a functioning air port anywhere in the world in the same amount of time assuming it's secured.  You'd be amazed how fast we moved an entire Army through Rhein Main.  Just keep bringing in the C5s and C17s all day every day, 80 to 150 per day.  We'll load them up and ship them out.
 
2014-03-03 10:56:10 PM  

tinfoil-hat maggie: demaL-demaL-yeH: tinfoil-hat maggie: A little history on why Russia may not listin to the West.

Intervention by the Great Powers[edit]
Under pressure from the British, Russia accepted the truce offered by the Ottoman Empire on January 31, 1878, but continued to move towards Constantinople.
The British sent a fleet of battleships to intimidate Russia from entering the city, and Russian forces stopped at San Stefano. Eventually Russia entered into a settlement under the Treaty of San Stefano on March 3, by which the Ottoman Empire would recognize the independence of Romania, Serbia, Montenegro, and the autonomy of Bulgaria.
Alarmed by the extension of Russian power into the Balkans, the Great Powers later forced modifications of the treaty in the Congress of Berlin. The main change here was that Bulgaria would be split, according to earlier agreements among the Great Powers that precluded the creation of a large new Slavic state: the northern and eastern parts to become principalities as before (Principality of Bulgaria and Eastern Rumelia), though with different governors; and the Macedonian region, originally part of Bulgaria under San Stefano, would return to direct Ottoman administration.[43] At the Congress of Berlin, Bismarck said that he was fighting for peace in Europe. However he was not aware that his decision to split Bulgaria would start a war in the Balkans 34 years later and would eventually lead to World War I.[citation needed]

From here: Russo-Turkish War (1877-78)

Up until then Russia wanted to be allies with Germany but they felt sold out so made an alliance with France At the time England wasn't doing mutual defense pacts but Germany's proxy fight in the Boar wars and the build up of the German navy forced England into an alliance with France. Russia has always been worried about encirclement.

/It's a dangerous game the leaders are playing.

True, as far as it goes, Mags, but the Russians have been land-grabbin' neighbor-farkin' bastards since I ...


We stopped, and not because we were forced to.
 
2014-03-03 10:57:27 PM  

Epic Fap Session: How about one of you omniscient, patriotic experts on foreign relations educate the rest of us as to how President Romney would have acted to neutralize the Putin threat?


www.poprewind.com

interns.barrelny.com
 
2014-03-03 10:59:06 PM  

Aigoo: grimlock1972: Seriously people even if Obama ordered troops to the Ukraine its very likely we would not yet have boots on the ground, it takes time to organize and set a line of supply and to build a coalition of nations to support the effort.

Seriously the only US Military assets that might have been able to respond by now is the US sixth fleet based in Naples Italy.

Any troops in Europe would need time to supply and permission would be needed to move through allied nations before they could roll for Ukraine.

A small force could be sent by air but not enough to do much of anything beside put Moscow on notice, provided once again we got okay to route through allied air space.

Incirlik Air Base (Turkey) would like a word. So would Aitos Logistics Center (Bulgaria), Souda Bay Naval Logistics Center (Greece), Bezmer Air Base (Bulgaria), and Graf Ignatievo Air Base (Bulgaria).

That's not really a "small" force (though admittedly, some of the forces in Turkey may be tied up in other places at the moment), and two separate logistics centers to supply. And yes, Army logistics (and non-logistics) personnel do, in fact, train in loading Air Force planes for supply drops. I was never supply, though I was in a combat field unit (intel), and I took the training course. We've also been known to hitch a ride with the Air Force on occasion. So, yes, we certainly could field a rapid response force if the Ukrainians could clear one of the airfields. Buddy of mine ran an Army Airfield for about a decade before he retired and before that, he WAS Army rapid response force--we can get troops on the ground anywhere in the world within 24 hours if absolutely necessary--and frequently have done so.


Pull your anemometer out of your helmet, bro.
/sotI?
 
2014-03-03 10:59:37 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: CygnusDarius: zimbomba63: Ow! That was my feelings!: It's 1979 all over again.
[www.bizpacreview.com image 530x260]

SWEET!  That means I'm 29 and single again. Thank you, FSM.

