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(Slate)   President Obama's big mistake in the Ukraine situation? Even suggesting there would be "consequences" for Russia if they invade Ukraine, because there are exactly two things we can do about it: jack, and shiat   (slate.com) divider line 276
    More: Obvious, President Obama, Ukraine, Russia, West Berlin, Nikita Khrushchev, Crimean, Russian Navy, Secretary of State John Kerry  
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1244 clicks; posted to Politics » on 03 Mar 2014 at 12:30 PM (28 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-03 09:57:22 AM
This reminds me of Bill Clinton constantly wagging his impotent finger at Saddam Hussein. we all saw what that got us. This is exactly why liberals have the deserved reputation for being pussies on the world stage.
 
2014-03-03 10:05:19 AM
We still have nukes, don't we?
 
2014-03-03 10:09:19 AM

NeoAnderthal: This reminds me of Bill Clinton constantly wagging his impotent finger at Saddam Hussein. we all saw what that got us. This is exactly why liberals have the deserved reputation for being pussies on the world stage.


It got us not having a trillion+ spent on an unnecessary war? It got us not having 4k dead soldiers and tens of thousands wounded?
 
2014-03-03 10:09:54 AM

NeoAnderthal: This reminds me of Bill Clinton constantly wagging his impotent finger at Saddam Hussein. we all saw what that got us. This is exactly why liberals have the deserved reputation for being pussies on the world stage.


Clinton enforced a no-fly zone against Saddam and periodically shot missiles at him.  Quite a finger waging.
 
2014-03-03 10:18:59 AM
The Russian economy, and therefore all of Putin's power, is based around the Oligarchs. If the West was the freeze their funds outside of the country and make it extremely hard for them to do business outside of the country, the Russian economy would crumble.
 
2014-03-03 10:31:15 AM

WTF Indeed: The Russian economy, and therefore all of Putin's power, is based around the Oligarchs. If the West was the freeze their funds outside of the country and make it extremely hard for them to do business outside of the country, the Russian economy would crumble.


It would probably also result in (1) gas immediately being shut off to Western Europe and (2) US access to Afghanistan being closed.

Frankly, I think it's a risk we can take.
 
2014-03-03 10:37:18 AM

WTF Indeed: The Russian economy, and therefore all of Putin's power, is based around the Oligarchs. If the West was the freeze their funds outside of the country and make it extremely hard for them to do business outside of the country, the Russian economy would crumble.


it's already in bad shape. and their markets are down 10 percent today. russia needs foreign investment. this is not going to work out well for putin.
 
2014-03-03 10:39:02 AM
The consequences will be to degrade Russia's economy, particularly the energy sector, by taking away their biggest customers. China would still mainline Russia's oil like a junkie but the EU has choices.
 
2014-03-03 10:42:15 AM
It's not so much we can't do something as much as we're willing to accept the consequences of doing something.
 
2014-03-03 11:02:05 AM

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: (1) gas immediately being shut off to Western Europe


Now that the US is one of the largest producers of fossil fuels and one of the largest gas producers, we're no longer buying up as much of the natural gas on the international markets, which leaves more free for European countries. Yes, it'll hurt, but they're not absolutely dependent on Gazprom.
 
2014-03-03 11:07:03 AM

RexTalionis: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: (1) gas immediately being shut off to Western Europe

Now that the US is one of the largest producers of fossil fuels and one of the largest gas producers, we're no longer buying up as much of the natural gas on the international markets, which leaves more free for European countries. Yes, it'll hurt, but they're not absolutely dependent on Gazprom.


True, but I was talking immediate effects. Rerouting gas supplies to Europe through different pipes/ships will take a bit of time.
 
2014-03-03 11:13:52 AM

NeoAnderthal: This reminds me of Bill Clinton constantly wagging his impotent finger at Saddam Hussein. we all saw what that got us. This is exactly why liberals have the deserved reputation for being pussies on the world stage.


Clinton attacked Iraq and in effect assured the removal of the WMDs but backing the UN weapon's inspectors.  Clinton is precisely the reason, the US didn't have to invade Iraq.  You sound infromed.
 
2014-03-03 12:02:10 PM

James!: NeoAnderthal: This reminds me of Bill Clinton constantly wagging his impotent finger at Saddam Hussein. we all saw what that got us. This is exactly why liberals have the deserved reputation for being pussies on the world stage.

Clinton enforced a no-fly zone against Saddam and periodically shot missiles at him.  Quite a finger waging.


Not long after Clinton took office, the CIA uncovered a plot by Saddam to assassinate George H.W. Bush. Clinton fired a bunch of cruise missiles into Baghdad for that one.
 
2014-03-03 12:18:38 PM

NeoAnderthal: This reminds me of Bill Clinton constantly wagging his impotent finger at Saddam Hussein. we all saw what that got us. This is exactly why liberals have the deserved reputation for being pussies on the world stage.


I love how your profile reads like Fox News talking points.  Awesome stuff.
 
2014-03-03 12:22:45 PM

Eddie Adams from Torrance: We still have nukes, don't we?


So do the Russians.
 
2014-03-03 12:22:46 PM
This is the dumbest talking point since the last time Obama was talked about.
 
2014-03-03 12:32:29 PM

NeoAnderthal: This reminds me of Bill Clinton constantly wagging his impotent finger at Saddam Hussein. we all saw what that got us. This is exactly why liberals have the deserved reputation for being pussies on the world stage.


Because you would do ...

[please fill in the blank]
 
2014-03-03 12:32:52 PM
Well if Obama wasn't so busy spying on us, he would have known what Putin was about to do.
 
2014-03-03 12:35:13 PM
Actually, there is a lot Obama and the US can do about it that doesn't involve military action.
 
2014-03-03 12:37:00 PM

clancifer: NeoAnderthal: This reminds me of Bill Clinton constantly wagging his impotent finger at Saddam Hussein. we all saw what that got us. This is exactly why liberals have the deserved reputation for being pussies on the world stage.
It got us not having a trillion+ spent on an unnecessary war? It got us not having 4k dead soldiers and tens of thousands wounded?


If thousands of Soldiers aren't being sent around the world to dig holes and refill them, while we increase the national debt to give Halliburton blank checks, it just isn't a proper military action.

Dumbass liberals want to use boring concepts like technology and diplomacy to resolve conflicts. We're just "pussies" that way.
 
2014-03-03 12:37:58 PM
Alternate Universe Headline:

Obama hasn't said sh*t to Russia, Even if he doesn't plan on doing anything at least state there will be consequences.
 
2014-03-03 12:38:08 PM
obama could draw a red line in the sand, and then when pressed he could say that the red line was drawn a long time ago by nato.

and then do nothing.
 
2014-03-03 12:38:41 PM
Nothing brings out the freeper retard brigade like a rainy monday morning.
 
2014-03-03 12:40:37 PM

pup.socket: Actually, there is a lot Obama and the US can do about it that doesn't involve military action.



IMPLIED WISDOM   specifics

 
2014-03-03 12:41:21 PM

pup.socket: Actually, there is a lot Obama and the US can do about it that doesn't involve military action.



Thank you for the biggest laugh I've had all day.
 
2014-03-03 12:42:34 PM

Superjew: Nothing brings out the freeper retard brigade like a rainy monday morning.


Awwww, is your precious President just not doing it for you.   Awwww.  Poor baby.
 
2014-03-03 12:42:46 PM

colon_pow: obama could draw a red line in the sand, and then when pressed he could say that the red line was drawn a long time ago by nato.

and then do nothing.


Syria still has their chemical weapons?
 
2014-03-03 12:44:38 PM
There goes that Obama again, simultaneously being completely ineffective and spineless when it comes to foreign affairs while at the same time being responsible for every world event and having a hand in all of the world's problems!
 
2014-03-03 12:44:46 PM

dinch: colon_pow: obama could draw a red line in the sand, and then when pressed he could say that the red line was drawn a long time ago by nato.

and then do nothing.

Syria still has their chemical weapons?


yes.
 
2014-03-03 12:46:07 PM

mistrmind: pup.socket: Actually, there is a lot Obama and the US can do about it that doesn't involve military action.


Thank you for the biggest laugh I've had all day.


You believe the only options are "Invade now" or "do nothing"?
 
2014-03-03 12:47:13 PM
Back to the actual point at hand, I think TFA is being a little too glib about what kind of consequences the West can impose. The economic damage to Russia can be substantial if the West decides to impose actual trade restrictions or sanctions. Look at the Russian stock market today - they are already being hurt quite badly.
 
2014-03-03 12:48:28 PM

qorkfiend: mistrmind: pup.socket: Actually, there is a lot Obama and the US can do about it that doesn't involve military action.


Thank you for the biggest laugh I've had all day.

You believe the only options are "Invade now" or "do nothing"?


I believe we have many options to weigh.   However, we're talking Obama here, who is pretty much ineffective and bogged down as a President.   He's more concerned on how he looks than on what the correct course of action should be.
 
2014-03-03 12:48:55 PM
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2014/03/03-2

Great article, though with a few dubious assumptions.  Certainly a different perspective.

Obama's unorthodox foreign policy - essentially working in tandem with the Russian president and sometimes at odds with his own foreign policy bureaucracy - has forced Obama into faux outrage when he's faced with some perceived affront from Russia, such as its agreement to give temporary asylum to National Security Agency whistleblower Edward Snowden.

For the record, Obama had to express strong disapproval of Snowden's asylum, though in many ways Putin was doing Obama a favor by sparing Obama from having to prosecute Snowden with the attendant complications for U.S. national security and the damaging political repercussions from Obama's liberal base.

Putin's unforced errors also complicated the relationship, such as when he defended Russian hostility toward gays and cracked down on dissent before the Sochi Olympics. Putin became an easy target for U.S. commentators and comedians.

But Obama's hesitancy to explain the degree of his strategic cooperation with Putin has enabled Official Washington's still influential neocons, including holdovers within the State Department bureaucracy, to drive more substantive wedges between Obama and Putin. The neocons came to recognize that the Obama-Putin tandem had become a major impediment to their strategic vision.

Without doubt, the neocons' most dramatic - and potentially most dangerous - counter-move has been Ukraine, where they have lent their political and financial support to opposition forces who sought to break Ukraine away from its Russian neighbor.

Though this crisis also stems from the historical division of Ukraine - between its more European-oriented west and the Russian-ethnic east and south - neocon operatives, with financing from the U.S.-funded National Endowment for Democracy and other U.S. sources, played key roles in destabilizing and overthrowing the democratically elected president.
 
2014-03-03 12:49:27 PM

pup.socket: Actually, there is a lot Obama and the US can do about it that doesn't involve military action.


I'm astonished at the American media, to be honest.  They're so blinkered, at this point, they really don't know what they're talking about.  Military response seems to be the only thing possible, and it has to happen yesterday.
 
2014-03-03 12:50:22 PM
I knew Obama wanted to shrink the military but I cannot support this shriking of the military by shoving it into a meatgrinder.
 
2014-03-03 12:50:29 PM
"Economic damage" destroyed the USSR, after a looooong coooold war. But TROOPZ NAO!!! WAVE A FLAG!!! MORE BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!!!
 
2014-03-03 12:51:01 PM
Why should the United States be obligated to intervene? If anything, the US should formerly exit NATO, what is the point of being a member anyway?

Why should I care if Russia invades Crimea?
 
2014-03-03 12:51:13 PM
Monday Morning Obamaphobia Butthurt Brigade in full force.
 
2014-03-03 12:51:25 PM

pup.socket: Actually, there is a lot Obama and the US can do about it that doesn't involve military action.


Yeah but that doesn't let chickenhawks feel better about having small dicks.
 
2014-03-03 12:52:18 PM

DamnYankees: Back to the actual point at hand, I think TFA is being a little too glib about what kind of consequences the West can impose. The economic damage to Russia can be substantial if the West decides to impose actual trade restrictions or sanctions. Look at the Russian stock market today - they are already being hurt quite badly.


Russia MICEX index sees its market capitalisation down $58.4 bln in one day - more than the $51 bln or so Moscow spent on Sochi Olympics-Lidia Kelly (@LidKelly)

Hey Putin! No one will call Sochi your biggest boondoggle of the year; aren't you proud?
 
2014-03-03 12:52:19 PM

mistrmind: He's more concerned on how he looks than on what the correct course of action should be.


Ah.  Political insight from the Limbaugh "read their minds" school of policy critique.

www.troll.me
 
2014-03-03 12:53:18 PM

mistrmind: qorkfiend: mistrmind: pup.socket: Actually, there is a lot Obama and the US can do about it that doesn't involve military action.


Thank you for the biggest laugh I've had all day.

You believe the only options are "Invade now" or "do nothing"?

I believe we have many options to weigh.   However, we're talking Obama here, who is pretty much ineffective and bogged down as a President.   He's more concerned on how he looks than on what the correct course of action should be.




And you would do what exactly?
 
2014-03-03 12:53:38 PM

mistrmind: Superjew: Nothing brings out the freeper retard brigade like a rainy monday morning.

Awwww, is your precious President just not doing it for you.   Awwww.  Poor baby.


Thank you for reminding me - I forgot to highlight all your posts in Troll Gray. It's fixed now, though.
 
2014-03-03 12:54:03 PM
Do you really believe that Vichimitter?

Not to ruin your little Harlequin Romance Daydreams but umhh.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditu re s

I'll start pissing my pants when they can afford to field even a 1/5 of our forces. If there is one thing the U.S. still does better than anyone its killing people.
 
2014-03-03 12:54:09 PM

NeoAnderthal: This reminds me of Bill Clinton constantly wagging his impotent finger at Saddam Hussein. we all saw what that got us. This is exactly why liberals have the deserved reputation for being pussies on the world stage.


I really wish these pussy liberals would toughen up and start a war like real republican men.
 
2014-03-03 12:54:19 PM

manbart: Why should the United States be obligated to intervene? If anything, the US should formerly exit NATO, what is the point of being a member anyway?

Why should I care if Russia invades Crimea?


Ukraine isn't a member of NATO and never has been.
 
2014-03-03 12:54:43 PM
There's always Global Thermonuclear War.

*shutter*
 
2014-03-03 12:55:32 PM

manbart: Why should the United States be obligated to intervene? If anything, the US should formerly exit NATO, what is the point of being a member anyway?

Why should I care if Russia invades Crimea?


Because Ukraine gave up their nukes for protection by the U.S. (and others), if the U.S. doesn't honor the treaty, the U.S. looks weak and not trustworthy. Plus, then all the treaties of Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons go right out the window and every country will then want to protect themselves directly with Nukes instead of the international communities coming in.
 
2014-03-03 12:55:38 PM

MayoSlather: NeoAnderthal: This reminds me of Bill Clinton constantly wagging his impotent finger at Saddam Hussein. we all saw what that got us. This is exactly why liberals have the deserved reputation for being pussies on the world stage.

I really wish these pussy liberals would toughen up and start a war like real republican men.


But not that war. And by "that war" I mean whatever war it is liberals start, even if I said it was the right war, because then it's the wrong war because it was too early, or too late, or something.
 
2014-03-03 12:56:00 PM

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: pup.socket: Actually, there is a lot Obama and the US can do about it that doesn't involve military action.

I'm astonished at the American media, to be honest.  They're so blinkered, at this point, they really don't know what they're talking about.  Military response seems to be the only thing possible, and it has to happen yesterday.


