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(Pravda)   Ukraine declares general mobilization after Russia approves use of military force in Crimea   (english.pravda.ru) divider line 43
    More: News, Crimea, Ukraine, Russia, combat readiness, Federation Council, military, President of Russia  
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5721 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Mar 2014 at 2:27 AM (28 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-02 03:15:57 AM
6 votes:
a person on reddit gave a very sober reading of what's going on. The link to the full thing is here but here's the break down if you don't get the whole thing:

Russia controlled Ukraine for several generations as part of the USSR. After the USSR broke up, Ukraine had several governments, but mostly pro-Russian, until the recent turmoil there, which looks like it will place a less friendly-to-Moscow government in place.  Now, during the more happy days (from Moscow's POV) they had an agreement to have Russia have a military base where they have access to the Baltic Sea. This is in a place called Crimea, a small spigot of land on the aforementioned sea. This place is highly Russian in its ethnic makeup, and had a referendum coming up to determine if they'd break free, stay with Ukraine, or join Russia. Now that the newgovernment has shown up, Russia's afraid that they're going to go press on people or interfere with the refrendum leading to them losing access to their Baltic fleet.

Russia has played its cards very carefully and done nothing illegal. As of right now they've let the Crimeans run the show, and they're just reinforcing the garrisons there.  Basically, right now, Russia wants to wait it out and see what happens, while making a show of strength. "Don't get involved down there, we have the ability to stop you"

Neither side has done anything that would lead to war, and I personally don't think real war is likely. Everyone wants to avoid that.

as the commentator on reddit points out, there's 3 good end games for Russia. One, they use influence to keep the access and Crimea stays with Ukraine. Two, they use political advantage to assure the new Ukrainian government has some Crimean (thus Russian) influence, thus assuring their access and influence. Three, the referendum goes their way, and they get the whole kitten caboodle - probably Crimea joins Russia as either a satellite or just joins the Russian federation. Any of these ways, it makes Putin look strong, and helps making the Russian people feel good about themselves after botching the Olympics.

In reality this is NOT about us, and we really should not get involved unless we are specifically requested to do so. This is 50+ years of tension built up and honestly, The best outcome for Russia - one of the three listed above - matters to us not a lick. If Russia keeps its Baltic access... great. it's another place for Russia to sink money on its floating tubs of uselessness.

Oh, and just so no Right-Wingers get all crow here - the US and the President did exactly what it should do. It warned against illegal acts and is monitoring the situation. This isn't war, and it isn't likely to be unless one side does  something incredibly boneheaded. Russia's followed the book on this one. They've been careful. No cartoonish super villainy. They're not invading some poor place to keep a port, they're just defending what they have a treatied right to.

Let's just hope it stays that way.
2014-03-02 03:51:17 AM
5 votes:

saintstryfe: a person on reddit gave a very sober reading of what's going on. The link to the full thing is here but here's the break down if you don't get the whole thing:

Russia controlled Ukraine for several generations as part of the USSR. After the USSR broke up, Ukraine had several governments, but mostly pro-Russian, until the recent turmoil there, which looks like it will place a less friendly-to-Moscow government in place.  Now, during the more happy days (from Moscow's POV) they had an agreement to have Russia have a military base where they have access to the Baltic Sea. This is in a place called Crimea, a small spigot of land on the aforementioned sea. This place is highly Russian in its ethnic makeup, and had a referendum coming up to determine if they'd break free, stay with Ukraine, or join Russia. Now that the newgovernment has shown up, Russia's afraid that they're going to go press on people or interfere with the refrendum leading to them losing access to their Baltic fleet.

