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(The Big Story)   California Uber Alles: Jerry Brown said he is not sure legalizing marijuana is a good idea in his state because the country could lose its competitive edge if too many people are getting stoned   (bigstory.ap.org) divider line 140
    More: Spiffy, Governor of California, marijuana, idea  
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2351 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Mar 2014 at 6:22 AM (24 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-03 09:33:09 AM
I know Mr Brown is nothing but a hired shill employed to say and do whatever he is told to say and do.
But, seriously, you 1% farks have got to get him better material.
 
2014-03-03 09:37:39 AM

EyeballKid: TV's Vinnie: The cocaine cartels would be pissed of pot became legal.

Not nearly as much as the pharma cartel. What's that, you don't want to pay an arm and a leg, but need something to encourage eating, or for your vision, or for chronic pain, or for your "social anxiety?"


IMO, in states where pot is legal, any penalty for making/using meth should be doubled. Society's way of saying "You got all this legal pot and yet you chose to prefer this?"

And don't get me started on those dumbasses that use Krokodil.
 
2014-03-03 09:40:38 AM

TV's Vinnie: EyeballKid: TV's Vinnie: The cocaine cartels would be pissed of pot became legal.

Not nearly as much as the pharma cartel. What's that, you don't want to pay an arm and a leg, but need something to encourage eating, or for your vision, or for chronic pain, or for your "social anxiety?"

IMO, in states where pot is legal, any penalty for making/using meth should be doubled. Society's way of saying "You got all this legal pot and yet you chose to prefer this?"

And don't get me started on those dumbasses that use Krokodil.


Absolutely clueless, eh?
 
2014-03-03 09:50:08 AM

PawisBetlog: MayoSlather: PawisBetlog: MayoSlather: Sgygus: The state exists for the good of the individual in these here United States, not the other way around.  You are speaking like a fascist, Governor Brown.

This seems to be lost politicians and big business. The population exists only as a pool of resources to them, and the idea people may not want to participate in their machine scares them. Marijuana poses no real threat in this regard, but it's funny how they squirm at the idea it might.

Furthermore, personal liberty should always trump what government believes is best for us, as it relates to our own personal choices and the risks we willingly expose ourselves to.

Until it potentially has a negative impact on your fellow man, then there needs to be a collective discussion and decision about it because we are a society, not a landmass with 300 million individual states.

If your exposing yourself to risks by extension exposes ME to risks, don't you think I should have some say in the matter? If not why not?

There are no risks to which you're being exposed. No one here is condoning driving under the influence, which is the risk I assume you are referencing.

Responsible driving is a separate issue from someone's right to consume a drug, as there is nothing in marijuana that compels someone to get in a car and drive. It's just like any other prescription drug, alcohol, drowsy or distracted driving; they all fall under driving responsibly.

If there is another risk you're being exposed to when some guy gets high, eats doritos, and has great sex then I'd love to hear it.

I was responding to the personal liberty trumps government control comment, not the advantage or disadvantage of legalized pot.

Personally I support legalization even though I no longer partake.


Oh, well I agree with you then in general if my liberty has real world implications on your personal freedom/safety/ability to sustainably live then that's where my personal liberty ends.
 
2014-03-03 09:55:56 AM

TwistedFark: Notabunny: I don't think Brown is the least bit disingenuous or insincere. My guess is that he'll watch Colorado and Washington for a couple of years before taking a firm policy position.

I agree.

However, no matter how rational someone tries to act, there will always be some knee-jerk ideologues that find exercising common sense to be anathema.

Since someone else (or in this case, 2 someone else's) have already legalized pot, it makes a hell of a lot of sense to see what goes down with them and then try to either do the same, or better.

Anyway, this is pretty typical for Jerry Brown. He's been labelled with the "moonbat" moniker for years (oddly enough for suggesting that California launch it's own communications satellites, which of course, it did years later). The man is nothing if not pragmatic. I think you can be liberal socially and believe in providing basic human rights and needs for citizens and basically be conservative in how you go about doing this. Difficulty: americans have to re-learn the meaning of the word conservative.

Think of it this way, he's using the scientific method and collecting empirical evidence before issuing another experiment. I think this is a smart thing to do.


