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(MSN) NewsFlash Russian troops invade the Crimean region of Ukraine. This will not end well   (news.msn.com) divider line 502
    More: NewsFlash, Crimean, Carnegie Moscow Center, Russians, Ukraine, Vladimir Putin, South Ossetia, Russian troops, Yulia Tymoshenko  
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9460 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Mar 2014 at 5:59 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2014-03-01 11:22:11 PM  
The Russians have really good missiles now.
 
2014-03-01 11:23:05 PM  

LavenderWolf: Agent Nick Fury: LavenderWolf: Agent Nick Fury: LavenderWolf: Hobodeluxe: ksdanj: ManateeGag: Nabb1: I guess the speech didn't work.

What, exactly, do you want the US to do about it?

Yes, please elaborate Nabb1...

I'm going to guess he wants exactly the opposite of whatever Obama does.

they're reactionary. they don't take positions before Obama does.

That's just patently false!

They also take positions that are so extraordinarily abhorrent and objectionable that no sane person would agree. Like rape rape.

Ha, ha, ha - you said rape a couple of times.

That just shouts "Fark funny person" because rape is the second funniest thing on this web site next to down syndrome children.

You sir, are cutting edge hilarious.

Funny or not, it's factually accurate.

Of course it is.

Can you name a position taken by Republicans/Teabaggers that isn't reactionary or entirely abhorrent?


Man on woman.

I know, it's reactionary and abhorrent to you but it's been around awhile.

But you're asking a question that is nonsensical without an answer because whatever the answer is you will say you disagree so it is reactionary and entirely abhorrent so go and poke somebody else.
 
2014-03-01 11:23:24 PM  

vygramul: tinfoil-hat maggie: Mentat: vygramul: So Neville Chamberlain is considered to have made a huge mistake to let Germany annex the part of Czechoslovakia that was mostly German. But the right move here is to let Russia annex the part of Ukraine that is mostly Russian?

What an odd system of logic.

What's your solution?

This is curious, why do people wanna equate Putin-Russia, with Germany-Hitler. Wow the uneducated mouth breathers get a voice ,well, Even the PNAC crew new Russia would be back on it's feet in 10-15 years from the collapse of the USSR. Well US america got to run rampage where and when they wanted but the time is up on that. Russia is standing up for itself again and IMHO you should read about past Tsars since that seems where this is going.

I'm sorry, Maggie, I love you but,

[24.media.tumblr.com image 160x250][31.media.tumblr.com image 160x250][25.media.tumblr.com image 160x250]
I want to equate it, in this narrow case, because Germany lost, against its will, large parts of its territory dominated by Germans, and when it wanted them back, history looks back on it and says they were farktards for forcing it. I don't see why Russia, which has hardly been innocent, gets a pass on this issue.

Okay, cute gifs BTW, I'm trying to say Putin/Russia will secure it's interest same as we would same as France would, same as Briton would.
\Oh and really Germany did lose a bit not sure on the Eastern front how that went so much but but well Red revolution an d all that and theTsar trained them and armed them was more interesting.
 
2014-03-01 11:23:38 PM  

tinyarena: vygramul: tinyarena: So Russia invades a majority Russian suburb of Russia. I hope all the Russians in Crimea are okay with seeing Russians. Of course some of them are probably related. Oh how are we going to liberate the Russian citizens from the Russian invasion?

/ it's a puzzlement

Neville Chamberlain might have asked the same question regarding saving German Sudetans from German annexation. All this time I was told that was wrong. Is it no longer? Are we now changing the judgment of history to, "You know, some of these invasions are really ok."

Shocking I know. You may need to sit down for this but as a matter of fact, yes, some of these 'invasions' are tolerable.

And what an invasion it is!

They've invaded their own decrepit naval bases and they're old armories. And they patrol the streets, waving to their cousins, aunts, and in-laws. The Horror.

And just what do you propose we do about it? I suppose you think the majority Russian population of Crimea will welcome us as liberators?

Russia is a damaged brand and even their oldest allies and neighbors basically want nothing to do with them now. They will probably cling to the Crimea, for all the good it'll do them.


There's a difference between the rest of the world justifying our invasion of Iraq for us and telling us we're wrong for having done it. Neither would have stopped us. But one was honest and honorable.

Simply deciding that we won't do anything about Crimea should not preclude admitting to ourselves (much less saying to anyone else) that this isn't kosher.
 
2014-03-01 11:23:53 PM  

vygramul: rohar: tinfoil-hat maggie: Mentat: vygramul: So Neville Chamberlain is considered to have made a huge mistake to let Germany annex the part of Czechoslovakia that was mostly German. But the right move here is to let Russia annex the part of Ukraine that is mostly Russian?

What an odd system of logic.

What's your solution?

This is curious, why do people wanna equate Putin-Russia, with Germany-Hitler. Wow the uneducated mouth breathers get a voice ,well, Even the PNAC crew new Russia would be back on it's feet in 10-15 years from the collapse of the USSR. Well US america got to run rampage where and when they wanted but the time is up on that. Russia is standing up for itself again and IMHO you should read about past Tsars since that seems where this is going.

English, you should learn it.  Papers please?

Beyond that, your premise is flawed.  Russia is no more a power today than it was 10 years ago.  Honestly, it's been slipping further and further into third world shiat hole status since the Soviet Union dissolved and even that wasn't great shakes.  If it wasn't for those pesky nukes, they'd be at terrible risk of occupation themselves.  Many nations have much stronger militaries.  Almost all modern nations have much stronger and more diversified economies.

