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(PennLive)   "Sorry ma'am, you can't get unemployment because you quit your job because you didn't want to drive 35 miles to work. Deal with it"   (pennlive.com ) divider line
    More: Dumbass, senior judge, sufficient reason  
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12330 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Mar 2014 at 6:44 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-02 07:30:49 PM  

Tillmaster: The US system is broken.


I'd love to rant about all the examples my payroll company has from all the clients we do payroll for, in order to back that up in ways you might not agree with related to this article.

However the last time I did that on fark, somehow it got back to the client I ranted about at the time and in turn to my company.  That leetle privacy agreement we all sign is supposed to be ironclad. oops.
 
2014-03-02 07:31:08 PM  

tripleseven: A boss actually said to me "I will not lay you off, I will make you quit. There's no way I am paying unemployment for you"  And yes, he then proceeded to try everything to make me quit.  And I eventually did.  Although, three days later he called me and begged me to consult for him.

Yes, the American system is broken.


You should have tried doing as little as possible. Lets face it, two can play your old bosses little game.
 
2014-03-02 07:31:24 PM  

Bonzo_1116: A 35 mile commute for a job that pays $11.48/hr?

Brutal.


My division of the company I worked for was sold off not too long ago to a competitor, and they had two equally shiatty offices you could choose to work for if they offered you a job, both around 34-36 miles away from our old office.... which was a whole 4 minutes from my house. If they offered you a job in the new company and you didn't take it then you got no severance, no unemployment, no nothing as the federal guidelines are anything under 50 miles and you either take it or go get farked.

The difficulty? This is the DC metro area we're talking about, and those 35 miles are through some of the most brutal traffic in the country. 35 miles here isn't the same commute as 35 miles in Bumfark Kansas (it's a lovely place I hear). I was offered a job, and took it and now I have a commute which, round trip, is anywhere from 2+ hours a day when it's perfect to 5 hours a day when it's bad. It's not fun (doesn't help that my car is stick either), and it DOES beat the hell up out of your car and since it's travel to your job site you don't get reimbursed or compensated for that mileage. They offered me the same pay I was making before so between tolls, gas, time and extra repairs (which have been substantial) it has been a significant reduction in both income and quality of life.

The most galling part is that the wife and I moved to where we live specifically to be closer to work, and my wife works just blocks from our house. We also got a great deal and are really settled in, so we're not moving anywhere. I'm currently looking for a new job, but the job market SUCKS BIG TIME.

They could at least make the federal distance regulation a regional thing...
 
2014-03-02 07:32:42 PM  

optikeye: So, she'll go on food stamps and welfare and we'll pay for it. And all the money she paid into a UI goes bye bye...but the employer gets a refund for their share.

The US is farked up.



It is, and if you want to know why a lot of it has to do with idiots like the one who posted just after you.
 
2014-03-02 07:34:00 PM  
Even though it's a tough nut that she would have to drive much further to work, she still would have made more by doing that than by taking unemployment.  She makes about $460/wk and after taxes and gas costs she'd net around 320 a week plus benefits whereas unemployment would only pay about $230/wk.  And unemployment is only temporary whereas the job could be assumed to last a lot longer.

Yet, even given that, she clearly was fine with getting $230/wk to sit on her ass and do nothing.  She had choices and she chose the worst out of all of it...which makes her an idiot.  She could have kept the job until she found something closer to home that she liked better and then quit the one job.  But she didn't.  Dumbass.  I don't feel sorry for her in the least.
 
2014-03-02 07:34:15 PM  

AUAIOMRN: mbillips: Yup. You quit your job, no unemployment. You have to get laid off.


So refusing to be transferred 35 miles away is now "quitting"? Especially for a $11 an hour job?


A transfer with a half-hour commute definitely falls under a reasonable attempt at accommodation by the employer as an alternative to just canning her.  I'd say it's plenty to void unemployment insurance, at least the UI the employer's funding.

State-funded UI is dodgier, personally I'd vote that any state-funded UI program err much more on the side of paying out, and would say this is enough of a gray area they should probably just list her for at least short-term payout.
 
2014-03-02 07:34:29 PM  

tripleseven: A boss actually said to me "I will not lay you off, I will make you quit. There's no way I am paying unemployment for you"  And yes, he then proceeded to try everything to make me quit.  And I eventually did.  Although, three days later he called me and begged me to consult for him.

Yes, the American system is broken.


One of those times you just wish you had a tape recorder handy.
 
