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(MSN) NewsFlash Russian troops invade the Crimean region of Ukraine. This will not end well   (news.msn.com) divider line 504
    More: NewsFlash, Crimean, Carnegie Moscow Center, Russians, Ukraine, Vladimir Putin, South Ossetia, Russian troops, Yulia Tymoshenko  
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9433 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Mar 2014 at 5:59 PM (42 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2014-03-01 10:26:53 PM  

rohar: vygramul: tinfoil-hat maggie: vygramul: tinfoil-hat maggie: I thought they double bunked : )

It's called "hot-racking".

For a reason.

Oh my would there be video of this?
: )

I'm surprised there isn't an upload from some carrier or another by now. Tens of thousands of former enlisted and not one has a video of this?

Carriers are big, generally  no need to hot rack.  Submarines are small and secure, need for hotracks, no possibility to record a damned thing.


The hot-action happens a lot on carriers. It's done despite the lack of necessity. Although, to be fair, a CVN isn't exactly swimming in berthing. Otherwise, my Lt. Cmdr. equivalent wouldn't have landed me in enlisted like it always did.
 
2014-03-01 10:27:36 PM  

vygramul: tinfoil-hat maggie: vygramul: tinfoil-hat maggie: I thought they double bunked : )

It's called "hot-racking".

For a reason.

Oh my would there be video of this?
: )

I'm surprised there isn't an upload from some carrier or another by now. Tens of thousands of former enlisted and not one has a video of this?


Well I seen lots of movies of guys in army camo have happy fun time but no sailers and those Russian sailors in the blue and white tank tops look really like the could be that kind of friends but I sure its not gay to them : )
 
2014-03-01 10:29:21 PM  

iq_in_binary: tinfoil-hat maggie: iq_in_binary: rohar: iq_in_binary: This time there's troops on the ground and ground forces are amassing at the border. The provisional government of Ukraine has already invoked the Budapest Memorandum and many parties within their government have actively been calling for accession to Nuclear Weapon State, and our failure to recognize sections 1, 2, 3, and 6 of the Budapest Memorandum gives them standing to do so.

I would suggest that last section is utter and complete bullshiat.  As of this point, we've acted incomplete accord with the Budapest Memorandum.  Suggesting we haven't is wishing it read something that it does not.

That said, Russia was a signatory as well.  In any multilateral treaty, when one party breaks the rules, the treaty is over.  Even if we were bound to act, a signatory breached it before we could.  We're off the hook and can make any decision we damned well please.

Then we have absolutely no leg to stand on telling non NWS states that they can't develop nuclear weapons. Nuclear Estonia! YAY!

We never did but we didn't let that stop us. The International Court has not appointed the US as Sheriff and many debate it's standing.

The International Court only has teeth when everybody respects it. If the NPT goes up in smoke, so does the UN. No UN? No ICJ.

That's not what we want to happen. That's now what anybody wants to happen, including Russia.


NPT treaties with Russia are still secure as they were no stipulation on the treaty limiting which countries Russia could invade etc and none of the signatory parties have broken any part of those treaties.  The nuclear agreement we had with Ukraine was dependent on the US, England and Russia respecting Ukraine as an autonomous country.  Russia broke that, the treaty is dead.
 
2014-03-01 10:29:55 PM  
So Neville Chamberlain is considered to have made a huge mistake to let Germany annex the part of Czechoslovakia that was mostly German. But the right move here is to let Russia annex the part of Ukraine that is mostly Russian?

What an odd system of logic.
 
2014-03-01 10:32:07 PM  

vygramul: rohar: vygramul: tinfoil-hat maggie: vygramul: tinfoil-hat maggie: I thought they double bunked : )

It's called "hot-racking".

For a reason.

Oh my would there be video of this?
: )

I'm surprised there isn't an upload from some carrier or another by now. Tens of thousands of former enlisted and not one has a video of this?

Carriers are big, generally  no need to hot rack.  Submarines are small and secure, need for hotracks, no possibility to record a damned thing.

The hot-action happens a lot on carriers. It's done despite the lack of necessity. Although, to be fair, a CVN isn't exactly swimming in berthing. Otherwise, my Lt. Cmdr. equivalent wouldn't have landed me in enlisted like it always did.


I wouldn't know.  I served on an effective fighting vessel.  :)
 
2014-03-01 10:32:48 PM  

vygramul: So Neville Chamberlain is considered to have made a huge mistake to let Germany annex the part of Czechoslovakia that was mostly German. But the right move here is to let Russia annex the part of Ukraine that is mostly Russian?

What an odd system of logic.


What's your solution?
 
2014-03-01 10:33:29 PM  

rohar: iq_in_binary: tinfoil-hat maggie: iq_in_binary: rohar: iq_in_binary: This time there's troops on the ground and ground forces are amassing at the border. The provisional government of Ukraine has already invoked the Budapest Memorandum and many parties within their government have actively been calling for accession to Nuclear Weapon State, and our failure to recognize sections 1, 2, 3, and 6 of the Budapest Memorandum gives them standing to do so.

