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(Talking Points Memo)   22 maps that explain the history of conflict in Eastern Europe. Needs more Golden Horde Mongols   (talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 41
    More: Interesting, Eastern Europe, Golden Horde, Europe, Ukraine  
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7891 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Mar 2014 at 11:56 AM (28 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



41 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-03-03 10:23:06 AM
I never knew they were called the "Golden Horde"
 
2014-03-03 10:54:36 AM

somedude210: I never knew they were called the "Golden Horde"


i.imgur.com

Excellent discussion of religion and conversion in the Golden Horde by Devin DeWeese.
 
2014-03-03 11:13:23 AM
i1.ytimg.com
 
2014-03-03 11:15:56 AM
Don't forget the 3 R's of dealing with pesky indigenous populations: Round-em-up, Relocate and Repress!
 
2014-03-03 12:06:24 PM
Damn Mongols.  They keep spawning new family members, and if you take their last city they run halfway across the map and revert to wandering nomads, so you have to chase them down and wipe them out one stack at a time.

Don't get me started on their damn horse archers who scurry around the battlemap just out of reach of your cavalry, and refuse to rout.  Fight them takes a lot of missile cavalry.
 
2014-03-03 12:08:59 PM
Wow, central/western Europe was just a mess of tiny little countries for a few hundred years.
 
2014-03-03 12:13:24 PM
pad1.whstatic.com

Damn AOE
 
2014-03-03 12:15:10 PM
Ukraine was strong?
 
2014-03-03 12:17:49 PM
images.wikia.com
 
2014-03-03 12:18:24 PM

Cybernetic: Wow, central/western Europe was just a mess of tiny little countries for a few hundred years.


If you wanted to put a deck on your house you had to annex the neighbouring country.
(Calling it Johio was optional).

They were all nominally part of the Holy Roman Empire (that thick black line surrounding them and bisecting Austria and Prussia), but that didn't stop them going to war with each other.  They all had stupidly long hyphenated names.  The first thing Napoleon did when he started annexing the German states was to combine them into slightly more manageable statelets.  Prussia continued the process after Nappy got Waterlooed and eventually welded them into the Prussian Empire.  The King of Prussia called himself Emperor (Kaiser = Caesar), and the British looked at Germany, looked at their possessions all over the globe and went "You call that an empire?"  Then they added Empress of India to Queen Vickie's titles.

Penis-waving is a time-honoured custom in international diplomacy.
 
2014-03-03 12:21:32 PM

Cybernetic: Wow, central/western Europe was just a mess of tiny little countries for a few hundred years.


Kinda. They were also part of the holy Roman empire. So not entirely independent.
 
2014-03-03 12:25:11 PM

Bondith: If you wanted to put a deck on your house you had to annex the neighbouring country.


Simpler than dealing with a HOA.
 
2014-03-03 12:26:51 PM
Conrad Stargard laughs at your shenanigans.
 
2014-03-03 12:31:16 PM

RexTalionis: [i1.ytimg.com image 850x478]


Love that series.

/Except.....the mongols.
 
2014-03-03 12:32:43 PM
Look at the damn mess right in the  middle there.

a5.img.talkingpointsmemo.com
 
2014-03-03 12:38:32 PM
Member of the Golden Mongol Horde
media.morristechnology.com
\I'm  so going to hell.
 
2014-03-03 12:44:01 PM
All those brightly coloured maps...

*sigh*  I was this close to kicking my EU3 habit too.

/DAMN YOU, PARADOX!
 
2014-03-03 12:46:41 PM
Needs more Cumans/Polovtsy.

1200:
www.euratlas.net
Also, needs more Khazars.

9th century:
www.palestineremembered.com
 
2014-03-03 12:52:16 PM

orclover: RexTalionis: [i1.ytimg.com image 850x478]

Love that series.

/Except.....unless you're the mongols.


FTFY
 
2014-03-03 12:59:53 PM

RexTalionis: [i1.ytimg.com image 850x478]


Another Crash Course fan, I see.

somedude210: I never knew they were called the "Golden Horde"


Here's a quick look at The Mongols.
 
2014-03-03 01:46:15 PM

MBooda: Also, needs more Khazars.


Fun fact: the Khazars were the last Jewish "state" to exist before modern day Israel.
 
2014-03-03 01:50:46 PM
Worst game of Risk, ever!
 
2014-03-03 02:15:39 PM
i50.tinypic.com

Poland...you're screwed.

And Scotland, how did you get there.  Go Home, you're drunk
 
2014-03-03 02:34:18 PM
So, it isn't just so Putin can celebrate Fleet Week bare-chested in Sebastopol and not have the Ukraine/European Press say that's a little gay?


www.rumormillnews.com
 
2014-03-03 02:42:16 PM
I've always wondered.  Did they spell it "Golden Horde" just to piss folks off before they conquered them?

/occupation: horde
//props to GC
 
2014-03-03 02:47:44 PM

LemSkroob: Look at the damn mess right in the  middle there.


First World problems.
 
2014-03-03 03:03:13 PM

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: MBooda: Also, needs more Khazars.

Fun fact: the Khazars were the last Jewish "state" to exist before modern day Israel.


I've always wondered how that works.  Can you just declare yourself Jewish if didn't descend from the Hebrews or marry into the tribe?  Did the Middle Eastern and Diaspora Jews consider the steppe Jews kindred?

