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(PennLive)   "Sorry ma'am, you can't get unemployment because you quit your job because you didn't want to drive 35 miles to work. Deal with it"   (pennlive.com) divider line 81
    More: Dumbass, senior judge, sufficient reason  
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12289 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Mar 2014 at 6:44 PM (38 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2014-03-02 06:51:25 PM  
6 votes:

mbillips: Yup. You quit your job, no unemployment. You have to get laid off.



So refusing to be transferred 35 miles away is now "quitting"? Especially for a $11 an hour job?
2014-03-02 06:55:54 PM  
5 votes:

Bonzo_1116: A 35 mile commute for a job that pays $11.48/hr?

Brutal.


I spent a year driving an hour and ten minutes to and from work for $8.50 an hour ten years ago. I had an old car with no working heater or air conditioner but it was still preferable to going on welfare and food stamps. I had a family to take care of so I did what I had to do.

Long story short, I'm still working there but moved closer after a while and now work as a manager.

She should have at least given it a try. I learned to enjoy the quiet drive. She might have, too.

/or not
//agree she didn't qualify for unemployment
2014-03-02 06:51:25 PM  
5 votes:
A boss actually said to me "I will not lay you off, I will make you quit. There's no way I am paying unemployment for you"  And yes, he then proceeded to try everything to make me quit.  And I eventually did.  Although, three days later he called me and begged me to consult for him.

Yes, the American system is broken.
2014-03-02 06:49:00 PM  
5 votes:
A 35 mile commute for a job that pays $11.48/hr?

Brutal.
2014-03-02 08:38:53 PM  
3 votes:
Bill Bryson once postulated it would take 14 hours for a stone-age adult (14-30 y/o) male to hunt up enough meat to feed his whole family... for A WEEK.
Taken together with the other young hunters, and divvied up amongst the community, 1 solid kill would garner enough leftovers to feed the widows/orphans/elderly/infirm.
The rest of the time (after building your hut or igloo or tree-fort) would be spent farking under the moonlight...

I'm not an idiot. I don't advocate "going off the grid"

All I'm saying is this:

Somewhere, Someone you've never met is gobbling up your extra 26 hours of labor per week. And though you work hard for a living, HE never really has had to.
YOUR piss smells of cheap vodka and 'chiken-flavored' ramen noodles, while HIS soft, fleshy hands smell of almas caviar, fine champagne, and perfumed toilet paper.

We're all a bunch of suckers.
2014-03-02 07:35:13 PM  
3 votes:
Some of you are assuming that working hard and sucking up the commute will somehow translate into her getting ahead.

She is a teacher's aide. She will never get a promotion, or a large pay raise, unless she went and completed whatever credentials needed to obtain a teaching certificate. If she wanted retirement she would have to work another 15 years minimum anticipating maybe 15 or 20 cent hourly raises each year.
2014-03-02 07:31:24 PM  
3 votes:

Bonzo_1116: A 35 mile commute for a job that pays $11.48/hr?

Brutal.


My division of the company I worked for was sold off not too long ago to a competitor, and they had two equally shiatty offices you could choose to work for if they offered you a job, both around 34-36 miles away from our old office.... which was a whole 4 minutes from my house. If they offered you a job in the new company and you didn't take it then you got no severance, no unemployment, no nothing as the federal guidelines are anything under 50 miles and you either take it or go get farked.

The difficulty? This is the DC metro area we're talking about, and those 35 miles are through some of the most brutal traffic in the country. 35 miles here isn't the same commute as 35 miles in Bumfark Kansas (it's a lovely place I hear). I was offered a job, and took it and now I have a commute which, round trip, is anywhere from 2+ hours a day when it's perfect to 5 hours a day when it's bad. It's not fun (doesn't help that my car is stick either), and it DOES beat the hell up out of your car and since it's travel to your job site you don't get reimbursed or compensated for that mileage. They offered me the same pay I was making before so between tolls, gas, time and extra repairs (which have been substantial) it has been a significant reduction in both income and quality of life.

The most galling part is that the wife and I moved to where we live specifically to be closer to work, and my wife works just blocks from our house. We also got a great deal and are really settled in, so we're not moving anywhere. I'm currently looking for a new job, but the job market SUCKS BIG TIME.

They could at least make the federal distance regulation a regional thing...
2014-03-02 07:25:14 PM  
3 votes:

optikeye: So, she'll go on food stamps and welfare and we'll pay for it. And all the money she paid into a UI goes bye bye...but the employer gets a refund for their share.

The US is farked up.


It is.

She is a realtor for high end properties who doesnt use her commissions to pay for insurance, so she teaches school for low pay while enjoying the insurance benefits year around while she does her real job.

I have a neighbor here in Florida who does the same thing.  She lives in a 3 million dollar house, sells property and teaches school.

She recently tried to have teachers strike because of a benefit cut for those who work less than 20 hours a week(which she does) but god forbid she just paid for it out of her pocket.  She was over at my house recently bragging about a 75k commission she just made on a property.
2014-03-02 07:20:54 PM  
3 votes:

Tillmaster: The US system is broken.


Yeah, we need a system like European teachers who ride an hour on a bus each way going half as many miles for half the wages and double the taxes.
2014-03-02 07:00:52 PM  
3 votes:
Is the dumbass the woman?  Looks like the judge made a simple decision based on current law and existing precedent.
2014-03-02 06:53:48 PM  
3 votes:
That's all sorts of messed up right there.

"Good news, worker! You get to keep your job. But the new job is a 70 mile round trip further away!"

"Um, no."

"Well, if you refuse, that's considered job abandonment, NO UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITS FOR YOU!"