That has become literally the only part of foreign policy that is discussed in the US. Global influence is being boiled down to who we can bomb/invade or threaten to bomb/invade.
 
2014-03-03 12:59:12 PM

NeoAnderthal: This reminds me of Bill Clinton constantly wagging his impotent finger at Saddam Hussein. we all saw what that got us. This is exactly why liberals have the deserved reputation for being pussies on the world stage.

Calls us pussies while wetting himself over Putin's unstopable power..... His manly and disturbingly sexual power.

Its a rerun from last night but fark it.

www.quickmeme.com
 
2014-03-03 01:00:36 PM

danknerd: manbart: Why should the United States be obligated to intervene? If anything, the US should formerly exit NATO, what is the point of being a member anyway?

Why should I care if Russia invades Crimea?

Because Ukraine gave up their nukes for protection by the U.S. (and others), if the U.S. doesn't honor the treaty, the U.S. looks weak and not trustworthy. Plus, then all the treaties of Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons go right out the window and every country will then want to protect themselves directly with Nukes instead of the international communities coming in.


interesting thanks for the info
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_Ukraine
 
2014-03-03 01:00:38 PM

RexTalionis: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: (1) gas immediately being shut off to Western Europe

Now that the US is one of the largest producers of fossil fuels and one of the largest gas producers, we're no longer buying up as much of the natural gas on the international markets, which leaves more free for European countries. Yes, it'll hurt, but they're not absolutely dependent on Gazprom.


The largest natural gas producer iirc, and it is an area we can grow in if we need to. Like, say, some stupid country on the other side of the world wants to cut their income by refusing to sell fossil fuels.  

Environmental damage notwithstanding, it would be an incredible boon for our country to boost supply at the same time Russia pulls back and boosts the price of natural gas in the process.
 
2014-03-03 01:00:42 PM

colon_pow: dinch: colon_pow: obama could draw a red line in the sand, and then when pressed he could say that the red line was drawn a long time ago by nato.

and then do nothing.

Syria still has their chemical weapons?

yes.


And you think he's free to continue using them however he likes?

I see...
 
2014-03-03 01:00:45 PM

Skleenar: mistrmind: He's more concerned on how he looks than on what the correct course of action should be.

Ah.  Political insight from the Limbaugh "read their minds" school of policy critique.

[www.troll.me image 303x232]


Ah, please.  Fill the room with your wisdom and intelligence.
 
2014-03-03 01:01:25 PM
It's sick how the right seems to want a huge war just so they can make Obama look bad.
It's like the want Putin to nuke Kiev just so they can say thanks Obama.
 
2014-03-03 01:02:07 PM

danknerd: Because Ukraine gave up their nukes for protection by the U.S. (and others), if the U.S. doesn't honor the treaty, the U.S.


It's not a treaty.

www.palmtalk.org


According to the memorandum, Russia, the US, and the UK confirmed, in recognition of Ukraine becoming party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons and in effect abandoning its nuclear arsenal to Russia, that they would:

Respect Ukrainian independence and sovereignty within its existing borders. Refrain from the threat or use of force against Ukraine.
Refrain from using economic pressure on Ukraine in order to influence its politics.
Seek United Nations Security Council action if nuclear weapons are used against Ukraine.
Refrain from the use of nuclear arms against Ukraine.
Consult with one another if questions arise regarding these commitments.[6]
 
2014-03-03 01:02:20 PM

BSABSVR: Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: pup.socket: Actually, there is a lot Obama and the US can do about it that doesn't involve military action.

I'm astonished at the American media, to be honest.  They're so blinkered, at this point, they really don't know what they're talking about.  Military response seems to be the only thing possible, and it has to happen yesterday.

That has become literally the only part of foreign policy that is discussed in the US. Global influence is being boiled down to who we can bomb/invade or threaten to bomb/invade.


It's almost as if the biggest media purveyors in the world were owned by only a few giant corporations or rich dudes, and the result is a rather one-sided, simplistic, but very exciting and scary point of view.
 
2014-03-03 01:03:05 PM
Right wingers demand that Obama takes an action immediately so they know sooner what opposite stance to take.
 
2014-03-03 01:03:47 PM

danknerd: Because Ukraine gave up their nukes for protection by the U.S. (and others), if the U.S. doesn't honor the treaty, the U.S. looks weak and not trustworthy. Plus, then all the treaties of Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons go right out the window and every country will then want to protect themselves directly with Nukes instead of the international communities coming in.


Honoring agreements  is important, so we may yet get sucked into this if shiat really hits the fan. However, this is why it is time to formerly end our commitments to NATO. These agreements made sense during the Cold War, but times have changed. There is no appetite for an armed conflict with Russia, noise from the wing-nuts aside. I don't think Russia has any interest in starting shooting either. Major world players do not want to rock the boat of the world economy, industrialized nations fighting one another is bad for business for all parties involved.
 
2014-03-03 01:03:50 PM

mistrmind: Skleenar: mistrmind: He's more concerned on how he looks than on what the correct course of action should be.

Ah.  Political insight from the Limbaugh "read their minds" school of policy critique.

[www.troll.me image 303x232]

Ah, please.  Fill the room with your wisdom and intelligence.


I would, but you're more concerned with looking good to other Fark commenters to really make for a real conversation.

;-)
 
2014-03-03 01:04:04 PM

BSABSVR: mistrmind: qorkfiend: mistrmind: pup.socket: Actually, there is a lot Obama and the US can do about it that doesn't involve military action.


Thank you for the biggest laugh I've had all day.

You believe the only options are "Invade now" or "do nothing"?

I believe we have many options to weigh.   However, we're talking Obama here, who is pretty much ineffective and bogged down as a President.   He's more concerned on how he looks than on what the correct course of action should be.

And you would do what exactly?


Nothing.  How does this affect the United States?
Is it worth sacrificing American troops?   Is it strategically important?   Really we should just focus on our country and our national interests.
 
2014-03-03 01:04:14 PM
I guess the reasonable thing to do would be to wait and see how the elections turn out then let diplomacy have a go at resolving this issue.

I hope the protesters play the cat and mouse game with Putin (raise hell then retreat until forces clear then raise hell), hit him in the pocket book. no sense in throwing rocks at armed soldiers.

I believe President Obama should press for economic sanctions, for only one reason, we need to let Putin know that his totalitarian insistence that sovereign European countries participate in keeping Russia afloat will not stand.
 
2014-03-03 01:04:48 PM

johnnyrocket: There's always Global Thermonuclear War.

*shutter*


It would be nice if this could be settled over a nice game of chess.

I'm sure Kasparov could be convinced to play Putin for Ukraine somehow. If a Russian has to rule Crimea, it might as well be Garry Kimovich.
 
2014-03-03 01:05:28 PM

danknerd: manbart: Why should the United States be obligated to intervene? If anything, the US should formerly exit NATO, what is the point of being a member anyway?

Why should I care if Russia invades Crimea?

Because Ukraine gave up their nukes for protection by the U.S. (and others), if the U.S. doesn't honor the treaty, the U.S. looks weak and not trustworthy. Plus, then all the treaties of Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons go right out the window and every country will then want to protect themselves directly with Nukes instead of the international communities coming in.


These are the conditions of the deal.

The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the
The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their obligation to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine, and that none of their weapons will ever be used against Ukraine except in self-defense or otherwise in accordance with the
The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the CSCE Final Act, to refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by Ukraine of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind.

The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to seek immediate United Nations Security Council action to provide assistance to Ukraine, as a non-nuclear-weapon State Party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, if Ukraine should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used.

The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm, in the case of the Ukraine, their commitment not to use nuclear weapons against any non-nuclear-weapon State Party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, except in the case of an attack on themselves, their territories or dependent territories, their armed forces, or their allies, by such a state in association or alliance with a nuclear weapon state.

The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland will consult in the event a situation arises which raises a question concerning these commitments.

The agreement was for the U.S GB and Russia to take security council actions to protect them if they were ever attacked. Security council actions could be anything from armed force to sanctions to a strongly worded letter showing disapproval. Oh yeah, guess who has a vote on the security council actions?
 
2014-03-03 01:05:32 PM

mistrmind: BSABSVR: mistrmind: qorkfiend: mistrmind: pup.socket: Actually, there is a lot Obama and the US can do about it that doesn't involve military action.


Thank you for the biggest laugh I've had all day.

You believe the only options are "Invade now" or "do nothing"?

I believe we have many options to weigh.   However, we're talking Obama here, who is pretty much ineffective and bogged down as a President.   He's more concerned on how he looks than on what the correct course of action should be.

And you would do what exactly?

Nothing.  How does this affect the United States?
Is it worth sacrificing American troops?   Is it strategically important?   Really we should just focus on our country and our national interests.


Do you think fewer nuclear weapons in the world is a national interest?
 
2014-03-03 01:05:35 PM

Skleenar: mistrmind: Skleenar: mistrmind: He's more concerned on how he looks than on what the correct course of action should be.

Ah.  Political insight from the Limbaugh "read their minds" school of policy critique.

[www.troll.me image 303x232]

Ah, please.  Fill the room with your wisdom and intelligence.

I would, but you're more concerned with looking good to other Fark commenters to really make for a real conversation.

;-)


So you have nothing intelligent to add.   Okay troll.
 
2014-03-03 01:07:25 PM

DamnYankees: Back to the actual point at hand, I think TFA is being a little too glib about what kind of consequences the West can impose. The economic damage to Russia can be substantial if the West decides to impose actual trade restrictions or sanctions. Look at the Russian stock market today - they are already being hurt quite badly.


Yeah but trade restrictions and diplomatic pressure don't make for good movies, so they're pointless. What we really need here is a Reverse Red Dawn (the old one, not the crappy new one), except we win.
 
2014-03-03 01:07:40 PM

vygramul: mistrmind: BSABSVR: mistrmind: qorkfiend: mistrmind: pup.socket: Actually, there is a lot Obama and the US can do about it that doesn't involve military action.


Thank you for the biggest laugh I've had all day.

You believe the only options are "Invade now" or "do nothing"?

I believe we have many options to weigh.   However, we're talking Obama here, who is pretty much ineffective and bogged down as a President.   He's more concerned on how he looks than on what the correct course of action should be.

And you would do what exactly?

Nothing.  How does this affect the United States?
Is it worth sacrificing American troops?   Is it strategically important?   Really we should just focus on our country and our national interests.

Do you think fewer nuclear weapons in the world is a national interest?


I think focus on boosting our economy and becoming more fiscally responsible is in our interest.  If the Ukraine wishes to be independent of Russia, they'll need to work for it.
 
2014-03-03 01:07:43 PM

mistrmind: Is it strategically important?


(Snicker.)
 
2014-03-03 01:07:45 PM

Skleenar: danknerd: Because Ukraine gave up their nukes for protection by the U.S. (and others), if the U.S. doesn't honor the treaty, the U.S.

It's not a treaty.

[www.palmtalk.org image 602x375]


According to the memorandum, Russia, the US, and the UK confirmed, in recognition of Ukraine becoming party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons and in effect abandoning its nuclear arsenal to Russia, that they would:

Respect Ukrainian independence and sovereignty within its existing borders. Refrain from the threat or use of force against Ukraine.
Refrain from using economic pressure on Ukraine in order to influence its politics.
Seek United Nations Security Council action if nuclear weapons are used against Ukraine.
Refrain from the use of nuclear arms against Ukraine.
Consult with one another if questions arise regarding these commitments.[6]


http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Ukraine._Memorandum_on_Security_Assura nc es
 
2014-03-03 01:08:30 PM

Ring of Fire: It's sick how the right seems to want a huge war just so they can make Obama look bad.
It's like the want Putin to nuke Kiev just so they can say thanks Obama.


                  images3.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2014-03-03 01:09:44 PM

NeverDrunk23: Right wingers demand that Obama takes an action immediately so they know sooner what opposite stance to take.


Pretty much this. Also, the US has no business in the Ukraine, much less Crimea. I literally do not care of Russia takes over the area. It's not part of NATO, and the US has no interests to protect. This is Europe's turf; if they want to get involved, we should back them, but there's no reason to be taking lead here.

Sucks to be Ukrainian.
 
2014-03-03 01:10:33 PM

mistrmind: So you have nothing intelligent to add. Okay troll.


No, U.
 
2014-03-03 01:11:22 PM
Remember when Bush murdered Saddam with the blunt force of his macho American donkey phallus?  Pepperidge Farm remembers.  Stupid Obama will just appease Putin.  Palin would drowned him with her milky teats.
 
2014-03-03 01:13:20 PM

mistrmind: I think focus on boosting our economy and becoming more fiscally responsible is in our interest.  If the Ukraine wishes to be independent of Russia, they'll need to work for it.


They did work for it and got it in the '90s. And then they also did us a solid by giving up their nukes like we asked them. We really kind of owe them some consideration.
 
2014-03-03 01:13:32 PM
Oh, so now he wants to pretend like he doesn't have a time machine.
 
2014-03-03 01:13:36 PM

Skleenar: danknerd: Because Ukraine gave up their nukes for protection by the U.S. (and others), if the U.S. doesn't honor the treaty, the U.S.

It's not a treaty.

[www.palmtalk.org image 602x375]


According to the memorandum, Russia, the US, and the UK confirmed, in recognition of Ukraine becoming party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons and in effect abandoning its nuclear arsenal to Russia, that they would:

Respect Ukrainian independence and sovereignty within its existing borders. Refrain from the threat or use of force against Ukraine.
Refrain from using economic pressure on Ukraine in order to influence its politics.
Seek United Nations Security Council action if nuclear weapons are used against Ukraine.
Refrain from the use of nuclear arms against Ukraine.
Consult with one another if questions arise regarding these commitments.[6]


My bad, the NPT is serious and it is what stopped all most all nations from developing their own nuclear arsenals... so if a nation like Ukraine gives up their nukes and then is invaded by a nation with nuclear capabilities... which it could have used as a threat to stop Russia and no other nation comes to their defense... why would any other nation not then want their own nukes, it is not a path the world should want to go down.
 
2014-03-03 01:14:03 PM
Aw shiat, mistrmind is here, y'all!  Don't you dare call him any mean names or he will get mad about your ad hominem attacks, insult your intelligence, and call you a troll.
 
2014-03-03 01:15:02 PM

NeverDrunk23: Right wingers demand that Obama takes an action immediately so they know sooner what opposite stance to take.


Its going to super hilarious watching the meathead derps vote to defund the military to spite 0bamalamadingadingdangmylangalonglinlong.
 
2014-03-03 01:15:18 PM

Tomahawk513: NeverDrunk23: Right wingers demand that Obama takes an action immediately so they know sooner what opposite stance to take.

Pretty much this. Also, the US has no business in the Ukraine, much less Crimea. I literally do not care of Russia takes over the area. It's not part of NATO, and the US has no interests to protect. This is Europe's turf; if they want to get involved, we should back them, but there's no reason to be taking lead here.

Sucks to be Ukrainian.


A little chunk of this country with a high Russ population here a little there then next the tanks are rolling down mainstreet Warswa.... 39 all over again.
 