I think it's just another carefully crafted political statement. I.E., bullshiat. The first states that legalize weed will all be through the initiative process. No politician currently has the balls to actually advocate for legalization. Eventually, something like the 10th or 15th state to do it will be via legislature. My guess is Illinois or Iowa, and well after the hype has died down from CO and WA.

Brown knows the political climate isn't right to be honest about legalization. Not genius, just political savvy.
 
2014-03-03 09:56:52 AM
Yes, we should legislate based on stereotypes, because that always works.

I don't smoke pot, but I am a legalization advocate. Whenever I make points in conversation about legalizing marijuana, the main counter-arguments people bring up are anecdotal in nature about some loser relative of theirs who gets high and does nothing else. And they'll use the language "it messed his life up."

No it didn't. HE messed his life up, and if it hadn't been weed, it might have been beer, fast food, or the casino. There are plenty of people who are happy and productive and they smoke pot.
 
2014-03-03 09:59:36 AM
I live in California and have anxiety issues so I'm getting a kick...

/and a panic attack
 
2014-03-03 10:52:11 AM

snocone: I know Mr Brown is nothing but a hired shill employed to say and do whatever he is told to say and do.
But, seriously, you 1% farks have got to get him better material.


That is the best they have. You can only come up with so many excuses before they start to run out. 80 some odd years of lies and what ifs eats up all the good material then they scrape the bottom of the barrel looking for more reasons to not legalize pot. Like I have said before the anti-pot crowd are making pot heads look like Einstein.
 
2014-03-03 11:10:16 AM
Destructor:

I've read that you can get addicted to pot... But that was the end of the story... Really? What are withdrawals from that like?

Immediately stop over eating and drop 5% of body weight, feel slightly annoyed/on edge for a couple of days, get a couple nights of sub-par sleep.  Or so I've heard...
 
2014-03-03 11:22:43 AM

GnomePaladin: Destructor:

I've read that you can get addicted to pot... But that was the end of the story... Really? What are withdrawals from that like?

Immediately stop over eating and drop 5% of body weight, feel slightly annoyed/on edge for a couple of days, get a couple nights of sub-par sleep.  Or so I've heard...


Not to trivialize it (all suffering sucks): Sounds easier to manage then Nicotine withdrawal...
 
2014-03-03 11:30:24 AM

Destructor: GnomePaladin: Destructor:

I've read that you can get addicted to pot... But that was the end of the story... Really? What are withdrawals from that like?

Immediately stop over eating and drop 5% of body weight, feel slightly annoyed/on edge for a couple of days, get a couple nights of sub-par sleep.  Or so I've heard...

Not to trivialize it (all suffering sucks): Sounds easier to manage then Nicotine withdrawal...


Feel free to trivialize pot withdrawal, since it is indeed trivial.
 
2014-03-03 11:47:27 AM

GanjSmokr: Feel free to trivialize pot withdrawal, since it is indeed trivial


Can't. Depends on the individual and underlying psychiatric factors. Merely watching someone go through heroin withdrawal was horrifying... Seriously: I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemies. I'm quite afraid to trivialize any form of human suffering... You never know how bad it is if you can't see inside their head.

/Sigh... Should still legalize heroin.
//But you shouldn't take it.
 
2014-03-03 12:04:24 PM

Destructor: GanjSmokr: Feel free to trivialize pot withdrawal, since it is indeed trivial

Can't. Depends on the individual and underlying psychiatric factors. Merely watching someone go through heroin withdrawal was horrifying... Seriously: I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemies. I'm quite afraid to trivialize any form of human suffering... You never know how bad it is if you can't see inside their head.

/Sigh... Should still legalize heroin.
//But you shouldn't take it.


Yea, I wouldn't trivialize something that people have actual physical withdrawal symptoms from (heroin, nicotine, alcohol, crack, most pharmaceuticals).

Pot doesn't fall in that category though.
 
2014-03-03 12:11:02 PM

Destructor: GanjSmokr: Feel free to trivialize pot withdrawal, since it is indeed trivial

Can't. Depends on the individual and underlying psychiatric factors. Merely watching someone go through heroin withdrawal was horrifying... Seriously: I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemies. I'm quite afraid to trivialize any form of human suffering... You never know how bad it is if you can't see inside their head.

/Sigh... Should still legalize heroin.
//But you shouldn't take it.