I would suggest that last section is utter and complete bullshiat.  As of this point, we've acted incomplete accord with the Budapest Memorandum.  Suggesting we haven't is wishing it read something that it does not.

That said, Russia was a signatory as well.  In any multilateral treaty, when one party breaks the rules, the treaty is over.  Even if we were bound to act, a signatory breached it before we could.  We're off the hook and can make any decision we damned well please.

Then we have absolutely no leg to stand on telling non NWS states that they can't develop nuclear weapons. Nuclear Estonia! YAY!

We never did but we didn't let that stop us. The International Court has not appointed the US as Sheriff and many debate it's standing.

The International Court only has teeth when everybody respects it. If the NPT goes up in smoke, so does the UN. No UN? No ICJ.

That's not what we want to happen. That's now what anybody wants to happen, including Russia.

NPT treaties with Russia are still secure as they were no stipulation on the treaty limiting which countries Russia could invade etc and none of the signatory parties have broken any part of those treaties.  The nuclear agreement we had with Ukraine was dependent on the US, England and Russia respecting Ukraine as an autonomous country.  Russia broke that, the treaty is dead.


Exactly. The treaty that established Ukraine's signatory status to the NPT as a non NWS.

The NPT is now a roll of toilet paper to all non NWS states.

Congrats.
 
2014-03-01 10:35:41 PM  

rohar: iq_in_binary: tinfoil-hat maggie: iq_in_binary: rohar: iq_in_binary: This time there's troops on the ground and ground forces are amassing at the border. The provisional government of Ukraine has already invoked the Budapest Memorandum and many parties within their government have actively been calling for accession to Nuclear Weapon State, and our failure to recognize sections 1, 2, 3, and 6 of the Budapest Memorandum gives them standing to do so.

I would suggest that last section is utter and complete bullshiat.  As of this point, we've acted incomplete accord with the Budapest Memorandum.  Suggesting we haven't is wishing it read something that it does not.

That said, Russia was a signatory as well.  In any multilateral treaty, when one party breaks the rules, the treaty is over.  Even if we were bound to act, a signatory breached it before we could.  We're off the hook and can make any decision we damned well please.

Then we have absolutely no leg to stand on telling non NWS states that they can't develop nuclear weapons. Nuclear Estonia! YAY!

We never did but we didn't let that stop us. The International Court has not appointed the US as Sheriff and many debate it's standing.

The International Court only has teeth when everybody respects it. If the NPT goes up in smoke, so does the UN. No UN? No ICJ.

That's not what we want to happen. That's now what anybody wants to happen, including Russia.

NPT treaties with Russia are still secure as they were no stipulation on the treaty limiting which countries Russia could invade etc and none of the signatory parties have broken any part of those treaties.  The nuclear agreement we had with Ukraine was dependent on the US, England and Russia respecting Ukraine as an autonomous country.  Russia broke that, the treaty is dead.


Intresting to see there have been about 100 changes to the Budapest Memorandum's page on wikipedia in the last 2 days
 
2014-03-01 10:37:58 PM  

Mentat: vygramul: So Neville Chamberlain is considered to have made a huge mistake to let Germany annex the part of Czechoslovakia that was mostly German. But the right move here is to let Russia annex the part of Ukraine that is mostly Russian?

What an odd system of logic.

What's your solution?


Good question. I'm not sure. To be honest, part of it depends on intel to which I do not have access. One thing I found out today was that Russia's actually been planning this since the protests started. They held some exercises near Ukraine and then sent the units home, but left the supplies forward-deployed. They anticipated this.

But what to do about it can only be effectively discussed if everyone agrees it's a problem. We're not there yet, as some people don't see a problem here at all.
 
2014-03-01 10:37:58 PM  
Some of you need to take off your RedWhiteAndBlue blinders and figure out how to unfark yourselves.

Unrest in Ukraine has forced the legitimate government into hiding.  Amid the chaos, Russian interests were threatened by the extremists that have taken over Kiev.  Russia moves in to protect their legitimate historical interest in the region.   Russia doesn't even see this as an invasion... more of a peacekeeping exercise.
 
2014-03-01 10:38:35 PM  

uber humper: bdub77: tinfoil-hat maggie: bdub77: The US does have retaliatory capability without going full retard. Sanctions w/European allies. The missile shield in Poland. Actions related to Syria. Maybe just threaten to send the Finnish hockey team to Moscow.

However I do think it's completely overblown. I think the US response has been pretty good so far, diplomatic in recognizing Russia's ties w/Ukraine while also making sure that if a war or violence breaks out between Russia and Ukraine, there will be consequences.

See that a reasonable response but the American media and war machine want this to be cold war 2.0 and the crazies want hot war 1.03.

Although I don't know how much Russia needs or grain and such anymore but an embargo on that kills the Ukrainian autonomy if it's like it used to be.