Russia has played its cards very carefully and done nothing illegal. As of right now they've let the Crimeans run the show, and they're just reinforcing the garrisons there.  Basically, right now, Russia wants to wait it out and see what happens, while making a show of strength. "Don't get involved down there, we have the ability to stop you"

Neither side has done anything that would lead to war, and I personally don't think real war is likely. Everyone wants to avoid that.

as the commentator on reddit points out, there's 3 good end games for Russia. One, they use influence to keep the access and Crimea stays with Ukraine. Two, they use political advantage to assure the new Ukrainian government has some Crimean (thus Russian) influence, thus assuring their access and influence. Three, the referendum goes their way, and they get the whole kitten caboodle - probably Crimea joins Russia as either a satellite or just joins the Russian federation. Any of these ways, it makes Putin look stron ...


And I was fine with that answer when I read it on Reddit, but since then it looks like the situation has changed somewhat.  Sticking with the more reputable news outlets, it still looks like Russia is more than willing to go North of Crimea.  It doesn't appear like they're 100% content to sit in Sevastapol and Simferopol and let it blow over.  Even if the Pravda article is in error (and it probably is, since it's Pravda), it's essentially a state-run newspaper, and why would a Russian state-run newspaper falsely run a story about Ukraine calling for a general mobilization against Russian forces if not to drum up sympathy for an invasion of the North?  Ukraine and Russia are at the tipping point right now, and Putin is smart enough to know that Pravda running a story like that is exactly what they don't need...

I know, I know, sensationalist media on all sides here, and I hope I'm wrong...I seriously hope Putin is level-headed enough not to start a war with a sovereign nation.  But the reaction he has had to independence bids in Chechnya and Ossetia kind of indicates to me that he wants Russia as big as possible.  With a situation like the rioting in Kiev and ousting Yanukovich, Putin probably saw an opportunity to seize Crimea at the very least (which, as I understand it, wouldn't be a region to say no to rejoining the Russian Federation), and at the very most, step in and occupy the rest of Ukraine "at the request of officials in Kiev" (how I imagine they'd put it), as they did in Afghanistan in 1979.  Like the redditor said...."Russia controlled Ukraine for several generations..."  Putin is old school.  Like, Soviet old school.  He's also an opportunist.  This is a chance for him to get back what rightfully belongs to Mother Russia...

God I hope I'm wrong though...because if I'm right, it won't end with Ukraine....
2014-03-02 03:32:19 AM
3 votes:

bigpeeler: Is that everyones kneejerk reaction to anything said against their milquetoast god, Obama? Let's see how he reacts to the forthcoming world events, then get back to me. It's time for him to pull up his big-boy pants and get to work. This situation is serious.


He doesn't have an answer, he just hates Obama.

The truth is that a President McCain or Romney wouldn't start a war with Russia either.  Though McCain would make bellicose threats to embarrass himself a lot more.

Obama and the joint chiefs have known this was likely for months.  They knew Putin's puppet was likely to fall, and that Putin wouldn't stand for it.  The war plans for this specific incursion were probably drawn up 20 years ago.  There is nothing NATO or the US can do to stop Putin taking eastern Ukraine and Crimea.  Nothing.  It is right on his door stop.  The nearest ground NATO ground forces are a 1000 mile slog. Putin's forces are a short march away.

We could hit him with air power, then he'd just attack the rest of Ukraine, maybe the Baltics.  The US and NATO are not going to attack him, though we will back Western Ukraine if it turns to a shooting war.  A move into Western Ukraine would be a hard slog for Russia.  One that with western backing, Ukraine would stand a good chance of winning.

Obama talked with Putin for 90 minutes yesterday.  He probably listed out all the ways he can make Putin's life miserable.

- Kick Russia out of the G8
- EU stops buying Russian gas and oil (petro exports to Europe are the only thing separating Russia from third-world shiatholes)
- Full NATO and EU membership for Western Ukraine, with treaty protection
- Sanctions, trade restrictions, including personal travel bans and asset seizures against Putin and his oligarchs (no more villas in the tropics)

If Putin's smart, he negotiations a way out.  Gets guarantees for his bases and greater autonomy for Crimea and eastern Ukraine.

