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(Sky.com)   China and Russia are "in agreement" about Ukraine. In other news. It might be time to clear out grandpa's old fallout bunker   (news.sky.com) divider line 321
    More: Followup, Ukraine, Russia, ferry slip, Foreign Secretary William Hague, Russian flag, territorial integrity, Donetsk, Viktor Yanukovych  
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7309 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Mar 2014 at 6:25 PM (24 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



321 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-03-03 04:37:37 PM
In other news water is wet.
 
2014-03-03 04:57:40 PM
So, what's the deal with Ukraine and Russia? Is something bad going to happen?
 
2014-03-03 05:05:33 PM
Six hundred rode into the valley of death.
Cannons to the left of them
Cannons to the right
Into the valley of death rode the six hundred
 
2014-03-03 05:22:56 PM
Maybe the Brits will send in Harry Flashman to clear things up in the Crimea.
 
2014-03-03 05:30:58 PM
We'll see.  China has always been very leery about encouraging independence movements and they hung Putin out to dry during the Georgia crisis.  If the West pushes things, then we'll see how general the agreement is.
 
2014-03-03 05:41:58 PM
It sounds like Ukraine is one big FlusterCluck.
 
2014-03-03 06:26:09 PM
Asses of Evil.
 
2014-03-03 06:28:00 PM

kidakita: Maybe the Brits will send in Harry Flashman to clear things up in the Crimea.


Screw that! It's time to call in ACE RIMMER!

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-03-03 06:28:42 PM

Mentat: We'll see.  China has always been very leery about encouraging independence movements and they hung Putin out to dry during the Georgia crisis.  If the West pushes things, then we'll see how general the agreement is.


There's still a strong chance they'll support Russia, in a 'Why don't you go pick a fight with everybody, so we can quietly steal this bit of ocean over here while no one's looking' sort of way.
 
2014-03-03 06:29:14 PM
cdn.washingtonexaminer.biz
 
2014-03-03 06:29:35 PM
Russia has said China is largely "in agreement" over Ukraine, after other world powers condemned Moscow for sending troops into the country.

I'm not saying it isn;t true but let's wait to hear what the Chinese actually have to say rather than through some Russian dude in Crimea.
until China starts sending tanks into Crimea or Ukraine why does it really matter? China's influence is almost nil and they have very little interest there whether it's for or against Putin's lil adventure.
 
2014-03-03 06:30:55 PM

toraque: Mentat: We'll see.  China has always been very leery about encouraging independence movements and they hung Putin out to dry during the Georgia crisis.  If the West pushes things, then we'll see how general the agreement is.

There's still a strong chance they'll support Russia, in a 'Why don't you go pick a fight with everybody, so we can quietly steal this bit of ocean over here while no one's looking' sort of way.


Pff they'll steal Siberia or buy it for pennies from a broke ass Russia
 
2014-03-03 06:32:22 PM
Based on the west's response (actions not words) they are "largely in agreement" also.
 
2014-03-03 06:32:50 PM

Mark Ratner: So, what's the deal with Ukraine and Russia? Is something bad going to happen?


That depends. Are you in the Ukraine, in a former Soviet Bloc nation that is NOT part of NATO or the EU, or in a former Soviet Bloc nation in general? Then something bad is likely to happen. If you are anywhere else in the world, get ready for quite a bit of political bluster and a shortage on Russian vodka (and fossil fuels in Europe, if you're in the EU) but not a whole lot else.

Essentially Russia is going to turn Ukraine into an unofficial province/state of Russia again. As the Ukraine isn't a part of NATO or the EU, it's not likely to elicit the sort of response that saves Ukrainian independence. It might end up being time to get out the Cold War II: Nuclear Boogaloo gas masks and start fearing the Ruskie's again, until Russia collapses under its own corruption again. Wash, rinse, lather, repeat, tell our grandkids about the evil Ruskies and no matter how hot their women are, DO NOT STICK YOUR (BLANK) IN RUSSIAN.
 
2014-03-03 06:33:11 PM

toraque: Mentat: We'll see.  China has always been very leery about encouraging independence movements and they hung Putin out to dry during the Georgia crisis.  If the West pushes things, then we'll see how general the agreement is.

There's still a strong chance they'll support Russia, in a 'Why don't you go pick a fight with everybody, so we can quietly steal this bit of ocean over here while no one's looking' sort of way.


Yep. It wouldn't surprise me if China wanted that war. They'd be in a position to profit quite a bit both selling during the war and lending to the rebuilding effort once the dust settles.
 
2014-03-03 06:33:24 PM

jim32rr:


War with Russia is the answer.Hi
 
2014-03-03 06:33:58 PM

The fifth malformed ring is actually the remains of Ukraine after Russia has stomped them to mush.


static6.businessinsider.com

 
2014-03-03 06:34:55 PM

toraque: Mentat: We'll see.  China has always been very leery about encouraging independence movements and they hung Putin out to dry during the Georgia crisis.  If the West pushes things, then we'll see how general the agreement is.

There's still a strong chance they'll support Russia, in a 'Why don't you go pick a fight with everybody, so we can quietly steal this bit of ocean over here while no one's looking' sort of way.


The Chinese HAVE TO support Russia on this.  Any hint that democratic overthrow of authority might lead to positive change must be stomped out.
 
2014-03-03 06:35:13 PM
It could simply be Tibet-for-tat diplomacy.
 
2014-03-03 06:35:25 PM

Mark Ratner: So, what's the deal with Ukraine and Russia? Is something bad going to happen?



I'm not sure, but I'm starting to think we shouldn't just trust the Russians. Or the Chinese.
 
2014-03-03 06:35:30 PM
i1.ytimg.com
 
2014-03-03 06:35:47 PM
The us should kick them out of the G8 and take economic sanctions against them. I know the couch generals want their war but after awhile the money will get disrupted and the Russians will withdraw. Nobody needs to die over this. Putin shot himself in the foot on this one.
 
2014-03-03 06:36:42 PM
So tell me how sanctions will work again?
 
2014-03-03 06:37:09 PM

TV's Vinnie: kidakita: Maybe the Brits will send in Harry Flashman to clear things up in the Crimea.

Screw that! It's time to call in ACE RIMMER!

[upload.wikimedia.org image 512x384]


What a guy!
 
2014-03-03 06:37:23 PM
Coming soon to your book rack: World War III: Putin's Gambit.
 
2014-03-03 06:38:03 PM
Not our problem.
 
2014-03-03 06:38:41 PM

jim32rr: [cdn.washingtonexaminer.biz image 550x550]


Troops behind fence, farthest left: Steve Carell?
 
2014-03-03 06:40:07 PM
This guy out of rehab yet?
a.abcnews.com
 
2014-03-03 06:40:40 PM
I can see why China would have no objection with a large country "defending" a bit of turf that someone else is claiming as its sovereign territory.
 
2014-03-03 06:40:42 PM
Looks like Obama will make the the G8 to be the G6 pretty soon then!
 
2014-03-03 06:40:54 PM
What if the entire objective of this whole thing is just to make a lot of people scared?
 
2014-03-03 06:41:26 PM
Turn on the WOPR.
 
2014-03-03 06:41:29 PM
It's 1979 all over again.
www.bizpacreview.com
 
2014-03-03 06:41:42 PM
Well the people fought the leader,
And up he flew...
With no Washington bullets what else could he do?
 
2014-03-03 06:41:45 PM
So, what is going to happen with our spaceflights/ folks on the space staion?

Hitching a ride with the Russians wasn't the best idea...
 
2014-03-03 06:43:11 PM

germ78: So tell me how sanctions will work again?


They have to do something, they are fresh out of strongly worded letters.
 
2014-03-03 06:43:16 PM
Fark should go to Derpcon 2.
 
2014-03-03 06:44:29 PM

germ78: So tell me how sanctions will work again?


Russia is a kleptocracy, not a dictatorship, so they are very vulnerable to being hit in the wallet. A return to the Cold War would be very bad for business within Russia, so at some point there will be pressure to de-escalate from within the business community because they are losing contracts and it is hurting their bottom line. Sanctions could help accelerate the process by brining the pain more quickly.
 
2014-03-03 06:44:30 PM

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: toraque: Mentat: We'll see.  China has always been very leery about encouraging independence movements and they hung Putin out to dry during the Georgia crisis.  If the West pushes things, then we'll see how general the agreement is.

There's still a strong chance they'll support Russia, in a 'Why don't you go pick a fight with everybody, so we can quietly steal this bit of ocean over here while no one's looking' sort of way.

The Chinese HAVE TO support Russia on this.  Any hint that democratic overthrow of authority might lead to positive change must be stomped out.


They have to be careful here.  In the SC they're strictly non-interventionalist, and their statement there reflected this, IMO.  Yes, they condemned how the current Ukrainian leadership came to power, but they also cautioned that both sides needed to stay out of what is an internal Ukrainian conflict.

What you'll see from China is a lot of talk, but no action.  As long as Russia looks like it's just protecting its bases/transport routes, they'll let it slide.  The moment they enter the rest of Ukraine, they'll lose Chinese vocal support, further isolating Russia.
 
2014-03-03 06:44:44 PM

zzrhardy: Not our problem.



Ukraine is a puppy on the freeway right now.

Best to keep on driving.
 
2014-03-03 06:45:30 PM
China just wants to be able to use that same excuse on the Russian Far East in 30 to 50 years. "We're just moving in our troops to protect the Chinese people in Russia from X excuse".
 
2014-03-03 06:45:41 PM

Nike121: So, what is going to happen with our spaceflights/ folks on the space staion?

Hitching a ride with the Russians wasn't the best idea...


The magic marketplace will figure that one out. In the meantime, breath shallow up there, folks!
 
2014-03-03 06:46:01 PM
If Russia succeeds, China wins, as it will get a better idea on options concerning Taiwan, Spratly Islands, etc.

If Russia fails and weakens itself, China wins, as it will get a better idea on options concerning Taiwan, Spratly Islands, etc., and what not to do. And also a timetable on when and what to call Vladivostok since it's "traditional Chinese territories."

Win-win.
 
2014-03-03 06:46:04 PM

Ginnungagap42: TV's Vinnie: kidakita: Maybe the Brits will send in Harry Flashman to clear things up in the Crimea.

Screw that! It's time to call in ACE RIMMER!

[upload.wikimedia.org image 512x384]

What a guy!


"Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast!"

-what the fark is a kipper?
 
2014-03-03 06:46:39 PM
Those pieces of paper protecting Taiwan and Japan are not looking good.
 
2014-03-03 06:47:17 PM

BalugaJoe: Fark should go to Derpcon 2.


what is this the 8th thread today? It is so ridiculous all of the great pontificators here.
 
2014-03-03 06:47:36 PM
Just heard a piece on NPR about how the newly-installed Crimean minister is some two-bit thug and a member of the "Russian Unity Party".

Popcorn's almost ready....
 
2014-03-03 06:48:05 PM

jim32rr: [cdn.washingtonexaminer.biz image 550x550]


If you think for a second that this wouldn't be happening under a GOP president, you're either uneducated or disingenuous.

Nothing the US has done (or not done) in the past decade has had any effect on this whatsoever.
 
2014-03-03 06:48:16 PM

Mad_Radhu: germ78: So tell me how sanctions will work again?

Russia is a kleptocracy, not a dictatorship, so they are very vulnerable to being hit in the wallet. A return to the Cold War would be very bad for business within Russia, so at some point there will be pressure to de-escalate from within the business community because they are losing contracts and it is hurting their bottom line. Sanctions could help accelerate the process by brining the pain more quickly.


But that doesn't fit the Fox News Dialog. It's easier to say "Russia bad!! Obama can't do nuttin bout it!!!" But if he did, he's then a war-monger, assassin who doesn't get Congressional Approval. Or something. I can't keep up with these kids.
 
2014-03-03 06:48:50 PM
Based on my skills with the board game risk, now that the Russians are occupied with a scuffle on their home turf, rather than try to resist them where they are strong, we should be diverting all of our energy into an invasion of Syria.  It would force a decision from Putin:  Ukraine or Syria, Sevestepol or Tartus.  Either way they lose one.
 
2014-03-03 06:49:03 PM

Practical_Draconian: If Russia succeeds, China wins, as it will get a better idea on options concerning Taiwan, Spratly Islands, etc.

If Russia fails and weakens itself, China wins, as it will get a better idea on options concerning Taiwan, Spratly Islands, etc., and what not to do. And also a timetable on when and what to call Vladivostok since it's "traditional Chinese territories."

Win-win.


mkjon.es
 
2014-03-03 06:49:12 PM

jim32rr: [cdn.washingtonexaminer.biz image 550x550]


I'd be hedging my bets if I were you. Else you run the risk of looking quite stupid when diplomacy works...

Nah, I'm sure you don't care.
 
2014-03-03 06:49:27 PM
recessappointment.com
 
2014-03-03 06:49:44 PM

Nike121: So, what is going to happen with our spaceflights/ folks on the space staion?

Hitching a ride with the Russians wasn't the best idea...


The rockets are actually launched from  Kazakhstan, and the Russians are only renting the Cosmodrome, so they can't be TOO belligerent unless they invade that country as well.
 
2014-03-03 06:51:41 PM
China likes to pout about getting their feelings hurt, but they have no problem stomping on the toes of others.
 
2014-03-03 06:53:04 PM

Mad_Radhu: Nike121: So, what is going to happen with our spaceflights/ folks on the space staion?

Hitching a ride with the Russians wasn't the best idea...

The rockets are actually launched from  Kazakhstan, and the Russians are only renting the Cosmodrome, so they can't be TOO belligerent unless they invade that country as well.


much easier, tovarisch, to destabilize said country until the populace beg the kind of benevolent russian army to return. for peace and stability!
 
2014-03-03 06:56:54 PM

germ78: So tell me how

wellsanctions will work again?

FTFY

Working so well with Iran, No. Korea, and Cuba... they all are doing exactly what the USofA says...
 
2014-03-03 06:58:11 PM

orclover: Ginnungagap42: TV's Vinnie: kidakita: Maybe the Brits will send in Harry Flashman to clear things up in the Crimea.

Screw that! It's time to call in ACE RIMMER!

[upload.wikimedia.org image 512x384]

What a guy!

"Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast!"

-what the fark is a kipper?


static.guim.co.uk
This might be a picture of smoked kipper.
 
2014-03-03 06:58:42 PM
Submittard doing what submittard does best.

Is Russia or China going to nuke you? No they're not.
 
2014-03-03 06:58:53 PM

jim32rr: [cdn.washingtonexaminer.biz image 550x550]


You're right, we should follow the Bush doctrine and invade, oh, Ireland.
 
2014-03-03 07:01:26 PM
Are we going to have to add Vladimir Putin's name to the list of "People That Time Travelers Should Not Go Kill" List, right under Hitler's?
 
2014-03-03 07:02:29 PM

orclover: Ginnungagap42: TV's Vinnie: kidakita: Maybe the Brits will send in Harry Flashman to clear things up in the Crimea.

Screw that! It's time to call in ACE RIMMER!

[upload.wikimedia.org image 512x384]

What a guy!

"Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast!"

-what the fark is a kipper?


Too lazy to Google it?
In that case, a kipper is someone who is sleeping.
 
2014-03-03 07:03:32 PM

Mad_Radhu: germ78: So tell me how sanctions will work again?

Russia is a kleptocracy, not a dictatorship, so they are very vulnerable to being hit in the wallet. A return to the Cold War would be very bad for business within Russia, so at some point there will be pressure to de-escalate from within the business community because they are losing contracts and it is hurting their bottom line. Sanctions could help accelerate the process by brining the pain more quickly.


Thanks for the long-form answer. Though I'm skeptical in thinking that China could easily do an end-around on the sanctions by helping prop up Russia through hidden means. And then what would we do when we find out? Sanctions on China? I strongly doubt that.
 
2014-03-03 07:03:38 PM
Well, that should make the euros forget about that little NSA thing. Thanks, Uncle Vlad!
 
2014-03-03 07:04:09 PM

jim32rr: [cdn.washingtonexaminer.biz image 550x550]


Same as it did under Bush's "Lead With Your Dick" strategy.
 
2014-03-03 07:06:02 PM

orclover: Ginnungagap42: TV's Vinnie: kidakita: Maybe the Brits will send in Harry Flashman to clear things up in the Crimea.

Screw that! It's time to call in ACE RIMMER!

[upload.wikimedia.org image 512x384]

What a guy!

"Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast!"

-what the fark is a kipper?


Split herring, typically served smoked, traditional English breakfast food.
 
2014-03-03 07:07:54 PM
I think Obama should fart some rainbows and fix everything.  Weren't we all told the entire world loved him and that they'd be falling all over themselves to follow his lead once he took office?

Yes we can!
 
2014-03-03 07:09:04 PM
About time the West give up on the two decade experiment with Russia. Let them go hand out with what few friends they have left. Belarus, the Central Asian dictatorships, Iran, Syria, and China.
 
2014-03-03 07:09:17 PM
Erin Burnett is looking very sexy tonight.
 
2014-03-03 07:12:50 PM

SunsetLament: I think Obama should fart some rainbows and fix everything.  Weren't we all told the entire world loved him and that they'd be falling all over themselves to follow his lead once he took office?

Yes we can!


I know you're a troll, but can you keep your talking points straight. Why did they give him that nobel peace prize again? You're saying it WASNT because they loved him and fell all over themselves now?
 
2014-03-03 07:13:22 PM

SunsetLament: I think Obama should fart some rainbows and fix everything.  Weren't we all told the entire world loved him and that they'd be falling all over themselves to follow his lead once he took office?

Yes we can!


So what should we have done instead?
 
2014-03-03 07:18:45 PM
It's time for duct tape and plastic on the windows.
 
2014-03-03 07:21:54 PM

Mrtraveler01: SunsetLament: I think Obama should fart some rainbows and fix everything.  Weren't we all told the entire world loved him and that they'd be falling all over themselves to follow his lead once he took office?

Yes we can!

So what should we have done instead?


Not signal to the world that the United States isn't going to lift a finger to defend any of our allies because it's too important to follow the lead of the idiot American hippies that helped put him in office.
 
2014-03-03 07:23:53 PM

TV's Vinnie: kidakita: Maybe the Brits will send in Harry Flashman to clear things up in the Crimea.

Screw that! It's time to call in ACE RIMMER!

[upload.wikimedia.org image 512x384]


Interior Crocodile Alligator ...
 
2014-03-03 07:24:20 PM

SunsetLament: Mrtraveler01: SunsetLament: I think Obama should fart some rainbows and fix everything.  Weren't we all told the entire world loved him and that they'd be falling all over themselves to follow his lead once he took office?

Yes we can!

So what should we have done instead?

Not signal to the world that the United States isn't going to lift a finger to defend any of our allies because it's too important to follow the lead of the idiot American hippies that helped put him in office.


Once again, offering no solution. Typical conservative. ;)

I ask again, what should have been the solution.
 
2014-03-03 07:24:22 PM

SunsetLament: Mrtraveler01: SunsetLament: I think Obama should fart some rainbows and fix everything.  Weren't we all told the entire world loved him and that they'd be falling all over themselves to follow his lead once he took office?

Yes we can!

So what should we have done instead?

Not signal to the world that the United States isn't going to lift a finger to defend any of our allies because it's too important to follow the lead of the idiot American hippies that helped put him in office.


Ah, vague platitudes, king of all Republican positions.
 
2014-03-03 07:24:42 PM

SunsetLament: Mrtraveler01: SunsetLament: I think Obama should fart some rainbows and fix everything.  Weren't we all told the entire world loved him and that they'd be falling all over themselves to follow his lead once he took office?

Yes we can!

So what should we have done instead?

Not signal to the world that the United States isn't going to lift a finger to defend any of our allies because it's too important to follow the lead of the idiot American hippies that helped put him in office.


what's funny is that the original hippies were apart of the peace movement; which was almost entirely funded by the KGB.
 
2014-03-03 07:26:46 PM

SunsetLament: Mrtraveler01: SunsetLament: I think Obama should fart some rainbows and fix everything.  Weren't we all told the entire world loved him and that they'd be falling all over themselves to follow his lead once he took office?

Yes we can!

So what should we have done instead?

Not signal to the world that the United States isn't going to lift a finger to defend any of our allies because it's too important to follow the lead of the idiot American hippies that helped put him in office.


Wait...when did the goddam Ukranians become our allies?!??
 
2014-03-03 07:27:06 PM

Mentat: We'll see.  China has always been very leery about encouraging independence movements and they hung Putin out to dry during the Georgia crisis.  If the West pushes things, then we'll see how general the agreement is.


K. So absent the ucraine (or how ever it's, spelled, iphone just wanted to correct to 'curtain') starts lobbing ICBMs why should I care again? I mean other than being white-ish they seem to have a much lower give-a-fark factor than most other currently active hostile inter/intra-national wars with way better PR firms.

Srsly. Why do I care again?
 
2014-03-03 07:29:09 PM
Honestly, I don't see what the big deal is either.
 
2014-03-03 07:29:35 PM

Mrtraveler01: SunsetLament: Mrtraveler01: SunsetLament: I think Obama should fart some rainbows and fix everything.  Weren't we all told the entire world loved him and that they'd be falling all over themselves to follow his lead once he took office?

Yes we can!

So what should we have done instead?

Not signal to the world that the United States isn't going to lift a finger to defend any of our allies because it's too important to follow the lead of the idiot American hippies that helped put him in office.

Once again, offering no solution. Typical conservative. ;)

I ask again, what should have been the solution.


Oh I have a solution: Don't posture to the world that your ideology's foundation is "being a gigantic pussy because you might break a nail if you're forced to do what's right."
 
2014-03-03 07:31:05 PM

TheOther: SunsetLament: Mrtraveler01: SunsetLament: I think Obama should fart some rainbows and fix everything.  Weren't we all told the entire world loved him and that they'd be falling all over themselves to follow his lead once he took office?

Yes we can!

So what should we have done instead?

Not signal to the world that the United States isn't going to lift a finger to defend any of our allies because it's too important to follow the lead of the idiot American hippies that helped put him in office.

Wait...when did the goddam Ukranians become our allies?!??


1994
 
2014-03-03 07:32:23 PM

SunsetLament: Mrtraveler01: SunsetLament: Mrtraveler01: SunsetLament: I think Obama should fart some rainbows and fix everything.  Weren't we all told the entire world loved him and that they'd be falling all over themselves to follow his lead once he took office?

Yes we can!

So what should we have done instead?

Not signal to the world that the United States isn't going to lift a finger to defend any of our allies because it's too important to follow the lead of the idiot American hippies that helped put him in office.

Once again, offering no solution. Typical conservative. ;)

I ask again, what should have been the solution.

Oh I have a solution: Don't posture to the world that your ideology's foundation is "being a gigantic pussy because you might break a nail if you're forced to do what's right."


Still nothing. I know its hard for conservatives to grasp such things but try...

What should have been done with Ukraine?
 
2014-03-03 07:34:36 PM

orclover: -what the fark is a kipper?


i.imgur.com

R.I.P. KIPPER THE DOG

/Tiger's a douchebag
 
2014-03-03 07:34:44 PM
I'll admit, liberals are the most fun right at the moment when they realize the obvious results of their ideology flourishing is that everything goes to shiat.  It's a shame that everything has to actually go to shiat for them to realize it.  It's also a shame that they have to pretend they were not responsible in any way when it happens, too.

Thanks liberals - you're both hilarious and farking terrible.
 
2014-03-03 07:34:45 PM
So, if we commence with Cold War II: Electric Bugaloo, does that mean that the weapons systems we were going to cancel because they were designed to fight the cold war, will no longer be cancelled?

Maybe not the U2, but certainly the A10, right?
 
2014-03-03 07:34:55 PM

Frank N Stein: SunsetLament: Mrtraveler01: SunsetLament: I think Obama should fart some rainbows and fix everything.  Weren't we all told the entire world loved him and that they'd be falling all over themselves to follow his lead once he took office?

Yes we can!

So what should we have done instead?

Not signal to the world that the United States isn't going to lift a finger to defend any of our allies because it's too important to follow the lead of the idiot American hippies that helped put him in office.

what's funny is that the original hippies were apart of the peace movement; which was almost entirely funded by the KGB.


what's funny.. and sad...is the Republicans are now toxic because of THEIR big government social issues...
 