Their sub-surface fleet is world-class, though. The surface navy doesn't like going far without an ocean-going tug accompanying them. But they got their shiat together under the waves.


Hi there! I'm former RM1(SS) rohar.  Their subsurface fleet is questionable at best.  Loud, easy to find and fragile.  To make up for it, their targeting range is extremely limited and firing is prone to failure.  Sorry buddy, but that's what they've got.

Seriously, we can see their nuclear boats from satellite.  Shielding is an important thing if you want to be stealthy.
 
2014-03-01 11:24:12 PM  

studebaker hoch: The Russians have really good missiles now.


Apparantly they've been trying out their mid-range nukes: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-25964387
 
2014-03-01 11:27:46 PM  

Agent Nick Fury: LavenderWolf: Agent Nick Fury: LavenderWolf: Agent Nick Fury: LavenderWolf: Hobodeluxe: ksdanj: ManateeGag: Nabb1: I guess the speech didn't work.

What, exactly, do you want the US to do about it?

Yes, please elaborate Nabb1...

I'm going to guess he wants exactly the opposite of whatever Obama does.

they're reactionary. they don't take positions before Obama does.

That's just patently false!

They also take positions that are so extraordinarily abhorrent and objectionable that no sane person would agree. Like rape rape.

Ha, ha, ha - you said rape a couple of times.

That just shouts "Fark funny person" because rape is the second funniest thing on this web site next to down syndrome children.

You sir, are cutting edge hilarious.

Funny or not, it's factually accurate.

Of course it is.

Can you name a position taken by Republicans/Teabaggers that isn't reactionary or entirely abhorrent?

Man on woman.

I know, it's reactionary and abhorrent to you but it's been around awhile.

But you're asking a question that is nonsensical without an answer because whatever the answer is you will say you disagree so it is reactionary and entirely abhorrent so go and poke somebody else.


Yeah, abhorrent.

You know, I'll give you this one. Their recent tax proposal is literally the first non-reactive, non-abhorrent piece of legislation the Republicans have proposed in the last 5+ years.
 
2014-03-01 11:29:00 PM  

Oldiron_79: I have no idea with what weapons WWIII will be fought, but WWIV will be fought with sticks and stones.


-Rand Paul
 
2014-03-01 11:29:43 PM  

vygramul: rohar: tinfoil-hat maggie: Mentat: vygramul: So Neville Chamberlain is considered to have made a huge mistake to let Germany annex the part of Czechoslovakia that was mostly German. But the right move here is to let Russia annex the part of Ukraine that is mostly Russian?

What an odd system of logic.

What's your solution?

This is curious, why do people wanna equate Putin-Russia, with Germany-Hitler. Wow the uneducated mouth breathers get a voice ,well, Even the PNAC crew new Russia would be back on it's feet in 10-15 years from the collapse of the USSR. Well US america got to run rampage where and when they wanted but the time is up on that. Russia is standing up for itself again and IMHO you should read about past Tsars since that seems where this is going.

English, you should learn it.  Papers please?

Beyond that, your premise is flawed.  Russia is no more a power today than it was 10 years ago.  Honestly, it's been slipping further and further into third world shiat hole status since the Soviet Union dissolved and even that wasn't great shakes.  If it wasn't for those pesky nukes, they'd be at terrible risk of occupation themselves.  Many nations have much stronger militaries.  Almost all modern nations have much stronger and more diversified economies.

Their sub-surface fleet is world-class, though. The surface navy doesn't like going far without an ocean-going tug accompanying them. But they got their shiat together under the waves.


No. They just recently (as in, LAST YEAR) regained the ability to patrol south of the equator subsurface. Their sub fleet is for the most part in disrepair and disarray. They've barely got 3 Borei class subs up and running and their Delta IVs practically need tug boats. The idea that their subsurface fleet is anywhere near the same capability as the Cold War days is just plain false.
 
2014-03-01 11:32:53 PM  

tinfoil-hat maggie: LograyX: TheWhoppah: Some of you need to take off your RedWhiteAndBlue blinders and figure out how to unfark yourselves.

Unrest in Ukraine has forced the legitimate government into hiding.  Amid the chaos, Russian interests were threatened by the extremists that have taken over Kiev.  Russia moves in to protect their legitimate historical interest in the region.   Russia doesn't even see this as an invasion... more of a peacekeeping exercise.

The legitimate government.  You mean the president that the Ukrainian Parliament voted to remove from power?  The one that was violently repressing the protestors (including using snipers to just randomly pick off people)?

And whether or not Russian sees it as an invasion, it is one.  This is not a peacekeeping mission.  If it was, they'd have gone through the UN just like we did.

It wouldn't have been hard at this point.  Putin could have even looked like a big diplomatic hero.

This is an opportunistic invasion.  It doesn't matter how many of the people in Crimea are Russian speaking (you know, after the whole purges during the Soviet Era of non-Russian speakers).  It's part of the Ukraine now.

Sadly, there's not a lot of unity in the West to make any sort of deterrent to Russia doing things like this.

Your panties seem wadded. When was the first time you heard about the Ukraine?


Ukraine as a country?  No clue. How does one remember when they learned about the existence of a country?

The Euromaidan Protests in Ukraine that started this whole thing? Probably back in the end of November.
 
2014-03-01 11:33:22 PM  
To be clear, if Putin wants the entirety of Eastern Ukraine, no one can stop him.  It is Putin's. NATO has the forces to damage the Russians, even to eventually push them out.  NATO cannot stop Putin from taking the territory.

