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(NBC News)   Russian forces have disappeared from Simferopol, huge pro-Russian crowds are no longer present, and the Crimean peninsula returns to normal. Can we stop waxing the tadpole about WWIII now?   (nbcnews.com) divider line 235
    More: Followup, Russian forces, peninsula  
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11158 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Mar 2014 at 6:39 AM (28 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-02 06:42:57 AM
4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-03-02 06:43:24 AM
Waxing the tadpole?  Is that a real expression?
 
2014-03-02 06:45:37 AM
"What this? It's not a massive trench network we're building along the Ukrainian coast for a protracted war! It's some impromptu guerilla gardening! Move along! Nothing to see here! IT'S FOR FLOWERS!"
 
2014-03-02 06:48:08 AM
Not knowing where they are doesn't mean they went home.
 
2014-03-02 06:48:11 AM

SirEattonHogg: Waxing the tadpole?  Is that a real expression?


Are you Idiom Neo-Nazi?
 
2014-03-02 06:48:31 AM
FTA: "Hundreds Of Russian Troops Seen On Road To Simferopol ...Twelve military trucks carrying troops, a Tiger vehicle armed with a machine gun and two ambulances were seen by Associated Press journalists on the road heading from Sevastopol - the Crimean port where Russia has its naval base - to Simferopol "

That's an odd definition of both "disappeared" and "normal", but ok.
 
2014-03-02 06:49:22 AM

SirEattonHogg: Waxing the tadpole?  Is that a real expression?


蝌蝌齦蠟?
 
2014-03-02 06:49:30 AM
In before chickenhawks.
 
2014-03-02 06:50:36 AM
Idiots, it's like Willow.  They're all hiding waiting for them to open the castle gate then they're going to all attack at once.
 
2014-03-02 06:51:47 AM
This doesn't even feel real, major modern countries like Russia still invade their neighbors?  They didn't even call them an axis of evil.
 
2014-03-02 06:52:05 AM
www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com
 
2014-03-02 06:52:38 AM

SirEattonHogg: Waxing the tadpole?  Is that a real expression?


Subby probably meant "Waxing Tad's pole" but felt it waning poetic.
 
2014-03-02 06:53:26 AM

AngryDragon: FTA: "Hundreds Of Russian Troops Seen On Road To Simferopol ...Twelve military trucks carrying troops, a Tiger vehicle armed with a machine gun and two ambulances were seen by Associated Press journalists on the road heading from Sevastopol - the Crimean port where Russia has its naval base - to Simferopol "

That's an odd definition of both "disappeared" and "normal", but ok.


Yep,

Ukrainian soldiers gather behind main gate of their base as it's surrounded by Russian commandos.

distilleryimage8.ak.instagram.com

Russian soldiers surrounding Ukrainian base at Perevalne in Crimea

pbs.twimg.com
 
2014-03-02 06:54:55 AM

SirEattonHogg: Waxing the tadpole?  Is that a real expression?


Yes, it's also an L7 song.
 
2014-03-02 06:59:00 AM
g1.dcdn.lt
 
2014-03-02 06:59:58 AM
Maybe they went into the minesimg.fark.net
 
2014-03-02 07:01:00 AM
sounds like the Ukrainian army said "fark this" and left. So the Russians pulled back to the bases.
 
2014-03-02 07:01:55 AM

hobbes0022: This doesn't even feel real, major modern countries like Russia still invade their neighbors?  They didn't even call them an axis of evil.


Maybe the Russian public isn't stupid enough to swallow such ham-fisted propaganda.
 
2014-03-02 07:02:34 AM

SirEattonHogg: Waxing the tadpole?  Is that a real expression?


It's a perfectly cromulent idiom.
 
2014-03-02 07:04:45 AM
is this the thread where all the wannabe edward r murrows congregate and mope about how it was all the the *other* goons in the the blogsphere that got it wrong?
 
2014-03-02 07:05:51 AM

AngryDragon: FTA: "Hundreds Of Russian Troops Seen On Road To Simferopol ...Twelve military trucks carrying troops, a Tiger vehicle armed with a machine gun and two ambulances were seen by Associated Press journalists on the road heading from Sevastopol - the Crimean port where Russia has its naval base - to Simferopol "

That's an odd definition of both "disappeared" and "normal", but ok.


Read the paragraph after that: "However, there were no signs of any troops in Simferopol, or any crowds in the squares where masked gunmen were seen on Saturday."

Seems like subby read the whole article, unlike some other people in this thread...
 
2014-03-02 07:06:05 AM

generallyso: hobbes0022: This doesn't even feel real, major modern countries like Russia still invade their neighbors?  They didn't even call them an axis of evil.

Maybe the Russian public isn't stupid enough to swallow such ham-fisted propaganda.


Some, but the government is apparently "dealing" with them :/

Euromaidan PR @EuromaidanPR  5m
#Russian residents that came on protest to #Manezhka in #Moscow are detained by police now pic.twitter.com/IQ2zlST0Cs - @ukrpravda_news |PR
 
2014-03-02 07:06:09 AM
"That appeared to underline reports that Russia has secured control of Crimea without any signs of military engagement. The Russian move was condemned by Secretary of State John Kerry as an "invasion.""


August 2004 -"Kerry stands by 'yes' vote on Iraq war"
 
2014-03-02 07:07:01 AM

generallyso: hobbes0022: This doesn't even feel real, major modern countries like Russia still invade their neighbors?  They didn't even call them an axis of evil.

Maybe the Russian public isn't stupid enough to swallow such ham-fisted propaganda.


oi61.tinypic.com
 
2014-03-02 07:07:39 AM
An expert said Russian troop movements in the region were "not unusual."

"You have slosh back and forth twice a year because of conscription. The sight of military personnel on the road is not unusual as they move between bases. And obviously they move back and forth to Russia."


Surely an expert can tell the difference between war preparations and the usual going back and forth of soldiers?
 
2014-03-02 07:12:43 AM

SuperSeriousMan: AngryDragon: FTA: "Hundreds Of Russian Troops Seen On Road To Simferopol ...Twelve military trucks carrying troops, a Tiger vehicle armed with a machine gun and two ambulances were seen by Associated Press journalists on the road heading from Sevastopol - the Crimean port where Russia has its naval base - to Simferopol "

That's an odd definition of both "disappeared" and "normal", but ok.

Read the paragraph after that: "However, there were no signs of any troops in Simferopol, or any crowds in the squares where masked gunmen were seen on Saturday."

Seems like subby read the whole article, unlike some other people in this thread...


How does anything that <b>AngryDragon</b> just referred to sound anything like "returns to normal" to you?
 
2014-03-02 07:18:02 AM
Man, NBCNews' picture tile front page is annoying
 
2014-03-02 07:18:02 AM
Summary from the BBC

12.13pm GMT
Summary
Here is a quick summary of the latest developments
•  Russian and Ukrainian troops are engaged in a tense standoff at a military base in Crimea. The Guardian's Shaun Walker said at least a hundred Russian troops are outside the Perevalnoe base, while the Ukrainians have driven a tank up to the inside gates of the base where 15 Ukrainian soldiers are lined up.
 A Ukrainian MP told the Guardian Russian troops are trying to get soldiers to give up their weapons in three locations in Crimea. Kiev has denied Russian media claims that its troops are defecting.
•  Nato secretary general Anders Fogh Rasmussen has accused Russia of threatening peace and security in Europe by its actions and of violating the UN charter. He called on Russia to "de-escalate".
•  The Ukrainian prime minister, Arseny Yatsenyuk, said Russia has declared war on Ukraine and that it is not just a threat from Moscow.He warned: "We are on the brink of disaster".
•  Ukraine's parliament has called for international monitors to help ensure the safety of its nuclear power plants.
• French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius has said that planning for the G8 economic summit, scheduled to be held in June at the Black Sea resort of Sochi, site of the just-concluded 2014 Winter Olympics, should be put on hold
. The US had already said it would suspend participation in "preparatory meetings".
 
2014-03-02 07:18:49 AM
What people tend to forget is that a lot of Ukrainians want nothing to do with the EU.

Their fear is that once the EU calls in the IMF and World Bank, they'll shove "austerity" down people's throats and they'll be thoroughly farked. Or Latvia-ed.
 
2014-03-02 07:19:06 AM
They stopped to sightsee, maybe get a burger and take a pit stop -  Russian troops don't get out like they used to.
 
2014-03-02 07:21:19 AM

hobbes0022: This doesn't even feel real, major modern countries like Russia still invade their neighbors?  They didn't even call them an axis of evil.


If Putin insists that sending troops into another country is "legitimately protecting Russia's interests" just because some of them are ethnically Russian, then I have a horrible feeling that we're all about to learn the Russian words for "Lebensraum" and "Volksdeutsche".

Also noteworthy that Putin doesn't feel at all the same way about ethnic non-Russians who want to break away from Russia...
 
2014-03-02 07:21:24 AM
One sec....wait...ag...aaa..agggghhhhh...........


//We can stop now.
 
2014-03-02 07:23:09 AM
bah, it was nothing more than an attempted land grab.  Putin had no muscle behind it and he knew it.  He withdrew the troops as he knew that they could not withstand  a wayward wind blowing to hit them and Hopey McChange was not a person he could show his face in the world after (appearing to be) punked down.  This is not to say that Russia has no forces worth reckoning with - they simply did not send any to play in Crimea.

Putin is not done there yet.  He is plotting. . .scheming.  The US may currently have a helmet-headed special needs child as president but those types tend to hit hard.  (The exception was Chimpy McFlightsuit who was too busy spending time at his ranch at the beginning of his first term to do anything of consequence)
 
2014-03-02 07:25:24 AM

jakomo002: What people tend to forget is that a lot of Ukrainians want nothing to do with the EU.

Their fear is that once the EU calls in the IMF and World Bank, they'll shove "austerity" down people's throats and they'll be thoroughly farked. Or Latvia-ed.


What other people tend to forget is that the way to resolve a question like that is for the people of the Ukraine to use the democratic process at their disposal, not for a neigboring superpower to farking invade and impose its will.
 
2014-03-02 07:25:37 AM

czetie: hobbes0022: This doesn't even feel real, major modern countries like Russia still invade their neighbors?  They didn't even call them an axis of evil.

If Putin insists that sending troops into another country is "legitimately protecting Russia's interests" just because some of them are ethnically Russian, then I have a horrible feeling that we're all about to learn the Russian words for "Lebensraum" and "Volksdeutsche".

Also noteworthy that Putin doesn't feel at all the same way about ethnic non-Russians who want to break away from Russia...


Farking THIS.  The whole thing has just been echoes of "DANZIG IST DEUTSCHE" to me.
 
2014-03-02 07:26:12 AM

SirEattonHogg: Waxing the tadpole?  Is that a real expression?


This is worth using the googles; Snopes was a fun read. Hint: it suprisingly involves Coca-Cola.

/what they settled on literally means "to allow the mouth to be able to rejoice"
//been there, done that
 
2014-03-02 07:26:30 AM

Rhino_man: czetie: hobbes0022: This doesn't even feel real, major modern countries like Russia still invade their neighbors?  They didn't even call them an axis of evil.

If Putin insists that sending troops into another country is "legitimately protecting Russia's interests" just because some of them are ethnically Russian, then I have a horrible feeling that we're all about to learn the Russian words for "Lebensraum" and "Volksdeutsche".

Also noteworthy that Putin doesn't feel at all the same way about ethnic non-Russians who want to break away from Russia...

Farking THIS.  The whole thing has just been echoes of "DANZIG IST DEUTSCHE" to me.


I was thinking more of the Sudetenland, but yeah, Danzig works too.
 
2014-03-02 07:27:20 AM
I had assumed the gripes about MSNBC's journalism were the usual right-winger whining, but after reading that article I doubt I'll ever bother to click on a MSNBC link again.
 
2014-03-02 07:28:02 AM

K3rmy: bah, it was nothing more than an attempted land grab.  Putin had no muscle behind it and he knew it.  He withdrew the troops as he knew that they could not withstand  a wayward wind blowing to hit them and Hopey McChange was not a person he could show his face in the world after (appearing to be) punked down.  This is not to say that Russia has no forces worth reckoning with - they simply did not send any to play in Crimea.

Putin is not done there yet.  He is plotting. . .scheming.  The US may currently have a helmet-headed special needs child as president but those types tend to hit hard.  (The exception was Chimpy McFlightsuit who was too busy spending time at his ranch at the beginning of his first term to do anything of consequence)


Well, that was equally idiotic no matter what direction you view it from. Spherically stupid, so to speak.
 
2014-03-02 07:28:43 AM

Fail in Human Form: The Ukrainian prime minister, Arseny Yatsenyuk, said Russia has declared war on Ukraine and that it is not just a threat from Moscow.He warned: "We are on the brink of disaster".


Yatsenyuk is hardly an honest broker here.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2014/02/27/washingtons-man-yat se nyuk-setting-ukraine-up-for-ruin/

"Recall the phone exchange between the Ukraine ambassador and Victoria Nuland (Assistant Secretary of State for European Affairs) that got leaked out, where she basically said 'we want Yats in there.' They like him because he's pro Western," says Vladimir Signorelli, president of boutique investment research firm Bretton Woods Research LLC in New Jersey. "Yatsenyuk is the the kind of technocrat you want if you want austerity, with the veneer of professionalism," Signorelli said. "He's the type of guy who can hobnob with the European elite. A Mario Monti type: unelected and willing to do the IMFs bidding," he said.

...

Also today, Yatsenyuk promised to implement "very unpopular measures" to stabilize the country's finances. The government said it needs $35 billion to support the country over the next two years. His language in a news report broadcast by Bloomberg today indicates he is heading toward a potentially destabilizing austerity campaign:

"The treasury is empty. We will do everything not to default. If we get the financial support from the IMF, the U.S., we will do it. I'm going to be the most unpopular prime minister in the history of my country," he said. "But this is the only solution. I would never promise any kind of huge achievements. First and the most important issue is to stabilize the situation."


Yatsenyuk is "your guy", America, and nobody trusts you.
 
2014-03-02 07:28:45 AM

hobbes0022: This doesn't even feel real, major modern countries like Russia still invade their neighbors?  They didn't even call them an axis of evil.


Guess you slept through Russia's invasion of Georgia in 2008?
 
2014-03-02 07:29:23 AM
At a family function last night my aunt suggested the best way to fix all this would be for us to threaten to nuke everyone involved unless Putin and "the Ukraine president" agreed to a summit at a neutral site -- Wasilla, Alaska -- under the watchful diplomatic wink of America's finest expert on international politics, you betcha.

Yep, it's not even 7:30AM EST and you've already heard the stupidest thing you'll hear all day long.
 
2014-03-02 07:31:25 AM

Wolf_Blitzer: How does anything that <b>AngryDragon</b> just referred to sound anything like "returns to normal" to you?


Oh, I dunno... maybe the paragraph I posted - the one from TFA that was right after the paragraph he posted but (like you) apparently didn't read.

Here, I'll post it again, and this time in nice bold text so even you can't miss it:  "However, there were no signs of any troops in Simferopol, or any crowds in the squares where masked gunmen were seen on Saturday."

And here's the next paragraph, just to amplify: "That appeared to underline reports that Russia has secured control of Crimea without any signs of military engagement."

/ reading comprehension, how does it work?
 
2014-03-02 07:31:26 AM

czetie: K3rmy: bah, it was nothing more than an attempted land grab.  Putin had no muscle behind it and he knew it.  He withdrew the troops as he knew that they could not withstand  a wayward wind blowing to hit them and Hopey McChange was not a person he could show his face in the world after (appearing to be) punked down.  This is not to say that Russia has no forces worth reckoning with - they simply did not send any to play in Crimea.

Putin is not done there yet.  He is plotting. . .scheming.  The US may currently have a helmet-headed special needs child as president but those types tend to hit hard.  (The exception was Chimpy McFlightsuit who was too busy spending time at his ranch at the beginning of his first term to do anything of consequence)

Well, that was equally idiotic no matter what direction you view it from. Spherically stupid, so to speak.


lmao
 
2014-03-02 07:33:35 AM

czetie: Rhino_man: czetie: hobbes0022: This doesn't even feel real, major modern countries like Russia still invade their neighbors?  They didn't even call them an axis of evil.

If Putin insists that sending troops into another country is "legitimately protecting Russia's interests" just because some of them are ethnically Russian, then I have a horrible feeling that we're all about to learn the Russian words for "Lebensraum" and "Volksdeutsche".

Also noteworthy that Putin doesn't feel at all the same way about ethnic non-Russians who want to break away from Russia...

Farking THIS.  The whole thing has just been echoes of "DANZIG IST DEUTSCHE" to me.

I was thinking more of the Sudetenland, but yeah, Danzig works too.


Danzig has fewer characters, making it more twitter friendly.
 