2014-03-03 07:35:54 PM

SuperNinjaToad: Looks like Obama will make the the G8 to be the G6 pretty soon then!


That would have everyone feeling so fly.
 
2014-03-03 07:35:56 PM

Tillmaster: orclover: Ginnungagap42: TV's Vinnie: kidakita: Maybe the Brits will send in Harry Flashman to clear things up in the Crimea.

Screw that! It's time to call in ACE RIMMER!

[upload.wikimedia.org image 512x384]

What a guy!

"Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast!"

-what the fark is a kipper?

Too lazy to Google it?
In that case, a kipper is someone who is sleeping.


Kipper: something like a sardine or an anchovy. But more tasty than the former and less nasty than the latter. But they all come in cans.
 
2014-03-03 07:36:07 PM
1. If china really is onboard, then I suggest we lease a couple islands from Japan for a US military base
2. We immediately declare the no nuke provisions of Ukraine void as no one is honoring them, and sell them a dozen surplus nuclear missiles and launching systems....for $1 each.  Our way of saying "sorry that agreement about removing your nuclear weapons to protect your borders isnt working out"
 
2014-03-03 07:36:22 PM
The Reds will always stick together.
 
2014-03-03 07:36:54 PM
Hahaha, I love the "Military Strength" infographic. Feels like old times in Farkistan: CN.
 
2014-03-03 07:37:58 PM

assjuice: Honestly, I don't see what the big deal is either.


Ukraine is weak = Obama is weak = Palin should be president

Honestly, when people spoke out against a certain past administration's policies, they were terrorists. Now it's their civic duty not only to make the president seem like he doesn't have support, they want to make sure to undercut his position and make any strong action impossible vis-a-vis Germany and other wavering partners.

/David Kramer in particular needs to shut his blowhole
 
2014-03-03 07:39:29 PM

jim32rr: [cdn.washingtonexaminer.biz image 550x550]


What would you do? Please cite why you think your plan would work. Use historical examples.
 
2014-03-03 07:39:46 PM

SunsetLament: gigantic pussy


You realize your retarded tough-guy posturing view of US foreign relations actually makes the USA weaker, don't you?

Other nations know they can count upon the USA's fear of looking cowardly or indecisive because of retards like you screaming for intervention.

People like you are the reason that the USA gets stuck in quagmires like Vietnam and Iraq, and the reason for anti-American Islamic terror which was birthed in the coup in Iran in the 50's.

Back then, the British manipulated the USA into intervening by playing up the communist threat.

And still here you are, being manipulated again.
 
2014-03-03 07:40:36 PM
I'm trying to comprehend a universe where China would be offended by a large country annnexing a smaller country that declared itself independent while speaking the same language as the larger.

Would never happen unless China wanted a piece of the smaller...
 
2014-03-03 07:41:18 PM

Nick Nostril: The Reds will always stick together.


China aimed most of their warheads at the USSR, they absolutely hated each other
 
2014-03-03 07:41:24 PM

Nick Nostril: The Reds will always stick together.


I prefer the Cubs.
 
2014-03-03 07:43:10 PM

PC LOAD LETTER: jim32rr: [cdn.washingtonexaminer.biz image 550x550]

What would you do? Please cite why you think your plan would work. Use historical examples.


I think Obama should declare itty bitty economic sanctions, sort of like the itty bitty airstrike they were planning against Syria.
 
2014-03-03 07:43:37 PM

spamdog: SunsetLament: gigantic pussy

You realize your retarded tough-guy posturing view of US foreign relations actually makes the USA weaker, don't you?

Other nations know they can count upon the USA's fear of looking cowardly or indecisive because of retards like you screaming for intervention.

People like you are the reason that the USA gets stuck in quagmires like Vietnam and Iraq, and the reason for anti-American Islamic terror which was birthed in the coup in Iran in the 50's.

Back then, the British manipulated the USA into intervening by playing up the communist threat.

And still here you are, being manipulated again.


Ya know what really makes America look like a pussy?
filipspagnoli.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-03-03 07:43:52 PM

T-Servo: assjuice: Honestly, I don't see what the big deal is either.

Ukraine is weak = Obama is weak = Palin should be president


Also, if Obama HAD actually sent troops in, or did anything more than a strongly worded letter, he'd be Worse than Hitler because he'd be supporting the MUSLIM Tartars against the Russians. Y'know, like exactly what happened in Libya, Egypt and Syria.

I don't see why Republicans are so upset about Putin, either. I mean, he's a business-friendly, gay-hatin', liberal hatin' thug...Why SHOULDN'T they like him?

/Trick question: Republicans LOVE Putin, which is why they're making him out to be such a badass, instead of the corrupt, thuggish leader of a washed-up, crumbling ex-superpower that couldn't even get its shiat together enough to spruce up the Olympic host city.
//And if he honestly thinks he can take and hold Ukraine, let alone survive sanctions or a farking world war, you can add 'A complete dumbass' to the list of Putin's traits.
 
2014-03-03 07:44:02 PM

TheOther: SunsetLament: Mrtraveler01: SunsetLament: I think Obama should fart some rainbows and fix everything.  Weren't we all told the entire world loved him and that they'd be falling all over themselves to follow his lead once he took office?

Yes we can!

So what should we have done instead?

Not signal to the world that the United States isn't going to lift a finger to defend any of our allies because it's too important to follow the lead of the idiot American hippies that helped put him in office.

Wait...when did the goddam Ukranians become our allies?!??


Probably around the time they stopped selling arms to Iran.

/so, uh, never
 
2014-03-03 07:44:05 PM

SunsetLament: I'll admit, liberals are the most fun right at the moment when they realize the obvious results of their ideology flourishing is that everything goes to shiat.  It's a shame that everything has to actually go to shiat for them to realize it.  It's also a shame that they have to pretend they were not responsible in any way when it happens, too.

Thanks liberals - you're both hilarious and farking terrible.


God this is so weak. Dude, the Council of Troll Elders is going to banish you unless you pick your game up. Come on -- I believe in you. You're better than this.
 
2014-03-03 07:45:22 PM

orclover: Ginnungagap42: TV's Vinnie: kidakita: Maybe the Brits will send in Harry Flashman to clear things up in the Crimea.

Screw that! It's time to call in ACE RIMMER!

[upload.wikimedia.org image 512x384]

What a guy!

"Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast!"

-what the fark is a kipper?


A type of fish, traditionally had for breakfast in some places.

/The more you know
 
2014-03-03 07:45:58 PM

SunsetLament: I'll admit, liberals are the most fun right at the moment when they realize the obvious results of their ideology flourishing is that everything goes to shiat.  It's a shame that everything has to actually go to shiat for them to realize it.  It's also a shame that they have to pretend they were not responsible in any way when it happens, too.

Thanks liberals - you're both hilarious and farking terrible.


K. As a self admitted Libby lib mcLibtardy Libby. WTF R U TALKING ABOUT?????

Sure, war bad. Got that. But what does the US motherfarking A have to do with this? Giving or receiving? Why the fark do I care more or less about this than th multitudes of crap going on all over the world? Except we (the US motherfarking A) seems to have less to do with this than most other probs we stick our unneeded nose into?????

Really!
WHY DO I CARE! PLEASE. TELL ME.
 
2014-03-03 07:46:21 PM

vernonFL: Six hundred rode into the valley of death.
Cannons to the left of them
Cannons to the right
Into the valley of death rode the six hundred


The light brigade were run headlong into artillery they didn't see and, once they were defeated by their own orders more than anything else their commander had his negros prepare a fancy lunch to console himself.

That poem is a bit of fiction.
 
2014-03-03 07:46:31 PM
Seriously people even if Obama ordered troops to the Ukraine its very likely we would not yet have boots on the ground, it takes time to organize and set a line of supply and to build a coalition of nations to support the effort.

Seriously the only US Military assets that might have been able to respond by now is the US sixth fleet based in Naples Italy.

Any troops in Europe would need time to supply and permission would be needed to move through allied nations before they could roll for Ukraine.

A small force could be sent by air but not enough to do much of anything beside put Moscow on notice, provided once again we got okay to route through allied air space.
 
2014-03-03 07:48:03 PM

Greywar: 1. If china really is onboard, then I suggest we lease a couple islands from Japan for a US military base


We already do - we've had a couple of military installations there since WW2.

2. We immediately declare the no nuke provisions of Ukraine void as no one is honoring them, and sell them a dozen surplus nuclear missiles and launching systems....for $1 each.  Our way of saying "sorry that agreement about removing your nuclear weapons to protect your borders isnt working out"

You can't give nukes to a country that's about to be invaded by the Russians.  But we can actually stop dicking around and fill Poland and the Czech Republic full of missile defense systems ... and park a fleet in the Black Sea.
 
2014-03-03 07:48:44 PM

SunsetLament: I'll admit, liberals are the most fun right at the moment when they realize the obvious results of their ideology flourishing is that everything goes to shiat.  It's a shame that everything has to actually go to shiat for them to realize it.  It's also a shame that they have to pretend they were not responsible in any way when it happens, too.

Thanks liberals - you're both hilarious and farking terrible.


I'm guessing you're a conservative and you vote Republican?

/amirite?
//what do I win?
 
2014-03-03 07:50:24 PM

Serious Post on Serious Thread: SunsetLament: I'll admit, liberals are the most fun right at the moment when they realize the obvious results of their ideology flourishing is that everything goes to shiat.  It's a shame that everything has to actually go to shiat for them to realize it.  It's also a shame that they have to pretend they were not responsible in any way when it happens, too.

Thanks liberals - you're both hilarious and farking terrible.

K. As a self admitted Libby lib mcLibtardy Libby. WTF R U TALKING ABOUT?????

Sure, war bad. Got that. But what does the US motherfarking A have to do with this? Giving or receiving? Why the fark do I care more or less about this than th multitudes of crap going on all over the world? Except we (the US motherfarking A) seems to have less to do with this than most other probs we stick our unneeded nose into?????

Really!
WHY DO I CARE! PLEASE. TELL ME.


Poland. Estonia. Lithuania. Latvia. Sudetenland.
 
2014-03-03 07:50:27 PM
weknowmemes.com
 
2014-03-03 07:51:06 PM

WorldCitizen: China just wants to be able to use that same excuse on the Russian Far East in 30 to 50 years. "We're just moving in our troops to protect the Chinese people in Russia from X excuse".


I've played that game....


upload.wikimedia.org

/ too bad my CD is scratched up...
// probably wouldn't run well on Windows 7 anyways...
 
2014-03-03 07:51:15 PM

Ow! That was my feelings!: spamdog: SunsetLament: gigantic pussy

You realize your retarded tough-guy posturing view of US foreign relations actually makes the USA weaker, don't you?

Other nations know they can count upon the USA's fear of looking cowardly or indecisive because of retards like you screaming for intervention.

People like you are the reason that the USA gets stuck in quagmires like Vietnam and Iraq, and the reason for anti-American Islamic terror which was birthed in the coup in Iran in the 50's.

Back then, the British manipulated the USA into intervening by playing up the communist threat.

And still here you are, being manipulated again.

Ya know what really makes America look like a pussy?
[filipspagnoli.files.wordpress.com image 850x635]


Our limp wrist President flailing his purse at Putin?
 
2014-03-03 07:52:44 PM

Ow! That was my feelings!: Ya know what really makes America look like a pussy?


The only reason that you guys look like pussies when people who hate America are killing other people who hate America, is because you didn't supersize the popcorn.
 
2014-03-03 07:53:15 PM

SunsetLament: Ow! That was my feelings!: spamdog: SunsetLament: gigantic pussy

You realize your retarded tough-guy posturing view of US foreign relations actually makes the USA weaker, don't you?

Other nations know they can count upon the USA's fear of looking cowardly or indecisive because of retards like you screaming for intervention.

People like you are the reason that the USA gets stuck in quagmires like Vietnam and Iraq, and the reason for anti-American Islamic terror which was birthed in the coup in Iran in the 50's.

Back then, the British manipulated the USA into intervening by playing up the communist threat.

And still here you are, being manipulated again.

Ya know what really makes America look like a pussy?
[filipspagnoli.files.wordpress.com image 850x635]

Our limp wrist President flailing his purse at Putin?


War is the answer.

Im guessing thats your solution although you're too chickenshiat to just come out and say that.
 
2014-03-03 07:54:05 PM

zzrhardy: Ow! That was my feelings!: Ya know what really makes America look like a pussy?

The only reason that you guys look like pussies when people who hate America are killing other people who hate America, is because you didn't supersize the popcorn.


Shut up Icetard, nobody cares what you guys think.
 
2014-03-03 07:54:21 PM

Ow! That was my feelings!: It's 1979 all over again.
[www.bizpacreview.com image 530x260]


www.ramascreen.com

I'm not overly fond of what comes next
 
2014-03-03 07:55:36 PM
Somebody doubled the ration of retard juice in the freeper cages this morning I see.
 
2014-03-03 07:56:54 PM

SunsetLament: I'll admit, liberals are the most fun right at the moment when they realize the obvious results of their ideology flourishing is that everything goes to shiat.  It's a shame that everything has to actually go to shiat for them to realize it.  It's also a shame that they have to pretend they were not responsible in any way when it happens, too.

Thanks liberals - you're both hilarious and farking terrible.


You're funny.
 
2014-03-03 07:57:21 PM

gdb.rferl.org


"Hello, Barry?  Is it too late to get Hillary back?"

 
2014-03-03 07:57:26 PM

Ow! That was my feelings!: It's 1979 all over again.
[www.bizpacreview.com image 530x260]


Been saying all along that a repeat of the Carter Administration is a "best case scenario" for Obama.

/we may be headed for the ultimate worst case scenario
 
2014-03-03 07:58:31 PM

Animatronik: PC LOAD LETTER: jim32rr: [cdn.washingtonexaminer.biz image 550x550]

What would you do? Please cite why you think your plan would work. Use historical examples.

I think Obama should declare itty bitty economic sanctions, sort of like the itty bitty airstrike they were planning against Syria.


Large sanctions and removing Russia from the G8 is in the works. What else? What would you do differently? So far, you agree with him.
 
2014-03-03 07:58:51 PM

Tatterdemalian: Ow! That was my feelings!: It's 1979 all over again.
[www.bizpacreview.com image 530x260]

Been saying all along that a repeat of the Carter Administration is a "best case scenario" for Obama.

/we may be headed for the ultimate worst case scenario


Hey! I voted against the Mormon, don't blame me.
 
2014-03-03 08:00:51 PM
Russia and China are on good terms.   Iran is getting back a bit of its strength because the west have caved and eased sanctions.    Nations are making some power moves.

But fear not because the US has Chucky Hagel?    John Kerry?   Barack Obama and Joe Biden ?

Dear God the US is in trouble.
 
2014-03-03 08:02:15 PM

Serious Post on Serious Thread: Really!WHY DO I CARE! PLEASE. TELL ME.


It's probably a survival instinct. One of the many primitive instincts the less enlightened never outgrow.

/it goes away if you smoke enough pot and drink enough beer
 
2014-03-03 08:02:32 PM
As smart as he is, I don't think Obama or his team really have the international game down. We involved ourselves in Libya, with far less reason than even for Iraq or especially Afghanistan, against someone who had already surrendered his major military programs to us, and now there's no reliability in surrendering to the U.S. as an agreement. He stood up for protecting Syrian civilians from chemical weapons, then when Syria (or somebody) apparently deployed them, we dicked around until Putin came in and settled the issue to some extent. Now we have Ukraine's quasi-revolution leading to Russia getting militarily involved, an agreement with Ukraine that goes bad for us whether we honor it or lawyer our way out of it, and China flexing its muscles and looking hungrily at Japanese territory for its own ends.

Applying force over Ukraine could lead to a major war. Not applying force could lead to wider conflicts, and a major war.

I'll just have to trust that President Obama makes his decisions for the right reasons, since any one of them could go south in a bad way. But we don't have the credibility to pull off denunciations, sanctions, or ultimatums now.
 
2014-03-03 08:04:34 PM

Ow! That was my feelings!: Serious Post on Serious Thread: SunsetLament: I'll admit, liberals are the most fun right at the moment when they realize the obvious results of their ideology flourishing is that everything goes to shiat.  It's a shame that everything has to actually go to shiat for them to realize it.  It's also a shame that they have to pretend they were not responsible in any way when it happens, too.

Thanks liberals - you're both hilarious and farking terrible.

K. As a self admitted Libby lib mcLibtardy Libby. WTF R U TALKING ABOUT?????

Sure, war bad. Got that. But what does the US motherfarking A have to do with this? Giving or receiving? Why the fark do I care more or less about this than th multitudes of crap going on all over the world? Except we (the US motherfarking A) seems to have less to do with this than most other probs we stick our unneeded nose into?????

Really!
WHY DO I CARE! PLEASE. TELL ME.

Poland. Estonia. Lithuania. Latvia. Sudetenland.


K. So I'm totes a prick and all. But NONE OF THOSE COUNTRIES MAKE ME GIVE A shiat. (Except maybe Poland, bc vodka). I mean honestly, if u & yrs r affected by this my condolences are sincere. But none of those places mean more or less shiat to me as an American than all the other farked places in the world. Except they kinda mean a little less cause I don't think the US has directly contributed to their particular variety of farked up ness lately.

Again. Disabuse me of my ignorance. But this really seems like some regional BS I don't give a shiat about (ie, we got our own probs, stop farking w others).
 
2014-03-03 08:06:03 PM
Kipper launching a nuke...

www.arranalexander.co.uk
 
2014-03-03 08:07:46 PM

Boojum2k: Applying force over Ukraine could lead to a major war. Not applying force could lead to wider conflicts, and a major war.


genius
 
2014-03-03 08:07:48 PM

Serious Post on Serious Thread: Ow! That was my feelings!: Serious Post on Serious Thread: SunsetLament: I'll admit, liberals are the most fun right at the moment when they realize the obvious results of their ideology flourishing is that everything goes to shiat.  It's a shame that everything has to actually go to shiat for them to realize it.  It's also a shame that they have to pretend they were not responsible in any way when it happens, too.

Thanks liberals - you're both hilarious and farking terrible.

K. As a self admitted Libby lib mcLibtardy Libby. WTF R U TALKING ABOUT?????

Sure, war bad. Got that. But what does the US motherfarking A have to do with this? Giving or receiving? Why the fark do I care more or less about this than th multitudes of crap going on all over the world? Except we (the US motherfarking A) seems to have less to do with this than most other probs we stick our unneeded nose into?????

Really!
WHY DO I CARE! PLEASE. TELL ME.

Poland. Estonia. Lithuania. Latvia. Sudetenland.

K. So I'm totes a prick and all. But NONE OF THOSE COUNTRIES MAKE ME GIVE A shiat. (Except maybe Poland, bc vodka). I mean honestly, if u & yrs r affected by this my condolences are sincere. But none of those places mean more or less shiat to me as an American than all the other farked places in the world. Except they kinda mean a little less cause I don't think the US has directly contributed to their particular variety of farked up ness lately.

Again. Disabuse me of my ignorance. But this really seems like some regional BS I don't give a shiat about (ie, we got our own probs, stop farking w others).


Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. - a certain fascist apologist
 
2014-03-03 08:08:16 PM

LordJiro: And if he honestly thinks he can take and hold Ukraine, let alone survive sanctions or a farking world war, you can add 'A complete dumbass' to the list of Putin's traits.


Maybe not the whole of Ukraine, but he can sure foment a civil war.  At worst he'd split the country with a client state in Crimea.  At best he'd keep the whole damned thing as a client state.  He's banking on the fact that nobody outside of Russia and the Ukraine will do anything meaningful, and he's right.  

Nobody's going to get into a shooting war over Ukraine except the Ukrainians.  And nobody outside of the Ukraine is going to do anything but arm the Ukrainians.
 
2014-03-03 08:09:40 PM
I'm a lib. Sanction the fark out of them. I'd love to see peace bought, and humanity forced to evolve beyond petty violence because it's bad for business.

Farking Star Trek got it wrong. We're more Ferengi than Federation.

/hopeful that changes for the better in the future, but would be satisfied with it working in the present
 
2014-03-03 08:10:20 PM

toadist: Russia and China are on good terms.   Iran is getting back a bit of its strength because the west have caved and eased sanctions.    Nations are making some power moves.

But fear not because the US has Chucky Hagel?    John Kerry?   Barack Obama and Joe Biden ?

Dear God the US is in trouble.


America and China are also on good terms, and China's economy depends WAY too much on America for them to risk sanctions or a war. Russia is a crumbling, corrupt shiathole that couldn't even put on a good front for the Olympics. Iran's weapons programs are being dismantled under international supervision, and the sanctions will go right back to full strength if they don't comply. Furthermore, pro-West sentiment in Iran is continuing to grow, which is why the rulers of Iran were forced to replace their lunatic president with a relatively moderate one..

But nope, BOMB EVERYTHING! Kill all who don't behave EXACTLY as America thinks they should! We don't want America to look like a PUSSY!
 
2014-03-03 08:10:34 PM

Babwa Wawa: LordJiro: And if he honestly thinks he can take and hold Ukraine, let alone survive sanctions or a farking world war, you can add 'A complete dumbass' to the list of Putin's traits.

Maybe not the whole of Ukraine, but he can sure foment a civil war.  At worst he'd split the country with a client state in Crimea.  At best he'd keep the whole damned thing as a client state.  He's banking on the fact that nobody outside of Russia and the Ukraine will do anything meaningful, and he's right.  

Nobody's going to get into a shooting war over Ukraine except the Ukrainians.  And nobody outside of the Ukraine is going to do anything but arm the Ukrainians.


Ding. Ding. Ding.

He can do it because he (and everyone else in the world) knows nobody will lift a finger to stop him.
 
2014-03-03 08:10:50 PM

spamdog: Boojum2k: Applying force over Ukraine could lead to a major war. Not applying force could lead to wider conflicts, and a major war.

genius


It doesn't take one to recognize a damned-if-we-do, damned-if-we-don't scenario. Either call, not just the use of force, can have dangerous long-term consequences.
 
2014-03-03 08:11:04 PM

Babwa Wawa: LordJiro: And if he honestly thinks he can take and hold Ukraine, let alone survive sanctions or a farking world war, you can add 'A complete dumbass' to the list of Putin's traits.

Maybe not the whole of Ukraine, but he can sure foment a civil war.  At worst he'd split the country with a client state in Crimea.  At best he'd keep the whole damned thing as a client state.  He's banking on the fact that nobody outside of Russia and the Ukraine will do anything meaningful, and he's right.  

Nobody's going to get into a shooting war over Ukraine except the Ukrainians.  And nobody outside of the Ukraine is going to do anything but arm the Ukrainians.


What he's doing is giving Ukrainians an common enemy against whom to unite, especially after the Russians start shooting.
 
2014-03-03 08:11:05 PM

Serious Post on Serious Thread: Ow! That was my feelings!: Serious Post on Serious Thread: SunsetLament: I'll admit, liberals are the most fun right at the moment when they realize the obvious results of their ideology flourishing is that everything goes to shiat.  It's a shame that everything has to actually go to shiat for them to realize it.  It's also a shame that they have to pretend they were not responsible in any way when it happens, too.

Thanks liberals - you're both hilarious and farking terrible.

K. As a self admitted Libby lib mcLibtardy Libby. WTF R U TALKING ABOUT?????

Sure, war bad. Got that. But what does the US motherfarking A have to do with this? Giving or receiving? Why the fark do I care more or less about this than th multitudes of crap going on all over the world? Except we (the US motherfarking A) seems to have less to do with this than most other probs we stick our unneeded nose into?????

Really!
WHY DO I CARE! PLEASE. TELL ME.

Poland. Estonia. Lithuania. Latvia. Sudetenland.

K. So I'm totes a prick and all. But NONE OF THOSE COUNTRIES MAKE ME GIVE A shiat. (Except maybe Poland, bc vodka). I mean honestly, if u & yrs r affected by this my condolences are sincere. But none of those places mean more or less shiat to me as an American than all the other farked places in the world. Except they kinda mean a little less cause I don't think the US has directly contributed to their particular variety of farked up ness lately.

Again. Disabuse me of my ignorance. But this really seems like some regional BS I don't give a shiat about (ie, we got our own probs, stop farking w others).


NATO.
 
2014-03-03 08:11:34 PM
Once again to all the hard right, war mongering, "it's Obama's fault"-ers....tool up and get your ass to the Ukraine.  You obviously have a solution in mind and know better than diplomats and the President himself.   So get to it, cowards.
 
