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(Jerusalem Post)   Russia hasn't issued an ultimatum for Ukraine's military to surrender. Probably   (jpost.com) divider line 163
    More: Followup, Crimean, Ukraine, Russia, Black Sea Fleet, Cooperation in Europe, Viktor Yanukovych, trade restriction, russian foreign ministry  
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3832 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Mar 2014 at 4:03 PM (30 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-03 02:06:28 PM
Russia is denying that they made any ultimatums. But witnesses claim they heard a Russian warship demand that a Ukranian ship surrender. So fog of war, etc.

img.fark.net
 
2014-03-03 03:34:48 PM
Again? Is it 12 hours this time or just 10?
 
2014-03-03 04:02:57 PM
i don't think they've asked the entire Ukrainian military to surrender. But I'm sure they've asked individual bases, ships or outposts around Crimea to surrender. Hey, it can't hurt to ask. If any of them do surrender, you can occupy that position w/o firing a shot and consolidate hold in the region.

Thus far, it seems to me that there hasn't been any violence against Ukrainian/Russians or against the Russian military. But the Ruskies seem to be provoking the conflict to have an excuse to stay. Unlike Georgia which allowed Russia to provoke it and justify their invasion, Ukrainians are playing it cool. I haven't decided if they are smart and learned from the Georgia catastrophe or if they are just so disorganized and weakend by the change in government that they are just unable to take the bait. But Putin may run out of patience if the Ukrainians don't make a move and I don't think he's above dressing some of his own men as Ukrainians and pretend they attacked.
 
2014-03-03 04:07:52 PM
Everybody now,

Springtime for Putin and Moscovy,
 
2014-03-03 04:07:54 PM
In Post-Soviet Russia ultimatum issues you?
 
2014-03-03 04:09:01 PM

kbronsito: i don't think they've asked the entire Ukrainian military to surrender. But I'm sure they've asked individual bases, ships or outposts around Crimea to surrender. Hey, it can't hurt to ask. If any of them do surrender, you can occupy that position w/o firing a shot and consolidate hold in the region.

Thus far, it seems to me that there hasn't been any violence against Ukrainian/Russians or against the Russian military. But the Ruskies seem to be provoking the conflict to have an excuse to stay. Unlike Georgia which allowed Russia to provoke it and justify their invasion, Ukrainians are playing it cool. I haven't decided if they are smart and learned from the Georgia catastrophe or if they are just so disorganized and weakend by the change in government that they are just unable to take the bait. But Putin may run out of patience if the Ukrainians don't make a move and I don't think he's above dressing some of his own men as Ukrainians and pretend they attacked.


I think Putin's biggest mistake here is moving too fast without preparing the ground first.  He should have waited for the Crimean government to ask for protection, or for some idiot to throw a rock at a Russian base.  Something you can use to show legitimacy.
 
2014-03-03 04:09:13 PM
I just want to know if it's time to crack open my neighbors' skulls for their sweat, sweat think meat.
 
2014-03-03 04:10:13 PM

CleanAndPure: Everybody now,

Springtime for Putin and Moscovy,


Winter for Poland and France....

/ Germans, save us
 
2014-03-03 04:10:49 PM
Is that Bilbo on the left?
 
2014-03-03 04:11:05 PM
So we got that going for us
Which is nice
 
2014-03-03 04:11:13 PM

ArkPanda: kbronsito: i don't think they've asked the entire Ukrainian military to surrender. But I'm sure they've asked individual bases, ships or outposts around Crimea to surrender. Hey, it can't hurt to ask. If any of them do surrender, you can occupy that position w/o firing a shot and consolidate hold in the region.

Thus far, it seems to me that there hasn't been any violence against Ukrainian/Russians or against the Russian military. But the Ruskies seem to be provoking the conflict to have an excuse to stay. Unlike Georgia which allowed Russia to provoke it and justify their invasion, Ukrainians are playing it cool. I haven't decided if they are smart and learned from the Georgia catastrophe or if they are just so disorganized and weakend by the change in government that they are just unable to take the bait. But Putin may run out of patience if the Ukrainians don't make a move and I don't think he's above dressing some of his own men as Ukrainians and pretend they attacked.

I think Putin's biggest mistake here is moving too fast without preparing the ground first.  He should have waited for the Crimean government to ask for protection, or for some idiot to throw a rock at a Russian base.  Something you can use to show legitimacy.


It does seem very rushed and unorganized like he's running close to a deadline.  Maybe he thought that the new Ukrainian government would rush lots of troops to Crimea and then tell the Russians to bugger off.