2014-03-02 07:34:07 AM

Marmilman: Thanks fark mods for green lighting complete bullshiat newsflashes for the second time in a row.


Coming here for news instead of entertainment is a little pointless.  Look at the posts.  If you want to follow the issue I suggest.

Reddit Live Blog

Euromaidan Twitter Account

BBC Live Blog

Hromadske.tv
 
2014-03-02 07:34:46 AM
Wait a minute...Russia has INVISIBLE soldiers???  We are screwed!!!
 
2014-03-02 07:35:57 AM
*Guardian Live Blog not BBC.  The BBC stopped updating theirs regularly last time I checked
 
2014-03-02 07:37:36 AM

jakomo002: Fail in Human Form: The Ukrainian prime minister, Arseny Yatsenyuk, said Russia has declared war on Ukraine and that it is not just a threat from Moscow.He warned: "We are on the brink of disaster".

Yatsenyuk is hardly an honest broker here.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2014/02/27/washingtons-man-yat se nyuk-setting-ukraine-up-for-ruin/

"Recall the phone exchange between the Ukraine ambassador and Victoria Nuland (Assistant Secretary of State for European Affairs) that got leaked out, where she basically said 'we want Yats in there.' They like him because he's pro Western," says Vladimir Signorelli, president of boutique investment research firm Bretton Woods Research LLC in New Jersey. "Yatsenyuk is the the kind of technocrat you want if you want austerity, with the veneer of professionalism," Signorelli said. "He's the type of guy who can hobnob with the European elite. A Mario Monti type: unelected and willing to do the IMFs bidding," he said.

...

Also today, Yatsenyuk promised to implement "very unpopular measures" to stabilize the country's finances. The government said it needs $35 billion to support the country over the next two years. His language in a news report broadcast by Bloomberg today indicates he is heading toward a potentially destabilizing austerity campaign:

"The treasury is empty. We will do everything not to default. If we get the financial support from the IMF, the U.S., we will do it. I'm going to be the most unpopular prime minister in the history of my country," he said. "But this is the only solution. I would never promise any kind of huge achievements. First and the most important issue is to stabilize the situation."

Yatsenyuk is "your guy", America, and nobody trusts you.


Ukraine does not have to be part of either the EU or Russia. But if you are faced with the choice of either austerity or defaulting on debt, it's not a matter of what the EU will do for you, it's a matter of how to continue to function without runaway inflation and no money to pay for infrastructure.
 
2014-03-02 07:37:53 AM
oi62.tinypic.com
 
2014-03-02 07:38:13 AM

czetie: jakomo002: What people tend to forget is that a lot of Ukrainians want nothing to do with the EU.

Their fear is that once the EU calls in the IMF and World Bank, they'll shove "austerity" down people's throats and they'll be thoroughly farked. Or Latvia-ed.

What other people tend to forget is that the way to resolve a question like that is for the people of the Ukraine to use the democratic process at their disposal, not for a neigboring superpower to farking invade and impose its will.


BS.  The EU and North America are completely entwined in this whole mess.  Again, from the Nuland "Fark the EU" taped conversation, she clearly is meddling heavily.  Favoring the pro-EU Yatsenyuk heavily.

And she's following orders.  A loss for Russia means a win for the US, and neither gives a shiat about any Ukrainians.
 
2014-03-02 07:38:38 AM
 
2014-03-02 07:45:10 AM

SuperSeriousMan: Wolf_Blitzer: How does anything that <b>AngryDragon</b> just referred to sound anything like "returns to normal" to you?

Oh, I dunno... maybe the paragraph I posted - the one from TFA that was right after the paragraph he posted but (like you) apparently didn't read.

Here, I'll post it again, and this time in nice bold text so even you can't miss it:  "However, there were no signs of any troops in Simferopol, or any crowds in the squares where masked gunmen were seen on Saturday."

And here's the next paragraph, just to amplify: "That appeared to underline reports that Russia has secured control of Crimea without any signs of military engagement."

/ reading comprehension, how does it work?


It's not normal if Russia has taken over Crimea, which is what the second quote says.  Just in case you don't see why that's what it says, it says "to underline" and not "to undermine."  Basically, they rolled in, took over, and then had no need to occupy in force because no one gave them any lip.
 
2014-03-02 07:45:43 AM

Animatronik: Ukraine does not have to be part of either the EU or Russia. But if you are faced with the choice of either austerity or defaulting on debt, it's not a matter of what the EU will do for you, it's a matter of how to continue to function without runaway inflation and no money to pay for infrastructure.


Well said, but that's nowhere near to how the media (specifically U.S.) is treating it.  And the EU makes MONEY on Ukraine's IMF-imposed austerity.  Ukraine becomes a cheap market for foreign companies to flood.

And Russia has seen too many of her former satellites go over to the West (or even NATO), despite assurances after the USSR dissolved by the West that they would never.
 
2014-03-02 07:45:44 AM

Fail in Human Form: Marmilman: Thanks fark mods for green lighting complete bullshiat newsflashes for the second time in a row.

Coming here for news instead of entertainment is a little pointless.  Look at the posts.  If you want to follow the issue I suggest.

Reddit Live Blog

Euromaidan Twitter Account

BBC Live Blog

Hromadske.tv


Thank you for those links. Much appreciated.
 
2014-03-02 07:51:56 AM

jakomo002: Animatronik: Ukraine does not have to be part of either the EU or Russia. But if you are faced with the choice of either austerity or defaulting on debt, it's not a matter of what the EU will do for you, it's a matter of how to continue to function without runaway inflation and no money to pay for infrastructure.

Well said, but that's nowhere near to how the media (specifically U.S.) is treating it.  And the EU makes MONEY on Ukraine's IMF-imposed austerity.  Ukraine becomes a cheap market for foreign companies to flood.

And Russia has seen too many of her former satellites go over to the West (or even NATO), despite assurances after the USSR dissolved by the West that they would never.


Russia's former satellites are FORMER satellites. It's not clear that Russian speaking Ukrainians want to be part of Russia or simply to maintain close ties. If Russia gets into a military conflict in Ukraine, everyone will assume correctly that it's a land grab.

If Russia actually believed that there was never a chance that some of it's allies would seek a NATO or EU alliance, that's just foolishness .
 
2014-03-02 07:53:53 AM

jakomo002: BS. The EU and North America are completely entwined in this whole mess.


"Both sides are bad so invade another country?"

Countries have always applied economic and political pressure to each other to promote their own selfish interests -- not least Russia, which uses the carrot/stick of gas prices.

However, only one country involved here has tanks and troops openly operating in another country's sovereign territory; and I'm still fascinated to hear how you intend to justify military force as the appropriate way to resolve a political and economic dispute?

"War is the continuation of Politik by other means" said Clausewitz, and that's not exactly a recommendation.
 
2014-03-02 07:54:54 AM
 
2014-03-02 07:59:11 AM

jakomo002: And Russia has seen too many of her former satellites go over to the West (or even NATO), despite assurances after the USSR dissolved by the West that they would never.


Good point. We should let Russia annex Ukraine to make up for all those former satellite states' decisions to act in their own best interests.
 
2014-03-02 08:00:09 AM

jakomo002: And Russia has seen too many of her former satellites go over to the West (or even NATO), despite assurances after the USSR dissolved by the West that they would never.


Yeah, except I don't think those assurances were the West's to give. Once those former satellites are free countries, they get to choose who they want to associate with -- neither East nor West gets to use them as bargaining chips or unwilling buffer states.

The irony here is that it's precisely Russia's bullying, racist, nationalist, militaristic, censorious descent into near-dictatorship that is pushing the countries of central Europe into the arms of Europe. (And incidentally, several of them have centuries of ties with Europe long before they spent 50 years in the freezer of the Cold War.)
 
2014-03-02 08:00:52 AM

Mr. Coffee Nerves: At a family function last night my aunt suggested the best way to fix all this would be for us to threaten to nuke everyone involved unless Putin and "the Ukraine president" agreed to a summit at a neutral site -- Wasilla, Alaska -- under the watchful diplomatic wink of America's finest expert on international politics, you betcha.

Yep, it's not even 7:30AM EST and you've already heard the stupidest thing you'll hear all day long.


You sure about that?

We are on Fark, after all. ;-)
 
2014-03-02 08:01:51 AM

Animatronik: jakomo002: Animatronik: Ukraine does not have to be part of either the EU or Russia. But if you are faced with the choice of either austerity or defaulting on debt, it's not a matter of what the EU will do for you, it's a matter of how to continue to function without runaway inflation and no money to pay for infrastructure.

Well said, but that's nowhere near to how the media (specifically U.S.) is treating it.  And the EU makes MONEY on Ukraine's IMF-imposed austerity.  Ukraine becomes a cheap market for foreign companies to flood.

And Russia has seen too many of her former satellites go over to the West (or even NATO), despite assurances after the USSR dissolved by the West that they would never.

Russia's former satellites are FORMER satellites. It's not clear that Russian speaking Ukrainians want to be part of Russia or simply to maintain close ties. If Russia gets into a military conflict in Ukraine, everyone will assume correctly that it's a land grab.

If Russia actually believed that there was never a chance that some of it's allies would seek a NATO or EU alliance, that's just foolishness .


Except their former satellites were actively and aggressively recruited into NATO by the West.
I mean, how is it that  ALL these countries suddenly get membership into NATO between 1999 and 2004?  The NORTH ATLANTIC Treaty Organization.

Czech Republic  Warsaw Pact 1955-1991
 Hungary Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1991.
 Poland Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1990.
 Bulgaria Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1991.
 Estonia Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1991
 Latvia Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1991
 Lithuania Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1991
 Romania Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1991.
 Slovakia Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1991 as part of Czechoslovakia.
 Slovenia Previously part of Yugoslavia 1945-1991 (Non-aligned)
 
2014-03-02 08:07:43 AM

jakomo002: Except their former satellites were actively and aggressively recruited into NATO by the West.
I mean, how is it that ALL these countries suddenly get membership into NATO between 1999 and 2004? The NORTH ATLANTIC Treaty Organization.


I'm going to go with "because the Soviet Union acted like assholes towards them for half a century, and the Russian Federation continued the policies of their predecessors".

They are free countries. If Russia didn't want them to ally themselves with NATO it should have offered them a more attractive deal, rather than threatening and bullying and trying to pretend that the world had not changed and it still had an empire in all but name.

But let me turn the question around: why do YOU think all those countries rejected the Warsaw Pact and joined NATO the moment they had a free choice?

(You *do* realize that none of those countries were members of the Warsaw Pact of their own free will, right?)
 
2014-03-02 08:12:10 AM

czetie: However, only one country involved here has tanks and troops openly operating in another country's sovereign territory; and I'm still fascinated to hear how you intend to justify military force as the appropriate way to resolve a political and economic dispute?


Justify military force?  I wasn't aware the Russian troops had attacked or even wounded anyone.  It's a show of force, hardly the application of it.  And the Crimea PM (PM of the AUTONOMOUS REGION OF CRIMEA) did in fact invite the Russians in, no??

The irony here is that it's precisely Russia's bullying, racist, nationalist, militaristic, censorious descent into near-dictatorship that is pushing the countries of central Europe into the arms of Europe. (And incidentally, several of them have centuries of ties with Europe long before they spent 50 years in the freezer of the Cold War.)

Completely agree.  And the EU/IMF clusterfarks in Spain, Greece, Latvia, etc, make Ukraine very wary to trust either the EU, or anyone who supports IMF policies.  Lot of distrust on both sides, and justifiably
 
2014-03-02 08:12:36 AM

jakomo002: Except their former satellites were actively and aggressively recruited into NATO by the West.
I mean, how is it that  ALL these countries suddenly get membership into NATO between 1999 and 2004?  The NORTH ATLANTIC Treaty Organization.


Well, obviously to have protection from Russia. As a Latvian, I'm perfectly okay with being protected from Russia by the NATO. As for the North Atlantic part, well, it's just a name without actual meaning.

However. Much as I like my own country _not_ to be part of Russia, Crimean people overwhelmingly want at least Russian protection. Because Ukrainian police and army apparently can't provide it; or at least provide to the satisfaction of Crimean population. If we, Latvia, have the right of self-determination to escape Russia and seek protection from it with NATO, then Crimea have the right of self-determination to escape the rest of Ukraine and seek protection with Russia.

You can't have the right of self-determination for some and don't have it for others.

Now, if Russians were to go where they are not invited (say, Kiev) - then it'll be a clear, no ifs, buts and howevers invasion. They weren't, so it's not as clear cut.
 
2014-03-02 08:12:53 AM
The Today Show (I know) just reported hundreds more military vehicles moving thru Ukraine towards a military base, and referred to the feel in East Ukraine as "mutinous". Citizens on both sides are grouping together forming militia's.

Tho
 
2014-03-02 08:13:20 AM
I think we would stay out of this one. As long as Ukraine isn't part of NATO.
 
2014-03-02 08:21:04 AM
MOM.... Bartholomew HUSSEIN Osama is being a pussy. MOOOOMMM...... make him stop being a pussy.
 
2014-03-02 08:21:05 AM

lindalouwho: The Today Show (I know) just reported hundreds more military vehicles moving thru Ukraine towards a military base, and referred to the feel in East Ukraine as "mutinous". Citizens on both sides are grouping together forming militia's.

Tho


(oops)

Putin has known from the get-go a Ukrainian civil war is inevitable. He just wants to be in place to grab what he can when it's over. There's a reason Russian troops have yet to fire a shot.

I've figured civil war was inevitable, and friends in west Ukraine have been preparing for it since last summer. I really wish there was a way to make Putin GTFO.
 
2014-03-02 08:22:18 AM

SirEattonHogg: Waxing the tadpole?  Is that a real expression?


Yes. You can even buy wax tadpole candles. And waxy-looking soap tadpoles.

No. I don't know why.
 
2014-03-02 08:22:25 AM

Mr. Coffee Nerves: At a family function last night my aunt suggested the best way to fix all this would be for us to threaten to nuke everyone involved unless Putin and "the Ukraine president" agreed to a summit at a neutral site -- Wasilla, Alaska -- under the watchful diplomatic wink of America's finest expert on international politics, you betcha.

Yep, it's not even 7:30AM EST and you've already heard the stupidest thing you'll hear all day long.


Are you aware of the "Sarah Palin predicted this six years ago and you libtards mocked her for it!" talking point currently circulating?

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2014/02/28/palin-on-ukraine-i-t ol d-you-so/
 
2014-03-02 08:24:08 AM

soupafi: I think we would stay out of this one. As long as Ukraine isn't part of NATO.


I think EU shouldn't stay out of it. I think it would be perfectly okay for EU to put their troops in the Western part of the Ukraine, say, as a part of joint peacekeeping mission. Judging by my discussions with Ukrainians, nobody would object to that, not Western Ukraine, not Eastern Ukraine, not Crimea, not even Putin, if EU troops would be properly invited. Everyone would breath more easily.

Also, EU should help Ukraine with money. If you really want to help, write a check. A big one. Ukraine is close to bankruptcy; they desperately need money. EU will show, this way, that you can rely on them in a bad situation, and their statements of support are more than empty words.

Because, you know, so far, the general opinion of the countries in that region is that it's actually mostly empty words. At least if Russia promises support, right or wrong, support it provides.
 
2014-03-02 08:25:15 AM

K3rmy: bah, it was nothing more than an attempted land grab.  Putin had no muscle behind it and he knew it.  He withdrew the troops as he knew that they could not withstand  a wayward wind blowing to hit them and Hopey McChange was not a person he could show his face in the world after (appearing to be) punked down.  This is not to say that Russia has no forces worth reckoning with - they simply did not send any to play in Crimea.

Putin is not done there yet.  He is plotting. . .scheming.  The US may currently have a helmet-headed special needs child as president but those types tend to hit hard.  (The exception was Chimpy McFlightsuit who was too busy spending time at his ranch at the beginning of his first term to do anything of consequence)


Goddamn right. What we need now is a formal declaration of war, rationing for the civilian populace, universal draft, and increased tax rates to protect our vital interests in not losing face over a shiat peninsula that considers itself russian. Or, you're using this as an excuse to disparage the democratically elected president, thereby giving aid and comfort to the enemy that you are so eager to war with.
 
2014-03-02 08:25:59 AM

czetie: But let me turn the question around: why do YOU think all those countries rejected the Warsaw Pact and joined NATO the moment they had a free choice?


Because the Warsaw Pact disbanded  25 February 1991, and joining NATO meant if Russia ever tried to roll back in, they were a member and would get protection.  Sort of like paying the Mob for protection.

Because all these former satellites were poor, had very bad militaries and were terrified of Russian plans, so they became junior members of NATO.  Not exactly free choice.

Note that none joined immediately, some as late as 2004
 
2014-03-02 08:26:03 AM

SpdrJay: SirEattonHogg: Waxing the tadpole?  Is that a real expression?

It's a perfectly cromulent idiom.


