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(Independent)   New scientific studies confirm the devastating effects of climate change   (independent.co.uk) divider line 79
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3732 clicks; posted to Geek » on 03 Mar 2014 at 9:49 AM (32 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-03 09:07:58 AM  
It couldn't possibly have been man-made climate change, subs. This article proves that climate change is just something that happens.
Humans don't influence it at all. We should totally keep using fossil fuels. And polluting the environment. And fracking! God I love fracking!
 
2014-03-03 09:36:49 AM  
Well, guess those ancient civilizations learned THEIR lessons about buying hay-guzzling horse-drawn SUVs and shiat...
 
2014-03-03 09:55:44 AM  
1. Prove climate change is bad.

2. Prove we are causing it.


The derps still don't agree with #1, it will be forever before we can get them on board with #2.
 
2014-03-03 10:06:08 AM  
Notice how it is called "Climate Change" which is a neutral term.  Not all climate change is bad.  If you have beach front property you are probably screwed, but those farmers in Canada are laughing all the way to the bank with their longer growing season.
 
2014-03-03 10:09:25 AM  

Via Infinito: And fracking! God I love fracking!


Me too.  As I get older though I'm finding that I can only do it 2 or 3 times a night.  She doesn't seem to mind usually....

...wait, that's what you meant right?
 
2014-03-03 10:37:12 AM  

nocturnal001: 1. Prove climate change is bad.

2. Prove we are causing it.


The derps still don't agree with #1, it will be forever before we can get them on board with #2.


But that is because if it is not possible to do 1, then 2, doesn`t matter.

Instead people are trying to say that because of 2, then that proves 1, which is very bad logic.

Anyway, TFA must be false because the current change is unprecedented.
 
2014-03-03 10:37:42 AM  
I'll settle for convincing people it is happening, but we can predict it an prepare for it. Whether or not we are causing it is fast becoming irrelevant.
 
2014-03-03 10:38:05 AM  
We've got about four inches of climate change today in northern Va, and it's only half-way through.  That's after the ten inches of climate change we had a couple weeks ago.  And a few inches more before that.  I think I've now had at least a full work week of climate change days off, and that's not including all the single digit temperature days.

Going through some old pictures, it looks like we may have had less total climate change to shovel back in 2010 (but it all seemed to come at once), and much less in 2009.  It's actually kinda nice, since I feel like there hadn't been enough climate change to play in since I got out of college.  I'm not a fan of the stuff that brings down the power lines though.  Don't have natural gas, so if I lose power I won't be able to stop climate change in my house.
 
2014-03-03 10:42:16 AM  

Via Infinito: This article proves that climate change is just something that happens.


So, if someone were to shoot you, it wouldn't be murder because death is just something that happens.
 
2014-03-03 10:43:28 AM  

nocturnal001: 1. Prove climate change is bad.

2. Prove we are causing it.


The derps still don't agree with #1, it will be forever before we can get them on board with #2.


You can't reason a man out of a position he didn't reason himself into.
 
2014-03-03 11:05:48 AM  

yakmans_dad: Via Infinito: This article proves that climate change is just something that happens.

So, if someone were to shoot you, it wouldn't be murder because death is just something that happens.


notsureifpotato.jpg
 
2014-03-03 11:17:18 AM  

Via Infinito: yakmans_dad: Via Infinito: This article proves that climate change is just something that happens.

So, if someone were to shoot you, it wouldn't be murder because death is just something that happens.

notsureifpotato.jpg


No, it's a pretty reasonable way to describe it.  Denier shot in the back:  "Ugh, it could just be a gun going off on it's own, no reason to go to the hospital."
 
2014-03-03 11:25:34 AM  

Via Infinito: yakmans_dad: Via Infinito: This article proves that climate change is just something that happens.

So, if someone were to shoot you, it wouldn't be murder because death is just something that happens.

notsureifpotato.jpg


You might want to rethink your logic. You might have been asserting just a wee bit more than you could prove. Does that help?
 
2014-03-03 11:27:03 AM  

Via Infinito: *snip* And fracking! God I love fracking!


You must be thinking of...
i.imgur.com

But seriously folks, in order to credibly establish climate change we have to look at when it has occurred in all measurable instances. This is a piece of the puzzle even if it is not obvious to some people why it matters to today's problems. We need to keep hammering away at people who don't believe that we are causing some this change. It helps when we can point to things and say "this is what happens."
 
