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(Daily Mail)   Pardon sought for Texas man convicted of murder as evidence uncovered revealing prosecutor's cover up. Congratulatory cards can be sent care of Rose Hill Cemetery   (dailymail.co.uk ) divider line
    More: Sad, Texas, Aryan Brotherhood, Cameron Todd Willingham, Innocence Project, fire protection, Barry Scheck, St. Patrick's Day Parade  
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10511 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Mar 2014 at 12:18 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-02 12:21:59 AM  
I think the last killer pardoned in Texas was when Bush pardoned Henry Lee Lucas.
 
2014-03-02 12:23:21 AM  
I think one of the most heartbreaking things I've ever seen, was in one of the documentaries about his case, where half the small Texas town he used to live in swore up and down that, no matter what evidence came through, that they just knew he'd killed his family and deserved to fry.
 
2014-03-02 12:28:30 AM  
His trial was bullshiat and he deserves to be cleared, even if it's too late.

This is just another reason to avoid Texas.
 
2014-03-02 12:29:08 AM  
I am pro-death penalty, but you better be goddamn sure you got the right person before you execute them (see James Holmes, Jared Loughner,etc)
 
2014-03-02 12:30:10 AM  
This fella is dead and the state of Tejas will never admit that it made a mistake.

/same as it ever was...
 
2014-03-02 12:32:46 AM  
Pretty sure Texas can just claim Stand Your Ground and move on.
 
2014-03-02 12:33:06 AM  
The prosecutor should get the chair.
 
2014-03-02 12:35:49 AM  
Perry won't pardon him.  He's too pro death penalty and it would prove the system fallible.

The pardon will eventually be granted, but not until there's a lesser douchbag running the state.
 
2014-03-02 12:38:25 AM  

Zagloba: I think one of the most heartbreaking things I've ever seen, was in one of the documentaries about his case, where half the small Texas town he used to live in swore up and down that, no matter what evidence came through, that they just knew he'd killed his family and deserved to fry.


Yeah it was Frontline on PBS

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/death-by-fire/

It's terrible.  While his story is fishy at first, all of the physical evidence that points to him starts to break down when put under a microscope.  Zagloba is dead on, the backwoods retards handling the arson investigation simply refuse to believe they could possibly be wrong about their conclusions.  As do many of the folks in the town, despite a fair amount of actual evidence to the contrary. Sad indeed.
 
2014-03-02 12:38:49 AM  

EbolaNYC: The prosecutor should get the chair.


Nope.  Hang him.  The rope is recycleable
 
2014-03-02 12:39:08 AM  

cretinbob: I am pro-death penalty, but you better be goddamn sure you got the right person before you execute them (see James Holmes, Jared Loughner,etc)


There should be some "obvious" evidence. It should be irrefutable. Testimonies, lack of proper alibi or even conclusive DNA tests should not be enough for the death penalty.

Death penalty should only be considered in the type of cases where you mostly go to trial to see how guilty you are, not so much as whether you are or not. And even then I'm not so sure.
 
2014-03-02 12:39:19 AM  

EbolaNYC: The prosecutor should get the chair.



Nah, they just get appointed judge. Don't forget the Micheal Morton case from last year -   http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/04/justice/exonerated-prisoner-update-micha el-morton/
 
2014-03-02 12:40:34 AM  
The New Yorker did a great article on this, showing the ridiculous pseudoscience an "expert" offered under oath.
 
2014-03-02 12:41:07 AM  
Texas has had some real doozies over the years and this isn't the last one by a long shot. Embarrassment after embarrassment... at least some get overturned before the execution takes place.
 
2014-03-02 12:41:30 AM  
The adversarial legal system sucks if you don't have money.
 
2014-03-02 12:42:42 AM  
 
2014-03-02 12:44:34 AM  
How strange. Who would have thought that a convicted criminal would lie about something like that just to get out of jail a few months sooner and not think about the life he destroys by doing so?  It seems as if in this case they happened to rely on the one person within the US penal system who was surprisingly to everybody not an upstanding caring and truth loving human being.
 
2014-03-02 12:45:42 AM  
Read about this a few years ago after hearing about it on Fark.
The holes in the flawed forensic evidence regarding how and why the fire started and spread alone should have been enough to give him a pardon.
 
2014-03-02 12:45:43 AM  
I try not to be "that guy", but really? Daily fail? If you're going to have a good ol' fashioned rage thread, at least link to a site that isn't regularly full of crap.
 
2014-03-02 12:47:09 AM  
You can't take it back, and you can't take it with you.

When is Jesus coming back, again?
 