My take is that Putin's head is blown up by his easy successes, he won't give it up the territory.  He'll earn each of those sanctions and more.  They will do tremendous economic damage to Russia.  Ten years from now, Russia will be half the power it is today.
2014-03-02 02:55:21 AM
3 votes:
With armies now being put in the field of battle, it can easily turn to shooting.

If Ukrainian forces defeat even a small contingent of Russian forces and video proof hits the airwaves, Putin may feel compelled to widen the scope of his invasion.  He's not the type to lose face easily.

Right now, there are probably CIA specialists liaising with Ukrainian forces on their weaponry and supply needs.  Unlike Syria's rebels, the mainline Ukrainian army would probably be trusted with western technology, including the latest anti-aircraft.

No one can stop Putin from taking eastern Ukraine.  Western Ukraine is now mobilizing a few hundred thousand men.  If Putin moves west, he's in for one hell of a fight.
2014-03-02 05:12:02 AM
2 votes:
This is me on the outside:

i1182.photobucket.com

While THIS is me on the inside:

i1182.photobucket.com
2014-03-02 03:01:16 AM
2 votes:
Well, Russia either found a way to split the country, or just found a way to unite it.  As for Crimea, it has an ethnic Russian majority but lots of Tatars and Ukrainians nonetheless. This will end badly no matter how it ends - either you have an exodus of Tatars and Ukrainians or and exodus of Russians.

I wonder what NATO plans on doing. This could turn into a stare-down followed by a new treaty with Ukraine retaining Crimea, or Russia could take Crimea with NATO sending a strongly worded letter but doing nothing, or any number of worse outcomes.
2014-03-02 02:51:36 AM
2 votes:

ladyfortuna: LordJiro: Yeah, real smart there, Ukraine. Instead of giving up Crimea (Mostly Russian anyway, and home to the Russian Black Sea fleet so there was no way in Hell they were going to jeopardize that), you're gonna wave your dick at Putin.

God, I hope the rest of the world isn't dumb enough to get involved.

And yet if they don't, Russia gets the green light to do whatever the fark they want.


Like secure their major military bases during massive, violent riots? Because that's all that was happening until now.
2014-03-02 02:45:39 AM
2 votes:

cc_rider: Here's a 'real' news link, and yes, things are looking kinda scary right now.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26400035

*slaps subby for linking to Pravda*

Mr Putin's request was for deployment in Ukraine as a whole, and not specifically for flashpoints such as Crimea.


Well, you coulda knocked me over with a feather.
2014-03-02 02:39:07 AM
2 votes:
Here's a 'real' news link, and yes, things are looking kinda scary right now.
 
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26400035

*slaps subby for linking to Pravda*
2014-03-02 02:34:59 AM
2 votes:
If Germany was still in charge this wouldn't be happening.
2014-03-02 02:31:35 AM
2 votes:
Maybe Ted Nugent can sign up for the draft without shiatting his pants now.
2014-03-02 05:10:16 PM
1 votes:

Wolf892: So, in laymen speak, how close are we to WW III?


farm6.staticflickr.com
2014-03-02 09:01:24 AM
1 votes:

LordJiro: Yeah, real smart there, Ukraine. Instead of giving up Crimea (Mostly Russian anyway, and home to the Russian Black Sea fleet so there was no way in Hell they were going to jeopardize that), you're gonna wave your dick at Putin.

God, I hope the rest of the world isn't dumb enough to get involved.



You're right. Ukraine should just give up the Sudetenland because Der Fuhror Putin wants it. Er I mean Crimea.
2014-03-02 05:50:30 AM
1 votes:

saintstryfe: No one will think "Gee, the US didn't support that 20 year old treaty that didn't have any repercussions outlined... better not agree to anything with them now!" Likewise with the other signatory nations.


I agree that the Budapest Memorandum has no teeth to it. In fact, it is so hilariously devoid of any actual security assurances that it makes me wonder just what the fark Ukraine was thinking when they gave up their nukes for this:

6. Ukraine, the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America will consult in the event a situation arises that raises a question concerning these commitments.