2014-03-03 08:12:06 PM
I find it funny that so many of the conservative analyses of the trouble we're now in, focus on why Obama is at fault and don't really say anything about Putin being involved.

Also note that the US is pushing for strong measures like trade sanctions (Germany is against that ) or cutting Russia out of the international banking system (UK is against that), but we need the whole farking EU to agree to those stronger measures. Those US diplomats the other week who said 'Fark the EU!' were just ahead of the game, I guess.

/but of course Bush would've gotten their support, everyone in Europe loved GW
 
2014-03-03 08:16:20 PM

meatofmystery: Once again to all the hard right, war mongering, "it's Obama's fault"-ers....tool up and get your ass to the Ukraine.  You obviously have a solution in mind and know better than diplomats and the President himself.   So get to it, cowards.


media.nbcmiami.com
 
2014-03-03 08:16:56 PM

meatofmystery: Once again to all the hard right, war mongering, "it's Obama's fault"-ers....tool up and get your ass to the Ukraine.  You obviously have a solution in mind and know better than diplomats and the President himself.   So get to it, cowards.


Just remember to burn your passports once you get there.
 
2014-03-03 08:17:50 PM

T-Servo: I find it funny that so many of the conservative analyses of the trouble we're now in, focus on why Obama is at fault and don't really say anything about Putin being involved.


Obama is our President, we chose him to lead this country, and the honorary title of "leader of the free world" isn't supposed to be a joke. Putin is a challenge to be met, and a dangerous one. It's not like he was an unknown in 2008. You want to be President of the United States? Be able to stand up to the worst of the world, or don't try for the job.

President Obama is trying, at least. He's a lot stronger on domestic and social issues, particularly now, but this is not his area of expertise.
 
2014-03-03 08:17:55 PM

SunsetLament: I'll admit, liberals are the most fun right at the moment when they realize the obvious results of their ideology flourishing is that everything goes to shiat.  It's a shame that everything has to actually go to shiat for them to realize it.  It's also a shame that they have to pretend they were not responsible in any way when it happens, too.

Thanks liberals - you're both hilarious and farking terrible.


Let's see if I can post links again yet:

If that didn't work, google "UCLA Student Has Total Emotional Breakdown After Anti-Israel Measure Fails" for some more terrible hilarity caught on video.
 
2014-03-03 08:22:03 PM

Boojum2k: T-Servo: I find it funny that so many of the conservative analyses of the trouble we're now in, focus on why Obama is at fault and don't really say anything about Putin being involved.

Obama is our President, we chose him to lead this country, and the honorary title of "leader of the free world" isn't supposed to be a joke. Putin is a challenge to be met, and a dangerous one. It's not like he was an unknown in 2008. You want to be President of the United States? Be able to stand up to the worst of the world, or don't try for the job.

President Obama is trying, at least. He's a lot stronger on domestic and social issues, particularly now, but this is not his area of expertise.


Obviously. But stand up to the bully now, or pay a way worse price later.
 
2014-03-03 08:22:03 PM

Boojum2k: As smart as he is, I don't think Obama or his team really have the international game down. We involved ourselves in Libya, with far less reason than even for Iraq or especially Afghanistan, against someone who had already surrendered his major military programs to us, and now there's no reliability in surrendering to the U.S. as an agreement. He stood up for protecting Syrian civilians from chemical weapons, then when Syria (or somebody) apparently deployed them, we dicked around until Putin came in and settled the issue to some extent. Now we have Ukraine's quasi-revolution leading to Russia getting militarily involved, an agreement with Ukraine that goes bad for us whether we honor it or lawyer our way out of it, and China flexing its muscles and looking hungrily at Japanese territory for its own ends.

Applying force over Ukraine could lead to a major war. Not applying force could lead to wider conflicts, and a major war.

I'll just have to trust that President Obama makes his decisions for the right reasons, since any one of them could go south in a bad way. But we don't have the credibility to pull off denunciations, sanctions, or ultimatums now.


I still don't know what you think O could have done differently. I think his big blunder was to say he would do anything at all in Syria. Russia and China clearly indicated they would oppose (militarily) any intervention. That pretty much means we could do nothing if we didn't want a shooting war with 2 nuclear-armed nations. In Ukraine, we can levy sanctions, but literally anything else would be balls-on-head retarded. Same if China takes those uninhabited islands. We won't do crap. For comparison look at North Korea. They have kidnapped and killed US servicemembers and citizens since the Korean war. What did we do? Absolutely nothing. We know where the lines are. We will only attack weaker nations. We won't go head-to-head with Russia or China. It would ruin the global economy.
 
2014-03-03 08:23:48 PM

T-Servo: I find it funny that so many of the conservative analyses of the trouble we're now in, focus on why Obama is at fault and don't really say anything about Putin being involved.


What do you want the conservative analysis of Putin to be?  "We told you so." = there you go, there's your analysis.  Putin is what conservatives said he is - a person focused on restoring the dominance of the USSR and getting back to the uber-powerful position they were in circa the Carter Administration.  Every conservative knows this and laugh at liberals because they like to pretend it isn't so.  That's why someone as "dumb" as Sarah Palin can point out liberal rule of the United States would result in something like the Ukraine being invaded at Russia's earliest opportunity ... and promptly get laughed at by the liberal intelligentsia.

We told you so.
 
2014-03-03 08:24:50 PM

i2.cdn.turner.com



"Perhaps you'll consider the cinema of the Ukraine ..."

 
2014-03-03 08:25:36 PM

Tatterdemalian: SunsetLament: I'll admit, liberals are the most fun right at the moment when they realize the obvious results of their ideology flourishing is that everything goes to shiat.  It's a shame that everything has to actually go to shiat for them to realize it.  It's also a shame that they have to pretend they were not responsible in any way when it happens, too.

Thanks liberals - you're both hilarious and farking terrible.

Let's see if I can post links again yet:

If that didn't work, google "UCLA Student Has Total Emotional Breakdown After Anti-Israel Measure Fails" for some more terrible hilarity caught on video.


Holy shiat that's hilarious and sad.
 
2014-03-03 08:28:06 PM

SunsetLament: T-Servo: I find it funny that so many of the conservative analyses of the trouble we're now in, focus on why Obama is at fault and don't really say anything about Putin being involved.

What do you want the conservative analysis of Putin to be?  "We told you so." = there you go, there's your analysis.  Putin is what conservatives said he is - a person focused on restoring the dominance of the USSR and getting back to the uber-powerful position they were in circa the Carter Administration.  Every conservative knows this and laugh at liberals because they like to pretend it isn't so.  That's why someone as "dumb" as Sarah Palin can point out liberal rule of the United States would result in something like the Ukraine being invaded at Russia's earliest opportunity ... and promptly get laughed at by the liberal intelligentsia.

We told you so.


You mean the Sarah Palin that blamed the invasion of Georgia on Barack Obama, despite it happening under "Putin has a good soul" Dubya?
 
2014-03-03 08:29:13 PM
So many people ignorantly armchair politicking, while simultaneously ignorantly mocking politicians. It's....it's beautiful.
www.comicsreporter.com
 
2014-03-03 08:30:03 PM

Ow! That was my feelings!: Serious Post on Serious Thread: SunsetLament: I'll admit, liberals are the most fun right at the moment when they realize the obvious results of their ideology flourishing is that everything goes to shiat.  It's a shame that everything has to actually go to shiat for them to realize it.  It's also a shame that they have to pretend they were not responsible in any way when it happens, too.

Thanks liberals - you're both hilarious and farking terrible.

K. As a self admitted Libby lib mcLibtardy Libby. WTF R U TALKING ABOUT?????

Sure, war bad. Got that. But what does the US motherfarking A have to do with this? Giving or receiving? Why the fark do I care more or less about this than th multitudes of crap going on all over the world? Except we (the US motherfarking A) seems to have less to do with this than most other probs we stick our unneeded nose into?????

Really!
WHY DO I CARE! PLEASE. TELL ME.

Poland. Estonia. Lithuania. Latvia. Sudetenland.


Sing along
 
2014-03-03 08:32:16 PM

HairyNevus: So many people ignorantly armchair politicking, while simultaneously ignorantly mocking politicians. It's....it's beautiful.
[www.comicsreporter.com image 335x327]


Yeah, it's amusing to see all of the 5 star generals of the internet itching to start world war 3 from their living rooms.
 
2014-03-03 08:32:20 PM

Boojum2k: President Obama is trying, at least. He's a lot stronger on domestic and social issues, particularly now, but this is not his area of expertise.


I agree that the focus is domestic, just like Bush Sr was a master at diplomacy but had a tin ear for domestic concerns.

I'm just raging at GOP officials who go on air or print to blame the invasion on Obama for being weak, as if Putin's decisions (which most people did not expect) were not his own. The example is David Kramer, who was in charge of the Russia desk at the State Dept during GW Bush's terms, wrote a piece in the WashPost on Sunday and today was at the Atlantic Council in DC, grandstanding in front of the Moldovan PM about "US is weak! NATO must fight or the world will end!" (Of course, he has no answer to why Russia invaded Georgia in 2008.)

Yes, this is a test, but sniping in advance by McCain, Graham, Kramer, et al doesn't help when the US has to look strong. In our military contingency planning (much of what I do), we honestly don't care most times why the situation got bad, we just have to deal with it. So yes, this is a test for Obama, but playing politics really doesn't help.

And I'm especially sensitive about Crimea, since I was to help lead a NATO training mission there in May for the same officers now under threat by Russians. Of course that mission is now scrubbed, and we've been scrambling even to figure out if everyone is still on the grid (they're not). So when Sen Graham goes on TV to blame the invasion on Obama... I get really, really upset.

/rant off
 
2014-03-03 08:33:30 PM

vernonFL: Six hundred rode into the valley of death.
Cannons to the left of them
Cannons to the right
Into the valley of death rode the six hundred


Jeffrey?
 
2014-03-03 08:34:05 PM

spawn73: Submittard doing what submittard does best.

Is Russia or China going to nuke you? No they're not.


Fark has exactly two methods of attempting to comprehend international relations.  Option 1 is to shiat its pants in fear of nuclear war every time any country anywhere (outside of Africa) does anything.  Option 2 is to demand strong military action that had better be both free and devoid of any casualties.  Anything else is met with long streamers of confused drool and/or rage.
 
2014-03-03 08:34:40 PM
T-Servo:

Yes, this is a test, but sniping in advance by McCain, Graham, Kramer, et al doesn't help when the US has to look strong. In our military contingency planning (much of what I do), we honestly don't care most times why the situation got bad, we just have to deal with it. So yes, this is a test for Obama, but playing politics really doesn't help.

It's odd how when they do this it's them being Real Americans but daring to question why we were going to war with Iraq was considered treason.
 
2014-03-03 08:34:40 PM

SunsetLament: He can do it because he (and everyone else in the world) knows nobody will lift a finger to stop him.


What precicely should we do?

And would you be willing to see your taxes go up to pay for it? Would you be willing to return to the days of the draft? Of rationing? Of turning the U.S. economy into a war economy and changing every aspect of your life to support a war?

How much are you, personally, willing to sacrifice? After Pearl Harbor, Americans were willing to sacrifice just about everything to see things set right. After 9/11 Americans were willing to go shopping, and if things happened to be set right, that was fine, as long as we didn't have to actually pay for it or put up with any meaningful sacrifices. Oh, and if we could have lower taxes while you're out spending trillions because, really, it's unfair to make us pay for those wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Quite frankly, one of Bush's biggest mistakes after 9/11 was telling Americans that they didn't have to sacrifice. The Iraq invasion was sold on the idea that the war would be cheap, fast, and most importantly, easy. The idea that it would be a decade long slog, difficult, and expensive was dismissed as unpatriotic. All we heard was how easy it was going to be, that no sacrifice would be needed.

When it comes to a big crisis like this, these days America only cares if it doesn't really cost us all that much. So again, I ask, how much are you willing to sacrifice before you decide that it's not that big a deal?
 
2014-03-03 08:40:17 PM

vernonFL: Six hundred rode into the valley of death.
Cannons to the left of them
Cannons to the right
Into the valley of death rode the six hundred


Goddammit. Get it right you farking 'tard.

Half a league half a league, 
Half a league onward. 
All in the valley of Death 
Rode the six hundred. 
"Forward, the Light Brigade. 
Charge for the guns," he said.
Into the valley of Death 
Rode the six hundred. 

"Forward, the Light Brigade."
Was there a man dismayed? 
Not though the soldier knew 
Some one had blundered. 
Theirs not to make reply, 
Theirs not to reason why, 
Theirs but to do and die. 
Into the valley of Death 
Rode the six hundred. 

Cannon to right of them, 
Cannon to left of them, 
Cannon in front of them 
Volleyed and thundered.  
Stormed at with shot and shell, 
Boldly they rode and well, 
Into the jaws of Death, 
Into the mouth of Hell 
Rode the six hundred. 

Flashed all their sabers bare, 
Flashed as they turned in air 
Sabring the gunners there, 
Charging an army while 
All the world wondered.
Plunged in the battery smoke 
Right through the line they broke 
Cossack and Russian 
Reeled from the saber stroke,
Shattered and sundered. 
Then they rode back,
but not 
Not the six hundred. 

Cannon to right of them, 
Cannon to left of them, 
Cannon behind them 
Volleyed and thundered.
Stormed at with shot and shell, 
While horse and hero fell, 
They that had fought so well 
Came through the jaws of death, 
Back from the mouth of hell, 
All that was left of them, 
Left of six hundred. 

When can their glory fade? 
Oh the wild charge they made.
All the world wondered.
Honor the charge they made,
Honor the Light Brigade, 
Noble six hundred.


Even if you were so uncultured as to NOT have learned that in HS, you could have googled it and not screwed up your quote.
 
2014-03-03 08:41:12 PM

soporific: What precicely should we do?


Oh, there's nothing we can do that The One would let us do. He's in power, not the neocon warmongers.

What we should have done? Supported the Iranian Green Revolution. Failing that, we should have refused to support the Muslim Brotherhood's Arab Spring.

Since we already did both those things, it's a bit too late to worry any more. We're already off the cliff, and the only thing left is for us neocons to say "I told you so" until we hit rock bottom.

/but keep on blaming the Republicans
//that's the only thing you can do
///even though it will make picking up the pieces more difficult, what with all your accusing the people who know which pieces really matter of causing the crash all along
 
2014-03-03 08:42:38 PM

soporific: SunsetLament: He can do it because he (and everyone else in the world) knows nobody will lift a finger to stop him.

What precicely should we do?

And would you be willing to see your taxes go up to pay for it? Would you be willing to return to the days of the draft? Of rationing? Of turning the U.S. economy into a war economy and changing every aspect of your life to support a war?

How much are you, personally, willing to sacrifice? After Pearl Harbor, Americans were willing to sacrifice just about everything to see things set right. After 9/11 Americans were willing to go shopping, and if things happened to be set right, that was fine, as long as we didn't have to actually pay for it or put up with any meaningful sacrifices. Oh, and if we could have lower taxes while you're out spending trillions because, really, it's unfair to make us pay for those wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Quite frankly, one of Bush's biggest mistakes after 9/11 was telling Americans that they didn't have to sacrifice. The Iraq invasion was sold on the idea that the war would be cheap, fast, and most importantly, easy. The idea that it would be a decade long slog, difficult, and expensive was dismissed as unpatriotic. All we heard was how easy it was going to be, that no sacrifice would be needed.

When it comes to a big crisis like this, these days America only cares if it doesn't really cost us all that much. So again, I ask, how much are you willing to sacrifice before you decide that it's not that big a deal?


The terms of winning aren't reasonable any longer. There is no real point to conventional warfare anymore outside acting as world police or to achieve tactical objectives. You want to win the game? Sit back and watch everyone else blow themselves up and watch their economy tank. Walk behind the ramshackle nations and revitalize them. It is a war of attrition and a marathon, not a sprint - long gone are those days.
 
2014-03-03 08:45:59 PM

soporific: SunsetLament: He can do it because he (and everyone else in the world) knows nobody will lift a finger to stop him.

What precicely should we do?

And would you be willing to see your taxes go up to pay for it? Would you be willing to return to the days of the draft? Of rationing? Of turning the U.S. economy into a war economy and changing every aspect of your life to support a war?

How much are you, personally, willing to sacrifice? After Pearl Harbor, Americans were willing to sacrifice just about everything to see things set right. After 9/11 Americans were willing to go shopping, and if things happened to be set right, that was fine, as long as we didn't have to actually pay for it or put up with any meaningful sacrifices. Oh, and if we could have lower taxes while you're out spending trillions because, really, it's unfair to make us pay for those wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Quite frankly, one of Bush's biggest mistakes after 9/11 was telling Americans that they didn't have to sacrifice. The Iraq invasion was sold on the idea that the war would be cheap, fast, and most importantly, easy. The idea that it would be a decade long slog, difficult, and expensive was dismissed as unpatriotic. All we heard was how easy it was going to be, that no sacrifice would be needed.

When it comes to a big crisis like this, these days America only cares if it doesn't really cost us all that much. So again, I ask, how much are you willing to sacrifice before you decide that it's not that big a deal?


Oh, what a whiny bunch of crap.

This is what I would do as POTUS. Total Russian energy embargo! Dragging every ally, especially and importantly must include 100% of the Euros! Even if it means higher gasoline prices in the US, help the Euros with their natural gas needs (summers coming anyway...). Full military support for NATO border allies, especially the Polish. And squeeze the Russians on the banking front. Economic sanctions are a real weapon that could be used on the Russians.

//And if worse comes to worse, full support for the Ukrainian partisans.
 
2014-03-03 08:49:20 PM

soporific: So again, I ask, how much are you willing to sacrifice before you decide that it's not that big a deal?


Don't act like these guys give a shiat about anything like that. They just want to posture about how Obama and liberals are weak, and how true conservatism will save the day.

Funny how after Iraq turned out the way it did, they all disappeared. I thought they might have learned something. Turns out they were just pretending it never happened.
 
2014-03-03 08:50:13 PM
Oh look, another thread of conservatives screaming "THIS IS ALL ABOUT US! OBAMA SUCKS!" while... not really paying any attention to the situation or the parties involved beyond seeing what Obama is doing and making sure they want the opposite of it.

Has Ukraine asked us for help? Has NATO asked us for support? Has anyone in Europe said, "The United States should really come in and solve things?" It's not in our borders, it's not in our backyard, and our allies aren't telling us to come in and do anything. What the fark do you want us to do, you hawkish retards?
 
2014-03-03 08:51:08 PM

SunsetLament: Mrtraveler01: SunsetLament: Mrtraveler01: SunsetLament: I think Obama should fart some rainbows and fix everything.  Weren't we all told the entire world loved him and that they'd be falling all over themselves to follow his lead once he took office?

Yes we can!

So what should we have done instead?

Not signal to the world that the United States isn't going to lift a finger to defend any of our allies because it's too important to follow the lead of the idiot American hippies that helped put him in office.

Once again, offering no solution. Typical conservative. ;)

I ask again, what should have been the solution.

Oh I have a solution: Don't posture to the world that your ideology's foundation is "being a gigantic pussy because you might break a nail if you're forced to do what's right."


2/10. To much jackboot.
 
2014-03-03 08:52:32 PM

the money is in the banana stand: soporific: SunsetLament: He can do it because he (and everyone else in the world) knows nobody will lift a finger to stop him.

What precicely should we do?

And would you be willing to see your taxes go up to pay for it? Would you be willing to return to the days of the draft? Of rationing? Of turning the U.S. economy into a war economy and changing every aspect of your life to support a war?

How much are you, personally, willing to sacrifice? After Pearl Harbor, Americans were willing to sacrifice just about everything to see things set right. After 9/11 Americans were willing to go shopping, and if things happened to be set right, that was fine, as long as we didn't have to actually pay for it or put up with any meaningful sacrifices. Oh, and if we could have lower taxes while you're out spending trillions because, really, it's unfair to make us pay for those wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Quite frankly, one of Bush's biggest mistakes after 9/11 was telling Americans that they didn't have to sacrifice. The Iraq invasion was sold on the idea that the war would be cheap, fast, and most importantly, easy. The idea that it would be a decade long slog, difficult, and expensive was dismissed as unpatriotic. All we heard was how easy it was going to be, that no sacrifice would be needed.

When it comes to a big crisis like this, these days America only cares if it doesn't really cost us all that much. So again, I ask, how much are you willing to sacrifice before you decide that it's not that big a deal?

The terms of winning aren't reasonable any longer. There is no real point to conventional warfare anymore outside acting as world police or to achieve tactical objectives. You want to win the game? Sit back and watch everyone else blow themselves up and watch their economy tank. Walk behind the ramshackle nations and revitalize them. It is a war of attrition and a marathon, not a sprint - long gone are those days.


C'mon, those days never existed. We beat the Soviets with the long game, the Chinese are currently beating us with their long game. But, we can defeat Putin with a hard, short game. Play energy hardball and he will lose.
 
2014-03-03 08:53:46 PM

Bloody William: Oh look, another thread of conservatives screaming "THIS IS ALL ABOUT US! OBAMA SUCKS!" while... not really paying any attention to the situation or the parties involved beyond seeing what Obama is doing and making sure they want the opposite of it.

Has Ukraine asked us for help? Has NATO asked us for support? Has anyone in Europe said, "The United States should really come in and solve things?" It's not in our borders, it's not in our backyard, and our allies aren't telling us to come in and do anything. What the fark do you want us to do, you hawkish retards?


Shut up, play ball, and help push Putin over a cliff?
 
2014-03-03 08:55:09 PM

LordJiro: I don't see why Republicans are so upset about Putin, either. I mean, he's a business-friendly, gay-hatin', liberal hatin' thug...Why SHOULDN'T they like him?


Check out Rudy Guilliani.  Not only is he insulting Obama, he's praising Putin's leadership style, and doing it with a smile on his face.
 
2014-03-03 08:55:14 PM

Ow! That was my feelings!: Oh, what a whiny bunch of crap.

This is what I would do as POTUS. Total Russian energy embargo! Dragging every ally, especially and importantly must include 100% of the Euros! Even if it means higher gasoline prices in the US, help the Euros with their natural gas needs (summers coming anyway...). Full military support for NATO border allies, especially the Polish. And squeeze the Russians on the banking front. Economic sanctions are a real weapon that could be used on the Russians.

//And if worse comes to worse, full support for the Ukrainian partisans.


At what cost? I'm not saying I'm against full military intervention when needed, but are you willing to see your taxes go up to pay for it? You seem fine with higher gas prices, but will everyone? Will the same people complaining that Obama isn't a huge warmonger complain even more when his actions impact their pocketbooks? Because if you are willing to personally sacrifice and experience more pain at the pump and in your paycheck, then I think you and I can agree on extreme sanctions.

After all, I'm a believer that if we go to war, and have a good reason for it, then we should pay for it immediately, and that means higher taxes on everyone, especially the rich. Stop putting wars on credit cards, pay for them up front.
 
2014-03-03 08:58:39 PM

the money is in the banana stand: The terms of winning aren't reasonable any longer. There is no real point to conventional warfare anymore outside acting as world police or to achieve tactical objectives. You want to win the game? Sit back and watch everyone else blow themselves up and watch their economy tank. Walk behind the ramshackle nations and revitalize them. It is a war of attrition and a marathon, not a sprint - long gone are those days.


I agree, which is why smart diplomacy is still the better solution.

My response was mainly for people who criticize Obama for not being a crazy warmonger, because they would be the first to complain about their own discomfort if Obama did it right and made all Americans pay for the war effort.
 
2014-03-03 09:00:20 PM

SunsetLament: Greywar: 1. If china really is onboard, then I suggest we lease a couple islands from Japan for a US military base

We already do - we've had a couple of military installations there since WW2.

2. We immediately declare the no nuke provisions of Ukraine void as no one is honoring them, and sell them a dozen surplus nuclear missiles and launching systems....for $1 each.  Our way of saying "sorry that agreement about removing your nuclear weapons to protect your borders isnt working out"

You can't give nukes to a country that's about to be invaded by the Russians.  But we can actually stop dicking around and fill Poland and the Czech Republic full of missile defense systems ... and park a fleet in the Black Sea.


Let me be more specific.  We lease the senkaku islands.  all 5 of them.

