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(NBC News)   Russian forces have disappeared from Simferopol, huge pro-Russian crowds are no longer present, and the Crimean peninsula returns to normal. Can we stop waxing the tadpole about WWIII now?   (nbcnews.com ) divider line
    More: Followup, Russian forces, peninsula  
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11194 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Mar 2014 at 6:39 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-02 09:18:39 AM  

Wake Up Sheeple: In before chickenhawks.


Apparently, got here after the pro military dictatorship crowd.
 
2014-03-02 09:20:27 AM  

lack of warmth: jamspoon: Crimea was part of Russia until the Communists gave it to Ukraine as part of 300 year celebrations in 1954. It's population is more Russian than Ukrainian and the Russians still have major military facilities there. So it's not like the Russians are invading "foreign" country like say, Iraq.

From what I am hearing, Crimea wanted to return to Russia, or at least the folks that chased their president out.  Seems like their old president is the only one still complaining.  Well, when your people chase you out of the country, consider yourself impeached, and the US and everyone else should stop paying attention to him.  I get that the US wants their puppet, but they need to realize they don't always get their puppets.


Was reading up about the former PM just released from prison. The article implied she was the victim of "selective" justice. So guilty, but others got away with it. Those in power prosecute their predecessors for corruption then do the same themselves while the economy goes to the dogs.
 
2014-03-02 09:22:11 AM  

lack of warmth: jamspoon: Crimea was part of Russia until the Communists gave it to Ukraine as part of 300 year celebrations in 1954. It's population is more Russian than Ukrainian and the Russians still have major military facilities there. So it's not like the Russians are invading "foreign" country like say, Iraq.

From what I am hearing, Crimea wanted to return to Russia, or at least the folks that chased their president out.  Seems like their old president is the only one still complaining.  Well, when your people chase you out of the country, consider yourself impeached, and the US and everyone else should stop paying attention to him.  I get that the US wants their puppet, but they need to realize they don't always get their puppets.


You are uninformed. When the people chased the current pres out it was because they wanted closer ties to the EU that's why the former pres ran to Russia.

Don't be an idiot.
 
2014-03-02 09:23:31 AM  
They were invited! Punch was served! Check with Sevastopol!
 
2014-03-02 09:26:26 AM  

jakomo002: Animatronik: jakomo002: Animatronik: Ukraine does not have to be part of either the EU or Russia. But if you are faced with the choice of either austerity or defaulting on debt, it's not a matter of what the EU will do for you, it's a matter of how to continue to function without runaway inflation and no money to pay for infrastructure.

Well said, but that's nowhere near to how the media (specifically U.S.) is treating it.  And the EU makes MONEY on Ukraine's IMF-imposed austerity.  Ukraine becomes a cheap market for foreign companies to flood.

And Russia has seen too many of her former satellites go over to the West (or even NATO), despite assurances after the USSR dissolved by the West that they would never.

Russia's former satellites are FORMER satellites. It's not clear that Russian speaking Ukrainians want to be part of Russia or simply to maintain close ties. If Russia gets into a military conflict in Ukraine, everyone will assume correctly that it's a land grab.

If Russia actually believed that there was never a chance that some of it's allies would seek a NATO or EU alliance, that's just foolishness .

Except their former satellites were actively and aggressively recruited into NATO by the West.
I mean, how is it that  ALL these countries suddenly get membership into NATO between 1999 and 2004?  The NORTH ATLANTIC Treaty Organization.

Czech Republic  Warsaw Pact 1955-1991
 Hungary Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1991.
 Poland Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1990.
 Bulgaria Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1991.
 Estonia Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1991
 Latvia Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1991
 Lithuania Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1991
 Romania Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1991.
 Slovakia Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1991 as part of Czechoslovakia.
 Slovenia Previously part of Yugoslavia 1945-1991 (Non-aligned)


Nobody believes that the Warsaw Pact was a real pact, any more than they believe that DPRK is a real republic, or that the Duma in Russia actually votes their own minds instead of Putin's.