2014-03-02 12:48:43 AM  

cretinbob: I am pro-death penalty, but you better be goddamn sure you got the right person before you execute them (see James Holmes, Jared Loughner,etc)


I'm pro-death penalty, but only if the judge and prosecutor gets fried if they're ever found to have wrongfully fried someone.  

It's both fair, and would ensure that they approach the matter with the gravity it deserves.
 
2014-03-02 12:51:15 AM  

TedCruz'sCrazyDad: EbolaNYC: The prosecutor should get the chair.


Nah, they just get appointed judge. Don't forget the Micheal Morton case from last year -   http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/04/justice/exonerated-prisoner-update-micha el-morton/


What's been the outcome of that? Weren't they prosecuting that judge?
...
He resigned. Okay. And... ten years in prison, okay that's fair I guess. Wait, ten DAYS? Aw, fark no.
 
2014-03-02 12:51:53 AM  

TedCruz'sCrazyDad: I think the last killer pardoned in Texas was when Bush pardoned Henry Lee Lucas.


He wasn't pardoned so much as Bush commuted Lucas's death sentence.
 
2014-03-02 12:55:40 AM  

dusty15893: Zagloba: I think one of the most heartbreaking things I've ever seen, was in one of the documentaries about his case, where half the small Texas town he used to live in swore up and down that, no matter what evidence came through, that they just knew he'd killed his family and deserved to fry.

Yeah it was Frontline on PBS

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/death-by-fire/

It's terrible.  While his story is fishy at first, all of the physical evidence that points to him starts to break down when put under a microscope.  Zagloba is dead on, the backwoods retards handling the arson investigation simply refuse to believe they could possibly be wrong about their conclusions.  As do many of the folks in the town, despite a fair amount of actual evidence to the contrary. Sad indeed.


i think this can be accounted for by confirmation bias, it doesn't mater what information comes out later once you've decided something is true then you just mold everything to fit that narrative, this accounts for a lot of false convictions.
 
2014-03-02 12:58:44 AM  

RandomRandom: Perry won't pardon him.  He's too pro death penalty and it would prove the system fallible.

The pardon will eventually be granted, but not until there's a lesser douchbag running the state.


Perry has blood on his hands because he knew there was a problem with the trial and signed the death warrent any way.  That fine Christian gentleman built his career on the bodies of innocent men.
 
2014-03-02 01:00:55 AM  

China White Tea: cretinbob: I am pro-death penalty, but you better be goddamn sure you got the right person before you execute them (see James Holmes, Jared Loughner,etc)

I'm pro-death penalty, but only if the judge juryand prosecutor gets fried if they're ever found to have wrongfully fried someone.  

It's both fair, and would ensure that they approach the matter with the gravity it deserves.


Fixed that for you since Judges don't determine guilt.
 
2014-03-02 01:01:05 AM  
Was this the one where the "arson expert" (who had been a key expert witness in hundreds of spurious arson convictions) claimed evidence of pooled gasoline or some shiat even though a chemical analysis said otherwise? The guy who basically walked through a scene and made shiat up that had no relation to actual science? Or am I thinking of some other horrifying miscarriage of justice?
 
2014-03-02 01:01:55 AM  

dusty15893: Zagloba: I think one of the most heartbreaking things I've ever seen, was in one of the documentaries about his case, where half the small Texas town he used to live in swore up and down that, no matter what evidence came through, that they just knew he'd killed his family and deserved to fry.

Yeah it was Frontline on PBS

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/death-by-fire/

It's terrible.  While his story is fishy at first, all of the physical evidence that points to him starts to break down when put under a microscope.  Zagloba is dead on, the backwoods retards handling the arson investigation simply refuse to believe they could possibly be wrong about their conclusions.  As do many of the folks in the town, despite a fair amount of actual evidence to the contrary. Sad indeed.


Ugh. I support the death penalty in the most extreme cases, but it seems that Texas doesn't really put many resources into determining whether it's truly warranted or not.
 
2014-03-02 01:02:28 AM  
This is exactly why I'm against the death penalty.  You can't take it back, you can't make amends, you can't pay restitution...if the state farks up, there's no going back.  That isn't to say that some people don't deserve the death penalty...it's just that if one innocent person dies as a result, the penalty is irrevocably flawed.

I've brought up this case before, the fact that 140+ death row inmates have had their convictions overturned as a result of DNA evidence, as well as the case of Corey Maye and the West Memphis 3 as examples of how the justice system is flawed. Fortunately, the West Memphis 3 and Corey Maye are now free...but they were on death row.
 
2014-03-02 01:03:24 AM  

Smeggy Smurf: EbolaNYC: The prosecutor should get the chair.

Nope.  Hang him.  The rope is recycleable


You mean use it with the prosecutor like a yo-yo?

That works for me.
 