Russia needs trade w/Europe and the US as well as the former Soviet Bloc countries. Would it kill them to be hit by sanctions? No, we aren't talking North Korea 2.0. But it would deeply hurt them economically. Not to mention the kinds of stuff the US and Europe could do with monies many of its Russian nationals have invested in the West. Obviously it would hurt us too, but not nearly as much.

Putin's popularity is barely hovering over 50% within his own country. Starting a war and at the same time subjecting his country to economic harm is a huge deterrent to him. He knows this.

Will Ukraine cede Crimea to Russia? Will the Ukraine split? That's the big question. It's pretty obvious that the populace is split and Russia invading Ukraine at some point will cause war and no one wants to see that. Both the US and Russia have enough problems with terrorist organizations and Syria to really want another conflict.

In other words, Putin talks a big game and walks some fine lines, but he's no idiot.

Russian petroleum account for about 12-15% of world production.  By contrast Iran accounts for about 5%

Russia doesn't export much else besides weapons.  And China would buy the petrol. ...


China needs 6 million barrels of oil per day. much of its oil needs are already covered by long term contracts.

so while China wouldn't take part in sanctions, it has a limited ability to absorb Russia's production of over 10 million barrels a day.

there is also a factor of the Saudis, who already contribute a significant amount to China's oil needs. It costs the Saudis just $6 to produce a barrel of oil, and the Saudis don't like Putin at all.
 
2014-03-01 10:39:01 PM  

Mentat: vygramul: So Neville Chamberlain is considered to have made a huge mistake to let Germany annex the part of Czechoslovakia that was mostly German. But the right move here is to let Russia annex the part of Ukraine that is mostly Russian?

What an odd system of logic.

What's your solution?


A couple dozen nukes in the Russian Hinterland to get their attention.
 
2014-03-01 10:41:12 PM  

TheWhoppah: Some of you need to take off your RedWhiteAndBlue blinders and figure out how to unfark yourselves.

Unrest in Ukraine has forced the legitimate government into hiding.  Amid the chaos, Russian interests were threatened by the extremists that have taken over Kiev.  Russia moves in to protect their legitimate historical interest in the region.   Russia doesn't even see this as an invasion... more of a peacekeeping exercise.


wat
 
2014-03-01 10:41:28 PM  
So Russia invades a majority Russian suburb of Russia. I hope all the Russians in Crimea are okay with seeing Russians. Of course some of them are probably related. Oh how are we going to liberate the Russian citizens from the Russian invasion?

/ it's a puzzlement
 
2014-03-01 10:42:10 PM  
 
2014-03-01 10:42:47 PM  

tinfoil-hat maggie: Although I don't know how much Russia needs or grain and such anymore but an embargo on that kills the Ukrainian autonomy if it's like it used to be.


The central Asian republics would love a western embargo on agricultural goods. That would bring them back to the glory days of the Soviet Union when they had a guaranteed market for their goods. Or at least that what my Kyrgyz friends told me.
 
2014-03-01 10:43:26 PM  
Why does it seem everyone is assuming this will end with Russia fully annexing the area. Doesn't that seem like a leap?
 
2014-03-01 10:44:49 PM  

tinyarena: So Russia invades a majority Russian suburb of Russia. I hope all the Russians in Crimea are okay with seeing Russians. Of course some of them are probably related. Oh how are we going to liberate the Russian citizens from the Russian invasion?

/ it's a puzzlement


Neville Chamberlain might have asked the same question regarding saving German Sudetans from German annexation. All this time I was told that was wrong. Is it no longer? Are we now changing the judgment of history to, "You know, some of these invasions are really ok."
 
2014-03-01 10:45:07 PM  

dumbobruni: uber humper: bdub77: tinfoil-hat maggie: bdub77: The US does have retaliatory capability without going full retard. Sanctions w/European allies. The missile shield in Poland. Actions related to Syria. Maybe just threaten to send the Finnish hockey team to Moscow.

However I do think it's completely overblown. I think the US response has been pretty good so far, diplomatic in recognizing Russia's ties w/Ukraine while also making sure that if a war or violence breaks out between Russia and Ukraine, there will be consequences.

See that a reasonable response but the American media and war machine want this to be cold war 2.0 and the crazies want hot war 1.03.

Although I don't know how much Russia needs or grain and such anymore but an embargo on that kills the Ukrainian autonomy if it's like it used to be.

Russia needs trade w/Europe and the US as well as the former Soviet Bloc countries. Would it kill them to be hit by sanctions? No, we aren't talking North Korea 2.0. But it would deeply hurt them economically. Not to mention the kinds of stuff the US and Europe could do with monies many of its Russian nationals have invested in the West. Obviously it would hurt us too, but not nearly as much.

Putin's popularity is barely hovering over 50% within his own country. Starting a war and at the same time subjecting his country to economic harm is a huge deterrent to him. He knows this.