And yes you CAN give nukes to a country that had 1,900+ of them, and gave them up in exchange for a agreement saying its borders wouldn't be violated.    And...look.  one of the signatories of that agreement is invading.
 
2014-03-03 09:00:56 PM
Ow! That was my feelings!:

Shut up, play ball, and help push Putin over a cliff?

We could just strap skis on him and send him down the courses at Sochi.
 
2014-03-03 09:01:03 PM

soporific: Ow! That was my feelings!: Oh, what a whiny bunch of crap.

This is what I would do as POTUS. Total Russian energy embargo! Dragging every ally, especially and importantly must include 100% of the Euros! Even if it means higher gasoline prices in the US, help the Euros with their natural gas needs (summers coming anyway...). Full military support for NATO border allies, especially the Polish. And squeeze the Russians on the banking front. Economic sanctions are a real weapon that could be used on the Russians.

//And if worse comes to worse, full support for the Ukrainian partisans.

At what cost? I'm not saying I'm against full military intervention when needed, but are you willing to see your taxes go up to pay for it? You seem fine with higher gas prices, but will everyone? Will the same people complaining that Obama isn't a huge warmonger complain even more when his actions impact their pocketbooks? Because if you are willing to personally sacrifice and experience more pain at the pump and in your paycheck, then I think you and I can agree on extreme sanctions.

After all, I'm a believer that if we go to war, and have a good reason for it, then we should pay for it immediately, and that means higher taxes on everyone, especially the rich. Stop putting wars on credit cards, pay for them up front.


I made no reference to going to war. We don't need too. We can economically neuter Putin. Myself paying an extra 30 cents at the pump could happen because of a hurricane....or a shortage of Russian supply. The economic effects would be minimal in the US, they really would be. Europe....well....
 
2014-03-03 09:01:46 PM

Ow! That was my feelings!: Bloody William: Oh look, another thread of conservatives screaming "THIS IS ALL ABOUT US! OBAMA SUCKS!" while... not really paying any attention to the situation or the parties involved beyond seeing what Obama is doing and making sure they want the opposite of it.

Has Ukraine asked us for help? Has NATO asked us for support? Has anyone in Europe said, "The United States should really come in and solve things?" It's not in our borders, it's not in our backyard, and our allies aren't telling us to come in and do anything. What the fark do you want us to do, you hawkish retards?

Shut up, play ball, and help push Putin over a cliff?


Okay. What then? What would be the direct ramifications for us as a result of such a power play? What state would Russia or Ukraine be after we made such a move?

Simply saying "Putin bad, get Putin out" ignores everything that would happen after. The cost of us swinging economic muscle when our interests are not currently directly threatened. The line of kleptocrats looking to replace Putin and shake his strong-arm regime into an even more unstable mess. The question of whether whoever comes after Putin would be a Russian hard-liner still looking to push Ukraine.

This isn't about us. This isn't our party. Screaming that we must take action is ridiculous. This isn't in our backyard, we haven't been asked for help, we have no reason to intervene yet. We need to stand back and consider our options, and keep an eye out for options that have the most benefits and fewest drawbacks. Right now, all of our options have a whole farking lot of drawbacks and not much impetus to rush to any of them.
 
2014-03-03 09:03:22 PM

Mentat: LordJiro: I don't see why Republicans are so upset about Putin, either. I mean, he's a business-friendly, gay-hatin', liberal hatin' thug...Why SHOULDN'T they like him?

Check out Rudy Guilliani.  Not only is he insulting Obama, he's praising Putin's leadership style, and doing it with a smile on his face.


What does Putin have to do with 9/11?
 
2014-03-03 09:09:26 PM

Bloody William: Oh look, another thread of conservatives screaming "THIS IS ALL ABOUT US! OBAMA SUCKS!" while... not really paying any attention to the situation or the parties involved beyond seeing what Obama is doing and making sure they want the opposite of it.

Has Ukraine asked us for help? Has NATO asked us for support? Has anyone in Europe said, "The United States should really come in and solve things?" It's not in our borders, it's not in our backyard, and our allies aren't telling us to come in and do anything. What the fark do you want us to do, you hawkish retards?


The Ukraine envoy has very specifically asked for our help.  And we signed agreements saying we would help.  We've even signed agreements saying we would respect their borders, Russia signed it as well.  In exchange they gave up their 1,900+ nuclear weapons.

No country in the world will now give up nuclear weapons after this.  Putin is assuring nuclear proliferation.
 
2014-03-03 09:10:04 PM

Tatterdemalian: soporific: What precicely should we do?

Oh, there's nothing we can do that The One would let us do. He's in power, not the neocon warmongers.

What we should have done? Supported the Iranian Green Revolution. Failing that, we should have refused to support the Muslim Brotherhood's Arab Spring.

Since we already did both those things, it's a bit too late to worry any more. We're already off the cliff, and the only thing left is for us neocons to say "I told you so" until we hit rock bottom.

/but keep on blaming the Republicans
//that's the only thing you can do
///even though it will make picking up the pieces more difficult, what with all your accusing the people who know which pieces really matter of causing the crash all along


I do blame the Republicans because they are the ones who completely screwed up our foriegn policy last decade. They are the ones who ran up huge bills and did a lot of damage to our military and military readiness. They are the ones who pissed away a lot of international goodwill, and they are the ones who thought going into Afghanistan with a minimal force was a good idea and going into Iraq at all was a good idea.

Now, has Obama been too naive about foriegn policy? It's possible. he's certainly been too naive about Republican opposition these past 6 years, letting them run the table while he expected everyoen to behave like adults. So I can see that he also expected world leaders to be reasonable and not insane, to his detriment. We'll have to wait and see how it pans out, and I'm taking everything the Republicans say with an entire saltshaker. Chances are they're going to be proven wrong in the next few weeks, much like reality proves them wrong time and time again. This doesn't mean everything Obama's done or doing is correct, but I'm still willing to give him a 'wait and see.'

This is why I think Hillary would be a strong President. She's got the chops to handle these kinds of situations, but she's also not insane and wanting to start another war like most everyone in the Republican party.
 
2014-03-03 09:10:12 PM

Bloody William: This isn't about us. This isn't our party. Screaming that we must take action is ridiculous. This isn't in our backyard, we haven't been asked for help, we have no reason to intervene yet. We need to stand back and consider our options, and keep an eye out for options that have the most benefits and fewest drawbacks. Right now, all of our options have a whole farking lot of drawbacks and not much impetus to rush to any of them.


I have to agree.  This isn't about us or Russia, this is about Ukraine.  Even the Russian Ukrainians interviewed by numerous news outlets don't appreciate Russia's intervention and don't want us involved either.  Ukraine wants us on the ready, but most don't want us doing anything yet.  This is their struggle and they have to go through it.

Besides, why would we bail out a country who continues to sell specialized arms to Iran?
 
2014-03-03 09:11:39 PM

Bloody William: Ow! That was my feelings!: Bloody William: Oh look, another thread of conservatives screaming "THIS IS ALL ABOUT US! OBAMA SUCKS!" while... not really paying any attention to the situation or the parties involved beyond seeing what Obama is doing and making sure they want the opposite of it.

Has Ukraine asked us for help? Has NATO asked us for support? Has anyone in Europe said, "The United States should really come in and solve things?" It's not in our borders, it's not in our backyard, and our allies aren't telling us to come in and do anything. What the fark do you want us to do, you hawkish retards?

Shut up, play ball, and help push Putin over a cliff?

Okay. What then? What would be the direct ramifications for us as a result of such a power play? What state would Russia or Ukraine be after we made such a move?

Simply saying "Putin bad, get Putin out" ignores everything that would happen after. The cost of us swinging economic muscle when our interests are not currently directly threatened. The line of kleptocrats looking to replace Putin and shake his strong-arm regime into an even more unstable mess. The question of whether whoever comes after Putin would be a Russian hard-liner still looking to push Ukraine.

This isn't about us. This isn't our party. Screaming that we must take action is ridiculous. This isn't in our backyard, we haven't been asked for help, we have no reason to intervene yet. We need to stand back and consider our options, and keep an eye out for options that have the most benefits and fewest drawbacks. Right now, all of our options have a whole farking lot of drawbacks and not much impetus to rush to any of them.


I am not 'screaming' for us to take action. We have legit allies and obvious self-interests to protect. I'm saying we should be forceful in protecting them. If Russia melts down into yet another revolutionary period.....well, here we go again. The nukes and other wmds are obviously a concern, but we have no control over them anyway. Fark it. Russia is a Oligarchical State with a Godfather at the helm, it is not a stable or long term arraignment. It will end, violently and terribly, no matter what you think or plan or hope. Let's try to minimize the farking damage, to us and our allies, is what I'm saying.
 
2014-03-03 09:12:10 PM

Mentat: LordJiro: I don't see why Republicans are so upset about Putin, either. I mean, he's a business-friendly, gay-hatin', liberal hatin' thug...Why SHOULDN'T they like him?

Check out Rudy Guilliani.  Not only is he insulting Obama, he's praising Putin's leadership style, and doing it with a smile on his face.


And that's why Obama deserves that Nobel peace prize he got.  He's gotten hard-line conservative Republicans to praise Russky leadership at the expense of a sitting American president.

Truly, the man has worked a miracle.
 
2014-03-03 09:12:42 PM

Greywar: The Ukraine envoy has very specifically asked for our help.


Us, or the UN? Because as far as I can tell, the Ukraine's UN envoy asked for help at a security council meeting. That's a far cry from us as one country moving unilaterally.
 
2014-03-03 09:12:46 PM
To be specific, those agreements state that we will help in these events by bringing it before the UN.  Which we have.  Some argue they go further but I haven't read them yet.  I think its fair to say Russia is not sticking to the agreement, although theres a agreement that allows Russia up to 25K soldiers in the Crimea.....which they may be keeping under.  LOL.  But they certainly are ignoring the respecting of ukraines borders.
 
2014-03-03 09:14:05 PM

Ow! That was my feelings!: I made no reference to going to war. We don't need too. We can economically neuter Putin. Myself paying an extra 30 cents at the pump could happen because of a hurricane....or a shortage of Russian supply. The economic effects would be minimal in the US, they really would be. Europe....well....


I guess I interpreted "full support" a bit differently. And again, I agree on using economics to solve this problem.
 
2014-03-03 09:15:58 PM

T-Servo: Boojum2k: President Obama is trying, at least. He's a lot stronger on domestic and social issues, particularly now, but this is not his area of expertise.

I agree that the focus is domestic, just like Bush Sr was a master at diplomacy but had a tin ear for domestic concerns.

I'm just raging at GOP officials who go on air or print to blame the invasion on Obama for being weak, as if Putin's decisions (which most people did not expect) were not his own. The example is David Kramer, who was in charge of the Russia desk at the State Dept during GW Bush's terms, wrote a piece in the WashPost on Sunday and today was at the Atlantic Council in DC, grandstanding in front of the Moldovan PM about "US is weak! NATO must fight or the world will end!" (Of course, he has no answer to why Russia invaded Georgia in 2008.)

Yes, this is a test, but sniping in advance by McCain, Graham, Kramer, et al doesn't help when the US has to look strong. In our military contingency planning (much of what I do), we honestly don't care most times why the situation got bad, we just have to deal with it. So yes, this is a test for Obama, but playing politics really doesn't help.

And I'm especially sensitive about Crimea, since I was to help lead a NATO training mission there in May for the same officers now under threat by Russians. Of course that mission is now scrubbed, and we've been scrambling even to figure out if everyone is still on the grid (they're not). So when Sen Graham goes on TV to blame the invasion on Obama... I get really, really upset.

/rant off


Hell, if anything their partisan sniping is what really makes us look weak to the world. If we are so at each other's throat that we can't even pass a bill helping our military veterans, then we won't be able to put up a united front to oppose them. It just makes us look like our own worst enemy.
 
2014-03-03 09:17:21 PM

BalugaJoe: Turn on the WOPR.


Greetings, Professor BalugaJoe.
 
2014-03-03 09:18:58 PM

Bloody William: Greywar: The Ukraine envoy has very specifically asked for our help.

Us, or the UN? Because as far as I can tell, the Ukraine's UN envoy asked for help at a security council meeting. That's a far cry from us as one country moving unilaterally.


Both Russia and China have veto power in the U.N. As noted above, such legal dickery might serve for the moment, at the cost of ending every future chance of nonproliferation treaties.
 
2014-03-03 09:22:00 PM

demaL-demaL-yeH: What he's doing is giving Ukrainians an common enemy against whom to unite, especially after the Russians start shooting.


You're forgetting about the pro-Russian Ukrainians in Crimea.
 
2014-03-03 09:22:05 PM

Greywar: To be specific, those agreements state that we will help in these events by bringing it before the UN.  Which we have.  Some argue they go further but I haven't read them yet.  I think its fair to say Russia is not sticking to the agreement, although theres a agreement that allows Russia up to 25K soldiers in the Crimea.....which they may be keeping under.  LOL.  But they certainly are ignoring the respecting of ukraines borders.


There's multiple agreements at play here.  With respect to Ukraine's borders and nuclear weapons, the Budapest Memorandum is the law.  May as well read it here and now, it's pretty short:

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Ukraine._Memorandum_on_Security_Assura nc es 

Ukraine also has a number of bilateral agreements regarding Russian military numbers and movements.  In short, there's an absolute limit to the number of Russian military allowed in Crimea AND Ukraine must be notified in advance of any troop movements or it's seen as an act of aggression.  Russia blew the absolute number AND didn't give Ukraine a heads up on troop movement.

That said, I'm not sure why we're getting our nickers in a knot when Ukraine continuously sells advanced arms to our adversaries.
 
2014-03-03 09:25:22 PM
Defense spending down, nice plan by the bankers.
 
2014-03-03 09:26:05 PM
We spend 7x what they do on our military. If we can't wipe the floor with them then why the hell are we spending so much?
/don't want war with anybody.
 
2014-03-03 09:26:18 PM

Bloody William: Greywar: The Ukraine envoy has very specifically asked for our help.

Us, or the UN? Because as far as I can tell, the Ukraine's UN envoy asked for help at a security council meeting. That's a far cry from us as one country moving unilaterally.


Fair enough, they have specifically asked the UN.  I don't know if they have asked us specifically.

But yeah, Russias not honoring their agreements here.  Kinda funny if you think about it...the agreement says the signatories will bring the issue up to the UN security council....and all the signatories have veto power.
 
2014-03-03 09:29:40 PM

Babwa Wawa: demaL-demaL-yeH: What he's doing is giving Ukrainians an common enemy against whom to unite, especially after the Russians start shooting.

You're forgetting about the pro-Russian Ukrainians in Crimea.


No, I am not. Crimea is Russia's Florida.
I was talking about the rest of the country. It's one thing to be pro-Russian when
you're disputin' with your Ukrainian neighbors.
It's quite another when the Russians are invading and start shooting up the place.
They've had almost a generation to form a Ukrainian identity.
 
2014-03-03 09:30:42 PM

Greywar: Bloody William: Greywar: The Ukraine envoy has very specifically asked for our help.

Us, or the UN? Because as far as I can tell, the Ukraine's UN envoy asked for help at a security council meeting. That's a far cry from us as one country moving unilaterally.

Fair enough, they have specifically asked the UN.  I don't know if they have asked us specifically.

But yeah, Russias not honoring their agreements here.  Kinda funny if you think about it...the agreement says the signatories will bring the issue up to the UN security council....and all the signatories have veto power.


Oh, the UN's a clusterfark in its own right, but until someone says "Hey, America, you should do something," I don't think we should unilaterally do something. It's jumping to get involved in something we cannot really fix, and our involvement will only make things even messier. We can't be hasty in this.
 
2014-03-03 09:31:52 PM

Ow! That was my feelings!: Oh, what a whiny bunch of crap.

This is what I would do as POTUS. Total Russian energy embargo! Dragging every ally, especially and importantly must include 100% of the Euros! Even if it means higher gasoline prices in the US, help the Euros with their natural gas needs (summers coming anyway...). Full military support for NATO border allies, especially the Polish. And squeeze the Russians on the banking front. Economic sanctions are a real weapon that could be used on the Russians.

//And if worse comes to worse, full support for the Ukrainian partisans.


You're adorable. Ado-dor-a-ble

Putin's empire is propped up by exports.  Less than 2% of those exports involve the US.  Most of their exports are petrochemicals.  Most of those are purchased by Europe.

If Europe isn't on board with an energy embargo, it does not happen.  In case you weren't aware, the US is now largely energy independent.  That's why this is a much tougher decision for Europe than for us.  It is their backyard, Europe should be driving this train, they are not.

Once again, it is up to the Untied States to save Europe from themselves.  It's a crappy job, but someone has to do it.

Right now, German, France, Italy, and Spain are not at all on board with any sort of real sanctions.  The UK is not on board with any sanctions that impact their financial sector.  We cannot force Europe to enact sanctions.   http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/03/ukraine-crisis-us-europe - putin-crimeaWhy do you think Obama's state department rep said "fark the EU"?

Obama wants sanctions, heavy sanctions, he'd love an energy embargo.  Our allies don't want it.   Obama is pushing, and he'll push harder.  If Putin moves into eastern Ukraine, it will make Obama's work easier.

What is making this less likely?  The Republican leadership.

If Democratic politicians had criticized Reagan as he faced down the bear, they'd be declared traitors.  Obama is moving to debilitate the Russian economy.  Together, the US and the EU could completely fark up Russia.  Without firing a shot, we could destroy their economy.  But Europe has to be on board.  By attacking him from the rear, Republicans are empowering Putin, and making it all the more likely the Europeans will ignore the US.

You want to blame someone for a lack of action?  Look no further than John McCain, John Boehner, and the rest of the Republican leadership.  They're attacking Obama, because it's become a reflex.  They need to sit their asses down and put their country first.
 
2014-03-03 09:37:41 PM

Boojum2k: Bloody William: Greywar: The Ukraine envoy has very specifically asked for our help.

Us, or the UN? Because as far as I can tell, the Ukraine's UN envoy asked for help at a security council meeting. That's a far cry from us as one country moving unilaterally.

Both Russia and China have veto power in the U.N. As noted above, such legal dickery might serve for the moment, at the cost of ending every future chance of nonproliferation treaties.


the UN needs to put something into place to allow for overiding a veto when they measure vetoed affects a nation with veto power and they or a known ally veto it,
 
2014-03-03 09:39:47 PM

RandomRandom: Ow! That was my feelings!: Oh, what a whiny bunch of crap.

This is what I would do as POTUS. Total Russian energy embargo! Dragging every ally, especially and importantly must include 100% of the Euros! Even if it means higher gasoline prices in the US, help the Euros with their natural gas needs (summers coming anyway...). Full military support for NATO border allies, especially the Polish. And squeeze the Russians on the banking front. Economic sanctions are a real weapon that could be used on the Russians.

//And if worse comes to worse, full support for the Ukrainian partisans.

You're adorable. Ado-dor-a-ble

Putin's empire is propped up by exports.  Less than 2% of those exports involve the US.  Most of their exports are petrochemicals.  Most of those are purchased by Europe.

If Europe isn't on board with an energy embargo, it does not happen.  In case you weren't aware, the US is now largely energy independent.  That's why this is a much tougher decision for Europe than for us.  It is their backyard, Europe should be driving this train, they are not.

Once again, it is up to the Untied States to save Europe from themselves.  It's a crappy job, but someone has to do it.

Right now, German, France, Italy, and Spain are not at all on board with any sort of real sanctions.  The UK is not on board with any sanctions that impact their financial sector.  We cannot force Europe to enact sanctions.   http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/03/ukraine-crisis-us-europe - putin-crimeaWhy do you think Obama's state department rep said "fark the EU"?

Obama wants sanctions, heavy sanctions, he'd love an energy embargo.  Our allies don't want it.   Obama is pushing, and he'll push harder.  If Putin moves into eastern Ukraine, it will make Obama's work easier.

What is making this less likely?  The Republican leadership.

If Democratic politicians had criticized Reagan as he faced down the bear, they'd be declared traitors.  Obama is moving to debilitate the Russian econ ...


Well let's just nuke Moscow and be done with it.
 
2014-03-03 09:40:18 PM

grimlock1972: the UN needs to put something into place to allow for overiding a veto when they measure vetoed affects a nation with veto power and they or a known ally veto it,


Sovereignty. It's what makes a country a country.
 
2014-03-03 09:41:49 PM
The good thing to remember is the US is not going to get involved militarily.     No matter what happens, we are in no position for years to come to act.     We are not in economic position.   We have almost no political will.


That is a good thing.   Thank your lucky stars.   Because Sec Def. Hagel would be giving some of the orders.
Scary thought isn't it....
 
2014-03-03 09:46:13 PM

Bloody William: Oh look, another thread of conservatives screaming "THIS IS ALL ABOUT US! OBAMA SUCKS!" while... not really paying any attention to the situation or the parties involved beyond seeing what Obama is doing and making sure they want the opposite of it.

Has Ukraine asked us for help? Has NATO asked us for support? Has anyone in Europe said, "The United States should really come in and solve things?" It's not in our borders, it's not in our backyard, and our allies aren't telling us to come in and do anything. What the fark do you want us to do, you hawkish retards?


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/pro-russian-gunmen-tighten -c ontrol-over-crimean-peninsula/article17156341/
 
2014-03-03 09:50:23 PM
 
2014-03-03 09:50:34 PM
Putin is a power hungry madman. THIS IS OBAMA'S FAULT! He should have started WWIII years ago and he's a coward for not nuking the world.

/Conservatives in this thread
 
2014-03-03 09:50:38 PM

freddie freeloader: Bloody William: Oh look, another thread of conservatives screaming "THIS IS ALL ABOUT US! OBAMA SUCKS!" while... not really paying any attention to the situation or the parties involved beyond seeing what Obama is doing and making sure they want the opposite of it.

Has Ukraine asked us for help? Has NATO asked us for support? Has anyone in Europe said, "The United States should really come in and solve things?" It's not in our borders, it's not in our backyard, and our allies aren't telling us to come in and do anything. What the fark do you want us to do, you hawkish retards?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/pro-russian-gunmen-tighten -c ontrol-over-crimean-peninsula/article17156341/


The fun part about this is that the US and the UK made no such agreement.
 
2014-03-03 09:52:03 PM
Mm, scratch that. Seems that's Russian AAA and it's from last year.

I suck.
 
2014-03-03 09:53:35 PM
Rather than basing this whole thread on what Russia said China said, why dont we look at the actual statement issued by China?

"But China's foreign ministry spokesman, Qin Gang, gave a somewhat different take on China's position during the past two days: "It is China's longstanding position not to interfere in others' internal affairs. We respect the independence, sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine," he said, according to a statement posted on the Chinese ministry's website on Sunday."
 
2014-03-03 09:54:57 PM

RandomRandom: You want to blame someone for a lack of action?  Look no further than John McCain, John Boehner, and the rest of the Republican leadership.  They're attacking Obama, because it's become a reflex.  They need to sit their asses down and put their country first.


Why should they start now? They haven't been about their country for quite some time, I doubt most of them even vaguely recall the last time it actually was.
 
2014-03-03 09:55:26 PM

RexTalionis: Rather than basing this whole thread on what Russia said China said, why dont we look at the actual statement issued by China?

"But China's foreign ministry spokesman, Qin Gang, gave a somewhat different take on China's position during the past two days: "It is China's longstanding position not to interfere in others' internal affairs. We respect the independence, sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine," he said, according to a statement posted on the Chinese ministry's website on Sunday."


Yeah, I've been having a hard time squaring this article with what the Chinese ambassador said at the UN today.  Loosely translated, he told Russia to GTFO.
 
2014-03-03 09:57:15 PM

SunsetLament: I'll admit, liberals are the most fun right at the moment when they realize the obvious results of their ideology flourishing is that everything goes to shiat.  It's a shame that everything has to actually go to shiat for them to realize it.  It's also a shame that they have to pretend they were not responsible in any way when it happens, too.

Thanks liberals - you're both hilarious and farking terrible.


As oppose to conservatives, who manage to get us into useless wars and ungodly deficits due to those wars and then go into denial that they did anything wrong.

I'm not sure that it mattered who was President, Putin would have done this anyways..  W. Bush had looked into Putins eyes
"I looked the man in the eye. I found him to be very straight forward and trustworthy and we had a very good dialogue."
"I was able to get a sense of his soul."