2014-03-03 11:29:00 AM  

yakmans_dad: Via Infinito: yakmans_dad: Via Infinito: This article proves that climate change is just something that happens.

So, if someone were to shoot you, it wouldn't be murder because death is just something that happens.

notsureifpotato.jpg

You might want to rethink your logic. You might have been asserting just a wee bit more than you could prove. Does that help?


You might want to fix your sarcasm detector. It's broken. Re-read my original comment. The whole thing. Not just the one sentence that you quoted.
 
2014-03-03 11:34:11 AM  

Via Infinito: yakmans_dad: Via Infinito: yakmans_dad: Via Infinito: This article proves that climate change is just something that happens.

So, if someone were to shoot you, it wouldn't be murder because death is just something that happens.

notsureifpotato.jpg

You might want to rethink your logic. You might have been asserting just a wee bit more than you could prove. Does that help?

You might want to fix your sarcasm detector. It's broken. Re-read my original comment. The whole thing. Not just the one sentence that you quoted.


You still use sarcasm on the net? Why?
 
2014-03-03 11:48:14 AM  

Prussian_Roulette: We've got about four inches of climate change today in northern Va, and it's only half-way through.  That's after the ten inches of climate change we had a couple weeks ago.  And a few inches more before that.  I think I've now had at least a full work week of climate change days off, and that's not including all the single digit temperature days.

Going through some old pictures, it looks like we may have had less total climate change to shovel back in 2010 (but it all seemed to come at once), and much less in 2009.  It's actually kinda nice, since I feel like there hadn't been enough climate change to play in since I got out of college.  I'm not a fan of the stuff that brings down the power lines though.  Don't have natural gas, so if I lose power I won't be able to stop climate change in my house.


You may want to increase your sample size and learn the difference between weather and climate then expand your reach to beyond your backyard when discussing a global issue.

Then we will get back to you.
 
2014-03-03 11:54:23 AM  
Tea baggers and deniers, it's always the tea baggers and the deniers.
 
2014-03-03 11:58:39 AM  

nocturnal001: 1. Prove climate change is bad.


It's the end of the world as we know it... but I feel fine.
 
2014-03-03 12:02:37 PM  

texanjeff: You may want to increase your sample size and learn the difference between weather and climate then expand your reach to beyond your backyard when discussing a global issue.

Then we will get back to you.


They have made it clear that they don't want to do this, ever.
 
2014-03-03 12:19:24 PM  

dready zim: Instead people are trying to say that because of 2, then that proves 1, which is very bad logic.


Who is saying that?  The two main arguments that I hear from actual people and not from strawmen are:

1. Rapid climate change is bad because infrastructure and populations are relatively immobile.  The fact that a 100 foot sea level rise might create a great place to build a city isn't as helpful when you consider that we already built New York City where it is and it would be a pain in the ass to move it.

2. Increases in global temperature in particular are bad because higher energy climate systems are less stable.
 
2014-03-03 12:51:04 PM  
Why would I trust a report about the demise of civilization if they can't even spell it correctly in their headline.  "civilisations"
 
2014-03-03 12:56:00 PM  

Trebuchet-Farker: Why would I trust a report about the demise of civilization if they can't even spell it correctly in their headline.  "civilisations"


Because the researchers aren't some random farker whose headline you don't like?
 
2014-03-03 02:13:49 PM  
Via Infinito, did you take a nice cold shower this morning from water you bucketed up from the creek? How were those raw carrots and potatoes you had for breakfast? Did you sleep in your tee-pee under your deer skin blanket?
 
2014-03-03 02:40:00 PM  

nocturnal001: 1. Prove climate change is bad.

2. Prove we are causing it.


The derps still don't agree with #1, it will be forever before we can get them on board with #2.


Depoliticize it, and you'll get them on board.
 
2014-03-03 02:43:46 PM  

meat0918: nocturnal001: 1. Prove climate change is bad.

2. Prove we are causing it.


The derps still don't agree with #1, it will be forever before we can get them on board with #2.

Depoliticize it, and you'll get them on board.


Wouldn't it just be easier to square the circle?
 
2014-03-03 02:46:39 PM  

meat0918: Depoliticize it, and you'll get them on board.