The punchline? The employer gets a refund of everything they contributed to their share of the unemployment that they paid. Not so much for workers. Workers NEVER get a refund.

...So yeah, employers have wide latitude AND motive to dick you around.
2014-03-02 06:50:38 PM  
3 votes:
Thanks Bush/Clinton/Bush/Obama/NAFTA
2014-03-02 06:46:40 PM  
3 votes:
Yup. You quit your job, no unemployment. You have to get laid off.
2014-03-03 11:31:18 AM  
2 votes:

Gyrfalcon: squirrelflavoredyogurt: Wow, thread if full of, "That sucks but I've put up with worse so fark her" comments. If you've put up with worse, you're an idiot. Chances are I'm paying for some form of government aid for you because you're accepting a shiat job. We, (by that I mean me, and other people who make slightly, but not significantly  more than you) pay billions in taxes for public aid because the companies you work for, which make huge profits, don't pay a livable wage to you.

Corporate welfare raises everyone's cost of living except for the poor who get public aide. I pay a bigger percentage of my earnings in taxes than Mitt Romney does. The fact that rural poor people tend to vote republican and further fark both themselves and me pisses me off to no end. Wake up you farking idiots, we can't have nicer things because you keep voting against us having nicer things.

It's really very sad, but what exactly did you want? The judge told her what she needed to do to get her unemployment: Show that a 35-mile commute was unconscionable. Show that it was too much of a hardship for her to keep her job. NOT "yes it sucks so give me my money."

Court--and this is a court, just a court of equity, not law--doesn't take "It's too haaaarrd" as proof. It takes, well, proof. And proof is not hard to obtain. Here are the gas receipts. Here is the bus schedule. Here are affadavits from my coworkers showing that they cannot carpool with me. If it's too impossible to commute, then yes, you can quit and still get unemployment insurance, you just have to show that it's too impossible to commute (or, you know, that there is some other difficulty that makes it impossible for you to work there). But  you have to SHOW it.

Now the people here saying "Suck it up or get a better job", well, that's not really an answer either. But some people have shown exactly what she needed to do to prove her case: Here is my gas mileage, here is the cost of gas, here is the ratio of my gas expense to m ...


That's all well and good from a monetary sense, but what about her quality of living sense? A 35 mile commute in rush hour traffic may add an hour or more each way to commute. What if she doesn't want to miss 2 more hours a day away from her family?

Unemployment insurance is just that, insurance. Employers and employees both pay into it and it should be available for exactly this type of scenario. The woman did nothing wrong, she wasn't fired, they simply decided to move her job 35 miles away. She should be able to receive payouts from the insurance policy she paid into for a reasonable amount of time to alleviate any hardship while she looks for another job.

For the judge to simply suggest that because she didn't even try it for a day somehow proves it's insurmountable is idiocy. Imagine getting into a car accident and having a judge rule that you can't collect on insurance because you can afford to pay to fix your car yourself, or that you should try taking the bus, or carpooling with coworkers.
2014-03-03 07:29:38 AM  
2 votes:

Kensey: A 45-minute commute is well within the range that most Americans who live in that kind of area (semi-rural shading toward urban) have.  She'd have been in a much better situation if she'd tried their offered accommodations and documented why they weren't sufficient, which is the main thrust of the court's argument -- she literally did not even try the new arrangement.


She shouldn't have had to. She worked her job 5 years and deserved better.

Another vote for the corporate merry go round whipping machine.

Bring it on. Have you people no shame? Keep fellating the money god, and blaming the victims.
2014-03-03 01:23:03 AM  
2 votes:
Wow, thread if full of, "That sucks but I've put up with worse so fark her" comments. If you've put up with worse, you're an idiot. Chances are I'm paying for some form of government aid for you because you're accepting a shiat job. We, (by that I mean me, and other people who make slightly, but not significantly  more than you) pay billions in taxes for public aid because the companies you work for, which make huge profits, don't pay a livable wage to you.

Corporate welfare raises everyone's cost of living except for the poor who get public aide. I pay a bigger percentage of my earnings in taxes than Mitt Romney does. The fact that rural poor people tend to vote republican and further fark both themselves and me pisses me off to no end. Wake up you farking idiots, we can't have nicer things because you keep voting against us having nicer things.
2014-03-02 11:42:31 PM  
2 votes:

Gyrfalcon: Of course, everyone here is missing that she could have gotten her unemployment insurance except she failed to demonstrate that the 70 mile round trip commute was unduly burdensome. According to the judge, she never even tried to make a showing: She never made the commute even once, never looked into carpooling or public transportation, never asked for flextime (though it was, apparently offered). She did NOTHING except quit and then whine it was "just too far." Or, excuse me, would have put too much "wear and tear" on her car.


For a shiatty 11 dollar an hour job you're going to take the side of the judge?
2014-03-02 10:01:41 PM  
2 votes:
So...all you numbnuts that say "I drive further and get paid more, what a loser"... The two elements of your statement contradict each other, you smug farks.
Say she's got a reasonably efficient car that gets on average 20 miles per gallon. That means she burns two gallons EACH WAY, right,
Gasbuddy puts gas prices in PA at about $3.50 a gallon right now, so seven bucks each way. Times two, fourteen bucks in commuting costs every day.
Now, at 11.48 gross an hour, what do you think her take home is? Between gas and wear and tear, she'd be losing two hours worth of wages to commute alone.
2014-03-02 09:27:18 PM  
2 votes:
Remember when you decided to move to the sticks so you can "afford more house?"