Will Ukraine cede Crimea to Russia? Will the Ukraine split? That's the big question. It's pretty obvious that the populace is split and Russia invading Ukraine at some point will cause war and no one wants to see that. Both the US and Russia have enough problems with terrorist organizations and Syria to really want another conflict.

In other words, Putin talks a big game and walks some fine lines, but he's no idiot.

Russian petroleum account for about 12-15% of world production.  By contrast Iran accounts for about 5%

Russia doesn't export much else besides weapons.  And China would bu ...


Oil is a worldwide market.  Even with sanctions, it's bought somewhere and affects the price world wide.  I don't totally disagree, but Russia ranks pretty low on any globalization comparison.  Their largest trading parter is like The Netherlands, or something.

They'd feel sanctions, but not as much as other countries.
 
2014-03-01 10:45:22 PM  

SurelyShirley: Mentat: vygramul: So Neville Chamberlain is considered to have made a huge mistake to let Germany annex the part of Czechoslovakia that was mostly German. But the right move here is to let Russia annex the part of Ukraine that is mostly Russian?

What an odd system of logic.

What's your solution?

A couple dozen nukes in the Russian Hinterland to get their attention.


Proving once again, the only thing more dangerous than nuclear weapons are crazy idiots and their terrible ideas.
 
2014-03-01 10:45:25 PM  

SurelyShirley: Mentat: vygramul: So Neville Chamberlain is considered to have made a huge mistake to let Germany annex the part of Czechoslovakia that was mostly German. But the right move here is to let Russia annex the part of Ukraine that is mostly Russian?

What an odd system of logic.

What's your solution?

A couple dozen nukes in the Russian Hinterland to get their attention.


That's probably unadvisable.
 
2014-03-01 10:45:57 PM  

iq_in_binary: tinfoil-hat maggie: iq_in_binary: rohar: iq_in_binary: This time there's troops on the ground and ground forces are amassing at the border. The provisional government of Ukraine has already invoked the Budapest Memorandum and many parties within their government have actively been calling for accession to Nuclear Weapon State, and our failure to recognize sections 1, 2, 3, and 6 of the Budapest Memorandum gives them standing to do so.

I would suggest that last section is utter and complete bullshiat.  As of this point, we've acted incomplete accord with the Budapest Memorandum.  Suggesting we haven't is wishing it read something that it does not.

That said, Russia was a signatory as well.  In any multilateral treaty, when one party breaks the rules, the treaty is over.  Even if we were bound to act, a signatory breached it before we could.  We're off the hook and can make any decision we damned well please.

Then we have absolutely no leg to stand on telling non NWS states that they can't develop nuclear weapons. Nuclear Estonia! YAY!

We never did but we didn't let that stop us. The International Court has not appointed the US as Sheriff and many debate it's standing.

The International Court only has teeth when everybody respects it. If the NPT goes up in smoke, so does the UN. No UN? No ICJ.

That's not what we want to happen. That's now what anybody wants to happen, including Russia.


I just don't believe Russia will go too far on this. They've secured the interest and well I would be surprised if they did further move without cause.
You do seem worried about the NPT but well, 20 years of the US attacking countries without nukes ended that more than anything Russia could do in the present. It's not that I don't feel for those Cossack Uke bastards but this isn't our fight What would you say if Poland annexed Lviv? It was part of Poland at one time. These problems are rampant throughout eastern Europe and the US Americans were stupid for trying to bring old Tsarists Muscovite control into the west and/or NATO.
 
2014-03-01 10:46:02 PM  

TheWhoppah: Some of you need to take off your RedWhiteAndBlue blinders and figure out how to unfark yourselves.

Unrest in Ukraine has forced the legitimate government into hiding.  Amid the chaos, Russian interests were threatened by the extremists that have taken over Kiev.  Russia moves in to protect their legitimate historical interest in the region.   Russia doesn't even see this as an invasion... more of a peacekeeping exercise.


Kind of like Germany's historical interest in Alsace.
 
2014-03-01 10:46:39 PM  

DamnYankees: Why does it seem everyone is assuming this will end with Russia fully annexing the area. Doesn't that seem like a leap?


Not if you listen to what the Russian protesters in the Crimean are saying.
 
2014-03-01 10:47:18 PM  
Anyone read Tom Clancy's last book "Command Authority?".... It's basically this situation. Funny.
 
2014-03-01 10:47:42 PM  

God-is-a-Taco: IronTom:

A-10 Warthog?  We are cancelling them all and getting rid of them so EBT users can have more lobster.

Ignoring the jab at social services, does the A-10 still serve a purpose today? Legitimate question, I have no idea.


It's surprisingly affordable for its effectiveness compared to more "advanced" weapons.

Bang for buck etc.
 
2014-03-01 10:48:27 PM  

oxnard_montalvo: Place your napkins on the table

[i.telegraph.co.uk image 620x387]
vs
[www.sargento.com image 525x350]

Winner takes all!!