They politicized it in the first place.  Christ.  Befolre the derp train arrived it was "here's a slowly developing environmental issue, here are ways to deal with it"
 
2014-03-03 02:59:57 PM  

ikanreed: meat0918: Depoliticize it, and you'll get them on board.

They politicized it in the first place.  Christ.  Befolre the derp train arrived it was "here's a slowly developing environmental issue, here are ways to deal with it"


I know.

I'm just thinking back to a story from last year about Oklahoma or Kansas, and there was some success convincing them into using greener technology and conserving energy and therefore lowering carbon emissions by appealing to the desire to either save or make money.

Also, look at Kynect in Kentucky.  You had people saying "I hope this alternative to Obamacare works"...

The opposition is because they are for it, we must be against it, and it really has nothing to do with Obama, just the fact that Democrats are for it.
 
2014-03-03 03:01:01 PM  
Dallas has been doing a manic-depressive weather thing this winter. We'll go from 80F to freezing rain and 14F and get an ice glaze. Yesterday was the third time this winter, but the lithium seems to have calmed it out.
 
2014-03-03 03:13:28 PM  

Prussian_Roulette: We've got about four inches of climate change today in northern Va, and it's only half-way through.  That's after the ten inches of climate change we had a couple weeks ago.  And a few inches more before that.  I think I've now had at least a full work week of climate change days off, and that's not including all the single digit temperature days.

Going through some old pictures, it looks like we may have had less total climate change to shovel back in 2010 (but it all seemed to come at once), and much less in 2009.  It's actually kinda nice, since I feel like there hadn't been enough climate change to play in since I got out of college.  I'm not a fan of the stuff that brings down the power lines though.  Don't have natural gas, so if I lose power I won't be able to stop climate change in my house.


www.ncdc.noaa.gov

To use your logic, my backyard is currently 64 degF, so clearly you must be lying.
 
2014-03-03 03:15:11 PM  

nocturnal001: 1. Prove climate change is bad.

2. Prove we are causing it.


The derps still don't agree with #1, it will be forever before we can get them on board with #2.


Looking for a little warming today.  A few more degrees and this joint ought to be habitable.  Presumably as it gets warmer, it will get wetter and we'll have more arable land.
 
2014-03-03 03:20:58 PM  

Prussian_Roulette: We've got about four inches of climate change today in northern Va, and it's only half-way through.  That's after the ten inches of climate change we had a couple weeks ago.  And a few inches more before that.  I think I've now had at least a full work week of climate change days off, and that's not including all the single digit temperature days.

Going through some old pictures, it looks like we may have had less total climate change to shovel back in 2010 (but it all seemed to come at once), and much less in 2009.  It's actually kinda nice, since I feel like there hadn't been enough climate change to play in since I got out of college.  I'm not a fan of the stuff that brings down the power lines though.  Don't have natural gas, so if I lose power I won't be able to stop climate change in my house.


You should thank the Dakotas.  They are sending it your way.

http://www.argusleader.com/viewart/20140303/UPDATES/303030036/Weeken d- cold-breaks-records-across-Dakotas

/ridiculous winter is ridiculous.
//can't wait for later in March when the air warms enough to create some massive prairie snowstorms.
 
2014-03-03 03:46:11 PM  

meat0918: ikanreed: meat0918: Depoliticize it, and you'll get them on board.

They politicized it in the first place.  Christ.  Befolre the derp train arrived it was "here's a slowly developing environmental issue, here are ways to deal with it"

I know.

I'm just thinking back to a story from last year about Oklahoma or Kansas, and there was some success convincing them into using greener technology and conserving energy and therefore lowering carbon emissions by appealing to the desire to either save or make money.

Also, look at Kynect in Kentucky.  You had people saying "I hope this alternative to Obamacare works"...

The opposition is because they are for it, we must be against it, and it really has nothing to do with Obama, just the fact that Democrats are for it.



I wouldn't hold my breath on that one. Red states are losing hundreds of millions of dollars by blocking the medicare expansion.

Principle is worth a lot of money to many conservatives.
 
2014-03-03 03:50:33 PM  
shiat Harappans.
 
2014-03-03 04:01:25 PM  

Shakin_Haitian: Prussian_Roulette: We've got about four inches of climate change today in northern Va, and it's only half-way through.  That's after the ten inches of climate change we had a couple weeks ago.  And a few inches more before that.  I think I've now had at least a full work week of climate change days off, and that's not including all the single digit temperature days.