2014-03-03 01:15:47 PM

QU!RK1019: Remember when Bush murdered Saddam with the blunt force of his macho American donkey phallus?  Pepperidge Farm remembers.  Stupid Obama will just appease Putin.  Palin would drowned him with her milky teats.


it would be like that scene in Conan the Barbarian (the old one, not the crappy new one) when Conan (Putin) gets seduced by the witch (Palin) who eventually turns into a ball of blue flame & exits the scene when she realizes that Conan has bested her both physically and sexually.

what i'm saying is that Palin is a worthless lash batter.
 
2014-03-03 01:18:21 PM

Isitoveryet: it would be like that scene in Conan the Barbarian (the old one, not the crappy new one) when Conan (Putin) gets seduced by the witch (Palin) who eventually turns into a ball of blue flame & exits the scene when she realizes that Conan has bested her both physically and sexually.

what i'm saying is that Palin is a worthless lash batter.


No lash batter can withstand the Putin baby batter.
 
2014-03-03 01:18:31 PM

QU!RK1019: Aw shiat, mistrmind is here, y'all!  Don't you dare call him any mean names or he will get mad about your ad hominem attacks, insult your intelligence, and call you a troll.


I don't know.  It scared me back under my bridge.  Will you all quit tramping up there? I'm trying to get a shame-wank on.  It's distracting.
 
2014-03-03 01:21:12 PM
1. Economic sanctions
2. Cyber war
It may not stop them but if the cost is high enough the Russians may think twice about invading someone else.
 
2014-03-03 01:21:47 PM

QU!RK1019: Isitoveryet:

No lash batter can withstand the Putin baby batter.


snot shot out the nose, i've been sick.
 
2014-03-03 01:23:03 PM

mistrmind: qorkfiend: mistrmind: pup.socket: Actually, there is a lot Obama and the US can do about it that doesn't involve military action.


Thank you for the biggest laugh I've had all day.

You believe the only options are "Invade now" or "do nothing"?

I believe we have many options to weigh.   However, we're talking Obama here, who is pretty much ineffective and bogged down as a President.   He's more concerned on how he looks than on what the correct course of action should be.


And what would that be?

Sanctions? Trade deal breaking? Ooooo that'll teach them!
 
2014-03-03 01:23:27 PM

vygramul: mistrmind: I think focus on boosting our economy and becoming more fiscally responsible is in our interest.  If the Ukraine wishes to be independent of Russia, they'll need to work for it.

They did work for it and got it in the '90s. And then they also did us a solid by giving up their nukes like we asked them. We really kind of owe them some consideration.


Okay.  Perhaps funding and gun running to the national over there under CIA supervision.   Otherwise they need to row their own boat here.
 
2014-03-03 01:24:28 PM

Saiga410: Tomahawk513: NeverDrunk23: Right wingers demand that Obama takes an action immediately so they know sooner what opposite stance to take.

Pretty much this. Also, the US has no business in the Ukraine, much less Crimea. I literally do not care of Russia takes over the area. It's not part of NATO, and the US has no interests to protect. This is Europe's turf; if they want to get involved, we should back them, but there's no reason to be taking lead here.

Sucks to be Ukrainian.

A little chunk of this country with a high Russ population here a little there then next the tanks are rolling down mainstreet Warswa.... 39 all over again.


...Which is in Europe, making it (still) Europe's problem.  Who's the primary beneficiary in a Western-learning Ukraine?  Europe.
 
2014-03-03 01:25:40 PM

DamnYankees: Back to the actual point at hand, I think TFA is being a little too glib about what kind of consequences the West can impose. The economic damage to Russia can be substantial if the West decides to impose actual trade restrictions or sanctions. Look at the Russian stock market today - they are already being hurt quite badly.


The traders there are frantic because they essentially had no warning that Putin was going to do this, otherwise they would have unwound their positions weeks ago.
 
2014-03-03 01:26:15 PM

NeoAnderthal: This reminds me of Bill Clinton constantly wagging his impotent finger at Saddam Hussein. we all saw what that got us. This is exactly why liberals have the deserved reputation for being pussies on the world stage.


You guys just lie in wait for these threads, don't you?
 
2014-03-03 01:26:17 PM

Saiga410: A little chunk of this country with a high Russ population here a little there then next the tanks are rolling down mainstreet Warswa.... 39 all over again.


Good point. I propose that we drop Saiga410 off behind enemy lines to wage a single man Rambo-esque campaign against the commies.
 
2014-03-03 01:26:54 PM
My facebook has been lighting up with some more conservative friends shouting "ROMNEY WAS RIGHT" and linking that debate video where Obama laughs off Romney's idea that Russia is that greatest enemy ever of all time!!! This still hardly affects the US, especially in terms of actively threatening us, which makes this attempted reclaiming of a failed GOP candidate even more hilarious
 
2014-03-03 01:28:13 PM

PC LOAD LETTER: mistrmind: qorkfiend: mistrmind: pup.socket: Actually, there is a lot Obama and the US can do about it that doesn't involve military action.


Thank you for the biggest laugh I've had all day.

You believe the only options are "Invade now" or "do nothing"?

I believe we have many options to weigh.   However, we're talking Obama here, who is pretty much ineffective and bogged down as a President.   He's more concerned on how he looks than on what the correct course of action should be.

And what would that be?

Sanctions? Trade deal breaking? Ooooo that'll teach them!


I don't know.  You need to ask Gorkfiend that question.
 
2014-03-03 01:29:14 PM
Also, as someone whose salary is paid in rubles, I am not enjoying this.
 
2014-03-03 01:29:24 PM

NeoAnderthal: This reminds me of Bill Clinton constantly wagging his impotent finger at Saddam Hussein. we all saw what that got us. This is exactly why liberals have the deserved reputation for being pussies on the world stage.


Potatoed in the Boobies.
 
2014-03-03 01:30:01 PM
 
2014-03-03 01:30:45 PM

jchuffyman: Also, as someone whose salary is paid in rubles, I am not enjoying this.


they should pay you in gum! or vodka or gum flavored vodka.
 
2014-03-03 01:31:27 PM

Zeb Hesselgresser: Ring of Fire: It's sick how the right seems to want a huge war just so they can make Obama look bad.
It's like the want Putin to nuke Kiev just so they can say thanks Obama.

                  [images3.wikia.nocookie.net image 200x267]


Oh really please explain. In detail...
 
2014-03-03 01:32:42 PM

Isitoveryet: jchuffyman: Also, as someone whose salary is paid in rubles, I am not enjoying this.

they should pay you in gum! or vodka or gum flavored vodka.


Sadly, the price of vodka is going up as well, as the government passed new alcohol taxes. (~6 bucks for half a liter! The horror!)
 
2014-03-03 01:33:15 PM

mistrmind: PC LOAD LETTER: mistrmind: qorkfiend: mistrmind: pup.socket: Actually, there is a lot Obama and the US can do about it that doesn't involve military action.


Thank you for the biggest laugh I've had all day.

You believe the only options are "Invade now" or "do nothing"?

I believe we have many options to weigh.   However, we're talking Obama here, who is pretty much ineffective and bogged down as a President.   He's more concerned on how he looks than on what the correct course of action should be.

And what would that be?

Sanctions? Trade deal breaking? Ooooo that'll teach them!

I don't know.  You need to ask Gorkfiend that question.


Who?
 
2014-03-03 01:33:49 PM

jchuffyman: My facebook has been lighting up with some more conservative friends shouting "ROMNEY WAS RIGHT" and linking that debate video where Obama laughs off Romney's idea that Russia is that greatest enemy ever of all time!!! This still hardly affects the US, especially in terms of actively threatening us, which makes this attempted reclaiming of a failed GOP candidate even more hilarious


If Romney was President now, today, nuclear war would have started 20 minutes ago.
 
2014-03-03 01:33:58 PM

manbart: Saiga410: A little chunk of this country with a high Russ population here a little there then next the tanks are rolling down mainstreet Warswa.... 39 all over again.

Good point. I propose that we drop Saiga410 off behind enemy lines to wage a single man Rambo-esque campaign against the commies.


Na but I do plan on leading a rag tag bunch of miscreants to hold up a bank on the wrong side of the lines.  All I need is a beatnick tank driver.
 
2014-03-03 01:34:18 PM
Crimea is just Russia's "West bank".

All is well nothing to see here,move along.
 
2014-03-03 01:37:08 PM
Things the US/west can do:
Kick Russia out of G8
Restrict Russian access to financial markets
Deny visas to Russians

The last two will matter a lot to Russia's ruling class.
 
2014-03-03 01:37:15 PM

danknerd: jchuffyman: My facebook has been lighting up with some more conservative friends shouting "ROMNEY WAS RIGHT" and linking that debate video where Obama laughs off Romney's idea that Russia is that greatest enemy ever of all time!!! This still hardly affects the US, especially in terms of actively threatening us, which makes this attempted reclaiming of a failed GOP candidate even more hilarious

If Romney was President now, today, nuclear war would have started 20 minutes ago.


Yeah, I guess this is an Obama is weak day on the talking points calendar
 
2014-03-03 01:37:27 PM

Ring of Fire: It's sick how the right seems to want a huge war just so they can make Obama look bad.
It's like the want Putin to nuke Kiev just so they can say thanks Obama.


That's the "I miss W" wing of the American right. The real fever swamps, along with the European right, want the Russians to smash their way into Kiev and keep going till Berlin just to spite the globalists. Apparently if a government hates commies and Muslims as much as you do, and their (state-controlled) media tells you what you want to hear about how George Soros rules the world, they can do no wrong.

Chances are, Putin's army won't march all the way to Kiev---he didn't try to reclaim Georgia either. But he could, meeting about as much resistance as the Americans got from the Iraqi regulars in 2003. That he clearly hasn't yet ruled that out should terrify anybody who means Europe well and isn't interested in winning a pissing match.

Actually, even were I a sociopathic and perfectly unrepentant ex-KGB advisor to Putin, I might try talking Vladimir Vladimirovich out of it (if I hadn't already). This could easily be his Afghanistan. The leaders of West Ukraine have the backing of the west and could well get covert support for a long time after Yanukovich or another Putin loyalist is restored. Ukraine could take many years to completely re-conquer, if it's even possible at all.
 
2014-03-03 01:38:15 PM

Satanic_Hamster: Things the US/west can do:
Kick Russia out of G8
Restrict Russian access to financial markets
Deny visas to Russians

The last two will matter a lot to Russia's ruling class.


Yeah but that doesn't really pump your nads, does it?  We want tanks and cruise missiles and big booms!
 
2014-03-03 01:39:26 PM
Believe me. Sooner or later, one way or another, this will end up biting Putin in the ass. Obama never forgets, and Obama keeps score, and payback always happens eventually.
 
2014-03-03 01:40:01 PM

danknerd: jchuffyman: My facebook has been lighting up with some more conservative friends shouting "ROMNEY WAS RIGHT" and linking that debate video where Obama laughs off Romney's idea that Russia is that greatest enemy ever of all time!!! This still hardly affects the US, especially in terms of actively threatening us, which makes this attempted reclaiming of a failed GOP candidate even more hilarious

If Romney was President now, today, nuclear war would have started 20 minutes ago.


Nah.  As much as I love to dig on Rmoney, he'd be doing the exact same thing as Obama here.  He's a businessman.  He'd understand both how costly war would be, and how much the international community can damage Russia's economy using passive measures, like sanctions.  And honestly, I think this is the right course of action.  I don't think it's going to make a bit of difference to Putin, but what can ya do?
 
2014-03-03 01:40:45 PM

jwa007: Eddie Adams from Torrance: We still have nukes, don't we?

So do the Russians.


Any of them without rust all over them?
 
2014-03-03 01:41:31 PM
manbart:  Why should I care if Russia invades Crimea?

You should care about the geo-political boundaries of countries and their sovereignty. This is why the UN was founded. You should care about trade and future trade, and the global economy. You should care about our allies ( and future allies ); like Poland, Turkey, Romania, Bulgaria, Greece and Georgia (Future Allies like Ukraine/ Belorussia/ Moldova and Dagestan). And you should care about old grannies and babies, who will get hurt/die when good men do nothing to stand in the way of evil. We are repeating the past, as we have not had the for-sight to avoid the same old issues. Say No to belligerence and bullying. This is armed robbery writ large, with people's lives at stake.
 
2014-03-03 01:41:40 PM

TV's Vinnie: Believe me. Sooner or later, one way or another, this will end up biting Putin in the ass. Obama never forgets, and Obama keeps score, and payback always happens eventually.


We do not forgive.
We do not forget.
Expect us.
Obamanonymous.
 
2014-03-03 01:41:57 PM

qorkfiend: mistrmind: PC LOAD LETTER: mistrmind: qorkfiend: mistrmind: pup.socket: Actually, there is a lot Obama and the US can do about it that doesn't involve military action.


Thank you for the biggest laugh I've had all day.

You believe the only options are "Invade now" or "do nothing"?

I believe we have many options to weigh.   However, we're talking Obama here, who is pretty much ineffective and bogged down as a President.   He's more concerned on how he looks than on what the correct course of action should be.

And what would that be?

Sanctions? Trade deal breaking? Ooooo that'll teach them!

I don't know.  You need to ask Gorkfiend that question.

Who?


Nobody important obviously.
 
2014-03-03 01:42:01 PM
Obama has all but made the US irrelevant on the world stage in only five years.  He commands such little respect internationally theses days.  The silver lining is we don't need to be involved, that is, other than our NATO obligations...
 
2014-03-03 01:42:56 PM

Swampmaster: manbart:  Why should I care if Russia invades Crimea?

You should care about the geo-political boundaries of countries and their sovereignty. This is why the UN was founded. You should care about trade and future trade, and the global economy. You should care about our allies ( and future allies ); like Poland, Turkey, Romania, Bulgaria, Greece and Georgia (Future Allies like Ukraine/ Belorussia/ Moldova and Dagestan). And you should care about old grannies and babies, who will get hurt/die when good men do nothing to stand in the way of evil. We are repeating the past, as we have not had the for-sight to avoid the same old issues. Say No to belligerence and bullying. This is armed robbery writ large, with people's lives at stake.


So I take it you bought yourself a gun and a ticket to the Ukraine? Oh, you mean you want somebody else to go fight for your noble ideals. Got it.
 
2014-03-03 01:43:25 PM

Swampmaster: manbart:  Why should I care if Russia invades Crimea?

You should care about the geo-political boundaries of countries and their sovereignty. This is why the UN was founded. You should care about trade and future trade, and the global economy. You should care about our allies ( and future allies ); like Poland, Turkey, Romania, Bulgaria, Greece and Georgia (Future Allies like Ukraine/ Belorussia/ Moldova and Dagestan). And you should care about old grannies and babies, who will get hurt/die when good men do nothing to stand in the way of evil. We are repeating the past, as we have not had the for-sight to avoid the same old issues. Say No to belligerence and bullying. This is armed robbery writ large, with people's lives at stake.


D.A.R.E.
Dictator Abuse Resistance Education
 
2014-03-03 01:43:56 PM

Tyee: Obama has all but made the US irrelevant on the world stage in only five years.  He commands such little respect internationally theses days.  The silver lining is we don't need to be involved, that is, other than our NATO obligations...


Yes, tell us about your extensive travels all over the world and how you gained an in-depth knowledge of how other countries view the US.

Or are you just saying that because feels?
 
2014-03-03 01:45:10 PM

Tyee: Obama has all but made the US irrelevant on the world stage in only five years.  He commands such little respect internationally theses days.  The silver lining is we don't need to be involved, that is, other than our NATO obligations...