Seems very disorganized and amateur-hour to me.

That said, they're playing it very cool, throwing their troops up against Ukrainian bases and demanding surrender and waiting for someone to take a potshot at them so they'd have an excuse to fire back.
 
2014-03-03 04:11:20 PM

kbronsito: I don't think he's above dressing some of his own men as Ukrainians and pretend they attacked.


upload.wikimedia.org

Former lieutenant colonel in the KGB and FSB might not be above using subterfuge to achieve his goals? Perish the thought.
 
2014-03-03 04:11:21 PM

ArkPanda: kbronsito: i don't think they've asked the entire Ukrainian military to surrender. But I'm sure they've asked individual bases, ships or outposts around Crimea to surrender. Hey, it can't hurt to ask. If any of them do surrender, you can occupy that position w/o firing a shot and consolidate hold in the region.

Thus far, it seems to me that there hasn't been any violence against Ukrainian/Russians or against the Russian military. But the Ruskies seem to be provoking the conflict to have an excuse to stay. Unlike Georgia which allowed Russia to provoke it and justify their invasion, Ukrainians are playing it cool. I haven't decided if they are smart and learned from the Georgia catastrophe or if they are just so disorganized and weakend by the change in government that they are just unable to take the bait. But Putin may run out of patience if the Ukrainians don't make a move and I don't think he's above dressing some of his own men as Ukrainians and pretend they attacked.

I think Putin's biggest mistake here is moving too fast without preparing the ground first.  He should have waited for the Crimean government to ask for protection, or for some idiot to throw a rock at a Russian base.  Something you can use to show legitimacy.



He doesn't need to.  He knows nobody has the balls to draw a red line and back it up with action.  He's got pretty much free run of Eastern Europe and the former Soviet buffer states because everybody else has shown they are unwilling to stand up to him.
 
2014-03-03 04:12:49 PM

HeWhoHasNoName: ArkPanda: kbronsito: i don't think they've asked the entire Ukrainian military to surrender. But I'm sure they've asked individual bases, ships or outposts around Crimea to surrender. Hey, it can't hurt to ask. If any of them do surrender, you can occupy that position w/o firing a shot and consolidate hold in the region.

Thus far, it seems to me that there hasn't been any violence against Ukrainian/Russians or against the Russian military. But the Ruskies seem to be provoking the conflict to have an excuse to stay. Unlike Georgia which allowed Russia to provoke it and justify their invasion, Ukrainians are playing it cool. I haven't decided if they are smart and learned from the Georgia catastrophe or if they are just so disorganized and weakend by the change in government that they are just unable to take the bait. But Putin may run out of patience if the Ukrainians don't make a move and I don't think he's above dressing some of his own men as Ukrainians and pretend they attacked.

I think Putin's biggest mistake here is moving too fast without preparing the ground first.  He should have waited for the Crimean government to ask for protection, or for some idiot to throw a rock at a Russian base.  Something you can use to show legitimacy.


He doesn't need to.  He knows nobody has the balls to draw a red line and back it up with action.  He's got pretty much free run of Eastern Europe and the former Soviet buffer states because everybody else has shown they are unwilling to stand up to him.


I know that's what it looks like inside of your head, but reality's a tad bit different.
 
2014-03-03 04:12:58 PM
As a veteran, I feel for those guys in the Ukrainian military.

One week you have a pro-Russian president and you're coking and joking with your Russian buddies in Crimea.

Next week, everything's changed and now your the frontline told to hold the territory.

Hope it works out for them.
 
2014-03-03 04:13:37 PM
Obama and his Legion of Fools:  Dear Vlady Poot-poot, I don't want to talk to you no more, you empty headed animal food trough wiper. I fart in your general direction. Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries.
 
2014-03-03 04:13:47 PM

iheartscotch: CleanAndPure: Everybody now,

Springtime for Putin and Moscovy,

Winter for Poland and France....

/ Germans, save us


Stop silly allusions, all Putin wants is peace, PEACE!
 
2014-03-03 04:14:49 PM

HeWhoHasNoName: ArkPanda: kbronsito: i don't think they've asked the entire Ukrainian military to surrender. But I'm sure they've asked individual bases, ships or outposts around Crimea to surrender. Hey, it can't hurt to ask. If any of them do surrender, you can occupy that position w/o firing a shot and consolidate hold in the region.