Going through some old pictures, it looks like we may have had less total climate change to shovel back in 2010 (but it all seemed to come at once), and much less in 2009.  It's actually kinda nice, since I feel like there hadn't been enough climate change to play in since I got out of college.  I'm not a fan of the stuff that brings down the power lines though.  Don't have natural gas, so if I lose power I won't be able to stop climate change in my house.

img.fark.net

To use your logic, my backyard is currently 64 degF, so clearly you must be lying.


Oh, someone mentioned this graphic! I hadn't seen it yet. Apparently the graphic represents the comparison to the 20th Century Average.  Very valid.

More related to current climate is this one, done from Jan1 to Feb 20 and compares to the 1981-2010 average with the average coming from NCEP.

i.imgur.com
Not really a comment on the thread so much as I actually wanted to see these images side by side.
 
2014-03-03 04:10:29 PM  

nocturnal001: 1. Prove climate change is bad.

2. Prove we are causing it.


The derps still don't agree with #1, it will be forever before we can get them on board with #2.


1. A long time ago the Sahara desert used to be a tropical paradise. It probably will be again at some point in the future. In the meantime, enjoy your sand.

2. We cut down trees and put up parking lots. We do that a lot. Just gotta do the math on that to see it's going to alter the balance.

People are blind and often can't see what's right in front of them.
 
2014-03-03 04:25:25 PM  

nocturnal001: 1. Prove climate change is bad.

2. Prove we are causing it.


The derps still don't agree with #1, it will be forever before we can get them on board with #2.


that's because "the sky is falling" liberals are trying to push "we need to reverse it NOW!"

So, when you stop that, maybe more people will get on board with #1
 
2014-03-03 04:26:38 PM  
Until the libtards' propaganda machine chugs out "oh noez, it's worse than we thought" accompanied by "we need to enact policies that curb population growth", I just don't take it seriously AT ALL.
 
2014-03-03 04:31:51 PM  

MBrady: that's because "the sky is falling" liberals are trying to push "we need to reverse it NOW!"


Yeah, no.  People asking for action are asking to begin processes limit the net change to 5C(which is perceived to be potentially disastrous, economically), you goddamn liar.
 
2014-03-03 04:32:47 PM  

SevenizGud: Until the libtards' propaganda machine chugs out "oh noez, it's worse than we thought" accompanied by "we need to enact policies that curb population growth", I just don't take it seriously AT ALL.


Yeah, that would be a fantastic plan, because derpers aren't already saying that Algore likes to eat babies.
 
2014-03-03 04:56:05 PM  
Those civilizations failed.

No trucks, planes, or other technology to deliver aid.  It may happen again, but it's possible that we can overcome such a change now.  We survived the '30s.

*shrugs*
 
2014-03-03 05:17:49 PM  

omeganuepsilon: Those civilizations failed.

No trucks, planes, or other technology to deliver aid.  It may happen again, but it's possible that we can overcome such a change now.  We survived the '30s.

*shrugs*


What would happen if the American mid-west turned into another dustbowl this time because of drought due to changing climate conditions? What if another part of America became more suitable to farming instead?

America would have to make radical changes to accommodate that, turning current communities into farmland and displacing a great number of people. That's not something people will embrace willingly. Change will be slow. In the meantime famine sets in. We'd survive but that kind of upheaval would be devastating even with all our technology.
 
2014-03-03 05:21:37 PM  

yakmans_dad: Via Infinito: This article proves that climate change is just something that happens.

So, if someone were to shoot you, it wouldn't be murder because death is just something that happens.


That would be death by bad analogy.
 
2014-03-03 05:28:17 PM  

MechaPyx: omeganuepsilon: Those civilizations failed.

No trucks, planes, or other technology to deliver aid.  It may happen again, but it's possible that we can overcome such a change now.  We survived the '30s.

*shrugs*

What would happen if the American mid-west turned into another dustbowl this time because of drought due to changing climate conditions? What if another part of America became more suitable to farming instead?

America would have to make radical changes to accommodate that, turning current communities into farmland and displacing a great number of people. That's not something people will embrace willingly. Change will be slow. In the meantime famine sets in. We'd survive but that kind of upheaval would be devastating even with all our technology.


Meh, maybe we could do with shaking up the status quo.  A disaster, sure, but if we build something better from the leftovers...It may still take less effort than changing what we're doing as-is.