Evidently if you smoke weed everyday for years you can get some withdrawal symptoms like irritability and insomnia. Sounds similar to being a heavy coffee drinker for years and then quitting cold turkey.
 
2014-03-03 12:18:24 PM

MayoSlather: Destructor: GanjSmokr: Feel free to trivialize pot withdrawal, since it is indeed trivial

Can't. Depends on the individual and underlying psychiatric factors. Merely watching someone go through heroin withdrawal was horrifying... Seriously: I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemies. I'm quite afraid to trivialize any form of human suffering... You never know how bad it is if you can't see inside their head.

/Sigh... Should still legalize heroin.
//But you shouldn't take it.

Evidently if you smoke weed everyday for years you can get some withdrawal symptoms like irritability and insomnia. Sounds similar to being a heavy coffee drinker for years and then quitting cold turkey.


Being a little grumpy and losing a little sleep are trivial "withdrawal symptoms".
 
2014-03-03 12:27:28 PM

GanjSmokr: MayoSlather: Destructor: GanjSmokr: Feel free to trivialize pot withdrawal, since it is indeed trivial

Can't. Depends on the individual and underlying psychiatric factors. Merely watching someone go through heroin withdrawal was horrifying... Seriously: I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemies. I'm quite afraid to trivialize any form of human suffering... You never know how bad it is if you can't see inside their head.

/Sigh... Should still legalize heroin.
//But you shouldn't take it.

Evidently if you smoke weed everyday for years you can get some withdrawal symptoms like irritability and insomnia. Sounds similar to being a heavy coffee drinker for years and then quitting cold turkey.

Being a little grumpy and losing a little sleep are trivial "withdrawal symptoms".


Yeah, in the comments section on an article about marijuana withdrawal, some people claimed they felt nauseous, one guy even said he actually threw up. A few said they had no symptoms after years of use. Still, pretty mild, especially considering the frequency of use they were claiming.
 
2014-03-03 12:47:09 PM

mbillips: simkatu: shift_DAWG: When Washington's and Colorado's tourism numbers are crunched (I think a LOT of people will forego Amsterdam and Jamaica for the closer-to-home legal w33d), a LOT of states will put this issue to ballot.

Americans can not legally purchase mj in Amsterdam or Jamaica. It's freely available in every American city I have been to though in the last 25 years.

Where do you dopers get the pot when you visit a strange city? Just go to the 'hood and look for street dealers? That seems a good way to get mugged/caught in a drug buy sting. Or maybe "freely available" means something different.


Craiglist... seriously...

Go to the hood and look for street dealers?  You watch too much TV...
 
2014-03-03 12:52:28 PM
TwistedFark:   I don't think the lethality (non-lethality?) of it is in question. What I am merely pointing out is that just re-writing a law isn't enough to guarantee a positive outcome. I think you get that. I wish other people did.

Re-writing the law expands our personal freedom.  That is a positive outcome.
 
2014-03-03 01:01:24 PM

PawisBetlog: If your exposing yourself to risks by extension exposes ME to risks, don't you think I should have some say in the matter? If not why not?


How much risk does there need to be before you think you should have a say?  When you drive your car, you expose every other person on the road, or sidewalk, to risk of an accident.  Should I have a say so on how/when/if you should drive? 

Also, please explain to me how someone getting high and watching TV exposes you to risk...
 
2014-03-03 01:08:14 PM

borg: Brown is an out of touch moron who will sadly be reelected to a 4th term as governor. I'd rather see Gavin Newsome in that office.


Newsom disgusts me. Brown is an extremely focused, practical governor, with a long-term view that prioritizes infrastructure and a perpetually balanced budget. Newsom is a slimy cretin who conforms to every negative stereotype about politicians using their resources to pander to narrow interest groups, with no priorities or beliefs of his own. Come 2018, I don't care who's running against Newsom, they've got my vote.
 
2014-03-03 01:11:12 PM

jso2897: Well, he's an old school progressive, and has some backward notions. He's part of a political generation that is dying off as surely as the Teabaggers are.


I assume it has something to do with his Jesuit education.
 
2014-03-03 01:22:22 PM
If its Brown, flush it.
 
2014-03-03 02:00:20 PM

GanjSmokr: Destructor: GnomePaladin: Destructor:

I've read that you can get addicted to pot... But that was the end of the story... Really? What are withdrawals from that like?