I'm not sure why you think any country would choose being a part of Russia without a gun to their collective head, since it has been taken over by bullies and autocrats led by Putin.

And if Putin waves a gun at them they will run to Europe. If Putin invades Ukraine proper it will give western powers the excuse they need to move soldiers into former satellite states at their request, which in turn will lead Russia to increase military spending, and this will be like the Cold War.
 
2014-03-02 09:29:37 AM  
Jeez, what's with all the Russian apologists here? Russia has invaded Ukraine's sovereignty, an action in violation of a few treaties. The fact that you can spin the facts and claim that it is "to protect" Russian speaking population is irrelevent. Crimea is not part of Russia, and the population are not Russian citizens despite the sudden availability of Russian passports. Russian speaking people were not under any direct threat either, there were some flare ups, but certainly nothing to justify the tanks moving in.

Whether Russia recognizes the new gov't in Kyiv is irrelevent too. Yanukovych was removed democratically, even his own party abandoned him. He is no longer the President of Ukraine and in fact, should be on a flight to Switzerland to face charges of mass murder.

And the east-west split in Ukraine is not as simple any more so stop thinking the East would welcome Putin. They may speak Russian in the East but they, for the most part, do not want to be part of Russia. The East was well represented both at Maidan and in regional protests.

Now, what to do? Options are limited. I think Putin is trying to antagonize the Ukrainians into firing the first shot, then he can hit hard. The fact that there wasn't some knee-jerk reaction from Ukraine probably surprised him and now he's left a bit exposed diplomatically. US troops-probably not good. NATO? Maybe send some observers or try to secure air space but not boots on the ground. Best short term option may be to do nothing but keep calm. Economic sanctions against Russia, pulling out of G8 and stopping investments in Russia, a NATO "presence" are doable options, I think.

Best course would be to continue to work with Ukraine's new gov't to stabilize the economic situation. That needs to be the first step, the uncertainty in the country now is everyone's enemy and Putin's best friend.
 
2014-03-02 09:29:38 AM  
Out where I live here in Norcal, many of the local evangelical churches are soooooo hoping this is the start of WWIII, which will in turn hasten the coming of the rapture so they can all be with Jesus.

These people scare the shiat out of me.
 
2014-03-02 09:30:19 AM  
The Russians are just waiting for their killer bee reinforcements.

img.fark.net
 
2014-03-02 09:30:24 AM  

Parthenogenetic: Mr. Coffee Nerves: At a family function last night my aunt suggested the best way to fix all this would be for us to threaten to nuke everyone involved unless Putin and "the Ukraine president" agreed to a summit at a neutral site -- Wasilla, Alaska -- under the watchful diplomatic wink of America's finest expert on international politics, you betcha.

Yep, it's not even 7:30AM EST and you've already heard the stupidest thing you'll hear all day long.

Are you aware of the "Sarah Palin predicted this six years ago and you libtards mocked her for it!" talking point currently circulating?

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2014/02/28/palin-on-ukraine-i-t ol d-you-so/


Yeah, naming a country at random in a bit of political hyperbole doesn't make her Nostradamus or Jack Ryan. It's like saying someone's cursed for walking under a ladder and them saying "aha!" when they lose their job three years on.

Applying Spalin quotes are the equivalent of cowflop bingo with a diuretic Bessie. So much shiat is getting spewed, eventually something is gonna land in a winning square. But that's not a sign of intelligence on the part of either, and I'm certainly not bronzing it for the mantelpiece.
 
2014-03-02 09:31:50 AM  

the_end_is_rear: Out where I live here in Norcal, many of the local evangelical churches are soooooo hoping this is the start of WWIII, which will in turn hasten the coming of the rapture so they can all be with Jesus.

These people scare the shiat out of me.


