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(ESPN)   Robinson Cano figures out what every M's fan has known since 2002   (espn.go.com) divider line 29
    More: Obvious, Robinson Cano, Michael Saunders, Ervin Santana, Dustin Ackley, switch hitter, Logan Morrison, Kendrys Morales, Ubaldo Jimenez  
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1967 clicks; posted to Sports » on 02 Mar 2014 at 9:38 PM (21 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



29 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-03-02 08:58:21 PM
Robinson Cano thinks that the Mariners will need more offensive punch.

MORE?
 
2014-03-02 09:49:23 PM
Enjoy a decade of asking for one more bat, Robbie.
 
2014-03-02 09:52:39 PM

mr_a: Robinson Cano thinks that the Mariners will need more offensive punch.


If not punch, at least a little juice.
 
2014-03-02 10:03:06 PM
That's fine, I'm sure they have enough money to do that. After all, it's not like there are any ridiculously-large salaries taking up payroll flexibility...
 
2014-03-02 10:03:12 PM

Demetrius: mr_a: Robinson Cano thinks that the Mariners will need more offensive punch.

If not punch, at least a little juice.


I've heard Adderall works wonders.
 
2014-03-02 10:28:22 PM
The Rangers could have had him for a few years however they took... Oh hell, I don't even remember that guys name

*sigh*
 
2014-03-02 10:34:29 PM
Check to see if any are roosting in the retractable roof, Robbie. That's about the only way you'll find one.
 
2014-03-02 10:50:58 PM

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: I've heard Adderall works wonders.


Yeah, just go across the street to the home locker room....plenty there.
 
2014-03-02 10:59:34 PM

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: Demetrius: mr_a: Robinson Cano thinks that the Mariners will need more offensive punch.

If not punch, at least a little juice.

I've heard Adderall works wonders.


I think you mean "Adderall"
 
2014-03-03 12:11:01 AM
We need: a scouting dept, minor league coaching, minor league talent evaluation, talent evaluation in general not 10 years out of date, a GM that didn't lie on his resume to get the job, and after all that .. we need a few bats.


Last year at my annual one game I attend, was walking around the perimeter of the outfield. Looked up at the left field flags. Noticed all of them were faded, torn, and hadn't been changed in 10 years.

Perfect metaphor for the front office.
 
2014-03-03 12:56:46 AM
You ARE the extra bat Robbie.
 
2014-03-03 02:18:43 AM
The Best AAA team in the AL West
 
2014-03-03 02:43:01 AM

zerkalo: The Best AAA team in the AL West


Then what are the Houston Astros?  The Best AA team in the AL West?
 
2014-03-03 04:25:33 AM
Tacoma should get promoted to MLB and Seattle should get relegated to AAA.  Results would be similar.
 
2014-03-03 04:29:56 AM
Morales doesn't really fit on the team. They already have Smoak, Logan Morrison, Corey Hart, and Montero competing for essentially 3 spots at 1B/RF/DH. What they really could use is an upgrade at SS, unless you really believe that Brad Miller will step up and be a legit leadoff guy. Stephen Drew is available...

Also, I find it somewhat funny with the Mariners. Their most highly touted prospects were Montero, Smoak and Ackley. All three of them have really struggled at various points. Ackley has been moved off of 2B, Montero was moved and might just be a bench player this year, Smoak struggled for the longest time. But a young guy that really did well for them was Seager, who had nowhere near the fanfare of any of those guys as a prospect.

/Also, if you find yourself in need of a SS, feel free to contact the Cleveland Indians about Asdrubal Cabrera, former all-star.
 
2014-03-03 07:11:50 AM

Peter von Nostrand: The Rangers could have had him for a few years however they took... Oh hell, I don't even remember that guys name

*sigh*


wait, you think the Rangers should have signed Cano?
 
2014-03-03 08:17:08 AM

Uncle Pooky: Peter von Nostrand: The Rangers could have had him for a few years however they took... Oh hell, I don't even remember that guys name

*sigh*

wait, you think the Rangers should have signed Cano?


No, when he was still in the minors the Rangers made a trade with the Yankees and he was one of the prospects they could have taken
 
2014-03-03 08:29:27 AM

Peter von Nostrand: Uncle Pooky: Peter von Nostrand: The Rangers could have had him for a few years however they took... Oh hell, I don't even remember that guys name

*sigh*

wait, you think the Rangers should have signed Cano?