Seems like the chickens are coming home to roost
2014-03-02 08:17:22 PM  
2 votes:
Prior to 1992 very few workers drove more than 15 to20 miles for good paying jobs. In 92 your government knuckled under to big buisness and signed NAFTA into law. this was a green light for buisness to send jobs south of the border where workers would work for $1.15/hr. They also eliminated taxwes on imports so that American companies could send materials to places like Mexico, and assemble the products and bring them back with no taxes. So I guess we all know where the local jobs went and why every one has to drive 40 miles for low wages
2014-03-02 07:34:15 PM  
2 votes:

AUAIOMRN: mbillips: Yup. You quit your job, no unemployment. You have to get laid off.


So refusing to be transferred 35 miles away is now "quitting"? Especially for a $11 an hour job?


A transfer with a half-hour commute definitely falls under a reasonable attempt at accommodation by the employer as an alternative to just canning her.  I'd say it's plenty to void unemployment insurance, at least the UI the employer's funding.

State-funded UI is dodgier, personally I'd vote that any state-funded UI program err much more on the side of paying out, and would say this is enough of a gray area they should probably just list her for at least short-term payout.
2014-03-02 07:30:09 PM  
2 votes:

optikeye: So, she'll go on food stamps and welfare and we'll pay for it. And all the money she paid into a UI goes bye bye...but the employer gets a refund for their share.

The US is farked up.


Employees don't pay into unemployment as a direct payroll deduction.
2014-03-02 07:25:36 PM  
2 votes:
It should be illegal to require someone to have to commute that far.
2014-03-02 07:21:18 PM  
2 votes:

Trixie212: Bonzo_1116: A 35 mile commute for a job that pays $11.48/hr?

Brutal.

I spent a year driving an hour and ten minutes to and from work for $8.50 an hour ten years ago. I had an old car with no working heater or air conditioner but it was still preferable to going on welfare and food stamps. I had a family to take care of so I did what I had to do.

Long story short, I'm still working there but moved closer after a while and now work as a manager.

She should have at least given it a try. I learned to enjoy the quiet drive. She might have, too.

/or not
//agree she didn't qualify for unemployment


Welcome to the world for those of that live in rural areas and have to travel to the city to get any sort of job.  Get a job at Wal-Mart close by and come out equal or ahead.  Some people actually need unemployment because they were laid off, not because they were feeling like a princess.  System sucks but hey, there's a lot of people that are much worse off.
2014-03-02 07:19:15 PM  
2 votes:
At various times in my life, I'd have killed for only a 35 mile commute.  At one point, I was driving 29 miles from home to work for a seasonal job, then another 52 miles to volunteer as a college coach.  It was a crap job, but I stuck it out to get experience.

I've never had a commute of less than 39 miles.  You want to get ahead, you have to pay your dues.
2014-03-02 07:13:57 PM  
2 votes:
I do not see the issue with this.
2014-03-02 07:02:20 PM  
2 votes:
So, let's consider this in other terms.

At $11.48 an hour, that is about $98 a day gross. Say you knock 20% off for taxes, Social Security, all that stuff. That leaves about $74

If she drives a car that gets the US average of 20 miles per gallon, that's about 3.5 gallons a day for a 70-mile round trip commute. So at the average price of gas in Pottstown, PA, that's $12.50 a day in gasoline.

So a 35-mile commute takes her take-home pay from $74 to $61.

In conclusion, her commute costs would amount to about 20% of her pay.
2014-03-02 06:55:05 PM  
2 votes:
Wake up America, your goveernment and big business has sold all of your jobs down the river to the lowest bidder
2014-03-02 06:52:25 PM  
2 votes:
Should have used public transportation until they fired you for being frequently tardy.
2014-03-02 06:51:07 PM  
2 votes:
In before the idiots flood this thread to suggest that she should have moved closer to work.
2014-03-02 06:46:40 PM  
2 votes:
The US system is broken.
2014-03-03 05:41:48 PM  
1 votes:

whidbey: Kensey: It may be worth noting that as a pro se litigant, she would have been well-advised to at least search Google Scholar; she would have found a wealth of case law telling her in pretty definite terms that she would lose.

Maybe she already knew she was going to lose, so what?

This thread is so "blame the victim" it's almost amusing the lengths people will justify what's basically tyranny.


So if she knew she didn't have a case, don't waste everybody's time and taxpayer dollars just to make some quixotic stand against what you appear to think is tyranny, but in reality is called "dealing with a layoff/job move" by the rest of us.  And let's not forget the strong possibility I noted before, that even if she had prevailed, she still would have been paid little or nothing after accounting for her other income.

Unemployment compensation is not a right.  It is intended to temporarily remedy a specific situation: involuntary job separation not for cause, and priced accordingly.  If you want no-fault UI, get the law changed, don't carp about the existing law not providing a benefit it's explicitly not intended to.
2014-03-03 03:45:20 PM  
1 votes:

Kensey: DarkSoulNoHope: ChaosStar: StopLurkListen: Workers NEVER get a refund.

Stoker: I never saw any refund for employees who were denied unemployment.

Employees do not pay into unemployment, which is probably why you never see refunds.

Wrong! Employees and employers both pay into unemployment, you'll see yours deducted from your W-2 (I see mine right there to report for my New Jersey tax returns) and your paychecks.

Maybe in some states, but by no means all.  And that would be a a state fee, not federally-funded UI.


Still paid by our taxes, doesn't mean the money from unemployment magically appears.
2014-03-03 12:02:19 PM  
1 votes:

Jument: Anyone who owns a car that gets 20 mpg except in the worst possible commuting traffic is an idiot who deserves what they get. There are plenty of reasonable options that will get you closer to or over 30. Nobody needs a huge, gas-sucking vehicle so just please stop it.