Diplomacy needs to be done first...then action if needed be.  There are plus and balances to military action at this point.

You are now farkied as an unpatriotic troll.  One thing you can say about Democrats, is that when there is a crisis, they do line up behind whomever the President is, even if they disagree with the methods, they ultimately support the President.

You can't say that about party line conservatives.
 
2014-03-03 10:01:02 PM

SunsetLament: Mrtraveler01: SunsetLament: I think Obama should fart some rainbows and fix everything.  Weren't we all told the entire world loved him and that they'd be falling all over themselves to follow his lead once he took office?

Yes we can!

So what should we have done instead?

Not signal to the world that the United States isn't going to lift a finger to defend any of our allies because it's too important to follow the lead of the idiot American hippies that helped put him in office.


So "hippie" just means "anyone who disagrees with me" to you, it seems.  I suppose that's about the intellectual level you're capable of.

It's interesting how often stupid people call folks they disagree with "idiots."
 
2014-03-03 10:04:12 PM

Frank N Stein: SunsetLament: Mrtraveler01: SunsetLament: I think Obama should fart some rainbows and fix everything.  Weren't we all told the entire world loved him and that they'd be falling all over themselves to follow his lead once he took office?

Yes we can!

So what should we have done instead?

Not signal to the world that the United States isn't going to lift a finger to defend any of our allies because it's too important to follow the lead of the idiot American hippies that helped put him in office.

what's funny is that the original hippies were apart of the peace movement; which was almost entirely funded by the KGB.


Not really, no.  But it's nice that you come right out with the most easily-disproven claims.  It does make things easier.
 
2014-03-03 10:11:44 PM

Bloody William: Oh look, another thread of conservatives screaming "THIS IS ALL ABOUT US! OBAMA SUCKS!" while... not really paying any attention to the situation or the parties involved beyond seeing what Obama is doing and making sure they want the opposite of it.

Has Ukraine asked us for help? Has NATO asked us for support? Has anyone in Europe said, "The United States should really come in and solve things?" It's not in our borders, it's not in our backyard, and our allies aren't telling us to come in and do anything. What the fark do you want us to do, you hawkish retards?


Which is exactly what China is doing yet we're actually condeming them for staying neutral. China has almost zero sphere of influence and interest in freakin Crimea or Black Sea or even Ukraine as a whole.

As a member of the Security Council they HAD to say something and that something was bascially saying keep us out but don't go all WWIII over it yet if you look at 99% of the post here the anti China rhetoric is as par with anyhting China related. I have never seen a more anti Chinese forum than on fark actually.
I think cop hating and chinese hating are the only two things libs and conservatives here actually agree on.
 
2014-03-03 10:12:28 PM
Why are people even bothering with the right-wing whackjobs on this? They're completely immaterial, they have no political power and they can't influence anything. All they can do is voice their poutrage and pretend that some how magically things would be better if America was more like them - which obviously, hell even demonstrably this isn't true. They're failures and will happily continue down their path of irrelevance through this century.

As for this current issue - it's developing. So far the government hasn't made any missteps in their foreign policy and everything has worked out pretty well for us. It's likely by the time summer rolls around this will be resolved and people will go back to screaming about "but but Benghazi!" or some other made up outrage, just like they did after Syria, after Lebanon, after Egypt, well you get the picture.

If people were more informed about the situation in Crimea, they would understand that the local government there is a separatist government. The people there have a right to self determination, this is a very American principle and one that we should support throughout the world. The Russians, so far, have not impeded on this, if anything they may actually be helping the locals by providing them with the opportunity to go to a referendum about becoming a separate territory (separate from both Ukraine and Russia), which appears to be the popular feeling in the region.

Anyway, I believe they are holding elections in may over this subject. That's fine. It's likely the outcome will be that Crimea wants autonomy. That's also fine. I don't think we have the right, or even the moral obligation to prevent people from seeking to form an autonomous government through democracy. It actually stands in violation of the very principles the United States was founded on.
 
2014-03-03 10:14:35 PM

ariseatex: Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: toraque: Mentat: We'll see.  China has always been very leery about encouraging independence movements and they hung Putin out to dry during the Georgia crisis.  If the West pushes things, then we'll see how general the agreement is.

There's still a strong chance they'll support Russia, in a 'Why don't you go pick a fight with everybody, so we can quietly steal this bit of ocean over here while no one's looking' sort of way.

The Chinese HAVE TO support Russia on this.  Any hint that democratic overthrow of authority might lead to positive change must be stomped out.

They have to be careful here.  In the SC they're strictly non-interventionalist, and their statement there reflected this, IMO.  Yes, they condemned how the current Ukrainian leadership came to power, but they also cautioned that both sides needed to stay out of what is an internal Ukrainian conflict.

What you'll see from China is a lot of talk, but no action.  As long as Russia looks like it's just protecting its bases/transport routes, they'll let it slide.  The moment they enter the rest of Ukraine, they'll lose Chinese vocal support, further isolating Russia.


Probably correct.  Although China may also object if Russia attempts to dismember Ukraine.  The Chinese are VERY sensitive to people supporting break-away provinces.
 
2014-03-03 10:16:32 PM

Darth_Lukecash: You are now farkied as an unpatriotic troll.  One thing you can say about Democrats, is that when there is a crisis, they do line up behind whomever the President is, even if they disagree with the methods, they ultimately support the President.You can't say that about party line conservatives.


Calling dissenters unpatriotic: It's Okay When WE Do It!

/remember when dissent was the highest form of patriotism?
//or so Mochael Moore kept proclaiming
///it might actually depend on whether you're doing it right, or doing it wrong
 
2014-03-03 10:22:18 PM

TwistedFark: Why are people even bothering with the right-wing whackjobs on this?


Because they need someone to blame for their own imperfection, since it can't be the natural end result of all left-wing policies based on fantasy.
 
2014-03-03 10:22:58 PM
A little history on why Russia may not listin to the West.

Intervention by the Great Powers[edit]
Under pressure from the British, Russia accepted the truce offered by the Ottoman Empire on January 31, 1878, but continued to move towards Constantinople.
The British sent a fleet of battleships to intimidate Russia from entering the city, and Russian forces stopped at San Stefano. Eventually Russia entered into a settlement under the Treaty of San Stefano on March 3, by which the Ottoman Empire would recognize the independence of Romania, Serbia, Montenegro, and the autonomy of Bulgaria.
Alarmed by the extension of Russian power into the Balkans, the Great Powers later forced modifications of the treaty in the Congress of Berlin. The main change here was that Bulgaria would be split, according to earlier agreements among the Great Powers that precluded the creation of a large new Slavic state: the northern and eastern parts to become principalities as before (Principality of Bulgaria and Eastern Rumelia), though with different governors; and the Macedonian region, originally part of Bulgaria under San Stefano, would return to direct Ottoman administration.[43] At the Congress of Berlin, Bismarck said that he was fighting for peace in Europe. However he was not aware that his decision to split Bulgaria would start a war in the Balkans 34 years later and would eventually lead to World War I.[citation needed]


From here: Russo-Turkish War (1877-78)

Up until then Russia wanted to be allies with Germany but they felt sold out so made an alliance with France At the time England wasn't doing mutual defense pacts but Germany's proxy fight in the Boar wars and the build up of the German navy forced England into an alliance with France. Russia has always been worried about encirclement.

/It's a dangerous game the leaders are playing.
 
2014-03-03 10:24:42 PM

germ78: So tell me how sanctions will work again?


Yeah, you're right, it'd be a MUCH better idea to fly off the handle and attack a major, nuclear superpower.
 
2014-03-03 10:28:19 PM

XveryYpettyZ: ariseatex: Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: toraque: Mentat: We'll see.  China has always been very leery about encouraging independence movements and they hung Putin out to dry during the Georgia crisis.  If the West pushes things, then we'll see how general the agreement is.

There's still a strong chance they'll support Russia, in a 'Why don't you go pick a fight with everybody, so we can quietly steal this bit of ocean over here while no one's looking' sort of way.

The Chinese HAVE TO support Russia on this.  Any hint that democratic overthrow of authority might lead to positive change must be stomped out.

They have to be careful here.  In the SC they're strictly non-interventionalist, and their statement there reflected this, IMO.  Yes, they condemned how the current Ukrainian leadership came to power, but they also cautioned that both sides needed to stay out of what is an internal Ukrainian conflict.

What you'll see from China is a lot of talk, but no action.  As long as Russia looks like it's just protecting its bases/transport routes, they'll let it slide.  The moment they enter the rest of Ukraine, they'll lose Chinese vocal support, further isolating Russia.

Probably correct.  Although China may also object if Russia attempts to dismember Ukraine.  The Chinese are VERY sensitive to people supporting break-away provinces.


Well, I'm guessing China is looking at this from their POV. Tibet? Taiwan? Those ring a bell? Russian and Chinese border conflict happened in Mongolia where, meh , hard to tell there.
 
2014-03-03 10:36:43 PM

tinfoil-hat maggie: A little history on why Russia may not listin to the West.

Intervention by the Great Powers[edit]
Under pressure from the British, Russia accepted the truce offered by the Ottoman Empire on January 31, 1878, but continued to move towards Constantinople.
The British sent a fleet of battleships to intimidate Russia from entering the city, and Russian forces stopped at San Stefano. Eventually Russia entered into a settlement under the Treaty of San Stefano on March 3, by which the Ottoman Empire would recognize the independence of Romania, Serbia, Montenegro, and the autonomy of Bulgaria.
Alarmed by the extension of Russian power into the Balkans, the Great Powers later forced modifications of the treaty in the Congress of Berlin. The main change here was that Bulgaria would be split, according to earlier agreements among the Great Powers that precluded the creation of a large new Slavic state: the northern and eastern parts to become principalities as before (Principality of Bulgaria and Eastern Rumelia), though with different governors; and the Macedonian region, originally part of Bulgaria under San Stefano, would return to direct Ottoman administration.[43] At the Congress of Berlin, Bismarck said that he was fighting for peace in Europe. However he was not aware that his decision to split Bulgaria would start a war in the Balkans 34 years later and would eventually lead to World War I.[citation needed]

From here: Russo-Turkish War (1877-78)

Up until then Russia wanted to be allies with Germany but they felt sold out so made an alliance with France At the time England wasn't doing mutual defense pacts but Germany's proxy fight in the Boar wars and the build up of the German navy forced England into an alliance with France. Russia has always been worried about encirclement.

/It's a dangerous game the leaders are playing.


True, as far as it goes, Mags, but the Russians have been land-grabbin' neighbor-farkin' bastards since Ivan III or the Terrible, depending on how you count it. After WWII, they grabbed Central Europe. Understandable, considering the way they'd been chewed up during the war. Inexcusable, but understandable. They might have had a stronger case if they hadn't started the war by divvying up Poland with Germany, grabbing the Baltic Republics, and chewing up half of Finland.

What they're doing, and how the world reacts is very dangerous.
But it's not a game, and there are millions of lives on the line.
 
2014-03-03 10:40:36 PM
Like I said, just nuke Moscow until it's a hole in the ground, and say 'this is our final warning. This is no longer the 19th century".

But then, that would unleash all sorts of hell.

On a  different sidenot, this is the perfect time for North Korea to do some crazy shiat, since no one will notice.
 
2014-03-03 10:41:01 PM

Ow! That was my feelings!: It's 1979 all over again.
[www.bizpacreview.com image 530x260]


SWEET!  That means I'm 29 and single again. Thank you, FSM.
 
2014-03-03 10:44:29 PM

zimbomba63: Ow! That was my feelings!: It's 1979 all over again.
[www.bizpacreview.com image 530x260]

SWEET!  That means I'm 29 and single again. Thank you, FSM.


I wasn't even born in this crazy age! What must I do!?.
 
2014-03-03 10:44:46 PM
The Chinese will do anything to make it seem like they matter in global affairs.  The Russians desperately need anyone on their side.  It's a match made in heaven.
 
2014-03-03 10:44:56 PM

SunsetLament: I'll admit, liberals are the most fun right at the moment when they realize the obvious results of their ideology flourishing is that everything goes to shiat.  It's a shame that everything has to actually go to shiat for them to realize it.  It's also a shame that they have to pretend they were not responsible in any way when it happens, too.

Thanks liberals - you're both hilarious and farking terrible.


Perhaps you've way overestimated them?
 
2014-03-03 10:47:30 PM

demaL-demaL-yeH: tinfoil-hat maggie: A little history on why Russia may not listin to the West.

Intervention by the Great Powers[edit]
Under pressure from the British, Russia accepted the truce offered by the Ottoman Empire on January 31, 1878, but continued to move towards Constantinople.
The British sent a fleet of battleships to intimidate Russia from entering the city, and Russian forces stopped at San Stefano. Eventually Russia entered into a settlement under the Treaty of San Stefano on March 3, by which the Ottoman Empire would recognize the independence of Romania, Serbia, Montenegro, and the autonomy of Bulgaria.
Alarmed by the extension of Russian power into the Balkans, the Great Powers later forced modifications of the treaty in the Congress of Berlin. The main change here was that Bulgaria would be split, according to earlier agreements among the Great Powers that precluded the creation of a large new Slavic state: the northern and eastern parts to become principalities as before (Principality of Bulgaria and Eastern Rumelia), though with different governors; and the Macedonian region, originally part of Bulgaria under San Stefano, would return to direct Ottoman administration.[43] At the Congress of Berlin, Bismarck said that he was fighting for peace in Europe. However he was not aware that his decision to split Bulgaria would start a war in the Balkans 34 years later and would eventually lead to World War I.[citation needed]

From here: Russo-Turkish War (1877-78)

Up until then Russia wanted to be allies with Germany but they felt sold out so made an alliance with France At the time England wasn't doing mutual defense pacts but Germany's proxy fight in the Boar wars and the build up of the German navy forced England into an alliance with France. Russia has always been worried about encirclement.

/It's a dangerous game the leaders are playing.

True, as far as it goes, Mags, but the Russians have been land-grabbin' neighbor-farkin' bastards since Ivan III or ...


LoL, Thank goodness the USA didn't win huge parts of a continent from other people through violence and duplicity.
 
2014-03-03 10:49:14 PM

grimlock1972: Seriously people even if Obama ordered troops to the Ukraine its very likely we would not yet have boots on the ground, it takes time to organize and set a line of supply and to build a coalition of nations to support the effort.

Seriously the only US Military assets that might have been able to respond by now is the US sixth fleet based in Naples Italy.

Any troops in Europe would need time to supply and permission would be needed to move through allied nations before they could roll for Ukraine.

A small force could be sent by air but not enough to do much of anything beside put Moscow on notice, provided once again we got okay to route through allied air space.


Incirlik Air Base (Turkey) would like a word. So would Aitos Logistics Center (Bulgaria), Souda Bay Naval Logistics Center (Greece), Bezmer Air Base (Bulgaria), and Graf Ignatievo Air Base (Bulgaria).

That's not really a "small" force (though admittedly, some of the forces in Turkey may be tied up in other places at the moment), and two separate logistics centers to supply. And yes, Army logistics (and non-logistics) personnel do, in fact, train in loading Air Force planes for supply drops. I was never supply, though I was in a combat field unit (intel), and I took the training course. We've also been known to hitch a ride with the Air Force on occasion. So, yes, we certainly could field a rapid response force if the Ukrainians could clear one of the airfields. Buddy of mine ran an Army Airfield for about a decade before he retired and before that, he WAS Army rapid response force--we can get troops on the ground anywhere in the world within 24 hours if absolutely necessary--and frequently have done so.
 
2014-03-03 10:50:45 PM
How about one of you omniscient, patriotic experts on foreign relations educate the rest of us as to how President Romney would have acted to neutralize the Putin threat?
 
2014-03-03 10:54:42 PM

CygnusDarius: zimbomba63: Ow! That was my feelings!: It's 1979 all over again.
[www.bizpacreview.com image 530x260]

SWEET!  That means I'm 29 and single again. Thank you, FSM.

I wasn't even born in this crazy age! What must I do!?.


Select punk or new wave over disco and hair-band metal if you like sex.
And really stock up on Levis 501 Shrink-to-Fits - they go to a much lighter
denim and stop making them in the US before you can blink.

/Wrap your package, too.
 
2014-03-03 10:55:16 PM

Epic Fap Session: How about one of you omniscient, patriotic experts on foreign relations educate the rest of us as to how President Romney would have acted to neutralize the Putin threat?


He would have (wisely) done the same farking thing Obama is doing--and I am neither a fan of Obama nor Romney, but McCain and the rest of the virulently anti-Obamniacs need to shut the hell up. He is doing exactly what the Budapest documents call for, and he is staying within the bonds of international law.

Had he run out and done what Bush did in Iraq, THAT would be illegal. Yet it is EXACTLY what some are calling for--and EXACTLY what Putin has done.
 
2014-03-03 10:55:19 PM

Aigoo: grimlock1972: Seriously people even if Obama ordered troops to the Ukraine its very likely we would not yet have boots on the ground, it takes time to organize and set a line of supply and to build a coalition of nations to support the effort.

Seriously the only US Military assets that might have been able to respond by now is the US sixth fleet based in Naples Italy.

Any troops in Europe would need time to supply and permission would be needed to move through allied nations before they could roll for Ukraine.

A small force could be sent by air but not enough to do much of anything beside put Moscow on notice, provided once again we got okay to route through allied air space.

Incirlik Air Base (Turkey) would like a word. So would Aitos Logistics Center (Bulgaria), Souda Bay Naval Logistics Center (Greece), Bezmer Air Base (Bulgaria), and Graf Ignatievo Air Base (Bulgaria).

That's not really a "small" force (though admittedly, some of the forces in Turkey may be tied up in other places at the moment), and two separate logistics centers to supply. And yes, Army logistics (and non-logistics) personnel do, in fact, train in loading Air Force planes for supply drops. I was never supply, though I was in a combat field unit (intel), and I took the training course. We've also been known to hitch a ride with the Air Force on occasion. So, yes, we certainly could field a rapid response force if the Ukrainians could clear one of the airfields. Buddy of mine ran an Army Airfield for about a decade before he retired and before that, he WAS Army rapid response force--we can get troops on the ground anywhere in the world within 24 hours if absolutely necessary--and frequently have done so.


As a teenage AF brat I used to work for a MAPS squadron.  Not only can we get troops on the ground anywhere in the world within 24 hours, we can build a functioning air port anywhere in the world in the same amount of time assuming it's secured.  You'd be amazed how fast we moved an entire Army through Rhein Main.  Just keep bringing in the C5s and C17s all day every day, 80 to 150 per day.  We'll load them up and ship them out.
 
2014-03-03 10:56:10 PM

tinfoil-hat maggie: demaL-demaL-yeH: tinfoil-hat maggie: A little history on why Russia may not listin to the West.

Intervention by the Great Powers[edit]
Under pressure from the British, Russia accepted the truce offered by the Ottoman Empire on January 31, 1878, but continued to move towards Constantinople.
The British sent a fleet of battleships to intimidate Russia from entering the city, and Russian forces stopped at San Stefano. Eventually Russia entered into a settlement under the Treaty of San Stefano on March 3, by which the Ottoman Empire would recognize the independence of Romania, Serbia, Montenegro, and the autonomy of Bulgaria.
Alarmed by the extension of Russian power into the Balkans, the Great Powers later forced modifications of the treaty in the Congress of Berlin. The main change here was that Bulgaria would be split, according to earlier agreements among the Great Powers that precluded the creation of a large new Slavic state: the northern and eastern parts to become principalities as before (Principality of Bulgaria and Eastern Rumelia), though with different governors; and the Macedonian region, originally part of Bulgaria under San Stefano, would return to direct Ottoman administration.[43] At the Congress of Berlin, Bismarck said that he was fighting for peace in Europe. However he was not aware that his decision to split Bulgaria would start a war in the Balkans 34 years later and would eventually lead to World War I.[citation needed]

From here: Russo-Turkish War (1877-78)

Up until then Russia wanted to be allies with Germany but they felt sold out so made an alliance with France At the time England wasn't doing mutual defense pacts but Germany's proxy fight in the Boar wars and the build up of the German navy forced England into an alliance with France. Russia has always been worried about encirclement.

/It's a dangerous game the leaders are playing.

True, as far as it goes, Mags, but the Russians have been land-grabbin' neighbor-farkin' bastards since I ...


We stopped, and not because we were forced to.
 
2014-03-03 10:57:27 PM

Epic Fap Session: How about one of you omniscient, patriotic experts on foreign relations educate the rest of us as to how President Romney would have acted to neutralize the Putin threat?


www.poprewind.com

interns.barrelny.com
 
2014-03-03 10:59:06 PM

Aigoo: grimlock1972: Seriously people even if Obama ordered troops to the Ukraine its very likely we would not yet have boots on the ground, it takes time to organize and set a line of supply and to build a coalition of nations to support the effort.

Seriously the only US Military assets that might have been able to respond by now is the US sixth fleet based in Naples Italy.

Any troops in Europe would need time to supply and permission would be needed to move through allied nations before they could roll for Ukraine.

A small force could be sent by air but not enough to do much of anything beside put Moscow on notice, provided once again we got okay to route through allied air space.

Incirlik Air Base (Turkey) would like a word. So would Aitos Logistics Center (Bulgaria), Souda Bay Naval Logistics Center (Greece), Bezmer Air Base (Bulgaria), and Graf Ignatievo Air Base (Bulgaria).

That's not really a "small" force (though admittedly, some of the forces in Turkey may be tied up in other places at the moment), and two separate logistics centers to supply. And yes, Army logistics (and non-logistics) personnel do, in fact, train in loading Air Force planes for supply drops. I was never supply, though I was in a combat field unit (intel), and I took the training course. We've also been known to hitch a ride with the Air Force on occasion. So, yes, we certainly could field a rapid response force if the Ukrainians could clear one of the airfields. Buddy of mine ran an Army Airfield for about a decade before he retired and before that, he WAS Army rapid response force--we can get troops on the ground anywhere in the world within 24 hours if absolutely necessary--and frequently have done so.


Pull your anemometer out of your helmet, bro.
/sotI?
 
2014-03-03 10:59:37 PM

demaL-demaL-yeH: CygnusDarius: zimbomba63: Ow! That was my feelings!: It's 1979 all over again.
[www.bizpacreview.com image 530x260]

SWEET!  That means I'm 29 and single again. Thank you, FSM.

I wasn't even born in this crazy age! What must I do!?.

Select punk or new wave over disco and hair-band metal if you like sex.
And really stock up on Levis 501 Shrink-to-Fits - they go to a much lighter
denim and stop making them in the US before you can blink.

/Wrap your package, too.


Lulz, but good advice : D
 
2014-03-03 11:00:57 PM
Mrtraveler01:

Still nothing. I know its hard for conservatives to grasp such things but try...

What should have been done with Ukraine?


Ironic a liberal shill trolling for solutions when pointing and laughing and denying that Russia is a geo political foe in 2008 and 2012 got us here ... I have a solution let people that actually know what the problems are deal with them instead of pointing and laughing to win elections.  I'd rather vote for the guy that acknowledges the problem he might be looking for a solution the other guy get's blindsided just like the POTUS did.
 
2014-03-03 11:02:00 PM

RexTalionis: Rather than basing this whole thread on what Russia said China said, why dont we look at the actual statement issued by China?

"But China's foreign ministry spokesman, Qin Gang, gave a somewhat different take on China's position during the past two days: "It is China's longstanding position not to interfere in others' internal affairs. We respect the independence, sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine," he said, according to a statement posted on the Chinese ministry's website on Sunday."


Does this include drones?
 
2014-03-03 11:03:00 PM

PewterPirate55: Mrtraveler01:

Still nothing. I know its hard for conservatives to grasp such things but try...

What should have been done with Ukraine?

Ironic a liberal shill trolling for solutions when pointing and laughing and denying that Russia is a geo political foe in 2008 and 2012 got us here ... I have a solution let people that actually know what the problems are deal with them instead of pointing and laughing to win elections.  I'd rather vote for the guy that acknowledges the problem he might be looking for a solution the other guy get's blindsided just like the POTUS did.


The Russians are not targeting anything that impairs our national interests. They are simply being opportunistic bastards.
 
2014-03-03 11:03:15 PM

PewterPirate55: Mrtraveler01:

Still nothing. I know its hard for conservatives to grasp such things but try...

What should have been done with Ukraine?