Thus far, it seems to me that there hasn't been any violence against Ukrainian/Russians or against the Russian military. But the Ruskies seem to be provoking the conflict to have an excuse to stay. Unlike Georgia which allowed Russia to provoke it and justify their invasion, Ukrainians are playing it cool. I haven't decided if they are smart and learned from the Georgia catastrophe or if they are just so disorganized and weakend by the change in government that they are just unable to take the bait. But Putin may run out of patience if the Ukrainians don't make a move and I don't think he's above dressing some of his own men as Ukrainians and pretend they attacked.

I think Putin's biggest mistake here is moving too fast without preparing the ground first.  He should have waited for the Crimean government to ask for protection, or for some idiot to throw a rock at a Russian base.  Something you can use to show legitimacy.


He doesn't need to.  He knows nobody has the balls to draw a red line and back it up with action.  He's got pretty much free run of Eastern Europe and the former Soviet buffer states because everybody else has shown they are unwilling to stand up to him.


That's so cute. Please give us the details of your plans.

What exactly and realistically would "standing up" to him involve?
 
2014-03-03 04:14:50 PM
http://www.c-span.org/live/

Putin is driving the whole of Eastern Europe into NATO's arms.
 
2014-03-03 04:18:35 PM

Infernalist: http://www.c-span.org/live/

Putin is driving the whole of Eastern Europe into NATO's arms.


My diplomat to enraged 'merican translator is broken.  Should I be throwing things at the screen or be given freedom hugs?
 
2014-03-03 04:18:52 PM
076dd0a50e0c1255009e-bd4b8aabaca29897bc751dfaf75b290c.r40.cf1.rackcdn.com

It's not gonna be an ultimatum! All it is, is a demand for unconditional surrender, under threat of deadly force! That's all!
 
2014-03-03 04:19:28 PM
 
2014-03-03 04:21:28 PM

AcademGreen: Should I be throwing things at the screen or be given freedom hugs?


Channel your inner John Bolton and dismiss it all as dildoes.
 
2014-03-03 04:21:36 PM
It would be awesome if Cyprus vetoed EU sanctions against Russia.

They'd be so farked next time their economy collapses.
 
2014-03-03 04:22:02 PM

MrBallou: HeWhoHasNoName: ArkPanda: kbronsito: i don't think they've asked the entire Ukrainian military to surrender. But I'm sure they've asked individual bases, ships or outposts around Crimea to surrender. Hey, it can't hurt to ask. If any of them do surrender, you can occupy that position w/o firing a shot and consolidate hold in the region.

Thus far, it seems to me that there hasn't been any violence against Ukrainian/Russians or against the Russian military. But the Ruskies seem to be provoking the conflict to have an excuse to stay. Unlike Georgia which allowed Russia to provoke it and justify their invasion, Ukrainians are playing it cool. I haven't decided if they are smart and learned from the Georgia catastrophe or if they are just so disorganized and weakend by the change in government that they are just unable to take the bait. But Putin may run out of patience if the Ukrainians don't make a move and I don't think he's above dressing some of his own men as Ukrainians and pretend they attacked.

I think Putin's biggest mistake here is moving too fast without preparing the ground first.  He should have waited for the Crimean government to ask for protection, or for some idiot to throw a rock at a Russian base.  Something you can use to show legitimacy.


He doesn't need to.  He knows nobody has the balls to draw a red line and back it up with action.  He's got pretty much free run of Eastern Europe and the former Soviet buffer states because everybody else has shown they are unwilling to stand up to him.

That's so cute. Please give us the details of your plans.

What exactly and realistically would "standing up" to him involve?


The only answers I've gotten to that are "Well, we should have bombed the crap out of Syria and Iran to show we  are led by warmongering psychopaths are STRONG, instead of getting both to dismantle their weapons programs under international supervision.

Very few chickenhawks have the balls to outright say they want World War III.
 
2014-03-03 04:22:06 PM
Can't we just UPS an overnight delivery of the NATO agreement to Ukraine? Even discount it down to the low price of $9.99 per month?

/ that even cheaper the a Netflix subscription!
/ and you get a free Russian removal.
 
2014-03-03 04:23:19 PM

MrBallou: What exactly and realistically would "standing up" to him involve?


Acting like Reagan.

e.g., Boycotting the Olympics and arming the Mujahadeen.
 
2014-03-03 04:23:20 PM
What would Teddy Roosevelt do?  He'd be getting ready to do a number six dance up Putin's ass
 
2014-03-03 04:23:21 PM

Infernalist: HeWhoHasNoName: ArkPanda: kbronsito: i don't think they've asked the entire Ukrainian military to surrender. But I'm sure they've asked individual bases, ships or outposts around Crimea to surrender. Hey, it can't hurt to ask. If any of them do surrender, you can occupy that position w/o firing a shot and consolidate hold in the region.