/let the world burn
//may be the only chance at improving it
 
2014-03-03 05:33:45 PM  
MBrady: derdpderpdeprpderrrppppderpppderpppdpeprppderp

Well, THAT was a well thought out argument that wasn't full of crap.
 
2014-03-03 05:39:15 PM  

MechaPyx: omeganuepsilon: Those civilizations failed.

No trucks, planes, or other technology to deliver aid.  It may happen again, but it's possible that we can overcome such a change now.  We survived the '30s.

*shrugs*

What would happen if the American mid-west turned into another dustbowl this time because of drought due to changing climate conditions? What if another part of America became more suitable to farming instead?

America would have to make radical changes to accommodate that, turning current communities into farmland and displacing a great number of people. That's not something people will embrace willingly. Change will be slow. In the meantime famine sets in. We'd survive but that kind of upheaval would be devastating even with all our technology.


Keep in mind crop yields were much lower back then, and we export a hell of a lot of food.

We'd survive, but a lot of the places we send food to would be hurting more than us.

I live somewhere predicted by some to fair this change a little better than other places.  We are predicted to become warmer and wetter, not a lot, but enough that we'll lose our choice conditions for Pinot Noir grapes and have to switch to Syrah.

We also grow a lot of lawn grass seed still in the valley, and if the predictions hold, we'd have to switch to wheat.

Of course, if our grass is greener, more people will move here, eating up the agricultural land and straining water resources.

//Que Syrah(sic) indeed
 
2014-03-03 07:40:41 PM  

MechaPyx: omeganuepsilon: Those civilizations failed.

No trucks, planes, or other technology to deliver aid.  It may happen again, but it's possible that we can overcome such a change now.  We survived the '30s.

*shrugs*

What would happen if the American mid-west turned into another dustbowl this time because of drought due to changing climate conditions? What if another part of America became more suitable to farming instead?

America would have to make radical changes to accommodate that, turning current communities into farmland and displacing a great number of people. That's not something people will embrace willingly. Change will be slow. In the meantime famine sets in. We'd survive but that kind of upheaval would be devastating even with all our technology.



That is a HUGE if also. Temperature and rainfall aren't enough. If the new temperate (wheat/corn) zone moved to the badlands, then we would be SOL. What if those areas were already covered by cities, lakes, or forests?

I don't think anyone posted this.

encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com
 
2014-03-03 08:13:59 PM  
nocturnal001:

I don't think anyone posted this.

[encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com image 275x183]


As a planet, we already have famine and suffering aplenty, crime problems, war, poor education etc.   If it is a hoax, are we really making the world better?  Not really.  If that were the case, we'd be wasting resources and letting those other problems go.

The pic is tossed about a lot, but really not very apt.  Like so many "arguments", for or against global warming, or any political tab thread for that matter, it's taking an absurdly small amount of information and trying to twist it.  Really, it's just another twisted fallacy, not some incontrovertible wisdom.
 
2014-03-03 08:45:41 PM  

MBrady: nocturnal001: 1. Prove climate change is bad.

2. Prove we are causing it.


The derps still don't agree with #1, it will be forever before we can get them on board with #2.

that's because "the sky is falling" liberals are trying to push "we need to reverse it NOW!"

So, when you stop that, maybe more people will get on board with #1


1) Maybe, but probably not. (c.f. the parable of Lazarus and Dives. "They have Moses and the Prophets ... etc ")

2) Why not reverse it now? Climate has tremendous inertia. Look at temp and CO2 graphs for the last 600.000 years. When Milankovich forcings bring about the end of glacial advance temps jump enormously and, geologically, immediately. We've already gone well past peak CO2 for the last 600,000 years and the energy from CO2 is an order of magnitude larger than Milankovich forcings.

3) If your hurt feelings and intellectual vanity matter more than civilization, you're a monster.
 
2014-03-03 09:13:48 PM  
omeganuepsilon: ...If it is a hoax, are we really making the world better?...

Yes.. and thus you've missed the point of the image.   Even if climate change  was a hoax, we would still need to do most of the things on that list for other reasons.  That's what the whole "better world" comment from the audience member is about.  It's the punchline.  Get it yet?

Of course, the people that don't believe that climate change is occurring are often the same people that don't think that pollution and deforestation are bad things.. so whatever.
 
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