Gunderson: And Scotland, how did you get there. Go Home, you're drunk


What's the point in that?  They'll still be drunk when they get home.
 
2014-03-03 03:14:59 PM

CygnusDarius: RexTalionis: [i1.ytimg.com image 850x478]

Another Crash Course fan, I see.somedude210: I never knew they were called the "Golden Horde"

Here's a quick look at The Mongols.


I had never seen that channel, thanks for the introduction to it.
 
2014-03-03 03:17:05 PM

Bondith: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: MBooda: Also, needs more Khazars.

Fun fact: the Khazars were the last Jewish "state" to exist before modern day Israel.

I've always wondered how that works.  Can you just declare yourself Jewish if didn't descend from the Hebrews or marry into the tribe?  Did the Middle Eastern and Diaspora Jews consider the steppe Jews kindred?

Gunderson: And Scotland, how did you get there. Go Home, you're drunk

What's the point in that?  They'll still be drunk when they get home.


There was a large spread of Jews thanks to the Babylonians.  Through genetics they've found some groups who have genetic links to ancient Hebrews in many far-flung locations.
 
2014-03-03 03:23:30 PM

bighairyguy: Worst game of Risk, ever!


This is why you start with Austral-Asia.
 
2014-03-03 04:00:16 PM

LemSkroob: Look at the damn mess right in the  middle there.


A great German word, Kleinstaaterei. There were times when there were 300+ German states.
 
2014-03-03 04:09:36 PM
media.web.britannica.com
 
2014-03-03 04:10:23 PM

Bondith: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: MBooda: Also, needs more Khazars.

Fun fact: the Khazars were the last Jewish "state" to exist before modern day Israel.

I've always wondered how that works.  Can you just declare yourself Jewish if didn't descend from the Hebrews or marry into the tribe?  Did the Middle Eastern and Diaspora Jews consider the steppe Jews kindred?


Did they really declare themselves Jewish?
 
2014-03-03 04:31:00 PM

LewDux: Can you just declare yourself Jewish if didn't descend from the Hebrews or marry into the tribe?


Sure you can, but first you have to give the rabbi a tip.
imgc.allpostersimages.com
 
2014-03-03 05:02:43 PM

LewDux: Bondith: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: MBooda: Also, needs more Khazars.

Fun fact: the Khazars were the last Jewish "state" to exist before modern day Israel.

I've always wondered how that works.  Can you just declare yourself Jewish if didn't descend from the Hebrews or marry into the tribe?  Did the Middle Eastern and Diaspora Jews consider the steppe Jews kindred?

Did they really declare themselves Jewish?


What I recall reading is they wanted to adopt an Abrahamic religion for political purposes, but if they chose Christianity they'd be playing second fiddle to Byzantine, and if they chose Islam they'd fall under the sway of the Caliph.  Since Judiasm didn't have any geopolitical clout, they chose C).

Upon further reading, it's a little more nuanced.
"Jews from both the Islamic world and Byzantium are known to have migrated to Khazaria during periods of persecution... "
 
2014-03-03 05:44:47 PM

Gough: LemSkroob: Look at the damn mess right in the  middle there.

A great German word, Kleinstaaterei. There were times when there were 300+ German states.



Kleinstaaterei - Where every asshole with a horse and a sword declares their own nation.
 
2014-03-03 06:15:03 PM

LemSkroob: Gough: LemSkroob: Look at the damn mess right in the  middle there.

A great German word, Kleinstaaterei. There were times when there were 300+ German states.


Kleinstaaterei - Where every asshole with a horse and a sword declares their own nation.


Where every one of your 18 sons needs a chunk of Dad's inheritance.  4 generations a century times 9 centuries, and towards the end your slice of the pie is half a pig farm outside Oberpfalzenburgorttrup-kerflunkenschtatl.
 
2014-03-03 06:28:50 PM
As a Hungarian Jew descended from the Khazars (at least according to family rumor / genetics), I'm getting a kick out of this.
One of the most fascinating and overlooked ancient states by far. Some letters from an Iberian Jewish scholar to the Khagan, one of the few first hand accounts of them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khazar_C orrespondence
It's also a pretty epic bromance.
 
2014-03-03 07:59:51 PM
yeah, Crimea has been a coveted warm water port for a long time.  A series of maps showing 3 events with it over 500 years was a waste of time.
 
Biv
2014-03-03 08:48:34 PM
a5.img.talkingpointsmemo.com

Fail.  I don't see Grantville anywhere.
 
2014-03-04 02:46:32 AM
The maps listed as 1800, 1850, and 1900 appear to be wrong - they show the western Ukraine as being part of the Russian Empire, when in fact after the first Partition of Poland (1772) the majority of the western Ukraine became the Austro-Hungarian province of Galicia.  It was only after 1917 that the area fell under Russian/Soviet domination (well, technically 1919 - there was a short-lived independent Ukrainian republic following the fall of the Tsar, but it was crushed by the Red Army).

My mother's family comes from that region (the province of Ternopil).  This area was definitely under Polish control and shows up in maps of Polish territory (either directly under the Polish crown via inter-marriage with local Ukrainian nobility, or under Polish "management" when Poland was absorbed into the Austro-Hungarian Empire).
 
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