Thus far, it seems to me that there hasn't been any violence against Ukrainian/Russians or against the Russian military. But the Ruskies seem to be provoking the conflict to have an excuse to stay. Unlike Georgia which allowed Russia to provoke it and justify their invasion, Ukrainians are playing it cool. I haven't decided if they are smart and learned from the Georgia catastrophe or if they are just so disorganized and weakend by the change in government that they are just unable to take the bait. But Putin may run out of patience if the Ukrainians don't make a move and I don't think he's above dressing some of his own men as Ukrainians and pretend they attacked.

I think Putin's biggest mistake here is moving too fast without preparing the ground first.  He should have waited for the Crimean government to ask for protection, or for some idiot to throw a rock at a Russian base.  Something you can use to show legitimacy.


He doesn't need to.  He knows nobody has the balls to draw a red line and back it up with action.  He's got pretty much free run of Eastern Europe and the former Soviet buffer states because everybody else has shown they are unwilling to stand up to him.

I know that's what it looks like inside of your head, but reality's a tad bit different.


Uh huh.  So you believe that if Putin had waited until some Tartar threw a brick at a Russian conscript, and then gone balls deep into the Crimea, that wouldn't have been a mistake, and would have avoided a strong response from the NATO powers and other western nations.

Instead, he didn't bother with some ridiculous Marco Polo Bridge Piss-call type excuse, the Russian Federation military is entirely occupying the Autonomous Republic of Crimea, taking over military and civil installations and government buildings, disarming Ukrainian forces, threatening the holdouts, Putin has gotten the sum total of some foot-stamping and petulant breath-holding from NATO nations, and you think those events not only happened in a vacuum, but were a realpolitik mistake.

'Cause as far as I can see, Putin just retook a key former Soviet buffer region for the total cost of having to momentarily listen to some western leaders biatch and moan at him.  It cost him literally nothing and he is facing no consequences.

The only country showing any intent of telling him to fark off and backing it up is Poland.
 
2014-03-03 04:23:32 PM
China's UN dude is being about as neutral as possible. Unsurprising.
 
2014-03-03 04:24:46 PM

iheartscotch: I just want to know if it's time to crack open my neighbors' skulls for their sweat, sweat think meat.


You mean there's a time when this is not the appropriate action to take?

I learn something new everyday....
 
2014-03-03 04:25:26 PM

Somacandra: AcademGreen: Should I be throwing things at the screen or be given freedom hugs?

Channel your inner John Bolton and dismiss it all as dildoes.


img.fark.net
Angry walrus is angry.  So, I guess I should throw things.
 
2014-03-03 04:26:51 PM

HeWhoHasNoName: Infernalist: HeWhoHasNoName: ArkPanda: kbronsito: i don't think they've asked the entire Ukrainian military to surrender. But I'm sure they've asked individual bases, ships or outposts around Crimea to surrender. Hey, it can't hurt to ask. If any of them do surrender, you can occupy that position w/o firing a shot and consolidate hold in the region.

Thus far, it seems to me that there hasn't been any violence against Ukrainian/Russians or against the Russian military. But the Ruskies seem to be provoking the conflict to have an excuse to stay. Unlike Georgia which allowed Russia to provoke it and justify their invasion, Ukrainians are playing it cool. I haven't decided if they are smart and learned from the Georgia catastrophe or if they are just so disorganized and weakend by the change in government that they are just unable to take the bait. But Putin may run out of patience if the Ukrainians don't make a move and I don't think he's above dressing some of his own men as Ukrainians and pretend they attacked.

I think Putin's biggest mistake here is moving too fast without preparing the ground first.  He should have waited for the Crimean government to ask for protection, or for some idiot to throw a rock at a Russian base.  Something you can use to show legitimacy.


He doesn't need to.  He knows nobody has the balls to draw a red line and back it up with action.  He's got pretty much free run of Eastern Europe and the former Soviet buffer states because everybody else has shown they are unwilling to stand up to him.

I know that's what it looks like inside of your head, but reality's a tad bit different.

Uh huh.  So you believe that if Putin had waited until some Tartar threw a brick at a Russian conscript, and then gone balls deep into the Crimea, that wouldn't have been a mistake, and would have avoided a strong response from the NATO powers and other western nations.

Instead, he didn't bother with some ridiculous Marco Polo Bridge Piss-call type excuse, the ...


You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.  This debacle has cost the Russian economy $56.4 Billion since Friday.  That's roughly a day's worth of business and tomorrow it'll be as bad, if not worse.  The grand total of the Russian banking system's reserves is somewhere in the neighborhood of $425 Billion, so they simply can't take too much more of this free-fall.