Ok. Now stop that. They're being serious here.
 
2014-03-01 10:49:21 PM  

xanadian: It will end just fine as long as Russia doesn't push too far north.

Geesh.  It's not like Crimea are full of ethnic Russians or something....


Yep, the Russians don't want the Ukraine they want it on their side and not NATO's but don't wanna do the administration bit.
 
2014-03-01 10:50:21 PM  

tinfoil-hat maggie: iq_in_binary: tinfoil-hat maggie: iq_in_binary: rohar: iq_in_binary: This time there's troops on the ground and ground forces are amassing at the border. The provisional government of Ukraine has already invoked the Budapest Memorandum and many parties within their government have actively been calling for accession to Nuclear Weapon State, and our failure to recognize sections 1, 2, 3, and 6 of the Budapest Memorandum gives them standing to do so.

I would suggest that last section is utter and complete bullshiat.  As of this point, we've acted incomplete accord with the Budapest Memorandum.  Suggesting we haven't is wishing it read something that it does not.

That said, Russia was a signatory as well.  In any multilateral treaty, when one party breaks the rules, the treaty is over.  Even if we were bound to act, a signatory breached it before we could.  We're off the hook and can make any decision we damned well please.

Then we have absolutely no leg to stand on telling non NWS states that they can't develop nuclear weapons. Nuclear Estonia! YAY!

We never did but we didn't let that stop us. The International Court has not appointed the US as Sheriff and many debate it's standing.

The International Court only has teeth when everybody respects it. If the NPT goes up in smoke, so does the UN. No UN? No ICJ.

That's not what we want to happen. That's now what anybody wants to happen, including Russia.

I just don't believe Russia will go too far on this. They've secured the interest and well I would be surprised if they did further move without cause.
You do seem worried about the NPT but well, 20 years of the US attacking countries without nukes ended that more than anything Russia could do in the present. It's not that I don't feel for those Cossack Uke bastards but this isn't our fight What would you say if Poland annexed Lviv? It was part of Poland at one time. These problems are rampant throughout eastern Europe and the US Americans were stupid for trying to ...


Speaking of Cossacks, you see this one putting a whip to Pussy Riot members? F'n ridiculous. But my god, doesn't this look like the set of a 60s variety show:

static.guim.co.uk
 
2014-03-01 10:57:45 PM  

Hobodeluxe: ksdanj: ManateeGag: Nabb1: I guess the speech didn't work.

What, exactly, do you want the US to do about it?

Yes, please elaborate Nabb1...

I'm going to guess he wants exactly the opposite of whatever Obama does.

they're reactionary. they don't take positions before Obama does.


That's just patently false!

They also take positions that are so extraordinarily abhorrent and objectionable that no sane person would agree. Like rape rape.
 
2014-03-01 11:04:40 PM  

TheWhoppah: Some of you need to take off your RedWhiteAndBlue blinders and figure out how to unfark yourselves.

Unrest in Ukraine has forced the legitimate government into hiding.  Amid the chaos, Russian interests were threatened by the extremists that have taken over Kiev.  Russia moves in to protect their legitimate historical interest in the region.   Russia doesn't even see this as an invasion... more of a peacekeeping exercise.


The legitimate government.  You mean the president that the Ukrainian Parliament voted to remove from power?  The one that was violently repressing the protestors (including using snipers to just randomly pick off people)?

And whether or not Russian sees it as an invasion, it is one.  This is not a peacekeeping mission.  If it was, they'd have gone through the UN just like we did.

It wouldn't have been hard at this point.  Putin could have even looked like a big diplomatic hero.

This is an opportunistic invasion.  It doesn't matter how many of the people in Crimea are Russian speaking (you know, after the whole purges during the Soviet Era of non-Russian speakers).  It's part of the Ukraine now.

Sadly, there's not a lot of unity in the West to make any sort of deterrent to Russia doing things like this.
 
2014-03-01 11:04:41 PM  

Mentat: vygramul: So Neville Chamberlain is considered to have made a huge mistake to let Germany annex the part of Czechoslovakia that was mostly German. But the right move here is to let Russia annex the part of Ukraine that is mostly Russian?

What an odd system of logic.

What's your solution?


This is curious, why do people wanna equate Putin-Russia, with Germany-Hitler. Wow the uneducated mouth breathers get a voice ,well, Even the PNAC crew new Russia would be back on it's feet in 10-15 years from the collapse of the USSR. Well US america got to run rampage where and when they wanted but the time is up on that. Russia is standing up for itself again and IMHO you should read about past Tsars since that seems where this is going.
 
2014-03-01 11:06:18 PM  

LavenderWolf: Hobodeluxe: ksdanj: ManateeGag: Nabb1: I guess the speech didn't work.

What, exactly, do you want the US to do about it?

Yes, please elaborate Nabb1...