No, when he was still in the minors the Rangers made a trade with the Yankees and he was one of the prospects they could have taken


Joaquín Árias
 
2014-03-03 08:30:47 AM

The Bestest: Peter von Nostrand: Uncle Pooky: Peter von Nostrand: The Rangers could have had him for a few years however they took... Oh hell, I don't even remember that guys name

*sigh*

wait, you think the Rangers should have signed Cano?

No, when he was still in the minors the Rangers made a trade with the Yankees and he was one of the prospects they could have taken

Joaquín Árias


Thank you. I thought it was him but wasn't sure
 
2014-03-03 08:34:18 AM

lacydog: Morales doesn't really fit on the team. They already have Smoak, Logan Morrison, Corey Hart, and Montero competing for essentially 3 spots at 1B/RF/DH.


1) Dustin Ackley was still a useful player when he hit .245/.315/.354 (career, remembering it's in Seattle) as a good defensive 2B.  Yeah, that's a #8 or #9 bat, but that guy has a place on a team.  But only on the Mariners would someone say "That guy looks like our Opening Day LF!"  He should be trade bait before people forget he can play 2B, because the Mariners are paying Cano so much that they basically have to trot him out to 2B even if his range ages to nothing.

2) Justin Smoak is a replacement-level 1B.  What little value he provides with hit bat he gives away with his glove and terrible baserunning.  You can be an ogre if you can hit 35 HR and 30 2B every year, hopefully getting on base at a reasonable clip.  You can't be an ogre that hits like a 4th outfielder.

3) Logan Morrison and Corey Hart might be good answers, assuming Hart's knee holds up.  They're not going to the All-Star game, but they're perfectly credible players.

4) Montero was terrible last year, but he's 24 and he hit in the minors for years.  I'd normally recommend plugging away with that guy, but he apparently is trying to fat himself out of baseball.  Aaaaand Biogenesis.  He might never play in the majors again.

Right now, Abraham Almonte is penciled in as a part-time DH/4thOF.  He's a non-prospect rookie, but it looks like he has a balanced offensive profile, and he runs well so he can come off the bench for that also.  He played CF in the minors, so he's probably got at least the defensive chops to play LF/RF in the majors.  But he's a rookie, so he also might hit .220 and hack at slop.

So you've got 4 soft defensive spots to fill (1B/LF/RF/DH), and maybe 2 guys I'd trust to be decent.  Given all that, Morales wouldn't be a terrible gamble if the price was right.  Also, it's hard to believe "right-handed bat with no defensive talent" would be hard to find if Morales is too expensive.  Someone must need a Dustin Ackley.
 
2014-03-03 09:33:55 AM
Robbie should buy himself protection in the clean-up spot...

Would that be allowed?
 
2014-03-03 09:39:29 AM
I hope Cano enjoys being the undisputed #1 guy on the roster in Seattle.

/And #2, and #3, and #4, and #5
 
2014-03-03 09:48:01 AM
Oh FFS Cano don't start this again.

The Mariners keep thinking they need, and overpaying for, big bats.  Slaveco Field is where big bats go to die, and that's an advantage if they'd stop treating it like a goddamn liability.

The 2001 team that won 116 games was the #1 offense in the MLB but nowhere near the top of the league in home runs.  They were speedy, high-OBP, foul-line-to-foul-line hitters with some decent power.  And that works perfectly with Safeco Field's spacious outfields.  If I was running Seattle I would underbid for power hitters and go after guys that are scholars of the strike zone.  Mike Cameron was known more for being a strikeout machine with a magnetic glove than a hitter, but look at the stats and he did pretty well at getting on base.  It kind of says something that the Mariners were staring at the perfect offense for them and over a decade later have yet to figure out why it worked.

Cano's got the kind of offensive balance that would succeed anywhere, but please don't tell the front office they need "another bat".  They'll sit on their hands or, even worse, spend $100 million on another Richie Sexson 2.0.
 
2014-03-03 12:10:52 PM

dragonchild: Oh FFS Cano don't start this again.

The Mariners keep thinking they need, and overpaying for, big bats.  Slaveco Field is where big bats go to die, and that's an advantage if they'd stop treating it like a goddamn liability.