Where in norcal? I used to live there and never met people like that.  Did you go talk to them or something?
 
2014-03-02 09:36:57 AM  

jakomo002: czetie: But let me turn the question around: why do YOU think all those countries rejected the Warsaw Pact and joined NATO the moment they had a free choice?

Because the Warsaw Pact disbanded  25 February 1991, and joining NATO meant if Russia ever tried to roll back in, they were a member and would get protection.  Sort of like paying the Mob for protection.

Because all these former satellites were poor, had very bad militaries and were terrified of Russian plans, so they became junior members of NATO.  Not exactly free choice.

Note that none joined immediately, some as late as 2004


Your last point would indicate that a lot of these "terrified" countries didn't see a need for NATO protection for up to 13 years. One might almost think they'd made a mature, considered decision after viewing and perhaps even trying out various alternatives.
 
2014-03-02 09:38:36 AM  
In the Conservative bastion of Placer County.
We have a few mega evangelical churches here.
I have relatives that attend one.
They are so hoping this is the big one.

Me, I am the agnostic liberal black sheep of the family.
 
2014-03-02 09:41:17 AM  
Rhino_man:
Thanks for making a foe where there wasn't one before, Romney. Good farkin' job.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!  That was funny.  Yes, Putin, the former KGB op and mob boss, was a Russian Pope Francis and general good buddy to the Free World before Mitt Romney hurt his feelings.

Go back to Theodore Roosevelt and the end of the Russian-Japanese war.  Russians have not particularly had warm feelings about America or its intentions towards them for at least 110 years now. Probably didn't help when we invaded in 1919, considering Americans are still carrying paper on the English for burning down the White House in 1812.
 
2014-03-02 09:41:38 AM  
We need to throw Russia out of the G8 immediately and invite Brazil to take it's place.
 
2014-03-02 09:44:20 AM  

Rhino_man: utah dude: don't worry, Russia's not a threat according to BlackJesus. HeavenForbid RichMormon had something to say about this months ago,

MR. ROMNEY: Excuse me. It's a geopolitical foe. And I said in the same - in the same paragraph, I said, and Iran is the greatest national security threat we face. Russia does continue to battle us in the U.N. time and time again. I have clear eyes on this. I'm not going to wear rose-colored glasses when it comes to Russia or Mr. Putin, and I'm certainly not going to say to him, I'll give you more flexibility after the election. After the election he'll get more backbone.

... and after that comment, Putin stepped up his sabre-rattling because he suddenly realized that 47% of voting Americans agreed with a guy who wanted to wave his dick at Russia on TV.

Thanks for making a foe where there wasn't one before, Romney. Good farkin' job.


This. As I said in the previous Crimea thread, perhaps Obama saw the threat just as clearly as Mittens, but was smart enough to prevent limiting our diplomatic options by not making an open enemy of Putin.
You know, not hamstringing a decade of national policy for a couple of temporary poll points. Thinking presidentially, one might say.
 
2014-03-02 09:45:55 AM  

utah dude: Rhino_man: utah dude: don't worry, Russia's not a threat according to BlackJesus. HeavenForbid RichMormon had something to say about this months ago,

MR. ROMNEY: Excuse me. It's a geopolitical foe. And I said in the same - in the same paragraph, I said, and Iran is the greatest national security threat we face. Russia does continue to battle us in the U.N. time and time again. I have clear eyes on this. I'm not going to wear rose-colored glasses when it comes to Russia or Mr. Putin, and I'm certainly not going to say to him, I'll give you more flexibility after the election. After the election he'll get more backbone.

... and after that comment, Putin stepped up his sabre-rattling because he suddenly realized that 47% of voting Americans agreed with a guy who wanted to wave his dick at Russia on TV.

Thanks for making a foe where there wasn't one before, Romney. Good farkin' job.

of course BlackJesus is the only begotten sent free of sin to save us all. of course. drop me a phat bassline for some dance competition, brother.


