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(MSN) NewsFlash Russian troops invade the Crimean region of Ukraine. This will not end well   (news.msn.com) divider line 94
    More: NewsFlash, Crimean, Carnegie Moscow Center, Russians, Ukraine, Vladimir Putin, South Ossetia, Russian troops, Yulia Tymoshenko  
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9482 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Mar 2014 at 5:59 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Archived thread
2014-03-01 06:47:03 PM  
5 votes:
I think we should do nothing.

Do not speak in specifics or generality.

Just keep out of it.

But if the President does have to do something, send over a group of diplomats to try and resolve the issue as peacefully as possible.

And make sure that the diplomats are gay - that way, we rub Putin's face in it and make sure that the most important issue in the world is resolved.
2014-03-01 06:05:44 PM  
5 votes:
Eh, it's in their backyard and they have a huge naval base there. I'd be surprised if they didn't move troops in. We'd do the same thing in that situation.
2014-03-01 06:48:14 PM  
4 votes:
We have about as much control over Russia invading Crimea as Russia would have over us invading Juarez, Mexico. And about as much of an interest in stopping it as they would, too.

I know the chicken hawk neocons in this country go absolutely apeshiat whenever another country does something militarily because in their world America must ALWAYS do something to stop it. But most of those nutjobs couldn't point Crimea out on a map, so they can eff off as always.
2014-03-01 06:02:59 PM  
4 votes:
Nope, and it'll be the women who suffer the most. As usual.

There will be international outrage over all the rape and murder that will ensue.

And not a damn thing will change or be done about it.
2014-03-01 05:54:52 PM  
4 votes:
How does the United States credibly object to this when the United States congress voted to authorize President Bush to invade a country half a world away from the United States.

/reap what you sow...
2014-03-01 08:19:07 PM  
3 votes:

Keith Dudemeister: Dude, stop being reasonable and realistic about this whole thing. You rational summary is ruining it for everyone.


Sorry, but the narcassim of Superpower Hangover combined with pure partisan hackery really bothers me. I guess part of the problem is that us Americans have not had a form of "Ethnic Nationalism" since the Civil War so it's difficult for a lot of us to wrap our noggins around the way Europe sees itself.
Russia crossing the border to protect ethnic Russians in Ukraine is not an anomoly in world history, in fact, that kind of action is fairly common. I though Obama's offer of International Forces was a smart choice; it makes Putin rightly look like "the bad guy" for refusing the help in favor of increasing tensions and looking like an aggressor.
Now we just need to take a step back, a little breather and see which way our allies are going to move and then do what we can to assist them. I'm far from an expert in that region, but from where I'm sitting, I don't see any reason why the US should be taking a "leadership" role in trying to solve this problem.
2014-03-01 07:58:20 PM  
3 votes:

God-is-a-Taco: IronTom:

A-10 Warthog?  We are cancelling them all and getting rid of them so EBT users can have more lobster.

Ignoring the jab at social services, does the A-10 still serve a purpose today? Legitimate question, I have no idea.


It conducts over 30% of all air support missions in Afghanistan/Iraq to date and is the aircraft the troops most like to see rolling in. Was also the most useful aircraft in Desert Storm and has a 95% mission ready rate.

Totally worthless.
2014-03-01 07:08:08 PM  
3 votes:
The Crimea was historically not a part of Ukraine. This is a recent development (1954) and disputed. Ask yourself what business is it of ours (the US) that a Russian state is protecting ethnic Russians in a traditionally Russian territory. Russia has the Black Sea Fleet based in Crimea.

I was in Ukraine when the USSR fell apart. Hungarian flags were being hoisted in the Hungarian majority areas in the west. The former USSR is a polyglot of peoples and loyalties and Ukraine is no exception.
2014-03-01 07:03:12 PM  
3 votes:
Subby, and for that matter, most of the US and US news outlets don't seem to realize that Russia did not in fact invade the Crimea, it's hard to invade something when, you know, your military has been there for almost 100 years or so. The treaties between Russia and Ukraine actually allow for free movement of Russian forces within the Crimean peninsula, legally, these guys are just out taking a stroll and loitering until they forcibly wrest control of something from the Ukrainian gov't, which they haven't. Pro-Russian Ukrainians haven't resisted, shots haven't been fired, they're essentially "occupying" the space by loitering.

Now, where things will get interesting is if they move OUT of the Crimea and into areas where they aren't allowed. Then, and only then, is there reason to expect shiat to go down in a bad way.
2014-03-01 06:37:38 PM  
3 votes:
Why do I have a feeling that if Obama announced tomorrow that he was sending troops into Ukraine to help protect its borders that the Republicans would suddenly be the biggest Pacifists on the face of the earth?
2014-03-01 06:13:23 PM  
3 votes:

Hobodeluxe: ksdanj: ManateeGag: Nabb1: I guess the speech didn't work.

What, exactly, do you want the US to do about it?

Yes, please elaborate Nabb1...

I'm going to guess he wants exactly the opposite of whatever Obama does.

they're reactionary. they don't take positions before Obama does.



Nabb1: ManateeGag: Nabb1: I guess the speech didn't work.

What, exactly, do you want the US to do about it?

I don't know, yet. Did you expect the speech to work?



Lolz. "I don't know what Obama should do, I'm just against everything he's done so far."
2014-03-01 06:11:20 PM  
3 votes:
fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net
2014-03-01 06:03:10 PM  
3 votes:
You mean like the mostly-Russian populace of Crimea asked them to?