You tell 'em! What are these construction workers thinking driving around those gas guzzling pick-up trucks and cargo vans, hauling lumber and tools back and forth to work, they can easily fit those loads in a more environmentally friendly car.

www.swapmeetdave.com

Or those large families driving around in their SUV's and mini-vans when smaller cars have perfectly good trunk space for the kids to ride in.

im.rediff.com

By God if you can get by driving a small compact car then everyone else can too!
2014-03-03 11:17:39 AM  
1 votes:

Ima4nic8or: whidbey: squirrelflavoredyogurt: If you've put up with worse, you're an idiot. Chances are I'm paying for some form of government aid for you because you're accepting a shiat job

You don't know what in the hell you are talking about.  I put up with a bit worse of a commute; 46 miles, but am not taking any government aid.  My salary is almost 5x the woman in the story.  That said, if I had to commute 46 miles to work for only $11 and change per hour I would.  I am not a slug. I would rather work and contribute to the world than sit at home vegetating and collecting pity money that I didn't earn.


You are pretty self righteous though aren't you?

A.) I'm betting you chose the commute and that your employer didn't just one day say, hey we moved your job 46 miles away.

B.) Employees and Employers  pay for unemployment insurance, suggesting that it's a hand out from the government shows me that you are either completely clueless about how it works or willfully ignorant and out to blame others for simply collecting on the insurance they paid into.

C.) I'm not sure what a "slug" is exactly, but if you've ever taken a payout from an auto or home insurance policy, they you are exactly as much of a "slug" as you're suggesting this woman is.

D.) Nothing in the article suggests that this woman wants to sit at home collecting a check for doing nothing, she wants to collect unemployment while she looks for another job. Suggesting that anyone who wants to collect on an insurance policy they paid into somehow makes them a lesser person than you shows me that you are a farking idiot who doesn't deserve any more of my time.
2014-03-03 10:45:32 AM  
1 votes:

moeburn: Since when?  I've never seen anyone that wasn't stupid or didn't own a ferarri that used premium gasoline, and I haven't heard an engine knock in 20 years.


Turbocharged cars use premium. They have to in order to avoid pre-detonation from the higher compression ratios. Seeing how newer cars are going toward smaller displacement turbo engines to replace low powered, less fuel efficient, higher displacement engines the need for premium is going to rise. Cars using engines like the 1.3Ts coming out are going to becomes more and more common and popular. Hell, the new Mustang is going to have a turbo 4 as the mid range engine option. Last I read, anyway.

And as far as fuel efficiency goes, if you're not making much money then you wont have a lot to spend on cars. If you only have $2-3k to spend on a car you're not going to have much to choose from if you want to avoid a money pit. Especially if you live where road salt is common place. Go ahead and look at your local Craigslist for that price range, assuming that you know what to look for in a used car, that is. You're going to see most cars that a low income person can afford that are worth buying to get in the high teens to low 20s for fuel efficiency.

Late 90s Japanese small-mid sized are going to be in the 20s. If you want something that's plentiful, cheap and reliable (say if you need a car asap) then Ford's Panther platform is a good bet. Those get about 17 mpg. But that 4.6 modular is a rock solid engine. As for late 90s cars, one should avoid automatic Hondas. The transmissions are starting to fail now in higher than average numbers. That eliminates lots and lots of otherwise reliable cars that are out there in that price range.

As a light hearted aside, my best commute for a job was right about 5 miles. The morning traffic took me about 12-14 minutes on average. This was wonderful, except for one thing. My motorcycle didn't like it. The transmission oil never got up to operating temp just going between the house and job. Subsequently I got a lot of moisture (condensation) in the primary. The oil was a milky white when I went to change it. Other than that it was a great drive/ride. The road to get there was a 2 lane back road (it was a refinery) so there wasn't any public transportation to and from and taking to take a bicycle would have been dangerous. I miss that commute but definitely not the job. I hated that place.
2014-03-03 09:28:07 AM  
1 votes:
I once tried to give my 2-week's notice to my minimum wage employer, as I was leaving for a more-than-minimum wage job.  She got so mad at me for this, that she fired me on the spot, and told me to leave right away.

Little did she know, in Canada, employers ALSO have to give 2-weeks notice when firing employees for non-work-performance related issues.  And if they don't, they have to give 2 weeks pay.  I got 2 weeks free pay because of that stupid spiteful biatch.

Although I did have to file a claim to the government... and then have them call and harass my employer until they finally mailed me the cheque.
2014-03-03 08:52:30 AM  
1 votes:

Jument: Anyone who owns a car that gets 20 mpg except in the worst possible commuting traffic is an idiot who deserves what they get. There are plenty of reasonable options that will get you closer to or over 30. Nobody needs a huge, gas-sucking vehicle so just please stop it.


The average fuel economy for new cars in 2013 is 24.9 MPG. It's not unreasonable to assume that someone has a slightly older or larger car, and may not have the option to buy a brand new one for a commute to a job that's pays $11.48 per hour. The cheapest new car I could find that gets 30+ MPG is over $26,000 MSRP for the most basic model.

But let's pretend you're right and she can just drop 30 large on a car that gets 30 MPG. That's about 2.3 gallons per commute. Since any newer high-mileage car uses premium/92 octane gas, and the average price in Pottstown, PA is $3.85 per gallon, that's $8.85 a day in gas, which amounts to 12 percent of her daily take-home pay. Factor in maintenance and insurance, and you're at around 15%.