I hate you all.
 
2014-03-02 08:28:56 AM

Animatronik: Russia's former satellites are FORMER satellites. It's not clear that Russian speaking Ukrainians want to be part of Russia or simply to maintain close ties. If Russia gets into a military conflict in Ukraine, everyone will assume correctly that it's a land grab.

If Russia actually believed that there was never a chance that some of it's allies would seek a NATO or EU alliance, that's just foolishness .


Russia doesn't seem to see it that way. Here and in Georgia it appears to assume that "Russia comes not for a day or a season but forever." It's not so much a land grab as repairing Russia's territorial integrity.
 
2014-03-02 08:29:12 AM

SuperSeriousMan: AngryDragon: FTA: "Hundreds Of Russian Troops Seen On Road To Simferopol ...Twelve military trucks carrying troops, a Tiger vehicle armed with a machine gun and two ambulances were seen by Associated Press journalists on the road heading from Sevastopol - the Crimean port where Russia has its naval base - to Simferopol "

That's an odd definition of both "disappeared" and "normal", but ok.

Read the paragraph after that: "However, there were no signs of any troops in Simferopol, or any crowds in the squares where masked gunmen were seen on Saturday."

Seems like subby read the whole article, unlike some other people in this thread...


Well, unless they're quantum infantry I would assume that being on the road to Simferopol mean that they are not yet in Simferopol.  Just a guess though.
 
2014-03-02 08:33:35 AM
don't worry, Russia's not a threat according to BlackJesus. HeavenForbid RichMormon had something to say about this months ago,

MR. ROMNEY: Excuse me. It's a geopolitical foe. And I said in the same - in the same paragraph, I said, and Iran is the greatest national security threat we face. Russia does continue to battle us in the U.N. time and time again. I have clear eyes on this. I'm not going to wear rose-colored glasses when it comes to Russia or Mr. Putin, and I'm certainly not going to say to him, I'll give you more flexibility after the election. After the election he'll get more backbone.
 
2014-03-02 08:37:40 AM

utah dude: don't worry, Russia's not a threat according to BlackJesus. HeavenForbid RichMormon had something to say about this months ago,

MR. ROMNEY: Excuse me. It's a geopolitical foe. And I said in the same - in the same paragraph, I said, and Iran is the greatest national security threat we face. Russia does continue to battle us in the U.N. time and time again. I have clear eyes on this. I'm not going to wear rose-colored glasses when it comes to Russia or Mr. Putin, and I'm certainly not going to say to him, I'll give you more flexibility after the election. After the election he'll get more backbone.


... and after that comment, Putin stepped up his sabre-rattling because he suddenly realized that 47% of voting Americans agreed with a guy who wanted to wave his dick at Russia on TV.

Thanks for making a foe where there wasn't one before, Romney. Good farkin' job.
 
2014-03-02 08:51:27 AM

hobbes0022: This doesn't even feel real, major modern countries like Russia still invade their neighbors?  They didn't even call them an axis of evil.


Russia is a "major, modern countr[y]?"

I count at least two words wrong there.

/do they have the information vegetable, animal, and mineral?
 
2014-03-02 08:52:49 AM

Mr. Coffee Nerves: At a family function last night my aunt suggested the best way to fix all this would be for us to threaten to nuke everyone involved unless Putin and "the Ukraine president" agreed to a summit at a neutral site -- Wasilla, Alaska -- under the watchful diplomatic wink of America's finest expert on international politics, you betcha.

Yep, it's not even 7:30AM EST and you've already heard the stupidest thing you'll hear all day long.


Wow.... just... wow.
 
2014-03-02 08:53:14 AM

Fail in Human Form: Marmilman: Thanks fark mods for green lighting complete bullshiat newsflashes for the second time in a row.

Coming here for news instead of entertainment is a little pointless.  Look at the posts.  If you want to follow the issue I suggest.

Reddit Live Blog

Euromaidan Twitter Account

BBC Live Blog

Hromadske.tv


It's too bad that in this country we don't have some kind of, you know, TV station giving us actual news. That would be a nice thing to have.
 
2014-03-02 08:53:27 AM

Rhino_man: utah dude: don't worry, Russia's not a threat according to BlackJesus. HeavenForbid RichMormon had something to say about this months ago,

MR. ROMNEY: Excuse me. It's a geopolitical foe. And I said in the same - in the same paragraph, I said, and Iran is the greatest national security threat we face. Russia does continue to battle us in the U.N. time and time again. I have clear eyes on this. I'm not going to wear rose-colored glasses when it comes to Russia or Mr. Putin, and I'm certainly not going to say to him, I'll give you more flexibility after the election. After the election he'll get more backbone.

... and after that comment, Putin stepped up his sabre-rattling because he suddenly realized that 47% of voting Americans agreed with a guy who wanted to wave his dick at Russia on TV.

Thanks for making a foe where there wasn't one before, Romney. Good farkin' job.


of course BlackJesus is the only begotten sent free of sin to save us all. of course. drop me a phat bassline for some dance competition, brother.
 
2014-03-02 08:54:24 AM

utah dude: don't worry, Russia's not a threat according to BlackJesus. HeavenForbid RichMormon had something to say about this months ago,

MR. ROMNEY: Excuse me. It's a geopolitical foe. And I said in the same - in the same paragraph, I said, and Iran is the greatest national security threat we face. Russia does continue to battle us in the U.N. time and time again. I have clear eyes on this. I'm not going to wear rose-colored glasses when it comes to Russia or Mr. Putin, and I'm certainly not going to say to him, I'll give you more flexibility after the election. After the election he'll get more backbone.


In business and in politics you either wind up with an empty suit or a shark running things - kinda wish we had a shark right now.
 
2014-03-02 08:54:50 AM

buffalosoldier: Mr. Coffee Nerves: At a family function last night my aunt suggested the best way to fix all this would be for us to threaten to nuke everyone involved unless Putin and "the Ukraine president" agreed to a summit at a neutral site -- Wasilla, Alaska -- under the watchful diplomatic wink of America's finest expert on international politics, you betcha.

Yep, it's not even 7:30AM EST and you've already heard the stupidest thing you'll hear all day long.

Wow.... just... wow.


Sarah Palin just prepared a venison potato casserole for the occasion, i heard.
 
2014-03-02 08:57:31 AM

lifeboat:


Love it.
 
2014-03-02 08:57:52 AM
Crimea was part of Russia until the Communists gave it to Ukraine as part of 300 year celebrations in 1954. It's population is more Russian than Ukrainian and the Russians still have major military facilities there. So it's not like the Russians are invading "foreign" country like say, Iraq.
 
2014-03-02 08:58:29 AM

Grahor: jakomo002: Except their former satellites were actively and aggressively recruited into NATO by the West.
I mean, how is it that  ALL these countries suddenly get membership into NATO between 1999 and 2004?  The NORTH ATLANTIC Treaty Organization.

Well, obviously to have protection from Russia. As a Latvian, I'm perfectly okay with being protected from Russia by the NATO. As for the North Atlantic part, well, it's just a name without actual meaning.

However. Much as I like my own country _not_ to be part of Russia, Crimean people overwhelmingly want at least Russian protection. Because Ukrainian police and army apparently can't provide it; or at least provide to the satisfaction of Crimean population. If we, Latvia, have the right of self-determination to escape Russia and seek protection from it with NATO, then Crimea have the right of self-determination to escape the rest of Ukraine and seek protection with Russia.

You can't have the right of self-determination for some and don't have it for others.

Now, if Russians were to go where they are not invited (say, Kiev) - then it'll be a clear, no ifs, buts and howevers invasion. They weren't, so it's not as clear cut.


But what if it's Yankuvich who invites them? After all, according to Moscow, he's the legitimate ruler. Suddenly it's not clear at all.

This whole situation is a gigantic clusterfark of no good side.  Terrible as it sounds, BOTH sides have legitimate arguments as to why they're right.  But I have to say that Russia's case seems the more unstable.  Ukraine has a historical fear of being conquered and annexed back to Russia.  All of Russia's moves seem to be acting exactly in this way...and the historical precedent of Germany between 1937 and 1939 is all to close.  I think there are ways to protect the Russian population of the Crimea that don't require military mobilization, takeover of government buildings and airports.
 
2014-03-02 08:59:12 AM

generallyso: hobbes0022: This doesn't even feel real, major modern countries like Russia still invade their neighbors?  They didn't even call them an axis of evil.

Maybe the Russian public isn't stupid enough to swallow such ham-fisted propaganda.


If you've ever heard an actual Russian national start talking about conspiracy theories, you know they want to believe.
 
2014-03-02 09:00:42 AM

Rhino_man: utah dude: don't worry, Russia's not a threat according to BlackJesus. HeavenForbid RichMormon had something to say about this months ago,

MR. ROMNEY: Excuse me. It's a geopolitical foe. And I said in the same - in the same paragraph, I said, and Iran is the greatest national security threat we face. Russia does continue to battle us in the U.N. time and time again. I have clear eyes on this. I'm not going to wear rose-colored glasses when it comes to Russia or Mr. Putin, and I'm certainly not going to say to him, I'll give you more flexibility after the election. After the election he'll get more backbone.

... and after that comment, Putin stepped up his sabre-rattling because he suddenly realized that 47% of voting Americans agreed with a guy who wanted to wave his dick at Russia on TV.

Thanks for making a foe where there wasn't one before, Romney. Good farkin' job.


You're blind if you couldn't see Putins desire for power - the man has been pm or president for almost 15 years - he "won" 99% of the vote in Chechnya - you know that place that has been fighting Russia for almost a decade now?

For an informed person your lack of information on this topic makes me sad - go study and come back to the conversation later.
 
2014-03-02 09:03:50 AM

youmightberight: Rhino_man: utah dude: don't worry, Russia's not a threat according to BlackJesus. HeavenForbid RichMormon had something to say about this months ago,

MR. ROMNEY: Excuse me. It's a geopolitical foe. And I said in the same - in the same paragraph, I said, and Iran is the greatest national security threat we face. Russia does continue to battle us in the U.N. time and time again. I have clear eyes on this. I'm not going to wear rose-colored glasses when it comes to Russia or Mr. Putin, and I'm certainly not going to say to him, I'll give you more flexibility after the election. After the election he'll get more backbone.

... and after that comment, Putin stepped up his sabre-rattling because he suddenly realized that 47% of voting Americans agreed with a guy who wanted to wave his dick at Russia on TV.

Thanks for making a foe where there wasn't one before, Romney. Good farkin' job.

You're blind if you couldn't see Putins desire for power - the man has been pm or president for almost 15 years - he "won" 99% of the vote in Chechnya - you know that place that has been fighting Russia for almost a decade now?

For an informed person your lack of information on this topic makes me sad - go study and come back to the conversation later.


<not me> but b ut but i'm  a liberal hippy that thinks everyone can just get along and love each other, especially in the UN... compromise and agreements are the foundation for the future. gay flags for everyone! yay! </not me>
 
2014-03-02 09:05:31 AM
This is just as much a power grab by the west as it is a retention of power by Russia. The legit govt chose Russia to deal with and the west didn't like it so they fuel an "uprising" and pull off a coup.
 
2014-03-02 09:06:04 AM

SirEattonHogg: Waxing the tadpole?  Is that a real expression?


It's a new one. It started at about the same time as "pussy on the chainwax"
 
2014-03-02 09:06:32 AM

jakomo002: Animatronik: jakomo002: Animatronik: Ukraine does not have to be part of either the EU or Russia. But if you are faced with the choice of either austerity or defaulting on debt, it's not a matter of what the EU will do for you, it's a matter of how to continue to function without runaway inflation and no money to pay for infrastructure.

Well said, but that's nowhere near to how the media (specifically U.S.) is treating it.  And the EU makes MONEY on Ukraine's IMF-imposed austerity.  Ukraine becomes a cheap market for foreign companies to flood.

And Russia has seen too many of her former satellites go over to the West (or even NATO), despite assurances after the USSR dissolved by the West that they would never.

Russia's former satellites are FORMER satellites. It's not clear that Russian speaking Ukrainians want to be part of Russia or simply to maintain close ties. If Russia gets into a military conflict in Ukraine, everyone will assume correctly that it's a land grab.

If Russia actually believed that there was never a chance that some of it's allies would seek a NATO or EU alliance, that's just foolishness .

Except their former satellites were actively and aggressively recruited into NATO by the West.
I mean, how is it that  ALL these countries suddenly get membership into NATO between 1999 and 2004?  The NORTH ATLANTIC Treaty Organization.

Czech Republic  Warsaw Pact 1955-1991
 Hungary Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1991.
 Poland Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1990.
 Bulgaria Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1991.
 Estonia Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1991
 Latvia Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1991
 Lithuania Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1991
 Romania Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1991.
 Slovakia Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1991 as part of Czechoslovakia.
 Slovenia Previously part of Yugoslavia 1945-1991 (Non-aligned)


Well, first thing you do when a long-term relationship ends is get into a "thing" with someone else known to be easy. I guess NATO just has that reputation.

NATO: Everybody's rebound partner.
 
2014-03-02 09:07:58 AM

jamspoon: Crimea was part of Russia until the Communists gave it to Ukraine as part of 300 year celebrations in 1954. It's population is more Russian than Ukrainian and the Russians still have major military facilities there. So it's not like the Russians are invading "foreign" country like say, Iraq.


From what I am hearing, Crimea wanted to return to Russia, or at least the folks that chased their president out.  Seems like their old president is the only one still complaining.  Well, when your people chase you out of the country, consider yourself impeached, and the US and everyone else should stop paying attention to him.  I get that the US wants their puppet, but they need to realize they don't always get their puppets.
 
2014-03-02 09:10:04 AM

jakomo002: czetie: However, only one country involved here has tanks and troops openly operating in another country's sovereign territory; and I'm still fascinated to hear how you intend to justify military force as the appropriate way to resolve a political and economic dispute?

Justify military force?  I wasn't aware the Russian troops had attacked or even wounded anyone.  It's a show of force, hardly the application of it.  And the Crimea PM (PM of the AUTONOMOUS REGION OF CRIMEA) did in fact invite the Russians in, no??

The irony here is that it's precisely Russia's bullying, racist, nationalist, militaristic, censorious descent into near-dictatorship that is pushing the countries of central Europe into the arms of Europe. (And incidentally, several of them have centuries of ties with Europe long before they spent 50 years in the freezer of the Cold War.)

Completely agree.  And the EU/IMF clusterfarks in Spain, Greece, Latvia, etc, make Ukraine very wary to trust either the EU, or anyone who supports IMF policies.  Lot of distrust on both sides, and justifiably


A home invasion is still a "home invasion" even if I don't cut yer nuts off.

Iz yu trollin'?
 
2014-03-02 09:12:12 AM

jakomo002: Czech Republic Warsaw Pact 1955-1991
Hungary Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1991.
Poland Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1990.
Bulgaria Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1991.
Estonia Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1991
Latvia Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1991
Lithuania Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1991

Romania Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1991.
Slovakia Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1991 as part of Czechoslovakia.
Slovenia Previously part of Yugoslavia 1945-1991 (Non-aligned)


WTF is wrong with you?

France Member of the rival 3rd Reich 1940-1944
 
2014-03-02 09:16:42 AM
Sigh. I said this in a thread the other day. Putin deserves a swift, hard punch to the cock.

From teh beeb:

Mr Putin said Moscow reserved the right to protect its interests and those of Russian speakers in Ukraine.

President Putin submitted his request for troops to the Russian parliament on Saturday "in connection with the extraordinary situation in Ukraine and the threat to the lives of Russian citizens", the Kremlin said.


Don't like how the Ukrainian government is governing Ukrainian citizens in Ukraine?

i.imgur.com

And the spin from Russia is sick. The interim government repealed a law that weird Vik passed recognising Russian as an official language; Russia says that's discrimination.

It won't happen, but I think the Kinison solution is the best. Want to be Russian? Move to farking Russia.

And, since Russia's line is about how Russian Ukraine is, perhaps, just for shiats and giggles, we should give Russia's seat on the UN security council to Ukraine. There's a past precedent there, with PRC taking ROC's seat; that would declaw Putin massively.

/Absolut fantasy of course.
//Cheeky vodak reference achieved,
 
2014-03-02 09:16:55 AM
Ah, Vlad was just transferring troops this turn.
 
2014-03-02 09:17:02 AM
pbs.twimg.com
 
2014-03-02 09:18:39 AM

Wake Up Sheeple: In before chickenhawks.


Apparently, got here after the pro military dictatorship crowd.
 
2014-03-02 09:20:27 AM

lack of warmth: jamspoon: Crimea was part of Russia until the Communists gave it to Ukraine as part of 300 year celebrations in 1954. It's population is more Russian than Ukrainian and the Russians still have major military facilities there. So it's not like the Russians are invading "foreign" country like say, Iraq.