And really, you're surprised that the Russians want to make sure they don't lose their main port on the Black Sea?

I'm no fan of Pooty-Poot, but this is not nearly as big an issue as people are whining about.
2014-03-01 05:30:49 PM  
3 votes:

texdent: Crimea a river.


You messed up the pun.
2014-03-01 09:49:44 PM  
2 votes:

Oldiron_79: I have no idea with what weapons WWIII will be fought, but WWIV will be fought with sticks and stones.

good Einstein quote, I'll answer with

WWI was the chemist's war
WWII was the physicist's war
WWW III with be fought by mathematicians
2014-03-01 09:33:29 PM  
2 votes:
I have no idea with what weapons WWIII will be fought, but WWIV will be fought with sticks and stones.
2014-03-01 07:12:25 PM  
2 votes:
Obama knows his options, and his options are crap. Putin was bound to go in if his puppet government fell.  Obama and the Joint Chiefs have known it for months. The DOD war plans for this exact eventuality were probably written up 20 years ago.

Our options suck. The nearest NATO ground forces are close to 1000 miles away from the Crimea. The Russians are marching distance.  We cannot stop him from taking eastern Ukraine.  We'd could hit him with air power, but then he'd just invade the rest of the country.  We'd eventually have to push him out at tremendous expense of lives and resources.

There is nothing President Obama, a President McCain, or a President Romney could, or would do.  Ukraine had a chance to join the EU, maybe NATO.  They voted in the wrong asshole.  It's mostly their own damn fault.

Long term though, it's not all bad. Western Ukraine will be fast tracked for EU and NATO membership. Russia will suffer harsh sanctions. Europe will accelerate their moves to wean themselves off Russian gas and oil. Russia makes almost all their money from petro dollars, this will be devastating to Russia's long-term economic prospects.

Looking back a decade from now, this will be seen as a very shortsighted move by Putin. He'll have lost a lot more than he gained.
2014-03-01 06:42:17 PM  
2 votes:

Pincy: Why do I have a feeling that if Obama announced tomorrow that he was sending troops into Ukraine to help protect its borders that the Republicans would suddenly be the biggest Pacifists on the face of the earth?


I'm sure someone would play the "Why is Obama helping the bro-Nazi rioters who overthrew a legitimately elected president?" card.
2014-03-01 06:39:59 PM  
2 votes:

SlothB77: Nothing leads to sustainable peace like a weak president unwilling to be a force for good in the world.


Nothing ensures stability and peace like a superpower nation constantly throwing itself into unrelated conflicts on the other side of the world, where no one is threatening us or our citizens, and ignoring the immediate and long-term financial and political negative effects. If only today, right now, we can show footage of american steel and brawn touching down in a country most people can't find on a map, we could be a better nation forever. Because Murica.
2014-03-01 06:39:16 PM  
2 votes:

Pincy: Why do I have a feeling that if Obama announced tomorrow that he was sending troops into Ukraine to help protect its borders that the Republicans would suddenly be the biggest Pacifists on the face of the earth?


'Why is Obama risking World War 3 over people who WANT to join Russia?! On behalf of the MUSLIM Tartars?! IMPEACH!"
2014-03-01 06:37:07 PM  
2 votes:

SlothB77: Nothing leads to sustainable peace like a weak president unwilling to be a force for good in the world.


So what should he have done, O Great Armchair General?
2014-03-01 06:15:10 PM  
2 votes:

rkiller1: This won't end well?  Frankly, it will end just fine.  Russia will take what it wants or doesn't want and the rest of the world will spout tough words for a few days but ultimately do nothing.

And ImOKwithThis.jpg


The one thing I'm wondering about is this.  Ukraine apparently controls Crimea's access to power, water, and most of its food (88 percent of its energy and 75 percent of its food come from the mainland).  What's to stop Ukraine from just shutting off the lights to Crimea and then Putin using that as an excuse to go into Ukraine, too?  Maybe I'm overthinking it, but I don't know that this is a situation that will just resolve itself itself nicely.
2014-03-01 06:14:32 PM  
2 votes:
2014-03-01 06:12:38 PM  
2 votes:
jaypgreene.files.wordpress.com

This business will get out of control. It will get out of control, and we will be lucky to live through it.
2014-03-01 06:07:32 PM  
2 votes:

MechaPyx: Eh, it's in their backyard and they have a huge naval base there. I'd be surprised if they didn't move troops in. We'd do the same thing in that situation.


Would we? Would we really invade Cuba?

One of these things is not like the other.
2014-03-01 06:05:54 PM  
2 votes:
We need to stay as far away from this as possible. Let Russia and the Ukraine have it out, keep it from spreading, and do nothing else. This is straight from the Bad Old Days, and I for one don't really want to get nuked. Except for Philadelphia, they're fair game.
2014-03-01 06:04:27 PM  
2 votes:
Putey doesn't give 2 farks about obamas warning, russians never fear strongly worded letters.
2014-03-01 06:04:26 PM  
2 votes:

ksdanj: How does the United States credibly object to this when the United States congress voted to authorize President Bush to invade a country half a world away from the United States.