So good for you. You can drop thirty grand on a new car and reduce the pay cut from 20% to 15%. Boy, you sure told me.
2014-03-03 03:14:12 AM  
1 votes:

squirrelflavoredyogurt: Wow, thread if full of, "That sucks but I've put up with worse so fark her" comments. If you've put up with worse, you're an idiot. Chances are I'm paying for some form of government aid for you because you're accepting a shiat job. We, (by that I mean me, and other people who make slightly, but not significantly  more than you) pay billions in taxes for public aid because the companies you work for, which make huge profits, don't pay a livable wage to you.

Corporate welfare raises everyone's cost of living except for the poor who get public aide. I pay a bigger percentage of my earnings in taxes than Mitt Romney does. The fact that rural poor people tend to vote republican and further fark both themselves and me pisses me off to no end. Wake up you farking idiots, we can't have nicer things because you keep voting against us having nicer things.


It's really very sad, but what exactly did you want? The judge told her what she needed to do to get her unemployment: Show that a 35-mile commute was unconscionable. Show that it was too much of a hardship for her to keep her job. NOT "yes it sucks so give me my money."

Court--and this is a court, just a court of equity, not law--doesn't take "It's too haaaarrd" as proof. It takes, well, proof. And proof is not hard to obtain. Here are the gas receipts. Here is the bus schedule. Here are affadavits from my coworkers showing that they cannot carpool with me. If it's too impossible to commute, then yes, you can quit and still get unemployment insurance, you just have to show that it's too impossible to commute (or, you know, that there is some other difficulty that makes it impossible for you to work there). But  you have to SHOW it.

Now the people here saying "Suck it up or get a better job", well, that's not really an answer either. But some people have shown exactly what she needed to do to prove her case: Here is my gas mileage, here is the cost of gas, here is the ratio of my gas expense to my take-home pay. Here is the bus schedule that shows I'd have a five-hour additional commute to use public transport. Here are letters from my presumed colleagues who cannot carpool. See how that works in court?

Insofar as her boss transferring her, well, I can't speak to that. But the judge can't and won't just say "Yes, it's clearly unfair that you have to commute 35 miles to and from work," without some kind of evidence that it is unfair. People seem to dislike that, but that's how courts work. Whining that something is "unfair" or "too hard" is for middle-schoolers. And not even them.
2014-03-03 01:18:14 AM  
1 votes:

Gyrfalcon: whidbey: Gyrfalcon: Of course, everyone here is missing that she could have gotten her unemployment insurance except she failed to demonstrate that the 70 mile round trip commute was unduly burdensome. According to the judge, she never even tried to make a showing: She never made the commute even once, never looked into carpooling or public transportation, never asked for flextime (though it was, apparently offered). She did NOTHING except quit and then whine it was "just too far." Or, excuse me, would have put too much "wear and tear" on her car.

For a shiatty 11 dollar an hour job you're going to take the side of the judge?

I'm going to take the side that all she needed to have done was bring in some receipts that showed how much gas and oil she was going to be using, a couple affadavits from coworkers that they couldn't carpool, a copy of the Metro bus schedule showing how there was no service in her area. Boom, done. She did her due diligence, now either she gets her unemployment or else has a great case on appeal.

Why is doing the minimum effort so very hard for some people? If she wanted her unemployment, that is. If the idea here was to make a case for how mean her boss was, then why was she even applying for unemployment, instead of making a case for improper job transfer? And if she really wanted the job, why didn't she find some way to get there?

She didn't even try. So yeah, I'm taking the judge's side. What do you want him to do? Say "Yes, you're right, I'll just take your word that a crappy $11/hr job is worth not showing up?" Not in this economy.


Well, whatever. It just shocks me occasionally to see someone who is usually sympathetic side with the more conservative position. You really don't have to, you know.
2014-03-03 12:56:44 AM  
1 votes:

Captain Dan: Nobody is entitled to a job, much less a good job.  She should be grateful to even have a job opportunity, which millions of people don't.  Suck it up, pray for forbearance, and work hard enough to become indispensable.

/not trolling
//I've worked in worse conditions, for less money
///it eliminated any sense of middle-class entitlement I felt


Yeah, because poor and middle class entitlement is what's really destroying this country. The plutocrat's entitlement is great.
2014-03-02 10:51:22 PM  
1 votes:
At bank where I used to work, transferring troublesome employees was favored as a way to get them to quit if they were minority, female or some other group likely to sue (even though we were a "right-to-work" state). They could have almost a 100-mile round trip commute. To my knowledge, none of them ever lasted more than three days at the new location. Most quickly took jobs at other banks where the commute was shorter.
2014-03-02 10:50:47 PM  
1 votes:

Emposter: It depends on how long the 35 mile commute is.  I commute 28 miles into DC, but it takes about 90 minutes each way because I have to deal with lights, slow roads, then transfer to the Metro then walk 7 blocks.  The extra 3 hours per day is over and above 40 hours per week, which means I spend the equivalent of 56.25% of my work year commuting (3x5x1.5/40).  My commute is worth more than half my annual pay (not even counting damage to my car, gas, $5 metro parking per day and $12 metro fair per day).  It sucks.

A 35 mile drive could take 35 minutes.  It could also take 120 minutes.  35 minutes each way wouldn't be unreasonable, even at $11.48/hr.
Somewhere at or around 60 minutes it would start to be an issue, IMO.

I'd like to thank the article for leaving out relevant details, as usual with today's journalism.


Well they mentioned the school (Montgomery Early Learning Center) and where she was supposed to transfer to (Narberth).  A little bit of Googling suggests, based on other schools around 35 miles away, that the drive would take around 43 minutes, which obviously doesn't account for rush hour.  It looks like a suburb of Philly, I know nothing about the area but will say that the interstate system north west of Narberth (which is where the other schools all seem to be) is a giant charlie foxtrot that probably isn't fun during rush hour.
2014-03-02 10:34:20 PM  
1 votes:

Captain Dan: Nobody is entitled to a job, much less a good job.  She should be grateful to even have a job opportunity, which millions of people don't.  Suck it up, pray for forbearance, and work hard enough to become indispensable.