However, if the spirit of the security agreement was that Ukraine would receive our protection from external aggression in exchange for giving up nuclear weapons, then we (U.S. and U.K. at the very least) must honor that agreement. There is too much at stake to NOT do so. Mutual Defense Treaties with United States will become meaningless if the U.S. picks and chooses and when it will or will not fulfill contractual obligations.

That being said, we can protect Ukraine without going to war with Russia. We can send a coalition of peace keeping forces to "help Russia" stabilize the region and prevent further Russian-separatist on Ukrainian-nationalist violence. Assuming the interim Ukrainian government requests it, of course.
2014-03-02 05:49:25 AM
1 votes:
i151.photobucket.com
/oblig
2014-03-02 05:46:42 AM
1 votes:

Wolf892: So, in laymen speak, how close are we to WW III?


I know I may sound arrogant but meh. This is Russia we're talking about. Our army was built to fark them up. Thing is, America doesn't really give much of a damn about the Crimea and really doesn't want to get involved in another war, but at the same time we gotta show Putin that our balls are still hairy and that we aren't afraid to turn the Russian 20th guards Army into a large collection of burned out T-90's and depleted uranium flavored corpses if so we wanted to.

Whatever happens, the winner will be (And always will be) the American television viewing audience.
2014-03-02 04:54:15 AM
1 votes:

saintstryfe: a person on reddit gave a very sober reading of what's going on. The link to the full thing is here but here's the break down if you don't get the whole thing:

Russia controlled Ukraine for several generations as part of the USSR. After the USSR broke up, Ukraine had several governments, but mostly pro-Russian, until the recent turmoil there, which looks like it will place a less friendly-to-Moscow government in place.  Now, during the more happy days (from Moscow's POV) they had an agreement to have Russia have a military base where they have access to the Baltic Sea. This is in a place called Crimea, a small spigot of land on the aforementioned sea. This place is highly Russian in its ethnic makeup, and had a referendum coming up to determine if they'd break free, stay with Ukraine, or join Russia. Now that the newgovernment has shown up, Russia's afraid that they're going to go press on people or interfere with the refrendum leading to them losing access to their Baltic fleet.

Russia has played its cards very carefully and done nothing illegal. As of right now they've let the Crimeans run the show, and they're just reinforcing the garrisons there.  Basically, right now, Russia wants to wait it out and see what happens, while making a show of strength. "Don't get involved down there, we have the ability to stop you"

Neither side has done anything that would lead to war, and I personally don't think real war is likely. Everyone wants to avoid that.

as the commentator on reddit points out, there's 3 good end games for Russia. One, they use influence to keep the access and Crimea stays with Ukraine. Two, they use political advantage to assure the new Ukrainian government has some Crimean (thus Russian) influence, thus assuring their access and influence. Three, the referendum goes their way, and they get the whole kitten caboodle - probably Crimea joins Russia as either a satellite or just joins the Russian federation. Any of these ways, it makes Putin look stron ...


I can count at least eight million mistakes in this idiotic summary. But first, tell me more about this Crimean Baltic Fleet...
2014-03-02 04:13:33 AM
1 votes:

saintstryfe: The only people bringing up that treaty are ultra-hardline Ukrainian nationalists (whom BTW I'm entirely sympathetic to, no one should have to live under Russian control), and a few American conservatives working to discredit the President for doing exactly what he should. We are under no interdict to help a completely different Ukrainian government. Right now, Ukrainian sovereignty is not under threat. Could that change? Yes. But it'd have to be a big step up from what Russia is doing right now.


It's more than just hardline Ukrainian nationalists who are concerned with the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances. The reason it is an issue is because the failure to honor a single agreement by any of the signatory nations rightfully brings into question whether or not those nations will honor their contracts in the future.