I wasn't even born in this crazy age! What must I do!?.

Select punk or new wave over disco and hair-band metal if you like sex.
And really stock up on Levis 501 Shrink-to-Fits - they go to a much lighter
denim and stop making them in the US before you can blink.

/Wrap your package, too.


Lulz, but good advice : D
 
2014-03-03 11:00:57 PM  
Mrtraveler01:

Still nothing. I know its hard for conservatives to grasp such things but try...

What should have been done with Ukraine?


Ironic a liberal shill trolling for solutions when pointing and laughing and denying that Russia is a geo political foe in 2008 and 2012 got us here ... I have a solution let people that actually know what the problems are deal with them instead of pointing and laughing to win elections.  I'd rather vote for the guy that acknowledges the problem he might be looking for a solution the other guy get's blindsided just like the POTUS did.
 
2014-03-03 11:02:00 PM  

RexTalionis: Rather than basing this whole thread on what Russia said China said, why dont we look at the actual statement issued by China?

"But China's foreign ministry spokesman, Qin Gang, gave a somewhat different take on China's position during the past two days: "It is China's longstanding position not to interfere in others' internal affairs. We respect the independence, sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine," he said, according to a statement posted on the Chinese ministry's website on Sunday."


Does this include drones?
 
2014-03-03 11:03:00 PM  

PewterPirate55: Mrtraveler01:

Still nothing. I know its hard for conservatives to grasp such things but try...

What should have been done with Ukraine?

Ironic a liberal shill trolling for solutions when pointing and laughing and denying that Russia is a geo political foe in 2008 and 2012 got us here ... I have a solution let people that actually know what the problems are deal with them instead of pointing and laughing to win elections.  I'd rather vote for the guy that acknowledges the problem he might be looking for a solution the other guy get's blindsided just like the POTUS did.


The Russians are not targeting anything that impairs our national interests. They are simply being opportunistic bastards.
 
2014-03-03 11:03:15 PM  

PewterPirate55: Mrtraveler01:

Still nothing. I know its hard for conservatives to grasp such things but try...

What should have been done with Ukraine?

Ironic a liberal shill trolling for solutions when pointing and laughing and denying that Russia is a geo political foe in 2008 and 2012 got us here ... I have a solution let people that actually know what the problems are deal with them instead of pointing and laughing to win elections.  I'd rather vote for the guy that acknowledges the problem he might be looking for a solution the other guy get's blindsided just like the POTUS did.


Just to be clear, you're supporting intervention in the situation of some sort?  Either economically or militarily?  Maybe just push politically in Ukraine's favor through the UN?
 
2014-03-03 11:04:06 PM  

Aigoo: Epic Fap Session: How about one of you omniscient, patriotic experts on foreign relations educate the rest of us as to how President Romney would have acted to neutralize the Putin threat?

He would have (wisely) done the same farking thing Obama is doing--and I am neither a fan of Obama nor Romney, but McCain and the rest of the virulently anti-Obamniacs need to shut the hell up. He is doing exactly what the Budapest documents call for, and he is staying within the bonds of international law.

Had he run out and done what Bush did in Iraq, THAT would be illegal. Yet it is EXACTLY what some are calling for--and EXACTLY what Putin has done.


With all due respect but Romney was an idiot when it came to foreign policy as evidenced by the foreign policy debate where he kept saying that Obama's policy doesn't work but when asked what he would do instead, said that he would basically do the same thing Obama did.

Obama's strength was actually foreign policy because the rest of the country was fatigued after a decade of neocons running things. That's why they were so desperate for Benghazi to stick and why they're so desperate to make this seem like it's Obama fault (even though in reality the same thing would've happened with Romney in charge).

But I agree, short of possibly enacting some sanctions, we really shouldn't do more than that.
 
2014-03-03 11:04:50 PM  

Epic Fap Session: How about one of you omniscient, patriotic experts on foreign relations educate the rest of us as to how President Romney would have acted to neutralize the Putin threat?


He doesn't have a Nobel Peace Prize to shake so the magic answer appears on the bottom.
 
2014-03-03 11:05:16 PM  

PewterPirate55: Mrtraveler01:

Still nothing. I know its hard for conservatives to grasp such things but try...