/not trolling
//I've worked in worse conditions, for less money
///it eliminated any sense of middle-class entitlement I felt


That's not middle class though.  According to the people running this country during the last several years' campaigns, middle class is anyone making up to $200k or $250k a year (depending on who's talking)... yet the median working household income was $50k... meaning HALF of U.S. households make less than 20% of "middle class"...  at $11.48/hr, that's $23,878.40 a year, which is less than 12.5% of what people call middle class.  Oh, and to make $50k a year, you'd have to earn over $24/hr...

So what if you had a crappier job for less money than the person in the article? Neither of you was close to middle class by today's definition.  The idea that people making 6 figures a year are in the same economic class as those making $10/hr is the sort of asinine state of affairs that beg for revolution, not indifference.
2014-03-02 10:10:06 PM  
1 votes:

Cyclometh: evil saltine: But you're not unemployed.

I wouldn't take a transfer in her situation either. Better to be unemployed and use other resources while looking for a job closer to home. Not everyone has that option, of course- but it sounds like she does.

I used to commute 75 miles  one way for a job. Of course, that paid well over six figures with absolutely gonzo benefits (no co-pays on anything health-related, you could self-refer to any specialist you wanted and there was no employee contribution).

I left that one in the end because it was soul-crushing to have to go that far all the time. 35 miles wouldn't have been as bad but in the end that's a lot of time you could spend with your family just sitting in traffic.

I'm not arguing that she should have been granted unemployment; I do think that if she'd argued that the new position wasn't a reasonable accommodation because it amounted to a pay cut with an increase in time commitment, she might have done better.

It's interesting that so many people are derisive of someone who says they won't get shat on, though. It's clear a lot of you know who your masters are and are happy with the boot on your neck.


This Very much This
2014-03-02 09:39:20 PM  
1 votes:

Cyclometh: Jim_Callahan: Unemployment insurance is for people that  lose their job

You may be the best kind of correct on this, but if your only option to keep a job is to add 2-3 hours of daily commute time AND a 20% pay cut, I'd argue that in any way that actually matters, you HAVE lost your job and have been given a new, shiattier job.


But you're not unemployed.
2014-03-02 09:36:47 PM  
1 votes:

Jim_Callahan: Unemployment insurance is for people that  lose their job


You may be the best kind of correct on this, but if your only option to keep a job is to add 2-3 hours of daily commute time AND a 20% pay cut, I'd argue that in any way that actually matters, you HAVE lost your job and have been given a new, shiattier job.
2014-03-02 09:25:37 PM  
1 votes:
35 miles 1 way commute...
but I make a hell of a lot more than $12/hr.

were I a minimum wage slave, I'd probaly quit too... but that's the crux of the matter... when you quit, you don't get unemployment.
2014-03-02 09:20:46 PM  
1 votes:
$11.48 an hour seems like awfully low pay for a teacher.
2014-03-02 09:14:59 PM  
1 votes:

Monkeyhouse Zendo: Jim_Callahan: A transfer with a half-hour commute definitely falls under a reasonable attempt at accommodation by the employer as an alternative to just canning her.  I'd say it's plenty to void unemployment insurance, at least the UI the employer's funding.

In what universe is 35 miles a 30 minute commute? San Francisco is 7 miles across but it takes 45 minutes to get from the Sunset to the Embarcadero at 7:00 am.


Yeah, but this is rural-ish PA, not urban SF.  She probably would spend most of that commute at highway speed on US-422.

TsarTom: Bill Bryson once postulated it would take 14 hours for a stone-age adult (14-30 y/o) male to hunt up enough meat to feed his whole family... for A WEEK.
Taken together with the other young hunters, and divvied up amongst the community, 1 solid kill would garner enough leftovers to feed the widows/orphans/elderly/infirm.
The rest of the time (after building your hut or igloo or tree-fort) would be spent farking under the moonlight...


14 hours per week per person, yeah, that's about right for the Stone Age.  And if we all quit working more than 14 hours a week, that's what we'd go back to in a generation or two.  It takes work to keep civilization running.  You need a certain minimum population just to do enough work to maintain civilization, and as civilization gets more complex and interconnected that minimum population rises.

whidbey: toadist: This woman should be embarrassed for even applying for unemployment.

Get it together and find another job,  don't go on the public dole.

So let's just give employers even more power than they have right now, k?

It's always the worker's fault.


Not always, but sometimes, and this looks to me like one of those times.

As for me, I used to do about what she's complaining about for what was, adjusted for inflation, about the same money.  It was an entry-level position and I grew out of it eventually, moved back into town and got a better job.
2014-03-02 09:14:54 PM  
1 votes:
They made the right call. If 35 miles is too much then she just doesn't want to work.  I do 46 miles each way, admittedly for more money though.   Its not trivial but I would do more if that is what it takes to be a working, contributing member of society.  She sounds like a diva type that thinks the work should come to where she is.  Sorry but it doesn't work that way.
2014-03-02 09:08:03 PM  
1 votes:
As someone who routinely commutes a 70 mile round trip though LA TRAFFIC for a teaching job, I have little sympathy.