Ironic a liberal shill trolling for solutions when pointing and laughing and denying that Russia is a geo political foe in 2008 and 2012 got us here ... I have a solution let people that actually know what the problems are deal with them instead of pointing and laughing to win elections.  I'd rather vote for the guy that acknowledges the problem he might be looking for a solution the other guy get's blindsided just like the POTUS did.


Just to be clear, you're supporting intervention in the situation of some sort?  Either economically or militarily?  Maybe just push politically in Ukraine's favor through the UN?
 
2014-03-03 11:04:06 PM

Aigoo: Epic Fap Session: How about one of you omniscient, patriotic experts on foreign relations educate the rest of us as to how President Romney would have acted to neutralize the Putin threat?

He would have (wisely) done the same farking thing Obama is doing--and I am neither a fan of Obama nor Romney, but McCain and the rest of the virulently anti-Obamniacs need to shut the hell up. He is doing exactly what the Budapest documents call for, and he is staying within the bonds of international law.

Had he run out and done what Bush did in Iraq, THAT would be illegal. Yet it is EXACTLY what some are calling for--and EXACTLY what Putin has done.


With all due respect but Romney was an idiot when it came to foreign policy as evidenced by the foreign policy debate where he kept saying that Obama's policy doesn't work but when asked what he would do instead, said that he would basically do the same thing Obama did.

Obama's strength was actually foreign policy because the rest of the country was fatigued after a decade of neocons running things. That's why they were so desperate for Benghazi to stick and why they're so desperate to make this seem like it's Obama fault (even though in reality the same thing would've happened with Romney in charge).

But I agree, short of possibly enacting some sanctions, we really shouldn't do more than that.
 
2014-03-03 11:04:50 PM

Epic Fap Session: How about one of you omniscient, patriotic experts on foreign relations educate the rest of us as to how President Romney would have acted to neutralize the Putin threat?


He doesn't have a Nobel Peace Prize to shake so the magic answer appears on the bottom.
 
2014-03-03 11:05:16 PM

PewterPirate55: Mrtraveler01:

Still nothing. I know its hard for conservatives to grasp such things but try...

What should have been done with Ukraine?

Ironic a liberal shill trolling for solutions when pointing and laughing and denying that Russia is a geo political foe in 2008 and 2012 got us here ... I have a solution let people that actually know what the problems are deal with them instead of pointing and laughing to win elections.  I'd rather vote for the guy that acknowledges the problem he might be looking for a solution the other guy get's blindsided just like the POTUS did.


So what should've been the solution then?
 
2014-03-03 11:06:02 PM

PewterPirate55: Mrtraveler01:

Still nothing. I know its hard for conservatives to grasp such things but try...

What should have been done with Ukraine?

Ironic a liberal shill trolling for solutions when pointing and laughing and denying that Russia is a geo political foe in 2008 and 2012 got us here ... I have a solution let people that actually know what the problems are deal with them instead of pointing and laughing to win elections.  I'd rather vote for the guy that acknowledges the problem he might be looking for a solution the other guy get's blindsided just like the POTUS did.


You other folks will note, of course, that PewterPirate STILL hasn't said what Obama should have done besides "Lose to a Republican".
 
2014-03-03 11:07:23 PM

Agatha Crispy: Epic Fap Session: How about one of you omniscient, patriotic experts on foreign relations educate the rest of us as to how President Romney would have acted to neutralize the Putin threat?

He doesn't have a Nobel Peace Prize to shake so the magic answer appears on the bottom.


So you're implying that nobody EVER should have received a Nobel Peace Prize? Because guess what? EVERY SINGLE PEACE PRIZE WINNER LIVED WHILE NON-PEACEFUL SHIAT HAPPENED.
 
2014-03-03 11:08:45 PM
Generally speaking, complex problems do not have simple solutions.
Which assplains the right-wing armchair quarterbacking when it comes to foreign policy on Fark.
 
2014-03-03 11:09:54 PM

LordJiro: Agatha Crispy: Epic Fap Session: How about one of you omniscient, patriotic experts on foreign relations educate the rest of us as to how President Romney would have acted to neutralize the Putin threat?

He doesn't have a Nobel Peace Prize to shake so the magic answer appears on the bottom.

So you're implying that nobody EVER should have received a Nobel Peace Prize? Because guess what? EVERY SINGLE PEACE PRIZE WINNER LIVED WHILE NON-PEACEFUL SHIAT HAPPENED.


Every single Nobel Peace Prize winner actually did something to win it. What did your President do to deserve a Nobel Peace Prize three months into office?
 
2014-03-03 11:11:00 PM

Agatha Crispy: LordJiro: Agatha Crispy: Epic Fap Session: How about one of you omniscient, patriotic experts on foreign relations educate the rest of us as to how President Romney would have acted to neutralize the Putin threat?

He doesn't have a Nobel Peace Prize to shake so the magic answer appears on the bottom.

So you're implying that nobody EVER should have received a Nobel Peace Prize? Because guess what? EVERY SINGLE PEACE PRIZE WINNER LIVED WHILE NON-PEACEFUL SHIAT HAPPENED.

Every single Nobel Peace Prize winner actually did something to win it. What did your President do to deserve a Nobel Peace Prize three months into office?


He kept Republicans out of office.  You see how grateful the rest of the world was?
 
2014-03-03 11:12:04 PM

rohar: Agatha Crispy: LordJiro: Agatha Crispy: Epic Fap Session: How about one of you omniscient, patriotic experts on foreign relations educate the rest of us as to how President Romney would have acted to neutralize the Putin threat?

He doesn't have a Nobel Peace Prize to shake so the magic answer appears on the bottom.

So you're implying that nobody EVER should have received a Nobel Peace Prize? Because guess what? EVERY SINGLE PEACE PRIZE WINNER LIVED WHILE NON-PEACEFUL SHIAT HAPPENED.

Every single Nobel Peace Prize winner actually did something to win it. What did your President do to deserve a Nobel Peace Prize three months into office?

He kept Republicans out of office.  You see how grateful the rest of the world was?


Yes, the dead wedding parties in Yemen are overjoyed.
 
2014-03-03 11:14:10 PM

rohar: Aigoo: grimlock1972: Seriously people even if Obama ordered troops to the Ukraine its very likely we would not yet have boots on the ground, it takes time to organize and set a line of supply and to build a coalition of nations to support the effort.

Seriously the only US Military assets that might have been able to respond by now is the US sixth fleet based in Naples Italy.

Any troops in Europe would need time to supply and permission would be needed to move through allied nations before they could roll for Ukraine.

A small force could be sent by air but not enough to do much of anything beside put Moscow on notice, provided once again we got okay to route through allied air space.

Incirlik Air Base (Turkey) would like a word. So would Aitos Logistics Center (Bulgaria), Souda Bay Naval Logistics Center (Greece), Bezmer Air Base (Bulgaria), and Graf Ignatievo Air Base (Bulgaria).

That's not really a "small" force (though admittedly, some of the forces in Turkey may be tied up in other places at the moment), and two separate logistics centers to supply. And yes, Army logistics (and non-logistics) personnel do, in fact, train in loading Air Force planes for supply drops. I was never supply, though I was in a combat field unit (intel), and I took the training course. We've also been known to hitch a ride with the Air Force on occasion. So, yes, we certainly could field a rapid response force if the Ukrainians could clear one of the airfields. Buddy of mine ran an Army Airfield for about a decade before he retired and before that, he WAS Army rapid response force--we can get troops on the ground anywhere in the world within 24 hours if absolutely necessary--and frequently have done so.

As a teenage AF brat I used to work for a MAPS squadron.  Not only can we get troops on the ground anywhere in the world within 24 hours, we can build a functioning air port anywhere in the world in the same amount of time assuming it's secured.  You'd be amazed how fast we moved an ...


No I wouldn't, LOL. I was being very general--my knowledge is primarily Army and what the Army can do in 24 hours (often with the Air Force's assistance in transportation). But I know damned well if we can get an Army rapid response force in, there's a shiat ton more that can and is being done by the Air Force that the Army isn't doing itself. :D
 
2014-03-03 11:14:25 PM
So the only answer to the question was partisan bullshiat from the party who doesn't understand why the country is divided. It's okay, I didn't expect anyone to have an answer.
 
2014-03-03 11:15:08 PM

demaL-demaL-yeH: We stopped, and not because we were forced to.


Huh? Wounded Knee incident, I believe Canada has had more recent incidents.
 
2014-03-03 11:15:18 PM

Agatha Crispy: LordJiro: Agatha Crispy: Epic Fap Session: How about one of you omniscient, patriotic experts on foreign relations educate the rest of us as to how President Romney would have acted to neutralize the Putin threat?

He doesn't have a Nobel Peace Prize to shake so the magic answer appears on the bottom.

So you're implying that nobody EVER should have received a Nobel Peace Prize? Because guess what? EVERY SINGLE PEACE PRIZE WINNER LIVED WHILE NON-PEACEFUL SHIAT HAPPENED.

Every single Nobel Peace Prize winner actually did something to win it. What did your President do to deserve a Nobel Peace Prize three months into office?


Theodore Roosevelt was another Nobel Peace Laureate. After conquering the Philippines. Your point?
 
2014-03-03 11:15:55 PM

Agatha Crispy: rohar: Agatha Crispy: LordJiro: Agatha Crispy: Epic Fap Session: How about one of you omniscient, patriotic experts on foreign relations educate the rest of us as to how President Romney would have acted to neutralize the Putin threat?

He doesn't have a Nobel Peace Prize to shake so the magic answer appears on the bottom.

So you're implying that nobody EVER should have received a Nobel Peace Prize? Because guess what? EVERY SINGLE PEACE PRIZE WINNER LIVED WHILE NON-PEACEFUL SHIAT HAPPENED.

Every single Nobel Peace Prize winner actually did something to win it. What did your President do to deserve a Nobel Peace Prize three months into office?

He kept Republicans out of office.  You see how grateful the rest of the world was?

Yes, the dead wedding parties in Yemen are overjoyed.


The hundreds of thousands, if not more, of Iranian civilians that would have been killed in the Iranian war McCain and Romney were dead-set on certainly are. As are the tens of thousands, if not more, American soldiers that would have died.
 
2014-03-03 11:17:06 PM

rohar: Agatha Crispy: LordJiro: Agatha Crispy: Epic Fap Session: How about one of you omniscient, patriotic experts on foreign relations educate the rest of us as to how President Romney would have acted to neutralize the Putin threat?

He doesn't have a Nobel Peace Prize to shake so the magic answer appears on the bottom.

So you're implying that nobody EVER should have received a Nobel Peace Prize? Because guess what? EVERY SINGLE PEACE PRIZE WINNER LIVED WHILE NON-PEACEFUL SHIAT HAPPENED.

Every single Nobel Peace Prize winner actually did something to win it. What did your President do to deserve a Nobel Peace Prize three months into office?

He kept Republicans out of office.  You see how grateful the rest of the world was?


That was pretty much the reason he won. Bush and his policies were universally hated so the world was grateful when he was gone and McCain didn't win. The rest of the world got sick of Cowboy Diplomacy.

It's also why the GOP and their supporters keep projecting the "US has no respect in the world anymore", because they kept trying to overlook the fact the US had little respect around the world when they were in charge.

That all being said, I don't think Obama deserved it that early.
 
2014-03-03 11:17:07 PM

demaL-demaL-yeH: Agatha Crispy: LordJiro: Agatha Crispy: Epic Fap Session: How about one of you omniscient, patriotic experts on foreign relations educate the rest of us as to how President Romney would have acted to neutralize the Putin threat?

He doesn't have a Nobel Peace Prize to shake so the magic answer appears on the bottom.

So you're implying that nobody EVER should have received a Nobel Peace Prize? Because guess what? EVERY SINGLE PEACE PRIZE WINNER LIVED WHILE NON-PEACEFUL SHIAT HAPPENED.

Every single Nobel Peace Prize winner actually did something to win it. What did your President do to deserve a Nobel Peace Prize three months into office?

Theodore Roosevelt was another Nobel Peace Laureate. After conquering the Philippines. Your point?


Do you have mental deficiencies? Are you illiterate? President Obama won the Nobel Peace Prize three months into office for .......come on.....finish the sentence for us......
 
2014-03-03 11:18:18 PM

Agatha Crispy: So the only answer to the question was partisan bullshiat from the party who doesn't understand why the country is divided. It's okay, I didn't expect anyone to have an answer.


Why is this country divided?

/C'mon enlighten us
 
2014-03-03 11:18:40 PM

Mrtraveler01: Aigoo: Epic Fap Session: How about one of you omniscient, patriotic experts on foreign relations educate the rest of us as to how President Romney would have acted to neutralize the Putin threat?

He would have (wisely) done the same farking thing Obama is doing--and I am neither a fan of Obama nor Romney, but McCain and the rest of the virulently anti-Obamniacs need to shut the hell up. He is doing exactly what the Budapest documents call for, and he is staying within the bonds of international law.

Had he run out and done what Bush did in Iraq, THAT would be illegal. Yet it is EXACTLY what some are calling for--and EXACTLY what Putin has done.

With all due respect but Romney was an idiot when it came to foreign policy as evidenced by the foreign policy debate where he kept saying that Obama's policy doesn't work but when asked what he would do instead, said that he would basically do the same thing Obama did.

Obama's strength was actually foreign policy because the rest of the country was fatigued after a decade of neocons running things. That's why they were so desperate for Benghazi to stick and why they're so desperate to make this seem like it's Obama fault (even though in reality the same thing would've happened with Romney in charge).

But I agree, short of possibly enacting some sanctions, we really shouldn't do more than that.


That's what I just said...? ROFL

But to be perfectly fair, I'm no fan of Bush, Romney OR Obama. I just happen to agree that, in this case, Obama is doing exactly the right thing. With the exception of the excessive use of drones/drone strikes against American citizens, Obama's foreign policy of diplomacy first, shoot last is actually how foreign policy is supposed to be done, generally speaking. Note, neocons: not every disagreement has to end in a hail of bullets and/or bombs.
 
2014-03-03 11:19:11 PM

doglover: vernonFL: Six hundred rode into the valley of death.
Cannons to the left of them
Cannons to the right
Into the valley of death rode the six hundred

The light brigade were run headlong into artillery they didn't see and, once they were defeated by their own orders more than anything else their commander had his negros prepare a fancy lunch to console himself.

That poem is a bit of fiction.


You've got to give Tennyson some credit; he jotted the poem down in a few minutes after scanning a newspaper headline.  He didn't even bother to RTFA.

He'd be perfect for Fark.
 
2014-03-03 11:19:54 PM

rohar: PewterPirate55: Mrtraveler01:

Still nothing. I know its hard for conservatives to grasp such things but try...

What should have been done with Ukraine?

Ironic a liberal shill trolling for solutions when pointing and laughing and denying that Russia is a geo political foe in 2008 and 2012 got us here ... I have a solution let people that actually know what the problems are deal with them instead of pointing and laughing to win elections.  I'd rather vote for the guy that acknowledges the problem he might be looking for a solution the other guy get's blindsided just like the POTUS did.

Just to be clear, you're supporting intervention in the situation of some sort?  Either economically or militarily?  Maybe just push politically in Ukraine's favor through the UN?

remove China And Russia from G8 EU cuts off buying Oil from Russia... Show of support from US impose impose tariffs on all imported Chinese goods. China would drop support for Russia real quick.  Russia will wither economically without petrol dollars flowing from Europe ... meanwhile concede Crimea to Russia but admit the rest of the Ukraine to Nato and the EU and fortify the borders in eastern Europe and move missile defense into all eastern European members of NATO.  Draw the line instead of denying the threat.
 
2014-03-03 11:20:10 PM

Agatha Crispy: LordJiro: Agatha Crispy: Epic Fap Session: How about one of you omniscient, patriotic experts on foreign relations educate the rest of us as to how President Romney would have acted to neutralize the Putin threat?

He doesn't have a Nobel Peace Prize to shake so the magic answer appears on the bottom.

So you're implying that nobody EVER should have received a Nobel Peace Prize? Because guess what? EVERY SINGLE PEACE PRIZE WINNER LIVED WHILE NON-PEACEFUL SHIAT HAPPENED.

Every single Nobel Peace Prize winner actually did something to win it. What did your President do to deserve a Nobel Peace Prize three months into office?


Got elected as a man who wasn't George W. Bush?

Seriously, that is honestly the ONLY thing I can think of.
 
2014-03-03 11:20:21 PM

SunsetLament: Ow! That was my feelings!: spamdog: SunsetLament: gigantic pussy

You realize your retarded tough-guy posturing view of US foreign relations actually makes the USA weaker, don't you?

Other nations know they can count upon the USA's fear of looking cowardly or indecisive because of retards like you screaming for intervention.

People like you are the reason that the USA gets stuck in quagmires like Vietnam and Iraq, and the reason for anti-American Islamic terror which was birthed in the coup in Iran in the 50's.

Back then, the British manipulated the USA into intervening by playing up the communist threat.

And still here you are, being manipulated again.

Ya know what really makes America look like a pussy?
[filipspagnoli.files.wordpress.com image 850x635]

Our limp wrist President flailing his purse at Putin?


This, my friends, is what a man who hates himself for being gay sounds like.
 
2014-03-03 11:20:38 PM

LordJiro: Agatha Crispy: rohar: Agatha Crispy: LordJiro: Agatha Crispy: Epic Fap Session: How about one of you omniscient, patriotic experts on foreign relations educate the rest of us as to how President Romney would have acted to neutralize the Putin threat?

He doesn't have a Nobel Peace Prize to shake so the magic answer appears on the bottom.

So you're implying that nobody EVER should have received a Nobel Peace Prize? Because guess what? EVERY SINGLE PEACE PRIZE WINNER LIVED WHILE NON-PEACEFUL SHIAT HAPPENED.

Every single Nobel Peace Prize winner actually did something to win it. What did your President do to deserve a Nobel Peace Prize three months into office?

He kept Republicans out of office.  You see how grateful the rest of the world was?

Yes, the dead wedding parties in Yemen are overjoyed.

The hundreds of thousands, if not more, of Iranian civilians that would have been killed in the Iranian war McCain and Romney were dead-set on certainly are. As are the tens of thousands, if not more, American soldiers that would have died.


Guess what, farknut? The rest of the world is tired of having civilians killed in their sovereign countries because of internal U.S. politics. So these people bury their children because somebody plugged in the wrong co-ordinates but at least nobody in America suffered.
 
2014-03-03 11:21:04 PM

Agatha Crispy: demaL-demaL-yeH: Agatha Crispy: LordJiro: Agatha Crispy: Epic Fap Session: How about one of you omniscient, patriotic experts on foreign relations educate the rest of us as to how President Romney would have acted to neutralize the Putin threat?

He doesn't have a Nobel Peace Prize to shake so the magic answer appears on the bottom.

So you're implying that nobody EVER should have received a Nobel Peace Prize? Because guess what? EVERY SINGLE PEACE PRIZE WINNER LIVED WHILE NON-PEACEFUL SHIAT HAPPENED.

Every single Nobel Peace Prize winner actually did something to win it. What did your President do to deserve a Nobel Peace Prize three months into office?

Theodore Roosevelt was another Nobel Peace Laureate. After conquering the Philippines. Your point?

Do you have mental deficiencies? Are you illiterate? President Obama won the Nobel Peace Prize three months into office for .......come on.....finish the sentence for us......


Keeping the warmongers of the Republican Party out of office, thus averting an American invasion of Iran (with an attack on Syria next on the agenda), hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of deaths.

Instead of whining about it, Republicans should have taken a step back and taken a good long look at themselves, to see why the rest of the world was so farking happy that they were out of power. But nope, they doubled down.
 
2014-03-03 11:22:46 PM

PewterPirate55: rohar: PewterPirate55: Mrtraveler01:

Still nothing. I know its hard for conservatives to grasp such things but try...

What should have been done with Ukraine?

Ironic a liberal shill trolling for solutions when pointing and laughing and denying that Russia is a geo political foe in 2008 and 2012 got us here ... I have a solution let people that actually know what the problems are deal with them instead of pointing and laughing to win elections.  I'd rather vote for the guy that acknowledges the problem he might be looking for a solution the other guy get's blindsided just like the POTUS did.

Just to be clear, you're supporting intervention in the situation of some sort?  Either economically or militarily?  Maybe just push politically in Ukraine's favor through the UN?
remove China And Russia from G8 EU cuts off buying Oil from Russia... Show of support from US impose impose tariffs on all imported Chinese goods. China would drop support for Russia real quick.  Russia will wither economically without petrol dollars flowing from Europe ... meanwhile concede Crimea to Russia but admit the rest of the Ukraine to Nato and the EU and fortify the borders in eastern Europe and move missile defense into all eastern European members of NATO.  Draw the line instead of denying the threat.


All of this to help out a country that's continuing to sell advanced anti tank and anti aircraft weapons to Iran?  Have you lost your neocon mind?  WTF dude?

/baggers snuggling up to the "axis of evil"
//never woulda thunk
 
2014-03-03 11:23:01 PM

Mindlock: doglover: vernonFL: Six hundred rode into the valley of death.
Cannons to the left of them
Cannons to the right
Into the valley of death rode the six hundred

The light brigade were run headlong into artillery they didn't see and, once they were defeated by their own orders more than anything else their commander had his negros prepare a fancy lunch to console himself.

That poem is a bit of fiction.

You've got to give Tennyson some credit; he jotted the poem down in a few minutes after scanning a newspaper headline.  He didn't even bother to RTFA.

He'd be perfect for Fark.


Into the jaws of UFIA derped the six hundred.
 
2014-03-03 11:23:08 PM

Mrtraveler01: rohar: Agatha Crispy: LordJiro: Agatha Crispy: Epic Fap Session: How about one of you omniscient, patriotic experts on foreign relations educate the rest of us as to how President Romney would have acted to neutralize the Putin threat?

He doesn't have a Nobel Peace Prize to shake so the magic answer appears on the bottom.

So you're implying that nobody EVER should have received a Nobel Peace Prize? Because guess what? EVERY SINGLE PEACE PRIZE WINNER LIVED WHILE NON-PEACEFUL SHIAT HAPPENED.

Every single Nobel Peace Prize winner actually did something to win it. What did your President do to deserve a Nobel Peace Prize three months into office?

He kept Republicans out of office.  You see how grateful the rest of the world was?

That was pretty much the reason he won. Bush and his policies were universally hated so the world was grateful when he was gone and McCain didn't win. The rest of the world got sick of Cowboy Diplomacy.

It's also why the GOP and their supporters keep projecting the "US has no respect in the world anymore", because they kept trying to overlook the fact the US had little respect around the world when they were in charge.

That all being said, I don't think Obama deserved it that early.


This is why you look so arrogant and stupid. You try and tell the rest of the world what they think.
 
2014-03-03 11:23:38 PM

LordJiro: Instead of whining about it, Republicans should have taken a step back and taken a good long look at themselves, to see why the rest of the world was so farking happy that they were out of power. But nope, they doubled down.


I find it so funny when they say that the US has lost respect across the world with Obama in charge while overlooking the fact that the world had even less respect for us when Bush and the GOP were in charge.
 
2014-03-03 11:23:40 PM

Tatterdemalian: Darth_Lukecash: You are now farkied as an unpatriotic troll.  One thing you can say about Democrats, is that when there is a crisis, they do line up behind whomever the President is, even if they disagree with the methods, they ultimately support the President.You can't say that about party line conservatives.

Calling dissenters unpatriotic: It's Okay When WE Do It!

/remember when dissent was the highest form of patriotism?
//or so Mochael Moore kept proclaiming
///it might actually depend on whether you're doing it right, or doing it wrong


Hypocrisy swings both ways.  Conservatives demanded complete obedience to The President.

Here are my criteria.

1) I do not blame Presidents for any situations that happened outside US borders.  They are not demigods. They can't control the world.

I never blamed George W. Bush for 911.  Gore could have been in power and the Terrorist still may have been able to pull it off.

2) You can oppose Obamas methods or processes. That's fair game.

I did not oppose
Afghanistan War.  I did oppose the tactics aftwards.  I opposed the Iraq war because the history and reasons given were not sound.  Never did I blame conservatives or the Republican Party as the only guilty ones.  The Democratic Party gave their approval.  I blamed the ENTIRE government for those clusterfarks.

3) Do not make this a party or ideology complaint. This isn't an ideology debate- its people making bad decisions.