2014-03-02 07:34:49 PM  

StopLurkListen: .....The punchline? The employer gets a refund of everything they contributed to their share of the unemployment that they paid. Not so much for workers. Workers NEVER get a refund.


Yeah, about that. In AZ I never saw any refund for employees who were denied unemployment. It's a pool the employer doesn't drink from.
At least that is my experience.
-------

She should have told her boss "I deny the transfer" and kept showing up for work until they fired her.
There are some jobs though, a transfer should be expected, but not expect a teaching job to do so, unless it was the sex stuff.
 
2014-03-02 07:35:13 PM  
Some of you are assuming that working hard and sucking up the commute will somehow translate into her getting ahead.

She is a teacher's aide. She will never get a promotion, or a large pay raise, unless she went and completed whatever credentials needed to obtain a teaching certificate. If she wanted retirement she would have to work another 15 years minimum anticipating maybe 15 or 20 cent hourly raises each year.
 
2014-03-02 07:37:13 PM  

Jim_Callahan: A transfer with a half-hour commute definitely falls under a reasonable attempt at accommodation by the employer as an alternative to just canning her.  I'd say it's plenty to void unemployment insurance, at least the UI the employer's funding.


The major issue being she is a teacher, and schools swell and stagnate and decline and there are all matters of funding changes which occur which cause teacher positions to switch and some teacher positions to be prioritized; a half-hour commute seems reasonable based on what closed in one area and opened in another.
 
2014-03-02 07:37:23 PM  
Lightweight. I drive  47.6 miles one way.

I get it done in one hour with moderate speeding.  I do get paid more though.

2012 Ford Focus just past 28k miles.
 
2014-03-02 07:38:58 PM  

powhound: Some of you are assuming that working hard and sucking up the commute will somehow translate into her getting ahead.

She is a teacher's aide. She will never get a promotion, or a large pay raise, unless she went and completed whatever credentials needed to obtain a teaching certificate. If she wanted retirement she would have to work another 15 years minimum anticipating maybe 15 or 20 cent hourly raises each year.


That's not the only way to get ahead.  Having a job (instead of a blank space) on her resume will make it 1000x easier for her to find another job, either a better one or one closer to home.
 
2014-03-02 07:41:10 PM  

teenage mutant ninja rapist: You should have tried doing as little as possible. Lets face it, two can play your old bosses little game.


Then they get fired for cause, which is just as good for the employer's purposes as them quitting, in terms of having to pay out on UI. Really, better even, since the employer can now dump you on his terms instead of dealing with the unknown of the employee's resolve.
 
2014-03-02 07:41:37 PM  
I wonder how long she was commuting before.
 
2014-03-02 07:45:28 PM  

The hopeless imp: PA also takes a "right to work tax" out of your paycheck. This is in addition to the state income tax. And then Pottstown most likely (being a shiathole town with a school in PA) has a local income tax. She'd be lucky to clear $50 a day.
On the other hand, you simply cannot quit your job in PA and expect to get unemployment. Even if it's due to a hostile work environment. PA views unemployment as strictly being for lay offs.



Clearing $50 a day is probably half of S Central Pa.

If you quit your job.... you better get off your ass and go find another.    Not apply for unemployment.

Dumbass tag appropriate for dumbass teacher.
 
2014-03-02 07:48:26 PM  

powhound: Some of you are assuming that working hard and sucking up the commute will somehow translate into her getting ahead.

She is a teacher's aide. She will never get a promotion, or a large pay raise, unless she went and completed whatever credentials needed to obtain a teaching certificate. If she wanted retirement she would have to work another 15 years minimum anticipating maybe 15 or 20 cent hourly raises each year.


No one's saying it will get her ahead, we're saying she has the option to  stay employed, probably while looking for another job, but still.  Unemployment insurance is for people that  lose their job, not people who think it's a dead end or get fed up with what's being asked of them and quit.

I mean, if there was some malice involved, like the employer was intentionally setting up untenable options to purposefully try to make people quit, that'd be a different thing (and I assume that's what she was alleging... kind of ridiculously, since school closings aren't really based on consolidations usually).  But basically she had the option to keep bringing in a paycheck while looking for a new job, and she chose not to do so.

She can't even really claim that the job continuance offers weren't legitimate because of the commute... the sheer empirical evidence of millions of Americans with a half-hour commute to a shiatty job that do it without incident sort of strikes that one down fast.
 