This is before any sanctions are put in place and before any asset seizures.  This is as good as it's going to be for Russia unless they back down immediately.  If they don't stop, they're going to end up with a collapsed economy and a worthless currency.
 
2014-03-03 04:28:42 PM
LordJiro:

The only answers I've gotten to that are "Well, we should have bombed the crap out of Syria and Iran to show we  are led by warmongering psychopaths are STRONG, instead of getting both to dismantle their weapons programs under international supervision.

Very few chickenhawks have the balls to outright say they want World War I ...


I've seen these talking points in every Ukrainian thread so far.

Obama brought this "strong response' bullshiat on him self.

Most people wish he just kept his mouth shut and quit drawing red lines daring someone to cross.

It's like he's sitting at a bar and looks down at the biker gang on the other end and says "You look at me again there's gonna be some serious repercussions for you."

Then a half hour later, when he's laying in a bathroom stall in the fetal position, he's wondering why everybody thinks violence is the answer.

Shut up, drink your beer, go home.
 
2014-03-03 04:29:02 PM

HeWhoHasNoName: Infernalist: HeWhoHasNoName: ArkPanda: kbronsito: i don't think they've asked the entire Ukrainian military to surrender. But I'm sure they've asked individual bases, ships or outposts around Crimea to surrender. Hey, it can't hurt to ask. If any of them do surrender, you can occupy that position w/o firing a shot and consolidate hold in the region.

Thus far, it seems to me that there hasn't been any violence against Ukrainian/Russians or against the Russian military. But the Ruskies seem to be provoking the conflict to have an excuse to stay. Unlike Georgia which allowed Russia to provoke it and justify their invasion, Ukrainians are playing it cool. I haven't decided if they are smart and learned from the Georgia catastrophe or if they are just so disorganized and weakend by the change in government that they are just unable to take the bait. But Putin may run out of patience if the Ukrainians don't make a move and I don't think he's above dressing some of his own men as Ukrainians and pretend they attacked.

I think Putin's biggest mistake here is moving too fast without preparing the ground first.  He should have waited for the Crimean government to ask for protection, or for some idiot to throw a rock at a Russian base.  Something you can use to show legitimacy.


He doesn't need to.  He knows nobody has the balls to draw a red line and back it up with action.  He's got pretty much free run of Eastern Europe and the former Soviet buffer states because everybody else has shown they are unwilling to stand up to him.

I know that's what it looks like inside of your head, but reality's a tad bit different.

Uh huh.  So you believe that if Putin had waited until some Tartar threw a brick at a Russian conscript, and then gone balls deep into the Crimea, that wouldn't have been a mistake, and would have avoided a strong response from the NATO powers and other western nations.

Instead, he didn't bother with some ridiculous Marco Polo Bridge Piss-call type excuse, the ...


The US and the rest of NATO are figuring out how many 0s to add to the check so the Bosporus suddenly goes under indefinite repairs any time a Russia ship shows up

Grats on Crimea Putin, enjoy the bath tub and a smothering ruins of your stock market
 
2014-03-03 04:29:26 PM

HeWhoHasNoName: Infernalist: HeWhoHasNoName: ArkPanda: kbronsito: i don't think they've asked the entire Ukrainian military to surrender. But I'm sure they've asked individual bases, ships or outposts around Crimea to surrender. Hey, it can't hurt to ask. If any of them do surrender, you can occupy that position w/o firing a shot and consolidate hold in the region.

Thus far, it seems to me that there hasn't been any violence against Ukrainian/Russians or against the Russian military. But the Ruskies seem to be provoking the conflict to have an excuse to stay. Unlike Georgia which allowed Russia to provoke it and justify their invasion, Ukrainians are playing it cool. I haven't decided if they are smart and learned from the Georgia catastrophe or if they are just so disorganized and weakend by the change in government that they are just unable to take the bait. But Putin may run out of patience if the Ukrainians don't make a move and I don't think he's above dressing some of his own men as Ukrainians and pretend they attacked.

I think Putin's biggest mistake here is moving too fast without preparing the ground first.  He should have waited for the Crimean government to ask for protection, or for some idiot to throw a rock at a Russian base.  Something you can use to show legitimacy.


He doesn't need to.  He knows nobody has the balls to draw a red line and back it up with action.  He's got pretty much free run of Eastern Europe and the former Soviet buffer states because everybody else has shown they are unwilling to stand up to him.

I know that's what it looks like inside of your head, but reality's a tad bit different.