There isn't any NATO obligations because Ukraine isn't a NATO member, And with that being said there is no need to address the rest of your post, because your whole NATO obligations line showed how much of an uniformed , imaginary world living idiot you are.
 
2014-03-03 01:45:30 PM

manbart: So I take it you bought yourself a gun and a ticket to the Ukraine? Oh, you mean you want somebody else to go fight for your noble ideals. Got it.


You're happy when innocent people die because you have no noble ideals.  Got it.
 
2014-03-03 01:45:35 PM

Tomahawk513: danknerd: jchuffyman: My facebook has been lighting up with some more conservative friends shouting "ROMNEY WAS RIGHT" and linking that debate video where Obama laughs off Romney's idea that Russia is that greatest enemy ever of all time!!! This still hardly affects the US, especially in terms of actively threatening us, which makes this attempted reclaiming of a failed GOP candidate even more hilarious

If Romney was President now, today, nuclear war would have started 20 minutes ago.

Nah.  As much as I love to dig on Rmoney, he'd be doing the exact same thing as Obama here.  He's a businessman.  He'd understand both how costly war would be, and how much the international community can damage Russia's economy using passive measures, like sanctions.  And honestly, I think this is the right course of action.  I don't think it's going to make a bit of difference to Putin, but what can ya do?


That's what makes it funnier to me. Obama is doing exactly what any person would do in this situation, but they act like their guy would have personally parachuted onto Red Square and put Putin into a chokehold (after shiatting on Lenin's corpse in the Mausoleum)
 
2014-03-03 01:46:39 PM

mistrmind: Superjew: Nothing brings out the freeper retard brigade like a rainy monday morning.

Awwww, is your precious President just not doing it for you.   Awwww.  Poor baby.


That's funny, all the crying in here seems to be on your side of the crib.

Pro tip: that shiny thing you are getting angry at is called a mirror.
 
2014-03-03 01:48:12 PM
I'm sorry, but what right does the USA have to piss on ANYBODY regarding illegally invading another country?

fark you and your hypocritical bullshiat.

Mind your own business and you'll notice your country is in the crapper.
 
2014-03-03 01:48:40 PM

grumpfuff: Yes, tell us about your extensive travels


Europe last year, S. America this year.  You basing your opinion on what the party tells you or are you just oblivious?
 
2014-03-03 01:49:01 PM

ongbok: Tyee: Obama has all but made the US irrelevant on the world stage in only five years.  He commands such little respect internationally theses days.  The silver lining is we don't need to be involved, that is, other than our NATO obligations...

There isn't any NATO obligations because Ukraine isn't a NATO member, And with that being said there is no need to address the rest of your post, because your whole NATO obligations line showed how much of an uniformed , imaginary world living idiot you are.


There are interesting NATO implications given Putin's actions. Putin has made it clear that he considers it his right to use military force to defend "Russiasn", as he sees them. That's what happened in Georgia, its whats happening in Ukraine. Neither of those countries are in NATO. But there are countries in NATO which have Russian minorities - Poland, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania most obviously. What happens if he starts to push there?
 
2014-03-03 01:49:42 PM
Ya know the consequences are Putin just pushing a button and really screwing us over. Thats why Obama needs to just shut his face hole. Ukraine is part of Russia the end. It does nothing for us or to us. Unless Obama cant shut his mouth. Bringing a butter knife to a gun fight.
 
2014-03-03 01:50:04 PM

QU!RK1019: You're happy when innocent people die because you have no noble ideals.  Got it.


It's really the only logical conclusion. I'm kinda like Hitler crossed with genghis khan.
 
2014-03-03 01:50:19 PM

Superjew: mistrmind: Superjew: Nothing brings out the freeper retard brigade like a rainy monday morning.

Awwww, is your precious President just not doing it for you.   Awwww.  Poor baby.

That's funny, all the crying in here seems to be on your side of the crib.

Pro tip: that shiny thing you are getting angry at is called a mirror.


No crying here Whinny McWhinester.
 
2014-03-03 01:51:33 PM

Tyee: grumpfuff: Yes, tell us about your extensive travels

Europe last year, S. America this year.  You basing your opinion on what the party tells you or are you just oblivious?


I'm basing my opinion on the friends I have in Europe, Asia, and the Middle East. Nice try though.
 
2014-03-03 01:55:44 PM

grumpfuff: Tyee: grumpfuff: Yes, tell us about your extensive travels

Europe last year, S. America this year.  You basing your opinion on what the party tells you or are you just oblivious?

I'm basing my opinion on the friends I have in Europe, Asia, and the Middle East. Nice try though.


So what you are saying you have no opinion.  You're just a parrot for your "friends".
 
2014-03-03 01:57:51 PM

DamnYankees: There are interesting NATO implications given Putin's actions. Putin has made it clear that he considers it his right to use military force to defend "Russiasn", as he sees them. That's what happened in Georgia, its whats happening in Ukraine. Neither of those countries are in NATO. But there are countries in NATO which have Russian minorities - Poland, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania most obviously. What happens if he starts to push there?


I am pretty sure that the Kremlin arithmetic changes for those countries. Nor do they seem as important to the Russians in an economic and defense sense as Ukraine.
 
2014-03-03 01:57:59 PM

ongbok: Tyee: Obama has all but made the US irrelevant on the world stage in only five years.  He commands such little respect internationally theses days.  The silver lining is we don't need to be involved, that is, other than our NATO obligations...

There isn't any NATO obligations because Ukraine isn't a NATO member, And with that being said there is no need to address the rest of your post, because your whole NATO obligations.....



http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2014/02/28/ukraine-appeals-us-uk- so vereignty

Your right it's the UK and USA obligations.  Now feel free to address the rendering of irrelevance Obama has bestowed on the USA.  Don't bother, please just continue to defend his ineptitude, it suits you better ignoring the obvious.
 
2014-03-03 01:58:52 PM

mistrmind: grumpfuff: Tyee: grumpfuff: Yes, tell us about your extensive travels

Europe last year, S. America this year.  You basing your opinion on what the party tells you or are you just oblivious?

I'm basing my opinion on the friends I have in Europe, Asia, and the Middle East. Nice try though.

So what you are saying you have no opinion.  You're just a parrot for your "friends".


Hmm. And how exactly is me parroting what my friends have said any different than him parroting what people he talked to told him?
 
2014-03-03 01:59:05 PM

Skleenar: DamnYankees: There are interesting NATO implications given Putin's actions. Putin has made it clear that he considers it his right to use military force to defend "Russiasn", as he sees them. That's what happened in Georgia, its whats happening in Ukraine. Neither of those countries are in NATO. But there are countries in NATO which have Russian minorities - Poland, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania most obviously. What happens if he starts to push there?

I am pretty sure that the Kremlin arithmetic changes for those countries. Nor do they seem as important to the Russians in an economic and defense sense as Ukraine.


Changes, sure. I mean, I would imagine Russia is less likely to attach Latvia than Ukraine. But that doesn't mean the chances move to 0.
 
2014-03-03 02:00:44 PM

grumpfuff: I'm basing my opinion on the friends I have in Europe, Asia, and the Middle East. Nice try though.


Wow, like minded people are like minded.
 
2014-03-03 02:03:51 PM

Tyee: http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2014/02/28/ukraine-appeals-us-uk- so vereignty

Your right it's the UK and USA obligations. Now feel free to address the rendering of irrelevance Obama has bestowed on the USA. Don't bother, please just continue to defend his ineptitude, it suits you better ignoring the obvious.


From your link:

"Legislators voted to demand guarantees of a 1994 memorandum that Ukraine signed with the Britain, Russia and the United States in Budapest safeguarding its borders and independence in return for giving up any nuclear arsenals left in the country after the collapse of the Soviet Union. "

I am not sure that a memorandum hold any real force in international law.  Additionally, since one of the signatories to the memorandum is the one violating the borders, this obviously complicates the matter.  But, of course, the UK and US should then revert to the recourse that was explicitly stated in the memorandum:

Respect Ukrainian independence and sovereignty within its existing borders.
Refrain from the threat or use of force against Ukraine.
Refrain from using economic pressure on Ukraine in order to influence its politics.
Seek United Nations Security Council action if nuclear weapons are used against Ukraine.
Refrain from the use of nuclear arms against Ukraine.
Consult with one another if questions arise regarding these commitments.


Well, seems like we're kind of doing that.
 
2014-03-03 02:04:05 PM

manbart: QU!RK1019: You're happy when innocent people die because you have no noble ideals.  Got it.

It's really the only logical conclusion. I'm kinda like Hitler crossed with genghis khan.


I was just playing the same "Jump To Conclusions!" game you were, man.
 
2014-03-03 02:04:25 PM

grumpfuff: Hmm. And how exactly is me parroting what my friends have said any different than him parroting what people he talked to told him?


So you're now saying that my opinion is at least as valuable as yours?  But you never went, you just talked, and devalued my seeing and hearing with my own eyes over your...what?

Never mind.
 
2014-03-03 02:05:09 PM

DamnYankees:  But there are countries in NATO which have Russian minorities - Poland, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania most obviously. What happens if he starts to push there?


He won't.  But, just for the sake of argument, let's say he does.

NATO ends up with a renewed justification for its existence.  Every general, military contracting company, and chickenhawk starts salivating at the opportunity to use those fancy new toys we've built.  Americans rally around the idea that we're fighting a new Hitler, as well as the idea that we don't have to engage in half-hearted "peacekeeping"; we can actually fight with the true strength of our military.  Raptors and Typhoons finally get scrambled for some real duty, and the Russian government learns that the post WW2 line in the sand is Poland (a country, I might add, that still has fresh memories of Nazi/Soviet occupation and would fight like rabid pitbulls to keep from repeating the same horror again).

At that point, Putin doesn't just lose.  He gets annihilated because encroachment upon full fledged NATO states is tantamount to suicide.

Which is why he won't.
 
2014-03-03 02:07:04 PM

NeoAnderthal: This reminds me of Bill Clinton constantly wagging his impotent finger at Saddam Hussein. we all saw what that got us. This is exactly why liberals have the deserved reputation for being pussies on the world stage.


Here is a list of dead terrorist leaders under Obama. Note that this list is two years old. http://politicalresearchdatabase.tumblr.com/post/34975879567

Under Bush we had the largest terrorist attack on Americans EVER. You have to be completely brainwashed and delusional to say that Obama has been weak against perceived enemies. He even continued the unjustified Bush wars so you righties should be overjoyed with his love of violence. Now Obama is trying to deal with this Russian/Ukraine mess in ways other than starting a world war and THAT makes him weak?!! You righties don't want to deal with facts. You biatch about endless debt. You don't want to give healthcare to the poor, extended benefits to the unemployed, housing to the homeless or food to Americas hungry but you want to wage war against every country on the globe at the slightest provocation. Republicans and Libertarians are the most evil, financially irresponsible, violent groups on earth. You hate the radical Muslims but the American Left is the only thing keeping you from being just as violently radical. In your views the answer to everything is murder.
 
2014-03-03 02:07:31 PM

grumpfuff: mistrmind: grumpfuff: Tyee: grumpfuff: Yes, tell us about your extensive travels

Europe last year, S. America this year.  You basing your opinion on what the party tells you or are you just oblivious?

I'm basing my opinion on the friends I have in Europe, Asia, and the Middle East. Nice try though.

So what you are saying you have no opinion.  You're just a parrot for your "friends".

Hmm. And how exactly is me parroting what my friends have said any different than him parroting what people he talked to told him?


Have you ever formed an opinion on your own?  Or do you just have it spoon fed?
 
2014-03-03 02:09:00 PM

mistrmind: Have you ever formed an opinion on your own?  Or do you just have it spoon fed?


Go whack off somewhere else.
 
2014-03-03 02:10:21 PM

Skleenar: Well, seems like we're kind of doing that.


2 of 6?
Regardless we don't have a dog in this fight.  Hardly anyone respects Obama's dog anyway.
 
2014-03-03 02:10:56 PM

ScaryBottles: Do you really believe that Vichimitter?

Not to ruin your little Harlequin Romance Daydreams but umhh.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditu re s

I'll start pissing my pants when they can afford to field even a 1/5 of our forces. If there is one thing the U.S. still does better than anyone its killing people.


If we wanted to, we could easily defeat Russia in a (non-nuclear) war.  (Nuclear war would be a tie in the "A strange game" sense.)

Of course, we would lose ten of thousands of US soldiers, kill hundreds of thousands of Russian soldiers, and who knows how many civilians would die...which is why we don't want to.
 
2014-03-03 02:12:56 PM

mistrmind: So you have nothing intelligent to add.   Okay troll.


Funniest thing I've seen all day.
 
2014-03-03 02:13:15 PM

QU!RK1019: mistrmind: Have you ever formed an opinion on your own?  Or do you just have it spoon fed?

Go whack off somewhere else.


Awww.  What's a matter?   Can't talk intelligently about the subject at hand?
 
2014-03-03 02:13:30 PM

QU!RK1019: I was just playing the same "Jump To Conclusions!" game you were, man.


My point is that it's easy to call for military intervention when its somebody else that will do the fighting. Would these armchair saber rattlers really be as gung-ho about intervention if they were the ones who would be put in harms way?

A military intervention is not a Hollywood movie. The cost is very real, both in terms of people's lives and economic consequences. A knee-jerk, sound tough reaction is not a valid reason for getting involved in a military conflict.
 
2014-03-03 02:13:51 PM

Tyee: grumpfuff: Hmm. And how exactly is me parroting what my friends have said any different than him parroting what people he talked to told him?

So you're now saying that my opinion is at least as valuable as yours?  But you never went, you just talked, and devalued my seeing and hearing with my own eyes over your...what?

Never mind.


Please point out where I did this.
 
2014-03-03 02:15:55 PM

TrollingForColumbine: danknerd: manbart: Why should the United States be obligated to intervene? If anything, the US should formerly exit NATO, what is the point of being a member anyway?

Why should I care if Russia invades Crimea?

Because Ukraine gave up their nukes for protection by the U.S. (and others), if the U.S. doesn't honor the treaty, the U.S. looks weak and not trustworthy. Plus, then all the treaties of Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons go right out the window and every country will then want to protect themselves directly with Nukes instead of the international communities coming in.

interesting thanks for the info
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_Ukraine


If I'm reading that correctly, the only thing the US needs to do considering the current circumstances is "bring any incident of aggression by a nuclear power before the UN Security Council."  So, we send it to the UN Security Council, Russia vetos any action, and that's the end of that.
 
2014-03-03 02:15:56 PM

mistrmind: grumpfuff: mistrmind: grumpfuff: Tyee: grumpfuff: Yes, tell us about your extensive travels

Europe last year, S. America this year.  You basing your opinion on what the party tells you or are you just oblivious?

I'm basing my opinion on the friends I have in Europe, Asia, and the Middle East. Nice try though.

So what you are saying you have no opinion.  You're just a parrot for your "friends".

Hmm. And how exactly is me parroting what my friends have said any different than him parroting what people he talked to told him?

Have you ever formed an opinion on your own?  Or do you just have it spoon fed?



So forming an opinion based on perceptions others have told me(not all of whom agree, btw), is not forming an opinion. Got it.
 
2014-03-03 02:17:52 PM

Geotpf: TrollingForColumbine: danknerd: manbart: Why should the United States be obligated to intervene? If anything, the US should formerly exit NATO, what is the point of being a member anyway?