4) Bush made the argument that he had to have the ability to go to war, at a moments notice, so Congress gave him that ability.  Should not Obama have that same
consideration if he needs to negotiate with Putin?
 
2014-03-03 11:23:57 PM

Agatha Crispy: demaL-demaL-yeH: Agatha Crispy: LordJiro: Agatha Crispy: Epic Fap Session: How about one of you omniscient, patriotic experts on foreign relations educate the rest of us as to how President Romney would have acted to neutralize the Putin threat?

He doesn't have a Nobel Peace Prize to shake so the magic answer appears on the bottom.

So you're implying that nobody EVER should have received a Nobel Peace Prize? Because guess what? EVERY SINGLE PEACE PRIZE WINNER LIVED WHILE NON-PEACEFUL SHIAT HAPPENED.

Every single Nobel Peace Prize winner actually did something to win it. What did your President do to deserve a Nobel Peace Prize three months into office?

Theodore Roosevelt was another Nobel Peace Laureate. After conquering the Philippines. Your point?

Do you have mental deficiencies? Are you illiterate? President Obama won the Nobel Peace Prize three months into office for .......come on.....finish the sentence for us......


http://nobelpeaceprize.org/en_GB/laureates/laureates-2009/announce-2 00 9/
 
2014-03-03 11:24:47 PM

Agatha Crispy: LordJiro: Agatha Crispy: rohar: Agatha Crispy: LordJiro: Agatha Crispy: Epic Fap Session: How about one of you omniscient, patriotic experts on foreign relations educate the rest of us as to how President Romney would have acted to neutralize the Putin threat?

He doesn't have a Nobel Peace Prize to shake so the magic answer appears on the bottom.

So you're implying that nobody EVER should have received a Nobel Peace Prize? Because guess what? EVERY SINGLE PEACE PRIZE WINNER LIVED WHILE NON-PEACEFUL SHIAT HAPPENED.

Every single Nobel Peace Prize winner actually did something to win it. What did your President do to deserve a Nobel Peace Prize three months into office?

He kept Republicans out of office.  You see how grateful the rest of the world was?

Yes, the dead wedding parties in Yemen are overjoyed.

The hundreds of thousands, if not more, of Iranian civilians that would have been killed in the Iranian war McCain and Romney were dead-set on certainly are. As are the tens of thousands, if not more, American soldiers that would have died.

Guess what, farknut? The rest of the world is tired of having civilians killed in their sovereign countries because of internal U.S. politics. So these people bury their children because somebody plugged in the wrong co-ordinates but at least nobody in America suffered.


And that's exactly why 'Republicans being out of power' was seen as worthy for a peace prize. Because an invasion of Iran would have caused many, many, MANY more civilian casualties than a drone campaign.
 
2014-03-03 11:25:14 PM

Agatha Crispy: Mrtraveler01: rohar: Agatha Crispy: LordJiro: Agatha Crispy: Epic Fap Session: How about one of you omniscient, patriotic experts on foreign relations educate the rest of us as to how President Romney would have acted to neutralize the Putin threat?

He doesn't have a Nobel Peace Prize to shake so the magic answer appears on the bottom.

So you're implying that nobody EVER should have received a Nobel Peace Prize? Because guess what? EVERY SINGLE PEACE PRIZE WINNER LIVED WHILE NON-PEACEFUL SHIAT HAPPENED.

Every single Nobel Peace Prize winner actually did something to win it. What did your President do to deserve a Nobel Peace Prize three months into office?

He kept Republicans out of office.  You see how grateful the rest of the world was?

That was pretty much the reason he won. Bush and his policies were universally hated so the world was grateful when he was gone and McCain didn't win. The rest of the world got sick of Cowboy Diplomacy.

It's also why the GOP and their supporters keep projecting the "US has no respect in the world anymore", because they kept trying to overlook the fact the US had little respect around the world when they were in charge.

That all being said, I don't think Obama deserved it that early.

This is why you look so arrogant and stupid. You try and tell the rest of the world what they think.


So you're telling me that Bush and the GOP had a lot of respect in the world when they were in charge?

Thanks, I needed a good laugh.
 
2014-03-03 11:25:58 PM

LordJiro: Agatha Crispy: demaL-demaL-yeH: Agatha Crispy: LordJiro: Agatha Crispy: Epic Fap Session: How about one of you omniscient, patriotic experts on foreign relations educate the rest of us as to how President Romney would have acted to neutralize the Putin threat?

He doesn't have a Nobel Peace Prize to shake so the magic answer appears on the bottom.

So you're implying that nobody EVER should have received a Nobel Peace Prize? Because guess what? EVERY SINGLE PEACE PRIZE WINNER LIVED WHILE NON-PEACEFUL SHIAT HAPPENED.

Every single Nobel Peace Prize winner actually did something to win it. What did your President do to deserve a Nobel Peace Prize three months into office?

Theodore Roosevelt was another Nobel Peace Laureate. After conquering the Philippines. Your point?

Do you have mental deficiencies? Are you illiterate? President Obama won the Nobel Peace Prize three months into office for .......come on.....finish the sentence for us......

Keeping the warmongers of the Republican Party out of office, thus averting an American invasion of Iran (with an attack on Syria next on the agenda), hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of deaths.

Instead of whining about it, Republicans should have taken a step back and taken a good long look at themselves, to see why the rest of the world was so farking happy that they were out of power. But nope, they doubled down.


"The world" is much more educated than you think. You nimrods keep calling one another names but the rest of the world knows there is no difference between Republicans and Democrats. Just different P.R. machines.
 
2014-03-03 11:26:33 PM

Agatha Crispy: Mrtraveler01: rohar: Agatha Crispy: LordJiro: Agatha Crispy: Epic Fap Session: How about one of you omniscient, patriotic experts on foreign relations educate the rest of us as to how President Romney would have acted to neutralize the Putin threat?

He doesn't have a Nobel Peace Prize to shake so the magic answer appears on the bottom.

So you're implying that nobody EVER should have received a Nobel Peace Prize? Because guess what? EVERY SINGLE PEACE PRIZE WINNER LIVED WHILE NON-PEACEFUL SHIAT HAPPENED.

Every single Nobel Peace Prize winner actually did something to win it. What did your President do to deserve a Nobel Peace Prize three months into office?

He kept Republicans out of office.  You see how grateful the rest of the world was?

That was pretty much the reason he won. Bush and his policies were universally hated so the world was grateful when he was gone and McCain didn't win. The rest of the world got sick of Cowboy Diplomacy.

It's also why the GOP and their supporters keep projecting the "US has no respect in the world anymore", because they kept trying to overlook the fact the US had little respect around the world when they were in charge.

That all being said, I don't think Obama deserved it that early.

This is why you look so arrogant and stupid. You try and tell the rest of the world what they think.


Or, y'know, he paid attention to what the rest of the world was saying when Bush was telling everyone that they were cowards and terrorist-lovers for not supporting his little adventure in Iraq.
 
2014-03-03 11:28:54 PM

Agatha Crispy: LordJiro: Agatha Crispy: demaL-demaL-yeH: Agatha Crispy: LordJiro: Agatha Crispy: Epic Fap Session: How about one of you omniscient, patriotic experts on foreign relations educate the rest of us as to how President Romney would have acted to neutralize the Putin threat?

He doesn't have a Nobel Peace Prize to shake so the magic answer appears on the bottom.

So you're implying that nobody EVER should have received a Nobel Peace Prize? Because guess what? EVERY SINGLE PEACE PRIZE WINNER LIVED WHILE NON-PEACEFUL SHIAT HAPPENED.

Every single Nobel Peace Prize winner actually did something to win it. What did your President do to deserve a Nobel Peace Prize three months into office?

Theodore Roosevelt was another Nobel Peace Laureate. After conquering the Philippines. Your point?

Do you have mental deficiencies? Are you illiterate? President Obama won the Nobel Peace Prize three months into office for .......come on.....finish the sentence for us......

Keeping the warmongers of the Republican Party out of office, thus averting an American invasion of Iran (with an attack on Syria next on the agenda), hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of deaths.

Instead of whining about it, Republicans should have taken a step back and taken a good long look at themselves, to see why the rest of the world was so farking happy that they were out of power. But nope, they doubled down.

"The world" is much more educated than you think. You nimrods keep calling one another names but the rest of the world knows there is no difference between Republicans and Democrats. Just different P.R. machines.


Yeah yeah yeah, BSABSVR. We've heard that nonsense before.
 
2014-03-03 11:29:10 PM

Darth_Lukecash: Tatterdemalian: Darth_Lukecash: You are now farkied as an unpatriotic troll.  One thing you can say about Democrats, is that when there is a crisis, they do line up behind whomever the President is, even if they disagree with the methods, they ultimately support the President.You can't say that about party line conservatives.

Calling dissenters unpatriotic: It's Okay When WE Do It!

/remember when dissent was the highest form of patriotism?
//or so Mochael Moore kept proclaiming
///it might actually depend on whether you're doing it right, or doing it wrong

Hypocrisy swings both ways.  Conservatives demanded complete obedience to The President.

Here are my criteria.

1) I do not blame Presidents for any situations that happened outside US borders.  They are not demigods. They can't control the world.

I never blamed George W. Bush for 911.  Gore could have been in power and the Terrorist still may have been able to pull it off.

2) You can oppose Obamas methods or processes. That's fair game.

I did not opposeAfghanistan War.  I did oppose the tactics aftwards.  I opposed the Iraq war because the history and reasons given were not sound.  Never did I blame conservatives or the Republican Party as the only guilty ones.  The Democratic Party gave their approval.  I blamed the ENTIRE government for those clusterfarks.

3) Do not make this a party or ideology complaint. This isn't an ideology debate- its people making bad decisions.


4) Bush made the argument that he had to have the ability to go to war, at a moments notice, so Congress gave him that ability.  Should not Obama have that sameconsideration if he needs to negotiate with Putin?


You are now favorited as someone who, even if I disagree with, actually uses salient facts. But I thought Obama already has the War Powers Act? Did that change?
 
2014-03-03 11:29:27 PM

rohar: PewterPirate55: rohar: PewterPirate55: Mrtraveler01:

Still nothing. I know its hard for conservatives to grasp such things but try...

What should have been done with Ukraine?

Ironic a liberal shill trolling for solutions when pointing and laughing and denying that Russia is a geo political foe in 2008 and 2012 got us here ... I have a solution let people that actually know what the problems are deal with them instead of pointing and laughing to win elections.  I'd rather vote for the guy that acknowledges the problem he might be looking for a solution the other guy get's blindsided just like the POTUS did.

Just to be clear, you're supporting intervention in the situation of some sort?  Either economically or militarily?  Maybe just push politically in Ukraine's favor through the UN?
remove China And Russia from G8 EU cuts off buying Oil from Russia... Show of support from US impose impose tariffs on all imported Chinese goods. China would drop support for Russia real quick.  Russia will wither economically without petrol dollars flowing from Europe ... meanwhile concede Crimea to Russia but admit the rest of the Ukraine to Nato and the EU and fortify the borders in eastern Europe and move missile defense into all eastern European members of NATO.  Draw the line instead of denying the threat.

All of this to help out a country that's continuing to sell advanced anti tank and anti aircraft weapons to Iran?  Have you lost your neocon mind?  WTF dude?

/baggers snuggling up to the "axis of evil"
//never woulda thunk


there you go again lobbing names instead of offering solutions.

Obama has the walk softly portion of Teddy down to an art but Putin is beating him at waving the big stick.
 
2014-03-03 11:31:17 PM

PewterPirate55: Obama has the walk softly portion of Teddy down to an art but Putin is beating him at waving the big stick.


If you're going to be snarky, at least get the farking saying right.
 
2014-03-03 11:31:56 PM

Mrtraveler01: Agatha Crispy: Mrtraveler01: rohar: Agatha Crispy: LordJiro: Agatha Crispy: Epic Fap Session: How about one of you omniscient, patriotic experts on foreign relations educate the rest of us as to how President Romney would have acted to neutralize the Putin threat?

He doesn't have a Nobel Peace Prize to shake so the magic answer appears on the bottom.

So you're implying that nobody EVER should have received a Nobel Peace Prize? Because guess what? EVERY SINGLE PEACE PRIZE WINNER LIVED WHILE NON-PEACEFUL SHIAT HAPPENED.

Every single Nobel Peace Prize winner actually did something to win it. What did your President do to deserve a Nobel Peace Prize three months into office?

He kept Republicans out of office.  You see how grateful the rest of the world was?

That was pretty much the reason he won. Bush and his policies were universally hated so the world was grateful when he was gone and McCain didn't win. The rest of the world got sick of Cowboy Diplomacy.

It's also why the GOP and their supporters keep projecting the "US has no respect in the world anymore", because they kept trying to overlook the fact the US had little respect around the world when they were in charge.

That all being said, I don't think Obama deserved it that early.

This is why you look so arrogant and stupid. You try and tell the rest of the world what they think.

So you're telling me that Bush and the GOP had a lot of respect in the world when they were in charge?

Thanks, I needed a good laugh.


Just as much respect as Obama has....very little. But I can tell you most people I know thought Bush was just a dumb son of another president while many more feel Obama is calculating and arrogant.
 
2014-03-03 11:34:21 PM

LordJiro: Agatha Crispy: LordJiro: Agatha Crispy: demaL-demaL-yeH: Agatha Crispy: LordJiro: Agatha Crispy: Epic Fap Session: How about one of you omniscient, patriotic experts on foreign relations educate the rest of us as to how President Romney would have acted to neutralize the Putin threat?

He doesn't have a Nobel Peace Prize to shake so the magic answer appears on the bottom.

So you're implying that nobody EVER should have received a Nobel Peace Prize? Because guess what? EVERY SINGLE PEACE PRIZE WINNER LIVED WHILE NON-PEACEFUL SHIAT HAPPENED.

Every single Nobel Peace Prize winner actually did something to win it. What did your President do to deserve a Nobel Peace Prize three months into office?

Theodore Roosevelt was another Nobel Peace Laureate. After conquering the Philippines. Your point?

Do you have mental deficiencies? Are you illiterate? President Obama won the Nobel Peace Prize three months into office for .......come on.....finish the sentence for us......

Keeping the warmongers of the Republican Party out of office, thus averting an American invasion of Iran (with an attack on Syria next on the agenda), hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of deaths.

Instead of whining about it, Republicans should have taken a step back and taken a good long look at themselves, to see why the rest of the world was so farking happy that they were out of power. But nope, they doubled down.

"The world" is much more educated than you think. You nimrods keep calling one another names but the rest of the world knows there is no difference between Republicans and Democrats. Just different P.R. machines.

Yeah yeah yeah, BSABSVR. We've heard that nonsense before.


Really don't know what that means and don't really care. You should go down to Wal-Mart and get some more potato chips.
 
2014-03-03 11:34:56 PM
PewterPirate55:

Obama has the walk softly portion of Teddy down to an art but Putin is beating him at waving the big stick.

I thought that Russia made that illegal?
 
2014-03-03 11:35:53 PM

Mrtraveler01: PewterPirate55: Obama has the walk softly portion of Teddy down to an art but Putin is beating him at waving the big stick.

If you're going to be snarky, at least get the farking saying right.


so which are you troll or shill?
 
2014-03-03 11:36:24 PM

Agatha Crispy: Just as much respect as Obama has....very little. But I can tell you most people I know thought Bush was just a dumb son of another president while many more feel Obama is calculating and arrogant.


I've seen the stupidity of the Australian Tea Party.
I did not expect for there to be a Portuguese Tea Party chapter.
/BSAB, Really?
 
2014-03-03 11:36:39 PM

PewterPirate55: rohar: PewterPirate55: rohar: PewterPirate55: Mrtraveler01:

Still nothing. I know its hard for conservatives to grasp such things but try...

What should have been done with Ukraine?

Ironic a liberal shill trolling for solutions when pointing and laughing and denying that Russia is a geo political foe in 2008 and 2012 got us here ... I have a solution let people that actually know what the problems are deal with them instead of pointing and laughing to win elections.  I'd rather vote for the guy that acknowledges the problem he might be looking for a solution the other guy get's blindsided just like the POTUS did.

Just to be clear, you're supporting intervention in the situation of some sort?  Either economically or militarily?  Maybe just push politically in Ukraine's favor through the UN?
remove China And Russia from G8 EU cuts off buying Oil from Russia... Show of support from US impose impose tariffs on all imported Chinese goods. China would drop support for Russia real quick.  Russia will wither economically without petrol dollars flowing from Europe ... meanwhile concede Crimea to Russia but admit the rest of the Ukraine to Nato and the EU and fortify the borders in eastern Europe and move missile defense into all eastern European members of NATO.  Draw the line instead of denying the threat.

All of this to help out a country that's continuing to sell advanced anti tank and anti aircraft weapons to Iran?  Have you lost your neocon mind?  WTF dude?

/baggers snuggling up to the "axis of evil"
//never woulda thunk

there you go again lobbing names instead of offering solutions.

Obama has the walk softly portion of Teddy down to an art but Putin is beating him at waving the big stick.


Again?  I've been keeping count, so far that's once.

Beating Obama?  How?  They invaded a country that's been supplying weapons to our "enemies".  On that level, he did us a solid.  Beyond that, he gave us the opportunity to take out a large trading competitor in Russia.  Before this is over, we'll double our foreign customers for petrochemicals and we'll make a fortune on commodities.

China's tepid on this whole mess.  No need to touch them.  Meanwhile the administration is already putting all of your goals in to place with the exception of conceding Crimea.  Given that, what exactly is your criticism of this administration?
 
2014-03-03 11:38:49 PM

PewterPirate55: Mrtraveler01: PewterPirate55: Obama has the walk softly portion of Teddy down to an art but Putin is beating him at waving the big stick.

If you're going to be snarky, at least get the farking saying right.

so which are you troll or shill?


I'm a guy on Fark. What does that fall under?
 
2014-03-03 11:40:18 PM

demaL-demaL-yeH: Agatha Crispy: Just as much respect as Obama has....very little. But I can tell you most people I know thought Bush was just a dumb son of another president while many more feel Obama is calculating and arrogant.

I've seen the stupidity of the Australian Tea Party.
I did not expect for there to be a Portuguese Tea Party chapter.
/BSAB, Really?


It goes back decades, maybe centuries.  I visited Portugal a few times as a teen.  They've got folks that could teach derp to the Tea Party.
 
2014-03-03 11:40:30 PM

rohar: PewterPirate55: rohar: PewterPirate55: rohar: PewterPirate55: Mrtraveler01:

Still nothing. I know its hard for conservatives to grasp such things but try...

What should have been done with Ukraine?

Ironic a liberal shill trolling for solutions when pointing and laughing and denying that Russia is a geo political foe in 2008 and 2012 got us here ... I have a solution let people that actually know what the problems are deal with them instead of pointing and laughing to win elections.  I'd rather vote for the guy that acknowledges the problem he might be looking for a solution the other guy get's blindsided just like the POTUS did.

Just to be clear, you're supporting intervention in the situation of some sort?  Either economically or militarily?  Maybe just push politically in Ukraine's favor through the UN?
remove China And Russia from G8 EU cuts off buying Oil from Russia... Show of support from US impose impose tariffs on all imported Chinese goods. China would drop support for Russia real quick.  Russia will wither economically without petrol dollars flowing from Europe ... meanwhile concede Crimea to Russia but admit the rest of the Ukraine to Nato and the EU and fortify the borders in eastern Europe and move missile defense into all eastern European members of NATO.  Draw the line instead of denying the threat.

All of this to help out a country that's continuing to sell advanced anti tank and anti aircraft weapons to Iran?  Have you lost your neocon mind?  WTF dude?

/baggers snuggling up to the "axis of evil"
//never woulda thunk

there you go again lobbing names instead of offering solutions.

Obama has the walk softly portion of Teddy down to an art but Putin is beating him at waving the big stick.

Again?  I've been keeping count, so far that's once.

Beating Obama?  How?  They invaded a country that's been supplying weapons to our "enemies".  On that level, he did us a solid.  Beyond that, he gave us the opportunity to take out a large trading competito ...


They really want to think that the same thing wouldn't have happened if President Romney was running things...although in actuality they probably would have.
 
2014-03-03 11:40:40 PM

Agatha Crispy: LordJiro: Agatha Crispy: Epic Fap Session: How about one of you omniscient, patriotic experts on foreign relations educate the rest of us as to how President Romney would have acted to neutralize the Putin threat?

He doesn't have a Nobel Peace Prize to shake so the magic answer appears on the bottom.

So you're implying that nobody EVER should have received a Nobel Peace Prize? Because guess what? EVERY SINGLE PEACE PRIZE WINNER LIVED WHILE NON-PEACEFUL SHIAT HAPPENED.

Every single Nobel Peace Prize winner actually did something to win it. What did your President do to deserve a Nobel Peace Prize three months into office?


President Obama himself said that he did not deserve the award, though that's SOP with the Nobel Peace Prize.  The people who awarded it to him probably did so in advance, thinking that he was going to usher in an era of peace -- or at least not-Dubya -- and in that they were mistaken.  His real achievement was to show that in a democracy, a member of a disadvantaged minority could rise to the highest office in his country -- a lesson that perhaps the Crimean Russians could have taken instead of crying for Uncle Vlad to invade.
 
2014-03-03 11:41:51 PM

Mrtraveler01: They really want to think that the same thing wouldn't have happened if President Romney was running things...although in actuality they probably would have.


We'd already be attacking.  To defend a country supplying our problems.  Fugh.
 
2014-03-03 11:43:09 PM

demaL-demaL-yeH: Agatha Crispy: Just as much respect as Obama has....very little. But I can tell you most people I know thought Bush was just a dumb son of another president while many more feel Obama is calculating and arrogant.

I've seen the stupidity of the Australian Tea Party.
I did not expect for there to be a Portuguese Tea Party chapter.
/BSAB, Really?


This is why America is so sad. Other countries have coalition governments, citizens often change every election depending on platform. But not America, you must wear labels and regardless of how the government screws up you must defend it if it has the same label. And anyone not wearing you're label is evil even if they do the exact same thing as your candidate did. And nobody knows or cares about your BSAB bullshiat. They care about being spied upon or getting hit with a drone. So you go ahead and watch whatever news channel wears your label but I have to go to bed, sad little political puppet.
 
2014-03-03 11:44:12 PM

rohar: PewterPirate55: rohar: PewterPirate55: rohar: PewterPirate55: Mrtraveler01:

Still nothing. I know its hard for conservatives to grasp such things but try...

What should have been done with Ukraine?

Ironic a liberal shill trolling for solutions when pointing and laughing and denying that Russia is a geo political foe in 2008 and 2012 got us here ... I have a solution let people that actually know what the problems are deal with them instead of pointing and laughing to win elections.  I'd rather vote for the guy that acknowledges the problem he might be looking for a solution the other guy get's blindsided just like the POTUS did.

Just to be clear, you're supporting intervention in the situation of some sort?  Either economically or militarily?  Maybe just push politically in Ukraine's favor through the UN?
remove China And Russia from G8 EU cuts off buying Oil from Russia... Show of support from US impose impose tariffs on all imported Chinese goods. China would drop support for Russia real quick.  Russia will wither economically without petrol dollars flowing from Europe ... meanwhile concede Crimea to Russia but admit the rest of the Ukraine to Nato and the EU and fortify the borders in eastern Europe and move missile defense into all eastern European members of NATO.  Draw the line instead of denying the threat.

All of this to help out a country that's continuing to sell advanced anti tank and anti aircraft weapons to Iran?  Have you lost your neocon mind?  WTF dude?

/baggers snuggling up to the "axis of evil"
//never woulda thunk

there you go again lobbing names instead of offering solutions.

Obama has the walk softly portion of Teddy down to an art but Putin is beating him at waving the big stick.

Again?  I've been keeping count, so far that's once.

Beating Obama?  How?  They invaded a country that's been supplying weapons to our "enemies".  On that level, he did us a solid.  Beyond that, he gave us the opportunity to take out a large trading competito ...


denying it was an issue in the first place...  how about being proactive instead of reactive ... If dumbass Palin can even tell that the Ukraine is the next target after Georgia how about saying hmmm what can we do to make sure it doesnt happen ...  FWIW I hate you for making me admit Palin was right for once ... I now must cleanse my soul.
 