I don't know why you think Ukrainian sovereignty isn't under threat. It most definitely is under threat. Crimea is a semi-autonomous region of Ukraine. It belongs to Ukraine. Russia has no right to mobilize troops anywhere other than in Sevastdude what the fark? Phone fark her all you want, but tell her to leave me the fark aloneapol.
2014-03-02 04:07:48 AM
1 votes:
saintstryfe:
Russia has played its cards very carefully and done nothing illegal. As of right now they've let the Crimeans run the show, and they're just reinforcing the garrisons there.  Basically, right now, Russia wants to wait it out and see what happens, while making a show of strength. "Don't get involved down there, we have the ability to stop you"


COMEDY GOLD.

There is absolutely nothing legal about having Russian soldiers in downtown sevastopol or having its armed forces (with identifying markst removed) take over the crimean parliament.  There's also nothing legal about the years of russian sovereignity-undermining actions including giving russian passports to ukrainians .

You are gullible as a box of rocks given the codswallop that russian propagandist on reddit threw your way.
2014-03-02 04:02:48 AM
1 votes:

Tuskan_Roeder: I know, I know, sensationalist media on all sides here, and I hope I'm wrong...I seriously hope Putin is level-headed enough not to start a war with a sovereign nation.  But the reaction he has had to independence bids in Chechnya and Ossetia kind of indicates to me that he wants Russia as big as possible.  With a situation like the rioting in Kiev and ousting Yanukovich, Putin probably saw an opportunity to seize Crimea at the very least (which, as I understand it, wouldn't be a region to say no to rejoining the Russian Federation), and at the very most, step in and occupy the rest of Ukraine "at the request of officials in Kiev" (how I imagine they'd put it), as they did in Afghanistan in 1979.  Like the redditor said...."Russia controlled Ukraine for several generations..."  Putin is old school.  Like, Soviet old school.  He's also an opportunist.  This is a chance for him to get back what rightfully belongs to Mother Russia...


To be fair, the generations comment was mine - the commentator didn't give that background, I did.

I think you're making Putin into too much of a cartoon character. He is not going to take a nearly sure victory - a chunk of political power in the new Ukrainian government, a new Russian Federation state, or even just a simple agreement to keep the bases in Russian control - and give that up to show how powerful he is. You're absolutely right that Putin is a opportunist. And a good opportunist as Putin is knows not to overplay your hand, or someone will call you. He goes for further control, he could lose the bases, Crimea, have major sanctions put on him and his oligarchy, have oil and gas pipelines cut off, and then face major pressure at home.

I doubt he's that much of a risk taker. I also think he learned from Chechnya and South Ossetia. He'll play this one strictly by the book and take what he can get. He can only come out looking good in this to his people if he just doesn't overplay the hand.
2014-03-02 03:48:27 AM
1 votes:

saintstryfe: Cpl.D: saintstryfe: a person on reddit gave a very sober reading of what's going on. The link to the full thing is here but here's the break down if you don't get the whole thing:


The only people bringing up that treaty are ultra-hardline Ukrainian nationalists (whom BTW I'm entirely sympathetic to, no one should have to live under Russian control), and a few American conservatives working to discredit the President for doing exactly what he should. We are under no interdict to help a completely different Ukrainian government. Right now, Ukrainian sovereignty is not under threat. Could that change? Yes. But it'd have to be a big step up from what Russia is doing right now.


They're not the only ones bringing up that treaty. The British foreign secretary is flying to Kiev to meet with the acting president of Ukraine to discuss that and more.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-26404584

"This action is a potentially grave threat to the sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity of Ukraine. We condemn any act of aggression against Ukraine," the foreign secretary said.
"I spoke to Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov to urge steps to calm this dangerous situation. I told Minister Lavrov that Britain supports the Ukrainian government's request for urgent consultations in accordance with the 1994 Budapest Memorandum signed by the UK, US, Russia and Ukraine."
2014-03-02 03:30:15 AM
1 votes:

Daedalus27: LordJiro: Yeah, real smart there, Ukraine. Instead of giving up Crimea (Mostly Russian anyway, and home to the Russian Black Sea fleet so there was no way in Hell they were going to jeopardize that), you're gonna wave your dick at Putin.