2014-03-02 01:03:32 AM  
They at least owe that man a necromancer, so he can get on with his life.

24.media.tumblr.com
 
2014-03-02 01:04:49 AM  
Isn't this the guy who was only concerned with getting his new car away from the fire, and spent his last words cussing out his ex-wife?
 
2014-03-02 01:04:57 AM  

shtychkn: China White Tea: cretinbob: I am pro-death penalty, but you better be goddamn sure you got the right person before you execute them (see James Holmes, Jared Loughner,etc)

I'm pro-death penalty, but only if the judge juryand prosecutor gets fried if they're ever found to have wrongfully fried someone.  

It's both fair, and would ensure that they approach the matter with the gravity it deserves.

Fixed that for you since Judges don't determine guilt.


Well, you know, only stupid people sit on juries. Smart people do everything they can not to sit, and then congratulate themselves about how clever they were to get excused. Or explain that since smart people won't get picked, why bother?
 
2014-03-02 01:05:45 AM  
I don't support the death penalty. Ever. It's barbaric, state-sponsored revenge, not 'justice', and far too many people like this have been killed who have later been found not to be guilty (or at least, their guilt was severely called into question).

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. Executing murderers and such does nothing but feed the bloodthirsty.
 
2014-03-02 01:06:43 AM  

shtychkn: China White Tea: cretinbob: I am pro-death penalty, but you better be goddamn sure you got the right person before you execute them (see James Holmes, Jared Loughner,etc)

I'm pro-death penalty, but only if the judge juryand prosecutor gets fried if they're ever found to have wrongfully fried someone.  

It's both fair, and would ensure that they approach the matter with the gravity it deserves.

Fixed that for you since Judges don't determine guilt.


But they do let bullshiat passing for evidence get used in their courts.
 
2014-03-02 01:07:29 AM  
It is completely normal for snitches to get reduced sentences.  The entire Federal drug enforcement infrastructure depends on it.
 
2014-03-02 01:07:44 AM  

cretinbob: I am pro-death penalty, but you better be goddamn sure you got the right person before you execute them (see James Holmes, Jared Loughner,etc)


I agree but the "new" evidence doesn't seem like much, sounds like he had enough to be let go or at least given a new trial.
 
2014-03-02 01:08:15 AM  
This doesn't explain the half dozen empty bottles of lighter fluid on his front porch...
 
2014-03-02 01:08:44 AM  

shtychkn: China White Tea: cretinbob: I am pro-death penalty, but you better be goddamn sure you got the right person before you execute them (see James Holmes, Jared Loughner,etc)

I'm pro-death penalty, but only if the judge juryand prosecutor gets fried if they're ever found to have wrongfully fried someone.  

It's both fair, and would ensure that they approach the matter with the gravity it deserves.

Fixed that for you since Judges don't determine guilt.


Judges determine what the juries do or don't hear. That's only a minor consideration, you think?
 
2014-03-02 01:08:57 AM  

Gyrfalcon: shtychkn: China White Tea: cretinbob: I am pro-death penalty, but you better be goddamn sure you got the right person before you execute them (see James Holmes, Jared Loughner,etc)

I'm pro-death penalty, but only if the judge juryand prosecutor gets fried if they're ever found to have wrongfully fried someone.  

It's both fair, and would ensure that they approach the matter with the gravity it deserves.

Fixed that for you since Judges don't determine guilt.

Well, you know, only stupid people sit on juries. Smart people do everything they can not to sit, and then congratulate themselves about how clever they were to get excused. Or explain that since smart people won't get picked, why bother?



Trial by magic 8-ball then?
 
2014-03-02 01:09:58 AM  
NO chance he will get a pardon from the Governor, or maybe only a slight one given it might make him look better if he has plans for another presidential run.

That said they might be better off asking Obama for  presidential pardon assuming thats possible in a state case.
 
2014-03-02 01:10:52 AM  

DrBenway: shtychkn: China White Tea: cretinbob: I am pro-death penalty, but you better be goddamn sure you got the right person before you execute them (see James Holmes, Jared Loughner,etc)

I'm pro-death penalty, but only if the judge juryand prosecutor gets fried if they're ever found to have wrongfully fried someone.  

It's both fair, and would ensure that they approach the matter with the gravity it deserves.

Fixed that for you since Judges don't determine guilt.

Judges determine what the juries do or don't hear. That's only a minor consideration, you think?


Bucky Katt: shtychkn: China White Tea: cretinbob: I am pro-death penalty, but you better be goddamn sure you got the right person before you execute them (see James Holmes, Jared Loughner,etc)

I'm pro-death penalty, but only if the judge juryand prosecutor gets fried if they're ever found to have wrongfully fried someone.  

It's both fair, and would ensure that they approach the matter with the gravity it deserves.