I'm going to guess he wants exactly the opposite of whatever Obama does.

they're reactionary. they don't take positions before Obama does.

That's just patently false!

They also take positions that are so extraordinarily abhorrent and objectionable that no sane person would agree. Like rape rape.


Lulz ; )
 
2014-03-01 11:06:33 PM  

LavenderWolf: Hobodeluxe: ksdanj: ManateeGag: Nabb1: I guess the speech didn't work.

What, exactly, do you want the US to do about it?

Yes, please elaborate Nabb1...

I'm going to guess he wants exactly the opposite of whatever Obama does.

they're reactionary. they don't take positions before Obama does.

That's just patently false!

They also take positions that are so extraordinarily abhorrent and objectionable that no sane person would agree. Like rape rape.


Ha, ha, ha - you said rape a couple of times.

That just shouts "Fark funny person" because rape is the second funniest thing on this web site next to down syndrome children.

You sir, are cutting edge hilarious.
 
2014-03-01 11:06:43 PM  

Adolf Oliver Nipples: We need to stay as far away from this as possible. Let Russia and the Ukraine have it out, keep it from spreading, and do nothing else. This is straight from the Bad Old Days, and I for one don't really want to get nuked. Except for Philadelphia, they're fair game.


img.fark.net
 
2014-03-01 11:07:07 PM  

uber humper: Oil is a worldwide market.  Even with sanctions, it's bought somewhere and affects the price world wide.  I don't totally disagree, but Russia ranks pretty low on any globalization comparison.  Their largest trading parter is like The Netherlands, or something.

They'd feel sanctions, but not as much as other countries.


the oil industry makes up 20% of Russia's economy, and  50% of Russia's government budget.

sanctions would also damage Russians' health, as 75% of their pharmaceuticals are imported (nearly all from the EU).
 
2014-03-01 11:08:51 PM  

tinfoil-hat maggie: Mentat: vygramul: So Neville Chamberlain is considered to have made a huge mistake to let Germany annex the part of Czechoslovakia that was mostly German. But the right move here is to let Russia annex the part of Ukraine that is mostly Russian?

What an odd system of logic.

What's your solution?

This is curious, why do people wanna equate Putin-Russia, with Germany-Hitler. Wow the uneducated mouth breathers get a voice ,well, Even the PNAC crew new Russia would be back on it's feet in 10-15 years from the collapse of the USSR. Well US america got to run rampage where and when they wanted but the time is up on that. Russia is standing up for itself again and IMHO you should read about past Tsars since that seems where this is going.


I'm sorry, Maggie, I love you but,

24.media.tumblr.com31.media.tumblr.com25.media.tumblr.com
I want to equate it, in this narrow case, because Germany lost, against its will, large parts of its territory dominated by Germans, and when it wanted them back, history looks back on it and says they were farktards for forcing it. I don't see why Russia, which has hardly been innocent, gets a pass on this issue.
 
2014-03-01 11:10:18 PM  

LograyX: TheWhoppah: Some of you need to take off your RedWhiteAndBlue blinders and figure out how to unfark yourselves.

Unrest in Ukraine has forced the legitimate government into hiding.  Amid the chaos, Russian interests were threatened by the extremists that have taken over Kiev.  Russia moves in to protect their legitimate historical interest in the region.   Russia doesn't even see this as an invasion... more of a peacekeeping exercise.

The legitimate government.  You mean the president that the Ukrainian Parliament voted to remove from power?  The one that was violently repressing the protestors (including using snipers to just randomly pick off people)?

And whether or not Russian sees it as an invasion, it is one.  This is not a peacekeeping mission.  If it was, they'd have gone through the UN just like we did.

It wouldn't have been hard at this point.  Putin could have even looked like a big diplomatic hero.

This is an opportunistic invasion.  It doesn't matter how many of the people in Crimea are Russian speaking (you know, after the whole purges during the Soviet Era of non-Russian speakers).  It's part of the Ukraine now.

Sadly, there's not a lot of unity in the West to make any sort of deterrent to Russia doing things like this.


Your panties seem wadded. When was the first time you heard about the Ukraine?
 
2014-03-01 11:10:53 PM  

Agent Nick Fury: LavenderWolf: Hobodeluxe: ksdanj: ManateeGag: Nabb1: I guess the speech didn't work.

What, exactly, do you want the US to do about it?

Yes, please elaborate Nabb1...

I'm going to guess he wants exactly the opposite of whatever Obama does.

they're reactionary. they don't take positions before Obama does.

That's just patently false!

They also take positions that are so extraordinarily abhorrent and objectionable that no sane person would agree. Like rape rape.

Ha, ha, ha - you said rape a couple of times.

That just shouts "Fark funny person" because rape is the second funniest thing on this web site next to down syndrome children.

You sir, are cutting edge hilarious.


Funny or not, it's factually accurate.
 
2014-03-01 11:11:01 PM  

LograyX: TheWhoppah: Some of you need to take off your RedWhiteAndBlue blinders and figure out how to unfark yourselves.