The only question is whether Putin wants to pay the political price, and there are some mighty big price tags on this conquest.  Obama's 90 minute chat with Putin earlier today must have mentioned a few of them.

-The G8?  Yeah, it's called the G7 again.

-Oil and gas exports to Europe?   Petro dollars are the only thing keeping Russia from turning into Kyrgyzstan.  The Russian economy collapses if Europe stops buying gas and oil.  If he takes eastern Ukraine, the EU will move heaven and earth to wean themselves from the bear.

-This new nation of West Ukraine?  It's getting automatic admission to the EU and NATO, with full protections and US military basing rights.

That's before we even get to the sanctions, and there will be sanctions.  Putin's wealth and that of his cronies will be locked down.  Travel restrictions.  No more oligarch villa's in Monaco and Cyprus.  Imports of goods to Russia will be slowed and stopped, especially luxury goods preferred by Putin and his cronies.  Trade with Russia will be greatly diminished, in both directions.

Putin's best move right now?  Use his show of force negotiate more autonomy for Crimea and the east of Ukraine.  Then, send his troops home and declare Mission Accomplished.  He probably won't do that.  He'll probably take the entire east of Ukraine, then suffer some mighty consequences.
 
2014-03-01 11:33:51 PM  

ecl: Borock Oblahmah is powerless to stop PUTIN ON THE RITZ!
<Cue music from Enemy at the Gates>

[Putin On A Rollin' Rollin' Rollin', RAWWWW HIIIIIDE Ritz *whip crack*.jpg]


OW MY BALLS, Pooty screamed, out of earshot of everyone else on the planet.
 
2014-03-01 11:34:55 PM  

Keith Dudemeister: CanisNoir: Keith Dudemeister: Dude, stop being reasonable and realistic about this whole thing. You rational summary is ruining it for everyone.

Sorry, but the narcassim of Superpower Hangover combined with pure partisan hackery really bothers me. I guess part of the problem is that us Americans have not had a form of "Ethnic Nationalism" since the Civil War so it's difficult for a lot of us to wrap our noggins around the way Europe sees itself.
Russia crossing the border to protect ethnic Russians in Ukraine is not an anomoly in world history, in fact, that kind of action is fairly common. I though Obama's offer of International Forces was a smart choice; it makes Putin rightly look like "the bad guy" for refusing the help in favor of increasing tensions and looking like an aggressor.
Now we just need to take a step back, a little breather and see which way our allies are going to move and then do what we can to assist them. I'm far from an expert in that region, but from where I'm sitting, I don't see any reason why the US should be taking a "leadership" role in trying to solve this problem.

Yep, there's a huge question that no one seems to be asking, which, in Fark terms, is "WHAR EUROPE?" The silence from Western Europe is deafening. There are lots of fingers being pointed at Obama but it seems like Germany (one country away from Ukraine), for example, has a much more vested interest in resolving this peacefully.


Germany & Russia just completed the second nat.gas pipeline (Nord Stream) that, per Russian requirements, pass North of Ukrainian territory (Russia is also considering similar Southern pipeline that skirts the Ukraine, this is Russia's means of pressuring the Ukraine to stay on board - Ukraine's gas pipeline infrastructure is getting very old and will be very expensive to upgrade - Russia is also owed 7 billion from the Ukraine for Nat gas contracts (take-or-pay).  That's 2 trillion cubic feet per year to Germany, as of 2012.  Germans can't run their economy on solar & wind (what nuclear?) - guess thinking about shoveling coal will keep them quiet.

i30.photobucket.com

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/R42405.pdf
 
2014-03-01 11:37:15 PM  

Agent Nick Fury: LograyX: TheWhoppah: Some of you need to take off your RedWhiteAndBlue blinders and figure out how to unfark yourselves.

Unrest in Ukraine has forced the legitimate government into hiding.  Amid the chaos, Russian interests were threatened by the extremists that have taken over Kiev.  Russia moves in to protect their legitimate historical interest in the region.   Russia doesn't even see this as an invasion... more of a peacekeeping exercise.

The legitimate government.  You mean the president that the Ukrainian Parliament voted to remove from power?  The one that was violently repressing the protestors (including using snipers to just randomly pick off people)?

Really?

After Obama backed down on Syria the media suddenly found that it wasn't Assad that used chemical weapons but the rebels themselves and Obama made a wise decision.

Now did they some how just find this fact out after Obama backed down or was the media misleading us on purpose?


d.ibtimes.co.uk
 
2014-03-01 11:37:25 PM  

rohar: vygramul: rohar: tinfoil-hat maggie: Mentat: vygramul: So Neville Chamberlain is considered to have made a huge mistake to let Germany annex the part of Czechoslovakia that was mostly German. But the right move here is to let Russia annex the part of Ukraine that is mostly Russian?

What an odd system of logic.

What's your solution?

This is curious, why do people wanna equate Putin-Russia, with Germany-Hitler. Wow the uneducated mouth breathers get a voice ,well, Even the PNAC crew new Russia would be back on it's feet in 10-15 years from the collapse of the USSR. Well US america got to run rampage where and when they wanted but the time is up on that. Russia is standing up for itself again and IMHO you should read about past Tsars since that seems where this is going.

English, you should learn it.  Papers please?