/reap what you sow...


well the Ukraine had been firing repeatedly on Russian jets flying UN sanctioned air patrols and has refused to follow proscriptions levied against them by the UN
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-03-01 06:02:39 PM  
2 votes:
Crimea is gone, but we should make sure Putin knows if Kiev is threatened there will be a cruise missile with his name on it.
2014-03-02 01:48:00 AM  
1 votes:

LordJiro: Pincy: Why do I have a feeling that if Obama announced tomorrow that he was sending troops into Ukraine to help protect its borders that the Republicans would suddenly be the biggest Pacifists on the face of the earth?

'Why is Obama risking World War 3 over people who WANT to join Russia?! On behalf of the MUSLIM Tartars?! IMPEACH!"


Conversely if he does nothing, the GOP will be calling for his head.

Again, I fail to see why we should be involved at all.
2014-03-02 12:37:50 AM  
1 votes:

Oldiron_79: Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: Oldiron_79: I have no idea with what weapons WWIII will be fought, but WWIV will be fought with sticks and stones.

-Rand Paul

Not even close, that one was from Albert farking Einstein.


Rand Paul has been plagiarizing a shiatload recently, so it's become a fark meme to attribute all quotes to Rand Paul.
2014-03-02 12:03:38 AM  
1 votes:

LordJiro: You mean like the mostly-Russian populace of Crimea asked them to?

And really, you're surprised that the Russians want to make sure they don't lose their main port on the Black Sea?

I'm no fan of Pooty-Poot, but this is not nearly as big an issue as people are whining about.


Pretty Gottverdammt much. This is an issue that folks are leaping upon, because they want to make waves, and see who jumps back. These news reports have been essentially hoping for something beyond the securing of assets, putting troops into position, and oddly enough, being turned away from a few airports that they'd like to have secured, but DIDN'T FILL THE "DEFENDERS" FULL OF HOLES FOR. This is a lot of hand wringing, to make sure that folks in a region that is full of flux, full of folks who are pissed and who are looking to vent their spleen upon, and making for damn sure that their bases are stocked, manned, and defended.

THIS is the DREAM action that folks WANTED in Benghazi. Just magically making troops appear, and airlifting material for an embassy staff, as opposed to securing local naval operations base and area. THIS is what they dreamed would happen, and this is likewise the reaction that would have gotten, save several hours later, and utterly too late to make a damn bit of difference there, but in this case, it makes it for damn sure known that the Russians are ready if things go pear shaped and the Ukraine decides, "Civil war it is then."

Will they accept the Crimea into Russia if they ask? For damn sure. That is a lot less paper work for people going to and fro, and a valuable piece of land and sea. Would they like to take advantage of the chaos sown? About as much as Texans would consider a civil war in Mexico, and wonder if they couldn't just scootch the border a few miles south?

This is less WWIII than Bosnia II, only without the ethnic cleansing, and with actual assets worth holding, and quasi-legitimate claims to the use of troops before the populace starts shooting up the joint.

The hand wringing and finger pointing is just so much opportunism to place blame anywhere else but on the folks who are watching each other closely, by folks who willfully disabuse themselves that the US has any f*cking interest in the damn region, save that there are a fair number of Russian naval vessels based from there...
2014-03-01 11:43:29 PM  
1 votes:

LograyX: Agent Nick Fury: LograyX: TheWhoppah: Some of you need to take off your RedWhiteAndBlue blinders and figure out how to unfark yourselves.

Unrest in Ukraine has forced the legitimate government into hiding.  Amid the chaos, Russian interests were threatened by the extremists that have taken over Kiev.  Russia moves in to protect their legitimate historical interest in the region.   Russia doesn't even see this as an invasion... more of a peacekeeping exercise.

The legitimate government.  You mean the president that the Ukrainian Parliament voted to remove from power?  The one that was violently repressing the protestors (including using snipers to just randomly pick off people)?

Really?

After Obama backed down on Syria the media suddenly found that it wasn't Assad that used chemical weapons but the rebels themselves and Obama made a wise decision.

Now did they some how just find this fact out after Obama backed down or was the media misleading us on purpose?

[d.ibtimes.co.uk image 513x380]


Well now you totally got me there.

An internet picture of people shooting totally proves the Russians Ukrainians Syrians Rebels Jason Bournepeople are guilty of crimes against humanity and need to be punished.
2014-03-01 11:33:22 PM  
1 votes:
To be clear, if Putin wants the entirety of Eastern Ukraine, no one can stop him.  It is Putin's. NATO has the forces to damage the Russians, even to eventually push them out.  NATO cannot stop Putin from taking the territory.

The only question is whether Putin wants to pay the political price, and there are some mighty big price tags on this conquest.  Obama's 90 minute chat with Putin earlier today must have mentioned a few of them.

-The G8?  Yeah, it's called the G7 again.

-Oil and gas exports to Europe?   Petro dollars are the only thing keeping Russia from turning into Kyrgyzstan.  The Russian economy collapses if Europe stops buying gas and oil.  If he takes eastern Ukraine, the EU will move heaven and earth to wean themselves from the bear.

-This new nation of West Ukraine?  It's getting automatic admission to the EU and NATO, with full protections and US military basing rights.

That's before we even get to the sanctions, and there will be sanctions.  Putin's wealth and that of his cronies will be locked down.  Travel restrictions.  No more oligarch villa's in Monaco and Cyprus.  Imports of goods to Russia will be slowed and stopped, especially luxury goods preferred by Putin and his cronies.  Trade with Russia will be greatly diminished, in both directions.