Yay, you really suck at trolling!
 
2014-03-02 09:46:26 AM  
 I would call this a Volga display of power by Putin..


 It would be no different than the U.S. taking advantage of a political crisis to take over Costa Rica, simply because there are a lot of Anglo people living there.
 
2014-03-02 09:48:27 AM  

Mr. Shabooboo: I would call this a Volga display of power by Putin..


 It would be no different than the U.S. taking advantage of a political crisis to take over Costa Rica, simply because there are a lot of Anglo people living there.


It would be more like the US taking over Ontario from Canada
 
2014-03-02 09:48:37 AM  

jakomo002: czetie: However, only one country involved here has tanks and troops openly operating in another country's sovereign territory; and I'm still fascinated to hear how you intend to justify military force as the appropriate way to resolve a political and economic dispute?

Justify military force?  I wasn't aware the Russian troops had attacked or even wounded anyone.  It's a show of force, hardly the application of it.  And the Crimea PM (PM of the AUTONOMOUS REGION OF CRIMEA) did in fact invite the Russians in, no??

The irony here is that it's precisely Russia's bullying, racist, nationalist, militaristic, censorious descent into near-dictatorship that is pushing the countries of central Europe into the arms of Europe. (And incidentally, several of them have centuries of ties with Europe long before they spent 50 years in the freezer of the Cold War.)

Completely agree.  And the EU/IMF clusterfarks in Spain, Greece, Latvia, etc, make Ukraine very wary to trust either the EU, or anyone who supports IMF policies.  Lot of distrust on both sides, and justifiably


Those countries should start their own economic union... With blackjack! And hookers!
 
2014-03-02 09:52:18 AM  

AngryDragon: Mr. Shabooboo: I would call this a Volga display of power by Putin..


 It would be no different than the U.S. taking advantage of a political crisis to take over Costa Rica, simply because there are a lot of Anglo people living there.

It would be more like the US taking over Ontario from Canada


So long as the US gets the Leafs and Canada has to retain the Senators.
 
2014-03-02 09:52:47 AM  
Question for those who know more than me: why not just let Crimea "rejoin" Russia? Wouldn't that be better than all out war between Ukraine and Russia?
 
2014-03-02 09:54:15 AM  

Rhino_man: czetie: Rhino_man: czetie: hobbes0022: This doesn't even feel real, major modern countries like Russia still invade their neighbors?  They didn't even call them an axis of evil.

If Putin insists that sending troops into another country is "legitimately protecting Russia's interests" just because some of them are ethnically Russian, then I have a horrible feeling that we're all about to learn the Russian words for "Lebensraum" and "Volksdeutsche".

Also noteworthy that Putin doesn't feel at all the same way about ethnic non-Russians who want to break away from Russia...

Farking THIS.  The whole thing has just been echoes of "DANZIG IST DEUTSCHE" to me.

I was thinking more of the Sudetenland, but yeah, Danzig works too.

Danzig has fewer characters, making it more twitter friendly.


Danzig's songs are a lot catchier, too.
 
2014-03-02 09:55:15 AM  

lack of warmth: jamspoon: Crimea was part of Russia until the Communists gave it to Ukraine as part of 300 year celebrations in 1954. It's population is more Russian than Ukrainian and the Russians still have major military facilities there. So it's not like the Russians are invading "foreign" country like say, Iraq.

From what I am hearing, Crimea wanted to return to Russia, or at least the folks that chased their president out.  Seems like their old president is the only one still complaining.  Well, when your people chase you out of the country, consider yourself impeached, and the US and everyone else should stop paying attention to him.  I get that the US wants their puppet, but they need to realize they don't always get their puppets.


I just don't know the history of Crimea well, so I can't take a position on this. But others have commented that Russia packed the Crimea with ethnic Russians in the same way that GB packed northern Ireland with loyal Protestants and then pointed to "majority Irish" desire for continued UK rule in the six counties.