2014-03-02 07:49:40 PM  
Live out in the Shenandoah Valley.  Everyone here drives to "downtown' or 'down the country' towards DC.  35 miles isn't too bad.  And was she receiving any kind of employer benefits?  Insurance, PTO, etc.
 
2014-03-02 07:54:01 PM  
It wasn't her primary job....she's a 'high-end' real estate agent. No sympathy for her at all...complaining about driving is Pennsylvania is ridiculous as it's mostly highway driving everywhere. Have driven from North Jersey to Pottstown on many occasions.
 
2014-03-02 08:04:43 PM  

majestic: optikeye: So, she'll go on food stamps and welfare and we'll pay for it. And all the money she paid into a UI goes bye bye...but the employer gets a refund for their share.

The US is farked up.

Employees don't pay into unemployment as a direct payroll deduction.


That is correct. The employer is responsible for FUTA (federal) and SUTA/SUI (state) unemployment taxes. The state portion can get extremely complex when your employees work multiple jobs in many states throughout the year.

I suppose the effect of paying these liabilities is reflected in the employees wage, though an employee never pays for unemployment directly.
 
2014-03-02 08:06:06 PM  
BadMotivator
2014-03-02 06:47:07 PM


Turns out the Republicans were right. We need to deregulate the streets.

Liberal state, liberal school system... quick, blame republicans!
 
2014-03-02 08:10:09 PM  

cwolf20: Tillmaster: The US system is broken.

I'd love to rant about all the examples my payroll company has from all the clients we do payroll for, in order to back that up in ways you might not agree with related to this article.

However the last time I did that on fark, somehow it got back to the client I ranted about at the time and in turn to my company.  That leetle privacy agreement we all sign is supposed to be ironclad. oops.


In a way, good. I would rather see actual data. Any of us could pretend to have some sort of inside information.
 
2014-03-02 08:12:57 PM  

theflatline: optikeye: So, she'll go on food stamps and welfare and we'll pay for it. And all the money she paid into a UI goes bye bye...but the employer gets a refund for their share.

The US is farked up.

It is.

She is a realtor for high end properties who doesnt use her commissions to pay for insurance, so she teaches school for low pay while enjoying the insurance benefits year around while she does her real job.

I have a neighbor here in Florida who does the same thing.  She lives in a 3 million dollar house, sells property and teaches school.

She recently tried to have teachers strike because of a benefit cut for those who work less than 20 hours a week(which she does) but god forbid she just paid for it out of her pocket.  She was over at my house recently bragging about a 75k commission she just made on a property.


Or, before ACA, she or a family member was considered uninsurable. Didn't matter how much you were willing to pay, proper insurance was not available for many.
 
2014-03-02 08:17:22 PM  
Prior to 1992 very few workers drove more than 15 to20 miles for good paying jobs. In 92 your government knuckled under to big buisness and signed NAFTA into law. this was a green light for buisness to send jobs south of the border where workers would work for $1.15/hr. They also eliminated taxwes on imports so that American companies could send materials to places like Mexico, and assemble the products and bring them back with no taxes. So I guess we all know where the local jobs went and why every one has to drive 40 miles for low wages
 
2014-03-02 08:20:47 PM  

Saluki222: Is the dumbass the woman?  Looks like the judge made a simple decision based on current law and existing precedent.


Well the dumbasses would be the Farkers who didn't read the rest of the article:

Keim "did not try commuting to the new location for even a single day," Colins noted, nor did she check out the possibility of carpooling or using public transportation. So, he wrote, she failed to show that her supposed commuting difficulties were "insurmountable."
And, the judge noted, her former employer did offer to be flexible about her schedule, given the longer drive.


So basically, this woman saw she would be doing a 35-mile commute and immediately quit & filed for unemployment. Sorry, honey, I am willing to be sympathetic; but you do at least have to TRY to show that 35 miles is just inhumanly impossible for one woman to bear before you try for unemployment.

Would it have been too much trouble to check that nobody could carpool with you and there wasn't a bus stop nearby?
 
2014-03-02 08:29:48 PM  

Jim_Callahan: A transfer with a half-hour commute definitely falls under a reasonable attempt at accommodation by the employer as an alternative to just canning her.  I'd say it's plenty to void unemployment insurance, at least the UI the employer's funding.


In what universe is 35 miles a 30 minute commute? San Francisco is 7 miles across but it takes 45 minutes to get from the Sunset to the Embarcadero at 7:00 am.
 