Unrest in Ukraine has forced the legitimate government into hiding.  Amid the chaos, Russian interests were threatened by the extremists that have taken over Kiev.  Russia moves in to protect their legitimate historical interest in the region.   Russia doesn't even see this as an invasion... more of a peacekeeping exercise.

The legitimate government.  You mean the president that the Ukrainian Parliament voted to remove from power?  The one that was violently repressing the protestors (including using snipers to just randomly pick off people)?


Really?

After Obama backed down on Syria the media suddenly found that it wasn't Assad that used chemical weapons but the rebels themselves and Obama made a wise decision.

Now did they some how just find this fact out after Obama backed down or was the media misleading us on purpose?
 
2014-03-01 11:12:52 PM  

dumbobruni: uber humper: Oil is a worldwide market.  Even with sanctions, it's bought somewhere and affects the price world wide.  I don't totally disagree, but Russia ranks pretty low on any globalization comparison.  Their largest trading parter is like The Netherlands, or something.

They'd feel sanctions, but not as much as other countries.

the oil industry makes up 20% of Russia's economy, and  50% of Russia's government budget.

sanctions would also damage Russians' health, as 75% of their pharmaceuticals are imported (nearly all from the EU).


Russia meets it's budget with $60 oil. Oil is around $100. Not very many countries would put sanctions against. If Russia offered just a little cheaper than $100, there would be buyers.

Yes, Russia does need imports.  But not as much as other countries.
 
2014-03-01 11:12:52 PM  

LavenderWolf: Agent Nick Fury: LavenderWolf: Hobodeluxe: ksdanj: ManateeGag: Nabb1: I guess the speech didn't work.

What, exactly, do you want the US to do about it?

Yes, please elaborate Nabb1...

I'm going to guess he wants exactly the opposite of whatever Obama does.

they're reactionary. they don't take positions before Obama does.

That's just patently false!

They also take positions that are so extraordinarily abhorrent and objectionable that no sane person would agree. Like rape rape.

Ha, ha, ha - you said rape a couple of times.

That just shouts "Fark funny person" because rape is the second funniest thing on this web site next to down syndrome children.

You sir, are cutting edge hilarious.

Funny or not, it's factually accurate.


Of course it is.
 
2014-03-01 11:14:33 PM  

Agent Nick Fury: LograyX: TheWhoppah: Some of you need to take off your RedWhiteAndBlue blinders and figure out how to unfark yourselves.

Unrest in Ukraine has forced the legitimate government into hiding.  Amid the chaos, Russian interests were threatened by the extremists that have taken over Kiev.  Russia moves in to protect their legitimate historical interest in the region.   Russia doesn't even see this as an invasion... more of a peacekeeping exercise.

The legitimate government.  You mean the president that the Ukrainian Parliament voted to remove from power?  The one that was violently repressing the protestors (including using snipers to just randomly pick off people)?

Really?

After Obama backed down on Syria the media suddenly found that it wasn't Assad that used chemical weapons but the rebels themselves and Obama made a wise decision.

Now did they some how just find this fact out after Obama backed down or was the media misleading us on purpose?


whatthefarkamireading.jpg
 
2014-03-01 11:15:31 PM  

Agent Nick Fury: LavenderWolf: Agent Nick Fury: LavenderWolf: Hobodeluxe: ksdanj: ManateeGag: Nabb1: I guess the speech didn't work.

What, exactly, do you want the US to do about it?

Yes, please elaborate Nabb1...

I'm going to guess he wants exactly the opposite of whatever Obama does.

they're reactionary. they don't take positions before Obama does.

That's just patently false!

They also take positions that are so extraordinarily abhorrent and objectionable that no sane person would agree. Like rape rape.

Ha, ha, ha - you said rape a couple of times.

That just shouts "Fark funny person" because rape is the second funniest thing on this web site next to down syndrome children.

You sir, are cutting edge hilarious.

Funny or not, it's factually accurate.

Of course it is.


Can you name a position taken by Republicans/Teabaggers that isn't reactionary or entirely abhorrent?
 
2014-03-01 11:16:04 PM  

tinfoil-hat maggie: Mentat: vygramul: So Neville Chamberlain is considered to have made a huge mistake to let Germany annex the part of Czechoslovakia that was mostly German. But the right move here is to let Russia annex the part of Ukraine that is mostly Russian?

What an odd system of logic.

What's your solution?

This is curious, why do people wanna equate Putin-Russia, with Germany-Hitler. Wow the uneducated mouth breathers get a voice ,well, Even the PNAC crew new Russia would be back on it's feet in 10-15 years from the collapse of the USSR. Well US america got to run rampage where and when they wanted but the time is up on that. Russia is standing up for itself again and IMHO you should read about past Tsars since that seems where this is going.


English, you should learn it.  Papers please?