Immediately stop over eating and drop 5% of body weight, feel slightly annoyed/on edge for a couple of days, get a couple nights of sub-par sleep.  Or so I've heard...

Not to trivialize it (all suffering sucks): Sounds easier to manage then Nicotine withdrawal...

Feel free to trivialize pot withdrawal, since it is indeed trivial.


In case it didn't come across in my post, this is what I was getting at.  Aside from "damn, wish I could smoke a little weed right now", it's practically nothing.

/forced to "quit" once or twice a year when I travel by air for any length of time
//always feel fine by day 3
 
2014-03-03 02:01:12 PM
TwistedFark:


Many people (myself included) can support the decriminalization of drugs but be wary about how that gets implemented. The fact that you view this concern as propaganda isn't Jerry Brown's fault, but merely a side effect of your own narrow thinking.

No.  When someone says something like "I think we need to stay alert, if not 24 hours a day, more than some of the potheads might be able to put together."  that's not wariness.  That's raw bigotry.  And rank stupidity.  It's as if he were campaigning for the re-enactment of Prohibition on the grounds that all the drunks might negatively affect our competitiveness in world markets.  Why doesn't he mention the terrible cultural and financial costs of the war on drugs as a reason to move way from that model as rapidly as possible?

Sure, there will be problems in implementing more rational policies.  That is no reason to cling to a form of irrationality that has so greatly harmed us as a nation.
 
2014-03-03 02:03:09 PM
SPLIFFY
 
2014-03-03 02:48:08 PM
This man is SERIOUSLY harshing my mellow

/and that's... not very productive, is it MR BROWN?
 
2014-03-03 03:45:30 PM
Seems about typical:

People are doing something he does not want them to do;

He seems to think he can stop them from doing it.

Delusions of control, as usual.
 
2014-03-03 04:00:00 PM

Dead for Tax Reasons: instead of california i guess i'll have to holiday in cambodia


Nice Dead Kennedys reference.
 
2014-03-03 04:00:57 PM

TwistedFark: There are many people out there who are habitual marijuana users who want specialized services and support to kick their habit and it's likely we are already underserving them -


Oh bullshiat.
 
2014-03-03 04:11:23 PM

GanjSmokr: Destructor: GnomePaladin: Destructor:

I've read that you can get addicted to pot... But that was the end of the story... Really? What are withdrawals from that like?

Immediately stop over eating and drop 5% of body weight, feel slightly annoyed/on edge for a couple of days, get a couple nights of sub-par sleep.  Or so I've heard...

Not to trivialize it (all suffering sucks): Sounds easier to manage then Nicotine withdrawal...

Feel free to trivialize pot withdrawal, since it is indeed trivial.


I was addicted to nicotine for 35 years, and the ONLY medicine I have ever found which knocks the edge off the cravings is hemp, about 250--500 mg, every 2--4 hours.  I am currently in recovery, 6984 days and counting.

I also smoked pot quite heavily from 1965--1970, off and on from 1970---1975, and once in a blue moon from 1975---1980.

If allowed an unlimited suopply, the user will slowly taper off over time.  I do not however recommend chronic daily use, that will lead to problems.  Once a week costs less, reduces side effects---and you get higher with a smaller amount.
 
2014-03-03 04:17:47 PM

olddinosaur: I also smoked pot quite heavily from 1965--1970, off and on from 1970---1975, and once in a blue moon from 1975---1980.

If allowed an unlimited suopply, the user will slowly taper off over time.  I do not however recommend chronic daily use, that will lead to problems.  Once a week costs less, reduces side effects---and you get higher with a smaller amount.


dude you haven't smoked pot since 1980. What the hell do you know about it now?
 
2014-03-03 04:22:37 PM

olddinosaur: GanjSmokr: Destructor: GnomePaladin: Destructor:

I've read that you can get addicted to pot... But that was the end of the story... Really? What are withdrawals from that like?

Immediately stop over eating and drop 5% of body weight, feel slightly annoyed/on edge for a couple of days, get a couple nights of sub-par sleep.  Or so I've heard...

Not to trivialize it (all suffering sucks): Sounds easier to manage then Nicotine withdrawal...

Feel free to trivialize pot withdrawal, since it is indeed trivial.