Putin's best move right now?  Use his show of force negotiate more autonomy for Crimea and the east of Ukraine.  Then, send his troops home and declare Mission Accomplished.  He probably won't do that.  He'll probably take the entire east of Ukraine, then suffer some mighty consequences.
2014-03-01 11:15:31 PM  
1 votes:

Agent Nick Fury: LavenderWolf: Agent Nick Fury: LavenderWolf: Hobodeluxe: ksdanj: ManateeGag: Nabb1: I guess the speech didn't work.

What, exactly, do you want the US to do about it?

Yes, please elaborate Nabb1...

I'm going to guess he wants exactly the opposite of whatever Obama does.

they're reactionary. they don't take positions before Obama does.

That's just patently false!

They also take positions that are so extraordinarily abhorrent and objectionable that no sane person would agree. Like rape rape.

Ha, ha, ha - you said rape a couple of times.

That just shouts "Fark funny person" because rape is the second funniest thing on this web site next to down syndrome children.

You sir, are cutting edge hilarious.

Funny or not, it's factually accurate.

Of course it is.


Can you name a position taken by Republicans/Teabaggers that isn't reactionary or entirely abhorrent?
2014-03-01 11:04:41 PM  
1 votes:

Mentat: vygramul: So Neville Chamberlain is considered to have made a huge mistake to let Germany annex the part of Czechoslovakia that was mostly German. But the right move here is to let Russia annex the part of Ukraine that is mostly Russian?

What an odd system of logic.

What's your solution?


This is curious, why do people wanna equate Putin-Russia, with Germany-Hitler. Wow the uneducated mouth breathers get a voice ,well, Even the PNAC crew new Russia would be back on it's feet in 10-15 years from the collapse of the USSR. Well US america got to run rampage where and when they wanted but the time is up on that. Russia is standing up for itself again and IMHO you should read about past Tsars since that seems where this is going.
2014-03-01 11:04:40 PM  
1 votes:

TheWhoppah: Some of you need to take off your RedWhiteAndBlue blinders and figure out how to unfark yourselves.

Unrest in Ukraine has forced the legitimate government into hiding.  Amid the chaos, Russian interests were threatened by the extremists that have taken over Kiev.  Russia moves in to protect their legitimate historical interest in the region.   Russia doesn't even see this as an invasion... more of a peacekeeping exercise.


The legitimate government.  You mean the president that the Ukrainian Parliament voted to remove from power?  The one that was violently repressing the protestors (including using snipers to just randomly pick off people)?

And whether or not Russian sees it as an invasion, it is one.  This is not a peacekeeping mission.  If it was, they'd have gone through the UN just like we did.

It wouldn't have been hard at this point.  Putin could have even looked like a big diplomatic hero.

This is an opportunistic invasion.  It doesn't matter how many of the people in Crimea are Russian speaking (you know, after the whole purges during the Soviet Era of non-Russian speakers).  It's part of the Ukraine now.

Sadly, there's not a lot of unity in the West to make any sort of deterrent to Russia doing things like this.
2014-03-01 10:44:49 PM  
1 votes:

tinyarena: So Russia invades a majority Russian suburb of Russia. I hope all the Russians in Crimea are okay with seeing Russians. Of course some of them are probably related. Oh how are we going to liberate the Russian citizens from the Russian invasion?

/ it's a puzzlement


Neville Chamberlain might have asked the same question regarding saving German Sudetans from German annexation. All this time I was told that was wrong. Is it no longer? Are we now changing the judgment of history to, "You know, some of these invasions are really ok."
2014-03-01 10:42:10 PM  
1 votes:
2014-03-01 10:37:58 PM  
1 votes:
Some of you need to take off your RedWhiteAndBlue blinders and figure out how to unfark yourselves.

Unrest in Ukraine has forced the legitimate government into hiding.  Amid the chaos, Russian interests were threatened by the extremists that have taken over Kiev.  Russia moves in to protect their legitimate historical interest in the region.   Russia doesn't even see this as an invasion... more of a peacekeeping exercise.
2014-03-01 10:37:58 PM  
1 votes:

Mentat: vygramul: So Neville Chamberlain is considered to have made a huge mistake to let Germany annex the part of Czechoslovakia that was mostly German. But the right move here is to let Russia annex the part of Ukraine that is mostly Russian?

What an odd system of logic.

What's your solution?


Good question. I'm not sure. To be honest, part of it depends on intel to which I do not have access. One thing I found out today was that Russia's actually been planning this since the protests started. They held some exercises near Ukraine and then sent the units home, but left the supplies forward-deployed. They anticipated this.

But what to do about it can only be effectively discussed if everyone agrees it's a problem. We're not there yet, as some people don't see a problem here at all.
2014-03-01 10:35:41 PM  
1 votes:

rohar: iq_in_binary: tinfoil-hat maggie: iq_in_binary: rohar: iq_in_binary: This time there's troops on the ground and ground forces are amassing at the border. The provisional government of Ukraine has already invoked the Budapest Memorandum and many parties within their government have actively been calling for accession to Nuclear Weapon State, and our failure to recognize sections 1, 2, 3, and 6 of the Budapest Memorandum gives them standing to do so.

I would suggest that last section is utter and complete bullshiat.  As of this point, we've acted incomplete accord with the Budapest Memorandum.  Suggesting we haven't is wishing it read something that it does not.