Beyond that, your premise is flawed.  Russia is no more a power today than it was 10 years ago.  Honestly, it's been slipping further and further into third world shiat hole status since the Soviet Union dissolved and even that wasn't great shakes.  If it wasn't for those pesky nukes, they'd be at terrible risk of occupation themselves.  Many nations have much stronger militaries.  Almost all modern nations have much stronger and more diversified economies.
 
2014-03-01 11:16:23 PM  

uber humper: dumbobruni: uber humper: Oil is a worldwide market.  Even with sanctions, it's bought somewhere and affects the price world wide.  I don't totally disagree, but Russia ranks pretty low on any globalization comparison.  Their largest trading parter is like The Netherlands, or something.

They'd feel sanctions, but not as much as other countries.

the oil industry makes up 20% of Russia's economy, and  50% of Russia's government budget.

sanctions would also damage Russians' health, as 75% of their pharmaceuticals are imported (nearly all from the EU).

Russia meets it's budget with $60 oil. Oil is around $100. Not very many countries would put sanctions against. If Russia offered just a little cheaper than $100, there would be buyers.

Yes, Russia does need imports.  But not as much as other countries.


Correcting myself:  Looks like breakeven is close to $117

~
 
2014-03-01 11:17:04 PM  

LavenderWolf: Agent Nick Fury: LograyX: TheWhoppah: Some of you need to take off your RedWhiteAndBlue blinders and figure out how to unfark yourselves.

Unrest in Ukraine has forced the legitimate government into hiding.  Amid the chaos, Russian interests were threatened by the extremists that have taken over Kiev.  Russia moves in to protect their legitimate historical interest in the region.   Russia doesn't even see this as an invasion... more of a peacekeeping exercise.

The legitimate government.  You mean the president that the Ukrainian Parliament voted to remove from power?  The one that was violently repressing the protestors (including using snipers to just randomly pick off people)?

Really?

After Obama backed down on Syria the media suddenly found that it wasn't Assad that used chemical weapons but the rebels themselves and Obama made a wise decision.

Now did they some how just find this fact out after Obama backed down or was the media misleading us on purpose?

whatthefarkamireading.jpg


News, reality, non-internet bullshiat, your mother's diary?

How do you expect us to know?
 
2014-03-01 11:18:11 PM  
 
2014-03-01 11:18:40 PM  

rohar: tinfoil-hat maggie: Mentat: vygramul: So Neville Chamberlain is considered to have made a huge mistake to let Germany annex the part of Czechoslovakia that was mostly German. But the right move here is to let Russia annex the part of Ukraine that is mostly Russian?

What an odd system of logic.

What's your solution?

This is curious, why do people wanna equate Putin-Russia, with Germany-Hitler. Wow the uneducated mouth breathers get a voice ,well, Even the PNAC crew new Russia would be back on it's feet in 10-15 years from the collapse of the USSR. Well US america got to run rampage where and when they wanted but the time is up on that. Russia is standing up for itself again and IMHO you should read about past Tsars since that seems where this is going.

English, you should learn it.  Papers please?

Beyond that, your premise is flawed.  Russia is no more a power today than it was 10 years ago.  Honestly, it's been slipping further and further into third world shiat hole status since the Soviet Union dissolved and even that wasn't great shakes.  If it wasn't for those pesky nukes, they'd be at terrible risk of occupation themselves.  Many nations have much stronger militaries.  Almost all modern nations have much stronger and more diversified economies.


Their sub-surface fleet is world-class, though. The surface navy doesn't like going far without an ocean-going tug accompanying them. But they got their shiat together under the waves.
 
2014-03-01 11:19:19 PM  

rohar: tinfoil-hat maggie: Mentat: vygramul: So Neville Chamberlain is considered to have made a huge mistake to let Germany annex the part of Czechoslovakia that was mostly German. But the right move here is to let Russia annex the part of Ukraine that is mostly Russian?

What an odd system of logic.

What's your solution?

This is curious, why do people wanna equate Putin-Russia, with Germany-Hitler. Wow the uneducated mouth breathers get a voice ,well, Even the PNAC crew new Russia would be back on it's feet in 10-15 years from the collapse of the USSR. Well US america got to run rampage where and when they wanted but the time is up on that. Russia is standing up for itself again and IMHO you should read about past Tsars since that seems where this is going.

English, you should learn it.  Papers please?

Beyond that, your premise is flawed.  Russia is no more a power today than it was 10 years ago.  Honestly, it's been slipping further and further into third world shiat hole status since the Soviet Union dissolved and even that wasn't great shakes.  If it wasn't for those pesky nukes, they'd be at terrible risk of occupation themselves.  Many nations have much stronger militaries.  Almost all modern nations have much stronger and more diversified economies.


I agree with you.  But what Russia has right now is cutzpah.  So it seems like they are going to see how far they can push it.  They need the Russians they lost when the USSR broke apart.

They are a developing country, nothing like the econ of the US.  But they are playing the hand they have.
 
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