An odd case where a thing may be both factually true and wrong at the same time.
 
2014-03-02 09:55:23 AM  
FTA:

Twelve military trucks carrying troops, a Tiger vehicle armed with a machine gun and two ambulances were seen by Associated Press journalists on the road heading from Sevastopol - the Crimean port where Russia has its naval base - to Simferopol.

www.squidmobile.com

Man, the Russian army really is behind the times now.
 
2014-03-02 09:56:10 AM  

organizmx: Question for those who know more than me: why not just let Crimea "rejoin" Russia? Wouldn't that be better than all out war between Ukraine and Russia?


From my limited understanding, the people wanting to "rejoin" are like when Saddam invaded Kuwait to "liberate" them and the people proclaiming they wanted to rejoin are just puppets. Same kinda thing here. The only people who want to rejoin Russia are just talking puppets for Russia, and the Ukrainians who don't want to aren't being allowed to speak.
 
2014-03-02 09:57:36 AM  

parkerlewis: Wait a minute...Russia has INVISIBLE soldiers???  We are screwed!!!


No, no, you just lure them into water to short-circuit their cloaking.  And smear some mud on you to defeat their infrared.  Easy-peasy.
 
2014-03-02 09:57:39 AM  

brimed03: Rhino_man: utah dude: don't worry, Russia's not a threat according to BlackJesus. HeavenForbid RichMormon had something to say about this months ago,

MR. ROMNEY: Excuse me. It's a geopolitical foe. And I said in the same - in the same paragraph, I said, and Iran is the greatest national security threat we face. Russia does continue to battle us in the U.N. time and time again. I have clear eyes on this. I'm not going to wear rose-colored glasses when it comes to Russia or Mr. Putin, and I'm certainly not going to say to him, I'll give you more flexibility after the election. After the election he'll get more backbone.

... and after that comment, Putin stepped up his sabre-rattling because he suddenly realized that 47% of voting Americans agreed with a guy who wanted to wave his dick at Russia on TV.

Thanks for making a foe where there wasn't one before, Romney. Good farkin' job.

This. As I said in the previous Crimea thread, perhaps Obama saw the threat just as clearly as Mittens, but was smart enough to prevent limiting our diplomatic options by not making an open enemy of Putin.
You know, not hamstringing a decade of national policy for a couple of temporary poll points. Thinking presidentially, one might say.


Ah, Obama saw the threat as clearly, that must be why he issued a stern warning not to invade after Putin had already sent troops into Crimea.

Well at least he got him on the phone.

Obama is the one who refuses to recognize that Putin does in fact think with a cold war mentality.
 
2014-03-02 09:59:09 AM  

organizmx: Question for those who know more than me: why not just let Crimea "rejoin" Russia? Wouldn't that be better than all out war between Ukraine and Russia?


They don't have the authority to vote to join Russia even though they are an autonomous republic.
 
2014-03-02 10:00:04 AM  
i1182.photobucket.com
 
2014-03-02 10:02:24 AM  

Grahor: jakomo002: Except their former satellites were actively and aggressively recruited into NATO by the West.
I mean, how is it that  ALL these countries suddenly get membership into NATO between 1999 and 2004?  The NORTH ATLANTIC Treaty Organization.

Well, obviously to have protection from Russia. As a Latvian, I'm perfectly okay with being protected from Russia by the NATO. As for the North Atlantic part, well, it's just a name without actual meaning.

However. Much as I like my own country _not_ to be part of Russia, Crimean people overwhelmingly want at least Russian protection. Because Ukrainian police and army apparently can't provide it; or at least provide to the satisfaction of Crimean population. If we, Latvia, have the right of self-determination to escape Russia and seek protection from it with NATO, then Crimea have the right of self-determination to escape the rest of Ukraine and seek protection with Russia.

You can't have the right of self-determination for some and don't have it for others.