God, I hope the rest of the world isn't dumb enough to get involved.

You are assuming if Ukraine does nothing that Russia is content to only occupy Crimea.  There are many eastern provinces in Ukraine with Russian populations, economic ties to Russia, and that could be incorporated into the Russian sphere of influence. Ukraine sitting back and doing nothing could result in Ukraine losing much of it's territory with no recourse.

Mobilization and deployment of soldiers does not mean a shooting war. It is preparations for one and gives Ukraine options and some tools to use in order to stem the loss of territory. It does increase the likelihood of war, but it may also blunt further Russian territorial aspirations if there is a risk of real opposition.  It also could lead to a miscalculation by either side resulting in a situation that wasn't intended and cannot be controlled.

It is a dangerous development, but not one that is unexpected.  After all, if someone invaded the US and took Florida, we would first thank them, but also the US would take steps to protect the rest of the states so as not to lose them rather than simply relying on the words of the party who just seized territory.


Well, they can also take the Bible Belt. But no more than that.
2014-03-02 03:27:53 AM
1 votes:
img.fark.net
"not this shiat again."
2014-03-02 03:24:27 AM
1 votes:
The devil submits Pravda links.
2014-03-02 03:23:05 AM
1 votes:

saintstryfe: a person on reddit gave a very sober reading of what's going on. The link to the full thing is here but here's the break down if you don't get the whole thing:

Russia controlled Ukraine for several generations as part of the USSR. After the USSR broke up, Ukraine had several governments, but mostly pro-Russian, until the recent turmoil there, which looks like it will place a less friendly-to-Moscow government in place.  Now, during the more happy days (from Moscow's POV) they had an agreement to have Russia have a military base where they have access to the Baltic Sea. This is in a place called Crimea, a small spigot of land on the aforementioned sea. This place is highly Russian in its ethnic makeup, and had a referendum coming up to determine if they'd break free, stay with Ukraine, or join Russia. Now that the newgovernment has shown up, Russia's afraid that they're going to go press on people or interfere with the refrendum leading to them losing access to their Baltic fleet.

Russia has played its cards very carefully and done nothing illegal. As of right now they've let the Crimeans run the show, and they're just reinforcing the garrisons there.  Basically, right now, Russia wants to wait it out and see what happens, while making a show of strength. "Don't get involved down there, we have the ability to stop you"

Neither side has done anything that would lead to war, and I personally don't think real war is likely. Everyone wants to avoid that.

as the commentator on reddit points out, there's 3 good end games for Russia. One, they use influence to keep the access and Crimea stays with Ukraine. Two, they use political advantage to assure the new Ukrainian government has some Crimean (thus Russian) influence, thus assuring their access and influence. Three, the referendum goes their way, and they get the whole kitten caboodle - probably Crimea joins Russia as either a satellite or just joins the Russian federation. Any of these ways, it makes Putin look stron ...


The main legal issue, as I understand it, is many nations signed a treaty for the removal of Ukranian nukes.  Specifically, some western nations, US included, have to guarantee Ukranian sovereignty.  Additionally, Russia is not permitted to try to influence the state in a political fashion.  Russia has violated both of these specific items in the agreement.  Technically, we're treaty-bound to start kicking Russian arse if they in fact do go full invasion.  And they very well might.

I'm a bit fuzzy on the details, because this has all gone down while I've mostly been officing, so if I'm off anywheres, feel free to correct.
2014-03-02 03:20:14 AM
1 votes:

Asa Phelps: bigpeeler: joonyer:

3.5/10

Is that everyones kneejerk reaction to anything said against their milquetoast god, Obama? Let's see how he reacts to the forthcoming world events, then get back to me. It's time for him to pull up his big-boy pants and get to work. This situation is serious.