Uh huh.  So you believe that if Putin had waited until some Tartar threw a brick at a Russian conscript, and then gone balls deep into the Crimea, that wouldn't have been a mistake, and would have avoided a strong response from the NATO powers and other western nations.

Instead, he didn't bother with some ridiculous Marco Polo Bridge Piss-call type excuse, the ...


So?

No really, why should anyone give a shiat that a bit of ukraine they got from russia ~60 years ago and is full of russians is going to go back to being part of russia?
 
2014-03-03 04:29:28 PM

Somacandra: China's UN dude is being about as neutral as possible. Unsurprising.


A blatant condemnation isn't 'neutral.'
 
2014-03-03 04:29:36 PM
Kerry is a douche.  He really seems to have no idea what he is doing.
 
2014-03-03 04:29:57 PM
encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com
 
2014-03-03 04:30:27 PM

iheartscotch: I just want to know if it's time to crack open my neighbors' skulls for their sweat, sweat think meat.


itsapoptropicablog.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-03-03 04:30:50 PM

MrBallou: HeWhoHasNoName: ArkPanda: kbronsito: i don't think they've asked the entire Ukrainian military to surrender. But I'm sure they've asked individual bases, ships or outposts around Crimea to surrender. Hey, it can't hurt to ask. If any of them do surrender, you can occupy that position w/o firing a shot and consolidate hold in the region.

Thus far, it seems to me that there hasn't been any violence against Ukrainian/Russians or against the Russian military. But the Ruskies seem to be provoking the conflict to have an excuse to stay. Unlike Georgia which allowed Russia to provoke it and justify their invasion, Ukrainians are playing it cool. I haven't decided if they are smart and learned from the Georgia catastrophe or if they are just so disorganized and weakend by the change in government that they are just unable to take the bait. But Putin may run out of patience if the Ukrainians don't make a move and I don't think he's above dressing some of his own men as Ukrainians and pretend they attacked.

I think Putin's biggest mistake here is moving too fast without preparing the ground first.  He should have waited for the Crimean government to ask for protection, or for some idiot to throw a rock at a Russian base.  Something you can use to show legitimacy.


He doesn't need to.  He knows nobody has the balls to draw a red line and back it up with action.  He's got pretty much free run of Eastern Europe and the former Soviet buffer states because everybody else has shown they are unwilling to stand up to him.

That's so cute. Please give us the details of your plans.

What exactly and realistically would "standing up" to him involve?


It's simple really. Just ask WWRD?
 
2014-03-03 04:31:18 PM

ArkPanda: kbronsito: i don't think they've asked the entire Ukrainian military to surrender. But I'm sure they've asked individual bases, ships or outposts around Crimea to surrender. Hey, it can't hurt to ask. If any of them do surrender, you can occupy that position w/o firing a shot and consolidate hold in the region.

Thus far, it seems to me that there hasn't been any violence against Ukrainian/Russians or against the Russian military. But the Ruskies seem to be provoking the conflict to have an excuse to stay. Unlike Georgia which allowed Russia to provoke it and justify their invasion, Ukrainians are playing it cool. I haven't decided if they are smart and learned from the Georgia catastrophe or if they are just so disorganized and weakend by the change in government that they are just unable to take the bait. But Putin may run out of patience if the Ukrainians don't make a move and I don't think he's above dressing some of his own men as Ukrainians and pretend they attacked.

I think Putin's biggest mistake here is moving too fast without preparing the ground first.  He should have waited for the Crimean government to ask for protection, or for some idiot to throw a rock at a Russian base.  Something you can use to show legitimacy.


They did ask.
 
2014-03-03 04:32:37 PM

HeWhoHasNoName: Infernalist: HeWhoHasNoName: ArkPanda: kbronsito: i don't think they've asked the entire Ukrainian military to surrender. But I'm sure they've asked individual bases, ships or outposts around Crimea to surrender. Hey, it can't hurt to ask. If any of them do surrender, you can occupy that position w/o firing a shot and consolidate hold in the region.

Thus far, it seems to me that there hasn't been any violence against Ukrainian/Russians or against the Russian military. But the Ruskies seem to be provoking the conflict to have an excuse to stay. Unlike Georgia which allowed Russia to provoke it and justify their invasion, Ukrainians are playing it cool. I haven't decided if they are smart and learned from the Georgia catastrophe or if they are just so disorganized and weakend by the change in government that they are just unable to take the bait. But Putin may run out of patience if the Ukrainians don't make a move and I don't think he's above dressing some of his own men as Ukrainians and pretend they attacked.