Why should I care if Russia invades Crimea?

Because Ukraine gave up their nukes for protection by the U.S. (and others), if the U.S. doesn't honor the treaty, the U.S. looks weak and not trustworthy. Plus, then all the treaties of Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons go right out the window and every country will then want to protect themselves directly with Nukes instead of the international communities coming in.

interesting thanks for the info
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_Ukraine

If I'm reading that correctly, the only thing the US needs to do considering the current circumstances is "bring any incident of aggression by a nuclear power before the UN Security Council."  So, we send it to the UN Security Council, Russia vetos any action, and that's the end of that.


It does have a beautiful simplicity, does it not?
 
2014-03-03 02:18:23 PM

grumpfuff: mistrmind: grumpfuff: mistrmind: grumpfuff: Tyee: grumpfuff: Yes, tell us about your extensive travels

Europe last year, S. America this year.  You basing your opinion on what the party tells you or are you just oblivious?

I'm basing my opinion on the friends I have in Europe, Asia, and the Middle East. Nice try though.

So what you are saying you have no opinion.  You're just a parrot for your "friends".

Hmm. And how exactly is me parroting what my friends have said any different than him parroting what people he talked to told him?

Have you ever formed an opinion on your own?  Or do you just have it spoon fed?


So forming an opinion based on biased perceptions others have told me(not all of whom agree, btw), is not forming an opinion. Got it.



Fixed.
 
2014-03-03 02:18:52 PM

pup.socket: Actually, there is a lot Obama and the US can do about it that doesn't involve military action.


Kicking Russia out of the G8 would make international investors quite nervous. And Putin's given Muslims in Crimea every reason to go Chechnya on him. I agree with Fareed Zakaria on this one. Putin's blowback will be the price he pays. The economic and social squeeze will be a far more powerful long-term weapon than any military show of force.
 
2014-03-03 02:18:57 PM

Tyee: Hardly anyone respects Obama's dog anyway.


Confirmation bias?  In my right-wing blog world?  I find that hard to believe.
 
2014-03-03 02:20:02 PM

mistrmind: QU!RK1019: mistrmind: Have you ever formed an opinion on your own?  Or do you just have it spoon fed?

Go whack off somewhere else.

Awww.  What's a matter?   Can't talk intelligently about the subject at hand?


Not with shiatbags like you around.
 
2014-03-03 02:20:14 PM

Geotpf: ScaryBottles: Do you really believe that Vichimitter?

Not to ruin your little Harlequin Romance Daydreams but umhh.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditu re s

I'll start pissing my pants when they can afford to field even a 1/5 of our forces. If there is one thing the U.S. still does better than anyone its killing people.

If we wanted to, we could easily defeat Russia in a (non-nuclear) war.  (Nuclear war would be a tie in the "A strange game" sense.)

Of course, we would lose ten of thousands of US soldiers, kill hundreds of thousands of Russian soldiers, and who knows how many civilians would die...which is why we don't want to.


I think you're significantly underestimating those casualty figures.
 
2014-03-03 02:21:11 PM

WTF Indeed: The Russian economy, and therefore all of Putin's power, is based around the Oligarchs. If the West was the freeze their funds outside of the country and make it extremely hard for them to do business outside of the country, the Russian economy would crumble.


That is precisely what is happening.
 
2014-03-03 02:21:30 PM

QU!RK1019: mistrmind: QU!RK1019: mistrmind: Have you ever formed an opinion on your own?  Or do you just have it spoon fed?

Go whack off somewhere else.

Awww.  What's a matter?   Can't talk intelligently about the subject at hand?

Not with shiatbags like you around.


So you can't talk intelligently.   Perhaps you should go play on the Entertainment threads here.
 
2014-03-03 02:21:35 PM

davynelson: I'm sorry, but what right does the USA have to piss on ANYBODY regarding illegally invading another country?

fark you and your hypocritical bullshiat.

Mind your own business and you'll notice your country is in the crapper.


Hi, I'm Billy Mays!  Are you tired of America lecturing you over their own fark ups?  Have you been enviously eying a chunk of your neighbor only to have a hypocritical America wag its finger at you?  Then you need IraqAway!  IraqAway is the radical new foreign policy that allows you to seize assets from your neighbor without worrying about what America thinks!  So go ahead China, bite off a chunk of Japan.  Kashmir not enough for you India?  Grab whatever pieces of Pakistan you like.  And we haven't forgotten about you Turkey!  This is your chance to put those dreams of a free Kurdistan in the crapper once and for all!  Today only, America farked up and YOU get the prize!  Every ethnic-majority region must go!  Call now and we'll even throw in a free Alsace-Lorraine!  This offer won't last, so act now!
 
2014-03-03 02:22:49 PM

DamnYankees: ongbok: Tyee: Obama has all but made the US irrelevant on the world stage in only five years.  He commands such little respect internationally theses days.  The silver lining is we don't need to be involved, that is, other than our NATO obligations...

There isn't any NATO obligations because Ukraine isn't a NATO member, And with that being said there is no need to address the rest of your post, because your whole NATO obligations line showed how much of an uniformed , imaginary world living idiot you are.

There are interesting NATO implications given Putin's actions. Putin has made it clear that he considers it his right to use military force to defend "Russiasn", as he sees them. That's what happened in Georgia, its whats happening in Ukraine. Neither of those countries are in NATO. But there are countries in NATO which have Russian minorities - Poland, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania most obviously. What happens if he starts to push there?


He won't.  NATO is a true military alliance.  An attack against any NATO country by any country is to be treated by all NATO countries as a direct attack on them.

IE, if Russia attacked Poland, Estonia, Latvia, or Lithuania, the United States would treat it as if Russia attacked the United States directly.  This would start World War III, which Russia doesn't want.  Putin's not an idiot.
 
2014-03-03 02:22:54 PM

mistrmind: grumpfuff: mistrmind: grumpfuff: mistrmind: grumpfuff: Tyee: grumpfuff: Yes, tell us about your extensive travels

Europe last year, S. America this year.  You basing your opinion on what the party tells you or are you just oblivious?

I'm basing my opinion on the friends I have in Europe, Asia, and the Middle East. Nice try though.

So what you are saying you have no opinion.  You're just a parrot for your "friends".

Hmm. And how exactly is me parroting what my friends have said any different than him parroting what people he talked to told him?

Have you ever formed an opinion on your own?  Or do you just have it spoon fed?


So forming an opinion based on biased perceptions others have told me(not all of whom agree, btw), is not forming an opinion. Got it.


Fixed.


So you missed the part where I said not all of them agree, huh?

By the way, the really funny part about this is that I don't have an overly positive view. They just don't view us as "irrelevant."
 
2014-03-03 02:23:25 PM

grumpfuff: Yes, tell us about your extensive travels all over the world and how you gained an in-depth knowledge of how other countries view the US.Or are you just saying that because feels?


Was that you?  Asked and delivered.  We're done, continue on defending the indefensible, it makes you look so smart.
 
2014-03-03 02:24:32 PM

Tyee: grumpfuff: Yes, tell us about your extensive travels all over the world and how you gained an in-depth knowledge of how other countries view the US.Or are you just saying that because feels?

Was that you?  Asked and delivered.  We're done, continue on defending the indefensible, it makes you look so smart.


You mean the part before you mentioned your travels?

My apologies, let me be more specific. Please point out where I dismissed your travels AFTER you told me about them.
 
2014-03-03 02:24:57 PM

mistrmind: QU!RK1019: mistrmind: QU!RK1019: mistrmind: Have you ever formed an opinion on your own?  Or do you just have it spoon fed?

Go whack off somewhere else.

Awww.  What's a matter?   Can't talk intelligently about the subject at hand?

Not with shiatbags like you around.

So you can't talk intelligently.   Perhaps you should go play on the Entertainment threads here.


Send us a postcard from pl0nkistan
 
2014-03-03 02:25:06 PM

Skleenar: In my right-wing blog world?


Don't have one unless its here.
 
2014-03-03 02:25:21 PM

Mentat: davynelson: I'm sorry, but what right does the USA have to piss on ANYBODY regarding illegally invading another country?

fark you and your hypocritical bullshiat.

Mind your own business and you'll notice your country is in the crapper.

Hi, I'm Billy Mays!  Are you tired of America lecturing you over their own fark ups?  Have you been enviously eying a chunk of your neighbor only to have a hypocritical America wag its finger at you?  Then you need IraqAway!  IraqAway is the radical new foreign policy that allows you to seize assets from your neighbor without worrying about what America thinks!  So go ahead China, bite off a chunk of Japan.  Kashmir not enough for you India?  Grab whatever pieces of Pakistan you like.  And we haven't forgotten about you Turkey!  This is your chance to put those dreams of a free Kurdistan in the crapper once and for all!  Today only, America farked up and YOU get the prize!  Every ethnic-majority region must go!  Call now and we'll even throw in a free Alsace-Lorraine!  This offer won't last, so act now!


France eyes Quibec.... the rest of Canada seen in the backgound doing a happy dance.
 
2014-03-03 02:28:29 PM
Obama should use his Kenyan sorcery to force Putin onto Obamacare. As we all know, Obamacare immediately drives up healthcare costs beyond the means of the president's political foes.

Checkmate, Comrade Putin.
 
2014-03-03 02:30:30 PM
Though all choices come with drawbacks, there are considerable options in the spectrum of action that fall in between strongly worded letters and tossing nukes haphazardly.

So, who does Putin have checking his breakfast cereal for Polonium?
 
2014-03-03 02:30:43 PM

qorkfiend: Geotpf: ScaryBottles: Do you really believe that Vichimitter?

Not to ruin your little Harlequin Romance Daydreams but umhh.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditu re s

I'll start pissing my pants when they can afford to field even a 1/5 of our forces. If there is one thing the U.S. still does better than anyone its killing people.

If we wanted to, we could easily defeat Russia in a (non-nuclear) war.  (Nuclear war would be a tie in the "A strange game" sense.)

Of course, we would lose ten of thousands of US soldiers, kill hundreds of thousands of Russian soldiers, and who knows how many civilians would die...which is why we don't want to.

I think you're significantly underestimating those casualty figures.


Possibly.  Depends on how the war would happen.  Do we literally have to send US troops to take Red Square, or do they actually surrender after we bomb the crap out of them for weeks?  Assuming nukes are off the table, we should be able to have air superiority.

Of course, said war will never actually happen, so meh.
 
2014-03-03 02:30:45 PM

grumpfuff: My apologies,


Your forgiven, but as I said, we're done.  You have defense and deflection to play.
 
2014-03-03 02:31:46 PM

Tyee: grumpfuff: My apologies,

Your forgiven, but as I said, we're done.  You have defense and deflection to play.


lol

Quoting out of context for the win!

How's the weather up on that cross?
 
2014-03-03 02:33:09 PM

Tyee: Your forgiven


You're/ you are/ forgiven.   That is twice today, my fault.
 
2014-03-03 02:33:45 PM

Tyee: Was that you? Asked and delivered. We're done, continue on defending the indefensible, it makes you look so smart.


What is "indefensible" in this instance?  I assume you are talking about some action or non-action by the US.  Please be specific.
 
2014-03-03 02:35:42 PM

Tyee: ongbok: Tyee: Obama has all but made the US irrelevant on the world stage in only five years.  He commands such little respect internationally theses days.  The silver lining is we don't need to be involved, that is, other than our NATO obligations...

There isn't any NATO obligations because Ukraine isn't a NATO member, And with that being said there is no need to address the rest of your post, because your whole NATO obligations.....


http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2014/02/28/ukraine-appeals-us-uk- so vereignty

Your right it's the UK and USA obligations.  Now feel free to address the rendering of irrelevance Obama has bestowed on the USA.  Don't bother, please just continue to defend his ineptitude, it suits you better ignoring the obvious.


And the US and UK are doing what is required of them by that agreement.

Why do you all keep bringing this up over and over when every time you bring it up you get slapped down? I guess Emerson was right when he said "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds"
 
2014-03-03 02:39:44 PM

manbart: My point is that it's easy to call for military intervention when its somebody else that will do the fighting. Would these armchair saber rattlers really be as gung-ho about intervention if they were the ones who would be put in harms way?

A military intervention is not a Hollywood movie. The cost is very real, both in terms of people's lives and economic consequences. A knee-jerk, sound tough reaction is not a valid reason for getting involved in a military conflict.


You're still making assumptions about his background, though.  Even someone who has experienced the hell of war may still concede its necessity.

The point is, if you're personally feeling as though the crisis in Ukraine isn't worth the cost, come right out and say it.  But don't just assume he doesn't give a shiat about the real costs of war.  Everyone knows that, especially in present day America.
 
2014-03-03 02:39:56 PM

Skleenar: Tyee: Was that you? Asked and delivered. We're done, continue on defending the indefensible, it makes you look so smart.

What is "indefensible" in this instance?  I assume you are talking about some action or non-action by the US.  Please be specific.


No, he's just declaring victory over me because I had the audacity to not read his mind and know he had traveled.
 
2014-03-03 02:42:34 PM

Skleenar: Please be specific.


Putin has no respect for Obama or the threats Obama makes of consequences.   In the past Putin at least would take out a full page in the NYT or The Post.  I doubt he'll be giving Obama that much of an acknowledgement of importance this time around.

Specific enough?  Feel free to defend Obama's command for respectability.
 
2014-03-03 02:43:10 PM

grumpfuff: No, he's just declaring victory over me because I had the audacity to not read his mind and know he had traveled.


Everyone knows that mindreading is how the Right is always so far ahead of the Left in this country.  They're simply better infromed because of their psychic powers.
 
2014-03-03 02:43:37 PM

mistrmind: So you can't talk intelligently.   Perhaps you should go play on the Entertainment threads here.


WHY THE AD HOMINEM ATTACKS, YOU TROLL?!
 
2014-03-03 02:43:49 PM

Tyee: Putin has no respect for Obama or the threats Obama makes of consequences.


See?  Mindreading.

How can a poor lefty compete with omniscience like this?
 
2014-03-03 02:46:47 PM

abb3w: Though all choices come with drawbacks, there are considerable options in the spectrum of action that fall in between strongly worded letters and tossing nukes haphazardly.

So, who does Putin have checking his breakfast cereal for Polonium?


He's spent the last five years building up an immunity to Polonium.
 
2014-03-03 02:47:39 PM
For what its worth, a colleague of mine in touch with Ukraine's leftist movement has linked to a new statement from an anarchist collective there accusing the local liberals of collaborating with Yanukovych and propping up Russian influence there in the name of "anti-fascism."
 
2014-03-03 02:48:55 PM
We can try to do some things economically but no one is going to risk a nuclear World War III.  The fact that we have no real military option should be no surprise.  See Georgia 2008, Afghanistan 1979, Czechoslovakia 1968, Hungary 1956.  All the blustering by the right wing folks is just a lot of talk made with the knowledge that with their talk there is no action or consequences.  And the truth is that Russia takes no action if and when we do similar.
 
2014-03-03 02:50:28 PM

Tyee: Feel free to defend Obama's command for respectability.


Despite your obvious Obama Derangement Syndrome issues, this really doesn't have anything to do with him. His statement was made essentially alongside David Cameron's and was in reference to the Budapest Memorandum.
 