2014-03-02 08:31:39 PM  
I can't imagine commuting more than 5 miles to work (at least, regularly), much less the sums of numbers you guys are talking about. All this "suck it up, that's how it is" is pretty false. Is it impossible to move? Or find a different job? I think some of you just like getting farked in the ass...
 
2014-03-02 08:33:55 PM  
This woman should be embarrassed for even applying for unemployment.

Get it together and find another job,  don't go on the public dole.
 
2014-03-02 08:35:37 PM  

Bonzo_1116: A 35 mile commute for a job that pays $11.48/hr?

Brutal.


That's not even worth the commute, but it was completely stupid to apply for unemployment after quitting.
 
2014-03-02 08:35:59 PM  

proteus_b: I can't imagine commuting more than 5 miles to work (at least, regularly), much less the sums of numbers you guys are talking about. All this "suck it up, that's how it is" is pretty false. Is it impossible to move? Or find a different job? I think some of you just like getting farked in the ass...


Yes, often it is impossible to move.
Yes, it is often impossible to find a different job. Where have you been the past 15 years?

However, 35 miles commute is about typical for a lot of people, it's a bit far for such a low-paying job, but it's not unconscionable. I know people who do that routinely.
 
2014-03-02 08:36:41 PM  
68 Miles each way in an old jeep with +200K miles. my worlds tiniest fiddle...let me play ut for you
 
2014-03-02 08:37:02 PM  

Cyclometh: So, let's consider this in other terms.

At $11.48 an hour, that is about $98 a day gross. Say you knock 20% off for taxes, Social Security, all that stuff. That leaves about $74

If she drives a car that gets the US average of 20 miles per gallon, that's about 3.5 gallons a day for a 70-mile round trip commute. So at the average price of gas in Pottstown, PA, that's $12.50 a day in gasoline.

So a 35-mile commute takes her take-home pay from $74 to $61.

In conclusion, her commute costs would amount to about 20% of her pay.


Unless she uses the $61 a day to build a teleportation device that runs on cheap renewable energy.

Profit!
 
2014-03-02 08:38:53 PM  
Bill Bryson once postulated it would take 14 hours for a stone-age adult (14-30 y/o) male to hunt up enough meat to feed his whole family... for A WEEK.
Taken together with the other young hunters, and divvied up amongst the community, 1 solid kill would garner enough leftovers to feed the widows/orphans/elderly/infirm.
The rest of the time (after building your hut or igloo or tree-fort) would be spent farking under the moonlight...

I'm not an idiot. I don't advocate "going off the grid"

All I'm saying is this:

Somewhere, Someone you've never met is gobbling up your extra 26 hours of labor per week. And though you work hard for a living, HE never really has had to.
YOUR piss smells of cheap vodka and 'chiken-flavored' ramen noodles, while HIS soft, fleshy hands smell of almas caviar, fine champagne, and perfumed toilet paper.

We're all a bunch of suckers.
 
2014-03-02 08:41:23 PM  

Jim_Callahan: I'd say it's plenty to void unemployment insurance, at least the UI the employer's funding.


"Diamond Jim"Callahan in the house, people.
 
2014-03-02 08:42:19 PM  

Silentbob768768: 68 Miles each way in an old jeep with +200K miles. my worlds tiniest fiddle...let me play ut for you


How long does your commute take each way? I'd love to calculate how much of the only life you're ever going to have that you're spending sitting in traffic.
 
2014-03-02 08:43:19 PM  

TsarTom: Bill Bryson once postulated it would take 14 hours for a stone-age adult (14-30 y/o) male to hunt up enough meat to feed his whole family... for A WEEK.
Taken together with the other young hunters, and divvied up amongst the community, 1 solid kill would garner enough leftovers to feed the widows/orphans/elderly/infirm.
The rest of the time (after building your hut or igloo or tree-fort) would be spent farking under the moonlight...

I'm not an idiot. I don't advocate "going off the grid"

All I'm saying is this:

Somewhere, Someone you've never met is gobbling up your extra 26 hours of labor per week. And though you work hard for a living, HE never really has had to.
YOUR piss smells of cheap vodka and 'chiken-flavored' ramen noodles, while HIS soft, fleshy hands smell of almas caviar, fine champagne, and perfumed toilet paper.

We're all a bunch of suckers.


Mrs. Thrag in this scenario spent up to thirty hours a week digging and prepping roots for supper for the days when Mr. Thrag was unlucky.