Now, if Russians were to go where they are not invited (say, Kiev) - then it'll be a clear, no ifs, buts and howevers invasion. They weren't, so it's not as clear cut.


If Crimea wants to leave the rest of Ukraine and become an independent nation and/or join Russia, fine.  Have a referendum.  But the matter should be settled by votes, not by Russian tanks.
 
2014-03-02 10:03:23 AM  

youmightberight: You're blind if you couldn't see Putins desire for power - the man has been pm or president for almost 15 years - he "won" 99% of the vote in Chechnya - you know that place that has been fighting Russia for almost a decade now?

For an informed person your lack of information on this topic makes me sad - go study and come back to the conversation later.


You're a damned fool if you think I'm not aware of Putin's desire for power.  brimed03 said it very well:

brimed03: This. As I said in the previous Crimea thread, perhaps Obama saw the threat just as clearly as Mittens, but was smart enough to prevent limiting our diplomatic options by not making an open enemy of Putin.
You know, not hamstringing a decade of national policy for a couple of temporary poll points. Thinking presidentially, one might say.


When Russia's behaving in public, YOU DON'T WAVE YOUR DICK AT THEM.  If you wave your dick at Russia, Russia acts a fool.  So once again, good job Romney.
 
2014-03-02 10:04:01 AM  

AngryDragon: SuperSeriousMan: AngryDragon: FTA: "Hundreds Of Russian Troops Seen On Road To Simferopol ...Twelve military trucks carrying troops, a Tiger vehicle armed with a machine gun and two ambulances were seen by Associated Press journalists on the road heading from Sevastopol - the Crimean port where Russia has its naval base - to Simferopol "

That's an odd definition of both "disappeared" and "normal", but ok.

Read the paragraph after that: "However, there were no signs of any troops in Simferopol, or any crowds in the squares where masked gunmen were seen on Saturday."

Seems like subby read the whole article, unlike some other people in this thread...

Well, unless they're quantum infantry I would assume that being on the road to Simferopol mean that they are not yet in Simferopol.  Just a guess though.


Entanglement is a thorny issue.
 
2014-03-02 10:04:24 AM  

toraque: FTA:

Twelve military trucks carrying troops, a Tiger vehicle armed with a machine gun and two ambulances were seen by Associated Press journalists on the road heading from Sevastopol - the Crimean port where Russia has its naval base - to Simferopol.


Man, the Russian army really is behind the times now.


What I want to know is how they got the machine gun AND two ambulances on there.
 
2014-03-02 10:04:40 AM  

AngryDragon: Mr. Shabooboo: I would call this a Volga display of power by Putin..


 It would be no different than the U.S. taking advantage of a political crisis to take over Costa Rica, simply because there are a lot of Anglo people living there.

It would be more like the US taking over Ontario from Canada


Pleasepleasepleasepleaseplease

(And burn Toronto while you're at it; do us a solid)

/Saskatchewan
 
2014-03-02 10:05:10 AM  

DanInKansas: Rhino_man:
Thanks for making a foe where there wasn't one before, Romney. Good farkin' job.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!  That was funny.  Yes, Putin, the former KGB op and mob boss, was a Russian Pope Francis and general good buddy to the Free World before Mitt Romney hurt his feelings.

Go back to Theodore Roosevelt and the end of the Russian-Japanese war.  Russians have not particularly had warm feelings about America or its intentions towards them for at least 110 years now. Probably didn't help when we invaded in 1919, considering Americans are still carrying paper on the English for burning down the White House in 1812.


That's a dandy strawman you've got
4.bp.blogspot.com.
 
2014-03-02 10:05:53 AM  
If Crimea wants to leave the rest of Ukraine and become an independent nation and/or join Russia, fine.  Have a referendum.  But the matter should be settled by votes, not by Russian tanks.