That said, Russia was a signatory as well.  In any multilateral treaty, when one party breaks the rules, the treaty is over.  Even if we were bound to act, a signatory breached it before we could.  We're off the hook and can make any decision we damned well please.

Then we have absolutely no leg to stand on telling non NWS states that they can't develop nuclear weapons. Nuclear Estonia! YAY!

We never did but we didn't let that stop us. The International Court has not appointed the US as Sheriff and many debate it's standing.

The International Court only has teeth when everybody respects it. If the NPT goes up in smoke, so does the UN. No UN? No ICJ.

That's not what we want to happen. That's now what anybody wants to happen, including Russia.

NPT treaties with Russia are still secure as they were no stipulation on the treaty limiting which countries Russia could invade etc and none of the signatory parties have broken any part of those treaties.  The nuclear agreement we had with Ukraine was dependent on the US, England and Russia respecting Ukraine as an autonomous country.  Russia broke that, the treaty is dead.


Intresting to see there have been about 100 changes to the Budapest Memorandum's page on wikipedia in the last 2 days
2014-03-01 09:45:33 PM  
1 votes:

vygramul: tinfoil-hat maggie: Oh boy the same thread morning and evening. Is this one filled weal Farbama,s weak and we should totes go to war with Russia over this.

It is rather tiresome.


I'll drink to that.
encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com
2014-03-01 09:44:49 PM  
1 votes:

tinfoil-hat maggie: I thought they double bunked : )


It's called "hot-racking".

For a reason.
2014-03-01 09:31:32 PM  
1 votes:
We need healthcare army.
2014-03-01 09:22:38 PM  
1 votes:
We shouldn't be Russian to conclusions. I don't care if the nazi dickweasels who prompted the Kiev takeover get Puti-stomped. Ain't none of 'Murica's biz nohow.
2014-03-01 09:19:53 PM  
1 votes:

CanisNoir: Keith Dudemeister: Dude, stop being reasonable and realistic about this whole thing. You rational summary is ruining it for everyone.

Sorry, but the narcassim of Superpower Hangover combined with pure partisan hackery really bothers me. I guess part of the problem is that us Americans have not had a form of "Ethnic Nationalism" since the Civil War so it's difficult for a lot of us to wrap our noggins around the way Europe sees itself.
Russia crossing the border to protect ethnic Russians in Ukraine is not an anomoly in world history, in fact, that kind of action is fairly common. I though Obama's offer of International Forces was a smart choice; it makes Putin rightly look like "the bad guy" for refusing the help in favor of increasing tensions and looking like an aggressor.
Now we just need to take a step back, a little breather and see which way our allies are going to move and then do what we can to assist them. I'm far from an expert in that region, but from where I'm sitting, I don't see any reason why the US should be taking a "leadership" role in trying to solve this problem.


Yep, there's a huge question that no one seems to be asking, which, in Fark terms, is "WHAR EUROPE?" The silence from Western Europe is deafening. There are lots of fingers being pointed at Obama but it seems like Germany (one country away from Ukraine), for example, has a much more vested interest in resolving this peacefully.
2014-03-01 09:18:14 PM  
1 votes:
We need to stay out of this. Let them sort it out.
2014-03-01 08:56:49 PM  
1 votes:
Now that I reflect, actually Romney would have cut taxes and gone yachting while his "blind" trusts gutted a few more companies and laid off a few hundred thousand more people, and his gang of Viziers ran the Syria invasion in his name.
2014-03-01 08:53:14 PM  
1 votes:

rwhamann: Still wondering what people think Messrs McCain and Romney would have done differently.


Cut taxes and invaded Syria.
2014-03-01 08:33:47 PM  
1 votes:
I still think we should send in the Light Brigade.
2014-03-01 08:33:10 PM  
1 votes:

FuryOfFirestorm: sleeps in trees: shower_in_my_socks: We have about as much control over Russia invading Crimea as Russia would have over us invading Juarez, Mexico. And about as much of an interest in stopping it as they would, too.

I know the chicken hawk neocons in this country go absolutely apeshiat whenever another country does something militarily because in their world America must ALWAYS do something to stop it. But most of those nutjobs couldn't point Crimea out on a map, so they can eff off as always.


Can I just say this was probably the most balanced comment I've read all day.  The US has enough on it's plate.  Let someone on the other side of the pond deal with it.  If it really is offensive, sanctions would be in order.  Stop being the world police and look after your own country.  We need a strong, united US that does not have its politicians willing to let it burn to make a point.

SOMUCHTHIS. We don't need to deploy troops and act like the World Police every time Putin waves his penis around - let's concentrate on our own sh*t for the time being.


And it'll die down soon.  I guarantee 100% that Russia has ZERO interest in invading or annexing Ukraine, they'll keep them at arm's length.  Ukraine has the Tatars, who are Russia-hating Muslims, and about 12% of the population.  The last thing Russia wants is another Muslim group causing as many headaches as the Chechens.
2014-03-01 08:02:59 PM  
1 votes:

God-is-a-Taco: IronTom:

A-10 Warthog?  We are cancelling them all and getting rid of them so EBT users can have more lobster.

Ignoring the jab at social services, does the A-10 still serve a purpose today? Legitimate question, I have no idea.


There are few systems more adept at killing ground armor and providing CAS than the A-10.