From what I am hearing, Crimea wanted to return to Russia, or at least the folks that chased their president out.  Seems like their old president is the only one still complaining.  Well, when your people chase you out of the country, consider yourself impeached, and the US and everyone else should stop paying attention to him.  I get that the US wants their puppet, but they need to realize they don't always get their puppets.


Was reading up about the former PM just released from prison. The article implied she was the victim of "selective" justice. So guilty, but others got away with it. Those in power prosecute their predecessors for corruption then do the same themselves while the economy goes to the dogs.
 
2014-03-02 09:22:11 AM

lack of warmth: jamspoon: Crimea was part of Russia until the Communists gave it to Ukraine as part of 300 year celebrations in 1954. It's population is more Russian than Ukrainian and the Russians still have major military facilities there. So it's not like the Russians are invading "foreign" country like say, Iraq.

From what I am hearing, Crimea wanted to return to Russia, or at least the folks that chased their president out.  Seems like their old president is the only one still complaining.  Well, when your people chase you out of the country, consider yourself impeached, and the US and everyone else should stop paying attention to him.  I get that the US wants their puppet, but they need to realize they don't always get their puppets.


You are uninformed. When the people chased the current pres out it was because they wanted closer ties to the EU that's why the former pres ran to Russia.

Don't be an idiot.
 
2014-03-02 09:23:31 AM
They were invited! Punch was served! Check with Sevastopol!
 
2014-03-02 09:26:26 AM

jakomo002: Animatronik: jakomo002: Animatronik: Ukraine does not have to be part of either the EU or Russia. But if you are faced with the choice of either austerity or defaulting on debt, it's not a matter of what the EU will do for you, it's a matter of how to continue to function without runaway inflation and no money to pay for infrastructure.

Well said, but that's nowhere near to how the media (specifically U.S.) is treating it.  And the EU makes MONEY on Ukraine's IMF-imposed austerity.  Ukraine becomes a cheap market for foreign companies to flood.

And Russia has seen too many of her former satellites go over to the West (or even NATO), despite assurances after the USSR dissolved by the West that they would never.

Russia's former satellites are FORMER satellites. It's not clear that Russian speaking Ukrainians want to be part of Russia or simply to maintain close ties. If Russia gets into a military conflict in Ukraine, everyone will assume correctly that it's a land grab.

If Russia actually believed that there was never a chance that some of it's allies would seek a NATO or EU alliance, that's just foolishness .

Except their former satellites were actively and aggressively recruited into NATO by the West.
I mean, how is it that  ALL these countries suddenly get membership into NATO between 1999 and 2004?  The NORTH ATLANTIC Treaty Organization.

Czech Republic  Warsaw Pact 1955-1991
 Hungary Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1991.
 Poland Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1990.
 Bulgaria Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1991.
 Estonia Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1991
 Latvia Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1991
 Lithuania Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1991
 Romania Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1991.
 Slovakia Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1991 as part of Czechoslovakia.
 Slovenia Previously part of Yugoslavia 1945-1991 (Non-aligned)


Nobody believes that the Warsaw Pact was a real pact, any more than they believe that DPRK is a real republic, or that the Duma in Russia actually votes their own minds instead of Putin's.

I'm not sure why you think any country would choose being a part of Russia without a gun to their collective head, since it has been taken over by bullies and autocrats led by Putin.

And if Putin waves a gun at them they will run to Europe. If Putin invades Ukraine proper it will give western powers the excuse they need to move soldiers into former satellite states at their request, which in turn will lead Russia to increase military spending, and this will be like the Cold War.
 
2014-03-02 09:29:37 AM
Jeez, what's with all the Russian apologists here? Russia has invaded Ukraine's sovereignty, an action in violation of a few treaties. The fact that you can spin the facts and claim that it is "to protect" Russian speaking population is irrelevent. Crimea is not part of Russia, and the population are not Russian citizens despite the sudden availability of Russian passports. Russian speaking people were not under any direct threat either, there were some flare ups, but certainly nothing to justify the tanks moving in.

Whether Russia recognizes the new gov't in Kyiv is irrelevent too. Yanukovych was removed democratically, even his own party abandoned him. He is no longer the President of Ukraine and in fact, should be on a flight to Switzerland to face charges of mass murder.

And the east-west split in Ukraine is not as simple any more so stop thinking the East would welcome Putin. They may speak Russian in the East but they, for the most part, do not want to be part of Russia. The East was well represented both at Maidan and in regional protests.

Now, what to do? Options are limited. I think Putin is trying to antagonize the Ukrainians into firing the first shot, then he can hit hard. The fact that there wasn't some knee-jerk reaction from Ukraine probably surprised him and now he's left a bit exposed diplomatically. US troops-probably not good. NATO? Maybe send some observers or try to secure air space but not boots on the ground. Best short term option may be to do nothing but keep calm. Economic sanctions against Russia, pulling out of G8 and stopping investments in Russia, a NATO "presence" are doable options, I think.

Best course would be to continue to work with Ukraine's new gov't to stabilize the economic situation. That needs to be the first step, the uncertainty in the country now is everyone's enemy and Putin's best friend.
 
2014-03-02 09:29:38 AM
Out where I live here in Norcal, many of the local evangelical churches are soooooo hoping this is the start of WWIII, which will in turn hasten the coming of the rapture so they can all be with Jesus.

These people scare the shiat out of me.
 
2014-03-02 09:30:19 AM
The Russians are just waiting for their killer bee reinforcements.

img.fark.net
 
2014-03-02 09:30:24 AM

Parthenogenetic: Mr. Coffee Nerves: At a family function last night my aunt suggested the best way to fix all this would be for us to threaten to nuke everyone involved unless Putin and "the Ukraine president" agreed to a summit at a neutral site -- Wasilla, Alaska -- under the watchful diplomatic wink of America's finest expert on international politics, you betcha.

Yep, it's not even 7:30AM EST and you've already heard the stupidest thing you'll hear all day long.

Are you aware of the "Sarah Palin predicted this six years ago and you libtards mocked her for it!" talking point currently circulating?

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2014/02/28/palin-on-ukraine-i-t ol d-you-so/


Yeah, naming a country at random in a bit of political hyperbole doesn't make her Nostradamus or Jack Ryan. It's like saying someone's cursed for walking under a ladder and them saying "aha!" when they lose their job three years on.

Applying Spalin quotes are the equivalent of cowflop bingo with a diuretic Bessie. So much shiat is getting spewed, eventually something is gonna land in a winning square. But that's not a sign of intelligence on the part of either, and I'm certainly not bronzing it for the mantelpiece.
 
2014-03-02 09:31:50 AM

the_end_is_rear: Out where I live here in Norcal, many of the local evangelical churches are soooooo hoping this is the start of WWIII, which will in turn hasten the coming of the rapture so they can all be with Jesus.

These people scare the shiat out of me.


Where in norcal? I used to live there and never met people like that.  Did you go talk to them or something?
 
2014-03-02 09:36:57 AM

jakomo002: czetie: But let me turn the question around: why do YOU think all those countries rejected the Warsaw Pact and joined NATO the moment they had a free choice?

Because the Warsaw Pact disbanded  25 February 1991, and joining NATO meant if Russia ever tried to roll back in, they were a member and would get protection.  Sort of like paying the Mob for protection.

Because all these former satellites were poor, had very bad militaries and were terrified of Russian plans, so they became junior members of NATO.  Not exactly free choice.

Note that none joined immediately, some as late as 2004


Your last point would indicate that a lot of these "terrified" countries didn't see a need for NATO protection for up to 13 years. One might almost think they'd made a mature, considered decision after viewing and perhaps even trying out various alternatives.
 
2014-03-02 09:38:36 AM
In the Conservative bastion of Placer County.
We have a few mega evangelical churches here.
I have relatives that attend one.
They are so hoping this is the big one.

Me, I am the agnostic liberal black sheep of the family.
 
2014-03-02 09:41:17 AM
Rhino_man:
Thanks for making a foe where there wasn't one before, Romney. Good farkin' job.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!  That was funny.  Yes, Putin, the former KGB op and mob boss, was a Russian Pope Francis and general good buddy to the Free World before Mitt Romney hurt his feelings.

Go back to Theodore Roosevelt and the end of the Russian-Japanese war.  Russians have not particularly had warm feelings about America or its intentions towards them for at least 110 years now. Probably didn't help when we invaded in 1919, considering Americans are still carrying paper on the English for burning down the White House in 1812.
 
2014-03-02 09:41:38 AM
We need to throw Russia out of the G8 immediately and invite Brazil to take it's place.
 
2014-03-02 09:44:20 AM

Rhino_man: utah dude: don't worry, Russia's not a threat according to BlackJesus. HeavenForbid RichMormon had something to say about this months ago,

MR. ROMNEY: Excuse me. It's a geopolitical foe. And I said in the same - in the same paragraph, I said, and Iran is the greatest national security threat we face. Russia does continue to battle us in the U.N. time and time again. I have clear eyes on this. I'm not going to wear rose-colored glasses when it comes to Russia or Mr. Putin, and I'm certainly not going to say to him, I'll give you more flexibility after the election. After the election he'll get more backbone.

... and after that comment, Putin stepped up his sabre-rattling because he suddenly realized that 47% of voting Americans agreed with a guy who wanted to wave his dick at Russia on TV.

Thanks for making a foe where there wasn't one before, Romney. Good farkin' job.


This. As I said in the previous Crimea thread, perhaps Obama saw the threat just as clearly as Mittens, but was smart enough to prevent limiting our diplomatic options by not making an open enemy of Putin.
You know, not hamstringing a decade of national policy for a couple of temporary poll points. Thinking presidentially, one might say.
 
2014-03-02 09:45:55 AM

utah dude: Rhino_man: utah dude: don't worry, Russia's not a threat according to BlackJesus. HeavenForbid RichMormon had something to say about this months ago,

MR. ROMNEY: Excuse me. It's a geopolitical foe. And I said in the same - in the same paragraph, I said, and Iran is the greatest national security threat we face. Russia does continue to battle us in the U.N. time and time again. I have clear eyes on this. I'm not going to wear rose-colored glasses when it comes to Russia or Mr. Putin, and I'm certainly not going to say to him, I'll give you more flexibility after the election. After the election he'll get more backbone.

... and after that comment, Putin stepped up his sabre-rattling because he suddenly realized that 47% of voting Americans agreed with a guy who wanted to wave his dick at Russia on TV.

Thanks for making a foe where there wasn't one before, Romney. Good farkin' job.

of course BlackJesus is the only begotten sent free of sin to save us all. of course. drop me a phat bassline for some dance competition, brother.


Yay, you really suck at trolling!
 
2014-03-02 09:46:26 AM
 I would call this a Volga display of power by Putin..


 It would be no different than the U.S. taking advantage of a political crisis to take over Costa Rica, simply because there are a lot of Anglo people living there.
 
2014-03-02 09:48:27 AM

Mr. Shabooboo: I would call this a Volga display of power by Putin..


 It would be no different than the U.S. taking advantage of a political crisis to take over Costa Rica, simply because there are a lot of Anglo people living there.


It would be more like the US taking over Ontario from Canada
 
2014-03-02 09:48:37 AM

jakomo002: czetie: However, only one country involved here has tanks and troops openly operating in another country's sovereign territory; and I'm still fascinated to hear how you intend to justify military force as the appropriate way to resolve a political and economic dispute?

Justify military force?  I wasn't aware the Russian troops had attacked or even wounded anyone.  It's a show of force, hardly the application of it.  And the Crimea PM (PM of the AUTONOMOUS REGION OF CRIMEA) did in fact invite the Russians in, no??

The irony here is that it's precisely Russia's bullying, racist, nationalist, militaristic, censorious descent into near-dictatorship that is pushing the countries of central Europe into the arms of Europe. (And incidentally, several of them have centuries of ties with Europe long before they spent 50 years in the freezer of the Cold War.)

Completely agree.  And the EU/IMF clusterfarks in Spain, Greece, Latvia, etc, make Ukraine very wary to trust either the EU, or anyone who supports IMF policies.  Lot of distrust on both sides, and justifiably


Those countries should start their own economic union... With blackjack! And hookers!
 
2014-03-02 09:52:18 AM

AngryDragon: Mr. Shabooboo: I would call this a Volga display of power by Putin..


 It would be no different than the U.S. taking advantage of a political crisis to take over Costa Rica, simply because there are a lot of Anglo people living there.

It would be more like the US taking over Ontario from Canada


So long as the US gets the Leafs and Canada has to retain the Senators.
 
2014-03-02 09:52:47 AM
Question for those who know more than me: why not just let Crimea "rejoin" Russia? Wouldn't that be better than all out war between Ukraine and Russia?
 
2014-03-02 09:54:15 AM

Rhino_man: czetie: Rhino_man: czetie: hobbes0022: This doesn't even feel real, major modern countries like Russia still invade their neighbors?  They didn't even call them an axis of evil.

If Putin insists that sending troops into another country is "legitimately protecting Russia's interests" just because some of them are ethnically Russian, then I have a horrible feeling that we're all about to learn the Russian words for "Lebensraum" and "Volksdeutsche".

Also noteworthy that Putin doesn't feel at all the same way about ethnic non-Russians who want to break away from Russia...

Farking THIS.  The whole thing has just been echoes of "DANZIG IST DEUTSCHE" to me.

I was thinking more of the Sudetenland, but yeah, Danzig works too.

Danzig has fewer characters, making it more twitter friendly.


Danzig's songs are a lot catchier, too.
 
2014-03-02 09:55:15 AM

lack of warmth: jamspoon: Crimea was part of Russia until the Communists gave it to Ukraine as part of 300 year celebrations in 1954. It's population is more Russian than Ukrainian and the Russians still have major military facilities there. So it's not like the Russians are invading "foreign" country like say, Iraq.

From what I am hearing, Crimea wanted to return to Russia, or at least the folks that chased their president out.  Seems like their old president is the only one still complaining.  Well, when your people chase you out of the country, consider yourself impeached, and the US and everyone else should stop paying attention to him.  I get that the US wants their puppet, but they need to realize they don't always get their puppets.


I just don't know the history of Crimea well, so I can't take a position on this. But others have commented that Russia packed the Crimea with ethnic Russians in the same way that GB packed northern Ireland with loyal Protestants and then pointed to "majority Irish" desire for continued UK rule in the six counties.

An odd case where a thing may be both factually true and wrong at the same time.
 
2014-03-02 09:55:23 AM
FTA:

Twelve military trucks carrying troops, a Tiger vehicle armed with a machine gun and two ambulances were seen by Associated Press journalists on the road heading from Sevastopol - the Crimean port where Russia has its naval base - to Simferopol.

www.squidmobile.com

Man, the Russian army really is behind the times now.
 
2014-03-02 09:56:10 AM

organizmx: Question for those who know more than me: why not just let Crimea "rejoin" Russia? Wouldn't that be better than all out war between Ukraine and Russia?


From my limited understanding, the people wanting to "rejoin" are like when Saddam invaded Kuwait to "liberate" them and the people proclaiming they wanted to rejoin are just puppets. Same kinda thing here. The only people who want to rejoin Russia are just talking puppets for Russia, and the Ukrainians who don't want to aren't being allowed to speak.
 
2014-03-02 09:57:36 AM

parkerlewis: Wait a minute...Russia has INVISIBLE soldiers???  We are screwed!!!


No, no, you just lure them into water to short-circuit their cloaking.  And smear some mud on you to defeat their infrared.  Easy-peasy.
 
2014-03-02 09:57:39 AM

brimed03: Rhino_man: utah dude: don't worry, Russia's not a threat according to BlackJesus. HeavenForbid RichMormon had something to say about this months ago,

MR. ROMNEY: Excuse me. It's a geopolitical foe. And I said in the same - in the same paragraph, I said, and Iran is the greatest national security threat we face. Russia does continue to battle us in the U.N. time and time again. I have clear eyes on this. I'm not going to wear rose-colored glasses when it comes to Russia or Mr. Putin, and I'm certainly not going to say to him, I'll give you more flexibility after the election. After the election he'll get more backbone.

... and after that comment, Putin stepped up his sabre-rattling because he suddenly realized that 47% of voting Americans agreed with a guy who wanted to wave his dick at Russia on TV.

Thanks for making a foe where there wasn't one before, Romney. Good farkin' job.

This. As I said in the previous Crimea thread, perhaps Obama saw the threat just as clearly as Mittens, but was smart enough to prevent limiting our diplomatic options by not making an open enemy of Putin.
You know, not hamstringing a decade of national policy for a couple of temporary poll points. Thinking presidentially, one might say.


Ah, Obama saw the threat as clearly, that must be why he issued a stern warning not to invade after Putin had already sent troops into Crimea.

Well at least he got him on the phone.

Obama is the one who refuses to recognize that Putin does in fact think with a cold war mentality.
 