I think Putin's biggest mistake here is moving too fast without preparing the ground first.  He should have waited for the Crimean government to ask for protection, or for some idiot to throw a rock at a Russian base.  Something you can use to show legitimacy.


He doesn't need to.  He knows nobody has the balls to draw a red line and back it up with action.  He's got pretty much free run of Eastern Europe and the former Soviet buffer states because everybody else has shown they are unwilling to stand up to him.

I know that's what it looks like inside of your head, but reality's a tad bit different.

Uh huh.  So you believe that if Putin had waited until some Tartar threw a brick at a Russian conscript, and then gone balls deep into the Crimea, that wouldn't have been a mistake, and would have avoided a strong response from the NATO powers and other western nations.

Instead, he didn't bother with some ridiculous Marco Polo Bridge Piss-call type excuse, the ...


Russia is too corrupt and poor to even fix up the city that hosted the farking Olympics, let alone take over and hold Ukraine and risk an embargo. They're protecting their interests in Crimea, and the HQ of their Black Sea fleet is one Hell of an interest.

But hey, I'm sure that, if the government of a foreign country that hosted an important American port was suddenly overthrown by violent anti-American forces, you'd like Obama to just let it happen?

/Putin's still a thug, and he's overdoing the response, but  pretending this is even remotely comparable to Nazi Germany, or a threat worth starting World War 3 over, is idiotic.
 
2014-03-03 04:32:37 PM

kbronsito: i don't think they've asked the entire Ukrainian military to surrender. But I'm sure they've asked individual bases, ships or outposts around Crimea to surrender. Hey, it can't hurt to ask. If any of them do surrender, you can occupy that position w/o firing a shot and consolidate hold in the region.

Thus far, it seems to me that there hasn't been any violence against Ukrainian/Russians or against the Russian military. But the Ruskies seem to be provoking the conflict to have an excuse to stay. Unlike Georgia which allowed Russia to provoke it and justify their invasion, Ukrainians are playing it cool. I haven't decided if they are smart and learned from the Georgia catastrophe or if they are just so disorganized and weakend by the change in government that they are just unable to take the bait. But Putin may run out of patience if the Ukrainians don't make a move and I don't think he's above dressing some of his own men as Ukrainians and pretend they attacked.


Smart.  We have seen it the whole way through.  Protesters taking over government buildings and then posting armed guards to prevent anyone from damaging the buildings, taking over the palace and treating it like a crime scene (gathering evidence and saving documents) instead of looting, and now refusing to get suckered into taking a first shot.
 
2014-03-03 04:32:52 PM
Just testing the waters...
 
2014-03-03 04:33:16 PM
UNSC Speeches From Nearly Every Speaker: "Every country should have the right to tend to internal matters without outside interference, Russia.  So back off Ukraine,"
 
2014-03-03 04:34:19 PM

iheartscotch: I just want to know if it's time to crack open my neighbors' skulls for their sweat, sweat think meat.


Personally, I'm wondering if I should have someone wake me now, or if I should say "Wake me when [some other event] happens".

Basically, I don't know if this is important enough yet for me to be awake for.
 
2014-03-03 04:35:05 PM

LordJiro: HeWhoHasNoName: Infernalist: HeWhoHasNoName: ArkPanda: kbronsito: i don't think they've asked the entire Ukrainian military to surrender. But I'm sure they've asked individual bases, ships or outposts around Crimea to surrender. Hey, it can't hurt to ask. If any of them do surrender, you can occupy that position w/o firing a shot and consolidate hold in the region.

Thus far, it seems to me that there hasn't been any violence against Ukrainian/Russians or against the Russian military. But the Ruskies seem to be provoking the conflict to have an excuse to stay. Unlike Georgia which allowed Russia to provoke it and justify their invasion, Ukrainians are playing it cool. I haven't decided if they are smart and learned from the Georgia catastrophe or if they are just so disorganized and weakend by the change in government that they are just unable to take the bait. But Putin may run out of patience if the Ukrainians don't make a move and I don't think he's above dressing some of his own men as Ukrainians and pretend they attacked.

I think Putin's biggest mistake here is moving too fast without preparing the ground first.  He should have waited for the Crimean government to ask for protection, or for some idiot to throw a rock at a Russian base.  Something you can use to show legitimacy.


He doesn't need to.  He knows nobody has the balls to draw a red line and back it up with action.  He's got pretty much free run of Eastern Europe and the former Soviet buffer states because everybody else has shown they are unwilling to stand up to him.

I know that's what it looks like inside of your head, but reality's a tad bit different.