Too slow to do much else, but damn good at what it does.
2014-03-01 07:58:13 PM  
1 votes:
img.fark.net
img.fark.net
2014-03-01 07:45:00 PM  
1 votes:
As with the Cuban Missile Crisis, the danger isn't in the US capability, or President Obama's policies and willingness to use force if he deems it necessary.  It's Putin's impression of Obama's and the US's resolve and ability.  Say what you will about having a crazy old man with his finger on the button in the White House, but you don't mess with the crazy.  Crazy will kill you.  Reasonable people trying to reason with unreasonable people are going be as successful as an internet argument.
2014-03-01 07:42:23 PM  
1 votes:

SlothB77: http://twitchy.com/2014/02/28/flashback-candidate-mitt-romney-ridicul e d-for-cold-war-thinking/


A heartfelt 'thank you' for reminding us that Romney is not president.
2014-03-01 07:41:04 PM  
1 votes:
soepic.pl
2014-03-01 07:37:25 PM  
1 votes:

oxnard_montalvo: Place your money on the table

[justafewthoughts.com image 850x411]
VS
[www.armyrecognition.com image 850x640]

Winner takes all!!


A-10 Warthog?  We are cancelling them all and getting rid of them so EBT users can have more lobster.
2014-03-01 07:34:04 PM  
1 votes:

OgreMagi: stratagos: OgreMagi: ManateeGag: Nabb1: I guess the speech didn't work.

What, exactly, do you want the US to do about it?

We have a treaty obligation to help the Ukraine protect their border.  I personally don't want us involved in another war, but if we don't do something our international standing will be turned to shiat (more than it is now).

We could start by immediately declaring an embargo on all business with Russia.  If we can get the other NATO members involved, it might actually get Putin's attention.  What to do next, I don't know.  But I'm a system administrator, not a diplomat who is supposed to know what to do.  I do know, however, that doing nothing is not going to help.

Wait, what? We have a treaty with them? They're in NATO?

In 1994 the US and the UK, as part of NATO, signed a treaty with the Ukraine to help them defend their borders.  In exchange, the Ukraine gave up all their nukes.  It seemed like a good idea at the time.  That treaty is still valid.


Ah, the Budapest Memorandum. Let's see...
FTF treaty:
The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine to respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine.

Looks like there is some wiggle-room there. "Respect" as in commitment but it's no oath to defend the borders. The West is going to look pretty bad if they let Russia walk allover the place unchallenged though. This is FAR worse than the Georgia situation.
2014-03-01 07:30:42 PM  
1 votes:
What should Obama do?

Stop making threats he can't back up, and stop making promises he can't keep.

Unfortunately, his political base would shiat a brick if he didn't get up there and make those empty threats and promises, because as liberal progressives will tell you, words mean everything and actions mean nothing.

/even expecting a promise to be kept is racist
2014-03-01 07:25:36 PM  
1 votes:

RandomRandom: Obama knows his options, and his options are crap. Putin was bound to go in if his puppet government fell.  Obama and the Joint Chiefs have known it for months. The DOD war plans for this exact eventuality were probably written up 20 years ago.

Our options suck. The nearest NATO ground forces are close to 1000 miles away from the Crimea. The Russians are marching distance.  We cannot stop him from taking eastern Ukraine.  We'd could hit him with air power, but then he'd just invade the rest of the country.  We'd eventually have to push him out at tremendous expense of lives and resources.

There is nothing President Obama, a President McCain, or a President Romney could, or would do.  Ukraine had a chance to join the EU, maybe NATO.  They voted in the wrong asshole.  It's mostly their own damn fault.

Long term though, it's not all bad. Western Ukraine will be fast tracked for EU and NATO membership. Russia will suffer harsh sanctions. Europe will accelerate their moves to wean themselves off Russian gas and oil. Russia makes almost all their money from petro dollars, this will be devastating to Russia's long-term economic prospects.

Looking back a decade from now, this will be seen as a very shortsighted move by Putin. He'll have lost a lot more than he gained.


I think the last part of this post is especially true.  Few wingers are recognizing how weak Putin is right now.  Russia is nearly a backwater (again), and it's only their natural resources keeping them in the game.  Western Europe finding other fuel sources or turning away in any way is a big risk for them.
2014-03-01 07:22:59 PM  
1 votes:

Keith Dudemeister: cchris_39: bobothemagnificent:

Haha yep. The enemy actually escalates DURING a call from the President warning them to stand down.

NOW you're a biatch.

You sound happy about this.


They get to portray Obama as 'weak', make their fascist, corrupt, homophobic, oligarch-loving buddy Putin look like a badass, and pretend they know more about foreign policy than the Commander-in-chief of the US military and all of his advisors.

Of course they're happy.
2014-03-01 07:22:16 PM  
1 votes:

LordJiro: Crimea, until the 50s, was Russian, not Ukrainian. And, until '91, it was still under Russian control as part of the USSR.



It was part of the Russian Empire since the 18th century, sure, but not strictly "Russian" ethnically. Until the 1900's the ethnic Russians were a minority in Crimea. The Soviets either killed or deported everyone else in the 1920's-1940's and then the land was given to Ukraine in 1954.
2014-03-01 07:13:45 PM  
1 votes:

grimlock1972: figured this would happen if Czar Putin wants the Crimea he gets the Crimea and the Russian parliament is a rubber stamp.


Things could get real messy.