Fixed that for you since Judges don't determine guilt.

But they do let bullshiat passing for evidence get used in their courts.


Decisions that are also reviewed by other judges multiple times (appeals) before the final sentencing.  Still doesn't put a judges influence above that of a jurors .
 
2014-03-02 01:12:08 AM  
Even if you take Willingham's explanation for what happened in the fire at face value he still deserved to be executed.  He said that he s was napping in the back room with his 3 year old daughter Amber when she woke him up because the room filled with smoke. He said that he got up from the bed, left Amber in the room, ran down the hall past the room where his twin infants were sleeping and then exited the front of the house without even trying to save his three children.
 
2014-03-02 01:13:31 AM  
The prosecutor's theory of the case was that Willingham set the fire because he hated his wife.  Willingham's last words as the lethal injection took effect were directed as his wife: fark You, biatch!
 
2014-03-02 01:14:13 AM  
I've been anti death penalty since I first heard about The Innocence Project. They have proven over the years that the system is flawed and most likely innocent people have been executed.
 
2014-03-02 01:15:10 AM  
you seem p invested in this
 
2014-03-02 01:16:42 AM  

Gyrfalcon: shtychkn: China White Tea: cretinbob: I am pro-death penalty, but you better be goddamn sure you got the right person before you execute them (see James Holmes, Jared Loughner,etc)

I'm pro-death penalty, but only if the judge juryand prosecutor gets fried if they're ever found to have wrongfully fried someone.  

It's both fair, and would ensure that they approach the matter with the gravity it deserves.

Fixed that for you since Judges don't determine guilt.

Well, you know, only stupid people sit on juries. Smart people do everything they can not to sit, and then congratulate themselves about how clever they were to get excused. Or explain that since smart people won't get picked, why bother?


Every time I've been called for jury duty I never made it to the jury box.  I wasn't trying to get out of anything.  One time during jury selection I was explaining to the lady sitting next to me what was going on.  She didn't have a clue.  She was made the foreman of the jury and I was sent home after a peremptory challenge from one of the lawyers.
 
TWX
2014-03-02 01:18:07 AM  

cretinbob: I am pro-death penalty, but you better be goddamn sure you got the right person before you execute them (see James Holmes, Jared Loughner,etc)


That's why I'm not really pro death-penalty anymore. Too many innocent people executed. Too much uneven use of the death penalty (and other sentencing) on suspect classes. And that doesn't even begin to address "expert" witnesses like that horrible doctor that claimed to be an expert on bite marks whose fraudulent testimony got people killed by the state.

I also believe that prison should be a burden on the state and thus on society, not a vehicle for profit. Prisoners should not be forced into doing labor as a result of winning a competitive bid. Prisoners also should not be compelled into doing labor even if it's not for competitive bid, though with having all the time in the world to fill, my guess is that many prisoners would welcome an opportunity do have activities to keep busy. There should be no private prisons, there should be no profit in prisons. They should be a necessary evil of the state, and if the state finds that their prison burden is getting too high then perhaps it's time to look at what prisoners are being convicted of and if those are worthwhile convictions or not.

That said, I have no problem with firm and concise action by both law enforcement and corrections once someone has demonstrated a pattern of being willing to violate the rights of others. If one reoffends and continues to make victims of his peers, then his prison sentences should get longer each time, exponential growth in sentencing will eventually result in an offender that never is released after proving that the offender simply won't stop reoffending.
 
2014-03-02 01:21:50 AM  

DrZiffle: The New Yorker did a great article on this, showing the ridiculous pseudoscience an "expert" offered under oath.


The "counter expert" offered by the New Yorker was no better.  He is whats known as a "whore of the court" that testifies for whichever side pays him for his opinion.  In this case he was hired by an anti-death penalty advocacy group.  If the author of that New Yorker story had bothered to read Beyler's report instead of basing his article off the press release from The Innocence Project he would have noticed that Beyler only examined the photos of the burnt up house and didn't bother to actually speak to any of the firefighters or arson investigators that sifted through the ashes.  More importantly, the Beyler report does not say that the fire was not arson... it says that he could not make a finding of arson based on the photos.  There is a big difference but The New Yorker, FrontLine, and 20/20 have an agenda to push and ratings to protect.  This was a "Man Bites Dog" story if there ever was one.
 
2014-03-02 01:21:54 AM  

Gyrfalcon: Well, you know, only stupid people sit on juries.


Not true.  It really depends on the person and the type of jury.

There are smart retired people that like being on juries.  They'll act dumb to keep from being booted.

There are some judges who won't accept any excuse short of imminent death.  For grand juries, there are no peremptory challenges, so the smart people aren't automatically culled.
 
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