The 2001 team that won 116 games was the #1 offense in the MLB but nowhere near the top of the league in home runs.  They were speedy, high-OBP, foul-line-to-foul-line hitters with some decent power.  And that works perfectly with Safeco Field's spacious outfields.  If I was running Seattle I would underbid for power hitters and go after guys that are scholars of the strike zone.  Mike Cameron was known more for being a strikeout machine with a magnetic glove than a hitter, but look at the stats and he did pretty well at getting on base.  It kind of says something that the Mariners were staring at the perfect offense for them and over a decade later have yet to figure out why it worked.

Cano's got the kind of offensive balance that would succeed anywhere, but please don't tell the front office they need "another bat".  They'll sit on their hands or, even worse, spend $100 million on another Richie Sexson 2.0.


I wonder what Cano thought he was getting into when he signed the deal. It's his role to be the designated marketable hitter, someone to go on the promotions with Felix Hernandez.

It's not like we've suddenly turned a corner and know how to evaluate minor league talent or are going to become a competitive force.
 
2014-03-03 02:26:20 PM
"You don't want to face a lefty pitcher with a lineup of seven left-handed hitters."

I'm not the biggest MLB or stats person, but I know teams/managers are constantly talking about which hand they need. How big of a percentage difference is there in ERA or BA or more meaningful stats between right- and left-handed pitchers/batters?

/I know there are certain farkers that I have favorited as "smart about baseball" or "stat lord" that deplore the above stats. If possible though, please use stats that don't require a doctorate to understand.
 
2014-03-03 02:50:53 PM
I'm just happy that I have season tickets to the Sounders...
 
2014-03-03 03:06:55 PM

skrame: How big of a percentage difference is there in ERA or BA or more meaningful stats between right- and left-handed pitchers/batters?


It depends on the hitter, pitching style, and hitting style.  There are exceptions to the CW.  Right-handed hitters actually hit slightly not-quite-as-crappy as lefties against the right-handed Mariano Rivera, for example, because his cutter would move from right-to-left (from Mo's POV).  Lefties had a tendency to contact the pitch with the narrow part of the bat.  The lefty-vs.-righty splits on Ichiro Suzuki are negligible (OPS .772 vs. .784) because the guy could hit anything in the strike zone but rarely harder than a single.

If you check splits for "conventional" pitchers and hitters, however, the difference can be statistically significant.  Poking around, I see a 0.020 difference in BA being typical.  It makes sense.  I've seen more dramatic differences (look up Jim Presley's splits if you don't want to get off my lawn) but these days you need to at least hold your own if you want a pro career.
 
2014-03-03 04:35:05 PM
Montero and Smoak were supposed to be a couple of big bats in the lineup by now.

Oops.
 
2014-03-03 08:57:41 PM

skrame: I'm not the biggest MLB or stats person, but I know teams/managers are constantly talking about which hand they need. How big of a percentage difference is there in ERA or BA or more meaningful stats between right- and left-handed pitchers/batters?


(ERA's not useful, because runs are often the result of multiple batters.)

2013 AL numbers (to avoid confusion from pitchers):
Same hand:
LHP to LHB: .246 AVG, .303 OBP, .372 SLG
RHP to RHB:.252 AVG, .310 OBP, .394 SLG

Opposite hand:
LHP to RHB: .261 AVG, .329 OBP, .413 SLG
RHP to LHB: .259 AVG, .328 OBP, .416 SLG

So the platoon effect is worth about 10 points of AVG, 23 points of OBP, and 31 points of SLG.  It's sharpest against LHB because they likely grew up rarely seeing left-handed pitching and don't compensate as well.  (Lefties are rare in the general population, but get increasingly valuable at higher levels of baseball.)

To put it another way:
Average same-side hitter (.249/.307/.383) in 2013 was closest to someone like Andrelton Simmons.  A lineup full of Andrelton Simmonses would score ~3.8 runs/game.

Average opposite-side hitter (.260/.329/.415) in 2013 was closest to someone like Anthony Rizzo.  A lineup full of Anthony Rizzos would score ~4.6 runs/game.

If the two teams played, you'd expect The All-Rizzos to win ~59% of the games, or ~96-66 over a full season.

So it's a pretty big effect, and Cano is right to worry about having seven lefties in a lineup.  MLB games are extremely evenly matched in the big picture (no team wins 80% of their games, unlike nearly any NBA/NFL/NHL season), so small advantages like the platoon effect are what makes the difference between playoff teams and also-rans.
 
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