Beyond that, your premise is flawed.  Russia is no more a power today than it was 10 years ago.  Honestly, it's been slipping further and further into third world shiat hole status since the Soviet Union dissolved and even that wasn't great shakes.  If it wasn't for those pesky nukes, they'd be at terrible risk of occupation themselves.  Many nations have much stronger militaries.  Almost all modern nations have much stronger and more diversified economies.

Their sub-surface fleet is world-class, though. The surface navy doesn't like going far without an ocean-going tug accompanying them. But they got their shiat together under the waves.

Hi there! I'm former RM1(SS) rohar.  Their subsurface fleet is questionable at best.  Loud, easy to find and fragile.  To make up for it, their targeting range is extremely limited and firing is prone to failure.  Sorry buddy, but that's what they've got.

Seriously, we can see their nuclear boats from satellite.  Shielding is an important thing if you want to be stealthy.


Y ou didn't mention years and it always been known the west sonar gear and stealthy armor wasthe tops but the existing Russian fleet well we haven't gone to war with a country like it. Also any one thinking of doing so is doing what the Russians feared would happen all along and with good reason.
 
2014-03-01 11:40:24 PM  

Crazy Lee: Germany & Russia just completed the second nat.gas pipeline (Nord Stream) that, per Russian requirements, pass North of Ukrainian territory


And if he takes Eastern Ukraine, Germany and the EU are going to do everything in their power to wean themselves of Russian gas.  If that means fracking, imported tankers of CNG, even nuclear, they'll do it.

Without petro dollars, Russia becomes a complete third world shiathole.  In the parts of Russia that aren't Moscow and St Petersburg, they're mostly there already.
 
2014-03-01 11:43:29 PM  

LograyX: Agent Nick Fury: LograyX: TheWhoppah: Some of you need to take off your RedWhiteAndBlue blinders and figure out how to unfark yourselves.

Unrest in Ukraine has forced the legitimate government into hiding.  Amid the chaos, Russian interests were threatened by the extremists that have taken over Kiev.  Russia moves in to protect their legitimate historical interest in the region.   Russia doesn't even see this as an invasion... more of a peacekeeping exercise.

The legitimate government.  You mean the president that the Ukrainian Parliament voted to remove from power?  The one that was violently repressing the protestors (including using snipers to just randomly pick off people)?

Really?

After Obama backed down on Syria the media suddenly found that it wasn't Assad that used chemical weapons but the rebels themselves and Obama made a wise decision.

Now did they some how just find this fact out after Obama backed down or was the media misleading us on purpose?

[d.ibtimes.co.uk image 513x380]


Well now you totally got me there.

An internet picture of people shooting totally proves the Russians Ukrainians Syrians Rebels Jason Bournepeople are guilty of crimes against humanity and need to be punished.
 
2014-03-01 11:45:48 PM  
Peace
 
2014-03-01 11:47:12 PM  

LograyX: tinfoil-hat maggie: LograyX: TheWhoppah: Some of you need to take off your RedWhiteAndBlue blinders and figure out how to unfark yourselves.

Unrest in Ukraine has forced the legitimate government into hiding.  Amid the chaos, Russian interests were threatened by the extremists that have taken over Kiev.  Russia moves in to protect their legitimate historical interest in the region.   Russia doesn't even see this as an invasion... more of a peacekeeping exercise.

The legitimate government.  You mean the president that the Ukrainian Parliament voted to remove from power?  The one that was violently repressing the protestors (including using snipers to just randomly pick off people)?

And whether or not Russian sees it as an invasion, it is one.  This is not a peacekeeping mission.  If it was, they'd have gone through the UN just like we did.

It wouldn't have been hard at this point.  Putin could have even looked like a big diplomatic hero.

This is an opportunistic invasion.  It doesn't matter how many of the people in Crimea are Russian speaking (you know, after the whole purges during the Soviet Era of non-Russian speakers).  It's part of the Ukraine now.

Sadly, there's not a lot of unity in the West to make any sort of deterrent to Russia doing things like this.

Your panties seem wadded. When was the first time you heard about the Ukraine?

Ukraine as a country?  No clue. How does one remember when they learned about the existence of a country?

The Euromaidan Protests in Ukraine that started this whole thing? Probably back in the end of November.


Well, good for you pay a bit of attention.
The Trooper
encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com
 
2014-03-01 11:47:56 PM  

tinfoil-hat maggie: rohar: vygramul: rohar: tinfoil-hat maggie: Mentat: vygramul: So Neville Chamberlain is considered to have made a huge mistake to let Germany annex the part of Czechoslovakia that was mostly German. But the right move here is to let Russia annex the part of Ukraine that is mostly Russian?

What an odd system of logic.

What's your solution?

This is curious, why do people wanna equate Putin-Russia, with Germany-Hitler. Wow the uneducated mouth breathers get a voice ,well, Even the PNAC crew new Russia would be back on it's feet in 10-15 years from the collapse of the USSR. Well US america got to run rampage where and when they wanted but the time is up on that. Russia is standing up for itself again and IMHO you should read about past Tsars since that seems where this is going.

English, you should learn it.  Papers please?

Beyond that, your premise is flawed.  Russia is no more a power today than it was 10 years ago.  Honestly, it's been slipping further and further into third world shiat hole status since the Soviet Union dissolved and even that wasn't great shakes.  If it wasn't for those pesky nukes, they'd be at terrible risk of occupation themselves.  Many nations have much stronger militaries.  Almost all modern nations have much stronger and more diversified economies.

Their sub-surface fleet is world-class, though. The surface navy doesn't like going far without an ocean-going tug accompanying them. But they got their shiat together under the waves.