2014-03-03 11:44:47 PM

PewterPirate55: Ironic a liberal shill trolling for solutions when pointing and laughing and denying that Russia is a geo political foe in 2008 and 2012 got us here ... I have a solution let people that actually know what the problems are deal with them instead of pointing and laughing to win elections. I'd rather vote for the guy that acknowledges the problem he might be looking for a solution the other guy get's blindsided just like the POTUS did.


If you honestly believe that chest-thumping by Presidents McCain or Romney would deter Putin, then you don't understand the guy at all.  He believes that he's the smartest man in the room and that it is his mission to act as a counterweight to US power.  He's KGB.  He is not going to be intimidated by a doddering old man or a trust fund baby any more than he was by W.  Obama didn't set up this situation, Putin did, he was just waiting for the opportunity to execute the plan.
 
2014-03-03 11:46:06 PM

Agatha Crispy: This is why America is so sad. Other countries have coalition governments


Because we don't have a Parliamentary system.
 
2014-03-03 11:47:41 PM

Mentat: PewterPirate55: Ironic a liberal shill trolling for solutions when pointing and laughing and denying that Russia is a geo political foe in 2008 and 2012 got us here ... I have a solution let people that actually know what the problems are deal with them instead of pointing and laughing to win elections. I'd rather vote for the guy that acknowledges the problem he might be looking for a solution the other guy get's blindsided just like the POTUS did.

If you honestly believe that chest-thumping by Presidents McCain or Romney would deter Putin, then you don't understand the guy at all.  He believes that he's the smartest man in the room and that it is his mission to act as a counterweight to US power.  He's KGB.  He is not going to be intimidated by a doddering old man or a trust fund baby any more than he was by W.  Obama didn't set up this situation, Putin did, he was just waiting for the opportunity to execute the plan.


Yeah, Putin doesn't give a shiat what we think. He's determined to create Soviet Union II: Electric Boogaloo regardless of our stance on it.

Just look at how intimidated Putin was by Bush when he invaded Georgia.
 
2014-03-03 11:48:06 PM

PewterPirate55: rohar: PewterPirate55: rohar: PewterPirate55: rohar: PewterPirate55: Mrtraveler01:

Still nothing. I know its hard for conservatives to grasp such things but try...

What should have been done with Ukraine?

Ironic a liberal shill trolling for solutions when pointing and laughing and denying that Russia is a geo political foe in 2008 and 2012 got us here ... I have a solution let people that actually know what the problems are deal with them instead of pointing and laughing to win elections.  I'd rather vote for the guy that acknowledges the problem he might be looking for a solution the other guy get's blindsided just like the POTUS did.

Just to be clear, you're supporting intervention in the situation of some sort?  Either economically or militarily?  Maybe just push politically in Ukraine's favor through the UN?
remove China And Russia from G8 EU cuts off buying Oil from Russia... Show of support from US impose impose tariffs on all imported Chinese goods. China would drop support for Russia real quick.  Russia will wither economically without petrol dollars flowing from Europe ... meanwhile concede Crimea to Russia but admit the rest of the Ukraine to Nato and the EU and fortify the borders in eastern Europe and move missile defense into all eastern European members of NATO.  Draw the line instead of denying the threat.

All of this to help out a country that's continuing to sell advanced anti tank and anti aircraft weapons to Iran?  Have you lost your neocon mind?  WTF dude?

/baggers snuggling up to the "axis of evil"
//never woulda thunk

there you go again lobbing names instead of offering solutions.

Obama has the walk softly portion of Teddy down to an art but Putin is beating him at waving the big stick.

Again?  I've been keeping count, so far that's once.

Beating Obama?  How?  They invaded a country that's been supplying weapons to our "enemies".  On that level, he did us a solid.  Beyond that, he gave us the opportunity to take out a large trading co ...


Why would we prevent it?  You're assuming it's existence is in our best interest.  I'd suggest that's questionable at best.
 
2014-03-03 11:48:13 PM
Uh oh...  it appears that with the pull back in US leadership in the world...  the Fark Circle the Wagons and Protect Obama (FCWPO)  crowd is struggling to fill the void left behind.

What should Obama DO?

he he... too funny.
 
2014-03-03 11:49:50 PM

netcentric: Uh oh...  it appears that with the pull back in US leadership in the world...


Heh...thats funny. You assume the US still had leadership in the world prior to Obama taking office.
 
2014-03-03 11:50:08 PM

Mrtraveler01: Mentat: PewterPirate55: Ironic a liberal shill trolling for solutions when pointing and laughing and denying that Russia is a geo political foe in 2008 and 2012 got us here ... I have a solution let people that actually know what the problems are deal with them instead of pointing and laughing to win elections. I'd rather vote for the guy that acknowledges the problem he might be looking for a solution the other guy get's blindsided just like the POTUS did.

If you honestly believe that chest-thumping by Presidents McCain or Romney would deter Putin, then you don't understand the guy at all.  He believes that he's the smartest man in the room and that it is his mission to act as a counterweight to US power.  He's KGB.  He is not going to be intimidated by a doddering old man or a trust fund baby any more than he was by W.  Obama didn't set up this situation, Putin did, he was just waiting for the opportunity to execute the plan.

Yeah, Putin doesn't give a shiat what we think. He's determined to create Soviet Union II: Electric Boogaloo regardless of our stance on it.

Just look at how intimidated Putin was by Bush when he invaded Georgia.


Then farking nuke Moscow and be done with it.
 
2014-03-03 11:52:37 PM
Mrtraveler01: Mentat: PewterPirate55: Ironic a liberal shill trolling for solutions when pointing and laughing and denying that Russia is a geo political foe in 2008 and 2012 got us here ... I have a solution let people that actually know what the problems are deal with them instead of pointing and laughing to win elections. I'd rather vote for the guy that acknowledges the problem he might be looking for a solution the other guy get's blindsided just like the POTUS did.

If you honestly believe that chest-thumping by Presidents McCain or Romney would deter Putin, then you don't understand the guy at all.  He believes that he's the smartest man in the room and that it is his mission to act as a counterweight to US power.  He's KGB.  He is not going to be intimidated by a doddering old man or a trust fund baby any more than he was by W.  Obama didn't set up this situation, Putin did, he was just waiting for the opportunity to execute the plan.

Yeah, Putin doesn't give a shiat what we think. He's determined to create Soviet Union II: Electric Boogaloo regardless of our stance on it.

Just look at how intimidated Putin was by Bush when he invaded Georgia.

Fear makes one think twice whn your opponent is weak there is no fear project power drw red lines and be willing to follow thru. The cold war kept Russia in check if it takes another one so be it but damn dont let another Iron curtain descend on Eastern Europe.
 
2014-03-03 11:56:02 PM

PewterPirate55: The cold war kept Russia in check if it takes another one so be it but damn dont let another Iron curtain descend on Eastern Europe.


No...no it didn't. If anything, it resulted in the USSR getting so carried away with the spending and the overall Cold War against the US that it collapsed under its own weight as a result of it.

That and Gorbechov and Glasnost had its own fair share, but the Cold War didn't keep anything in check.
 
2014-03-03 11:56:40 PM

Mrtraveler01: Mentat: PewterPirate55: Ironic a liberal shill trolling for solutions when pointing and laughing and denying that Russia is a geo political foe in 2008 and 2012 got us here ... I have a solution let people that actually know what the problems are deal with them instead of pointing and laughing to win elections. I'd rather vote for the guy that acknowledges the problem he might be looking for a solution the other guy get's blindsided just like the POTUS did.

If you honestly believe that chest-thumping by Presidents McCain or Romney would deter Putin, then you don't understand the guy at all.  He believes that he's the smartest man in the room and that it is his mission to act as a counterweight to US power.  He's KGB.  He is not going to be intimidated by a doddering old man or a trust fund baby any more than he was by W.  Obama didn't set up this situation, Putin did, he was just waiting for the opportunity to execute the plan.

Yeah, Putin doesn't give a shiat what we think. He's determined to create Soviet Union II: Electric Boogaloo regardless of our stance on it.

Just look at how intimidated Putin was by Bush when he invaded Georgia.


Which just goes to show that Putin isn't particularly bright. There is no way, given Russia's current economy, and the way the world stage has evolved since the Cold War, that a new USSR could survive. Once again, Russia couldn't even get its shiat together enough to pretty up the Olympic host city; if Putin seriously tries to re-form the USSR, it'll collapse faster than a cartoon soufflé.
 
2014-03-04 12:05:09 AM

Mrtraveler01: PewterPirate55: The cold war kept Russia in check if it takes another one so be it but damn dont let another Iron curtain descend on Eastern Europe.

No...no it didn't. If anything, it resulted in the USSR getting so carried away with the spending and the overall Cold War against the US that it collapsed under its own weight as a result of it.

That and Gorbechov and Glasnost had its own fair share, but the Cold War didn't keep anything in check.


by in check I mean they knew there was a united front against them against any imperialistic ideas it wasn't always militarily but the knew where that line was and didn't cross it. I ask you now where is that line now? My point is draw it now stop their expansion before they can get the band back together.
 
2014-03-04 12:07:48 AM

Agatha Crispy: demaL-demaL-yeH: Agatha Crispy: Just as much respect as Obama has....very little. But I can tell you most people I know thought Bush was just a dumb son of another president while many more feel Obama is calculating and arrogant.

I've seen the stupidity of the Australian Tea Party.
I did not expect for there to be a Portuguese Tea Party chapter.
/BSAB, Really?

This is why America is so sad. Other countries have coalition governments, citizens often change every election depending on platform. But not America, you must wear labels and regardless of how the government screws up you must defend it if it has the same label. And anyone not wearing you're label is evil even if they do the exact same thing as your candidate did. And nobody knows or cares about your BSAB bullshiat. They care about being spied upon or getting hit with a drone. So you go ahead and watch whatever news channel wears your label but I have to go to bed, sad little political puppet.


What's disturbing about your assumptions is that there has been only one presidential election where I voted for a major party candidate. For congressional elections, I've tended to favor third party candidates, depending on their positions. The Republican Party took on the platform of the John Birch Society some time in the late 1970s after Ford's defeat. And that is an evil, hateful agenda. The Democratic Party responded to this tectonic shift by moving right, themselves.

What's most disturbing is that you suffer from the political blindness that you accuse me of having. Why would you worry about surveillance, since you seem to miss having the generals in charge?

I can hold my own in a political discussion, a political economy discussion, an economics discussion, or a history discussion. Let's have one of those, instead of this nonsense.

The Chinese are playing their own long game. They are against Russian expansionism, just as they are against American expansionism. They want to weaken us both: Russia, for Siberia. The US, for the Pacific Basin. They want India neutered. They have a huge population with staggeringly large resource needs, pollution problems that make rivers catching fire in the US look pristine, serious ethnic divisions, and an economy that lives and dies on exports.
 
2014-03-04 12:15:49 AM

Agatha Crispy: Darth_Lukecash: Tatterdemalian: Darth_Lukecash: You are now farkied as an unpatriotic troll.  One thing you can say about Democrats, is that when there is a crisis, they do line up behind whomever the President is, even if they disagree with the methods, they ultimately support the President.You can't say that about party line conservatives.

Calling dissenters unpatriotic: It's Okay When WE Do It!

/remember when dissent was the highest form of patriotism?
//or so Mochael Moore kept proclaiming
///it might actually depend on whether you're doing it right, or doing it wrong

Hypocrisy swings both ways.  Conservatives demanded complete obedience to The President.

Here are my criteria.

1) I do not blame Presidents for any situations that happened outside US borders.  They are not demigods. They can't control the world.

I never blamed George W. Bush for 911.  Gore could have been in power and the Terrorist still may have been able to pull it off.

2) You can oppose Obamas methods or processes. That's fair game.

I did not opposeAfghanistan War.  I did oppose the tactics aftwards.  I opposed the Iraq war because the history and reasons given were not sound.  Never did I blame conservatives or the Republican Party as the only guilty ones.  The Democratic Party gave their approval.  I blamed the ENTIRE government for those clusterfarks.

3) Do not make this a party or ideology complaint. This isn't an ideology debate- its people making bad decisions.


4) Bush made the argument that he had to have the ability to go to war, at a moments notice, so Congress gave him that ability.  Should not Obama have that sameconsideration if he needs to negotiate with Putin?

You are now favorited as someone who, even if I disagree with, actually uses salient facts. But I thought Obama already has the War Powers Act? Did that change?


I will farkie you as the same.

Yes Obama has war power acts. Bush got war powers to use if he needed to go to war for a longer period of time.

Obama had taken some crap over Lybian action. And since Obama wants to lead differently, he will or should go to the congress before taking that drastic step.

Chances are, it won't go that far. They'll negotiate something that involves Ukraine getting split.
 
2014-03-04 12:16:57 AM
files.dave-lister.webnode.cz
 
2014-03-04 12:25:00 AM
Ctrl+F "kipper"

WHY THE FARK ARE THERE 19 RESULTS?
 
2014-03-04 12:31:51 AM

Agatha Crispy: Mrtraveler01: That all being said, I don't think Obama deserved it that early.

This is why you look so arrogant and stupid. You try and tell the rest of the world what they think.


Are you planning to do anything in this thread besides insult everyone who tries to talk to you?
 
2014-03-04 12:38:27 AM
Unverified rumors that Yano's caught the Russian flu.

http://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/1zht05/unconfirme d_ report_that_viktor_yanukovich_has/

Bad day for Putin if it's the truth.
 
2014-03-04 12:59:46 AM

CygnusDarius: zimbomba63: Ow! That was my feelings!: It's 1979 all over again.
[www.bizpacreview.com image 530x260]

SWEET!  That means I'm 29 and single again. Thank you, FSM.

I wasn't even born in this crazy age! What must I do!?.


Id say your mother is in for a worse time than you are
 
2014-03-04 01:02:17 AM

netcentric: Uh oh... it appears that with the pull back in US leadership in the world... the Fark Circle the Wagons and Protect Obama (FCWPO) crowd is struggling to fill the void left behind.


You mean the pullback in American leadership that has put NATO right on Russia's borders and which has every former SSR trying like mad to join up?  That pull back in American leadership?  All of you morons saying that Russia would only stop if they properly feared us just don't get it.  They're already afraid because NATO is engulfing them.  Fear won't make them pull back, fear is causing them to do this in the first place.
 
2014-03-04 01:04:30 AM

Boojum2k: China flexing its muscles and looking hungrily at Japanese territory for its own ends.


Let 'em. China's been trying to invade Japan (and losing hilariously) for the better part of 800 years.

So far, it's cost them Taiwan, Korea, and the Ryukyus.
 
2014-03-04 01:06:04 AM

Mentat: netcentric: Uh oh... it appears that with the pull back in US leadership in the world... the Fark Circle the Wagons and Protect Obama (FCWPO) crowd is struggling to fill the void left behind.

You mean the pullback in American leadership that has put NATO right on Russia's borders and which has every former SSR trying like mad to join up?  That pull back in American leadership?  All of you morons saying that Russia would only stop if they properly feared us just don't get it.  They're already afraid because NATO is engulfing them.  Fear won't make them pull back, fear is causing them to do this in the first place.


If so, then Russia is shoving Ukraine into the ranks of NATO by doing this. Then they'll have to start asking themselves who's next.
 
2014-03-04 01:07:53 AM

Mentat: Fear won't make them pull back, fear is causing them to do this in the first place.


You're right.

This isn't the move of a bear on the rampage.  It's a high risk, last ditch play from a cornered, wounded bear.

If Obama can convince Europe to go along with sanctions and embargoes, Russia's economy will be worse than Greece within the year.  If the oligarch's western assets are frozen, homegrown knives will be out for Putin's blood.
 
2014-03-04 01:16:23 AM
RandomRandom:

If Obama can convince Europe to go along with sanctions and embargoes, Russia's economy will be worse than Greece within the year.  If the oligarch's western assets are frozen, homegrown knives will be out for Putin's blood.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101462500

From an economic standpoint it's already making a pretty huge difference for Russia.
 
2014-03-04 01:16:46 AM

RandomRandom: Mentat: Fear won't make them pull back, fear is causing them to do this in the first place.

You're right.

This isn't the move of a bear on the rampage.  It's a high risk, last ditch play from a cornered, wounded bear.

If Obama can convince Europe to go along with sanctions and embargoes, Russia's economy will be worse than Greece within the year.  If the oligarch's western assets are frozen, homegrown knives will be out for Putin's blood.


And given Russia's history with invasions, I can understand their concern.  I also understand why Eastern Europe wants to stay as far away from them politically as possible and I understand Western Europe's desire to build a buffer zone between them in Europe.
 
2014-03-04 03:06:30 AM
 
2014-03-04 03:20:31 AM

orangehat: RandomRandom:

If Obama can convince Europe to go along with sanctions and embargoes, Russia's economy will be worse than Greece within the year.  If the oligarch's western assets are frozen, homegrown knives will be out for Putin's blood.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101462500

From an economic standpoint it's already making a pretty huge difference for Russia.


I'm guessing Putin thinks the spike in gas and oil prices will make up the difference.

// norway's gonna make a fortune on this
/// not happy about that at all
 
2014-03-04 03:27:36 AM

Aigoo: grimlock1972: Seriously people even if Obama ordered troops to the Ukraine its very likely we would not yet have boots on the ground, it takes time to organize and set a line of supply and to build a coalition of nations to support the effort.

Seriously the only US Military assets that might have been able to respond by now is the US sixth fleet based in Naples Italy.

Any troops in Europe would need time to supply and permission would be needed to move through allied nations before they could roll for Ukraine.

A small force could be sent by air but not enough to do much of anything beside put Moscow on notice, provided once again we got okay to route through allied air space.

Incirlik Air Base (Turkey) would like a word. So would Aitos Logistics Center (Bulgaria), Souda Bay Naval Logistics Center (Greece), Bezmer Air Base (Bulgaria), and Graf Ignatievo Air Base (Bulgaria).

That's not really a "small" force (though admittedly, some of the forces in Turkey may be tied up in other places at the moment), and two separate logistics centers to supply. And yes, Army logistics (and non-logistics) personnel do, in fact, train in loading Air Force planes for supply drops. I was never supply, though I was in a combat field unit (intel), and I took the training course. We've also been known to hitch a ride with the Air Force on occasion. So, yes, we certainly could field a rapid response force if the Ukrainians could clear one of the airfields. Buddy of mine ran an Army Airfield for about a decade before he retired and before that, he WAS Army rapid response force--we can get troops on the ground anywhere in the world within 24 hours if absolutely necessary--and frequently have done so.


I stand corrected but its possible given the nature of this situation all avenues of diplomacy will be exhausted first , and i think a rapid response force would be sent to Kiev rather than Crimea where it would be flying into hornet's nest.

The sixth fleet alone might be enough to scare the russians out of crimea.
 
2014-03-04 04:48:09 AM

grimlock1972: Aigoo: grimlock1972: Seriously people even if Obama ordered troops to the Ukraine its very likely we would not yet have boots on the ground, it takes time to organize and set a line of supply and to build a coalition of nations to support the effort.

Seriously the only US Military assets that might have been able to respond by now is the US sixth fleet based in Naples Italy.

Any troops in Europe would need time to supply and permission would be needed to move through allied nations before they could roll for Ukraine.

A small force could be sent by air but not enough to do much of anything beside put Moscow on notice, provided once again we got okay to route through allied air space.

Incirlik Air Base (Turkey) would like a word. So would Aitos Logistics Center (Bulgaria), Souda Bay Naval Logistics Center (Greece), Bezmer Air Base (Bulgaria), and Graf Ignatievo Air Base (Bulgaria).

That's not really a "small" force (though admittedly, some of the forces in Turkey may be tied up in other places at the moment), and two separate logistics centers to supply. And yes, Army logistics (and non-logistics) personnel do, in fact, train in loading Air Force planes for supply drops. I was never supply, though I was in a combat field unit (intel), and I took the training course. We've also been known to hitch a ride with the Air Force on occasion. So, yes, we certainly could field a rapid response force if the Ukrainians could clear one of the airfields. Buddy of mine ran an Army Airfield for about a decade before he retired and before that, he WAS Army rapid response force--we can get troops on the ground anywhere in the world within 24 hours if absolutely necessary--and frequently have done so.

I stand corrected but its possible given the nature of this situation all avenues of diplomacy will be exhausted first , and i think a rapid response force would be sent to Kiev rather than Crimea where it would be flying into hornet's nest.

The sixth fleet alone might be enough to ...


The Ukrainians wouldn't have to do anything.  If the US decided to use military intervention, we'd just plop some hovercraft full of Marines from whichever MEUs are afloat at the moment onto the beach and clear the airfields ourselves.

I deployed with the 22nd Marine Expeditionary Unit in 2009/2010.  Trust me, that's how we roll.
 
2014-03-04 05:24:59 AM

T-Servo: I find it funny that so many of the conservative analyses of the trouble we're now in, focus on why Obama is at fault and don't really say anything about Putin being involved.

Also note that the US is pushing for strong measures like trade sanctions (Germany is against that ) or cutting Russia out of the international banking system (UK is against that), but we need the whole farking EU to agree to those stronger measures. Those US diplomats the other week who said 'Fark the EU!' were just ahead of the game, I guess.

/but of course Bush would've gotten their support, everyone in Europe loved GW


Brit here. Err...I don't know about the rest of Europe, but (ANECDOTAL warning) myself and everyone I knew thought Bush was a farking moron.
 
2014-03-04 07:33:09 AM

Darwins Point-ed Stick: T-Servo: I find it funny that so many of the conservative analyses of the trouble we're now in, focus on why Obama is at fault and don't really say anything about Putin being involved.

Also note that the US is pushing for strong measures like trade sanctions (Germany is against that ) or cutting Russia out of the international banking system (UK is against that), but we need the whole farking EU to agree to those stronger measures. Those US diplomats the other week who said 'Fark the EU!' were just ahead of the game, I guess.

/but of course Bush would've gotten their support, everyone in Europe loved GW

Brit here. Err...I don't know about the rest of Europe, but (ANECDOTAL warning) myself and everyone I knew thought Bush was a farking moron.


... and so did most of America.  The problem is that Bush won with a minority in 2000 thanks to a technicality, and more than a few Democrats stayed home rather than voting for Kerry because he was such a boring candidate.

Me?  I was 17 and couldn't vote yet.  Would have been Kerry, though.
 
2014-03-04 08:08:35 AM

Agatha Crispy: You nimrods keep calling one another names...

Do you have mental deficiencies? Are you illiterate?

Guess what, farknut?

This is why you look so arrogant and stupid.

You should go down to Wal-Mart and get some more potato chips.


So, when you call people names, (as in the multiple examples I've provided) you're just showing off your debate chops? You have a startling lack of self awareness and are very nasty.  Maybe you should work on your personal demons for a while before casting judgement on an entire country.

I'm sure wherever you're from is quite the utopia.
 
2014-03-04 08:43:11 AM

Epic Fap Session: Agatha Crispy: You nimrods keep calling one another names...

Do you have mental deficiencies? Are you illiterate?

Guess what, farknut?

This is why you look so arrogant and stupid.

You should go down to Wal-Mart and get some more potato chips.

So, when you call people names, (as in the multiple examples I've provided) you're just showing off your debate chops? You have a startling lack of self awareness and are very nasty.  Maybe you should work on your personal demons for a while before casting judgement on an entire country.

I'm sure wherever you're from is quite the utopia.


Never mind that they're using the name "nimrod" improperly. Nimrod means "mighty hunter."
 
2014-03-04 12:26:11 PM

RexTalionis: Epic Fap Session: Agatha Crispy: You nimrods keep calling one another names...

Do you have mental deficiencies? Are you illiterate?

Guess what, farknut?

This is why you look so arrogant and stupid.

You should go down to Wal-Mart and get some more potato chips.

So, when you call people names, (as in the multiple examples I've provided) you're just showing off your debate chops? You have a startling lack of self awareness and are very nasty.  Maybe you should work on your personal demons for a while before casting judgement on an entire country.

I'm sure wherever you're from is quite the utopia.

Never mind that they're using the name "nimrod" improperly. Nimrod means "mighty hunter."


Which is why I use it in gun thread.  Because fudd is just demeaning.
 
2014-03-04 06:24:11 PM

that one guy from that one place: jim32rr: [cdn.washingtonexaminer.biz image 550x550]

Troops behind fence, farthest left: Steve Carell?


Could be, mighty damn close. Of course it might just be one of the Carelltov's, not all of them made it out
 
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