2014-03-02 09:59:09 AM

organizmx: Question for those who know more than me: why not just let Crimea "rejoin" Russia? Wouldn't that be better than all out war between Ukraine and Russia?


They don't have the authority to vote to join Russia even though they are an autonomous republic.
 
2014-03-02 10:00:04 AM
i1182.photobucket.com
 
2014-03-02 10:02:24 AM

Grahor: jakomo002: Except their former satellites were actively and aggressively recruited into NATO by the West.
I mean, how is it that  ALL these countries suddenly get membership into NATO between 1999 and 2004?  The NORTH ATLANTIC Treaty Organization.

Well, obviously to have protection from Russia. As a Latvian, I'm perfectly okay with being protected from Russia by the NATO. As for the North Atlantic part, well, it's just a name without actual meaning.

However. Much as I like my own country _not_ to be part of Russia, Crimean people overwhelmingly want at least Russian protection. Because Ukrainian police and army apparently can't provide it; or at least provide to the satisfaction of Crimean population. If we, Latvia, have the right of self-determination to escape Russia and seek protection from it with NATO, then Crimea have the right of self-determination to escape the rest of Ukraine and seek protection with Russia.

You can't have the right of self-determination for some and don't have it for others.

Now, if Russians were to go where they are not invited (say, Kiev) - then it'll be a clear, no ifs, buts and howevers invasion. They weren't, so it's not as clear cut.


If Crimea wants to leave the rest of Ukraine and become an independent nation and/or join Russia, fine.  Have a referendum.  But the matter should be settled by votes, not by Russian tanks.
 
2014-03-02 10:03:23 AM

youmightberight: You're blind if you couldn't see Putins desire for power - the man has been pm or president for almost 15 years - he "won" 99% of the vote in Chechnya - you know that place that has been fighting Russia for almost a decade now?

For an informed person your lack of information on this topic makes me sad - go study and come back to the conversation later.


You're a damned fool if you think I'm not aware of Putin's desire for power.  brimed03 said it very well:

brimed03: This. As I said in the previous Crimea thread, perhaps Obama saw the threat just as clearly as Mittens, but was smart enough to prevent limiting our diplomatic options by not making an open enemy of Putin.
You know, not hamstringing a decade of national policy for a couple of temporary poll points. Thinking presidentially, one might say.


When Russia's behaving in public, YOU DON'T WAVE YOUR DICK AT THEM.  If you wave your dick at Russia, Russia acts a fool.  So once again, good job Romney.
 
2014-03-02 10:04:01 AM

AngryDragon: SuperSeriousMan: AngryDragon: FTA: "Hundreds Of Russian Troops Seen On Road To Simferopol ...Twelve military trucks carrying troops, a Tiger vehicle armed with a machine gun and two ambulances were seen by Associated Press journalists on the road heading from Sevastopol - the Crimean port where Russia has its naval base - to Simferopol "

That's an odd definition of both "disappeared" and "normal", but ok.

Read the paragraph after that: "However, there were no signs of any troops in Simferopol, or any crowds in the squares where masked gunmen were seen on Saturday."

Seems like subby read the whole article, unlike some other people in this thread...

Well, unless they're quantum infantry I would assume that being on the road to Simferopol mean that they are not yet in Simferopol.  Just a guess though.


Entanglement is a thorny issue.
 
2014-03-02 10:04:24 AM

toraque: FTA:

Twelve military trucks carrying troops, a Tiger vehicle armed with a machine gun and two ambulances were seen by Associated Press journalists on the road heading from Sevastopol - the Crimean port where Russia has its naval base - to Simferopol.


Man, the Russian army really is behind the times now.


What I want to know is how they got the machine gun AND two ambulances on there.
 
2014-03-02 10:04:40 AM

AngryDragon: Mr. Shabooboo: I would call this a Volga display of power by Putin..


 It would be no different than the U.S. taking advantage of a political crisis to take over Costa Rica, simply because there are a lot of Anglo people living there.

It would be more like the US taking over Ontario from Canada


Pleasepleasepleasepleaseplease

(And burn Toronto while you're at it; do us a solid)

/Saskatchewan
 
2014-03-02 10:05:10 AM

DanInKansas: Rhino_man:
Thanks for making a foe where there wasn't one before, Romney. Good farkin' job.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!  That was funny.  Yes, Putin, the former KGB op and mob boss, was a Russian Pope Francis and general good buddy to the Free World before Mitt Romney hurt his feelings.

Go back to Theodore Roosevelt and the end of the Russian-Japanese war.  Russians have not particularly had warm feelings about America or its intentions towards them for at least 110 years now. Probably didn't help when we invaded in 1919, considering Americans are still carrying paper on the English for burning down the White House in 1812.


That's a dandy strawman you've got
4.bp.blogspot.com.
 
2014-03-02 10:05:53 AM
If Crimea wants to leave the rest of Ukraine and become an independent nation and/or join Russia, fine.  Have a referendum.  But the matter should be settled by votes, not by Russian tanks.

Sure, and then Putin will allow his republics like Dagestan and Chechnya vote to leave Russia as well?  Russia has 21 Republics that would love to have a referendum and their decisions honored by Russia
 
2014-03-02 10:06:19 AM
nutritionnewsandreviews.com
 
2014-03-02 10:07:53 AM
BBC has this quote ironically highlighted: "You just don't in the 21st century behave in 19th century fashion by invading another country on completely trumped up pre-text." US Secretary of State John Kerry

It makes me incredibley sad that American credibility in the world for an entire generation is shot to hell thanks to a small group of evil men, and assholes like John Kerry who gave them the power to be evil.

/I'm also sad a lotta farking people died
 
2014-03-02 10:08:18 AM
Behind all the smokescreens, this is quite simple and the US is far from clean. The US has installed a leader sympathetic to them. If that leader takes hold, it means very bad things for Russia. Russia does not want that leader because, well, it would be very bad for them (financially). This is a battle over money and nothing more. The US is just as guilty in this situation - they just choose their words more carefully so that the peoples can absorb them with less guilt.
 
2014-03-02 10:09:52 AM

jakomo002: Except their former satellites were actively and aggressively recruited into NATO by the West.
I mean, how is it that  ALL these countries suddenly get membership into NATO between 1999 and 2004?  The NORTH ATLANTIC Treaty Organization.

Czech Republic  Warsaw Pact 1955-1991
 Hungary Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1991.
 Poland Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1990.
 Bulgaria Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1991.
 Estonia Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1991
 Latvia Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1991
 Lithuania Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1991
 Romania Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1991.
 Slovakia Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1991 as part of Czechoslovakia.
 Slovenia Previously part of Yugoslavia 1945-1991 (Non-aligned)


NATO didn't have to aggressively recruit anyone. Most of those guys as soon as they could said, "It's only a matter of time. What happens next time Russia invades? Better be a member of NATO."

If anything, some of them faced a shiatload of opposition from NATO, especially the Baltics.
 
2014-03-02 10:11:45 AM

czetie: I'm going to go with "because the Soviet Union acted like assholes towards them for half a century, and the Russian Federation continued the policies of their predecessors".


You seem to think asshole behavior only started with the Soviet Union. If you look at a map of Europe before Napoleon, and then look at a map of Europe 15 years later, you'll find a really big country near the center is missing, mostly swallowed-up by Russia 100 years before the Communist Revolution.
 
2014-03-02 10:12:25 AM
They where on vacation
 
2014-03-02 10:13:20 AM

maddogdelta: SirEattonHogg: Waxing the tadpole?  Is that a real expression?

It's a new one. It started at about the same time as "pussy on the chainwax"


theawesomer.com
 
2014-03-02 10:17:23 AM

Son of Thunder: AngryDragon: Mr. Shabooboo: I would call this a Volga display of power by Putin..


 It would be no different than the U.S. taking advantage of a political crisis to take over Costa Rica, simply because there are a lot of Anglo people living there.

It would be more like the US taking over Ontario from Canada

Pleasepleasepleasepleaseplease

(And burn Toronto while you're at it; do us a solid)

/Saskatchewan


You want us to burn down your capitol?
 
2014-03-02 10:18:55 AM

JonnyG: Behind all the smokescreens, this is quite simple and the US is far from clean. The US has installed a leader sympathetic to them. If that leader takes hold, it means very bad things for Russia. Russia does not want that leader because, well, it would be very bad for them (financially). This is a battle over money and nothing more. The US is just as guilty in this situation - they just choose their words more carefully so that the peoples can absorb them with less guilt.


The US installed... what color is the sky in your world?
 
2014-03-02 10:20:17 AM

vygramul: Son of Thunder: AngryDragon: Mr. Shabooboo: I would call this a Volga display of power by Putin..


 It would be no different than the U.S. taking advantage of a political crisis to take over Costa Rica, simply because there are a lot of Anglo people living there.

It would be more like the US taking over Ontario from Canada

Pleasepleasepleasepleaseplease

(And burn Toronto while you're at it; do us a solid)

/Saskatchewan

You want us to burn down your capitol?


blu.stb.s-msn.com
Yeah, the Capitol of Canada is Toronto.
 
2014-03-02 10:23:30 AM

JonnyG: Behind all the smokescreens, this is quite simple and the US is far from clean. The US has installed a leader sympathetic to them. If that leader takes hold, it means very bad things for Russia. Russia does not want that leader because, well, it would be very bad for them (financially). This is a battle over money and nothing more. The US is just as guilty in this situation - they just choose their words more carefully so that the peoples can absorb them with less guilt.


Does the FSB pay you per posting or per hour? Any benefits package? Also, do you get paid in rubles?
 
2014-03-02 10:23:50 AM

youmightberight: lack of warmth: jamspoon: Crimea was part of Russia until the Communists gave it to Ukraine as part of 300 year celebrations in 1954. It's population is more Russian than Ukrainian and the Russians still have major military facilities there. So it's not like the Russians are invading "foreign" country like say, Iraq.

From what I am hearing, Crimea wanted to return to Russia, or at least the folks that chased their president out.  Seems like their old president is the only one still complaining.  Well, when your people chase you out of the country, consider yourself impeached, and the US and everyone else should stop paying attention to him.  I get that the US wants their puppet, but they need to realize they don't always get their puppets.

You are uninformed. When the people chased the current pres out it was because they wanted closer ties to the EU that's why the former pres ran to Russia.

Don't be an idiot.


While I don't agree with lackofwarmth, in fairness: western Ukraine chased out the pro-Russian president. The eastern part of the Ukraine is more ethnically Russian and did not support that. I don't want to assume, but Crimea's population is by a small majority ethnic Russians due to vigorous resettlement during the Soviet years.
 
2014-03-02 10:25:19 AM

brimed03: Rhino_man: utah dude: don't worry, Russia's not a threat according to BlackJesus. HeavenForbid RichMormon had something to say about this months ago,

MR. ROMNEY: Excuse me. It's a geopolitical foe. And I said in the same - in the same paragraph, I said, and Iran is the greatest national security threat we face. Russia does continue to battle us in the U.N. time and time again. I have clear eyes on this. I'm not going to wear rose-colored glasses when it comes to Russia or Mr. Putin, and I'm certainly not going to say to him, I'll give you more flexibility after the election. After the election he'll get more backbone.

... and after that comment, Putin stepped up his sabre-rattling because he suddenly realized that 47% of voting Americans agreed with a guy who wanted to wave his dick at Russia on TV.

Thanks for making a foe where there wasn't one before, Romney. Good farkin' job.

This. As I said in the previous Crimea thread, perhaps Obama saw the threat just as clearly as Mittens, but was smart enough to prevent limiting our diplomatic options by not making an open enemy of Putin.
You know, not hamstringing a decade of national policy for a couple of temporary poll points. Thinking presidentially, one might say.


The fark lib brigade is out in farce now.
 
2014-03-02 10:25:43 AM

JonnyG: Behind all the smokescreens, this is quite simple and the US is far from clean. The US has installed a leader sympathetic to them. If that leader takes hold, it means very bad things for Russia. Russia does not want that leader because, well, it would be very bad for them (financially). This is a battle over money and nothing more. The US is just as guilty in this situation - they just choose their words more carefully so that the peoples can absorb them with less guilt.


Where do you live?


I was shocked to discover that there are a number of Russia expats who really believed that Stalin was a nice guy, a strong leader who took charge. That all the propaganda wasn't true, that he didnt murder 10s of millions in the 30s.

It's quite plausible that many Russiansfeel the same way about Putin, who is mild in comparison

The stuff you are saying here is pure garbage and Russian propaganda. It doesn't fool anybody. I'll see what else you post before flagging you.
 
2014-03-02 10:26:02 AM

El Dudereno: jakomo002: czetie: However, only one country involved here has tanks and troops openly operating in another country's sovereign territory; and I'm still fascinated to hear how you intend to justify military force as the appropriate way to resolve a political and economic dispute?

Justify military force?  I wasn't aware the Russian troops had attacked or even wounded anyone.  It's a show of force, hardly the application of it.  And the Crimea PM (PM of the AUTONOMOUS REGION OF CRIMEA) did in fact invite the Russians in, no??

The irony here is that it's precisely Russia's bullying, racist, nationalist, militaristic, censorious descent into near-dictatorship that is pushing the countries of central Europe into the arms of Europe. (And incidentally, several of them have centuries of ties with Europe long before they spent 50 years in the freezer of the Cold War.)

Completely agree.  And the EU/IMF clusterfarks in Spain, Greece, Latvia, etc, make Ukraine very wary to trust either the EU, or anyone who supports IMF policies.  Lot of distrust on both sides, and justifiably

Those countries should start their own economic union... With blackjack! And hookers!


This!

As a matter of fact, forget the blackjack!
 
2014-03-02 10:26:41 AM

jakomo002: Fail in Human Form: The Ukrainian prime minister, Arseny Yatsenyuk, said Russia has declared war on Ukraine and that it is not just a threat from Moscow.He warned: "We are on the brink of disaster".

Yatsenyuk is hardly an honest broker here.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2014/02/27/washingtons-man-yat se nyuk-setting-ukraine-up-for-ruin/

"Recall the phone exchange between the Ukraine ambassador and Victoria Nuland (Assistant Secretary of State for European Affairs) that got leaked out, where she basically said 'we want Yats in there.' They like him because he's pro Western," says Vladimir Signorelli, president of boutique investment research firm Bretton Woods Research LLC in New Jersey. "Yatsenyuk is the the kind of technocrat you want if you want austerity, with the veneer of professionalism," Signorelli said. "He's the type of guy who can hobnob with the European elite. A Mario Monti type: unelected and willing to do the IMFs bidding," he said.

...

Also today, Yatsenyuk promised to implement "very unpopular measures" to stabilize the country's finances. The government said it needs $35 billion to support the country over the next two years. His language in a news report broadcast by Bloomberg today indicates he is heading toward a potentially destabilizing austerity campaign:

"The treasury is empty. We will do everything not to default. If we get the financial support from the IMF, the U.S., we will do it. I'm going to be the most unpopular prime minister in the history of my country," he said. "But this is the only solution. I would never promise any kind of huge achievements. First and the most important issue is to stabilize the situation."

Yatsenyuk is "your guy", America, and nobody trusts you.


So, a country where political corruption runs rampant has a *shock* corrupt politician?! Say it ain't so!
 
2014-03-02 10:27:33 AM

Animatronik: JonnyG: Behind all the smokescreens, this is quite simple and the US is far from clean. The US has installed a leader sympathetic to them. If that leader takes hold, it means very bad things for Russia. Russia does not want that leader because, well, it would be very bad for them (financially). This is a battle over money and nothing more. The US is just as guilty in this situation - they just choose their words more carefully so that the peoples can absorb them with less guilt.

Where do you live?


I was shocked to discover that there are a number of Russia expats who really believed that Stalin was a nice guy, a strong leader who took charge. That all the propaganda wasn't true, that he didnt murder 10s of millions in the 30s.

It's quite plausible that many Russiansfeel the same way about Putin, who is mild in comparison

The stuff you are saying here is pure garbage and Russian propaganda. It doesn't fool anybody. I'll see what else you post before flagging you.


So, I'm not the only one thinking this guy is full if shiat?
 
2014-03-02 10:30:35 AM

Rhino_man: youmightberight: You're blind if you couldn't see Putins desire for power - the man has been pm or president for almost 15 years - he "won" 99% of the vote in Chechnya - you know that place that has been fighting Russia for almost a decade now?

For an informed person your lack of information on this topic makes me sad - go study and come back to the conversation later.

You're a damned fool if you think I'm not aware of Putin's desire for power.  brimed03 said it very well:

brimed03: This. As I said in the previous Crimea thread, perhaps Obama saw the threat just as clearly as Mittens, but was smart enough to prevent limiting our diplomatic options by not making an open enemy of Putin.
You know, not hamstringing a decade of national policy for a couple of temporary poll points. Thinking presidentially, one might say.

When Russia's behaving in public, YOU DON'T WAVE YOUR DICK AT THEM.  If you wave your dick at Russia, Russia acts a fool.  So once again, good job Romney.