Hi there! I'm former RM1(SS) rohar.  Their subsurface fleet is questionable at best.  Loud, easy to find and fragile.  To make up for it, their targeting range is extremely limited and firing is prone to failure.  Sorry buddy, but that's what they've got.

Seriously, we can see their nuclear boats from satellite.  Shielding is an important thing if you want to be stealthy.

Y ou didn't mention years and it always been known the west sonar gear and stealthy armor wasthe tops but the existing Russian fleet well ...


You're right, we haven't gone to war with a country like it.  But we go play with them for months on end every year in the north sea.  We've been playing this game for decades.  We know their equipment, capabilities and maneuvers inside out.

If there was a full on conflict between these two subsurface navys, there would be casualties on both sides.  Sometimes luck beats ability.  But it'd be over in days rather than weeks and the soviet submarines would be a memory.
 
2014-03-01 11:47:58 PM  

rohar: Hi there! I'm former RM1(SS) rohar. Their subsurface fleet is questionable at best. Loud, easy to find and fragile. To make up for it, their targeting range is extremely limited and firing is prone to failure. Sorry buddy, but that's what they've got.

Seriously, we can see their nuclear boats from satellite. Shielding is an important thing if you want to be stealthy.


Thanks for the insight.

If it got to be a full out shooting war, you think they'd be almost no chance of Ivan's sub launched cruise missiles hitting a US domestic target?  Conventional warhead of course.
 
2014-03-01 11:49:26 PM  
I thought the Ukraine was in the USSR?  WTF?  You can't attack your own people.
 
2014-03-01 11:51:09 PM  

Agent Nick Fury: LograyX: Agent Nick Fury: LograyX: TheWhoppah: Some of you need to take off your RedWhiteAndBlue blinders and figure out how to unfark yourselves.

Unrest in Ukraine has forced the legitimate government into hiding.  Amid the chaos, Russian interests were threatened by the extremists that have taken over Kiev.  Russia moves in to protect their legitimate historical interest in the region.   Russia doesn't even see this as an invasion... more of a peacekeeping exercise.

The legitimate government.  You mean the president that the Ukrainian Parliament voted to remove from power?  The one that was violently repressing the protestors (including using snipers to just randomly pick off people)?

Really?

After Obama backed down on Syria the media suddenly found that it wasn't Assad that used chemical weapons but the rebels themselves and Obama made a wise decision.

Now did they some how just find this fact out after Obama backed down or was the media misleading us on purpose?

[d.ibtimes.co.uk image 513x380]

Well now you totally got me there.

An internet picture of people shooting totally proves the Russians Ukrainians Syrians Rebels Jason Bournepeople are guilty of crimes against humanity and need to be punished.


http://metro.co.uk/2014/02/20/kiev-sniper-video-shows-ukraine-protes te rs-being-picked-off-by-police-4311768/

And that's just the first one I found that said "video" in the title.
 
2014-03-01 11:51:41 PM  

RandomRandom: rohar: Hi there! I'm former RM1(SS) rohar. Their subsurface fleet is questionable at best. Loud, easy to find and fragile. To make up for it, their targeting range is extremely limited and firing is prone to failure. Sorry buddy, but that's what they've got.

Seriously, we can see their nuclear boats from satellite. Shielding is an important thing if you want to be stealthy.

Thanks for the insight.

If it got to be a full out shooting war, you think they'd be almost no chance of Ivan's sub launched cruise missiles hitting a US domestic target?  Conventional warhead of course.


Meh, I'm probably not the absolute expert, but I've spend a few years working out the abilities of both fleets.  I'd suggest at least a 10/1 kill ratio in America's favor.  Half of theirs, we wouldn't even have to shoot.  Their metallurgy sucks and their captains are idiots.  We could take about half of them out chasing us to the bottom.
 
2014-03-01 11:52:08 PM  

RandomRandom: Crazy Lee: Germany & Russia just completed the second nat.gas pipeline (Nord Stream) that, per Russian requirements, pass North of Ukrainian territory

And if he takes Eastern Ukraine, Germany and the EU are going to do everything in their power to wean themselves of Russian gas.  If that means fracking, imported tankers of CNG, even nuclear, they'll do it.

Without petro dollars, Russia becomes a complete third world shiathole.  In the parts of Russia that aren't Moscow and St Petersburg, they're mostly there already.


Um, what? Putin can't attack Germany . You may need maps and such.

0.tqn.com
 
2014-03-02 12:02:08 AM  

RandomRandom: Crazy Lee: Germany & Russia just completed the second nat.gas pipeline (Nord Stream) that, per Russian requirements, pass North of Ukrainian territory

And if he takes Eastern Ukraine, Germany and the EU are going to do everything in their power to wean themselves of Russian gas.  If that means fracking, imported tankers of CNG, even nuclear, they'll do it.

Without petro dollars, Russia becomes a complete third world shiathole.  In the parts of Russia that aren't Moscow and St Petersburg, they're mostly there already.


I'll believe the EU will do that when I see it.  I remember all the froth and fury generated by the `73  oil embargo - oh! de independence!!  Nixon floated his Operation Independence (start with 1000 fast breeder reactors - with sufficient electricity both synfuel & hydrogen production on industrial scale becomes a reality).  Had we actually been serious - Israel would toe the line and U.S. would have avoided nearly all its subsequent Middle East related problems, as we would have had no compelling use for that part of the world.