That said in terms of military equip and tech the Russians are way behind the west save perhaps in fighter jets but even there i think they are in large out classed.

Putin most likely is hoping to avoid  a shooting war with any one besides Ukraine who he knows he can best, NATO he knows is another matter and the Russian Navy is a joke compared to the US and other than in subs it always was.

If it came to war and assuming it stayed on nuclear and China stayed out and Best Korea did not try any shenanigans NATO would likely drive the Russians out of the Ukraine it would be bloody on both sides.

As for Putin wanting to protect  those ethnic Russians in Ukraine if they want to be Russian so much let Putin relocate them back to Russia seeing as they were sent from Russia  in the first place.

For bonus points kick the Russians out of the black sea base and lease it to the US and watch Putin lose his shiat.


Crimea, until the 50s, was Russian, not Ukrainian. And, until '91, it was still under Russian control as part of the USSR.

They weren't 'sent' from Russia. They were BORN there, the land just changed hands.
2014-03-01 07:11:51 PM  
1 votes:
Don't you get it? We have to kill. As a nation, we simply must murder. NOBAMA should stop flip-flopping and  press the button already.ICBMs should be hurtling through the sky.  Our children should bathe in the searing rays of radiation as their skin peels and their faces melt and they die in fire or slowly over a few days. Millions upon millions must die horribly and the world must be reduced to ashes. When will SLOWBAMA act??? Why must we continue to live and breath normally? WHY OSAMA BIN BONGO? WHHHYYY??
2014-03-01 07:03:06 PM  
1 votes:

stratagos: Livinglush: Finally time to kick some ruskies.

When is your flight? You certainly wouldn't suggest getting into a fight without being willing to be one of the first casualties, *right*?


14 years and counting in the USAF. Shut the hell up.
2014-03-01 07:00:08 PM  
1 votes:

Lord_Baull: Nabb1: Lord_Baull: Hobodeluxe: ksdanj: ManateeGag: Nabb1: I guess the speech didn't work.

What, exactly, do you want the US to do about it?

Yes, please elaborate Nabb1...

I'm going to guess he wants exactly the opposite of whatever Obama does.

they're reactionary. they don't take positions before Obama does.


Nabb1: ManateeGag: Nabb1: I guess the speech didn't work.

What, exactly, do you want the US to do about it?

I don't know, yet. Did you expect the speech to work?


Lolz. "I don't know what Obama should do, I'm just against everything he's done so far."

That's what you got out of that? Man, you guys are too sensitive about that guy.

Numerous calls for you to explain post. No response. I'm open ears.


I was eating dinner with my wife and kids. Do you really expect me to drop that to meet your demand for me to explain myself? Who the f*ck do you think you are? You think you're so goddamned special that you DEMAND an explanation for every little sarcastic remark that offends your delicate political sensibilities and then feign indignation because they don't immediately drop everything and cater to your whims? Here's my explanation: get over yourself.
2014-03-01 06:57:56 PM  
1 votes:
This will end very quietly with the partition of the Ukraine.
2014-03-01 06:51:47 PM  
1 votes:

jchuffyman: Once again, do not call the country "the Ukraine" unless you are actually pro-Russian in all of this


I'll try, but if I slip, it's not because I'm pro-Russian here.  "The Ukraine" just sounds normal, like "the United States".
2014-03-01 06:51:41 PM  
1 votes:

Lord_Baull: The ranking Republican on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Sen. Bob Corker, R-Tennessee, said Obama must "lead a meaningful, unified response"



Have any of these warmongers suggested what, EXACTLY, we should do about this? And would any of their suggestions NOT end in a real life replay of the end of War Games?
2014-03-01 06:50:13 PM  
1 votes:

SlothB77: Nothing leads to sustainable peace like a weak president unwilling to be a force for good in the world.


You can always tell a chickenhawk
2014-03-01 06:47:10 PM  
1 votes:

IronTom: jchuffyman: Once again, do not call the country "the Ukraine" unless you are actually pro-Russian in all of this

What is it?


Ukraine, according to the people living there. Apparently "The Ukraine" was the approved term by the U.S.S.R., to establish it as a region, not a nation.
2014-03-01 06:44:35 PM  
1 votes:
Once again, do not call the country "the Ukraine" unless you are actually pro-Russian in all of this
jvl
2014-03-01 06:38:19 PM  
1 votes:

ManateeGag: What, exactly, do you want the US to do about it?


Difficulty: As a condition for Ukraine giving up its Nukes, the US promised to do something about it.

The Russians wouldn't be invading a nuke-armed Ukraine. This is our fault, so hand-wringing won't cut it.

The Russians will probably try to play this as "the old gov't is legit, so the US should invade the rest of the Ukraine and force them to unify with the legitimate Ukraine."  Motherbearfarkers.
2014-03-01 06:38:07 PM  
1 votes:
Damn it, Russia.
2014-03-01 06:38:02 PM  
1 votes:

StanTheMan: [fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net image 599x576]


Until the US and Russia eliminate their vast stockpiles of thermonuclear warheads, any tension between the two countries is a great threat to the entire planet. With that said, this action by Russia is really no threat to the US whatsoever.
2014-03-01 06:36:21 PM  
1 votes:
Of course, in this, Obama stands alone. Not like has an NFL team of advisors both civilan and military. He's just sorta sitting around that Oval Office watching this go down on CNN, blustering "errr well I don't know what to do! Maybe I should go ask a data-entry monkey on one of those websites, they always know what to do."
2014-03-01 06:26:48 PM  
1 votes:

Adolf Oliver Nipples: MechaPyx: Eh, it's in their backyard and they have a huge naval base there. I'd be surprised if they didn't move troops in. We'd do the same thing in that situation.