Sure, and then Putin will allow his republics like Dagestan and Chechnya vote to leave Russia as well?  Russia has 21 Republics that would love to have a referendum and their decisions honored by Russia
 
2014-03-02 10:06:19 AM  
nutritionnewsandreviews.com
 
2014-03-02 10:07:53 AM  
BBC has this quote ironically highlighted: "You just don't in the 21st century behave in 19th century fashion by invading another country on completely trumped up pre-text." US Secretary of State John Kerry

It makes me incredibley sad that American credibility in the world for an entire generation is shot to hell thanks to a small group of evil men, and assholes like John Kerry who gave them the power to be evil.

/I'm also sad a lotta farking people died
 
2014-03-02 10:08:18 AM  
Behind all the smokescreens, this is quite simple and the US is far from clean. The US has installed a leader sympathetic to them. If that leader takes hold, it means very bad things for Russia. Russia does not want that leader because, well, it would be very bad for them (financially). This is a battle over money and nothing more. The US is just as guilty in this situation - they just choose their words more carefully so that the peoples can absorb them with less guilt.
 
2014-03-02 10:09:52 AM  

jakomo002: Except their former satellites were actively and aggressively recruited into NATO by the West.
I mean, how is it that  ALL these countries suddenly get membership into NATO between 1999 and 2004?  The NORTH ATLANTIC Treaty Organization.

Czech Republic  Warsaw Pact 1955-1991
 Hungary Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1991.
 Poland Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1990.
 Bulgaria Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1991.
 Estonia Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1991
 Latvia Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1991
 Lithuania Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1991
 Romania Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1991.
 Slovakia Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1991 as part of Czechoslovakia.
 Slovenia Previously part of Yugoslavia 1945-1991 (Non-aligned)


NATO didn't have to aggressively recruit anyone. Most of those guys as soon as they could said, "It's only a matter of time. What happens next time Russia invades? Better be a member of NATO."

If anything, some of them faced a shiatload of opposition from NATO, especially the Baltics.
 
2014-03-02 10:11:45 AM  

czetie: I'm going to go with "because the Soviet Union acted like assholes towards them for half a century, and the Russian Federation continued the policies of their predecessors".


You seem to think asshole behavior only started with the Soviet Union. If you look at a map of Europe before Napoleon, and then look at a map of Europe 15 years later, you'll find a really big country near the center is missing, mostly swallowed-up by Russia 100 years before the Communist Revolution.
 
2014-03-02 10:12:25 AM  
They where on vacation
 
2014-03-02 10:13:20 AM  

maddogdelta: SirEattonHogg: Waxing the tadpole?  Is that a real expression?

It's a new one. It started at about the same time as "pussy on the chainwax"


theawesomer.com
 
2014-03-02 10:17:23 AM  

Son of Thunder: AngryDragon: Mr. Shabooboo: I would call this a Volga display of power by Putin..


 It would be no different than the U.S. taking advantage of a political crisis to take over Costa Rica, simply because there are a lot of Anglo people living there.

It would be more like the US taking over Ontario from Canada

Pleasepleasepleasepleaseplease

(And burn Toronto while you're at it; do us a solid)

/Saskatchewan


You want us to burn down your capitol?
 
2014-03-02 10:18:55 AM  

JonnyG: Behind all the smokescreens, this is quite simple and the US is far from clean. The US has installed a leader sympathetic to them. If that leader takes hold, it means very bad things for Russia. Russia does not want that leader because, well, it would be very bad for them (financially). This is a battle over money and nothing more. The US is just as guilty in this situation - they just choose their words more carefully so that the peoples can absorb them with less guilt.


The US installed... what color is the sky in your world?
 
2014-03-02 10:20:17 AM  

vygramul: Son of Thunder: AngryDragon: Mr. Shabooboo: I would call this a Volga display of power by Putin..


 It would be no different than the U.S. taking advantage of a political crisis to take over Costa Rica, simply because there are a lot of Anglo people living there.