What should have been done with Ukraine?

Ironic a liberal shill trolling for solutions when pointing and laughing and denying that Russia is a geo political foe in 2008 and 2012 got us here ... I have a solution let people that actually know what the problems are deal with them instead of pointing and laughing to win elections.  I'd rather vote for the guy that acknowledges the problem he might be looking for a solution the other guy get's blindsided just like the POTUS did.


So what should've been the solution then?
 
2014-03-03 11:06:02 PM  

PewterPirate55: Mrtraveler01:

Still nothing. I know its hard for conservatives to grasp such things but try...

What should have been done with Ukraine?

Ironic a liberal shill trolling for solutions when pointing and laughing and denying that Russia is a geo political foe in 2008 and 2012 got us here ... I have a solution let people that actually know what the problems are deal with them instead of pointing and laughing to win elections.  I'd rather vote for the guy that acknowledges the problem he might be looking for a solution the other guy get's blindsided just like the POTUS did.


You other folks will note, of course, that PewterPirate STILL hasn't said what Obama should have done besides "Lose to a Republican".
 
2014-03-03 11:07:23 PM  

Agatha Crispy: Epic Fap Session: How about one of you omniscient, patriotic experts on foreign relations educate the rest of us as to how President Romney would have acted to neutralize the Putin threat?

He doesn't have a Nobel Peace Prize to shake so the magic answer appears on the bottom.


So you're implying that nobody EVER should have received a Nobel Peace Prize? Because guess what? EVERY SINGLE PEACE PRIZE WINNER LIVED WHILE NON-PEACEFUL SHIAT HAPPENED.
 
2014-03-03 11:08:45 PM  
Generally speaking, complex problems do not have simple solutions.
Which assplains the right-wing armchair quarterbacking when it comes to foreign policy on Fark.
 
2014-03-03 11:09:54 PM  

LordJiro: Agatha Crispy: Epic Fap Session: How about one of you omniscient, patriotic experts on foreign relations educate the rest of us as to how President Romney would have acted to neutralize the Putin threat?

He doesn't have a Nobel Peace Prize to shake so the magic answer appears on the bottom.

So you're implying that nobody EVER should have received a Nobel Peace Prize? Because guess what? EVERY SINGLE PEACE PRIZE WINNER LIVED WHILE NON-PEACEFUL SHIAT HAPPENED.


Every single Nobel Peace Prize winner actually did something to win it. What did your President do to deserve a Nobel Peace Prize three months into office?
 
2014-03-03 11:11:00 PM  

Agatha Crispy: LordJiro: Agatha Crispy: Epic Fap Session: How about one of you omniscient, patriotic experts on foreign relations educate the rest of us as to how President Romney would have acted to neutralize the Putin threat?

He doesn't have a Nobel Peace Prize to shake so the magic answer appears on the bottom.

So you're implying that nobody EVER should have received a Nobel Peace Prize? Because guess what? EVERY SINGLE PEACE PRIZE WINNER LIVED WHILE NON-PEACEFUL SHIAT HAPPENED.

Every single Nobel Peace Prize winner actually did something to win it. What did your President do to deserve a Nobel Peace Prize three months into office?


He kept Republicans out of office.  You see how grateful the rest of the world was?
 
2014-03-03 11:12:04 PM  

rohar: Agatha Crispy: LordJiro: Agatha Crispy: Epic Fap Session: How about one of you omniscient, patriotic experts on foreign relations educate the rest of us as to how President Romney would have acted to neutralize the Putin threat?

He doesn't have a Nobel Peace Prize to shake so the magic answer appears on the bottom.

So you're implying that nobody EVER should have received a Nobel Peace Prize? Because guess what? EVERY SINGLE PEACE PRIZE WINNER LIVED WHILE NON-PEACEFUL SHIAT HAPPENED.

Every single Nobel Peace Prize winner actually did something to win it. What did your President do to deserve a Nobel Peace Prize three months into office?

He kept Republicans out of office.  You see how grateful the rest of the world was?


Yes, the dead wedding parties in Yemen are overjoyed.
 