Putin's not stupid (he knows where the money is) but there are plenty of ancillary players in this bit of theater that might improvise their lines.
 
2014-03-02 12:02:23 AM  

LograyX: Agent Nick Fury: LograyX: Agent Nick Fury: LograyX: TheWhoppah: Some of you need to take off your RedWhiteAndBlue blinders and figure out how to unfark yourselves.

Unrest in Ukraine has forced the legitimate government into hiding.  Amid the chaos, Russian interests were threatened by the extremists that have taken over Kiev.  Russia moves in to protect their legitimate historical interest in the region.   Russia doesn't even see this as an invasion... more of a peacekeeping exercise.

The legitimate government.  You mean the president that the Ukrainian Parliament voted to remove from power?  The one that was violently repressing the protestors (including using snipers to just randomly pick off people)?

Really?

After Obama backed down on Syria the media suddenly found that it wasn't Assad that used chemical weapons but the rebels themselves and Obama made a wise decision.

Now did they some how just find this fact out after Obama backed down or was the media misleading us on purpose?

[d.ibtimes.co.uk image 513x380]

Well now you totally got me there.

An internet picture of people shooting totally proves the Russians Ukrainians Syrians Rebels Jason Bournepeople are guilty of crimes against humanity and need to be punished.

http://metro.co.uk/2014/02/20/kiev-sniper-video-shows-ukraine-protes te rs-being-picked-off-by-police-4311768/

And that's just the first one I found that said "video" in the title.


Not saying it's happening or not but the video shows the same people in your still picture firing guns and was released by the current Ukrainian regime.

It shows nothing more than the Muslim Brotherhood videos during the Arab Spring.

Politics is ugly and people who want to advance politically will do whatever it takes to do so.

I have no idea what I am watching an neither does our government so they need to stay the hell out.
 
2014-03-02 12:03:05 AM  
www.theplacewithnoname.com
 
2014-03-02 12:03:38 AM  

LordJiro: You mean like the mostly-Russian populace of Crimea asked them to?

And really, you're surprised that the Russians want to make sure they don't lose their main port on the Black Sea?

I'm no fan of Pooty-Poot, but this is not nearly as big an issue as people are whining about.


Pretty Gottverdammt much. This is an issue that folks are leaping upon, because they want to make waves, and see who jumps back. These news reports have been essentially hoping for something beyond the securing of assets, putting troops into position, and oddly enough, being turned away from a few airports that they'd like to have secured, but DIDN'T FILL THE "DEFENDERS" FULL OF HOLES FOR. This is a lot of hand wringing, to make sure that folks in a region that is full of flux, full of folks who are pissed and who are looking to vent their spleen upon, and making for damn sure that their bases are stocked, manned, and defended.

THIS is the DREAM action that folks WANTED in Benghazi. Just magically making troops appear, and airlifting material for an embassy staff, as opposed to securing local naval operations base and area. THIS is what they dreamed would happen, and this is likewise the reaction that would have gotten, save several hours later, and utterly too late to make a damn bit of difference there, but in this case, it makes it for damn sure known that the Russians are ready if things go pear shaped and the Ukraine decides, "Civil war it is then."

Will they accept the Crimea into Russia if they ask? For damn sure. That is a lot less paper work for people going to and fro, and a valuable piece of land and sea. Would they like to take advantage of the chaos sown? About as much as Texans would consider a civil war in Mexico, and wonder if they couldn't just scootch the border a few miles south?

This is less WWIII than Bosnia II, only without the ethnic cleansing, and with actual assets worth holding, and quasi-legitimate claims to the use of troops before the populace starts shooting up the joint.

The hand wringing and finger pointing is just so much opportunism to place blame anywhere else but on the folks who are watching each other closely, by folks who willfully disabuse themselves that the US has any f*cking interest in the damn region, save that there are a fair number of Russian naval vessels based from there...
 
2014-03-02 12:04:00 AM  

tinfoil-hat maggie: Um, what? Putin can't attack Germany . You may need maps and such.


That was not what I was saying, though I can see how you read that way.

To rephrase.  Here are the consequences were Putin to take Eastern Ukraine.  Germany and the EU would do everything in their power to wean themselves of Russian gas.  If that means fracking, imported tankers of CNG, even nuclear, they would do it.

The EU has a lot more money than Russia.  They'd much rather spend money to stop a belligerent Russia than fight a war.  Europe has the money to do it.  They can afford to forgo Russian petroleum.  It will cost them, but if Russia takes Eastern Ukraine, it's a price most of Europe will be willing to pay.
 
2014-03-02 12:05:59 AM  

rohar: If there was a full on conflict between these two subsurface navys, there would be casualties on both sides.  Sometimes luck beats ability.  But it'd be over in days rather than weeks and the soviet submarines would be a memory.


In days no, in a war situation you would see more, but the smart boat would disappear. I completely understand the US sub fleet is bar none but well it all dependes on mission objectives.
 
2014-03-02 12:08:50 AM  

Agent Nick Fury: have no idea what I am watching an neither does our government so they need to stay the hell out.


Wow, you're still in this?
 
2014-03-02 12:10:45 AM  

rohar: Meh, I'm probably not the absolute expert, but I've spend a few years working out the abilities of both fleets. I'd suggest at least a 10/1 kill ratio in America's favor. Half of theirs, we wouldn't even have to shoot. Their metallurgy sucks and their captains are idiots. We could take about half of them out chasing us to the bottom.


That's about what I was thinking.  At the end of a shooting war, the Russian air force and Russian fleet would be effectively gone.