2014-03-03 02:50:39 PM

Skleenar: See? Mindreading.


As apposed to mindless readings into the obvious I guess.

Good luck to you Skleenar,
 
2014-03-03 02:52:19 PM

QU!RK1019: You're still making assumptions about his background, though.  Even someone who has experienced the hell of war may still concede its necessity.

The point is, if you're personally feeling as though the crisis in Ukraine isn't worth the cost, come right out and say it.  But don't just assume he doesn't give a shiat about the real costs of war.  Everyone knows that, especially in present day America.


You're right, I am making assumptions. But this is the Fark politics tab, isn't that par for the course? If my assumptions were wrong, I think those posters would have called me out by now anyway.

I don't think it's any secret that I personally don't feel as though the crisis in the Ukraine is worth the cost. This should be clear from my posts in this thread.
 
2014-03-03 02:55:04 PM

Tyee: Skleenar: Please be specific.

Putin has no respect for Obama or the threats Obama makes of consequences.   In the past Putin at least would take out a full page in the NYT or The Post.  I doubt he'll be giving Obama that much of an acknowledgement of importance this time around.

Specific enough?  Feel free to defend Obama's command for respectability.


Okay, let's say you're correct and he doesn't respect Obama or his threats.  How would this be different from Romney?  What would Romney have done now or the the past 5-6 years such that it would have prevented Russia from invading the Crimean peninsula?
 
2014-03-03 02:55:09 PM

manbart: You're right, I am making assumptions. But this is the Fark politics tab, isn't that par for the course? If my assumptions were wrong, I think those posters would have called me out by now anyway.

I don't think it's any secret that I personally don't feel as though the crisis in the Ukraine is worth the cost. This should be clear from my posts in this thread.


This is the Fark politics tab, which means you should never utter those wretched words: "You're right."  ;)
 
2014-03-03 02:58:55 PM

Tomahawk513: How would this be different from Romney? What would Romney have done now or the the past 5-6 years such that it would have prevented Russia from invading the Crimean peninsula?


Don't be silly.  Rmoney is basically a democrat. You should be asking how fearful Putin would be of the Canadian Cruzer that is the rightful president in right-wing Contrafactualstan.
 
2014-03-03 02:59:40 PM

Isitoveryet: QU!RK1019: Remember when Bush murdered Saddam with the blunt force of his macho American donkey phallus?  Pepperidge Farm remembers.  Stupid Obama will just appease Putin.  Palin would drowned him with her milky teats.

it would be like that scene in Conan the Barbarian (the old one, not the crappy new one) when Conan (Putin) gets seduced by the witch (Palin) who eventually turns into a ball of blue flame & exits the scene when she realizes that Conan has bested her both physically and sexually.

what i'm saying is that Palin is a worthless lash batter.


My friends and I also had a neat trick for conjuring a ball of blue flame.
 
2014-03-03 03:03:09 PM

Tomahawk513: Okay, let's say you're correct and he doesn't respect Obama or his threats.


We already know that, and this isn't and doesn't have anything to do with Romney.  We or I have no known circumstances of interaction between them unless they are invented.
 
2014-03-03 03:05:50 PM
Tomahawk513: Okay, let's say you're correct and he doesn't respect Obama or his threats.

Tyee: We already know that


It was beamed into our heads from the EIB network.  It's more factual than fact.
 
2014-03-03 03:07:37 PM

mrshowrules: what i'm saying is that Palin is a worthless lash batter.

My friends and I also had a neat trick for conjuring a ball of blue flame.


we're not talking about lighting our farts on fire are we? I hear you can actually explode doing that.
 
2014-03-03 03:08:05 PM

Tyee: Tomahawk513: Okay, let's say you're correct and he doesn't respect Obama or his threats.

We already know that, and this isn't and doesn't have anything to do with Romney.  We or I have no known circumstances of interaction between them unless they are invented.


His point is that in all likely hood Putin would have done this regardless of who the US President is.  This is more about Putin being a megalomaniac than anything Obama has said or done.
 
2014-03-03 03:09:18 PM
How about economic sanctions against its oil exports? How about a ban on luxury exports into Russia? How about kicking it out of the G8? How about restrictions on tech imports?

For fark's sakes we do the same thing to China and Iran.
 
2014-03-03 03:11:57 PM

Tyee: Obama has all but made the US irrelevant on the world stage in only five years.  He commands such little respect internationally theses days.  The silver lining is we don't need to be involved, that is, other than our NATO obligations...


Unlike the previous 8 years, when the US was so well beloved and respected.
 
2014-03-03 03:15:32 PM

Almost Everybody Poops: This is more about Putin being a megalomaniac than anything Obama has said or done.


No, this is about "respect", and who Putin would or wouldn't.  Because that's what's really important on the world stage:  Who a Russian strongman would respect.

You wouldn't understand, because you're a libtard and probably a homosexual.  What the US needs is a muscular international presence, one backed by a credible, masculine military that can project its power with deep thrusts into the yielding core of even the most hardened opponent.  That is the only way you can stay on top and show the bear who's boss.
 
2014-03-03 03:23:44 PM

DamnYankees: Skleenar: DamnYankees: There are interesting NATO implications given Putin's actions. Putin has made it clear that he considers it his right to use military force to defend "Russiasn", as he sees them. That's what happened in Georgia, its whats happening in Ukraine. Neither of those countries are in NATO. But there are countries in NATO which have Russian minorities - Poland, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania most obviously. What happens if he starts to push there?

I am pretty sure that the Kremlin arithmetic changes for those countries. Nor do they seem as important to the Russians in an economic and defense sense as Ukraine.

Changes, sure. I mean, I would imagine Russia is less likely to attach Latvia than Ukraine. But that doesn't mean the chances move to 0.


One of two things: War, or NATO falls apart as no one can trust anyone will help them. The Baltics have tried their level best to contribute excessively. Lithuania decided there's no point in going with a big an army as possible because they can't possibly last minutes against Russia. So they went small and spent huge amount of their budget to make the best brigade they could in terms of training, equipping, and (most importantly) deployability. The Motorized Infantry "Iron Wolf" Brigade has spent substantial amount of time in Afghanistan fighting with the US and taking on significant responsibilities. They invaded Iraq with America. When asked, they deployed to Bosnia and Kosovo.

I'm just sad to think it'll eventually be all for naught because when Russia comes-a-knockin', the American public will just say, "Who? Why? What have they done for us? That's Russia's sphere of influence we have no business there."
 
2014-03-03 03:25:46 PM

Isitoveryet: mrshowrules: what i'm saying is that Palin is a worthless lash batter.

My friends and I also had a neat trick for conjuring a ball of blue flame.

we're not talking about lighting our farts on fire are we? I hear you can actually explode doing that.


Danger is my middle name.
 
2014-03-03 03:26:19 PM

Almost Everybody Poops: His point is that in all likely hood Putin would have done this regardless of who the US President is. This is more about Putin being a megalomaniac than anything Obama has said or done.


Possibly.  But it is obvious Putin holds little regard for Obama and his threats, that was my point. That is what the Obama Defence Team has mobilized against.  They haven't said that Putin respects and fears Obama, they just won't admit he doesn't.  As for the; but any other president.... blah, blah, blah isn't relevant to Obama and Putin's relationship, however deflection from it seems to be strangely necessary.
 
2014-03-03 03:29:13 PM
Heck, the Ukraine sent a regiment to Iraq with America. See what that bought them?

"Who? Why? What have they done for us?"
 
2014-03-03 03:30:44 PM

Tyee: Possibly. But it is obvious Putin holds little regard for Obama and his threats, that was my point. That is what the Obama Defence Team has mobilized against. They haven't said that Putin respects and fears Obama, they just won't admit he doesn't.


1. It's amazing how you guys equate "respect" and "fear".
2. There's another point being made, and that is that what you are suggesting is critical is not only subjective, but irrelevant.
 
2014-03-03 03:34:58 PM
What this thread makes me think of.


i1.ytimg.com
 
2014-03-03 03:35:22 PM

vygramul: Heck, the Ukraine sent a regiment to Iraq with America. See what that bought them?

"Who? Why? What have they done for us?"


Buh?
 
2014-03-03 03:35:36 PM

Tyee: Obama has all but made the US irrelevant on the world stage in only five years.  He commands such little respect internationally theses days.  The silver lining is we don't need to be involved, that is, other than our NATO obligations...


You must be trolling because nobody is that stupid.
 
2014-03-03 03:36:47 PM
That's not true, subby.
img.fark.net
 
2014-03-03 03:37:23 PM

Tyee: Almost Everybody Poops: His point is that in all likely hood Putin would have done this regardless of who the US President is. This is more about Putin being a megalomaniac than anything Obama has said or done.

Possibly.  But it is obvious Putin holds little regard for Obama and his threats, that was my point. That is what the Obama Defence Team has mobilized against.  They haven't said that Putin respects and fears Obama, they just won't admit he doesn't.  As for the; but any other president.... blah, blah, blah isn't relevant to Obama and Putin's relationship, however deflection from it seems to be strangely necessary.


If the past is any indication, it's pretty clear Putin does what Putin wants and fark the consequences.  Regardless of what he thinks about Obama, it seems apparent that this is going to have a huge negative economic impact on Russia (today being some evidence).  NATO is holding a meeting tomorrow and the EU + US on Thursday, and they've been very clear that sanctions are certainly on the table, which could exacerbate the blow to their economy.  In other words, I don't think ol' Pooty poots has thought his whole plan through, but I guess we'll see in the coming days.
 
2014-03-03 03:38:34 PM

Skleenar: Tyee: Possibly. But it is obvious Putin holds little regard for Obama and his threats, that was my point. That is what the Obama Defence Team has mobilized against. They haven't said that Putin respects and fears Obama, they just won't admit he doesn't.

1. It's amazing how you guys equate "respect" and "fear".
2. There's another point being made, and that is that what you are suggesting is critical is not only subjective, but irrelevant.


Thank you.  The Derp was so think I couldn't even conceptualize a response.  You said it so much better than I could have.
 
2014-03-03 03:38:36 PM
www.washingtonpost.com
Members of the Crimean self-defense unit stand guard at the local government headquarters in Simferopol, Crimea, on Sunday. (REUTERS/David Mdzinarishvili)

Russian Religious Fanatics...awesome
 
2014-03-03 03:40:54 PM

Skleenar: 1. It's amazing how you guys equate "respect" and "fear".


Who are "you guys"?
And you are familiar with respect and fear not meaning being afraid aren't you?  To respect and fear doesn't mean Putin has to be thinking of a military threat to have respect and fear.  It is a commonly used phrase that shouldn't have to be explained.
I personally fear the turtle, but in now way expect the Maryland mascot to invoke violence upon me.

You've become so tiresome because of having to explain everything to you.
 
2014-03-03 03:42:10 PM
Ukraine has 5 nuclear power plants--two of which are in the disputed Eastern region of the country. I would support a VERY limited mission of NATO forces securing these facilities to ensure that neither side could attempt to create another Chernobyl.
 
2014-03-03 03:45:42 PM

clancifer: NeoAnderthal: This reminds me of Bill Clinton constantly wagging his impotent finger at Saddam Hussein. we all saw what that got us. This is exactly why liberals have the deserved reputation for being pussies on the world stage.

It got us not having a trillion+ spent on an unnecessary war? It got us not having 4k dead soldiers and tens of thousands wounded?


You're literally retarded if you think that 4k dead and 20k wounded makes for a major war. That's a farking border skirmish in just about any other period in history.
 
2014-03-03 03:46:56 PM

The Bruce Dickinson: [www.washingtonpost.com image 606x398]
Members of the Crimean self-defense unit stand guard at the local government headquarters in Simferopol, Crimea, on Sunday. (REUTERS/David Mdzinarishvili)

Russian Religious Fanatics...awesome


Christians know a thing or two about martyrdom.  Whatever Putin decides, the repercussions could out live him.
 
2014-03-03 03:50:14 PM

youmightberight: clancifer: NeoAnderthal: This reminds me of Bill Clinton constantly wagging his impotent finger at Saddam Hussein. we all saw what that got us. This is exactly why liberals have the deserved reputation for being pussies on the world stage.

It got us not having a trillion+ spent on an unnecessary war? It got us not having 4k dead soldiers and tens of thousands wounded?

You're literally retarded if you think that 4k dead and 20k wounded makes for a major war. That's a farking border skirmish in just about any other period in history.


And this has fark-all to do with the point you're responding to.
 
2014-03-03 03:50:55 PM
The most significant thing, arguably, that the Obama presidency has done in worldwide affairs is bring back respect to the effectiveness of the US as a global leader. Bush had tons of it in the form of sympathy after he got caught off guard on 911. But he quickly squandered it with his thoughtless rampaging. Obama has since cultivated a strong voice with his reserve, diplomacy, resolve and decisive action when necessary. He personally has earned great respect throughout the world. Only a idiot would think otherwise.
 
2014-03-03 03:52:57 PM

clancifer: NeoAnderthal: This reminds me of Bill Clinton constantly wagging his impotent finger at Saddam Hussein. we all saw what that got us. This is exactly why liberals have the deserved reputation for being pussies on the world stage.

It got us not having a trillion+ spent on an unnecessary war? It got us not having 4k dead soldiers and tens of thousands wounded?


Wait, given the choice of a Clinton-style No Fly Zone or a Bush style Invasion-then-a-decade of clusterfark, we're liking the clusterfark better?
 
2014-03-03 03:53:21 PM

qorkfiend: vygramul: Heck, the Ukraine sent a regiment to Iraq with America. See what that bought them?

"Who? Why? What have they done for us?"

Buh?


"It's Russia's sphere of influence."

"We have no business over there."
 
2014-03-03 03:58:37 PM

super_grass: How about economic sanctions against its oil exports? How about a ban on luxury exports into Russia? How about kicking it out of the G8? How about restrictions on tech imports?

For fark's sakes we do the same thing to China and Iran.


HAhahahahahahah hahahahahah OMG LMFAO.. You are hilarious. If you'd lay down the weed for a moment and do some google foo you would realize how absolutely saying we do that to China (owns us) and Iran(by the way no one is friends with Iran or really trades with them) OMFG LOL
 
2014-03-03 04:00:02 PM

Cup_O_Jo: China (owns us)


Jesus christ, do you get your news from your cereal box or the daily show or something?
 
2014-03-03 04:03:23 PM
The American Military Complex doesn't function optimally unless there's a person in charge of a foreign state (or similar organization) onto whom all the idealized attributes of pure evil can be projected.

Tough luck, Kim Jong-Un, you haven't paid enough dues to be a main eventer yet.  For the time being, it's Vladimir "The Russian Bear" Putin that gets to wear the Big Gold Belt formerly held by Bin Laden, Hussein, Khomeini, Gorbachev, Tojo, Hitler, etc.
 
2014-03-03 04:05:52 PM
It never ceases to amaze me that a few of the functionally retarded (Republicans) care more about scoring political points when there are lives at risk. They want Obama to look bad and are willing to sacrifice anything to make it so.
 
2014-03-03 04:10:16 PM

mistrmind: Superjew: mistrmind: Superjew: Nothing brings out the freeper retard brigade like a rainy monday morning.

Awwww, is your precious President just not doing it for you.   Awwww.  Poor baby.

That's funny, all the crying in here seems to be on your side of the crib.