When you have done a 35 mile leg that took over 3 hours due to a freeway closure, and pee was ready to start flowing out of your ears, then maybe I will have some sympathy. But even then, it is unlikely.
2014-03-02 09:05:33 PM  
1 votes:
35 mile drive for 11 bucks an hour? Nope, I wouldn't do it either.
2014-03-02 09:01:35 PM  
1 votes:

BluVeinThrobber: Wake up America, your goveernment and big business has sold all of your jobs down the river to the lowest bidder


Always nice to see a liberal/populist who is for curbing immigration and is anti-amnesty.
2014-03-02 09:00:18 PM  
1 votes:

tripleseven: A boss actually said to me "I will not lay you off, I will make you quit. There's no way I am paying unemployment for you"  And yes, he then proceeded to try everything to make me quit.  And I eventually did.  Although, three days later he called me and begged me to consult for him.

Yes, the American system is broken.


I think I'd like to hear your boss's side of things before I indict my entire country.
2014-03-02 08:57:36 PM  
1 votes:

Cyclometh: So, let's consider this in other terms.

At $11.48 an hour, that is about $98 a day gross. Say you knock 20% off for taxes, Social Security, all that stuff. That leaves about $74

If she drives a car that gets the US average of 20 miles per gallon, that's about 3.5 gallons a day for a 70-mile round trip commute. So at the average price of gas in Pottstown, PA, that's $12.50 a day in gasoline.

So a 35-mile commute takes her take-home pay from $74 to $61.

In conclusion, her commute costs would amount to about 20% of her pay.



But now that she quit instead of trying to work it out, she makes $0 for being a lazy biatch.

/your math sucks
2014-03-02 08:43:19 PM  
1 votes:

TsarTom: Bill Bryson once postulated it would take 14 hours for a stone-age adult (14-30 y/o) male to hunt up enough meat to feed his whole family... for A WEEK.
Taken together with the other young hunters, and divvied up amongst the community, 1 solid kill would garner enough leftovers to feed the widows/orphans/elderly/infirm.
The rest of the time (after building your hut or igloo or tree-fort) would be spent farking under the moonlight...

I'm not an idiot. I don't advocate "going off the grid"

All I'm saying is this:

Somewhere, Someone you've never met is gobbling up your extra 26 hours of labor per week. And though you work hard for a living, HE never really has had to.
YOUR piss smells of cheap vodka and 'chiken-flavored' ramen noodles, while HIS soft, fleshy hands smell of almas caviar, fine champagne, and perfumed toilet paper.

We're all a bunch of suckers.


Mrs. Thrag in this scenario spent up to thirty hours a week digging and prepping roots for supper for the days when Mr. Thrag was unlucky.

It's still loads less work than now.

/Agriculture was the downfall of leisure.
2014-03-02 08:37:02 PM  
1 votes:

Cyclometh: So, let's consider this in other terms.

At $11.48 an hour, that is about $98 a day gross. Say you knock 20% off for taxes, Social Security, all that stuff. That leaves about $74

If she drives a car that gets the US average of 20 miles per gallon, that's about 3.5 gallons a day for a 70-mile round trip commute. So at the average price of gas in Pottstown, PA, that's $12.50 a day in gasoline.

So a 35-mile commute takes her take-home pay from $74 to $61.

In conclusion, her commute costs would amount to about 20% of her pay.


Unless she uses the $61 a day to build a teleportation device that runs on cheap renewable energy.

Profit!
2014-03-02 08:35:37 PM  
1 votes:

Bonzo_1116: A 35 mile commute for a job that pays $11.48/hr?

Brutal.


That's not even worth the commute, but it was completely stupid to apply for unemployment after quitting.
2014-03-02 08:29:48 PM  
1 votes:

Jim_Callahan: A transfer with a half-hour commute definitely falls under a reasonable attempt at accommodation by the employer as an alternative to just canning her.  I'd say it's plenty to void unemployment insurance, at least the UI the employer's funding.


In what universe is 35 miles a 30 minute commute? San Francisco is 7 miles across but it takes 45 minutes to get from the Sunset to the Embarcadero at 7:00 am.
2014-03-02 08:06:06 PM  
1 votes:
BadMotivator
2014-03-02 06:47:07 PM


Turns out the Republicans were right. We need to deregulate the streets.

Liberal state, liberal school system... quick, blame republicans!
2014-03-02 08:04:43 PM  
1 votes:

majestic: optikeye: So, she'll go on food stamps and welfare and we'll pay for it. And all the money she paid into a UI goes bye bye...but the employer gets a refund for their share.

The US is farked up.

Employees don't pay into unemployment as a direct payroll deduction.


That is correct. The employer is responsible for FUTA (federal) and SUTA/SUI (state) unemployment taxes. The state portion can get extremely complex when your employees work multiple jobs in many states throughout the year.

I suppose the effect of paying these liabilities is reflected in the employees wage, though an employee never pays for unemployment directly.
2014-03-02 07:48:26 PM  
1 votes:

powhound: Some of you are assuming that working hard and sucking up the commute will somehow translate into her getting ahead.

She is a teacher's aide. She will never get a promotion, or a large pay raise, unless she went and completed whatever credentials needed to obtain a teaching certificate. If she wanted retirement she would have to work another 15 years minimum anticipating maybe 15 or 20 cent hourly raises each year.


No one's saying it will get her ahead, we're saying she has the option to  stay employed, probably while looking for another job, but still.  Unemployment insurance is for people that  lose their job, not people who think it's a dead end or get fed up with what's being asked of them and quit.

I mean, if there was some malice involved, like the employer was intentionally setting up untenable options to purposefully try to make people quit, that'd be a different thing (and I assume that's what she was alleging... kind of ridiculously, since school closings aren't really based on consolidations usually).  But basically she had the option to keep bringing in a paycheck while looking for a new job, and she chose not to do so.