Uh huh.  So you believe that if Putin had waited until some Tartar threw a brick at a Russian conscript, and then gone balls deep into the Crimea, that wouldn't have been a mistake, and would have avoided a strong response from the NATO powers and other western nations.

Instead, he didn't bother with some ridiculous Marco Polo Bridge Piss-call ...


We did nothing when Castro took over Cuba (immediately).  You're just using a bullshiat talking point crafted by a bunch of losers at RT.  Don't let them get any bonus vodka today
 
2014-03-03 04:35:06 PM

LordJiro: HeWhoHasNoName: Infernalist: HeWhoHasNoName: ArkPanda: kbronsito: i don't think they've asked the entire Ukrainian military to surrender. But I'm sure they've asked individual bases, ships or outposts around Crimea to surrender. Hey, it can't hurt to ask. If any of them do surrender, you can occupy that position w/o firing a shot and consolidate hold in the region.

Thus far, it seems to me that there hasn't been any violence against Ukrainian/Russians or against the Russian military. But the Ruskies seem to be provoking the conflict to have an excuse to stay. Unlike Georgia which allowed Russia to provoke it and justify their invasion, Ukrainians are playing it cool. I haven't decided if they are smart and learned from the Georgia catastrophe or if they are just so disorganized and weakend by the change in government that they are just unable to take the bait. But Putin may run out of patience if the Ukrainians don't make a move and I don't think he's above dressing some of his own men as Ukrainians and pretend they attacked.

I think Putin's biggest mistake here is moving too fast without preparing the ground first.  He should have waited for the Crimean government to ask for protection, or for some idiot to throw a rock at a Russian base.  Something you can use to show legitimacy.


He doesn't need to.  He knows nobody has the balls to draw a red line and back it up with action.  He's got pretty much free run of Eastern Europe and the former Soviet buffer states because everybody else has shown they are unwilling to stand up to him.

I know that's what it looks like inside of your head, but reality's a tad bit different.

Uh huh.  So you believe that if Putin had waited until some Tartar threw a brick at a Russian conscript, and then gone balls deep into the Crimea, that wouldn't have been a mistake, and would have avoided a strong response from the NATO powers and other western nations.

Instead, he didn't bother with some ridiculous Marco Polo Bridge Piss-call ...


I think we'd move our HQ to another port closer to our own land rather than conquer some other nation.
 
2014-03-03 04:35:30 PM

MrBallou: HeWhoHasNoName: ArkPanda: kbronsito: i don't think they've asked the entire Ukrainian military to surrender. But I'm sure they've asked individual bases, ships or outposts around Crimea to surrender. Hey, it can't hurt to ask. If any of them do surrender, you can occupy that position w/o firing a shot and consolidate hold in the region.

Thus far, it seems to me that there hasn't been any violence against Ukrainian/Russians or against the Russian military. But the Ruskies seem to be provoking the conflict to have an excuse to stay. Unlike Georgia which allowed Russia to provoke it and justify their invasion, Ukrainians are playing it cool. I haven't decided if they are smart and learned from the Georgia catastrophe or if they are just so disorganized and weakend by the change in government that they are just unable to take the bait. But Putin may run out of patience if the Ukrainians don't make a move and I don't think he's above dressing some of his own men as Ukrainians and pretend they attacked.

I think Putin's biggest mistake here is moving too fast without preparing the ground first.  He should have waited for the Crimean government to ask for protection, or for some idiot to throw a rock at a Russian base.  Something you can use to show legitimacy.


He doesn't need to.  He knows nobody has the balls to draw a red line and back it up with action.  He's got pretty much free run of Eastern Europe and the former Soviet buffer states because everybody else has shown they are unwilling to stand up to him.

That's so cute. Please give us the details of your plans.

What exactly and realistically would "standing up" to him involve?


Well, under leadership that actually faced the Soviets and knew how to contain their imperialism, after this kind of move we frequently had SAC doing increased patrols off the edge of Russian airspace, a CVN battle group immediately starting exercises in the Barents Sea, made a big deal about several SSBNs heading out to sea, started major exercises for US forces in Germany, and probably a few other things that weren't as public but were very much known and noticed by Moscow.  And we probably would have sent a destroyer into the Black Sea - possibly more, although we observe a treaty that normally forbids that.  Most likely a surface asset and one or more SSNs, probably at least one with Tomahawk VLS capability or a SEAL team onboard.

We didn't just start shooting people.  Only a retard would suggest that anybody opposing Putin is hoping for that.  But we did make it very clear that it was an extremely bad idea for Russia to just start shooting people, the way they have done historically at times.
 
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