So we agree that Putin is after as much power and land as possible starting small with Georgia and now taking bits of Ukraine - but you are failing to recognize that Putin would use anything as an excuse to take more land/power.

We're litterally watching a defacto dictator pull a hitler and even WITH histories example you're siding with the dictator.
 
2014-03-02 10:31:37 AM

jakomo002: What people tend to forget is that a lot of Ukrainians want nothing to do with the EU.

Their fear is that once the EU calls in the IMF and World Bank, they'll shove "austerity" down people's throats and they'll be thoroughly farked. Or Latvia-ed.


True, but a lot of those same people don't want to have a President that's a corrupt puppets of Putin.
 
2014-03-02 10:32:00 AM

K3rmy: bah, it was nothing more than an attempted land grab.  Putin had no muscle behind it and he knew it.  He withdrew the troops as he knew that they could not withstand  a wayward wind blowing to hit them and Hopey McChange was not a person he could show his face in the world after (appearing to be) punked down.  This is not to say that Russia has no forces worth reckoning with - they simply did not send any to play in Crimea.

Putin is not done there yet.  He is plotting. . .scheming.  The US may currently have a helmet-headed special needs child as president but those types tend to hit hard.  (The exception was Chimpy McFlightsuit who was too busy spending time at his ranch at the beginning of his first term to do anything of consequence)


Except for everything you wrote, you're exactly right.
 
2014-03-02 10:37:35 AM
So let's see here.  Russia sends in unmarked commandos as "gunmen" and has them "occupy" a government building.  Then he sends in marked troops in order to "protect" the russian speaking population from the "gunmen" occupying the government building.  Suddenly lo and behold the gunmen are nowhere to be seen, the "protestors" are gone, and all is suddenly safe.

Does that about sum things up?
 
2014-03-02 10:39:30 AM

hobbes0022: This doesn't even feel real, major modern countries like Russia still invade their neighbors?  They didn't even call them an axis of evil.


Nobody batted an eye when France decided to invade the Maldives last year...and nobody gave to shiats that Ethiopia got tired of Somalia's crap and invaded them either.  But when Russia moves troops into a part of Ukraine that already has a huge Russian military presence like their entire Black Sea naval fleet it's all hands on deck.  Not like the US ever "invaded" a country to protect "it's interests."
 
2014-03-02 10:40:46 AM

czetie: hobbes0022: This doesn't even feel real, major modern countries like Russia still invade their neighbors?  They didn't even call them an axis of evil.

If Putin insists that sending troops into another country is "legitimately protecting Russia's interests" just because some of them are ethnically Russian, then I have a horrible feeling that we're all about to learn the Russian words for "Lebensraum" and "Volksdeutsche".

Also noteworthy that Putin doesn't feel at all the same way about ethnic non-Russians who want to break away from Russia...


Exactly.  What's to stop Putin from suggesting large portions of his population start moving into Poland, Lithuania, Hungary, Bulgaria, etc?  There are some in each country already, he just needs to get a big enough minority.  Then if there is a (manufactured) political struggle, he can send in troops to "protect his people".  He will already have set precedent in Georgia and Crimea.
 
2014-03-02 10:42:21 AM

DanInKansas: Rhino_man:
Thanks for making a foe where there wasn't one before, Romney. Good farkin' job.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!  That was funny.  Yes, Putin, the former KGB op and mob boss, was a Russian Pope Francis and general good buddy to the Free World before Mitt Romney hurt his feelings.

Go back to Theodore Roosevelt and the end of the Russian-Japanese war.  Russians have not particularly had warm feelings about America or its intentions towards them for at least 110 years now. Probably didn't help when we invaded in 1919, considering Americans are still carrying paper on the English for burning down the White House in 1812.


Don't be naive.

Diplomatically, there's a *vast* difference between seeing someone as a bad guy and formally, publicly stating it. Witness Dubya's top-late backpedaling on his "axis of evil" speech. A secret but budding rapprochement with Iran, including active cooperation on hunting terrorists, was stopped cold and in fact reversed as a result.

No one is saying Putin was a good guy. But once a President publicly declares him to be evil-- even if that declaration happens only while a nominee-- a lot of diplomatic options get pulled off the table.

Only an idiot voluntarily reduces his own room for maneuver. Only an ignorant fool-- or a selfish, politicking one-- reduces the country's diplomatic options. Mittens was all these things.

Obama almost certainly knew what Putin was. But he, or at least the advisors he listened to, were smart enough to finesse it and leave as many cards to play as possible.
 
2014-03-02 10:43:21 AM

hotrod2001: hobbes0022: This doesn't even feel real, major modern countries like Russia still invade their neighbors?  They didn't even call them an axis of evil.

Nobody batted an eye when France decided to invade the Maldives last year...and nobody gave to shiats that Ethiopia got tired of Somalia's crap and invaded them either.  But when Russia moves troops into a part of Ukraine that already has a huge Russian military presence like their entire Black Sea naval fleet it's all hands on deck.  Not like the US ever "invaded" a country to protect "it's interests."


So only the US' actions are worthy of protest. Gotcha. Anyone else, and we're supposed to support it.

/I protested the Iraq War, too
 
2014-03-02 10:44:39 AM

hotrod2001: hobbes0022: This doesn't even feel real, major modern countries like Russia still invade their neighbors?  They didn't even call them an axis of evil.

Not like the US ever "invaded" a country to protect "it's interests."




Oh yeah? Name 75-80 examples.
 
2014-03-02 10:47:20 AM
From here:  http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10669670/Ukr a ine-live.html

There 's one adult, one troll, and one person with their underpants pulled over their head. Try to guess which is which.

15.01 John Kerry has appeared on the Sunday morning political show "Face the Nation," on CBS.
He said: "You just don't in the 21st century behave in 19th century fashion by invading another country on completely trumped up pre-text."

15.13 Buzzfeed's foreign editor  Miriam Elder breaks news that sanctions have already started - but Russia against the US: "Now it's serious. Russia's state-run Channel One says it won't air the Oscars tonight because of events in Ukrainehttp://t.co/K2obfcH0Wt"

15.14 Dmitry Peskov, Putin's spokesman, was asked what he thought of John Kerry condemning Russia's "incredible act of aggression" and "19th century" behaviour: "No comment at the moment."
 
2014-03-02 10:47:52 AM

hobbes0022: This doesn't even feel real, major modern countries like Russia still invade their neighbors?  They didn't even call them an axis of evil.


That's because if you look into Putin's soul, he's a real Man's man- someone to be admired. He's a true leader, not like the Socialist/Marxist we have.
 
2014-03-02 10:48:29 AM

the_end_is_rear: In the Conservative bastion of Placer County.
We have a few mega evangelical churches here.
I have relatives that attend one.
They are so hoping this is the big one.

Me, I am the agnostic liberal black sheep of the family.


Haha, Bayside?
 
2014-03-02 10:50:30 AM
So serious question, if Canada or Mexico was having the sort of instability verging on a civil war that the Ukraine is having right now, who in here thinks the US would not get involved?
 
2014-03-02 10:53:46 AM

youmightberight: Rhino_man: youmightberight: You're blind if you couldn't see Putins desire for power - the man has been pm or president for almost 15 years - he "won" 99% of the vote in Chechnya - you know that place that has been fighting Russia for almost a decade now?

For an informed person your lack of information on this topic makes me sad - go study and come back to the conversation later.

You're a damned fool if you think I'm not aware of Putin's desire for power.  brimed03 said it very well:

brimed03: This. As I said in the previous Crimea thread, perhaps Obama saw the threat just as clearly as Mittens, but was smart enough to prevent limiting our diplomatic options by not making an open enemy of Putin.
You know, not hamstringing a decade of national policy for a couple of temporary poll points. Thinking presidentially, one might say.

When Russia's behaving in public, YOU DON'T WAVE YOUR DICK AT THEM.  If you wave your dick at Russia, Russia acts a fool.  So once again, good job Romney.

So we agree that Putin is after as much power and land as possible starting small with Georgia and now taking bits of Ukraine - but you are failing to recognize that Putin would use anything as an excuse to take more land/power.

We're litterally watching a defacto dictator pull a hitler and even WITH histories example you're siding with the dictator.


You're a farking idiot.
 
2014-03-02 10:54:09 AM

Oldiron_79: So serious question, if Canada or Mexico was having the sort of instability verging on a civil war that the Ukraine is having right now, who in here thinks the US would not get involved?


Have you LOOKED at Mexico over the past 50 years?
 
2014-03-02 10:55:36 AM

utah dude: Rhino_man: utah dude: don't worry, Russia's not a threat according to BlackJesus. HeavenForbid RichMormon had something to say about this months ago,

MR. ROMNEY: Excuse me. It's a geopolitical foe. And I said in the same - in the same paragraph, I said, and Iran is the greatest national security threat we face. Russia does continue to battle us in the U.N. time and time again. I have clear eyes on this. I'm not going to wear rose-colored glasses when it comes to Russia or Mr. Putin, and I'm certainly not going to say to him, I'll give you more flexibility after the election. After the election he'll get more backbone.

... and after that comment, Putin stepped up his sabre-rattling because he suddenly realized that 47% of voting Americans agreed with a guy who wanted to wave his dick at Russia on TV.

Thanks for making a foe where there wasn't one before, Romney. Good farkin' job.

of course BlackJesus is the only begotten sent free of sin to save us all. of course. drop me a phat bassline for some dance competition, brother.


You're a racist, an idiot, a poor troll, and a pitiful excuse of an aglet.
 
2014-03-02 10:57:49 AM

jayphat: Animatronik: JonnyG: Behind all the smokescreens, this is quite simple and the US is far from clean. The US has installed a leader sympathetic to them. If that leader takes hold, it means very bad things for Russia. Russia does not want that leader because, well, it would be very bad for them (financially). This is a battle over money and nothing more. The US is just as guilty in this situation - they just choose their words more carefully so that the peoples can absorb them with less guilt.

Where do you live?


I was shocked to discover that there are a number of Russia expats who really believed that Stalin was a nice guy, a strong leader who took charge. That all the propaganda wasn't true, that he didnt murder 10s of millions in the 30s.

It's quite plausible that many Russiansfeel the same way about Putin, who is mild in comparison

The stuff you are saying here is pure garbage and Russian propaganda. It doesn't fool anybody. I'll see what else you post before flagging you.

So, I'm not the only one thinking this guy is full if shiat?


He is full of shiat.

If you think clearly about what has happened, Russia tried to bribe Ukraine with 15 billion into accepting closer ties, and it didn't work.

Whereas the U.S. only recently offered 1 billion in loan guarantees. The Russian puppet killed more than 100 demonstrators before running away, people who were demonstrating for what they believe in. So with no puppet Moscow sends in troops. The Soviet Union has been dissolved, Ukraine is yours no more, Russia. Get over it.

Ukraine historically had the misfortune of sitting between th hammer and the anvil, but they should be allowed to choose their own destiny rather than be a satellite of Moscow controlled by Russian bureaucrats.
 
2014-03-02 10:58:14 AM
generallyso: hobbes0022: This doesn't even feel real, major modern countries like Russia still invade their neighbors?  They didn't even call them an axis of evil.

Maybe the Russian public isn't stupid enough to swallow such ham-fisted propaganda.

You haven't been watching much Russian media then recently.  Russian propaganda today is so blatant it would make goebbels blush.  I watche a video a few days ago where they had quite literally shown pictures of Berkut riot police shooting protesters in kiev where they had crudely photoshopped out the word "berkut" from the back of their uniforms and claimed that it was fascist-neo-nazi-EU death squads gunning down passersby.   "shameless propaganda" is too kind.

Folks, the US may have a lot of problems, but other places are far worse.  Putin's Russia is one of them.
 
2014-03-02 10:59:09 AM
If Russia get's to invade Ukraine, then America should be allowed to Annex Canada.  At least the good parts.  I mean what's good for the goose and all...
 
2014-03-02 10:59:40 AM
From http://www.cbsnews.com/news/john-kerry-warns-of-consequences-for-russ i a-after-ukraine-invasion/

Kerry said on "Face the Nation" Sunday, adding that Russia has violated Ukraine's sovereignty and several of its obligations under international agreements. "You just don't in the 21st Century behave in 19th Century fashion by invading another country on completely trumped up pretext."

Satire is truly dead.
 
2014-03-02 11:00:10 AM

vygramul: Oldiron_79: So serious question, if Canada or Mexico was having the sort of instability verging on a civil war that the Ukraine is having right now, who in here thinks the US would not get involved?

Have you LOOKED at Mexico over the past 50 years?


Exactly, the U.S. could have invaded Mexico with all sorts of pretexts. Political instability, murder of citizens in Ciudad Juarez, etc.
 
2014-03-02 11:03:51 AM
Oldiron_79: So serious question, if Canada or Mexico was having the sort of instability verging on a civil war that the Ukraine is having right now, who in here thinks the US would not get involved?

So serious answer: what russia has done is basically invaded and taken over cozumel while there was some unrest in Mexico city.  Do you think that an appropriate response to any sort of political disturbance in mexico city would be to suddenly invade cancun or cozumel and attach it to the USA?

Please, stop trying to justify the unjustifiable and don't even think of that ludicrous "protecting their base" excuse (protecting from what?)   Russia's actions are reprehensible here.
 
2014-03-02 11:05:33 AM
Bomb Head Mohammed:
You haven't been watching much Russian media then recently.  Russian propaganda today is so blatant it would make goebbels blush.  I watche a video a few days ago where they had quite literally shown pictures of Berkut riot police shooting protesters in kiev where they had crudely photoshopped out the word "berkut" from the back of their uniforms and claimed that it was fascist-neo-nazi-EU death squads gunning down passersby.   "shameless propaganda" is too kind.

Folks, the US may have a lot of problems, but other places are far worse.  Putin's Russia is one of them.


I caught RT overseas in Laos and they had a two hour long talk show seriously discussing if 9/11 and Sandy Hook were false flag operations and had some blubbering vagina from infowars sharing his "thoughts."

I would mock it but I know some underprivileged, uneducated Russia in some far off province is taking it seriously because that is the only news they can get.  Absurd.
 
2014-03-02 11:06:59 AM
I know who's responsible for this...
img.fark.net
 
2014-03-02 11:07:18 AM

hobbes0022: This doesn't even feel real, major modern countries like Russia still invade their neighbors?  They didn't even call them an axis of evil.


Bush and Pooty were such great friends!
 
2014-03-02 11:07:48 AM

lobotomy survivor: From http://www.cbsnews.com/news/john-kerry-warns-of-consequences-for-russ i a-after-ukraine-invasion/

Kerry said on "Face the Nation" Sunday, adding that Russia has violated Ukraine's sovereignty and several of its obligations under international agreements. "You just don't in the 21st Century behave in 19th Century fashion by invading another country on completely trumped up pretext."

Satire is truly dead.


If by that you mean the U.S. invasion of Iraq, you must be forgetting the truce after the first gulf war and Hussein's violations of agreements. While it's true that we should have stayed out of Iraq, there was legal justification. In the case of Afghanistan, the U.S. was attacked first, it's as simple as that.

And finally, anyone can see that there is no annexation going on in those places.

Unfortunately, a lie sounds the same as the truth if you don't have all the facts.
 
2014-03-02 11:09:42 AM

Bomb Head Mohammed: Oldiron_79: So serious question, if Canada or Mexico was having the sort of instability verging on a civil war that the Ukraine is having right now, who in here thinks the US would not get involved?

So serious answer: what russia has done is basically invaded and taken over cozumel while there was some unrest in Mexico city.  Do you think that an appropriate response to any sort of political disturbance in mexico city would be to suddenly invade cancun or cozumel and attach it to the USA?

Please, stop trying to justify the unjustifiable and don't even think of that ludicrous "protecting their base" excuse (protecting from what?)   Russia's actions are reprehensible here.


Russia's actions are pertnear exactly what even the dimmest of farkers were predicting a few days ago. She hasn't even done anything but move some troops around.

I mean, yeah, it's an unusual situation, but nobody's combating.
 
2014-03-02 11:12:01 AM

Some Coke Drinking Guy: If Russia get's to invade Ukraine, then America should be allowed to Annex Canada.  At least the good parts.  I mean what's good for the goose and all...


The parts with maple syrup and mustard pickles. And maybe rhubarb jam. Oh yeah, and we get our pick of the hockey players. And they have to waive the visitors fee for camping in Banff.
 
2014-03-02 11:12:59 AM
as posted on https://www.facebook.com/euromaidanpr

Historical parallells...
"More than 10 million Germans are living in countries, situated close to our borders. There should be no doubts that political separation from the Reich should not lead to the abolishment of their rights, and particularly, their main right - the right of self-determination. The great German state is intolerant to understanding, that our blood-brethren, who support us with all hearts, undergo cruel persecution and tortures for their desire to be united with our nation, to share its destiny. The interests of the German Reich include protection of those Germans, who continue to live along our borders, but who cannot independently protect own political and spiritual freedom." 
A. Hitler, February 20th 1938.
 