I was addicted to nicotine for 35 years, and the ONLY medicine I have ever found which knocks the edge off the cravings is hemp, about 250--500 mg, every 2--4 hours.  I am currently in recovery, 6984 days and counting.

I also smoked pot quite heavily from 1965--1970, off and on from 1970---1975, and once in a blue moon from 1975---1980.

If allowed an unlimited suopply, the user will slowly taper off over time.  I do not however recommend chronic daily use, that will lead to problems.  Once a week costs less, reduces side effects---and you get higher with a smaller amount.


i418.photobucket.com

..and what Whidbey said.
 
2014-03-03 09:51:47 PM
Any argument about legalization/prohibition of any drug is useless without a cost benefit analysis.  The intended effect of prohibition is to reduce or eliminate use of drugs.  But real world data shows that effect to be minimal at best.  There are also the side effects of giving the drugs over to the black market.  Not only more crime, but no guarantees of purity or strength.  This leads to overdoses and poisoning that wouldn't otherwise happen.  Then there are the designer drugs, "fake pot" that are far more dangerous than the real deal, and only exist as a workaround to prohibition.  And of course, the cost of running the prohibition program itself, and the productivity of everyone caught up in the criminal justice system.

The only way prohibition makes sense for any drug is if:
1. Prohibition reduces its use more than other methods like educational campaigns, rehab programs, etc.
2. By enough of a margin that the harm from the additional use of an accurately known pure dose outweighs all the costs and negative effects prohibition brings with it.

I doubt this is true for any drug, let alone pot.
 
2014-03-03 10:19:16 PM
I'll just put this here.

c.wrzuta.pl
 
2014-03-03 10:29:08 PM
Yet another reason to like Jerry Brown.  Folks like to joke about him with the "moonbeam" references but he is actually a pretty conservative guy for a demo.  Fiscally he is more conservative than most of the so called conservatives.  He happens to be right about the weed.  The last thing you want in a state known for its brains is to have all the young folks going out destroying their own brains.
 
2014-03-03 11:24:40 PM

Ima4nic8or: He happens to be right about the weed.  The last thing you want in a state known for its brains is to have all the young folks going out destroying their own brains.


Not sure if serious, snarking, or as ignorant and self-righteous as the governor in question.

That's a joke, right? .
 
2014-03-04 07:14:41 AM

CourtroomWolf: Any argument about legalization/prohibition of any drug is useless without a cost benefit analysis.


Only true if society is committed to the well-being of the user. (If the well-being of the user is to use drugs, then that's not necessarily so, is it?)

If a user wants to use a drug, and dies because of it... then that's that. Harsh? Hell yes. But the alternative is a war on drugs.

There are a wide array of reasons people use, or want to use drugs. Some may actually be legitimate, for them. Some may not be. The trouble is, if you really want to claim to be a free people, then you've got to let people be free to make their own mistakes. Hopefully, they'll live long enough to learn from them.

This is a terrible solution to a really big, bad problem. But, that is the price of freedom.
 
2014-03-04 08:14:40 AM

Ima4nic8or: He happens to be right about the weed. The last thing you want in a state known for its brains is to have all the young folks going out destroying their own brains.


How intact were those brains that elected a former bodybuilder to help its state's economy out? That state that, according to you, is known for its brains?
 
2014-03-04 09:28:39 AM

whidbey: Ima4nic8or: He happens to be right about the weed.  The last thing you want in a state known for its brains is to have all the young folks going out destroying their own brains.

Not sure if serious, snarking, or as ignorant and self-righteous as the governor in question.

That's a joke, right? .


The bolded part should have let you know for sure.
 
2014-03-04 01:02:25 PM

Ima4nic8or: Yet another reason to like Jerry Brown.  Folks like to joke about him with the "moonbeam" references but he is actually a pretty conservative guy for a demo.  Fiscally he is more conservative than most of the so called conservatives.  He happens to be right about the weed.  The last thing you want in a state known for its brains is to have all the young folks going out destroying their own brains.


yeah, wouldn't want any more steve jobs or bill gates..

puff puff puff.. compile.. puff puff puff...

vs

coffee coffee coffee.. bang intern.. coffee coffee coffee..  make up quarterly report out of thin air and last nights vodka...

but, you run with that.
 
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