Pro tip: that shiny thing you are getting angry at is called a mirror.

No crying here Whinny McWhinester.


That incessant whining you hear is coming from inside the freeperdome, you adorable little budgie, you.
 
2014-03-03 04:12:18 PM

scut207: It never ceases to amaze me that a few of the functionally retarded (Republicans) care more about scoring political points when there are lives at risk. They want Obama to look bad and are willing to sacrifice anything to make it so.


Judging from this post it's not just republicans who make preemptive strikes against imagined enemies.
 
2014-03-03 04:12:35 PM

Cup_O_Jo: China (owns us)


You're an idiot.
 
2014-03-03 04:14:51 PM

Cup_O_Jo: China (owns us)


Since China only owns 8% of our debt, and the Japanese own 7%, does that mean the Japanese also own us?
 
2014-03-03 04:15:01 PM

Cup_O_Jo: China (owns us)


wow
 
2014-03-03 04:19:38 PM

mistrmind: BSABSVR: mistrmind: qorkfiend: mistrmind: pup.socket: Actually, there is a lot Obama and the US can do about it that doesn't involve military action.


Thank you for the biggest laugh I've had all day.

You believe the only options are "Invade now" or "do nothing"?

I believe we have many options to weigh.   However, we're talking Obama here, who is pretty much ineffective and bogged down as a President.   He's more concerned on how he looks than on what the correct course of action should be.

And you would do what exactly?

Nothing.  How does this affect the United States?
Is it worth sacrificing American troops?   Is it strategically important?   Really we should just focus on our country and our national interests.


Literally nothing as in say and do nothing, or nothing as in militarily?  Since Merkel is already in discussions with Putin, it's unlikely that even the doviest of doves could be expected to just walk away and say "leave me out of it".
 
2014-03-03 04:21:19 PM

Almost Everybody Poops: Cup_O_Jo: China (owns us)

wow


Almost Everybody Poops, meet Cup_O-Jo.  She is literally wrong about everything that has ever happened.
 
2014-03-03 04:29:39 PM

BSABSVR: Almost Everybody Poops, meet Cup_O-Jo.


It takes the "Almost" out of that username?
 
2014-03-03 04:38:36 PM
That's some great journalism, right there. First he says there are no "consequences" and Obama was foolish for suggesting there were. Then, he says there are things that the U.S. can do, but suggests Putin won't care. Then he suggests things that Obama should have done but also says Putin might not care about those things, either.

/might get twitter just to follow this intellectual giant
 
2014-03-03 04:52:20 PM

geek_mars: That's some great journalism, right there. First he says there are no "consequences" and Obama was foolish for suggesting there were. Then, he says there are things that the U.S. can do, but suggests Putin won't care. Then he suggests things that Obama should have done but also says Putin might not care about those things, either.

/might get twitter just to follow this intellectual giant


So, you too felt that the author was making unsupportable statements and undermining his own arguments? It's as if he didn't know where he was going and boldly going there.
 
2014-03-03 05:21:09 PM

Cup_O_Jo: super_grass: How about economic sanctions against its oil exports? How about a ban on luxury exports into Russia? How about kicking it out of the G8? How about restrictions on tech imports?

For fark's sakes we do the same thing to China and Iran.

HAhahahahahahah hahahahahah OMG LMFAO.. You are hilarious. If you'd lay down the weed for a moment and do some google foo you would realize how absolutely saying we do that to China (owns us) and Iran(by the way no one is friends with Iran or really trades with them) OMFG LOL


So 7% of our debt is "owning" us?
 
2014-03-03 05:29:04 PM
Is Slate always this farking big of a wet blanket?

Or is this just subby's pounding apathy clawing to the surface?

/drtfa
 
2014-03-03 05:41:39 PM
Obama should have learned after he fumbled Syria, to never make threats he will not back up.
 
2014-03-03 06:22:12 PM

Nemo's Brother: Obama should have learned after he fumbled Syria, to never make threats he will not back up.


Artist's conception of your news gathering process:

cdn2.holytaco.com
 
2014-03-03 06:32:03 PM

Skleenar: Nemo's Brother: Obama should have learned after he fumbled Syria, to never make threats he will not back up.

Artist's conception of your news gathering process:

[cdn2.holytaco.com image 610x367]


Apparently, the real lesson is that Obama shouldn't make threats that result in them backing down.
 
2014-03-03 07:03:22 PM
Wow, even Slate is pointing out President Dipshiat's farkups now?  LOL
 
2014-03-03 07:10:17 PM

SunsetLament: Wow, even Slate is pointing out President Dipshiat's farkups now?  LOL


Which farkups?
 
2014-03-03 07:12:56 PM

danknerd: manbart: Why should the United States be obligated to intervene? If anything, the US should formerly exit NATO, what is the point of being a member anyway?

Why should I care if Russia invades Crimea?

Because Ukraine gave up their nukes for protection by the U.S. (and others), if the U.S. doesn't honor the treaty, the U.S. looks weak and not trustworthy. Plus, then all the treaties of Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons go right out the window and every country will then want to protect themselves directly with Nukes instead of the international communities coming in.


I don't think he was looking for an answer.  Apparently he still thinks people in other nations don't have the ability to cross the ocean.
 
2014-03-03 07:13:31 PM

Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Wow, even Slate is pointing out President Dipshiat's farkups now?  LOL

Which farkups?


You might want to read the thread title before posting.
 
2014-03-03 07:17:08 PM

SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Wow, even Slate is pointing out President Dipshiat's farkups now?  LOL

Which farkups?

You might want to read the thread title before posting.


How is it a farkup to disapprove of Russia massing its military at the border of Ukraine? What specifically would you have Obama do?
 
2014-03-03 07:24:16 PM

Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Wow, even Slate is pointing out President Dipshiat's farkups now?  LOL

Which farkups?

You might want to read the thread title before posting.

How is it a farkup to disapprove of Russia massing its military at the border of Ukraine? What specifically would you have Obama do?


And guess what, there are consequences and Russia is feeling them, like their currency tanking and their market crashing. And this is just from speculation that the west will isolate them. Wait til everybody moves to isolate them.
 
2014-03-03 07:24:51 PM
NeoAnderthal: ...  This is exactly why liberals have the deserved reputation for being pussies on the world stage.

3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-03-03 07:25:32 PM

Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Wow, even Slate is pointing out President Dipshiat's farkups now?  LOL

Which farkups?

You might want to read the thread title before posting.

How is it a farkup to disapprove of Russia massing its military at the border of Ukraine? What specifically would you have Obama do?


Well, either (a) not behave and campaign like a limp wrist for the last 5-6 years, or (b) not threaten something he has absolutely no intention of following through with (again).
 
2014-03-03 07:26:38 PM

ongbok: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Wow, even Slate is pointing out President Dipshiat's farkups now?  LOL

Which farkups?

You might want to read the thread title before posting.

How is it a farkup to disapprove of Russia massing its military at the border of Ukraine? What specifically would you have Obama do?

And guess what, there are consequences and Russia is feeling them, like their currency tanking and their market crashing. And this is just from speculation that the west will isolate them. Wait til everybody moves to isolate them.


I'm sure Putin is going hungry tonight and crying in his bread and water.
 
2014-03-03 07:36:49 PM

SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Wow, even Slate is pointing out President Dipshiat's farkups now?  LOL

Which farkups?

You might want to read the thread title before posting.

How is it a farkup to disapprove of Russia massing its military at the border of Ukraine? What specifically would you have Obama do?

Well, either (a) not behave and campaign like a limp wrist for the last 5-6 years, or (b) not threaten something he has absolutely no intention of following through with (again).


Dude went Ghengis Khan on Iran to get them to the table. WTF are you talking about?
 
2014-03-03 07:37:04 PM

SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Wow, even Slate is pointing out President Dipshiat's farkups now?  LOL

Which farkups?

You might want to read the thread title before posting.

How is it a farkup to disapprove of Russia massing its military at the border of Ukraine? What specifically would you have Obama do?

Well, either (a) not behave and campaign like a limp wrist for the last 5-6 years, or (b) not threaten something he has absolutely no intention of following through with (again).


Considering there may be sanctions. We get it, you hate Obama no matter what he does.
 
2014-03-03 07:42:56 PM

SunsetLament: Well, either (a) not behave and campaign like a limp wrist for the last 5-6 years, or (b) not threaten something he has absolutely no intention of following through with (again).


Homophobe-like typing detected.
 
2014-03-03 07:43:27 PM

iq_in_binary: SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Wow, even Slate is pointing out President Dipshiat's farkups now?  LOL

Which farkups?

You might want to read the thread title before posting.

How is it a farkup to disapprove of Russia massing its military at the border of Ukraine? What specifically would you have Obama do?

Well, either (a) not behave and campaign like a limp wrist for the last 5-6 years, or (b) not threaten something he has absolutely no intention of following through with (again).

Dude went Ghengis Khan on Iran to get them to the table. WTF are you talking about?


Yep. He got Syria to give up its chemical weapons and convinced Iran to give up its nuclear program. The GOP was against it at every turn. If he did the opposite, the GOP would be against him at every turn.
 
2014-03-03 07:44:00 PM

SunsetLament: (b) not threaten something he has absolutely no intention of following through with (again).


Why not? We could threaten attack, send a couple of destroyers through the straits, and then have Putin come forward with a surprise deal to pull all Russian troops out of the Crimea, embarrassing us again.

It would totally be a win for Putin, of course. Just like in Syria.
 
2014-03-03 07:53:22 PM

Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Wow, even Slate is pointing out President Dipshiat's farkups now?  LOL

Which farkups?

You might want to read the thread title before posting.

How is it a farkup to disapprove of Russia massing its military at the border of Ukraine? What specifically would you have Obama do?

Well, either (a) not behave and campaign like a limp wrist for the last 5-6 years, or (b) not threaten something he has absolutely no intention of following through with (again).

Considering there may be sanctions. We get it, you hate Obama no matter what he does.


Oh noes!!!1!!  Not sanctions!!!!  Will there be a sternly worded letter too?
 
2014-03-03 07:55:21 PM

SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Wow, even Slate is pointing out President Dipshiat's farkups now?  LOL

Which farkups?

You might want to read the thread title before posting.

How is it a farkup to disapprove of Russia massing its military at the border of Ukraine? What specifically would you have Obama do?

Well, either (a) not behave and campaign like a limp wrist for the last 5-6 years, or (b) not threaten something he has absolutely no intention of following through with (again).

Considering there may be sanctions. We get it, you hate Obama no matter what he does.

Oh noes!!!1!!  Not sanctions!!!!  Will there be a sternly worded letter too?


So what do you want a war? Crashing there economy will do more harm than military action.
 
2014-03-03 07:57:49 PM

SunsetLament: Oh noes!!!1!!  Not sanctions!!!!  Will there be a sternly worded letter too?


Yes sanctions, you dillhole.
 
2014-03-03 07:58:22 PM

SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Wow, even Slate is pointing out President Dipshiat's farkups now?  LOL

Which farkups?

You might want to read the thread title before posting.

How is it a farkup to disapprove of Russia massing its military at the border of Ukraine? What specifically would you have Obama do?

Well, either (a) not behave and campaign like a limp wrist for the last 5-6 years, or (b) not threaten something he has absolutely no intention of following through with (again).

Considering there may be sanctions. We get it, you hate Obama no matter what he does.

Oh noes!!!1!!  Not sanctions!!!!  Will there be a sternly worded letter too?


You haven't been paying attention have you?

I'd expect sanctions to be followed up by an unfortunate "glitch" in their trading software that rendered their transaction histories corrupted and their trading markets destroyed. Do you not remember Iran?
 
2014-03-03 07:58:39 PM

SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Wow, even Slate is pointing out President Dipshiat's farkups now?  LOL

Which farkups?

You might want to read the thread title before posting.

How is it a farkup to disapprove of Russia massing its military at the border of Ukraine? What specifically would you have Obama do?

Well, either (a) not behave and campaign like a limp wrist for the last 5-6 years, or (b) not threaten something he has absolutely no intention of following through with (again).

Considering there may be sanctions. We get it, you hate Obama no matter what he does.

Oh noes!!!1!!  Not sanctions!!!!  Will there be a sternly worded letter too?


What would you have Obama do, exactly?
 
2014-03-03 08:00:44 PM
Obama tells Russia's Medvedev more flexibility after election - March 26, 2012

(Reuters) - President Barack Obama was caught on camera on Monday assuring outgoing Russian President Dmitry Medvedev that he will have "more flexibility" to deal with contentious issues like missile defense after the U.S. presidential election.  Obama, during talks in Seoul, urged Moscow to give him "space" until after the November ballot, and Medvedev said he would relay the message to incoming Russian president Vladimir Putin.
 
2014-03-03 08:02:40 PM

SunsetLament: Obama tells Russia's Medvedev more flexibility after election - March 26, 2012

(Reuters) - President Barack Obama was caught on camera on Monday assuring outgoing Russian President Dmitry Medvedev that he will have "more flexibility" to deal with contentious issues like missile defense after the U.S. presidential election.  Obama, during talks in Seoul, urged Moscow to give him "space" until after the November ballot, and Medvedev said he would relay the message to incoming Russian president Vladimir Putin.


Don't pretend to not understand sanctions, then act as if you grasp geopolitics.  Pick one and go with it.
 
2014-03-03 08:04:17 PM

Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Wow, even Slate is pointing out President Dipshiat's farkups now?  LOL

Which farkups?

You might want to read the thread title before posting.

How is it a farkup to disapprove of Russia massing its military at the border of Ukraine? What specifically would you have Obama do?

Well, either (a) not behave and campaign like a limp wrist for the last 5-6 years, or (b) not threaten something he has absolutely no intention of following through with (again).

Considering there may be sanctions. We get it, you hate Obama no matter what he does.

Oh noes!!!1!!  Not sanctions!!!!  Will there be a sternly worded letter too?

What would you have Obama do, exactly?



1. Dump as many anti-missile systems into Poland and the Czech Republic as they can hold
2. Put a naval fleet in the Black Sea
3. Cut off all diplomatic contact with Russia
4. Statement to the country affirming our 1994 treaty with the Ukraine and that we intend to uphold our obligations
5. Uphold our obligations.
 
2014-03-03 08:08:14 PM

SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Wow, even Slate is pointing out President Dipshiat's farkups now?  LOL

Which farkups?

You might want to read the thread title before posting.

How is it a farkup to disapprove of Russia massing its military at the border of Ukraine? What specifically would you have Obama do?

Well, either (a) not behave and campaign like a limp wrist for the last 5-6 years, or (b) not threaten something he has absolutely no intention of following through with (again).

Considering there may be sanctions. We get it, you hate Obama no matter what he does.

Oh noes!!!1!!  Not sanctions!!!!  Will there be a sternly worded letter too?

What would you have Obama do, exactly?


1. Dump as many anti-missile systems into Poland and the Czech Republic as they can hold
2. Put a naval fleet in the Black Sea
3. Cut off all diplomatic contact with Russia
4. Statement to the country affirming our 1994 treaty with the Ukraine and that we intend to uphold our obligations
5. Uphold our obligations.


What obligations? You do realize we have literally no interests in the region at all. Ukraine is not a UN country. Putting troops and any American interests in harms way would be foolish. Plus, you would find a way to criticize Obama if he enacted your plan.
 