Putin would try to gut-check the US by shooting missiles at US cities.  It would be all the US media talked about, tens of thousands could be dying in Europe, but the 47 souls lost in San Francisco would be the new Pearl Harbor and 9/11 wound up in one.
 
2014-03-02 12:11:40 AM  
Agent Nick Fury: It shows nothing more than the Muslim Brotherhood videos during the Arab Spring.

I have no idea what I am watching


OK, um, you don't know what you are watching, so it's DEFINITELY the M*zzies.

Gotcha.
 
2014-03-02 12:14:11 AM  

hubiestubert: LordJiro: You mean like the mostly-Russian populace of Crimea asked them to?

And really, you're surprised that the Russians want to make sure they don't lose their main port on the Black Sea?

I'm no fan of Pooty-Poot, but this is not nearly as big an issue as people are whining about.

Pretty Gottverdammt much. This is an issue that folks are leaping upon, because they want to make waves, and see who jumps back. These news reports have been essentially hoping for something beyond the securing of assets, putting troops into position, and oddly enough, being turned away from a few airports that they'd like to have secured, but DIDN'T FILL THE "DEFENDERS" FULL OF HOLES FOR. This is a lot of hand wringing, to make sure that folks in a region that is full of flux, full of folks who are pissed and who are looking to vent their spleen upon, and making for damn sure that their bases are stocked, manned, and defended.

THIS is the DREAM action that folks WANTED in Benghazi. Just magically making troops appear, and airlifting material for an embassy staff, as opposed to securing local naval operations base and area. THIS is what they dreamed would happen, and this is likewise the reaction that would have gotten, save several hours later, and utterly too late to make a damn bit of difference there, but in this case, it makes it for damn sure known that the Russians are ready if things go pear shaped and the Ukraine decides, "Civil war it is then."

Will they accept the Crimea into Russia if they ask? For damn sure. That is a lot less paper work for people going to and fro, and a valuable piece of land and sea. Would they like to take advantage of the chaos sown? About as much as Texans would consider a civil war in Mexico, and wonder if they couldn't just scootch the border a few miles south?

This is less WWIII than Bosnia II, only without the ethnic cleansing, and with actual assets worth holding, and quasi-legitimate claims to the use of troops before the populace starts ...


I still think you'r the smartest farker I kow cause you said all that so well and well we maybe should talk again soonish but not right now,
 
2014-03-02 12:15:36 AM  

Kittypie070: Agent Nick Fury: It shows nothing more than the Muslim Brotherhood videos during the Arab Spring.

I have no idea what I am watching

OK, um, you don't know what you are watching, so it's DEFINITELY the M*zzies.

Gotcha.


Don't crop my post to make yourself feel superior.

This is why you posted in the other thread and then posted a gif about how funny the post was and then commented on your own gif about how funny that was in relationship to your post.

Fark is a wasteland but it does notice when one is screaming for attention.
 
2014-03-02 12:17:27 AM  

Kittypie070: Agent Nick Fury: It shows nothing more than the Muslim Brotherhood videos during the Arab Spring.

I have no idea what I am watching

OK, um, you don't know what you are watching, so it's DEFINITELY the M*zzies.

Gotcha.


Hiya hon, good to see you here . So start awar over Ukkraine yea or nea?
 
2014-03-02 12:17:35 AM  

tinfoil-hat maggie: Agent Nick Fury: have no idea what I am watching an neither does our government so they need to stay the hell out.

Wow, you're still in this?


In what?
 
2014-03-02 12:21:24 AM  
The best part of this thread was when Nabb1 threadshat, got called on it, and then promptly exited while yelling "lol i troll u lol lol"
 
2014-03-02 12:21:26 AM  

rohar: Hi there! I'm former RM1(SS) rohar.  Their subsurface fleet is questionable at best.  Loud, easy to find and fragile.  To make up for it, their targeting range is extremely limited and firing is prone to failure.  Sorry buddy, but that's what they've got.

Seriously, we can see their nuclear boats from satellite.  Shielding is an important thing if you want to be stealthy.


Former analyst for the Operations Evaluation Group over at the Navy's FFRDC.

I stand by my assessment. You must be thinking of the Chinese fleet.
 
2014-03-02 12:21:48 AM  

Agent Nick Fury: tinfoil-hat maggie: Agent Nick Fury: have no idea what I am watching an neither does our government so they need to stay the hell out.

Wow, you're still in this?

In what?


You've been here all day from my perspective. No worry's .
 
2014-03-02 12:22:42 AM  

shower_in_my_socks: Cataholic: I suspect a sternly-worded letter with strenuous objections is on its way.


And I suspect that you still don't know whether the GOP was for or against our actions in Libya.


Defend the ineptitude all you want, Obama still isn't having sex with you.
 
2014-03-02 12:26:15 AM  

iq_in_binary: vygramul: rohar: tinfoil-hat maggie: Mentat: vygramul: So Neville Chamberlain is considered to have made a huge mistake to let Germany annex the part of Czechoslovakia that was mostly German. But the right move here is to let Russia annex the part of Ukraine that is mostly Russian?

What an odd system of logic.

What's your solution?

This is curious, why do people wanna equate Putin-Russia, with Germany-Hitler. Wow the uneducated mouth breathers get a voice ,well, Even the PNAC crew new Russia would be back on it's feet in 10-15 years from the collapse of the USSR. Well US america got to run rampage where and when they wanted but the time is up on that. Russia is standing up for itself again and IMHO you should read about past Tsars since that seems where this is going.