2014-03-03 11:14:10 PM  

rohar: Aigoo: grimlock1972: Seriously people even if Obama ordered troops to the Ukraine its very likely we would not yet have boots on the ground, it takes time to organize and set a line of supply and to build a coalition of nations to support the effort.

Seriously the only US Military assets that might have been able to respond by now is the US sixth fleet based in Naples Italy.

Any troops in Europe would need time to supply and permission would be needed to move through allied nations before they could roll for Ukraine.

A small force could be sent by air but not enough to do much of anything beside put Moscow on notice, provided once again we got okay to route through allied air space.

Incirlik Air Base (Turkey) would like a word. So would Aitos Logistics Center (Bulgaria), Souda Bay Naval Logistics Center (Greece), Bezmer Air Base (Bulgaria), and Graf Ignatievo Air Base (Bulgaria).

That's not really a "small" force (though admittedly, some of the forces in Turkey may be tied up in other places at the moment), and two separate logistics centers to supply. And yes, Army logistics (and non-logistics) personnel do, in fact, train in loading Air Force planes for supply drops. I was never supply, though I was in a combat field unit (intel), and I took the training course. We've also been known to hitch a ride with the Air Force on occasion. So, yes, we certainly could field a rapid response force if the Ukrainians could clear one of the airfields. Buddy of mine ran an Army Airfield for about a decade before he retired and before that, he WAS Army rapid response force--we can get troops on the ground anywhere in the world within 24 hours if absolutely necessary--and frequently have done so.

As a teenage AF brat I used to work for a MAPS squadron.  Not only can we get troops on the ground anywhere in the world within 24 hours, we can build a functioning air port anywhere in the world in the same amount of time assuming it's secured.  You'd be amazed how fast we moved an ...


No I wouldn't, LOL. I was being very general--my knowledge is primarily Army and what the Army can do in 24 hours (often with the Air Force's assistance in transportation). But I know damned well if we can get an Army rapid response force in, there's a shiat ton more that can and is being done by the Air Force that the Army isn't doing itself. :D
 
2014-03-03 11:14:25 PM  
So the only answer to the question was partisan bullshiat from the party who doesn't understand why the country is divided. It's okay, I didn't expect anyone to have an answer.
 
2014-03-03 11:15:08 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: We stopped, and not because we were forced to.


Huh? Wounded Knee incident, I believe Canada has had more recent incidents.
 
2014-03-03 11:15:18 PM  

Agatha Crispy: LordJiro: Agatha Crispy: Epic Fap Session: How about one of you omniscient, patriotic experts on foreign relations educate the rest of us as to how President Romney would have acted to neutralize the Putin threat?

He doesn't have a Nobel Peace Prize to shake so the magic answer appears on the bottom.

So you're implying that nobody EVER should have received a Nobel Peace Prize? Because guess what? EVERY SINGLE PEACE PRIZE WINNER LIVED WHILE NON-PEACEFUL SHIAT HAPPENED.

Every single Nobel Peace Prize winner actually did something to win it. What did your President do to deserve a Nobel Peace Prize three months into office?


Theodore Roosevelt was another Nobel Peace Laureate. After conquering the Philippines. Your point?
 
2014-03-03 11:15:55 PM  

Agatha Crispy: rohar: Agatha Crispy: LordJiro: Agatha Crispy: Epic Fap Session: How about one of you omniscient, patriotic experts on foreign relations educate the rest of us as to how President Romney would have acted to neutralize the Putin threat?

He doesn't have a Nobel Peace Prize to shake so the magic answer appears on the bottom.

So you're implying that nobody EVER should have received a Nobel Peace Prize? Because guess what? EVERY SINGLE PEACE PRIZE WINNER LIVED WHILE NON-PEACEFUL SHIAT HAPPENED.

Every single Nobel Peace Prize winner actually did something to win it. What did your President do to deserve a Nobel Peace Prize three months into office?

He kept Republicans out of office.  You see how grateful the rest of the world was?

Yes, the dead wedding parties in Yemen are overjoyed.


The hundreds of thousands, if not more, of Iranian civilians that would have been killed in the Iranian war McCain and Romney were dead-set on certainly are. As are the tens of thousands, if not more, American soldiers that would have died.
 
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