So, what would a president with balls do?

We're all waiting to hear.


In a previous thread somebody questioned a troll about what "standing up" to Putin meant.  The answer offered was, basically, "standing up" but written in different words.  It circled like that for a while.

I'm guessing this dude is going to do the same thing, if he does anything at all.  He'll probably 1) make the same empty statements about "getting tough", or "manning up", or, 2) selectively respond to more recent posts and drop the same old "Obama needs to step it up" lines to new and unsuspecting victims.

Obama just called me, and told me his red line is two posts.  The dude gets two posts to engage in conversation until he gets the plonk.

/pulls pants up so high my balls hang out
2014-03-02 03:16:44 AM
1 votes:

HotWingAgenda: We should probably keep an eye on the Doomsday Clock, juuuuust in case it starts inching towards midnight again. Right now, we're still 5 minutes to midnight, but it's been that way since 2012.


I would only agree that a symbolic clock is as nourishing to the intellect as a photograph of oxygen to a drowning man.
2014-03-02 03:14:04 AM
1 votes:

Asa Phelps: bigpeeler: joonyer:

3.5/10

Is that everyones kneejerk reaction to anything said against their milquetoast god, Obama? Let's see how he reacts to the forthcoming world events, then get back to me. It's time for him to pull up his big-boy pants and get to work. This situation is serious.

So, what would a president with balls do?

We're all waiting to hear.


You might want to sit down for this ...
img1.wfrcdn.com
2014-03-02 03:11:58 AM
1 votes:
We should probably keep an eye on the Doomsday Clock, juuuuust in case it starts inching towards midnight again. Right now, we're still 5 minutes to midnight, but it's been that way since 2012.
2014-03-02 03:10:31 AM
1 votes:

Testiclaw: bigpeeler: Is that everyones kneejerk reaction to anything said against their milquetoast god, Obama? Let's see how he reacts to the forthcoming world events, then get back to me. It's time for him to pull up his big-boy pants and get to work. This situation is serious.

Testiclaw: What would you have Obama do, in this case, specifically?

[0.tqn.com image 270x301]


His posts have made it obvious that what he wants is for Obama to have big balls and to pull up his pants so high that his balls will be visible. Then with his huge cameltoe on display, Ukraine and Russia will have no choice but to get along. This is pretty basic stuff.
2014-03-02 03:01:35 AM
1 votes:
Those tytushki stooges in eastern  Ukraine are gonna be pissed when they discover Putin only wants the Crimea and not the rest of basket-case Ukraine.
2014-03-02 03:00:54 AM
1 votes:
joonyer:

3.5/10

Is that everyones kneejerk reaction to anything said against their milquetoast god, Obama? Let's see how he reacts to the forthcoming world events, then get back to me. It's time for him to pull up his big-boy pants and get to work. This situation is serious.
2014-03-02 02:57:44 AM
1 votes:

LordJiro: Yeah, real smart there, Ukraine. Instead of giving up Crimea (Mostly Russian anyway, and home to the Russian Black Sea fleet so there was no way in Hell they were going to jeopardize that), you're gonna wave your dick at Putin.

God, I hope the rest of the world isn't dumb enough to get involved.


You are assuming if Ukraine does nothing that Russia is content to only occupy Crimea.  There are many eastern provinces in Ukraine with Russian populations, economic ties to Russia, and that could be incorporated into the Russian sphere of influence. Ukraine sitting back and doing nothing could result in Ukraine losing much of it's territory with no recourse.

Mobilization and deployment of soldiers does not mean a shooting war. It is preparations for one and gives Ukraine options and some tools to use in order to stem the loss of territory. It does increase the likelihood of war, but it may also blunt further Russian territorial aspirations if there is a risk of real opposition.  It also could lead to a miscalculation by either side resulting in a situation that wasn't intended and cannot be controlled.