2014-03-02 11:13:26 AM

Some Coke Drinking Guy: If Russia get's to invade Ukraine, then America should be allowed to Annex Canada.  At least the good parts.  I mean what's good for the goose and all...


They can keep Quebec. The rest, sounds OK to me.
 
2014-03-02 11:14:29 AM
Nervous smiles, waving Russian flags.

/still betting on Monday.
 
2014-03-02 11:16:12 AM

ransack.: Bomb Head Mohammed: Oldiron_79: So serious question, if Canada or Mexico was having the sort of instability verging on a civil war that the Ukraine is having right now, who in here thinks the US would not get involved?

So serious answer: what russia has done is basically invaded and taken over cozumel while there was some unrest in Mexico city.  Do you think that an appropriate response to any sort of political disturbance in mexico city would be to suddenly invade cancun or cozumel and attach it to the USA?

Please, stop trying to justify the unjustifiable and don't even think of that ludicrous "protecting their base" excuse (protecting from what?)   Russia's actions are reprehensible here.

Russia's actions are pertnear exactly what even the dimmest of farkers were predicting a few days ago. She hasn't even done anything but move some troops around.

I mean, yeah, it's an unusual situation, but nobody's combating.


Make no mistake, cornering an outnumbered military on their own home soil and demanding their unconditional surrender is far more than just moving some troops around.  Nobody's fired yet because the Russians first moved through areas where they knew there was no Ukrainian presence, then besieged Ukrainian positions with vastly superior numbers.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/maxseddon/russian-troops-swarm-crimea
 
2014-03-02 11:17:17 AM

ransack.: Bomb Head Mohammed: Oldiron_79: So serious question, if Canada or Mexico was having the sort of instability verging on a civil war that the Ukraine is having right now, who in here thinks the US would not get involved?

So serious answer: what russia has done is basically invaded and taken over cozumel while there was some unrest in Mexico city.  Do you think that an appropriate response to any sort of political disturbance in mexico city would be to suddenly invade cancun or cozumel and attach it to the USA?

Please, stop trying to justify the unjustifiable and don't even think of that ludicrous "protecting their base" excuse (protecting from what?)   Russia's actions are reprehensible here.

Russia's actions are pertnear exactly what even the dimmest of farkers were predicting a few days ago. She hasn't even done anything but move some troops around.

I mean, yeah, it's an unusual situation, but nobody's combating.


Well at least Obama woke up if folks like you haven't. Russia is moving tanks out of Sebastopol and Ukraine is mobilizing. Russia has voted to use force anywhere in Ukraine and there is much talk there about threats against Russians in Ukraine. If Russia moves out of Crimea, this will escalate and the U.S. will essentially cease negotiating with Russia on friendly terms. Beyond that, who can say, but it will be the start of a new cold war. It won't even matter if the Russians don't annex all of Ukraine, they'll be a pariah, an outcast to Europe and the West.
 
2014-03-02 11:18:14 AM

Animatronik: lobotomy survivor: From http://www.cbsnews.com/news/john-kerry-warns-of-consequences-for-russ i a-after-ukraine-invasion/

Kerry said on "Face the Nation" Sunday, adding that Russia has violated Ukraine's sovereignty and several of its obligations under international agreements. "You just don't in the 21st Century behave in 19th Century fashion by invading another country on completely trumped up pretext."

Satire is truly dead.

If by that you mean the U.S. invasion of Iraq, you must be forgetting the truce after the first gulf war and Hussein's violations of agreements. While it's true that we should have stayed out of Iraq, there was legal justification. In the case of Afghanistan, the U.S. was attacked first, it's as simple as that.

And finally, anyone can see that there is no annexation going on in those places.

Unfortunately, a lie sounds the same as the truth if you don't have all the facts.


I have a hard time understanding people using the term "legal" in relation to international events.

All sovereign nations are free to do as they please, in reality. An act being considered "illegal" means that you will be punished by your government if you are proven to have done this. There is no government of international events. These things are controlled by worthless promises made in the past, and weapons. Every government must ultimately be expected to do what is most beneficial to its population, if it's a decent government.

I would not expect or desire my government to do something that was ultimately not in the best interests of the majority of the citizenry, treaties be damned.
 
2014-03-02 11:22:57 AM

Oldiron_79: So serious question, if Canada or Mexico was having the sort of instability verging on a civil war that the Ukraine is having right now, who in here thinks the US would not get involved?


So serious answer: HELL NO. The U.S.would not invade either unless a foreign power intervened.

Serious question: Did we ever make a serious attempt to invade Cuba, which is 200 miles from the U.S.??
 
2014-03-02 11:24:07 AM

ransack.: All sovereign nations are free to do as they please, in reality. An act being considered "illegal" means that you will be punished by your government if you are proven to have done this. There is no government of international events. These things are controlled by worthless promises made in the past, and weapons. Every government must ultimately be expected to do what is most beneficial to its population, if it's a decent government.


You sound Israeli.

There is the UN, the ICC, treaty organizations and this strange thing called International Law.  Countries can break those laws with impunity (like the US, Russia, DKRP), but it is still illegal and contrary to international law.
 
2014-03-02 11:24:33 AM

Animatronik: Oldiron_79: So serious question, if Canada or Mexico was having the sort of instability verging on a civil war that the Ukraine is having right now, who in here thinks the US would not get involved?

So serious answer: HELL NO. The U.S.would not invade either unless a foreign power intervened.

Serious question: Did we ever make a serious attempt to invade Cuba, which is 200 miles from the U.S.??


And by intervene, I mean send an army in, not attempt to influence. Or if there was an invasion of U.S. territory.
 
2014-03-02 11:27:20 AM

Animatronik: Oldiron_79: So serious question, if Canada or Mexico was having the sort of instability verging on a civil war that the Ukraine is having right now, who in here thinks the US would not get involved?

So serious answer: HELL NO. The U.S.would not invade either unless a foreign power intervened.

Serious question: Did we ever make a serious attempt to invade Cuba, which is 200 miles from the U.S.??


You might want to add some qualifiers there... like... did we ever make a serious attempt to invade  Communist Cuba?

Cause, as worded, that question doesn't support your point.

/1895, 1912, 1916.  Especially 1916.
 
2014-03-02 11:27:59 AM
I fear for the "journalists" at Fox News if this all turns out to be a big nothing, especially if it turns out that U.S. diplomacy helped resolve it peacefully. Can you die of blue balls?
 
2014-03-02 11:31:30 AM

jakomo002: ransack.: All sovereign nations are free to do as they please, in reality. An act being considered "illegal" means that you will be punished by your government if you are proven to have done this. There is no government of international events. These things are controlled by worthless promises made in the past, and weapons. Every government must ultimately be expected to do what is most beneficial to its population, if it's a decent government.

You sound Israeli.

There is the UN, the ICC, treaty organizations and this strange thing called International Law.  Countries can break those laws with impunity (like the US, Russia, DKRP), but it is still illegal and contrary to international law.


Born and raised Hoosier, actually. Except for July 30-August 1 2004, I've been in America my whole life.

There's no law without enforcement. Who do you think has the most power to enforce?
 
2014-03-02 11:31:36 AM

Animatronik: Animatronik: Oldiron_79: So serious question, if Canada or Mexico was having the sort of instability verging on a civil war that the Ukraine is having right now, who in here thinks the US would not get involved?

So serious answer: HELL NO. The U.S.would not invade either unless a foreign power intervened.

Serious question: Did we ever make a serious attempt to invade Cuba, which is 200 miles from the U.S.??

And by intervene, I mean send an army in, not attempt to influence. Or if there was an invasion of U.S. territory.


www.voltairenet.org
If that damn Kennedy hadn't been in the way......
 
2014-03-02 11:39:20 AM

lobotomy survivor: From http://www.cbsnews.com/news/john-kerry-warns-of-consequences-for-russ i a-after-ukraine-invasion/

Kerry said on "Face the Nation" Sunday, adding that Russia has violated Ukraine's sovereignty and several of its obligations under international agreements. "You just don't in the 21st Century behave in 19th Century fashion by invading another country on completely trumped up pretext."

Satire is truly dead.


You know why the UN never sanctioned the U.S. for Iraq? Not because of our Security Council veto; they never VOTED to sanction the U.S. Because even without WMDs, Iraq had been violating UN post-Gulf-War resolutions since the early '90s, and the U.S. invaded in pursuit of enforcing those resolutions. The U.S. invasion of Iraq was unnecessary and ill-advised, and the occupation was utterly incompetent, but it wasn't illegal.

Russia doesn't even have a fig leaf here, and if they don't cut it out, the international response to their invasion of Afghanistan is going to look like a loving hug. Russia can't afford to be cut off from international trade; their entire economy is dependent on exporting oil and gas to Europe.
 
2014-03-02 11:40:03 AM

Animatronik: Oldiron_79: So serious question, if Canada or Mexico was having the sort of instability verging on a civil war that the Ukraine is having right now, who in here thinks the US would not get involved?

So serious answer: HELL NO. The U.S.would not invade either unless a foreign power intervened.

Serious question: Did we ever make a serious attempt to invade Cuba, which is 200 miles from the U.S.??


www.forensicgenealogy.info
 
2014-03-02 11:43:07 AM

Animatronik: Animatronik: Oldiron_79: So serious question, if Canada or Mexico was having the sort of instability verging on a civil war that the Ukraine is having right now, who in here thinks the US would not get involved?

So serious answer: HELL NO. The U.S.would not invade either unless a foreign power intervened.

Serious question: Did we ever make a serious attempt to invade Cuba, which is 200 miles from the U.S.??

And by intervene, I mean send an army in, not attempt to influence. Or if there was an invasion of U.S. territory.


Plotting multiple times to actually assassinate Castro, Cuba's leader, surely counts as influence.

Militarily, financially, and diplomatically supporting countless Central and South American BRUTAL dictatorships surely counts as influence.  It's also the main reason C & SA keep electing leftist leaders with huge public support and why the US is almost entirely omitted from trade deals in the region.

US hypocrisy is particularly hilarious when they tell Russia to stop meddling in Ukraine, because we already know full well the US has been meddling for months.  Directly and by proxy.
 
2014-03-02 11:44:32 AM

Animatronik: JonnyG: Behind all the smokescreens, this is quite simple and the US is far from clean. The US has installed a leader sympathetic to them. If that leader takes hold, it means very bad things for Russia. Russia does not want that leader because, well, it would be very bad for them (financially). This is a battle over money and nothing more. The US is just as guilty in this situation - they just choose their words more carefully so that the peoples can absorb them with less guilt.

Where do you live?


I was shocked to discover that there are a number of Russia expats who really believed that Stalin was a nice guy, a strong leader who took charge. That all the propaganda wasn't true, that he didnt murder 10s of millions in the 30s.

It's quite plausible that many Russiansfeel the same way about Putin, who is mild in comparison

The stuff you are saying here is pure garbage and Russian propaganda. It doesn't fool anybody. I'll see what else you post before flagging you.


i59.tinypic.com
 
2014-03-02 11:46:15 AM

jakomo002: Except their former satellites were actively and aggressively recruited into NATO by the West.
I mean, how is it that  ALL these countries suddenly get membership into NATO between 1999 and 2004?  The NORTH ATLANTIC Treaty Organization.

Czech Republic  Warsaw Pact 1955-1991
 Hungary Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1991.
 Poland Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1990.
 Bulgaria Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1991.
 Estonia Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1991
 Latvia Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1991
 Lithuania Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1991
 Romania Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1991.
 Slovakia Member of the rival Warsaw Pact 1955-1991 as part of Czechoslovakia.
 Slovenia Previously part of Yugoslavia 1945-1991 (Non-aligned)


There's nothing like being afraid of Russia invading you again to motivate you join an alliance that hasn't invaded you, given the Russian Empire's history.
 
2014-03-02 11:48:48 AM

ransack.: There's no law without enforcement. Who do you think has the most power to enforce?


That's the joke.  The US has the most power to enforce, and is also the world's greatest aggressor and biggest threat to world peace... Also not a member of the ICC.

Do you think Russia would get the okay to uses drones to kill "suspected Chechen terrorists" in, say, Guatemala?
 
2014-03-02 11:48:50 AM
Everything about Vladimir Putin smacks of "overcompensation."  He is a deeply insecure man, leading a deeply insecure country, and he is willing to do whatever it takes to get the international community to take him seriously.

All Obama needs to do in this situation is to avoid giving him the international validation that he craves.  Russia is simply no longer an international superpower, and their military has not been maintained to modern standards since the fall of the Soviet Union.  Russia wants this to be the "clash of civilizations" that never materialized out of the cold war.  They want to be treated as equals, when they simply aren't.
 
2014-03-02 11:51:20 AM

demaL-demaL-yeH: There's nothing like being afraid of Russia invading you again to motivate you join an alliance that hasn't invaded you, given the Russian Empire's history.


I'm Hungarian, so you won't get any argument here.
 
2014-03-02 11:56:09 AM

JonnyG: Animatronik: JonnyG: Behind all the smokescreens, this is quite simple and the US is far from clean. The US has installed a leader sympathetic to them. If that leader takes hold, it means very bad things for Russia. Russia does not want that leader because, well, it would be very bad for them (financially). This is a battle over money and nothing more. The US is just as guilty in this situation - they just choose their words more carefully so that the peoples can absorb them with less guilt.

Where do you live?


I was shocked to discover that there are a number of Russia expats who really believed that Stalin was a nice guy, a strong leader who took charge. That all the propaganda wasn't true, that he didnt murder 10s of millions in the 30s.

It's quite plausible that many Russiansfeel the same way about Putin, who is mild in comparison

The stuff you are saying here is pure garbage and Russian propaganda. It doesn't fool anybody. I'll see what else you post before flagging you.


Ok I'm impressed, that's much better.
 
2014-03-02 11:56:57 AM

SirEattonHogg: Waxing the tadpole?  Is that a real expression?


s3.amazonaws.com

How to lift one eyebrow in 7 easy steps
 
2014-03-02 11:58:37 AM

JonnyG: Behind all the smokescreens, this is quite simple and the US is far from clean. The US has installed a leader sympathetic to them. If that leader takes hold, it means very bad things for Russia. Russia does not want that leader because, well, it would be very bad for them (financially). This is a battle over money and nothing more. The US is just as guilty in this situation - they just choose their words more carefully so that the peoples can absorb them with less guilt.


these words - they do not mean what you think they do.
 
2014-03-02 12:00:28 PM

Animatronik: Animatronik: Oldiron_79: So serious question, if Canada or Mexico was having the sort of instability verging on a civil war that the Ukraine is having right now, who in here thinks the US would not get involved?

So serious answer: HELL NO. The U.S.would not invade either unless a foreign power intervened.

Serious question: Did we ever make a serious attempt to invade Cuba, which is 200 miles from the U.S.??

And by intervene, I mean send an army in, not attempt to influence. Or if there was an invasion of U.S. territory.


Spanish-American War?

Bay of Pigs wasn't "the army", but was a CIA-trained army.
 
2014-03-02 12:03:00 PM

Some Coke Drinking Guy: If Russia get's to invade Ukraine, then America should be allowed to Annex Canada.  At least the good parts.  I mean what's good for the goose and all...


ts2.mm.bing.net
 
2014-03-02 12:06:51 PM

elvisaintdead: JonnyG: Behind all the smokescreens, this is quite simple and the US is far from clean. The US has installed a leader sympathetic to them. If that leader takes hold, it means very bad things for Russia. Russia does not want that leader because, well, it would be very bad for them (financially). This is a battle over money and nothing more. The US is just as guilty in this situation - they just choose their words more carefully so that the peoples can absorb them with less guilt.

these words - they do not mean what you think they do.


http://news.rapgenius.com/Victoria-nuland-on-a-planned-coup-detat-in -u kraine-annotated

Stupid or ignorant ?  The above link will solve the latter.  Entire Nuland transcript.  Pretty farking clear they are meddling heavily.
 
2014-03-02 12:07:10 PM

SirEattonHogg: Waxing the tadpole?  Is that a real expression?


New one to me.
 
2014-03-02 12:22:50 PM

czetie: K3rmy: bah, it was nothing more than an attempted land grab.  Putin had no muscle behind it and he knew it.  He withdrew the troops as he knew that they could not withstand  a wayward wind blowing to hit them and Hopey McChange was not a person he could show his face in the world after (appearing to be) punked down.  This is not to say that Russia has no forces worth reckoning with - they simply did not send any to play in Crimea.

Putin is not done there yet.  He is plotting. . .scheming.  The US may currently have a helmet-headed special needs child as president but those types tend to hit hard.  (The exception was Chimpy McFlightsuit who was too busy spending time at his ranch at the beginning of his first term to do anything of consequence)

Well, that was equally idiotic no matter what direction you view it from. Spherically stupid, so to speak.