It's still loads less work than now.

/Agriculture was the downfall of leisure.
 
2014-03-02 08:44:28 PM  

Silentbob768768: 68 Miles each way in an old jeep with +200K miles. my worlds tiniest fiddle...let me play ut for you


With a cavalier attitude like that, I hope gas prices go up. A lot.
 
2014-03-02 08:45:16 PM  

Dwindle: Tillmaster: The US system is broken.

Yeah, we need a system like European teachers who ride an hour on a bus each way going half as many miles for half the wages and double the taxes.


You need teachers that will teach you differences between a country and a continent.

What are you talking about, Moldova or Switzerland?
 
2014-03-02 08:45:47 PM  

toadist: This woman should be embarrassed for even applying for unemployment.

Get it together and find another job,  don't go on the public dole.


So let's just give employers even more power than they have right now, k?

It's always the worker's fault.
 
2014-03-02 08:52:33 PM  
Yes!
 
2014-03-02 08:57:15 PM  

whidbey: toadist: This woman should be embarrassed for even applying for unemployment.

Get it together and find another job,  don't go on the public dole.

So let's just give employers even more power than they have right now, k?

It's always the worker's fault.


What? No rah-rah capitalism, go fark the worker drones over for as little as we can get away with paying them for you?!

What are you? A human being or something?
 
2014-03-02 08:57:36 PM  

Cyclometh: So, let's consider this in other terms.

At $11.48 an hour, that is about $98 a day gross. Say you knock 20% off for taxes, Social Security, all that stuff. That leaves about $74

If she drives a car that gets the US average of 20 miles per gallon, that's about 3.5 gallons a day for a 70-mile round trip commute. So at the average price of gas in Pottstown, PA, that's $12.50 a day in gasoline.

So a 35-mile commute takes her take-home pay from $74 to $61.

In conclusion, her commute costs would amount to about 20% of her pay.



But now that she quit instead of trying to work it out, she makes $0 for being a lazy biatch.

/your math sucks
 
2014-03-02 09:00:01 PM  
45 miles each way every work day for 5 months.  And the travel time was less than when I was working in downtown Boston, even though it was half the miles.

Now I only go in twice a week.

/employer gave me $$$ per month to cover travel costs
//sucked then, really nice now
 
2014-03-02 09:00:18 PM  

tripleseven: A boss actually said to me "I will not lay you off, I will make you quit. There's no way I am paying unemployment for you"  And yes, he then proceeded to try everything to make me quit.  And I eventually did.  Although, three days later he called me and begged me to consult for him.

Yes, the American system is broken.


I think I'd like to hear your boss's side of things before I indict my entire country.
 
2014-03-02 09:01:35 PM  

BluVeinThrobber: Wake up America, your goveernment and big business has sold all of your jobs down the river to the lowest bidder


Always nice to see a liberal/populist who is for curbing immigration and is anti-amnesty.
 
2014-03-02 09:01:42 PM  

The more you eat the more you fart: whidbey: toadist: This woman should be embarrassed for even applying for unemployment.

Get it together and find another job,  don't go on the public dole.

So let's just give employers even more power than they have right now, k?

It's always the worker's fault.

What? No rah-rah capitalism, go fark the worker drones over for as little as we can get away with paying them for you?!

What are you? A human being or something?


Just hedging my bets until that big Koch Bros automatic deposit comes through.
 
2014-03-02 09:02:19 PM  

Bonzo_1116: TsarTom:

Mrs. Thrag in this scenario spent up to thirty hours a week digging and prepping roots for supper for the days when Mr. Thrag was unlucky.

It's still loads less work than now.


you've got a better job then me.
 
2014-03-02 09:04:47 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Where have you been the past 15 years?


Got it actually listed in my profile, if you cared. I guess it depends what point in life you are at, but I'd consider moving if such a compelling job existed that far from my home.
 
2014-03-02 09:05:33 PM  
35 mile drive for 11 bucks an hour? Nope, I wouldn't do it either.
 
2014-03-02 09:07:19 PM  
^than.

sorry to the regular folks. Need to stop the nazis from descending
 
2014-03-02 09:08:03 PM  
As someone who routinely commutes a 70 mile round trip though LA TRAFFIC for a teaching job, I have little sympathy.

When you have done a 35 mile leg that took over 3 hours due to a freeway closure, and pee was ready to start flowing out of your ears, then maybe I will have some sympathy. But even then, it is unlikely.
 
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