It is a dangerous development, but not one that is unexpected.  After all, if someone invaded the US and took Florida, we would first thank them, but also the US would take steps to protect the rest of the states so as not to lose them rather than simply relying on the words of the party who just seized territory.
2014-03-02 02:57:35 AM
1 votes:

juvandy: ladyfortuna: And yet if they don't, Russia gets the green light to do whatever the fark they want.

To some extent, we don't have the right to tell them they can't.  Even in the best circumstances our military isn't in any place to do anything about it (short of nukes), unless there is also a commitment from Germany and Poland at a minimum.  We've overextended our commitments, and at some point it's gonna bite us.


You'll note the words 'United States' never appeared in my post. I was speaking hypothetically... if 'the world' lets Russia steam roll through with no protest or a mere 'on paper' condemnation... what message does that send? Putin has already shown his teeth on the international stage.
2014-03-02 02:56:59 AM
1 votes:

super_grass: I bet this will erupt into civil war:

[www.washingtonpost.com image 850x593]


2010 election results.

img.fark.net

With props to 100 Watt Walrus for posting this in another thread.

So divide the country with a wall. Maybe draw some kind of metallic drape.
2014-03-02 02:53:18 AM
1 votes:
jaypgreene.files.wordpress.com

"Patience, Highlander. You have done well. But it will take time. There are generations being born and dying. You're at one with all living things. Each man's thoughts and dreams are yours to know. You have power beyond imagination. Use it well my friend. Don't lose your head."

/Best. Bond Movie. EVER
2014-03-02 02:48:57 AM
1 votes:

Wolf892: So, in laymen speak, how close are we to WW III?


somewhere between "gonna start on Wednesday" and "Probably nothing to worry about"
2014-03-02 02:46:47 AM
1 votes:

JonBuck: Oh, wait.  Pravda.


There is no truth in Pravda.
2014-03-02 02:44:25 AM
1 votes:
Yeah, real smart there, Ukraine. Instead of giving up Crimea (Mostly Russian anyway, and home to the Russian Black Sea fleet so there was no way in Hell they were going to jeopardize that), you're gonna wave your dick at Putin.

God, I hope the rest of the world isn't dumb enough to get involved.
2014-03-02 02:42:38 AM
1 votes:
We need to defend our agreement with them, or we will never have a country be willing to give up their nuclear arsenal for empty promises.  I hate saying that because I dont want to have my country involved in war, but if we dont keep our word, we're never going to be able to negotiate in good faith again.
2014-03-02 02:35:37 AM
1 votes:
Half a league, half a league,
Half a league onward,
All in the valley of Death,
Rode the six hundred.
'Forward, the Light Brigade!
Charge for the guns' he said:
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.

'Forward, the Light Brigade!'
Was there a man dismay'd?
Not tho' the soldiers knew
Some one had blunder'd:
Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die:
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.

Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon in front of them
Volley'd and thunder'd;
Storm'd at with shot and shell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of Hell
Rode the six hundred.

Flash'd all their sabres bare,
Flash'd as they turned in air
Sabring the gunners there,
Charging an army while
All the world wonder'd:
Plunged in the battery-smoke
Right thro' the line they broke;
Cossack and Russian
Reel'd from the sabre-stroke
Shatter'd and sunder'd.
Then they rode back, but not
Not the six hundred.

Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon behind them
Volley'd and thunder'd;
Storm'd at with shot and shell,
While horse and hero fell,
They that had fought so well
Came thro' the jaws of Death,
Back from the mouth of Hell,
All that was left of them,
Left of six hundred.

When can their glory fade?
O the wild charge they made!
All the world wonder'd.
Honour the charge they made!
Honour the Light Brigade,
Noble six hundred!
2014-03-02 02:30:12 AM
1 votes:
Oh, wait.  Pravda.
2014-03-02 02:08:28 AM
1 votes:
Shiat just got realer.
 
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