Would we? Would we really invade Cuba?

One of these things is not like the other.


Considering the unrest in the Ukraine and the strategic importance of their naval base in that area? Them moving troops in to secure it is not surprising.

Cuba is not in the least bit similar. We have a ton of naval bases we can use so losing access to Cuba wouldn't cripple our navy. Russia doesn't have the same options. They need that base a lot more than we need Cuba. And yeah, if we were in a similar situation you're damn right we'd do the same thing.
2014-03-01 06:15:55 PM  
1 votes:
The GOP has wasted no time painting this as Obama's fault:

The ranking Republican on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Sen. Bob Corker, R-Tennessee, said Obama must "lead a meaningful, unified response" to the crisis, something he has thus far failed to do.  "The Russian government has felt free to intervene militarily in Ukraine because the United States," Corker said in a statement, "along with Europe, has failed to make clear there would be serious, potentially irreparable consequences to such action."
2014-03-01 06:14:36 PM  
1 votes:
www.epiccarnage.com

RIP Your Crane
Too early?
2014-03-01 06:13:46 PM  
1 votes:

rkiller1: Boojum2k: willfullyobscure: The most famous of which is "never get involved in a land war in Asia"

Ukraine is in Europe.

Fun fact: the Ural mountains, which are west EAST of (The) Ukraine, divide Europe and Asia.
One of the few things I recall from sixth grade.


Look at a map.
2014-03-01 06:12:18 PM  
1 votes:
I don't know if they're going to bother with the rest of the Ukraine, but I know they aren't going to be giving up their naval and air assets in the Black Sea fleet. Not without a fight, and they have more military might than the Ukraine does, especially if it's in turmoil right now.

What are the Europeans going to do about it? They should certainly make sure Putin doesn't pull another Georgia, but I don't know if they really want to escalate militarily and risk global or regional war. But they certainly shouldn't just stand by and watch poor Ukraine get stomped on. Maybe they support Ukraine's military with European forces in the rest of the country while staying out of Crimea and offering Putin a bit of a diplomatic olive branch in the meantime. Like, "Hey, we understand this mess has you nervous about your bases in Crimea. We know they're very important to you, so how about you keep peace there, we keep peace here - just until the Ukrainians get their shiat together with their new government and reaffirm their commitment to you in regard to their bases there. Then once everything's settled we all pull our forces out, deal?"
2014-03-01 06:11:22 PM  
1 votes:

Agent Smiths Laugh: Nope, and it'll be the women who suffer the most. As usual.

There will be international outrage over all the rape and murder that will ensue.

And not a damn thing will change or be done about it.


Tumblr will care.
2014-03-01 06:09:46 PM  
1 votes:

Boojum2k: willfullyobscure: The most famous of which is "never get involved in a land war in Asia"

Ukraine is in Europe.


Fun fact: the Ural mountains, which are west of (The) Ukraine, divide Europe and Asia.
One of the few things I recall from sixth grade.
2014-03-01 06:08:27 PM  
1 votes:
Oh we've gotten to an exciting bit in the stage play. Now more of the audience will pay attention instead of sticking popcorn in their noses. Some will become experts.
2014-03-01 06:08:25 PM  
1 votes:

ksdanj: How does the United States credibly object to this when the United States congress voted to authorize President Bush to invade a country half a world away from the United States.

/reap what you sow...


The Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances.
2014-03-01 06:08:06 PM  
1 votes:

Agent Smiths Laugh: Nope, and it'll be the women who suffer the most. As usual.

There will be international outrage over all the rape and murder that will ensue.

And not a damn thing will change or be done about it.


If this is your biggest concern in this particular scenario, you may want to widen your blinders just a tad.
2014-03-01 06:07:50 PM  
1 votes:
"Oh GODDAMMIT!"

- Barrack Obama
2014-03-01 06:07:28 PM  
1 votes:

rnatalie: [c1.soap.com image 850x399]


I crown thee TEH WINNAR!
2014-03-01 06:07:22 PM  
1 votes:
This won't end well?  Frankly, it will end just fine.  Russia will take what it wants or doesn't want and the rest of the world will spout tough words for a few days but ultimately do nothing.

And ImOKwithThis.jpg
2014-03-01 06:06:29 PM  
1 votes:

willfullyobscure: The most famous of which is "never get involved in a land war in Asia"


Ukraine is in Europe.
2014-03-01 06:04:54 PM  
1 votes:
Putin, you fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in a land war in Asia" - but only slightly less well-known is this!

Oh never mind, that was the one.
2014-03-01 06:02:33 PM  
1 votes:

ksdanj: ManateeGag: Nabb1: I guess the speech didn't work.

What, exactly, do you want the US to do about it?

Yes, please elaborate Nabb1...


I'm going to guess he wants exactly the opposite of whatever Obama does.

they're reactionary. they don't take positions before Obama does.
2014-03-01 05:32:44 PM  
1 votes:

texdent: Crimea a river.


No one has used this pun in the past 1500000000 threads on this

You get a gold star
 
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