2014-03-03 08:09:35 PM

SunsetLament: 1. Dump as many anti-missile systems into Poland and the Czech Republic as they can hold
2. Put a naval fleet in the Black Sea
3. Cut off all diplomatic contact with Russia
4. Statement to the country affirming our 1994 treaty with the Ukraine and that we intend to uphold our obligations
5. Uphold our obligations.


You forgot:

6. Crush the enemies
7. See them driven before you
8. Hear the lamentation of their women.

/Quit typing with your war boner.
 
2014-03-03 08:13:32 PM

SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Wow, even Slate is pointing out President Dipshiat's farkups now?  LOL

Which farkups?

You might want to read the thread title before posting.

How is it a farkup to disapprove of Russia massing its military at the border of Ukraine? What specifically would you have Obama do?

Well, either (a) not behave and campaign like a limp wrist for the last 5-6 years, or (b) not threaten something he has absolutely no intention of following through with (again).

Considering there may be sanctions. We get it, you hate Obama no matter what he does.

Oh noes!!!1!!  Not sanctions!!!!  Will there be a sternly worded letter too?

What would you have Obama do, exactly?


1. Dump as many anti-missile systems into Poland and the Czech Republic as they can hold
2. Put a naval fleet in the Black Sea
3. Cut off all diplomatic contact with Russia
4. Statement to the country affirming our 1994 treaty with the Ukraine and that we intend to uphold our obligations
5. Uphold our obligations.


There is no 1994 treaty with Ukraine. These are the obligations the US, UK and Russia have under the agreement you are talking about


Respect Ukrainian independence and sovereignty within its existing borders.
Refrain from the threat or use of force against Ukraine.
Refrain from using economic pressure on Ukraine in order to influence its politics.
Seek United Nations Security Council action if nuclear weapons are used against Ukraine.
Refrain from the use of nuclear arms against Ukraine.
Consult with one another if questions arise regarding these commitments.

We are following through with our obligations. Why do you Obama haters keep bringing this up when every time you do you get made to look like fools?

And by the way your first two ideas wouldn't do anything to get Putin to back down, only thing they would do is cause more tension in the region.
 
2014-03-03 08:13:58 PM

Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Wow, even Slate is pointing out President Dipshiat's farkups now?  LOL

Which farkups?

You might want to read the thread title before posting.

How is it a farkup to disapprove of Russia massing its military at the border of Ukraine? What specifically would you have Obama do?

Well, either (a) not behave and campaign like a limp wrist for the last 5-6 years, or (b) not threaten something he has absolutely no intention of following through with (again).

Considering there may be sanctions. We get it, you hate Obama no matter what he does.

Oh noes!!!1!!  Not sanctions!!!!  Will there be a sternly worded letter too?

What would you have Obama do, exactly?


1. Dump as many anti-missile systems into Poland and the Czech Republic as they can hold
2. Put a naval fleet in the Black Sea
3. Cut off all diplomatic contact with Russia
4. Statement to the country affirming our 1994 treaty with the Ukraine and that we intend to uphold our obligations
5. Uphold our obligations.

What obligations? You do realize we have literally no interests in the region at all. Ukraine is not a UN country. Putting troops and any American interests in harms way would be foolish. Plus, you would find a way to criticize Obama if he enacted your plan.


It takes a truly stupid person to declare that "we have literally no interests in the region at all."  We hold a treaty with them.  Even if you believe it's a stupid treaty ... demonstrating to the world that we uphold our treaty obligations is an obvious national interest.
 
2014-03-03 08:16:06 PM

ongbok: And by the way your first two ideas wouldn't do anything to get Putin to back down, only thing they would do is cause more tension in the region.


I'm just surprised he actually answered.  The cat's out of the bag now; he doesn't have any ideas that are actually better than what Obama's doing.
 
2014-03-03 08:16:29 PM

SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Wow, even Slate is pointing out President Dipshiat's farkups now?  LOL

Which farkups?

You might want to read the thread title before posting.

How is it a farkup to disapprove of Russia massing its military at the border of Ukraine? What specifically would you have Obama do?

Well, either (a) not behave and campaign like a limp wrist for the last 5-6 years, or (b) not threaten something he has absolutely no intention of following through with (again).

Considering there may be sanctions. We get it, you hate Obama no matter what he does.

Oh noes!!!1!!  Not sanctions!!!!  Will there be a sternly worded letter too?

What would you have Obama do, exactly?


1. Dump as many anti-missile systems into Poland and the Czech Republic as they can hold
2. Put a naval fleet in the Black Sea
3. Cut off all diplomatic contact with Russia
4. Statement to the country affirming our 1994 treaty with the Ukraine and that we intend to uphold our obligations
5. Uphold our obligations.

What obligations? You do realize we have literally no interests in the region at all. Ukraine is not a UN country. Putting troops and any American interests in harms way would be foolish. Plus, you would find a way to criticize Obama if he enacted your plan.

It takes a truly stupid person to declare that "we have literally no interests in the region at all."  We hold a treaty with them.  Even if you believe it's a stupid treaty ... demonstrating to the world that we uphold our treaty obligations is an obvious national interest.


We hold no treaty with Ukraine. Your constant insisting that we do shows just how much knowledge you have of the situation and how much credibility your opinions hold.
 
2014-03-03 08:18:38 PM

ongbok: SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Wow, even Slate is pointing out President Dipshiat's farkups now?  LOL

Which farkups?

You might want to read the thread title before posting.

How is it a farkup to disapprove of Russia massing its military at the border of Ukraine? What specifically would you have Obama do?

Well, either (a) not behave and campaign like a limp wrist for the last 5-6 years, or (b) not threaten something he has absolutely no intention of following through with (again).

Considering there may be sanctions. We get it, you hate Obama no matter what he does.

Oh noes!!!1!!  Not sanctions!!!!  Will there be a sternly worded letter too?

What would you have Obama do, exactly?


1. Dump as many anti-missile systems into Poland and the Czech Republic as they can hold
2. Put a naval fleet in the Black Sea
3. Cut off all diplomatic contact with Russia
4. Statement to the country affirming our 1994 treaty with the Ukraine and that we intend to uphold our obligations
5. Uphold our obligations.

What obligations? You do realize we have literally no interests in the region at all. Ukraine is not a UN country. Putting troops and any American interests in harms way would be foolish. Plus, you would find a way to criticize Obama if he enacted your plan.

It takes a truly stupid person to declare that "we have literally no interests in the region at all."  We hold a treaty with them.  Even if you believe it's a stupid treaty ... demonstrating to the world that we uphold our treaty obligations is an obvious national interest.

We hold no treaty with Ukraine. Your constant insisting that we do shows just how much knowledge you have of the situation and how much credibility your opinions hold.


http://www.larouchepub.com/eiw/public/2014/2014_1-9/2014-08/pdf/34-3 5_ 4108.pdf
 
2014-03-03 08:21:40 PM

SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Wow, even Slate is pointing out President Dipshiat's farkups now?  LOL

Which farkups?

You might want to read the thread title before posting.

How is it a farkup to disapprove of Russia massing its military at the border of Ukraine? What specifically would you have Obama do?

Well, either (a) not behave and campaign like a limp wrist for the last 5-6 years, or (b) not threaten something he has absolutely no intention of following through with (again).

Considering there may be sanctions. We get it, you hate Obama no matter what he does.

Oh noes!!!1!!  Not sanctions!!!!  Will there be a sternly worded letter too?

What would you have Obama do, exactly?


1. Dump as many anti-missile systems into Poland and the Czech Republic as they can hold
2. Put a naval fleet in the Black Sea
3. Cut off all diplomatic contact with Russia
4. Statement to the country affirming our 1994 treaty with the Ukraine and that we intend to uphold our obligations
5. Uphold our obligations.

What obligations? You do realize we have literally no interests in the region at all. Ukraine is not a UN country. Putting troops and any American interests in harms way would be foolish. Plus, you would find a way to criticize Obama if he enacted your plan.

It takes a truly stupid person to declare that "we have literally no interests in the region at all."  We hold a treaty with them.  Even if you believe it's a stupid treaty ... demonstrating to the world that we uphold our treaty obligations is an obvious national interest.


No, we don't hold a treaty with Ukraine.

The Budapest Memorandum is:

Respect Ukrainian independence and sovereignty within its existing borders.
Refrain from the threat or use of force against Ukraine.
Refrain from using economic pressure on Ukraine in order to influence its politics.
Seek United Nations Security Council action if nuclear weapons are used against Ukraine.
Refrain from the use of nuclear arms against Ukraine.
Consult with one another if questions arise regarding these commitments.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assuran ce s

This is what we are doing right now. Doing anything other than this would be stupid. I am glad Obama is the adult in the room and people like you are not in charge.
 
2014-03-03 08:26:32 PM

SunsetLament: ongbok: SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Wow, even Slate is pointing out President Dipshiat's farkups now?  LOL

Which farkups?

You might want to read the thread title before posting.

How is it a farkup to disapprove of Russia massing its military at the border of Ukraine? What specifically would you have Obama do?

Well, either (a) not behave and campaign like a limp wrist for the last 5-6 years, or (b) not threaten something he has absolutely no intention of following through with (again).

Considering there may be sanctions. We get it, you hate Obama no matter what he does.

Oh noes!!!1!!  Not sanctions!!!!  Will there be a sternly worded letter too?

What would you have Obama do, exactly?


1. Dump as many anti-missile systems into Poland and the Czech Republic as they can hold
2. Put a naval fleet in the Black Sea
3. Cut off all diplomatic contact with Russia
4. Statement to the country affirming our 1994 treaty with the Ukraine and that we intend to uphold our obligations
5. Uphold our obligations.

What obligations? You do realize we have literally no interests in the region at all. Ukraine is not a UN country. Putting troops and any American interests in harms way would be foolish. Plus, you would find a way to criticize Obama if he enacted your plan.

It takes a truly stupid person to declare that "we have literally no interests in the region at all."  We hold a treaty with them.  Even if you believe it's a stupid treaty ... demonstrating to the world that we uphold our treaty obligations is an obvious national interest.

We hold no treaty with Ukraine. Your constant insisting that we do shows just how much knowledge you have of the situation and how much credibility your opinions hold.

http://www.larouchepub.com/eiw/public/2014/2014_1-9/2014-08/pdf/34-3 5_ 4108.pdf


That is not a treaty, and read my post earlier where I posted our obligations under that agreement. Obligations that we are now honoring.
 
2014-03-03 08:29:39 PM

ongbok: SunsetLament: ongbok: SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Zeppelininthesky: SunsetLament: Wow, even Slate is pointing out President Dipshiat's farkups now?  LOL

Which farkups?

You might want to read the thread title before posting.

How is it a farkup to disapprove of Russia massing its military at the border of Ukraine? What specifically would you have Obama do?

Well, either (a) not behave and campaign like a limp wrist for the last 5-6 years, or (b) not threaten something he has absolutely no intention of following through with (again).

Considering there may be sanctions. We get it, you hate Obama no matter what he does.

Oh noes!!!1!!  Not sanctions!!!!  Will there be a sternly worded letter too?

What would you have Obama do, exactly?


1. Dump as many anti-missile systems into Poland and the Czech Republic as they can hold
2. Put a naval fleet in the Black Sea
3. Cut off all diplomatic contact with Russia
4. Statement to the country affirming our 1994 treaty with the Ukraine and that we intend to uphold our obligations
5. Uphold our obligations.

What obligations? You do realize we have literally no interests in the region at all. Ukraine is not a UN country. Putting troops and any American interests in harms way would be foolish. Plus, you would find a way to criticize Obama if he enacted your plan.

It takes a truly stupid person to declare that "we have literally no interests in the region at all."  We hold a treaty with them.  Even if you believe it's a stupid treaty ... demonstrating to the world that we uphold our treaty obligations is an obvious national interest.

We hold no treaty with Ukraine. Your constant insisting that we do shows just how much knowledge you have of the situation and how much credibility your opinions hold.

http://www.larouchepub.com/eiw/public/2014/2014_1-9/2014-08/pdf/34-3 5_ 4108.pdf

That is not a treaty, and read my p ...


I think that he thinks it is some kind of treaty that lets us invade Russia, or something.
 
2014-03-03 08:29:56 PM

Zeppelininthesky: Consult with one another if questions arise regarding these commitments.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assuran ce s

This is what we are doing right now. Doing anything other than this would be stupid. I am glad Obama is the adult in the room and people like you are not in charge.


ongbok: hat is not a treaty, and read my post earlier where I posted our obligations under that agreement. Obligations that we are now honoring.


Good job FARKERS!  You are FARKERS!

/it's times like these when you wished assholes like SunsetLamenthad a soul, would ponder the facts presented to him, and adjust his worldview accordingly.
 
2014-03-03 08:38:43 PM

QU!RK1019: Zeppelininthesky: Consult with one another if questions arise regarding these commitments.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assuran ce s

This is what we are doing right now. Doing anything other than this would be stupid. I am glad Obama is the adult in the room and people like you are not in charge.

ongbok: hat is not a treaty, and read my post earlier where I posted our obligations under that agreement. Obligations that we are now honoring.

Good job FARKERS!  You are FARKERS!

/it's times like these when you wished assholes like SunsetLamenthad a soul, would ponder the facts presented to him, and adjust his worldview accordingly.


I can just see all of these guys claiming that we have a treaty with Ukraine sitting in front of their computers going through their FWD:FWD:FWD emails for their talking points on this, when they saw the email thread saying that we had a treaty with Ukraine. I can just see them now sitting there with a smug look on their faces and thinking, "Checkmate Libs". Too bad they are incredibly wrong and every time they make that claim they make themselves look like fools.
 
2014-03-03 09:29:26 PM
Sure is a nice suit your emperor is wearing and its always good to know who sees them.
 
2014-03-03 09:33:19 PM

Tyee: Sure is a nice suit your emperor is wearing and its always good to know who sees them.


Putin?
 
2014-03-03 10:16:59 PM

clancifer: NeoAnderthal: This reminds me of Bill Clinton constantly wagging his impotent finger at Saddam Hussein. we all saw what that got us. This is exactly why liberals have the deserved reputation for being pussies on the world stage.

I love how your profile reads like Fox News talking points.  Awesome stuff.


i read it in ron swanson's voice and now i like the character a lot less
 
2014-03-04 12:58:50 AM

mistrmind: pup.socket: Actually, there is a lot Obama and the US can do about it that doesn't involve military action.

Thank you for the biggest laugh I've had all day.


You're very welcome, although I am not sure what are you laughing about.

Russian economy depends very heavily on trade with the West for mostly everything except oil, gas, wood and some ores, and nothing will undermine Putin more than a few months of a complete return to Soviet times, where anything from from cement to pantyhose and lipstick were perpetually lacking. Few months, which the West can easily and swiftly ensure.
 
2014-03-04 02:38:51 AM
SunsetLament:


1. Dump as many anti-missile systems into Poland and the Czech Republic as they can hold
2. Put a naval fleet in the Black Sea
3. Cut off all diplomatic contact with Russia
4. Statement to the country affirming our 1994 treaty with the Ukraine and that we intend to uphold our obligations
5. Uphold our obligations.


6.
 img.gawkerassets.com

// the US is not the only country in NATO, you know - Poland and the C.R. may want to be consulted about your plans.
 
2014-03-04 09:29:03 AM
Well, someone ran away. Wonder why.
 
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