It would be more like the US taking over Ontario from Canada

Pleasepleasepleasepleaseplease

(And burn Toronto while you're at it; do us a solid)

/Saskatchewan

You want us to burn down your capitol?


blu.stb.s-msn.com
Yeah, the Capitol of Canada is Toronto.
 
2014-03-02 10:23:30 AM  

JonnyG: Behind all the smokescreens, this is quite simple and the US is far from clean. The US has installed a leader sympathetic to them. If that leader takes hold, it means very bad things for Russia. Russia does not want that leader because, well, it would be very bad for them (financially). This is a battle over money and nothing more. The US is just as guilty in this situation - they just choose their words more carefully so that the peoples can absorb them with less guilt.


Does the FSB pay you per posting or per hour? Any benefits package? Also, do you get paid in rubles?
 
2014-03-02 10:23:50 AM  

youmightberight: lack of warmth: jamspoon: Crimea was part of Russia until the Communists gave it to Ukraine as part of 300 year celebrations in 1954. It's population is more Russian than Ukrainian and the Russians still have major military facilities there. So it's not like the Russians are invading "foreign" country like say, Iraq.

From what I am hearing, Crimea wanted to return to Russia, or at least the folks that chased their president out.  Seems like their old president is the only one still complaining.  Well, when your people chase you out of the country, consider yourself impeached, and the US and everyone else should stop paying attention to him.  I get that the US wants their puppet, but they need to realize they don't always get their puppets.

You are uninformed. When the people chased the current pres out it was because they wanted closer ties to the EU that's why the former pres ran to Russia.

Don't be an idiot.


While I don't agree with lackofwarmth, in fairness: western Ukraine chased out the pro-Russian president. The eastern part of the Ukraine is more ethnically Russian and did not support that. I don't want to assume, but Crimea's population is by a small majority ethnic Russians due to vigorous resettlement during the Soviet years.
 
2014-03-02 10:25:19 AM  

brimed03: Rhino_man: utah dude: don't worry, Russia's not a threat according to BlackJesus. HeavenForbid RichMormon had something to say about this months ago,

MR. ROMNEY: Excuse me. It's a geopolitical foe. And I said in the same - in the same paragraph, I said, and Iran is the greatest national security threat we face. Russia does continue to battle us in the U.N. time and time again. I have clear eyes on this. I'm not going to wear rose-colored glasses when it comes to Russia or Mr. Putin, and I'm certainly not going to say to him, I'll give you more flexibility after the election. After the election he'll get more backbone.

... and after that comment, Putin stepped up his sabre-rattling because he suddenly realized that 47% of voting Americans agreed with a guy who wanted to wave his dick at Russia on TV.

Thanks for making a foe where there wasn't one before, Romney. Good farkin' job.

This. As I said in the previous Crimea thread, perhaps Obama saw the threat just as clearly as Mittens, but was smart enough to prevent limiting our diplomatic options by not making an open enemy of Putin.
You know, not hamstringing a decade of national policy for a couple of temporary poll points. Thinking presidentially, one might say.


The fark lib brigade is out in farce now.
 
2014-03-02 10:25:43 AM  

JonnyG: Behind all the smokescreens, this is quite simple and the US is far from clean. The US has installed a leader sympathetic to them. If that leader takes hold, it means very bad things for Russia. Russia does not want that leader because, well, it would be very bad for them (financially). This is a battle over money and nothing more. The US is just as guilty in this situation - they just choose their words more carefully so that the peoples can absorb them with less guilt.


Where do you live?


I was shocked to discover that there are a number of Russia expats who really believed that Stalin was a nice guy, a strong leader who took charge. That all the propaganda wasn't true, that he didnt murder 10s of millions in the 30s.

It's quite plausible that many Russiansfeel the same way about Putin, who is mild in comparison

The stuff you are saying here is pure garbage and Russian propaganda. It doesn't fool anybody. I'll see what else you post before flagging you.
 
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