She can't even really claim that the job continuance offers weren't legitimate because of the commute... the sheer empirical evidence of millions of Americans with a half-hour commute to a shiatty job that do it without incident sort of strikes that one down fast.
2014-03-02 07:45:28 PM  
1 votes:

The hopeless imp: PA also takes a "right to work tax" out of your paycheck. This is in addition to the state income tax. And then Pottstown most likely (being a shiathole town with a school in PA) has a local income tax. She'd be lucky to clear $50 a day.
On the other hand, you simply cannot quit your job in PA and expect to get unemployment. Even if it's due to a hostile work environment. PA views unemployment as strictly being for lay offs.



Clearing $50 a day is probably half of S Central Pa.

If you quit your job.... you better get off your ass and go find another.    Not apply for unemployment.

Dumbass tag appropriate for dumbass teacher.
2014-03-02 07:41:37 PM  
1 votes:
I wonder how long she was commuting before.
2014-03-02 07:34:29 PM  
1 votes:

tripleseven: A boss actually said to me "I will not lay you off, I will make you quit. There's no way I am paying unemployment for you"  And yes, he then proceeded to try everything to make me quit.  And I eventually did.  Although, three days later he called me and begged me to consult for him.

Yes, the American system is broken.


One of those times you just wish you had a tape recorder handy.
2014-03-02 07:32:42 PM  
1 votes:

optikeye: So, she'll go on food stamps and welfare and we'll pay for it. And all the money she paid into a UI goes bye bye...but the employer gets a refund for their share.

The US is farked up.



It is, and if you want to know why a lot of it has to do with idiots like the one who posted just after you.
2014-03-02 07:22:42 PM  
1 votes:
PA also takes a "right to work tax" out of your paycheck. This is in addition to the state income tax. And then Pottstown most likely (being a shiathole town with a school in PA) has a local income tax. She'd be lucky to clear $50 a day.
On the other hand, you simply cannot quit your job in PA and expect to get unemployment. Even if it's due to a hostile work environment. PA views unemployment as strictly being for lay offs.
2014-03-02 07:18:20 PM  
1 votes:
I always thought that was the trade off; you get to enjoy the relative peace and quiet of living in a rural / small town area, but your likely to have to travel further for work and amenities.
2014-03-02 07:18:20 PM  
1 votes:
You have to be kidding me. No one in PA drives less that 35 miles to work, and they do it for way less money and far fewer days than this person. She wants to be paid $45k a year for a part time job and not drive for it? Hire a limo.
2014-03-02 07:15:41 PM  
1 votes:
Nobody is entitled to a job, much less a good job.  She should be grateful to even have a job opportunity, which millions of people don't.  Suck it up, pray for forbearance, and work hard enough to become indispensable.

/not trolling
//I've worked in worse conditions, for less money
///it eliminated any sense of middle-class entitlement I felt
2014-03-02 07:15:34 PM  
1 votes:
So, she'll go on food stamps and welfare and we'll pay for it. And all the money she paid into a UI goes bye bye...but the employer gets a refund for their share.

The US is farked up.
2014-03-02 07:15:18 PM  
1 votes:

Nix Nightbird: Bonzo_1116: A 35 mile commute for a job that pays $11.48/hr?

Yeah, in the end she's taking home around $7 an hour. At that rate, she might as well get a job at Walmart (or wherever) and earn more than that with a shorter commute.



Which is what most people do instead of going to court to argue for unemployment.
2014-03-02 07:01:57 PM  
1 votes:
No way you are going to win that case if you don't at least try the commute!
2014-03-02 07:00:10 PM  
1 votes:

mbillips: Yup. You quit your job, no unemployment. You have to get laid off.


WOOHOO! Trolltastic, badly worded headline catches first sucker!
2014-03-02 06:57:16 PM  
1 votes:

Bonzo_1116: A 35 mile commute for a job that pays $11.48/hr?

Brutal.


I worked a temp gig for six months that paid only $14 an hour after training (@$10 an hour), and had to drive 46 miles each way to the other end of the county to get there. In a 15 year old car with 200K+ really really hard miles on it. Took me more than two hours a day to commute. Where I work now I still have to drive 23 miles each way, but they pay me $70k a year and it's in a new (lease returned) car.
2014-03-02 06:55:23 PM  
1 votes:
She is also a realtor for horse farms, so her commissions on that must make her bank, she must work at the schools for the benefits.
2014-03-02 06:54:28 PM  
1 votes:
I currently drive 30 miles each way to work.  But I get paid a heck of a lot more than $11 / hr.


tripleseven: Although, three days later he called me and begged me to consult for him.


Which, if I'm not mistaken, means he doesn't have to pay payroll taxes or benefits.
2014-03-02 06:54:15 PM  
1 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer: In before the idiots flood this thread to suggest that she should have moved closer to work.


I will not make that suggestion, she just should of had her chauffeur get up earlier.
2014-03-02 06:54:09 PM  
1 votes:

Bonzo_1116: A 35 mile commute for a job that pays $11.48/hr?

Brutal.


Yeah, in the end she's taking home around $7 an hour. At that rate, she might as well get a job at Walmart (or wherever) and earn more than that with a shorter commute.

And that figure isn't even considering the wear and tear and upkeep of her vehicle. I drive up to 120 miles on some days, but travel is part of my job and I get reimbursed for time and mileage. She wasn't getting jack, so yeah, she did the right thing by quitting.
2014-03-02 06:48:05 PM  
1 votes:

Tillmaster: The US system is broken.


Any system that doesn't allow for an unwillingness to work within a 50 mile radius of Philadelphia is, by nature, a broken system.
 
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