Yeah, but if you view it from outside our dimensions, it's a flat circle.
 
2014-03-02 12:23:10 PM

udhq: Everything about Vladimir Putin smacks of "overcompensation."  He is a deeply insecure man, leading a deeply insecure country, and he is willing to do whatever it takes to get the international community to take him seriously.

All Obama needs to do in this situation is to avoid giving him the international validation that he craves.  Russia is simply no longer an international superpower, and their military has not been maintained to modern standards since the fall of the Soviet Union.  Russia wants this to be the "clash of civilizations" that never materialized out of the cold war.  They want to be treated as equals, when they simply aren't.


It's because he's 5'5" and has no chest hair
 
2014-03-02 12:24:52 PM

organizmx: Question for those who know more than me: why not just let Crimea "rejoin" Russia? Wouldn't that be better than all out war between Ukraine and Russia?


i53.photobucket.com
 
2014-03-02 12:47:52 PM

czetie: Rhino_man: czetie: hobbes0022: This doesn't even feel real, major modern countries like Russia still invade their neighbors?  They didn't even call them an axis of evil.

If Putin insists that sending troops into another country is "legitimately protecting Russia's interests" just because some of them are ethnically Russian, then I have a horrible feeling that we're all about to learn the Russian words for "Lebensraum" and "Volksdeutsche".

Also noteworthy that Putin doesn't feel at all the same way about ethnic non-Russians who want to break away from Russia...

Farking THIS.  The whole thing has just been echoes of "DANZIG IST DEUTSCHE" to me.

I was thinking more of the Sudetenland, but yeah, Danzig works too.


Right after hosting an Olympic games too...
 
2014-03-02 12:56:33 PM

lifeboat: [oi62.tinypic.com image 618x347]


I very nearly just scrolled right by this thinking it was the usual "This business..." deal, but bravo. Best laugh I've had this week.
 
2014-03-02 01:07:00 PM
Ukraine navy chief switches allegiance to Crimea pro-Russia authorities

I was just thinking that perhaps there's another possibility we might consider. The Ukraine navy chief might be trying to defect.

avalanche: lifeboat: [oi62.tinypic.com image 618x347]

I very nearly just scrolled right by this thinking it was the usual "This business..." deal, but bravo. Best laugh I've had this week.


Awesome.  :)
 
2014-03-02 01:24:51 PM
jakomo002:

I mean, how is it that  ALL these countries suddenly get membership into NATO between 1999 and 2004?

Some people blame the Jews. It can go like this: first they united the various German statelets under the Kaiser so they could start WW1, then all that economic hell in the '20s & '30s to make way for Hitler, then they started WW2 to get themselves genocided so they could blackmail the West into helping them start Israel, then... And if course their weapons and plots also include nuclear physics, evolution, plate tectonics, Marxism, Freudianism, diamonds, gold, the Illuminati, the Mormons, the polio vaccine, HIV, water fluoridation, shape-shifting reptilians and Obama.

However, it was really a carrot-and-stick strategy by the West and the World Bank/IMF: the carrot was lots of money and active help in stabilizing their new "democracies" under the leadership of local elite factions, with the stick being further destabilization by Western secret agencies and international financial institutions leading to disintegration of the countries or at least destruction of those local elites that wanted economic and political control of them. It was surely no coincidence, nor was it all the fault of Russia (or the USSR), and much of it was very publicly reported in the world press at the time. Often they even named names of the various so-called leaders involved in "bringing Democracy and Free Enterprise" to their countries; a few of them even got Nobel Peace Prizes.

That is they did to the various Ex-Warsaw Pact states pretty much what the Stalinists did to them after WW2, except they used lawyers and money more than guns. Stalin had the victorious Red Army, the NKVD and compliant "Communist" parties; the West had the World Bank, NATO and the secret agencies (CIA, MI6, etc. etc. etc.).

As an example of what would happen to these countries if they didn't knuckle under, look at the former Yugoslavia. "Do you really want that to happen to Poland?"
 
2014-03-02 01:32:06 PM

The One True TheDavid: jakomo002:

I mean, how is it that  ALL these countries suddenly get membership into NATO between 1999 and 2004?

Some people blame the Jews. It can go like this: first they united the various German statelets under the Kaiser so they could start WW1, then all that economic hell in the '20s & '30s to make way for Hitler, then they started WW2 to get themselves genocided so they could blackmail the West into helping them start Israel, then... And if course their weapons and plots also include nuclear physics, evolution, plate tectonics, Marxism, Freudianism, diamonds, gold, the Illuminati, the Mormons, the polio vaccine, HIV, water fluoridation, shape-shifting reptilians and Obama.

However, it was really a carrot-and-stick strategy by the West and the World Bank/IMF: the carrot was lots of money and active help in stabilizing their new "democracies" under the leadership of local elite factions, with the stick being further destabilization by Western secret agencies and international financial institutions leading to disintegration of the countries or at least destruction of those local elites that wanted economic and political control of them. It was surely no coincidence, nor was it all the fault of Russia (or the USSR), and much of it was very publicly reported in the world press at the time. Often they even named names of the various so-called leaders involved in "bringing Democracy and Free Enterprise" to their countries; a few of them even got Nobel Peace Prizes.

That is they did to the various Ex-Warsaw Pact states pretty much what the Stalinists did to them after WW2, except they used lawyers and money more than guns. Stalin had the victorious Red Army, the NKVD and compliant "Communist" parties; the West had the World Bank, NATO and the secret agencies (CIA, MI6, etc. etc. etc.).

As an example of what would happen to these countries if they didn't knuckle under, look at the former Yugoslavia. "Do you really want that to happen to Poland?"


How much do you have invested in tin foil stocks?
 
2014-03-02 01:47:27 PM

Bomb Head Mohammed: Oldiron_79: So serious question, if Canada or Mexico was having the sort of instability verging on a civil war that the Ukraine is having right now, who in here thinks the US would not get involved?

So serious answer: what russia has done is basically invaded and taken over cozumel while there was some unrest in Mexico city.  Do you think that an appropriate response to any sort of political disturbance in mexico city would be to suddenly invade cancun or cozumel and attach it to the USA?

Please, stop trying to justify the unjustifiable and don't even think of that ludicrous "protecting their base" excuse (protecting from what?)   Russia's actions are reprehensible here.


Im not saying they are right, just saying I understand.
 
2014-03-02 02:15:58 PM

K3rmy: bah, it was nothing more than an attempted land grab.  Putin had no muscle behind it and he knew it.  He withdrew the troops as he knew that they could not withstand  a wayward wind blowing to hit them and Hopey McChange was not a person he could show his face in the world after (appearing to be) punked down.  This is not to say that Russia has no forces worth reckoning with - they simply did not send any to play in Crimea.

Putin is not done there yet.  He is plotting. . .scheming.  The US may currently have a helmet-headed special needs child as president but those types tend to hit hard.  (The exception was Chimpy McFlightsuit who was too busy spending time at his ranch at the beginning of his first term to do anything of consequence)


Could you try speaking like an adult?
 
2014-03-02 02:17:14 PM

Rhino_man: youmightberight: Rhino_man: youmightberight: You're blind if you couldn't see Putins desire for power - the man has been pm or president for almost 15 years - he "won" 99% of the vote in Chechnya - you know that place that has been fighting Russia for almost a decade now?

For an informed person your lack of information on this topic makes me sad - go study and come back to the conversation later.

You're a damned fool if you think I'm not aware of Putin's desire for power.  brimed03 said it very well:

brimed03: This. As I said in the previous Crimea thread, perhaps Obama saw the threat just as clearly as Mittens, but was smart enough to prevent limiting our diplomatic options by not making an open enemy of Putin.
You know, not hamstringing a decade of national policy for a couple of temporary poll points. Thinking presidentially, one might say.

When Russia's behaving in public, YOU DON'T WAVE YOUR DICK AT THEM.  If you wave your dick at Russia, Russia acts a fool.  So once again, good job Romney.

So we agree that Putin is after as much power and land as possible starting small with Georgia and now taking bits of Ukraine - but you are failing to recognize that Putin would use anything as an excuse to take more land/power.

We're litterally watching a defacto dictator pull a hitler and even WITH histories example you're siding with the dictator.

You're a farking idiot.


Funny I'm thinking the same thing about you.
 
2014-03-02 02:29:52 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/03/world/europe/ukraine-turns-to-its-o l igarchs-for-political-help.html

Funny thing, how the understanding that Russia is near and the West isn't doing anything clears the brain. Ukrainian interim government suddenly turned 180 degrees in its attitude towards Eastern provinces, put local oligarchs as governors, Turchynov (that's the acting president of the new Kiev government) have vetoed Russian: "In another conciliatory gesture, Mr. Turchynov on Sunday vetoed a divisive law passed last week that would have eliminated Russian as an official second language: about half of Ukraine's population speaks Russian."

Why the hell didn't the _start_ with conciliation?! Why do you need for Russian tanks on their borders before coming back into your mind?! Now it's too late for Crimea; and we'll see if other parts of the Ukraine will accept the "gesture" or if they'll decide "to hell with Kiev".
 
2014-03-02 02:42:25 PM
Err, "vetoed ban on Russian language".

Apparently I'm too tired to write in English. I hope you get the meaning.
 
2014-03-02 02:45:17 PM
It's occurred to me recently how happy I am that we don't have a bunch of trigger-happy people in the White House right now. More than anything I don't want to get into a dick-measuring contest with Russia.

I'm getting the impression that Putin is getting a little imperialistic right now, and that's going to come back to haunt Russia in the coming decades. The short term gain may not be worth the long term losses to Russia.

People always find it hard to see from inside the situation what the possible negative outcomes may be.

Also, we  still depend on these guys for access to space.
 
2014-03-02 02:50:17 PM

AngryDragon: Mr. Shabooboo: I would call this a Volga display of power by Putin..


 It would be no different than the U.S. taking advantage of a political crisis to take over Costa Rica, simply because there are a lot of Anglo people living there.

It would be more like the US taking over Ontario from Canada


0-media-cdn.foolz.us

War.  War never changes.
 
2014-03-02 03:05:50 PM
www.washingtonpost.com

Not disappeared, just very clever disguises
 
2014-03-02 03:06:54 PM
Well, if you only care about surface appearances, sure, everything is back to normal. After all, who cares who's taken over the infrastructure, as long as they aren't openly carrying scary assault rifles?

/then the left wonders why the world keeps going crazy on them
//it's like actions matter more than words to everyone except the liberals
 
2014-03-02 04:01:53 PM
If it is true that about 50% of Ukrainians badly wanted to be part of EU, the latest shenanigans is moving away from the increasingly lengthy laundry list of things that the EU's negotiators laid out for Ukraine to do (starting in 1994) if it wanted to join.  The list is rather comprehensive and includes things like issuing passports with biometrics that meet EU standards (Poland permitted a practice visa/passport program that ultimately attracted some 1 million Ukrainians to work in Poland...France News-1 and other sources report that Poland has stopped that program).

The Ukraine also needed to have banking pratices that were up to snuff from EU standards (to keep it from being a nation that was primarily laundering money for criminal interests, for one thing).  The last four Presidents of the Ukraine (whether nationalists or not) have bemoaned the unwillingness of the Ukrainian people to do things like establish bank accounts, have a non-cash based economy, levy and pay taxes, etc.  The EU has taxes.  It isn't going to let a new state enter into even cub scout status without it jumping through some accounting hoops...

Ukraine has set itself way back on its path to the EU (the EU prefers nations whose transfer of power from one person to another doesn't involve manifestations in the streets, shooting and stuff like that).  Meanwhile, it has debts to pay and Russia was paying those debts...lots of Ukrainians know that.
 
2014-03-02 04:06:39 PM

Tatterdemalian: Well, if you only care about surface appearances, sure, everything is back to normal. After all, who cares who's taken over the infrastructure, as long as they aren't openly carrying scary assault rifles?

/then the left wonders why the world keeps going crazy on them
//it's like actions matter more than words to everyone except the liberals


What are you on about? Kerry was on all the networks this morning calling it an invasion. Who are these liberals of which you speak?

/I suspect subby is just an idiot, or a pro-Putin Russian
//but I repeat myself
 
2014-03-02 04:25:50 PM
And now the White House just released a statement that the Russian military has 'complete operational control' of the Crimean area. Russians also just cut power to the main Ukrainian naval base.
 
2014-03-02 04:28:33 PM

T-Servo: And now the White House just released a statement that the Russian military has 'complete operational control' of the Crimean area. Russians also just cut power to the main Ukrainian naval base.


And gave an ultimatum to the Ukrainians (maybe just Crimean) to disarm
 
2014-03-02 04:58:49 PM

czetie: I was thinking more of the Sudetenland, but yeah, Danzig works too.


Problem, on a map the Crimea looks geo-politically important. And it's beautiful country with a storied history dating back before the Romans.

And... it's really more of an multiethnic attractive nuisance like Palestine and Yugoslavia.
 
2014-03-02 08:14:24 PM

youmightberight: Rhino_man: youmightberight: Rhino_man: youmightberight: You're blind if you couldn't see Putins desire for power - the man has been pm or president for almost 15 years - he "won" 99% of the vote in Chechnya - you know that place that has been fighting Russia for almost a decade now?

For an informed person your lack of information on this topic makes me sad - go study and come back to the conversation later.

You're a damned fool if you think I'm not aware of Putin's desire for power.  brimed03 said it very well:

brimed03: This. As I said in the previous Crimea thread, perhaps Obama saw the threat just as clearly as Mittens, but was smart enough to prevent limiting our diplomatic options by not making an open enemy of Putin.
You know, not hamstringing a decade of national policy for a couple of temporary poll points. Thinking presidentially, one might say.

When Russia's behaving in public, YOU DON'T WAVE YOUR DICK AT THEM.  If you wave your dick at Russia, Russia acts a fool.  So once again, good job Romney.

So we agree that Putin is after as much power and land as possible starting small with Georgia and now taking bits of Ukraine - but you are failing to recognize that Putin would use anything as an excuse to take more land/power.

We're litterally watching a defacto dictator pull a hitler and even WITH histories example you're siding with the dictator.

You're a farking idiot.

Funny I'm thinking the same thing about you.


Show me where I sided with Putin... even once.  Even a little bit.
 
2014-03-02 08:49:50 PM
If Crimea wants to separate from Ukraine it's matter for Ukraine and Crimea.

Not for anybody else.  We can tip our hats at their quarrels and wander by politely.

Although there's this silly thing that the Crimean peninsula will be part of Ukraine due to simple physics and geography.  Suck it, Crimea.
 
2014-03-03 10:37:27 AM

danzak: Jeez, what's with all the Russian apologists here? Russia has invaded Ukraine's sovereignty, an action in violation of a few treaties. The fact that you can spin the facts and claim that it is "to protect" Russian speaking population is irrelevent. Crimea is not part of Russia, and the population are not Russian citizens despite the sudden availability of Russian passports. Russian speaking people were not under any direct threat either, there were some flare ups, but certainly nothing to justify the tanks moving in.

Whether Russia recognizes the new gov't in Kyiv is irrelevent too. Yanukovych was removed democratically, even his own party abandoned him. He is no longer the President of Ukraine and in fact, should be on a flight to Switzerland to face charges of mass murder.

And the east-west split in Ukraine is not as simple any more so stop thinking the East would welcome Putin. They may speak Russian in the East but they, for the most part, do not want to be part of Russia. The East was well represented both at Maidan and in regional protests.

Now, what to do? Options are limited. I think Putin is trying to antagonize the Ukrainians into firing the first shot, then he can hit hard. The fact that there wasn't some knee-jerk reaction from Ukraine probably surprised him and now he's left a bit exposed diplomatically. US troops-probably not good. NATO? Maybe send some observers or try to secure air space but not boots on the ground. Best short term option may be to do nothing but keep calm. Economic sanctions against Russia, pulling out of G8 and stopping investments in Russia, a NATO "presence" are doable options, I think.

Best course would be to continue to work with Ukraine's new gov't to stabilize the economic situation. That needs to be the first step, the uncertainty in the country now is everyone's enemy and Putin's best friend.


Quite frankly, I see this whole move as an attention-whoring dick-waving by Putin who thinks himself Peter the Great come again.

He's trying to antagonize us into firing the first shot so it can be WW3, and we cannot let that happen.
 
2014-03-03 12:11:42 PM

shortymac: Quite frankly, I see this whole move as an attention-whoring dick-waving by Putin who thinks himself Peter the Great come again.

He's trying to antagonize us into firing the first shot so it can be WW3, and we cannot let that happen.


No he's not. WW3 is a loss for him. The Russian military is hardly the beast it used to be. And it's not like a nuclear war does anything for him at all.
 
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