English, you should learn it.  Papers please?

Beyond that, your premise is flawed.  Russia is no more a power today than it was 10 years ago.  Honestly, it's been slipping further and further into third world shiat hole status since the Soviet Union dissolved and even that wasn't great shakes.  If it wasn't for those pesky nukes, they'd be at terrible risk of occupation themselves.  Many nations have much stronger militaries.  Almost all modern nations have much stronger and more diversified economies.

Their sub-surface fleet is world-class, though. The surface navy doesn't like going far without an ocean-going tug accompanying them. But they got their shiat together under the waves.

No. They just recently (as in, LAST YEAR) regained the ability to patrol south of the equator subsurface. Their sub fleet is for the most part in disrepair and disarray. They've barely got 3 Borei class subs up and running and their Delta IVs practically need tug boats. The idea that their subsurface fleet is anywhere near the same capability as the Cold War days is just plain false.


I didn't say it's the same as the Cold War days, I said it was world-class. And I'd check again - 15 years ago you'd be right. Heck, 10 years ago. But they decided they needed to do SOMETHING right and it's good again.
 
2014-03-02 12:28:29 AM  

tinfoil-hat maggie: Agent Nick Fury: tinfoil-hat maggie: Agent Nick Fury: have no idea what I am watching an neither does our government so they need to stay the hell out.

Wow, you're still in this?

In what?

You've been here all day from my perspective. No worry's .


I can say I have less than 50 posts the last three years.

I was here @ 11:00 to see what was going on and then left to work on my car - I was called a pussy for leaving.

I came back @ 4:00 to refute these allegations.

Then, after the Penguins lost to the cheating Blackhawks I come back again.

I'm sure G.M. can confirm my activity because they do that on Total Fark.
 
2014-03-02 12:33:26 AM  

vygramul: rohar: Hi there! I'm former RM1(SS) rohar.  Their subsurface fleet is questionable at best.  Loud, easy to find and fragile.  To make up for it, their targeting range is extremely limited and firing is prone to failure.  Sorry buddy, but that's what they've got.

Seriously, we can see their nuclear boats from satellite.  Shielding is an important thing if you want to be stealthy.

Former analyst for the Operations Evaluation Group over at the Navy's FFRDC.

I stand by my assessment. You must be thinking of the Chinese fleet.


And the plot thickens as two sub geeks face off.

Granted I'm not up on the latest but well I doubt we know where all the Russian subs are sure we see them when they leave port nut once they dive. Unless their is a sub tracking it well...
 
2014-03-02 12:33:37 AM  

rohar: You're right, we haven't gone to war with a country like it.  But we go play with them for months on end every year in the north sea.  We've been playing this game for decades.  We know their equipment, capabilities and maneuvers inside out.

If there was a full on conflict between these two subsurface navys, there would be casualties on both sides.  Sometimes luck beats ability.  But it'd be over in days rather than weeks and the soviet submarines would be a memory.


Our surface ASW capability has gone downhill since the Soviets stopped dogging us everywhere. We no longer have that fine, practiced edge.

Our subsurface guys are pretty darn good, though. You know who else is really good? The Japanese.
 
2014-03-02 12:33:45 AM  
If you like your warm water port in Crimea, you can keep your warm water port in Crimea.
 
2014-03-02 12:34:03 AM  

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: Oldiron_79: I have no idea with what weapons WWIII will be fought, but WWIV will be fought with sticks and stones.

-Rand Paul


Not even close, that one was from Albert farking Einstein.
 
2014-03-02 12:34:42 AM  
tinfoil-hat maggie:  I still think you'r the smartest farker I kow cause you said all that so well and well we maybe should talk again soonish but not right now,

You know where I'm at, you. Be the best you, you can be. There will be a lot of posturing, and grandstanding in the rest of this, and it will come, essentially, to naught. Well, up until some Ukrainian decides to take a potshot at the Russians, and then sh*t will get real, fast. The Russians don't play at "warning shots" and it will certainly play into their narrative.

The Russians aren't exactly innocents, but they ARE doing exactly what folks who have assets in the region would do, and if they come under fire, they won't hesitate to render that particular section that shots came from to rubble and quietly outgassing corpses that they can then claim did all manner of mischief. I only hope that the Ukraine commanders can keep their people in control enough to NOT start some sh*t, because the Russians WILL end it, and fast. And that will only give them greater claims and greater credibility about their looking to protect their interests.
 
2014-03-02 12:36:49 AM  

hubiestubert: tinfoil-hat maggie:  I still think you'r the smartest farker I kow cause you said all that so well and well we maybe should talk again soonish but not right now,

You know where I'm at, you. Be the best you, you can be. There will be a lot of posturing, and grandstanding in the rest of this, and it will come, essentially, to naught. Well, up until some Ukrainian decides to take a potshot at the Russians, and then sh*t will get real, fast. The Russians don't play at "warning shots" and it will certainly play into their narrative.

The Russians aren't exactly innocents, but they ARE doing exactly what folks who have assets in the region would do, and if they come under fire, they won't hesitate to render that particular section that shots came from to rubble and quietly outgassing corpses that they can then claim did all manner of mischief. I only hope that the Ukraine commanders can keep their people in control enough to NOT start some sh*t, because the Russians WILL end it, and fast. And that will only give them greater claims and greater credibility about their looking to protect their interests.


Seriously, isn't there a TF halloween costume thread you poor, pathetic lowlifes can go to?
 
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